Aventurine SA is there together with companies like Boeing and Bell. Sounds like big money to me.
Aventurine was at E3 2006 with companies like SONY , Microsoft , NCsoft.. who gives a shit if they were at the same expo show. It proves nothing.
If their attendance at this Expo show was anything like their attendance at E3 2006 then it was a laugh considering they showed up at E3 2006 without their product on display and stood in an empty booth with a Darkfall poster behind them.
Originally posted by Malduster
Its not secret, they have previously said they have the funding of Greece's Military and they have made programs for them....
No they have never said they have funding from any military.
Originally posted by Aragon100 Oh the company were only created to make Darkfall you say?
No I didn't say it. The producer Tasos did. Unfortunately even when it comes straight from the devs you don't want to believe it if it doesn't fit your agenda... hilarious.
Another quote from Tasos that explain a bit better.
Aventurine currently employs 24 developers in-house and six professional contractors. The staff is international from Norway, Greece, Italy, the UK, the US, Denmark, and France. Its activities, other than Darkfall, are research into game and simulation technologies. We've also advised war-game simulation military projects in the past through other companies in our group, activities that have given us some valuable perspectives to be used in game development. The company also sponsors and supports sporting events, athletes, and competitive gaming tournaments. Aventurine is organized under the laws of Greece and the European Union as an S.A. Corporation.
My company has also advised war-game simulation military projects in the past through other companies in our group, activities that have given us some valuable perspectives to be used in game development. My company also sponsors and supports sporting events, athletes, and competitive gaming tournaments.
But we can't tell you who we sponsor or what projects we;ve ever worked on.
Don't believe me? You need proof you say?? WHY IS THAT? you seem to believe other people when they say it without question.
Talk is cheap.. and suckers come a dime a dozen. My company has also advised war-game simulation military projects in the past through other companies in our group, activities that have given us some valuable perspectives to be used in game development. My company also sponsors and supports sporting events, athletes, and competitive gaming tournaments. But we can't tell you who we sponsor or what projects we;ve ever worked on. Don't believe me? You need proof you say?? WHY IS THAT? you seem to believe other people when they say it without question. See how that works?
Did you also take a 20 million dollar loan to finance a computer game on your company?=)
I didn't take that loan... where can I get 20 million in a loan?
I did use my VA loan in conjunction with 2 Angel Investors... but it got me nowhere near 20 million...
What bank do I have to talk to to get THAT loan?
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title. "When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Did you also take a 20 million dollar loan to finance a computer game on your company?=)
No and there's really no proof that they did either.
Aventurine issued a convertible bond loan (or so it would seem going by that vague one line text blurb on the net).
They placed up bonds for purchase. Investors need to buy those bonds which later can get "converted" into shares in the company. Bonds are debt instruments and need to be repayed, similar to a loan, although in the case of convertible bonds they can also be converted into shares of the issuing company.
Companies typically do this to try and get out of debt , or raise money for whatever..
Problem is , no where does it say they actually sold 28 mill worth of those bonds to (x company or investors). And the fact that Aventurine is not a publically traded company just makes it that much harder to prove.
Usually there's an announcement date and a issuance date. At the announcement date , the company announces the deal. The deal is then finalized at the issuance date. There is no issuance date known or listed anywhere. The deal is definite at the issuance date. So if there WAS an issuance date publically known then you would know 100% that they did in fact get 28 mill.
The fact that neither of these dates are known is strange for a deal that large and tells me that it probably never happened. Because there would be absolutely no reason to try and hide that if it did...
Most companies do public press releases when it happens becase it's a big deal.
Claiming that a small independent MMO developer with no industry experience that has been producing an MMO for 7 years that is not in beta, has a limited target market appeal and has very little positive market exposure would receive such a relatively massive investment but make no public statement about it certainly is extraordinary.
As 28days and many other people who are knowledgeable about convertible bond loans has shown the so called “evidence” that the developers received millions of dollars of investment is unconfirmed and unsubstantiated at best
But anyone only using common sense looking at this issue who is rational and objective can see there is good reason to be skeptical.
I really wish the developers did get this huge amount of money to help them finish the game quicker and better, unfortunately that is wishful thinking considering the evidence available to support it.
What do you guys think? WHy would a Defense Contractor be involved in a MMORPG?
