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The crafting mess
Rattrap
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,599
There has been a lot of post here , stating LOTRO crafting is a mess and worst part of the game.
Well , it is true.
Right now crafting is quite useless , materials are either hard to come by or not sold at all in AH , actually AH is not used at all , some products of craft are useless while other are just to costly to produce ....
All in all , crafting serves no purpose right now.
BUT
It is fun , it is at least good (in fun terms) as eq2 and wow crafting combined , and many people do it despite for it being useless (i know i do)
So crafting is broken - but it is not beyond the repair. Actually if anything can be fixed and tweaked it is crafting !
So I am looking forward to seeing it fixed , and I am sure it will be
Well , it is true.
Right now crafting is quite useless , materials are either hard to come by or not sold at all in AH , actually AH is not used at all , some products of craft are useless while other are just to costly to produce ....
All in all , crafting serves no purpose right now.
BUT
It is fun , it is at least good (in fun terms) as eq2 and wow crafting combined , and many people do it despite for it being useless (i know i do)
So crafting is broken - but it is not beyond the repair. Actually if anything can be fixed and tweaked it is crafting !
So I am looking forward to seeing it fixed , and I am sure it will be
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Comments
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Crafting is broken - I think most but the tunnel vision fanboies will admit that. The basic system of crafting is fine, but what is there and the prices, items, and availability leaves a whole bunch to be desired.
It is not just crafting, but some of the things that affect crafting, such as the Auction Hall (why did they do that??), limited to 20 selling slots (So I make up a bunch of parts needed by other classes, and I can only post about 1/3 of them??). It is the rarity of some crafting raws - 95% of the better recipes cannot be used because the base rare raw is almost impossible to get.
And what I predicted a while back is now happening - rare drops for crafting are now being farmed by high level characters. Oh yay.
Give it time, they'll have to sort it yes, but I hope they don't increase the number of sell slots just yet. Let the game bed in first and see how the in-game economy starts working out.
I've already noticed a lot of goods at vastly inflated prices.
I am sure Turbine is looking hard into tweaking it , and perhaps they wanted to start the game first and tweak it according to living player market.
And just BTW - did WoW crafting work ?
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
The main issue with LOTRO's crafting system at the moment is the same -- there really isn't any use for most of what is produced, since quest rewards and drops are almost always better. The exceptions to that are items that are at the tippity-top of the crafting pyramid, but that's a very expensive grind, which brings up the other issue.
Unlike WoW, where the cost of vendor-purchased crafting inputs was very small, in LOTRO the cost of vendor-purchased crafting inputs is very nigh in relative terms. This drives up the cost of leveling crafting quite a large bit. Couple that with the fact that the products produced are not really salable, and you end up with a terrific money sink. Turbine seems to want to keep it that way for the time being, as their main goal at this stage of the game's development is to keep inflation as low as possible by driving money out of the game in many ways.
And, also unlike WoW, the "consumables" part of the crafting situation is broken: potions are very, very expensive because they are expensive to make in terms of getting the materials, and there are a small number of players with the requisite profession (because it has been intentionally made very hard to level, precisely because Turbine does not want there to be a lot of potions available). So most folks who have a good supply of potions are either scholars themselves, or get them from a kinmate who is a scholar. As for food, the cost of production is very high, such that sales prices are high, and players are mostly reluctant to buy the food at this prices since the effects of the food are pretty short-lived when compared with what people are used to from other games. The cost side of cooking is being addressed in the June patch, apparently, but we shall have to see how it really works out.
I agree that money is easy to come by ... just roll an Explorer, collect materials, and sell them to other players, and you will be rolling in money. That's another problem with the system, really: Turbine concentrated all of the gathering skills in one profession (an Explorer can treat hides, collect and treat woods, and collect and refine ores), so that the money-making side of crafting is all concentrated in that profession. This is very imbalanced. Sure, Explorers do not get to make anything, but many players do not WANT to make anything, and the Explorer profession is like a money button for them and a kick in the teeth to crafter players ... that is, not only do crafter players face large money sinks, but they get to look at other non-crafter players who are making hand over fist in money by avoiding crafting and simply gathering materials. It's a double-whammy, and really at this point I can't see any incentive to craft. My characters are all Explorers, and I love making the money, but even I can see how the system is pretty imbalanced at the moment.
Like a government that applies taxes and restrictions on goods, game mechanic should prevent inflation by stopping high sales. It would be so easy to do this, devs have in mind what things cost, anyways. So a 10 stack of hides is 10 silver. You will get money for it, but won't get rich. Also people should be obliged to pay an income and wealth tax, so that personal riches are cut down periodically if they are not spent.
