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Nothing new in Austin ( BIOWARE MMO speculation)
Rattrap
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,599
I just read this little article
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155486
It is interview with BWaustin developers. And unfortunately it is again WoW this WoW that.
They talk about how they play WoW , how EvE is very niche game. They praise instancing...
Basically , if we ever thought something new will come from BIOWARE ... this is now denied.
They do praise storytelling. And Polished end product.
So on the end we will probably get a very good, polished MMO in same philosopy as LOTRO
- aka Copy WOW, polish, add good story ...
To bad. I really expected something more revolutionary from BIOWARE.
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Comments
So, in your oppinion Jade Empire, Baldurs Gate 1 and 2, MDK AND Neverwinter Nights AND it's modules were all, what? Crap?
Talk about high expectations...
As far as Bioware and the upcomming MMO, I'd agree with Ratty, their comments dissapoint me to say the least. I was really hoping they would hit the whole industry over the head and really plug something together that we could all consider a next gen game. With Mythic, Turbine, SOE/Sigil, NCSoft all pretty much working with the same template, it's getting awefully predictable.
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But I can't say I'm surprised, a singleplayer rpg developer, going to the mmo world, isn't exactly connected with the word "Massive".
So, in your oppinion Jade Empire, Baldurs Gate 1 and 2, MDK AND Neverwinter Nights AND it's modules were all, what? Crap?
Talk about high expectations...
As far as Bioware and the upcomming MMO, I'd agree with Ratty, their comments dissapoint me to say the least. I was really hoping they would hit the whole industry over the head and really plug something together that we could all consider a next gen game. With Mythic, Turbine, SOE/Sigil, NCSoft all pretty much working with the same template, it's getting awefully predictable.
Jade Empire was trash, MDK was a great game but it wasnt made by BioWare. MDK 2 (made by BioWare) wasnt that great as the first one. It lacked the awesome atmosphere that the first one had. Also, I'm not interested in playing as doc or max. I just wanna blast with Kurt.As for the BioWare MMORPG, I was hoping of something awesome. Talking about BG 1&2 caliber here. Guess that wont be happening.
Edit: Might as well add in that I'm getting really pissed at the MMORPG market. All they seem to be interested in doing is cloning EQ in the WoW instancing format. Sucks. Guess It's soon time to give up on MMORPG's for about 30 years. Maybe by then they have come up with a new MMORPG concept.
Rich Vogel: "One thing we don't want to do is NPC Pez dispensers, as I call them -- go over there, dispense a quest, and then go "vacuum-clean" a zone. We want to make sure you listen to NPCs, because choices matter. And that's really important." That's all the npcs are in wow, vanguard, Lotro etc etc etc.
When asked about repeating the same content over and over again James Ohlen says specifically that the grind (whether it be killing the same monster over and over again or doing the same instance over and over again) is not fun.
What Rich Vogel did say WoW/Blizzard did well was release a polished product, they took what was already out there, polished it and put it into their game. At Bioware they want to "develop a product that is Bioware first".
They did say it wasn't going to be a sand-box as putting the pressure on the players to create the fun is not what they wanted to do. It was going to be a more directed experience. Sure they like wow, and community aside wow is a very polished and entertaining game.
I really do not think you read the article that you linked to :P Maybe re-read it for what it is? I dunno.. But to think from reading that article that they are making a wow clone is very far from the mark.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Mate , I read the article.
And yes. I deducted the same things as you did. There is no question Bioware will make awsome mmorpg.
For me games developed under Bioware brand (black isle, troika, interplay) were the best RPG gaming has to offer.
But it is also clear that they opted for Everquest type of MMO. Something we have seen and seen and seen and seen again.
There is so many potential in MMO genre. Yet everyone seems to be beating dead (but profitable) EQ horse
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
The engine is based on instancing and storytelling... so basicly they just regurgitated the sales pitch for the engine. You'll see it again from all the other customers of the engine, including Hero's Journey.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
So, in your oppinion Jade Empire, Baldurs Gate 1 and 2, MDK AND Neverwinter Nights AND it's modules were all, what? Crap?
Talk about high expectations...
As far as Bioware and the upcomming MMO, I'd agree with Ratty, their comments dissapoint me to say the least. I was really hoping they would hit the whole industry over the head and really plug something together that we could all consider a next gen game. With Mythic, Turbine, SOE/Sigil, NCSoft all pretty much working with the same template, it's getting awefully predictable.