I wonder who's backing them financially. ==================================================================== You're kidding right? Could ask why would a Defense Contractor be involved with a FPS game. Then, along comes 'America's Army'. MMORPG is the obviious next step in Recruiting and Propoganda for the military.
I don't think Darkfall will be a recruitment vessel.
Like someone pointed out before, it is most likely Aventurine is just using their past experience in producing War Game simulators to create a MMO.
I would assume they are indirectly funded by the EU or then by the military of a European country. This could be one of the main reasons for the delays as well. I mean if the main funders tell you to 'drop Darkfall indefinitely and work on this battlefield simulator', you do not have much choice.
Claiming that a small independent MMO developer with no industry experience that has been producing an MMO for 7 years that is not in beta, has a limited target market appeal and has very little positive market exposure would receive such a relatively massive investment but make no public statement about it certainly is extraordinary.
As 28days and many other people who are knowledgeable about convertible bond loans has shown the so called “evidence” that the developers received millions of dollars of investment is unconfirmed and unsubstantiated at best
But anyone only using common sense looking at this issue who is rational and objective can see there is good reason to be skeptical.
I really wish the developers did get this huge amount of money to help them finish the game quicker and better, unfortunately that is wishful thinking considering the evidence available to support it.
I never said they did or didnt because we dont know
I don't think Darkfall will be a recruitment vessel.
Like someone pointed out before, it is most likely Aventurine is just using their past experience in producing War Game simulators to create a MMO. I would assume they are indirectly funded by the EU or then by the military of a European country. This could be one of the main reasons for the delays as well. I mean if the main funders tell you to 'drop Darkfall indefinitely and work on this battlefield simulator', you do not have much choice.
The question that we have to answer is do either of these company’s websites Razorwax or Aventurine
look anything like the sort of websites we would expect from a successful and professional company who receives funding from the EU or the military of any EU member or has any sort of experience or success at producing war game simulators.
Or any of the other speculations about Aventurines possible involvement with government military contracts.
The only “evidence” that any of these speculations are based on as far as I’m aware is Aventurines name appearing on a list of thousands of attendee’s for a convention or tradeshow one time.
Some pictures of the Aventurine company logo on a racing car in Greece at some time years ago was discovered, can we presume that aventurine is also partly financed by contracts for software suitable for the racing car applications?
I personally think it is quite an extraordinary leap of faith and wishful thinking to believe that they are so busy working on contracts for EU nation army’s or war simulators that they don’t have enough time to finish Darkfall, especially considering they have publicly stated that they are working on Darkfall full time and never mentioned any other projects.
I don't think Darkfall will be a recruitment vessel.
Like someone pointed out before, it is most likely Aventurine is just using their past experience in producing War Game simulators to create a MMO. I would assume they are indirectly funded by the EU or then by the military of a European country. This could be one of the main reasons for the delays as well. I mean if the main funders tell you to 'drop Darkfall indefinitely and work on this battlefield simulator', you do not have much choice.
The question that we have to answer is do either of these company’s websites Razorwax or Aventurine
look anything like the sort of websites we would expect from a successful and professional company who receives funding from the EU or the military of any EU member or has any sort of experience or success at producing war game simulators.
Or any of the other speculations about Aventurines possible involvement with government military contracts.
The only “evidence” that any of these speculations are based on as far as I’m aware is Aventurines name appearing on a list of thousands of attendee’s for a convention or tradeshow one time.
Some pictures of the Aventurine company logo on a racing car in Greece at some time years ago was discovered, can we presume that aventurine is also partly financed by contracts for software suitable for the racing car applications?
I personally think it is quite an extraordinary leap of faith and wishful thinking to believe that they are so busy working on contracts for EU nation army’s or war simulators that they don’t have enough time to finish Darkfall, especially considering they have publicly stated that they are working on Darkfall full time and never mentioned any other projects.
Most small defense industry companies do not even have websites.
Most small defense industry companies do not even have websites.
If that’s what you have to believe to support this, unfortunately for you in reality a quick google search proves your statement as being completely false.
After a few minutes of searching you can find many example's of what a small but successful and professional military software company’s website looks like.
I don't think Darkfall will be a recruitment vessel.
Like someone pointed out before, it is most likely Aventurine is just using their past experience in producing War Game simulators to create a MMO. I would assume they are indirectly funded by the EU or then by the military of a European country. This could be one of the main reasons for the delays as well. I mean if the main funders tell you to 'drop Darkfall indefinitely and work on this battlefield simulator', you do not have much choice.
