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Why are all games developed for gankers or PVE'ers
Brainy
Member EpicPosts: 2,162
I dont understand why all the games cater to either gankers or PVE'ers?
Let me stereotype Gankers
1) Estimate around 5% of the MMO population
2) Immature
3) Antisocial
4) Gets thier kicks off by making the game unplayable for everyone else.
5) Hackers, exploiters, radar users, unathorized third party program users.
6) Scammers
7) Majority are vocal forum posters and whiners
8) Unloyal game hoppers
9) Never like any game, yet want all the games they go to, to have a chaotic ganker part to it.
10) Have been temp banned by a game at least once if not more, for some reason or another.
Let me sterotype PVE'er
1) Estimate around 35% of MMO population
2) Loves games where they can gain equality through levels and gear instead of skill
3) Doesnt want PVP to ever effect them.
4) Forum readers but not posters
5) Mostly pick human characters, or human like characters, "pretty" characters
So where are the games for the other 60% of us? Why cant they just eliminate gankers all together as they just ruin the entire game. But yet still dont cater entirely to PVE'ers and have decent PVP.
Only games I am really familiar with are UO, DAOC, WOW, all of which have had ganker issues. All of which went overboard catering to PVE. UO is a great template for a game yet is just outdated, and needs to add more incentives to PVP side. Daoc was good until thier character imbalances and poor expansion decisions just completely ruined it.
From what I read AO SB and SWG both have had serious ganker/exploiter issues.
I just dont understand why a good PVP game cant be made with extreme concequences to gankers, or eliminate it all together.
Comments
ARKs deal with gankers/exploiters as fast as they can find them, we dont see many of them at all in AO. I'm not sure where you got that one, although its definately true about Shadowbane.
But in any case, its a matter of perception. PvEers would, naturally, rather not have to deal with gankers at all, so would most of the people sort of in between.
As of right now, "true" PVP is constantly regarded with in the same exact context that gankers give it, thus, PvP in its entirety is something for PVEers to avoid. The simplest way is to migrate to a game that doesnt have any pvp at all, or at least very little of it.
When combined with the people in between, but dont want to be ganked either, the majority of MMORPGers want a game without PVP. Naturally, developers oblige.
Incidently, Age of Conan has an interesting Bounty Hunter system that just might provide the "incentive" for gankers to keep to themselves, although only time will tell on that one.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Ya i meant AC not AO, thanks for the correction.
When combined with the people in between, but dont want to be ganked either, the majority of MMORPGers want a game without PVP. Naturally, developers oblige.
I dont agree with a majority not wanting PVP. In wow the PVP servers were the most popular and the majority. In addition to that I had some friends that left DAOC to PVE servers yet still wanted PVP but just wanted it in a battlegrounds / concentual context. That makes a serious majority wanting PVP option IMO.
You under-estimate the PvE population.
35% is about the amount of PvE-groupers, such as me. PvE-groupers are unlikely to post, but some does.
You didn't include the PvE-soloers, which are a very huge % of the MMO-fans...close to the amount of groupers. These players will nearly never post, they will go solo something else rather than post.
The PvE-raiders, which are even less numerous than the gankers...
Tradeskillers are definitely an amount of peoples...
Doesn't leave much room for "other PvP", which is prolly about 15% to 20%. Most players aren't much looking in high priority for PvP in MMOs, since MMOs are about earning levels, which by definition is replacing skill. Levels and skills are doing the same thing, differenciating the players in what they can do. Having levels in a PvP system isn't a great idea if you are looking for a skill game...and MMOs, they attract peoples who love to see their characters progress, skills remove this clear progression. See, gaining 10 hp/level is something that is very palpable, you notice the difference.
I am looking forward a game where PvP will take no account of players levels, and will happen in some PvP zones that I will just avoid, yet that some peoples would love. Levels are meant for PvE.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
i agree...their really hasnt been a good pvp based mmo since daoc imo..
I wish pvp was more grouped/large scale based...1v1 and such are just mind numbing for me..theirs no excitment and no tactics involved in most games*and 1v1*, just whoever has the better gear/spec/level and whatnot...
Also for me, their needs to be a reason for pvping, and more than just titles/ranks/speacial specs and such..those are nice but again boring, keep sieges/zone wide control and stuff keeps it interesting, and it feels like your really playing a part in the game.
my cup of tea anyways..
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
If you don't have fun with games because you suck and can't PvP, than don't play them.
--
Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
I wonder too why they carter to gankers ... they only bring the game down.
But i think most of teenagers are gankers, and they are the largest customer base.
As for Pve , i dont know what would a mmo be without pve ... boring perhaps ?
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
Well to me the information shows that way way more then 15% want to PvP.
I will use WoW as my basis since I would say with 7mil people it has a huge diversity of players. It certaintly doesnt slant to pvpers because it was released to be a pve game. However, when WoW was released 2/3rds of the servers were PVP servers, on top of that the PVP servers were the servers that had the longest wait times and were showing high population. With that info alone it shows that somewere between 66% to 80% of the players agreed to a PVP ruleset. In addition to that, at least 30% of the PVE servers PVP casually in battlegrounds? Which tells me that the majority of the population wants PVP, I believe most of which want concentual PVP at thier convenience, much like Daoc or UO post trammel patch.
I also agree with the previous post that a majority of people want some form of decent PVE.
Neither of these groups of people want gankers, and gankers are not needed to keep the community. So why are they games not completely eliminating ganking in any form?
Even WoW has ganking, less so now then before battlegrounds release. People would just sit in the lowbie zones ganking newbs all day long. Then mount up and run to base if anyone thier level came along. Or stealth ....
Gankers are the scourge of these games, they need to be purged IMO
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
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Originally posted by Agricola1
When you say "gank" do you mean to "gang kill" or do you mean to ambush lower level players while you are solo or in a gang yourself?