Jade Empire was trash, MDK was a great game but it wasnt made by BioWare. MDK 2 (made by BioWare) wasnt that great as the first one. It lacked the awesome atmosphere that the first one had. Also, I'm not interested in playing as doc or max. I just wanna blast with Kurt.As for the BioWare MMORPG, I was hoping of something awesome. Talking about BG 1&2 caliber here. Guess that wont be happening.
Edit: Might as well add in that I'm getting really pissed at the MMORPG market. All they seem to be interested in doing is cloning EQ in the WoW instancing format. Sucks. Guess It's soon time to give up on MMORPG's for about 30 years. Maybe by then they have come up with a new MMORPG concept.
Your absolutely right, my bad. MDK1 was made by Shiny and published by interplay if I remember right, I actually meant to be put a number 2 in there.
I don't know how anyone can call Jade Empire trash but whatever, to each their own and thus the joy of games. I think we're still forgetting how well thought out games like NWN and BG's were and as much as I may not be happy with the way they are apparently thinking, I wouldn't give up all hope just yet.
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While i like Bioware as a company, and own ALOT of their games, i do NOT have much hope for their MMO.
IF they had kept all the work themselves,instead of hiring MMO devs away from other existing teams, i might feel differently.
BUT they didnt,they recruited devs who had already worked on games i dont think are worthy of my time,and i expect those people to create the same old thing theyve made in the past.
MMO history so far shows, the same old devs make the same old crap ,over and over .
It would be nice to be wrong here though,i just dont see any evidence its gonna happen.
That explains much.
So , now we know we are going to get something similar to , probably LOTRO.
Really no problem with that. And i am sure Bioware will do A grade job on making it.
But dreams of SWG sandbox or Fallout sandbox are I guess out....
Forgotten Realms MMO would fit this type of game though.....
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Literally years before a release date and Bioware is already being bashed for making a well polished LotR:O(which isn't even out yet)/WoW clone.
Hey I've got an idea.
How about waiting until there's more information released on a game before claiming it's going to be another piece of polished shit.
No wonder Internet Forums are made fun of so much.
Highlights:
JO: Aside from BioWare, Blizzard is the company I respect the most -- and yes, WOW is an amazing game. But there's still so much room for growth, and WOW still has tons of room for improvement.
GW: And putting the onus on players to create all the fun is ... a challenge.
Ha. Nice jab there.
JO: We have big plans for end-game content that we can't talk about because it's a major part of our design. We think it's a very important aspect of the game, and we don't want players to be stuck grinding through the same content over and over again -- I know when I hit level 60 in WoW, I pretty much quit. So whatever end-game model we have, it's not going to be that.
That's a major problem in most MMO's. Endgame content that's more a chore than fun. At least they are acknowledging this and plan on trying something different.
If those quest experience points were a little higher, it would make a lot more sense to go along with the story. Now, that's a very mechanical way to ensure players go along with your story -- the other way is to make sure your story is good, that the presentation is exciting, it's personal to the player, that the player has a lot of motivation to move forward in their story. That's not to say that experience and treasure aren't still important, though.
Is that where the LotR similiartity comes in? What's wrong with that? Apparently the people who play LotR: O liked these types of quests from other posts I've read. I'm pretty sure Bioware is capable of making a decent quest presentation comparable to the LotR ones.
They did it in Jade Empire and that game was "ok".
IGN 9.9
Gamespot 8.7
1UP 9.1
Gamespy ***** out of ***** stars.
Slashdot 9
Gamepro 4.5 out of 5
Gamershell 9.1
Soooooo...critical acclaim from just about everyone* backed by millions in sales would give indication that they at least have a good start in Knowing What The Hell They Are Doing.
Granted they've never done an MMO and probably will not make that next step needed for an MMO "revolution" (whatever the hell that means) but I'd be willing to wager they would at least evolutionize the genere. Which is all anyone can ask who isn't putting in the man hours themselves working on an MMO trying to do the best they possibly can do can ask.
If you want an MMO revolution you do it.
What I'm excited about is that a reputable gaming company with multiple RPG's both critically and financially successful under their belts is going to make an MMO. They've got the money, talent and time to make something great and a better shot than most at doing just that.
And if they don't, they don't.
Life goes on.
*Note: "just about everyone" means "a lot of people" and isn't to be taken literally. See figure of speech.