The question that we have to answer is do either of these company’s websites Razorwax or Aventurine
look anything like the sort of websites we would expect from a successful and professional company who receives funding from the EU or the military of any EU member or has any sort of experience or success at producing war game simulators.
Or any of the other speculations about Aventurines possible involvement with government military contracts.
The only “evidence” that any of these speculations are based on as far as I’m aware is Aventurines name appearing on a list of thousands of attendee’s for a convention or tradeshow one time.
Some pictures of the Aventurine company logo on a racing car in Greece at some time years ago was discovered, can we presume that aventurine is also partly financed by contracts for software suitable for the racing car applications?
I personally think it is quite an extraordinary leap of faith and wishful thinking to believe that they are so busy working on contracts for EU nation army’s or war simulators that they don’t have enough time to finish Darkfall, especially considering they have publicly stated that they are working on Darkfall full time and never mentioned any other projects.
What you personally think here is pretty much irrelevant. Based on this companies background I would say they are sticking true to type, and that in context they are very good at doing just what they see fit to.
Info will be available when they are ready and they see fit to release it.
From my perspective the website is functional but other than that I care little for it, what I care for is that they have a concept, design approach and will deliver what they say they will. In the context of the design to deliver partial features will be a mistake as the concept demands that the whole game is available at release else it just will not work.
If people are good they are always in demand and the indicated source of this companies expertise is very demanding and important, also an area where discussion would damage their integrity. Their approach to customer relations may not fit the normal profile, but then it is amazing how some people are just plain different.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
What you personally think here is pretty much irrelevant. Because you don't agree with what I'm saying, but let me guess everything you say, or anyone else who is positive about Darkfall or its developers is relevant in your opinion. Based on this companies background I would say they are sticking true to type, I agree if you are referring to their background of terrible PR, broken promises and a chronic shortage of information released over a course of 7 years. and that in context they are very good at doing just what they see fit to. I agree but I dont necessary think it's a good idea to continue in the same way. Info will be available when they are ready and they see fit to release it. Yes but when will it be ready or when will they see fit to release it, that is the question. From my perspective the website is functional but other than that I care little for it, I think you should adjust your perspective by comparing it to some other company websites, I suppose I agree it is "functional" considering it is a website and that technically it does function. But if thats the best one could say about it then I guess thats self explanatory. what I care for is that they have a concept, design approach and will deliver what they say they will. Me too, but whether or not they will be succesfull in delivering is yet to be confirmed. In the context of the design to deliver partial features will be a mistake as the concept demands that the whole game is available at release else it just will not work. Apparently thats not a problem because the primary delay for the start of beta is the publishing decision, not the state of development according to the developers. If people are good they are always in demand and the indicated source of this companies expertise is very demanding and important, I'm not sure if the developers have satisfactorily demonstrated that they are in demand or good, have any expertise or if anything they have accomplished is important. also an area where discussion would damage their integrity. Unfortunately there integrity has already been damaged considerably by discussions for many years due to there actions. Their approach to customer relations may not fit the normal profile, And that has been very unfortunate for both the developers and the community. but then it is amazing how some people are just plain different. I agree, but its no excuse.
Not sure why he says the client was “Darkfall’s game publisher” when they don’t have a publisher yet, presumably he was under the impression that Aventurine where self publishing at that time.
Not sure why he says “game sold world wide” perhaps he just simply wanted the position to sound more impressive, unless for some reason he is under the impression it has been.
Also this sort of thing to my understanding is an invite only, exhibition is held and representatives from countries are allowed to enter and view the exhibition and the products involved. You gottabe be doing some serious Defense work to get an invite, Aventurine S.A was there and to most people on these boards think there's supposedly a company that's making a vaporwere MMORPG. Thy're gotta have some serious backing to make a game based around soley PVP, maybe it's a tad bit more then just the next game they're might be using that same technology to market it as simulation based war games.
Sorry to burst your bubble but that’s not true, the only requirement to attend “defendory international” is how much money you are willing to pay for floor space, what you actually exhibit on the floor space you have paid for is irrelevant when arranging your exhibit space.
This is a repost of an email someone sent to me.
Well take a look at this.... any company can attend that show.. and it only costs 850 Euro for Greek Nationals , or Greek companies to get floor space..
I don't even have a company and they sent info inviting to come...
