Is monitoring several "bad rep" MMORPGs detrimental to SOE ?

Omega3

As it stands Sony is running a wide range of MMOGs: (numbers from: http://www.mmogchart.com/)

EQ1 (200.000), EQ2 (175.000), SWG (150.000), Vanguard (150.000), Planetside (20.000), Matrix Online (30.000), EQOA(30.000).

That’s 755.000 different accounts (but not 755.000 different players, IE: station access), broken down into:

Fantasy : 555.000 - Sci-Fi : 200.000

All those MMOGs except EQOA have a pretty bad reputation of either being outdated, had a broken launch, are not interesting etc… they all are negative flagships for SoE.

From a marketing standpoint, Sony is maintaining them alive because at the end of the day, the monthly fee covers the servers/updates cost and probably grants added value.  Whatever the quality of the product or its popularity, as long as its profitable, it has to be kept alive.

My personal opinion:

Sony should get their act together and close down all those MMOGs which are giving them such a bad rep in the MMORPG community, and develop something new, innovative and big.

Sony is quite capable of supporting innovative or out-of-the-box games as proved with games available on the different avatars of the Playstation.



I believe that having 750.000 customers shared amongst a dozen of different games and which are getting no new customers (but rather loosing them) is an extremely bad strategy, and that Sony could certainly benefit from closing down all those stillborns or old grandpas (in the case of EQ) and develop 1 sci-fi and 1 fantasy MMO to replace all that mess.



Thoughts?

Manmadegod

I think SOE is a failure to the gaming community and lost its touch on the pulse of the gaming community for some time... Now instead they are a watered down version of a gaming company - they have completely lost their sense for gaming and making games for gamers.. Instead, they toss out a turd, polish it a little (Very little) and then try to get gamers to eat it and tell them it's chocolate... Well gamers finally got a peice of corn in that "chocolate" and know that its been shyte all along.



To sum it up - SOE has such a bad reputation (DESERVEDLY SO) that a ton of players, myself included will never give SOE a dime again, ever. They are a underhanded business that works on completely unethical morals that even con artists rarely cross... In short, nothing would please me more than to see them go bankrupt.

Zorvan

SOE is not an mmo developer, they are a publisher. Most of the games on Station Pass are games they bought out (Vanguard's just awaiting the final hammer), and if Perpetual Entertainment turns out to be worthless, Gods and Heroes will probably be next in line. Far as I know, that's the only game they are publishing that they have no involvement other than publishing ( as in no financial involvement, either, unlike VG).

Garrik

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Originally posted by Zorvan
SOE is not an mmo developer, they are a publisher. Most of the games on Station Pass are games they bought out (Vanguard's just awaiting the final hammer), and if Perpetual Entertainment turns out to be worthless, Gods and Heroes will probably be next in line. Far as I know, that's the only game they are publishing that they have no involvement other than publishing ( as in no financial involvement, either, unlike VG).

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I think GnH will be the only game worth playing that they have published.

JimLad

You'd have 750,000 pissed off subscribers, including myself.

They don't have to close the games down to create something good. Their new titles get a lot of hype at launch, but don't seem to keep people playing. That's the games fault for not being innovative enough. They need to make something that really revolutionizes the genre, or else they'll be continuing to scrape players from the side of Blizzards frying pan for many more years to come.

Hoobley_deleted

Not that it makes a difference to what you're saying, but your source for your figures is kind of out of date. Vanguard isn't even featured on there.



Do you think anyone will every pick up mmorpgchart.com again? I understand some guy did it for a college project or something...

CleffyII

SOE's is detrimental to itself.  They take perfectly good games they are publishing at launch and turn them into bad games.  Such as Planet Side and Star Wars Galaxies.  Or they take a game they are developing and release half finished unoptimized crap at launch dooming it for life.

Omega3

Originally posted by JimLad


You'd have 750,000 pissed off subscribers, including myself.
They don't have to close the games down to create something good. Their new titles get a lot of hype at launch, but don't seem to keep people playing. That's the games fault for not being innovative enough. They need to make something that really revolutionizes the genre, or else they'll be continuing to scrape players from the side of Blizzards frying pan for many more years to come.