And just to prevent the flaming I already got once for saying this. NO, this is in no way dead-red-communist-talk. This works in practically all market driven economies, because economies collapse if you let all people gain their riches egocentrically and freely. We've seen this happen in history many many times.
A working economy of course needs more than this. It needs demand (which is supplied by item decay), it needs interdependency (which pracically needs crafted items to be absolutely useful and NECESSARY) and it needs pricing policy... but the latter alone would provide fair prices and fun crafting for everyone...
Meridion
I myself am explorer. Because i far more enjoy gathering than crafting. And although the stories of making huge money as explorer are
not very true , i can see this become an issue in future (right now noboduy is buying nothing in AH , including raw materials)
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Well i have done quite a bit of crafting.Some of the issues are age old mmorpg problems
ok for instance you are a weaponsmith
After you get thru a tier you are forced to actually have the adventure level to mine in other areas or be fast at sneaking around.Only other option is to buy it from auction which is way overpriced.
And you will NEVER get much money from crafting unless you master that tier because proficency in a tier = worse then common drops or solo quest rewards.
You need a horrible amount of ore to master and it gets worse as you move to next tier.Then you start getting added resources to smelt which can cost a good penny such as coal at 2s+ which might not seems like much but if aiming for master you might go thru easily 500 of them which is 1g!
Then there is drop recipes which might seems nice and all but the added item often invloves a name elite mob way higher then you.
Its basically needs a lot of reviewing because as it stands it seems they expect you to get a high adventure level to be able to even afford mastering tiers and getting parts.
If you go into crafting then make sure you advance your adventure level at a much faster pace!
I myself am explorer. Because i far more enjoy gathering than crafting. And although the stories of making huge money as explorer are
not very true , i can see this become an issue in future (right now noboduy is buying nothing in AH , including raw materials)
It's funny because on my NA server, materials of all tiers are still being pretty briskly purchased in the AH. It's easy for a stack of 50 bronze ingots, for example, to go for 100s. As an experiment I rolled an alt last week and made her an explorer and did not give her any twink money from my main. By the time she reached level 15 she had just under 1g. It's a money button right now compared to any other profession, at least on the NA servers it is.
Armoursmithing and jewelry making are both good and not really broken. (well except maybe for the profit levels) But it works really well if you have a kinship member making items for everyone and in return everyone supports them. I got 2 of the 17 vitality purple level 30ish rings from our guild jeweler for free and to help him I send him all the gold I mine. Our guild armormsmith has made numerous heavy plate items for people in the guild, I got level 30ish leggings with 151 armor and +15 agility from him. Another one of our guildies makes us all morale and power potions.
Now I am the guild weaponsmith and I can't keep up with quest/item drops. Even my mastery level crafted items aren't an upgrade over quest items or drops. Or if it might be a slight upgrade it wouldn't be worth the cost of the rare item to make them. I currently am a Master Artisan prospecter (almost a grand master Prospector) and I am a master expert weaponsmith. Yes I can make weapons but most of the items I can make just aren't worth it. I would love to see them boost the mastery items I can make to be a little better then quest rewards. That way it is at least worth getting them.
And don't get me started on the economy. People are driving the prices up quickly and it is just plain silly. 900s for 50 rich iron ore. 2g for 50 dwarf-iron ore. What turbine should do is implement price levels on items. Or raise the amount of ore that each node produces.
But all in all crafting works really well for kinships in my experience. When you attempt to use crafting for profit though or to deal with the general populous then that is where it is broken.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Some of you couldn't be any more wrong. I currently am level 41 on Arkenstone, and I'm a master artisan metalsmith and I can tell you right now that the purple armor for a particular LEVEL RANGE beats almost any other armor you can get off a mob that I've seen.
My equipment is VERY good for my level. Having full Study Westernesse purple armor is pretty much better than MOST, not all armor that you can get for that particular level.
And for those that are saying that crafting is useless and you can't make any money at it, I can make 2g per piece of Study Westernesse, and have it sell within an hour of posting it on the auction....and I play on one of the newer servers Arkenstone.
That is possibly the worst idea I have heard yet. No, it is for SURE the worst idea.
Your loaf of bread example makes no sense. Nobody would buy it - and that has NOTHING to do with price fixing.
Inflation has nothing to do with "high sales" (I assume you mean high prices). You have the cart before the horse.
And it does NOT work in "market driven economies" because price fixing is anti market driven. You are contradicting yourself.
And as far as devs having an idea of what things cost - well what is the cost of an ultra rare drop? Yup - it's zero.
Price fixing has NEVER worked, in or out of games.
And that is THE key problem. Just about the only thing being bought or sold is crafting raws.
I just looked, and there are 87 purple recipes for sale for rare weapons. But there is not ONE single purple weapon, or one single purple rare raw for sale.