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All of the above.
Gankers to me are people who do the following:
Kill players while they are PVEing, especially when they have almost no life and are engaged in a mob.
A) Kill much lower level players with almost no risk to themselves.
C) Players that consistently bring 3v1 or more to battles, again no risk
D) Players that make an effort to go to zones and areas where there are crafters/miners/lumberers or any other skill user that basically cannot defend themselves.
E) Players that scam people into portals or lure newbs places to kill them.
Im probably missing a few but you get the idea. Im not talking about just stumbling on a miner and killing them, or stumbling onto one of the above and killing them. If someone plays a character that basically kills anyone that crosses thier path, to me thats fine. Im talking about players actively seeking people incapable of fighting back for the sole reason that they are an extremely easy kill. Usually these targets are not even worth any pvp rewards, and the gankers do it just to ruin the others players gameplay.
You should try it on the PC
I understand what you're saying, it sounds like "griefer" fits the meaning better than "ganker".
I play EVE and must admit to ganking players on a regular basis. The trouble in EVE is often I have a split second as to make a decision, you don't have a convenient "level 20" sign over anyones ship. Yes, I have ganked many new players with my fellow alliance mates and yes I did find it fun. You see I don't see anything wrong with ganking or say ambushing a low level player with overwhelming force. For me it's all part of the game and it's something a good player learns to avoid, wether you like PvP or not.
If players in EVE did have a lvl sign over their ships would I leave the low level ones alone? Certainly not! New players provide that much sought after hate mail far more often than older players that've learnt to live with it. Besides most of the big MMOs provide either areas for pvp or areas for non-pvp or a balance of both, so I don't really see an excuse to whine about it.
I consider myself a PvPer, with perhaps a little ganker and griefer thrown in to spice it up
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
competing against a player on same terms lvl/equipment is pure fun.
But thats the problem with mmo pvp in generell only time pvp is on mostly same terms is in the endgame and having to suffer from gankers up to endgame that does it of pure joy makes it boring to play pvp in a mmo.
And thats what creates the bullies system in a mmo.
mp game is another story same terms only its the skill that makes the diffrence.
Btw play both pvp and pve
-Semper ubi sub ubi!
always wear underwear
While I agree that the majority don't want open PvP, there's enough people that do to easily support a large scale game. In reference to your comment earlier about the bounty hunter system - I've seen it tried in a couple of games it just seems to be too easy to abuse. If anything people will just use it as a way to get rich quick - I'd rather not see it implimented.
What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?
I suck and can't PvP becuase I'm not intrested in learning. I prefer proper balanced games for PvP, FPS and RTS games normally. This isn't the kind of fun I am looking for in an RPG game. I own other software for this kind of entertainment and like it better.
I don't especially like the online PvP crowd, most of them are very nice, but the proportion of tossers is much higher and I can't be bothered to go out of my way to meet these people.
I like games that have a good amount of something for everyone. PvP and PvE so that those of my friends who enjoy it are still intrested in playing the same game as me. Never really had much experience of Gankers outside of Diablo 2 in Hardcore mode. They have them alot in EVE but they've never bothered me.
.
I enjoyed Planetside, that MMO had excellent PvP. Really worth it.
It's pretty simple to avoid gankers in most games, for instance in EVE if you stay in an NPC corp and out of low security space you'll be 99% safe.
I enjoy ganking and it's part of a good MMORPG for me. I remember my early days in SWG standing in a cantina in Mos Eisley, some guy comes up to me and emotes spitting on me and kicking me in the balls. I request a duel and he refuses, I'm not a 100% RPer but I found it pretty damn gay that I couldn't just beat the crap out of him there and then without having to ask for his permission first! That wasn't even a gank just 1v1 PvP I was asking for, so that system leaves it open for people to grief in another method.
Whatever the mechanics a dedicated griefer will find a way to abuse them to crap on you. The only problem with ganking is that someone has to be the unwilling victim, and many MMORPG players aren't adult enough to deal with getting their butt kicked in a game.
Being a ganker is fun, but I've been ganked more times than you've had hot dinners. I learnt to deal with it, how you ask?
REVENGE MUAH HAH HAH
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Anyways, PvP is a tricky one. The fact is you really can't have PvP without "gankers".
However, i'll just say this. PvP and PvE crowds really shouldn't mix in a game. It should either be all PvE or all PvP (or split servers).
I
suck and can't PvP becuase I'm not intrested in learning. I prefer
proper balanced games for PvP, FPS and RTS games normally. This isn't
the kind of fun I am looking for in an RPG game. I own other software
for this kind of entertainment and like it better.
I
don't especially like the online PvP crowd, most of them are very nice,
but the proportion of tossers is much higher and I can't be
bothered to go out of my way to meet these people.
I
like games that have a good amount of something for everyone. PvP and
PvE so that those of my friends who enjoy it are still intrested in
playing the same game as me. Never really had much experience of
Gankers outside of Diablo 2 in Hardcore mode. They have them alot in
EVE but they've never bothered me.
.
I enjoyed Planetside, that MMO had excellent PvP. Really worth it.
What do you mean by "proper balanced games for PvP"?
It is a simple fact for mmorpgs; some people are skilled at them and
some people aren't. You can't control how good someone gets.
Baff, i'm not trying to bash you but have you played any game besides
WoW? Most games have a great PvP community, except WoW, GW,
Runescape...ect.
I simply hate ganking.
It infuriates me so much , that if the unfortunate ganker would live next door to me - I would break into his home and beat him senselles.
That is how i feel about ganking.
It is simply me. I cannot stand to be put into situation where there is no alternatives.
And gankers do that.
I would like to show them that there is an alternative - facing their monitor crushing in their face...
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas