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Vanguard vs. WoW?

omg_wtf_lol0omg_wtf_lol0 Member Posts: 6
in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Heh, I bet this has been made before, but I gotta know. WoW is one of the most popular games out there now. Will Vanguard be able to compete with it?

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Comments

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    "Compete" as in amount of subscribtions?

     

    That is...doubtful...for ANY game.  Yet, it isn't impossible.

     

    I am more thinking that Vanguard will have about 50k subscribers...or 500k if they get over their ego and make the raid-free servers.  But well, that is just how I feel about it.

     

    I could be wrong.  Also, once the peoples play it...if they enjoy it, it could draw a lot more folks in the months following...so in the event of a raid-free servers, a 500k after 6 months COULD developp in millions of players if these 500k players are very happy about the game and the various features it has (doubtful, Brad is an enforcer-type, which in turn make less nice emotion back toward him).  I doubt it, but...it COULD happen.

     

    But with raid-enforced on every server, it would be reduce to the MxO status in about a year or two.  And, I can't create the raid-free servers for them.  I can shout, pout, scream, dance, say it, repeat it, repeat it and so on.  But the Sigil team is the only group of folks who can do that.  And post-release it wouldn't work as well...so it has to be done at release...even if they would have to delay the whole thing or have broken servers, as long as it is there at release...

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • BakgrindBakgrind Member UncommonPosts: 423
    Very doubtful that it will be able to go head to head with WOW. But I can see it surpassing EQ2 in the long run though since  Vanguard is  basicly EQ3.
  • omg_wtf_lol0omg_wtf_lol0 Member Posts: 6

    I might get flamed for this, but I'll ask because I don't know.

     

    What do you mean by "raid-free"? Does that compare to the raiding in WoW..? Because even then, I still won't have a clear definition of it. I only got to lv52 on WoW before quitting (no raiding for me.)

    ______________________________
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  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433


    Originally posted by omg_wtf_lol0

    I might get flamed for this, but I'll ask because I don't know.
     
    What do you mean by "raid-free"? Does that compare to the raiding in WoW..? Because even then, I still won't have a clear definition of it. I only got to lv52 on WoW before quitting (no raiding for me.)


    Nah, raid-free is a LOT more simple than that.

     

    Take all rewards you give in raids.  Put them on merchants or other non-raiding ways that are unquestionnably easier and faster than raiding (you may twist conventional non-raid endgame rewards a little harder).  This way, you have a raid-free server, where nobody has to raid.  Since it doesn't affect other servers, everyone is able to play on the setting that please them, be it "easier" or "harder".

     

    WoW is definitely not "raid-free".  Raid-free means that you have no reasons to raid as far as grouping/soloing goes.  Best soloers doesn't have to raid.  Best groupers doesn't have to raid.  That is raid-free servers.

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • QSatuQSatu Member UncommonPosts: 1,796
    No. And for many years we won't see mmo with such high number of subscribers simply b/c the quality of a game doesn't matter when it comes to numbers. You need big fan base (veeeery big) before you release a game + commercials + availability (you can buy WoW in EVERY shop here in Poland. WoW and GW are the only mmos which you can buy in most shops. Other mmos I have to look up in online stores. Add to that the game cards, not many ppl have credit cards) and then you can try to have 1+ mil of subscribers.


  • ThedaneThedane Member Posts: 8

    I think game content wise this game here will exceed way beyond WoW.

    World of warcraft is basic gaming skill on nearly every aspect.

     

    thats my 2 cent.

     

    Everquest lvl 60 wizard

    EvE

    Starwars galaxies old version Master Doctor

    WoW lvl 60 paladin lvl 60 priest.

  • WarspineWarspine Member Posts: 105
    Maybe not in numbers. . .


    but in my eyes, Wow is donkeykong and Vanguard is not.
    Vanguard looks alot better from my point of view. But i like the more realistic look, like daoc, eq etc.
    more then wow grafics.

    Im not saying wow is a bad game, becouse it's not. It's just that the vanguard grafic suits me better as a player.



  • mentalmonkeymentalmonkey Member Posts: 85

    i belive this game will far excede wow, but its simplicity(wow) works for numbers

    wow apeals to the new gamer/first time mmoer/ younger market because it is simple with the ability to exel but not be differnt,

    vanguard will be all about choice and exploration and ability to be who you want to be like swg was i think, and not about weather you have tier 4 raid gear and rank 12 pvp or whatever

    i am not flaming wow just saying thats my view on it,

    i highly doubt vanguard will be able to compete in numbers with wow but 500k players would be amazing and give the devs some reward for what i hope will be a brillaint game, and allow them to keep expanding it (for the better *cough* NGE *cough*

    realistically i do belive V:SOH will be able to compete with wows western subscriber base, but not Chinas as blizzard are massive their and doubt sigil will bother trying to conquer the eastern market (possibly excluding japan and S. Korea)

     

    just what i think am probably wrong, flame at will you dont know where I live : D

    image
    EQ2 player
    Ex - EVE Online addict
    played -
    SWG, EQ2, Vanguard, Planetside, Second Life, EVE-O and a few randoms

  • MX13MX13 Member Posts: 2,489
    I hope not. WoW is so big because it's so simple. It's friendly & fun for most players beginning thier MMO careers. VSoH is not a simple system MMO, and would have to be greatly simplified to be one.

    I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!

    In fact, forget the SWG!!!!

    image
    image
    image

  • VanguardeVanguarde Member Posts: 198
    People like Anofalye wants an easy mode mmorpg where you can get raid gears without any challenge. This game is geared toward Veteran players of EQ & EQ2. I expect it will do well with subscriptions, but not as much as subscriptions like Wow does. It will be successful, this game is not for everyone. As brad have said it, its designed for its "Core audience", Sigil wil never listen to the player like Anofalye. image
  • ThedaneThedane Member Posts: 8
    Vanguarde, i hope you are right about. So they dont listen to much to people that are whining. image
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311

    Originally posted by Anofalye

     

     
    I am more thinking that Vanguard will have about 50k subscribers...or 500k if they get over their ego and make the raid-free servers.  But well, that is just how I feel about it.
     
    I could be wrong. 

    i assure you, that you are wrong. think about what your saying (and put your hatred for raiding aside for just a moment) if that was the case and the success of vanguard...(and not just vanguard but all mmorpg's) depended so much on if there is raiding or not, then why is it the most successful mmo's to date all have raiding in them?

    if vanguard has only 50k subscribers it will have very little to do with having non raiding servers or not. even if there were non raiding servers people are not going to play a game that they don't enjoy.

    and even if there were no non raiding servers, people will indeed play a they enjoy regardless of that fact. we all know that you will not play a game that has raiding and there are people that agree with you, it has been well documented.

    but statements like this cannot be taken seriously, it has been proven dead wrong with the success that wow has had with raiding on every single server.

  • anarchyartanarchyart Member Posts: 5,378


    Originally posted by Vanguarde
    People like Anofalye wants an easy mode mmorpg where you can get raid gears without any challenge. This game is geared toward Veteran players of EQ & EQ2. I expect it will do well with subscriptions, but not as much as subscriptions like Wow does. It will be successful, this game is not for everyone. As brad have said it, its designed for its "Core audience", Sigil wil never listen to the player like Anofalye. image

    No, Buckwheat. It is being designed for the "Core Gamer". This means people who like to group mostly. Solo and raid will be secondary but will have their place. And Sigil listens to ALL gamers, that's what makes them Sigil.image

    image
  • VanguardeVanguarde Member Posts: 198
    Hey as far as i am concerned, i could careless what you think. Your logic is pointless Sigil will not change server ruleset nor will they cater to the likes of you.image 
  • mentalmonkeymentalmonkey Member Posts: 85

    to be honest i dont really care weather there are seperate rulesets for raiding, but you dont know mabey the loot for high end raids to to help bost raiding stats (only give you a significant edge in the raids themselves) as for people who do alot of raiding generally spend alot of time in raids (duh) where it woud be most usefull to them.

    remeber people this thread is about subscriber numbers if you do wish to discuss differnt ruleset server please make a differnt thread, and i dont think it will change the game a huge amount,(in terms of subsriber number definatly not by 1000% as was stated earlier (50k-500k)

    im not hugelg experienced on raiding as im a swg refugee and only recently started eq2.

    image
    EQ2 player
    Ex - EVE Online addict
    played -
    SWG, EQ2, Vanguard, Planetside, Second Life, EVE-O and a few randoms

  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311

    Originally posted by mentalmonkey
    to be honest i dont really care weather there are seperate rulesets for raiding, but you dont know mabey the loot for high end raids to to help bost raiding stats (only give you a significant edge in the raids themselves) as for people who do alot of raiding generally spend alot of time in raids (duh) where it woud be most usefull to them.
    remeber people this thread is about subscriber numbers if you do wish to discuss differnt ruleset server please make a differnt thread, and i dont think it will change the game a huge amount,(in terms of subsriber number definatly not by 1000% as was stated earlier (50k-500k)
    im not hugelg experienced on raiding as im a swg refugee and only recently started eq2.

    i don't think raiding has that much to do with subscriber numbers at all, i think the most deciding factor to numbers is how casual friendly the game is.

    how easy it is to pick up and learn (for a newb) and how fun the game is to play. i really do wish sigil would incorporate a non-raiding server for people who hate to raid...but honestly i don't think it will matter with a game like vanguard.

    i think wow would be the perfect game to have non-raiding servers....man oh man that game would really blow up if it had non-raiding servers, at least until everyone had everything in the game a couple months later. ::::18::

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630


    Originally posted by mentalmonkey

    wow apeals to the new gamer/first time mmoer/ younger market because it is simple with the ability to exel but not be differnt,

    Lmao at people who think they are e-tough and e-skilled because they chose Vanguard over WoW.  Adding more downtime and more time sinks doesn't make a game deeper.

    But if you think so, I have a game for you! I call it Amatheworld. Right now you are level 1. To get to level 2, beat your head against a brick wall for 1 year. Call me when you're done and I will give you a +1 sword. Amatheworld is even harder than Vanguard and it doesn't have any sissy graphics either - those are for the younger market/first time mmoers. I have pretty much eliminated all possible fun in my game, so it should be a hit with the Vanbois.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • PonicoPonico Member UncommonPosts: 650
    Would you compare EVE with WOW ? I know I wouldn't in terms of settings and gameplay however, if you go with quality...



    Vanguard will never have more players then WoW but from what I see,
    Vanguard will have a tight community and perhaps more mature. If you
    played SWG before the revamps, I think the game will have that
    feeling... You will be focused on your city, your little house
    decoration, some raids but one thing is sure, organised guilds in
    Vanguard will be more demanding then a WOW guild. I am not talking as
    in playing time but more as the structure and organisation itself.



    Each guild will have a different goal such as:



    - Crafter guild

    - PVP guild

    - Raid guild

    - You name it!





    Now, of course.. I could be wrong but I really pray that I am not :)






    image

  • mentalmonkeymentalmonkey Member Posts: 85


    Originally posted by Amathe



    Originally posted by mentalmonkey

    wow apeals to the new gamer/first time mmoer/ younger market because it is simple with the ability to exel but not be differnt,


    But if you think so, I have a game for you! I call it Amatheworld. Right now you are level 1. To get to level 2, beat your head against a brick wall for 1 year. Call me when you're done and I will give you a +1 sword. Amatheworld is even harder than Vanguard and it doesn't have any sissy graphics either

    cool is it F2P or P2P?

    i find it hard to accept you opinion as i have said pretty much the same as most other posters on this forum (wows simplicity) i made a mature point about wow succes and how it differs from vanguard, It wasnt "OMFG WOW PLAYERS R TEH NOOBZ!!!!1!!two!! ROFL!" and as for any bais towards vanguard this is a vanguard forum what do you expect?

    mabey i shouldnt have added the "flame at will" bit : P

    image
    EQ2 player
    Ex - EVE Online addict
    played -
    SWG, EQ2, Vanguard, Planetside, Second Life, EVE-O and a few randoms

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630


    Originally posted by mentalmonkey

    cool is it F2P or P2P?



    I'm waiting on SOE to get back to me on that.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • VanguardeVanguarde Member Posts: 198


    Originally posted by Amathe






    Originally posted by mentalmonkey
    cool is it F2P or P2P?




    I'm waiting on SOE to get back to me on that.

    Its Pay to play.
  • mentalmonkeymentalmonkey Member Posts: 85


    Originally posted by Vanguarde



    Originally posted by Amathe






    Originally posted by mentalmonkey
    cool is it F2P or P2P?




    I'm waiting on SOE to get back to me on that.