That 750.000 people would be pissed off is beyond doubt. But SoE could certainly come up with a creative "we can't afford to run the game anymore with such low subscription" and get away with it. How cna you counter such an argument?



As you say, they need to make something revolutionary - but most importantly, running all those different games take ressources (servers, teams, link with the companies updating the games if not owned by SoE) and split up the manpower into several small entities not capable of creating new and innovative things if theya re stuck on old (and, arguably, failed) projects.



Making something revolutionary on paper is one thing, but you are better off if you can pin down all the revolutionary thing into 1 game rather than different developper sin different companies coming up with ideas that only come up for "their" games.



Hence my point







Not that it makes a difference to what you're saying, but your source for your figures is kind of out of date. Vanguard isn't even featured on there.



Do you think anyone will every pick up mmorpgchart.com again? I understand some guy did it for a college project or something...



Indeed, those numbers are outdated. But those games are still running, and at worst i'd expect the subs number to have dropped by 20%... as you say its not critical to the debate, it only gives a ground to develop from.

The guy who made this site said he'd keep on monitoring the numbers but hasn't updated for a year, maybe he gave it up

cpt.Balerion

um I'd like to ask the OP, WHY would they close a game that is still making profit? (I think when they'll start loosing money they'll get rid of it no?)

should they close all of those games which brings some money in the pocket and risk to invest millions in another game that can end up as a major failure? why? why risk something when you have still profit from something else? why? to please gamers? to make people like you, me and other gamers happy? they are company, not a charity, they want money :P



you want them to close those games and make something else? well, go ahead and make all those 750 000 people quit :P



there's a saying in our country: "Better sparrow in hand than pigeon on the roof." or you can know it also like this: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

sums it up for me



P.S. the idea of making something great and innovative and getting rid of the bad is great idea... the problem is, we are not living in a fairytale

Omega3

Originally posted by cpt.Balerion

um I'd like to ask the OP, WHY would they close a game that is still making profit? (I think when they'll start loosing money they'll get rid of it no?)

should they close all of those games which brings some money in the pocket and risk to invest millions in another game that can end up as a major failure? why? why risk something when you have still profit from something else? why? to please gamers? to make people like you, me and other gamers happy? they are company, not a charity, they want money :P



you want them to close those games and make something else? well, go ahead and make all those 750 000 people quit :P



there's a saying in our country: "Better sparrow in hand than pigeon on the roof." or you can know it also like this: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

sums it up for me



P.S. the idea of making something great and innovative and getting rid of the bad is great idea... the problem is, we are not living in a fairytale

You are disilusioned



Ofc Sony is not charity, they don't care a rat ass about players being content - but they should.

WoW is polished and fun = 8 .000.000 subs, millions of $ per month for Blizzard/vivendi, good press, positive word of mouth etc...



Having a great game out is worth more than having a dozen of failure running just because they are "profitable".



Yes, SoE should take a risk - reuninting manpower and creativity instead of maintaining stillbirth alive



I know its "unrealistic", but its a way to go.

nomadian

So many games good for all access pass, and maybe people recruited to develop for the games maybe freely able to move from one game to another, I'm guessing.

Manmadegod

You are disilusioned



Ofc Sony is not charity, they don't care a rat ass about players being content - but they should.

WoW is polished and fun = 8 .000.000 subs, millions of $ per month for Blizzard/vivendi, good press, positive word of mouth etc...



Having a great game out is worth more than having a dozen of failure running just because they are "profitable".



Yes, SoE should take a risk - reuninting manpower and creativity instead of maintaining stillbirth alive



I know its "unrealistic", but its a way to go.