-----
Regarding the costs please note that the participation rates remained the same as in 2006. The only difference is that they have been converted into euro from Swiss francs. In addition to the cost of the floor space, I would also like to bring to your attention that, the participants of the U.S. Pavilion will pay a nominal surcharge for the U.S. Pavilion facilities and services, which will be provided by the American Hellenic Chamber of Commerce as described in detail in the attached Letter.
Since this is a New Venue the stands are allocated on a first-come, first-served basis and therefore we would highly appreciate if you can notify us of your plans the soonest possible, in order to secure your space.
We will be very pleased to welcome you as an exhibitor to DEFENDORY INTERNATIONAL in the US Pavilion and would like to assure you of our full support and assistance for a successful participation.
Should you require any additional information regarding participation, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Also this sort of thing to my understanding is an invite only, exhibition is held and representatives from countries are allowed to enter and view the exhibition and the products involved. You gottabe be doing some serious Defense work to get an invite, Aventurine S.A was there and to most people on these boards think there's supposedly a company that's making a vaporwere MMORPG. Thy're gotta have some serious backing to make a game based around soley PVP, maybe it's a tad bit more then just the next game they're might be using that same technology to market it as simulation based war games.
Sorry to burst your bubble but that’s not true, the only requirement to attend “defendory international” is how much money you are willing to pay for floor space, what you actually exhibit on the floor space you have paid for is irrelevant when arranging your exhibit space.
This is a repost of an email someone sent to me.
Well take a look at this.... any company can attend that show.. and it only costs 850 Euro for Greek Nationals , or Greek companies to get floor space..
I don't even have a company and they sent info inviting to come...
-----
Regarding the costs please note that the participation rates remained the same as in 2006. The only difference is that they have been converted into euro from Swiss francs. In addition to the cost of the floor space, I would also like to bring to your attention that, the participants of the U.S. Pavilion will pay a nominal surcharge for the U.S. Pavilion facilities and services, which will be provided by the American Hellenic Chamber of Commerce as described in detail in the attached Letter.
Since this is a New Venue the stands are allocated on a first-come, first-served basis and therefore we would highly appreciate if you can notify us of your plans the soonest possible, in order to secure your space.
We will be very pleased to welcome you as an exhibitor to DEFENDORY INTERNATIONAL in the US Pavilion and would like to assure you of our full support and assistance for a successful participation.
Should you require any additional information regarding participation, please do not hesitate to contact me.
If you attend something like this you have a product to sell. Cant understand that you go through such troubles as sending e-mails to strange persons you dont know neither want to do business with and the reason for it is to achieve some totally BS-response saying nothing?
If you attend something like this you have a product to sell. No, you are wrong. As clearly demonstrated you only need to be willing to pay for floor space, the actual nature of the product or services the exhibiter intends to sell or even the credentials of the exhibiters company in the military software development field are not considered when arranging floor space.
Cant understand that you go through such troubles as sending e-mails to strange persons you dont know neither want to do business with and the reason for it is to achieve some totally BS-response saying nothing? As I clearly said which you seem to of ignored or failed to understand I did not send this email someone else did, I just reposted it here, 5 minutes to copy paste and post this message was hardly any trouble at all I can assure you. I fail to understand why you consider Rene Kourbanis the Excutive Director of DEFENDORY INTERNATIONAL to be a “strange persons” or why you think his official response to an enquiry about exhibiting at DEFENDORY INTERNATIONAL is a “totally BS-response saying nothing” Perhaps you lack reading comprehension or the ability to process basic information.
Entrance fees, and that proves what?
What are you taking about?, I think you are getting entrance fees confused with exhibit floor space fee’s. What it proves is that anyone from Greece who wants to exhibit at DEFUNDORY INTERNATIONAL only has to pay a minium of 840 euros to do so. What they actually exhibited on a potential minimum of 1 meter squared exhibit space is entirely open to conjecture until someone posts information proving exactly what they did exhibit at DEFUNDORY INTERNATIONAL.
If you attend something like this you have a product to sell. No, you are wrong. As clearly demonstrated you only need to be willing to pay for floor space, the actual nature of the product or services the exhibiter intends to sell or even the credentials of the exhibiters company in the military software development field are not considered when arranging floor space. Can you explain the reason they entered the Defendory International? No you cant. Id say its way more believable they entered if cause they have something to sell, a product, something to promote.