    Its Pay to play.


    k i will give it a go

    image
    EQ2 player
    Ex - EVE Online addict
    played -
    SWG, EQ2, Vanguard, Planetside, Second Life, EVE-O and a few randoms

  • mentalmonkeymentalmonkey Member Posts: 85


    Originally posted by mentalmonkey



    Originally posted by Amathe



    Originally posted by mentalmonkey

    wow apeals to the new gamer/first time mmoer/ younger market because it is simple with the ability to exel but not be differnt,


    But if you think so, I have a game for you! I call it Amatheworld. Right now you are level 1. To get to level 2, beat your head against a brick wall for 1 year. Call me when you're done and I will give you a +1 sword. Amatheworld is even harder than Vanguard and it doesn't have any sissy graphics either

    cool is it F2P or P2P?

    i find it hard to accept you opinion as i have said pretty much the same as most other posters on this forum (wows simplicity) i made a mature point about wow succes and how it differs from vanguard, It wasnt "OMFG WOW PLAYERS R TEH NOOBZ!!!!1!!two!! ROFL!" and as for any bais towards vanguard this is a vanguard forum what do you expect?

    mabey i shouldnt have added the "flame at will" bit : P


    do i not get a sword to start with as a pre-order bonus (if i choose to lab rat)

    image
    EQ2 player
    Ex - EVE Online addict
    played -
    SWG, EQ2, Vanguard, Planetside, Second Life, EVE-O and a few randoms

  • dreamer05dreamer05 Member UncommonPosts: 679


    Originally posted by Anofalye

    "Compete" as in amount of subscribtions?
     
    That is...doubtful...for ANY game.  Yet, it isn't impossible.
     
    I am more thinking that Vanguard will have about 50k subscribers...or 500k if they get over their ego and make the raid-free servers.  But well, that is just how I feel about it.
     
    I could be wrong.  Also, once the peoples play it...if they enjoy it, it could draw a lot more folks in the months following...so in the event of a raid-free servers, a 500k after 6 months COULD developp in millions of players if these 500k players are very happy about the game and the various features it has (doubtful, Brad is an enforcer-type, which in turn make less nice emotion back toward him).  I doubt it, but...it COULD happen.
     
    But with raid-enforced on every server, it would be reduce to the MxO status in about a year or two.  And, I can't create the raid-free servers for them.  I can shout, pout, scream, dance, say it, repeat it, repeat it and so on.  But the Sigil team is the only group of folks who can do that.  And post-release it wouldn't work as well...so it has to be done at release...even if they would have to delay the whole thing or have broken servers, as long as it is there at release...

    Seriously get off the raid free servers ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!! Every post I've ever seen you make is about anti-raid or raid free servers. Raiding is a part of EVERY MMO. I don't even raid and raiding doesn't really bother me, who cares. As for the OP I don't think raid free servers will determine how many subscribers VG has. VG and WoW are two very different games and I think people who truley enjoy the casualness of WoW won't enjoy VG. When comparing the two I think VG has great potential to steal away some WoW subscribers but will it end up with as many as WoW? Doubtful, but hey theres no problem with that.

    image

    "God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."

  • dragonacedragonace Member UncommonPosts: 1,185
    Originally posted by Anofalye
    "Compete" as in amount of subscribtions?   That is...doubtful...for ANY game.  Yet, it isn't impossible.   I am more thinking that Vanguard will have about 50k subscribers...or 500k if they get over their ego and make the raid-free servers.  But well, that is just how I feel about it.   I could be wrong.  Also, once the peoples play it...if they enjoy it, it could draw a lot more folks in the months following...so in the event of a raid-free servers, a 500k after 6 months COULD developp in millions of players if these 500k players are very happy about the game and the various features it has (doubtful, Brad is an enforcer-type, which in turn make less nice emotion back toward him).  I doubt it, but...it COULD happen.   But with raid-enforced on every server, it would be reduce to the MxO status in about a year or two.  And, I can't create the raid-free servers for them.  I can shout, pout, scream, dance, say it, repeat it, repeat it and so on.  But the Sigil team is the only group of folks who can do that.  And post-release it wouldn't work as well...so it has to be done at release...even if they would have to delay the whole thing or have broken servers, as long as it is there at release...
    Why doesn't that same logic hold true for WoW?

    WoW has millions and millions of subscribers.  Yet, they have ZERO raid-free servers.  In fact, ALL their servers are "raid-enforced" by your definition. 

    So, again; why doesn't that logic hold true for WoW?  Could it be that your arguement holds no water?


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