Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Why nothing will ever change...
Pr0tag0ni5t
Member UncommonPosts: 263
This is just my reflections on the mmo landscape as I see it now, in it's current state, and what that means for the future.
These are some the realities I am using as a base for my post that most would agree with. None of which based on my personal likes, dislikes of said game.
Companies want to be successful
WoW is standard by which other mmo's are measured. Based on the sheer # of subs. whether we like it or not.
SOE is the most successful american company behind Blizzard (pertaining to mmo games) again whether we like it or not.
SWG was a lot of peoples 1st experience with the mmo world and now there are a lot of very bitter and cynical gamers that are extremely distrustful of any company esp. SOE.
Wow, EQ2, DAoC, VSoH, Ryzom, LOTRO are the games the majority of people are playing/discussing/debating/comparing. And all are games I have played beta to live or are playing right now. I have played many more than this also
I'm not a big poster as you can see...but I do read a lot of threads on games at this site and others and my reflections are on what I have read in the threads and my exp. in the mmo world.
Now for the opinion part of my post...
Mmo games will never change.
It is almost impossible to pull a sub away from Wow. I am not referring to those that quit because they don't like it anymore and find something else to play...but current satisfied players. So companies have a huge disadvantage from the start when launching a new game. So these companies want to be successful so they look to the powerhouse in the field. Therefore we have what most people refer to as wow clones. Unable to break away from what has gone before in order to have a margin of success...it is Blizzard's world....we just live in it.
The next great obstacle is the dated hardware that a majority of people have...for example my brother has a comp that runs Wow just fine...but i tried to load eq2 on there and it wouldn't even start up...my point is it is nearly impossible for a company to try and take a game to the next level or 'next generation' and try to incorporate unique/great features we all want to see in our dream mmo, with out completely ignoring a very large number of potential customers. So when any company tries to attempt something different or improve grahpics or make a world full of great detail or incorporate features that take a lot of coding they are met with a fanatical opposition. The mechanics and features in wow take A LOT less space...doesnt' take an elaborate game engine to run...where as VSoH..has so much packed into that game and has so many complex features that it takes a pretty sophisticated game engine to run. (This is not a 'that makes it a better game' statement) again my point in saying that is how can a company (which is in the business to make money) risk attempting making a 'next gen' mmo with all this against them before they even sit down with a pen and paper to write...'Once upon a time...' and try designing a new game?
We all scream for innovation....something different....engaging meaningful content....long lasting fun....ability to impact the world we play in a real way.
This is all coming from the most recent launch of VSoH and the upcoming release of LOTRO. I highly anticipated the release of VSoH like most did. It tried to push the limits of mmo's with all the features they were trying to give to us as players. IMO they accomplished that at the core...but the game was released unfinished and IMO ahead of its time as far as system requirements go. We say its poor programming on their part..but how will they ever make a game if they will never be free of the players lack of up to date systems, if they constantly have to make it playable for systems 5 years old while trying to make it 'next gen'. My point here is VSoH is/has taking a risk to try and bring us something great. But has already 'failed' before they started because of the obstacles i mentioned earlier.
So games will never change....
Then you have LOTRO...a 2007 game...launching in a couple weeks....and focused on making it accessible for everyone to play....and virtually bug free..extremely low learning curve...fun...balanced risk vs. reward...easily soloable to the end. But not a very diverse game....really only 2 things to do pve or craft...and you can't really advance in crafting without advancing in pve. So we have another great running game that a large part of the mmo world can play, with wonderful polish, in a setting that has years of history and lore behind it. But offering little of what we ask (and I know this is different for everyone) as far as gameplay depth, content and multiple avenues of game play...and offering nothing special graphically. This game is fun just as Wow was fun when i started playing that...but my guess is that once you lvl to cap (which given my exp. won't take very long). there will be very few options on what do do with your time in game...so therefore we have a slightly updated version of Wow...in a different package.
I applaud EQ2 for what it tried at the time...and Sigil for what they are now attempting...but Turbine is playing it safe by going with a proven system...almost exactly. Great business move...sure...will it be successful...absolutely...because while we make post after post about what we want in a game...when someone tries it...we then decide its not worth it because its not playable on a year 2000 system. So we then push playablity and polish... well you got it with LOTRO.
so mmo games will never change....
Comments
Sigil is awesome but wasn't given enough time, you should love Vanguard.
Lord of the Rings Online is boring and nothing new and you should not play it.