Cant understand that you go through such troubles as sending e-mails to strange persons you dont know neither want to do business with and the reason for it is to achieve some totally BS-response saying nothing? As I clearly said which you seem to of ignored or failed to understand I did not send this email someone else did, I just reposted it here, 5 minutes to copy paste and post this message was hardly any trouble at all I can assure you. I fail to understand why you consider Rene Kourbanis the Excutive Director of DEFENDORY INTERNATIONAL to be a “strange persons” or why you think his official response to an enquiry about exhibiting at DEFENDORY INTERNATIONAL is a “totally BS-response saying nothing” Perhaps you lack reading comprehension or the ability to process basic information.
Id like to see the original correspondense since i dont believe you. Entrance fees, and that proves what? What are you taking about?, I think you are getting entrance fees confused with exhibit floor space fee’s. Its the same thing. They pay up and can communicate with similar minded companies. What it proves is that anyone from Greece who wants to exhibit at DEFUNDORY INTERNATIONAL only has to pay a minium of 840 euros to do so. What they actually exhibited on a potential minimum of 1 meter squared exhibit space is entirely open to conjecture until someone posts information proving exactly what they did exhibit at DEFUNDORY INTERNATIONAL. Id say it would be something like this http://www.asdsource.com/source_detail_small/2882/Aventurine_SA.htm
Aventurine S.A.
Address : Kifissias Av. 362
Halandri
15233
Country : Greece
Phone : +30-210-6897185
Organisation type : Company
MainMarkets : Aerospace, Space, Defence, Aviation
Company information
C4iS, GIS, HelNav Wargames Center, software and related services.
Again sorry to burst your bubble but ASDsource.com is a free website allowing ANYBODY to add there company details, the actual credentials or capability’s of the company are not a criteria for the listing process.
Check for yourself and click on the Add / Modify your details tab and you can see how easy it is to do, as you can see Aventurine have opted for the free membership option.
Just because Aventurine or any other of the over ten thousand company’s that are listed on this website does not necessarily mean they are defiantly a successful and professional company offering defense related software and/or services.
Click on the visit company website button for Aventurine, oh that is pathetic, looks very amateurish and totally unprofessional, this is the antithesis of what a small but professional and successful or even moderately successful and competent defense contractors website looks like.
But lets look at the limited company information provided about there software and related services.
C4iS Which is an acronym for Command, Control, Communications, and computers information system.
Sounds impressive but actually means nothing, is there any evidence that they have ever provided any type of C4IS software or related services, No there is not.
GIS Which is an acronym for Geographic information system.
Again sounds impressive but actually means nothing, is there any evidence that they have ever provided any type of GIS software or related services, No there is not
HELNAV Wargame Center
Absolutely no idea what this is, Hellenic, Hellas, Helen, Helicopter?, Navigation, Navy, ?.
What ever it is its so obscure or vague I can only find it referenced on a small number of Gaming forums talking about the Aventurine listing on the ASDsource website, or the actual Aventurine S.A. listing on the ASDsource website.
Any form of search using either of the acronyms in combination with the company names of Aventurine or Aventurine S.A only finds the original listing on the ASDsource.com website or a small number of gaming forums talking about the Aventurine listing on the ASDsource website.
You guys can soon start working for New York Times.
______________________________ The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess. And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic' and send them to the Special Olympus.
Comments
Aventurine was at E3 2006 with companies like SONY , Microsoft , NCsoft.. who gives a shit if they were at the same expo show. It proves nothing.
If their attendance at this Expo show was anything like their attendance at E3 2006 then it was a laugh considering they showed up at E3 2006 without their product on display and stood in an empty booth with a Darkfall poster behind them.
No they have never said they have funding from any military.
No I didn't say it. The producer Tasos did. Unfortunately even when it comes straight from the devs you don't want to believe it if it doesn't fit your agenda... hilarious.
Another quote from Tasos that explain a bit better.
Aventurine currently employs 24 developers in-house and six professional contractors. The staff is international from Norway, Greece, Italy, the UK, the US, Denmark, and France. Its activities, other than Darkfall, are research into game and simulation technologies. We've also advised war-game simulation military projects in the past through other companies in our group, activities that have given us some valuable perspectives to be used in game development. The company also sponsors and supports sporting events, athletes, and competitive gaming tournaments. Aventurine is organized under the laws of Greece and the European Union as an S.A. Corporation.
http://df.warcry.com/news/view/68059-Developer-Journal-1-About-Adventurine%22]Darkfall%20Journal%201%20ΓÇô%20About%20Aventurine
Seems like alot of money to me.