That assumes of course that SOE has the ability to make a game even if they had the time, money, and resources to build a next gen MMO... I simply don't think if given double their manpower they could make one... They simply dont remember where to find the gamers pulse.

cpt.Balerion

 

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Originally posted by Omega3

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Originally posted by cpt.Balerion

um I'd like to ask the OP, WHY would they close a game that is still making profit? (I think when they'll start loosing money they'll get rid of it no?)

should they close all of those games which brings some money in the pocket and risk to invest millions in another game that can end up as a major failure? why? why risk something when you have still profit from something else? why? to please gamers? to make people like you, me and other gamers happy? they are company, not a charity, they want money :P

you want them to close those games and make something else? well, go ahead and make all those 750 000 people quit :P

there's a saying in our country: "Better sparrow in hand than pigeon on the roof." or you can know it also like this: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

sums it up for me

P.S. the idea of making something great and innovative and getting rid of the bad is great idea... the problem is, we are not living in a fairytale

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You are disilusioned

Ofc Sony is not charity, they don't care a rat ass about players being content - but they should.

WoW is polished and fun = 8 .000.000 subs, millions of $ per month for Blizzard/vivendi, good press, positive word of mouth etc...

Having a great game out is worth more than having a dozen of failure running just because they are "profitable".

Yes, SoE should take a risk - reuninting manpower and creativity instead of maintaining stillbirth alive

I know its "unrealistic", but its a way to go.

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I am disillusioned? ^^

okay, imagine this: you are a head of a big company (SOE), you are running X mmogs and each of them is still making a profit, now... you would close all those profit making games just to spend millions of $ and years of development to make a new game that'd have hm -I'll be generous here- and let's say 500 000 subs (or what's the best average nowadays?) when everything will go too well (not to mention that during those years you won't have a profit that you had from those games you just closed), so you'll be spending TONS of money on developing something that probably won't have so many subs as the current bad games

well, I'm asking you again: Why would you do that?

now let's take a look at games like WoW and lineage 2... how innovative are those games? I think they have most subs no? now let's look at those successful innovative games we've seen so far... hm... dunno, let's take EVE (as I'm playing it currently), it sure is innovative compared to WoW and L2... how many subs it has? I guess a bit less then L2 :P

so what's the point of taking such risk with closing 'sure' profit and developing 'unsure' innovative game?

things like that happens in fairy tales, it won't happen in this cruel real life, it sure is nice to think about such things though (I like to think that one day I'll be a millionaire, I'll own a spaceship and will visit Mars every summer)

maybe I'm just ranting to myself cause I'm really boring at work at the moment lol duh

Daffid011

By your logic MMO's wouldn't even exist.   Imagine if someone said no to the developer who said, hey!  Lets make a game where thousands of people can log on and play together.  WoW itself was a risk during its development phase, even if it wasn't innovative.   SOE at the time was a MMO juggernaut that had the potential to crush anything in their path. 



On the other hand I think Sony has stopped taking chances on making games because they have come to the realization that they just cannot do it.  How can you mess up the sequel to the blockbuster EQ and also produce a flop with the biggest license in the world (star wars).  They just don't know how to create magic anymore.

Kasmar

I have to laugh at how the SOE haters are really getting angry because EQ2 is staying at the top of the list for such a long time. 

Lets face it, EQ1 is still fun to play. 

EQ2 is better and getting even better with every LU.  I am almost positive we will see the return of the Vah Shir soon, hopefully with the next expansion.

The EQ2 PvP servers are being tested as we speak.  Although I am not a fan of PvP, I do realize there are many that love it and EQ2 is going to provide that venu. 

Razperil

Originally posted by Kasmar


I have to laugh at how the SOE haters are really getting angry because EQ2 is staying at the top of the list for such a long time. 
Lets face it, EQ1 is still fun to play. 
EQ2 is better and getting even better with every LU.  I am almost positive we will see the return of the Vah Shir soon, hopefully with the next expansion.
The EQ2 PvP servers are being tested as we speak.  Although I am not a fan of PvP, I do realize there are many that love it and EQ2 is going to provide that venu. 