Nobody is making the common non-rare stuff, or if they are making it for skillups like me, they just sell it to the vendors. Only the rare items are worth selling, and the raws for them are not available. I just sold 22 Yew bows to the vendor because there are about 50 listed on AH - a couple even below vendor buy price.
I have a master artisan tailor and master artisan jeweler.
Jeweler is doing great, nice items i can make that fil the holes left by the quest rewards. Some great items.
Tailoring on the other hand is horrible. The amount of hides it takes to make a single item, is over the top. Consider also that you typically need 2 sets of the hides to get one Critial or purple item and sheesh.
I belive they are taking a look at crafting, until then its simply a money sink but can be fun to make certain items that you desire for yourself or guildies etc.
I think they just need to review :
1. the itemization of the tiers of crafted items ( vs quest and drop )
2. Materials requirements
Some combination of the above would make things pretty nice.
They are not far off.
-Allegria
And where do you get the rare raws for those armor?
And money is not really the main problem, the problem is that almost nothing is for sale except the generic stuff.
My biggest gripe comes with the single use recipes. They require a specific drop to complete that can be very difficult to find. The item created is sub par for anything its level. Turbine needs to increase the valus of these recipes and items crafted from them.
The other gripe I have is the crafted armor looks blah and in many cases very similar to each other.
It seems the crafting system is going to go the way WoW did with only a couple viable professions beyond gathering. Jewelcrafting and Scholar seem to be the only ones worthwhile.
Triston Master Carbine/Master Swords (SWG Eclipse)
Triston 29 Warden (EQ2 Permafrost)
Weland 70 Hunter (WoW Hellscream)
Suidan 36 Cleric (Vanguard Flamehammer)
Suidan 50 Champion (LOTR Gladden)
*Shrugs* I do agree the auction house needs a bit more tweaking though.
Can't make bracelets. For some reason they left bracelets and earrings out
However rings rock. The rings i am making, or have been making since Tier 1 have been better than anything u can find quested or dropped. Typically i make high vitality rings / high will rings or a will / might / vit mix. In fact i can never make enough of em.
For example, my new hot item is a lvl 38 ring with 23 vit / 23 will / 10 might. Great for champion / burglar / guardian.
In the artisan teir necklaces are coming back as well, i am making many for ppl with a mixture of might and agility and vitality.
From what i have seen, the best vocations are Metalsmith and jeweler when u consider the value of the items you make compared to drop and quested.
In the jeweler profession rings are the hot item for sure.
My tailor however, is in sad shape. The only tier that made any sense for me was lvl 21 purple mdeium armor i could make. The stats were like 14 vitality for a chest, 14 agi for legs, 14 agi for hands. Those stats, are far and above anything you will find dropped or quested until your mid 30s. Problem is, the high 20s armor ( lvl 27) and low 30s armor ( lvl 31 ) even with crit purple items do not hvae stats as good as the lvl 21, of course the armor is better in armor value but, lets face it stats sell.
Given that, they really need to take a look at the itemization of crafted gear again which might mean a nerf for that sweet lvl 21 armor .,
-Allegria
And money is not really the main problem, the problem is that almost nothing is for sale except the generic stuff.
Go to http://www.axiomfiles.com/Files/138938/components.html for a list and locations of where each rare item can be found to make the purple rare final product.
On Arkenstone, there is quite a few finished rare and non-rare items all over the Auction House.
The thing is the quest rewards are so good that it's pointless to buy anything crafted by other people unless it's from those one-use rare crafting recipes that are random rare drops off mobs. There aren't any crafting resources on sale on the AH that's because most people are using them for grinding up their own crafting, while crafting is "useless" it's still a fun diversion to do while you are not adventuring. Another main problem is that the rare recipes all require rare drops off elite mobs that are almost impossible to solo even if you are several levels above them and the item that the rare reciepe + rare material produces is subpar to quest rewards -- this is a GOOD system however they need to improve the items produced to be slightly better than what quest rewards give.
Turbine needs to seriously fix some of the more broken crafting vocations (like farming/cooking) if they want people to take it seriously or it turns into another WoW cloned crafting system where crafting is worthless unless you grind it to max level first. Also scholar vocation is sooo expensive right now to level up u need serious money investments to make it worthwhile.
A good solution to making crafting worth it is to either 1.) tone down quest rewards a bit 2.) leave the quest rewards alone, but improve rare crafted items a little bit 3.) leave both alone but instead change the crafted items to fill in the equipment gaps not provided by quest rewards. One of the things I noticed is that the quest rewards provide ample amounts of leg, rings, gloves, boots, weapon rewards but it rarely provide chest, armband, helm pieces.