Talk is cheap.. and suckers come a dime a dozen.
My company has also advised war-game simulation military projects in the past through other companies in our group, activities that have given us some valuable perspectives to be used in game development. My company also sponsors and supports sporting events, athletes, and competitive gaming tournaments.
But we can't tell you who we sponsor or what projects we;ve ever worked on.
Don't believe me? You need proof you say?? WHY IS THAT? you seem to believe other people when they say it without question.
See how that works?
Did you also take a 20 million dollar loan to finance a computer game on your company?=)
I didn't take that loan... where can I get 20 million in a loan?
I did use my VA loan in conjunction with 2 Angel Investors... but it got me nowhere near 20 million...
What bank do I have to talk to to get THAT loan?
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
No and there's really no proof that they did either.
Aventurine issued a convertible bond loan (or so it would seem going by that vague one line text blurb on the net).
They placed up bonds for purchase. Investors need to buy those bonds which later can get "converted" into shares in the company. Bonds are debt instruments and need to be repayed, similar to a loan, although in the case of convertible bonds they can also be converted into shares of the issuing company.
Companies typically do this to try and get out of debt , or raise money for whatever..
Problem is , no where does it say they actually sold 28 mill worth of those bonds to (x company or investors). And the fact that Aventurine is not a publically traded company just makes it that much harder to prove.
Usually there's an announcement date and a issuance date. At the announcement date , the company announces the deal. The deal is then finalized at the issuance date. There is no issuance date known or listed anywhere. The deal is definite at the issuance date. So if there WAS an issuance date publically known then you would know 100% that they did in fact get 28 mill.
The fact that neither of these dates are known is strange for a deal that large and tells me that it probably never happened. Because there would be absolutely no reason to try and hide that if it did...
Most companies do public press releases when it happens becase it's a big deal.
http://www.petzetakis.gr/press_releases_news_30-01-08.html
can you proove that they didnt get anymoneyt?
28days dont woryr about it if they say the have enough money to work on it just let them be
Its impossible to prove a negative, I’m not sure if you will be capable of appreciating this concept so I will simply ask you a question.
Can you or anyone prove that they did get this money?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Claiming that a small independent MMO developer with no industry experience that has been producing an MMO for 7 years that is not in beta, has a limited target market appeal and has very little positive market exposure would receive such a relatively massive investment but make no public statement about it certainly is extraordinary.
As 28days and many other people who are knowledgeable about convertible bond loans has shown the so called “evidence” that the developers received millions of dollars of investment is unconfirmed and unsubstantiated at best
But anyone only using common sense looking at this issue who is rational and objective can see there is good reason to be skeptical.
I really wish the developers did get this huge amount of money to help them finish the game quicker and better, unfortunately that is wishful thinking considering the evidence available to support it.
Like someone pointed out before, it is most likely Aventurine is just using their past experience in producing War Game simulators to create a MMO.
I would assume they are indirectly funded by the EU or then by the military of a European country. This could be one of the main reasons for the delays as well. I mean if the main funders tell you to 'drop Darkfall indefinitely and work on this battlefield simulator', you do not have much choice.
Its impossible to prove a negative, I’m not sure if you will be capable of appreciating this concept so I will simply ask you a question.
Can you or anyone prove that they did get this money?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Claiming that a small independent MMO developer with no industry experience that has been producing an MMO for 7 years that is not in beta, has a limited target market appeal and has very little positive market exposure would receive such a relatively massive investment but make no public statement about it certainly is extraordinary.
As 28days and many other people who are knowledgeable about convertible bond loans has shown the so called “evidence” that the developers received millions of dollars of investment is unconfirmed and unsubstantiated at best
But anyone only using common sense looking at this issue who is rational and objective can see there is good reason to be skeptical.
I really wish the developers did get this huge amount of money to help them finish the game quicker and better, unfortunately that is wishful thinking considering the evidence available to support it.
I never said they did or didnt because we dont know
The question that we have to answer is do either of these company’s websites Razorwax or Aventurine
look anything like the sort of websites we would expect from a successful and professional company who receives funding from the EU or the military of any EU member or has any sort of experience or success at producing war game simulators.
Or any of the other speculations about Aventurines possible involvement with government military contracts.