I completely agree with you. EQ2 is a great game and it'll continue to stay up at the top. A lot of people continue to badmouth SOE about thier games yet, they have played these games themselves. A lot still play them too. And another thing, statistics don't mean a damn thing in games. Most of you need to get this in your mind, or lack of one.. so it seems. Reviews; ect, ect, ect are based by opinions. There's to much of a trend of people getting on certain topics and not letting them die out for something newer. Play a game and enjoy it. If changes come in a game and you don't like it, find a new one to play or stick it out with the one you're playing and hope it balances out in the end. Degrading a company ect, doesn't make you any better in the end. Like I've said before, it only shows your ignorance, shallowness, and many many other things. If you're going to be opinionated, at least do it with common sense. I have no idea where all of this badgering comes from these days.

Agricola1

If SOE took over WoW they'd probably get the subscriber numbers down to 100k within a year, because that's what SOE does best. They make/buy a game with a large fanbase already or potential fanbase SWG, Matrix, EQ2 ect then they screw it up and get 90% of them so angry that they wouldn't pee on an SOE employee if they were on fire and screaming for help.

SOE are scum, no other way to put it. They screw up the game and lie to the playerbase in order to milk them for more cash whilst reducing DEVs to a skeleton crew on your game, increasing station pass costs at the same time of course! They want you to get that station pass because 750k subscribers paying $30 a month is a pretty sweet deal for them, since they run most of their games with minimal support.

Also SWG 150k subs? Put down the pipe man it has 50k max.

Vanguard will only get less as this is the trend for 90% of MMOs, so that'll be at 50k this time next year probably bought out by SOE.

EQ2, I remember how that was going to be the MMO to destroy all MMOs and gamers were telling me to dump my present game as EQ2 was going to mash it "it's inevitable". They made a right pig's ear out of that didn't they!

Matrix Online, meh.

Planetside, would have alot of subs if they'd spent the same time and effort on improving it as they did turning SWG to crap!

EQ1, the only title thats has been and remains a success. But the amount of expansion packs they produce for a game that has over 100k is subs is scandalous! They crap out those expansion packs faster than a WW2 armaments factory could produce bullets!

Smed is a snake oil sales man with less ethics and respect for the consumer than every Enron executive put together X 1,000,000.

SOE is the victim of it's own bad business practice and p*** poor customer support, no wonder they made a clean sweep at the MMOWTF awards!

gillvane1

The original posters is assuming that players of the games listed, would all flock to this "new" game. The fact is that players have different views on what they think is a good game. There is no gaurantee you would get the people playing these different games to flock to something new. Some of them would probably like it, but a lot wouldnt' want to have anything to do with it. You would close the old game, just to drive those customers to someone else's game not made by SOE.





Absinthe Lovers

LordSlater

Originally posted by Manmadegod

I think SOE is a failure to the gaming community and lost its touch on the pulse of the gaming community for some time... Now instead they are a watered down version of a gaming company - they have completely lost their sense for gaming and making games for gamers.. Instead, they toss out a turd, polish it a little (Very little) and then try to get gamers to eat it and tell them it's chocolate... Well gamers finally got a peice of corn in that "chocolate" and know that its been shyte all along.



To sum it up - SOE has such a bad reputation (DESERVEDLY SO) that a ton of players, myself included will never give SOE a dime again, ever. They are a underhanded business that works on completely unethical morals that even con artists rarely cross... In short, nothing would please me more than to see them go bankrupt.

I liked this post but i have to say the Turds are highly polished [snazzy graphics beutiful game worlds etc]. But in the end no matter how polished it is, it is still a Turd.

Omega3

Originally posted by gillvane1

The original posters is assuming that players of the games listed, would all flock to this "new" game. The fact is that players have different views on what they think is a good game. There is no gaurantee you would get the people playing these different games to flock to something new. Some of them would probably like it, but a lot wouldnt' want to have anything to do with it. You would close the old game, just to drive those customers to someone else's game not made by SOE.





Absinthe Lovers

I ain't assuming such a thing.



I'm saying that by maintaining so many failures/oldies alive, SoE is loosing its strenght.



It's really sad that Sony - or at least, Sony America -  really lost any kind of respect from players. It's true that myself i'm not awaiting a jaw dropping MMORPG from them anymore. But well, they don't give themselves the ability to do so; and as some poepl say, as long as they make a little money, they probably don't care.