World of Warcraft is the standard.
You need to update your computer so you can play Vanguard, cause they tried something new.
Some notes:
Ryzom is a French game, just so you know... it's not American.
Vanguard's Engine was not made for MMOs. Their poor performance has many other attributing factors then Unreal and programming, although those factors didn't help.
Lord of the Rings Online could ship as fertilizer in a box, and people would still buy it probably.
World of Warcraft was Developed by Blizzard, but was Published by Vivindi.
SOE has only 1 title they've created from scratch: EverQuest 2. All other Titles hosted by this Publisher were made by other Development Studios.
Personal Opinion:
MMOs will change someday... You're seeing many new things being attempted by smaller studios who don't have to deal with Publisher clout or whatnot. I said it before:
Big Titles cost Big Money
Big Money expects Big Returns
Big Returns are earned by copying Big Title's Features
Games you see advertised as costing 30 million dollars (or 40, in some cases) are going to feel very pressed from the Publisher to get their return. You have to understand where some Executive sees the Development House as a drain, in which the money flows like water. If it was your money you were seeing flow down a drain, when would you plug that hole? Even large Publisher's have a money cap... look at Microsoft, how much spare money do they have, and how many MMOs have they canceled (I don't even care if you include VG or not with that).
You want innovation? You'll find the innovative games coming from small, dedicated, privately funded game companies.
Think Wish, not Vanguard.
Think Pirates of the Burning Sea, not Pirates of the Carribean.
There's more examples, but I think you get the point. I'm going to go drink and write more technical documents at a friends house... we have a revamped combat system to start writing.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
http://www.forceofarms.com/index.php
Plenty ideas are floating around indie developers that would greatly change mmorpgs as we know it. The problem is funding. Publishers are in the business for one thing… profits. SOE, EA, Vinidi they’re not going to throw a few hundred thousand at an indie or B-title team to create an mmo. Instead they’ll put a few million (ddo and lotro cost like 12million together?) into titles they know that will work and these titles will guarantee profit. WoW works, EQ worked anything similar is pretty much $$$.
I’ll use an mmo I’m familiar with, http://www.landatwar.com/ an indie team with a do-able game that is totally different from wow. Yet very little serious publishing offers. Why? To innovated, the team will not sell out to make it profitable (aka turn it into wow), so they have to ruff it with no monitory support thus slowing development. This plagues many indie mmos, Rome Victor for example, they rushed their devlopment, and the game turned out like crap. (after 5 years or so dev).
I could make a list a page long of mmos that are innovated, but sadly there is no point, 95% won't get off the ground, and very few that do won't make it onto your harddrives....
Good luck, those who confront conformity.
(sorry pretty much just said what the guys above me did, >,< that's what i get for getting things off my chest to quickly =D)
VG was buggy and stuttery for people with 2007 systems -- the issue isnt systems it is the code optimization, which is piss poor. I mean on my own system I need to ROLL BACK the drivers to play the game. That is cutting edge? Why does a cutting edge game require a user to use older drivers? What is out of date -- the code or the system? I think its the code and so many others do as well.
Look, there is plenty of room for good, well-made, optimized, original games --- it's just that noone wants to make them because the vast, vast majority of MMOs fail to recoup their investment. It;s the P2P thing -- people expect superior quality to sub for an extended period (post-WoW, with its polish), and to be honest there isn't a really great track record of quality in release MMOs. People bash LOTRO for being unoriginal ... but you know what? Most people prefer a game that is not original, but works well, the same way they prefer a TV, a fridge or a car that is not original but works well and floats the boat. All of this cutting edge nonsense is gamer elitism talking, and the publishers learned from WoW that the elitist gamer market is not where the $$$ are, so they went to the mainstream (honda/frigidaire/etc) market and made a ton of money selling a polished, if not cutting edge, product.
Here's the thing. In the world outside of games, the cutting edge afficionados are buying $500 bottles of wine, buying paintings in galleries and the like ... it ain't a mass market, folks. So yeah there will be some $500 bottle of wine type of games, but there will me many more "Macaroni Grill" type games for the masses ... predictable, yet enjoyable for many.
All of us elitist gamers need to get over this, and advocate more elitist games, while at the same time recognzing the value in the mass market games, instead of driving our tractors into the McDonald's like that French asshole did a few years ago. You can shoose to be Don Quixote and tilt at gaming's windmills for the rest of your days, but to be honest it's a waste of time.