Yes, I also find that shallow and pedantic.
Dude, no one is bashing Bioware - Neither is anyone bashing LOTRO
We are just speculating ... just for fun.
I said that Bioware mmo will be EQ like , with attention to storytelling - with strong use of instances. With great care given to polish and quality. Not to much unlike we are seeing in LOTRO.
Thats all
Now where is bashing ?
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
...I was bashing HeroEngine... I'm definately guilty of that...
But I'm pretty much a middleware hater.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
If that is not the case or intention then I retract my statement of bashing but not my excitement for an MMO made by bioware.
Edit: I think protoroc has made the most reasonable statements of the day. Mass Effect can't come soon enough.
*Which in turn caused me to make a jaded reply, the irony isn't lost on me.
Yes, I also find that shallow and pedantic.
And while you at it, give us one serving of Dragon Age
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Kotor was good fun. I enjoyed it. Neverwinter Nights was a Big hit, but not for me. The beauty of NWN was it's netcode and moddability I'm thinking. The rest of Biowares games were pretty bad.
Bladders gate and clones bored the crap out of me. Memories of watching the loading screens endlesslty. Reloading after every fight. Hideously unsynchronised multiplay. You'd need to be a D&D fan to play that game. I don't imagine it would hold the intrest of someone who never played D&D. Pretty uninspired stuff.
MDK2 would have been fine if I was 12.
Jade Empire is coming out soon, like KOTOR it's an XBOX port so it won't be deeply complex and I doubt it will be an MMO. I think Kotor greatly benefitted from being an X-box game. They could no longer over complicate the adventure. Maybe Jade Empire will be fun. Who knows.
I'm not really sure what your talking about baff? Jade has been out since April 2005, perhaps you're thinking of the special edition coming out for PC .
In which case, it's not a direct xbox to pc port, it will support 1600x1200 res, has a completely revamped spell book and effects,. all the bonus material from the limited edition box, new textures, improved AI and an improved difficulty setting. Alot of which will take care of the issues people had with the first release.
As a side note, Jade won best RPG at E3 2004, EG's June month game, GI's top ten for 2005, IGN's best rpg for 2005, gs's xbox rpg of the year and top 10, along with a host of other awards.
It's by far not the best game ever made but I think it certainly had some wonderful quality, great moments and lots of fun for people that like RPG's with depthfilled stories.
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I think it is somewhat odd that developers presume that all players are going to like both the beginning and endgames. If you get your kicks grinding and building your toon, are you going to be happy when you hit the level cap and can only play the alternative end game? Conversely, what if you hate grinding but like the endgame concept? Are you going to spend months at something you dislike so that you can play the 'other' game?
I know it has been said a million times on this site but it still is unfortunate that this type of game model continues to sell well because there is little incentive to stray from it. Bioware is a good game maker but based on the initial info I won't be holding my breath that they will be breaking any molds.
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
I love Bioware games and I will give them the benefit of the doubt until I see it.
I don't expect, nor do I want, revolutionary UI's... what I do want is interesting gameplay and story telling.
Now I have nothing against that in the abstract, but I was hoping for something much more complete and immersive from Bioware. Instead it sounded an awful lot like we will get a larger version of the PVE campaigns in GW (very strong story telling, voice acting, you go live out the story, etc... but very narrow, limited, all instanced, etc). Again I enjoyed GW when I played this campaign, but it kept me interested for all of a month and a half. If they are going to want me along for a serious ride, they need a full world for me to explore and have my characters live in. And from what I have heard we are not going to get that from Bioware.
C
I'm not really sure what your talking about baff? Jade has been out since April 2005, perhaps you're thinking of the special edition coming out for PC .
In which case, it's not a direct xbox to pc port, it will support 1600x1200 res, has a completely revamped spell book and effects,. all the bonus material from the limited edition box, new textures, improved AI and an improved difficulty setting. Alot of which will take care of the issues people had with the first release.
Sorry I don't keep up with console games. If it's not a PC game it isn't on my radar.
I guess they haven't spent the last year or two working on that then. Which is what I had been assuming.
Nice to hear they have added PC sized screen resolutions and also critically added high res textures. Something most ports tend to forget.
Essentially a port is a port. The maps are still all limited to the original 64 MB arenas of Xbox land etc. The number of spells included still interface dependant on the number of buttons on the controller.