The only “evidence” that any of these speculations are based on as far as I’m aware is Aventurines name appearing on a list of thousands of attendee’s for a convention or tradeshow one time.
Some pictures of the Aventurine company logo on a racing car in Greece at some time years ago was discovered, can we presume that aventurine is also partly financed by contracts for software suitable for the racing car applications?
I personally think it is quite an extraordinary leap of faith and wishful thinking to believe that they are so busy working on contracts for EU nation army’s or war simulators that they don’t have enough time to finish Darkfall, especially considering they have publicly stated that they are working on Darkfall full time and never mentioned any other projects.
The question that we have to answer is do either of these company’s websites Razorwax or Aventurine
look anything like the sort of websites we would expect from a successful and professional company who receives funding from the EU or the military of any EU member or has any sort of experience or success at producing war game simulators.
Or any of the other speculations about Aventurines possible involvement with government military contracts.
The only “evidence” that any of these speculations are based on as far as I’m aware is Aventurines name appearing on a list of thousands of attendee’s for a convention or tradeshow one time.
Some pictures of the Aventurine company logo on a racing car in Greece at some time years ago was discovered, can we presume that aventurine is also partly financed by contracts for software suitable for the racing car applications?
I personally think it is quite an extraordinary leap of faith and wishful thinking to believe that they are so busy working on contracts for EU nation army’s or war simulators that they don’t have enough time to finish Darkfall, especially considering they have publicly stated that they are working on Darkfall full time and never mentioned any other projects.
Most small defense industry companies do not even have websites.
**Posted in Error deleted **
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
If that’s what you have to believe to support this, unfortunately for you in reality a quick google search proves your statement as being completely false.
“small military simulation company”
After a few minutes of searching you can find many example's of what a small but successful and professional military software company’s website looks like.
Just one example "MetaVR real-time PC based 3d visual simulation"
or sci.uk.com - flight simulator training and military simulation
The question that we have to answer is do either of these company’s websites Razorwax or Aventurine
look anything like the sort of websites we would expect from a successful and professional company who receives funding from the EU or the military of any EU member or has any sort of experience or success at producing war game simulators.
Or any of the other speculations about Aventurines possible involvement with government military contracts.
The only “evidence” that any of these speculations are based on as far as I’m aware is Aventurines name appearing on a list of thousands of attendee’s for a convention or tradeshow one time.
Some pictures of the Aventurine company logo on a racing car in Greece at some time years ago was discovered, can we presume that aventurine is also partly financed by contracts for software suitable for the racing car applications?
I personally think it is quite an extraordinary leap of faith and wishful thinking to believe that they are so busy working on contracts for EU nation army’s or war simulators that they don’t have enough time to finish Darkfall, especially considering they have publicly stated that they are working on Darkfall full time and never mentioned any other projects.
What you personally think here is pretty much irrelevant. Based on this companies background I would say they are sticking true to type, and that in context they are very good at doing just what they see fit to.
Info will be available when they are ready and they see fit to release it.
From my perspective the website is functional but other than that I care little for it, what I care for is that they have a concept, design approach and will deliver what they say they will. In the context of the design to deliver partial features will be a mistake as the concept demands that the whole game is available at release else it just will not work.
If people are good they are always in demand and the indicated source of this companies expertise is very demanding and important, also an area where discussion would damage their integrity. Their approach to customer relations may not fit the normal profile, but then it is amazing how some people are just plain different.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Greek Military expo:
http://defendoryinternational.gr/list_2006.htm
Electronic Sports World Cup - seem to be the host for the Greek round of events if this thing actually exists:
http://www.eswc.com/nsp2008
Various pics (& a link to a google translated greek rally site) that seems to 99.9% confirm they do have some cash to sponsor:
http://www.shimmergloom.com/images/aventurine1.jpg
http://www.shimmergloom.com/images/aventurine2.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7649/img0349787687ni0.jpg
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=el&u=http://www.rally.gr/default.asp?menu_code=gr-news-more-article&article_id=7905&race_id=0&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=8&ct=result&prev=/search?q=tzortzis+s.a.+rally&hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&hs=Wf9&sa=G
Fampiatou Ismene
David Saber's CV - looks legitish and says he's worked for them in the past on modelling:
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:oqNA61jbR6YJ:www.davidsaber.com/new/david_saber_3d_character_animator_xsi_generalist_resume.txt+aventurine+gr&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=14&client=opera
http://www.mystifier.net/
The relevent excerpt from Mr. Saber's resume
NOVEMBER 2006 TO AUGUST 2007: DARKFALL, online multi player role playing video game
Work place: Aventurine, Athens, Greece, http://www.aventurine.gr/ .
Position: 3d character animator.
Tasks: animated humanoid and 4 legged creatures, skinned characters, animated particles for explosions.
Softwares used: 3dsMax 8 and especially the Character Studio part, XSI 6.
Client: Darkfall’s game publisher, game sold worldwide (see http://www.darkfallonline.com/ ).
Not sure why he says the client was “Darkfall’s game publisher” when they don’t have a publisher yet, presumably he was under the impression that Aventurine where self publishing at that time.
Not sure why he says “game sold world wide” perhaps he just simply wanted the position to sound more impressive, unless for some reason he is under the impression it has been.
More like his info explain to us that the game/project will have the ambition to be a world wide release.
Sorry to burst your bubble but that’s not true, the only requirement to attend “defendory international” is how much money you are willing to pay for floor space, what you actually exhibit on the floor space you have paid for is irrelevant when arranging your exhibit space.
This is a repost of an email someone sent to me.
Well take a look at this.... any company can attend that show.. and it only costs 850 Euro for Greek Nationals , or Greek companies to get floor space..
http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/gg144/cartezan/?action=view¤t=app1.jpg
^ theres the general application to attend..
I don't even have a company and they sent info inviting to come...
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Executive Director
DEFENDORY INTERNATIONAL
12, Neofitou Douka Str.
106 74 Athens - Greece
Tel: +30 210 722 4533
Fax: +30 210 722 0461
e-mail: rkourbanis@defendory.gr
Sorry to burst your bubble but that’s not true, the only requirement to attend “defendory international” is how much money you are willing to pay for floor space, what you actually exhibit on the floor space you have paid for is irrelevant when arranging your exhibit space.
This is a repost of an email someone sent to me.
Well take a look at this.... any company can attend that show.. and it only costs 850 Euro for Greek Nationals , or Greek companies to get floor space..
http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/gg144/cartezan/?action=view¤t=app1.jpg
^ theres the general application to attend..
I don't even have a company and they sent info inviting to come...
-----
Executive Director
DEFENDORY INTERNATIONAL
12, Neofitou Douka Str.
106 74 Athens - Greece
Tel: +30 210 722 4533
Fax: +30 210 722 0461
e-mail: rkourbanis@defendory.gr
If you attend something like this you have a product to sell. Cant understand that you go through such troubles as sending e-mails to strange persons you dont know neither want to do business with and the reason for it is to achieve some totally BS-response saying nothing?
Entrance fees, and that proves what?
Again sorry to burst your bubble but ASDsource.com is a free website allowing ANYBODY to add there company details, the actual credentials or capability’s of the company are not a criteria for the listing process.
Check for yourself and click on the Add / Modify your details tab and you can see how easy it is to do, as you can see Aventurine have opted for the free membership option.
Just because Aventurine or any other of the over ten thousand company’s that are listed on this website does not necessarily mean they are defiantly a successful and professional company offering defense related software and/or services.
Click on the visit company website button for Aventurine, oh that is pathetic, looks very amateurish and totally unprofessional, this is the antithesis of what a small but professional and successful or even moderately successful and competent defense contractors website looks like.
But lets look at the limited company information provided about there software and related services.
C4iS Which is an acronym for Command, Control, Communications, and computers information system.
Sounds impressive but actually means nothing, is there any evidence that they have ever provided any type of C4IS software or related services, No there is not.
GIS Which is an acronym for Geographic information system.
Again sounds impressive but actually means nothing, is there any evidence that they have ever provided any type of GIS software or related services, No there is not
HELNAV Wargame Center
Absolutely no idea what this is, Hellenic, Hellas, Helen, Helicopter?, Navigation, Navy, ?.
What ever it is its so obscure or vague I can only find it referenced on a small number of Gaming forums talking about the Aventurine listing on the ASDsource website, or the actual Aventurine S.A. listing on the ASDsource website.
Any form of search using either of the acronyms in combination with the company names of Aventurine or Aventurine S.A only finds the original listing on the ASDsource.com website or a small number of gaming forums talking about the Aventurine listing on the ASDsource website.
That obviously speaks for itself.
You guys can soon start working for New York Times.
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The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.