No mmorpg will ever again reach the numbers wow did...unless they do something remarkably different that will attract more players to the scene...mmo marget is soo saturated that it isnt even funny.
If WoW were considered an empire, which for all intents and purposes it is, then you must conclude that it will eventually fall. All empires come to and end. But will it be an empire like Alexander the Great's which ended with his death or like the Roman Empire which lasted for centuries? I think that all depends on future games.
I quoted Kishe's post because I was ready to disagree with it vehemently, but then he qualified it by saying "unless they do something remarkably different." That's probably true. MMO gamers are savvy enough to know not to flock to another one that does what has alreay been beaten to death. But the MMO genre is very young and a lot of improvements can still be made. So I think another WoW or even a WoW+ is possible. As far as the market being saturated, it all depends on how popular gaming gets. There was a time when the number of gamers didn't even approach the number of people who go to movies. Now gamers rival moviegoers in numbers and will soon pass them. So if the market continues to attract people, then we could well see WoW numbers or better in the future.
I know of a guild of 200+ that left WoW for Vangaurd....
Need I say more?
Hmm Yeah you do need to say more,i knew somebody was going to comment on this.Think you need to explore some more forums to realize it just isn't my guild who is leaving for one or the other..Yeah.Yeah, well forums like this also have ratings which ranks games like CoH and DaoC over WoW, even though their subscriber base is a fly compared to WoW, so that right there tells you not to take forums seriously when it comes to predicting a games popularity.
And food coinsures regularly rank other establishments higher then the most popular restaurant chain. Claiming that something is the best on the grounds it’s the most popular is a flat out logical fallacy, the conclusion does not follow logically from the argument.
To everyone else. If someone’s opinion, anyone’s opinion is to be of anyone’s opinion, is to be of any value to you, you need to consider the source. This site is typically frequented by western MMO fans that are veterans of multiple games and fans of the genre in general. They also lean towards the casual/semi-casual.
If you fit this description then there is a good chance the rankings on this site will provide you with a very useful source of information if you take some steps to understand the different sub-genre’s involved.
If you do not fit this description, then of course the rankings are not that useful to you. For example, say a fan of anything Blizzard, who loves the *craft series and doesn’t really care for MMO’s in general then you are better of going to a Blizzard fan site for your information and recommendations.
I keep hearing that over and over again, and there is always someone that for some reason has to compare the gaming market to the food market.
Lets take a REAL good look at what is going on.
WoW is clearly the best western MMO, it received the highest reviews and a huge amount of awards. This game has the largest playerbase. The Lineage series are widely considered to be the best asian MMORPG's. And both of those game have the largest subscriber base in the asian market.
lets take it one step further. Gears of War is arguably the best Xbox360 game avaible. It received many awards, high scores on reviews. And what do you know, Gears of War is most succesful Xbox360 game. Same thing with Halo.
Its quite clear that playerbase and quality are connected.
Will WoW go down, no. The thing is WoW has done as well as it has because there lack of options at this point. Most MMO blow chunks, WoW is probably the best MMO out on the market. Can AOC and WAR go head to head with WoW, who knows. The fact is there going to have to have made a pretty impressvie game and they will have to have an almost flawless launch to be able to go head to head with WoW. The problem with MMO is they have become stagnate, they have become less about content and story line and creativity and more about raiding. I think a lot of players are starting to wake up and are starting to get tired of every thing being centered around raiding. Is raiding fun, with out a doubt but like all things to much of something can ruin that thing. Right now WoW is it cause its the only thing out besides City of Heroes thats actually worth even playing. AoC and WAR will come out and players will flock to it in hordes, this is the way it goes with MMO. In time players will go one of three directions, the first is some will head back to WoW, second some will head off and try other MMO or stop playing for a while, third is they will stay with WAR or AOC depending on what there playing. This is the way it goes. WoW sub numbers will go down, it was only a matter of time till it did. Will this kill WoW, not by a long shot. Will any one be able to out do WoW in sub and sales in general, who knows. I remember every one saying the same thing about EQ, that no one would beat how much money EQ brought in, yet WoW has done it. So for any one to say that no MMO can beat WoW record breaking sales is just wrong, it wont be easy but it is possable. Thats my opinion any way.
I feel better that I am not the only one that thinks this way.
I keep hearing that over and over again, and there is always someone that for some reason has to compare the gaming market to the food market.
Lets take a REAL good look at what is going on.
WoW is clearly the best western MMO, it received the highest reviews and a huge amount of awards. This game has the largest playerbase. The Lineage series are widely considered to be the best asian MMORPG's. And both of those game have the largest subscriber base in the asian market.
lets take it one step further. Gears of War is arguably the best Xbox360 game avaible. It received many awards, high scores on reviews. And what do you know, Gears of War is most succesful Xbox360 game. Same thing with Halo.
Its quite clear that playerbase and quality are connected.
Compare it to some other market if you like. The result is the same, most popular doesn’t mean best.
BTW you do realize that your lead piece of evidence for WoW being the best MMO is that WoW is the best MMO? And your next point was that because WoW won some awards it should win all awards. This are two prime examples of circular logic.
I keep hearing that over and over again, and there is always someone that for some reason has to compare the gaming market to the food market.
Lets take a REAL good look at what is going on.
WoW is clearly the best western MMO, it received the highest reviews and a huge amount of awards. This game has the largest playerbase. The Lineage series are widely considered to be the best asian MMORPG's. And both of those game have the largest subscriber base in the asian market.
lets take it one step further. Gears of War is arguably the best Xbox360 game avaible. It received many awards, high scores on reviews. And what do you know, Gears of War is most succesful Xbox360 game. Same thing with Halo.
Its quite clear that playerbase and quality are connected.
Compare it to some other market if you like. The result is the same, most popular doesn’t mean best.
BTW you do realize that your lead piece of evidence for WoW being the best MMO is that WoW is the best MMO? And your next point was that because WoW won some awards it should win all awards. This are two prime examples of circular logic.
I'm not the one comparing it to another market, you are.
And here, I shall explain it in greater detail.
WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by lomiller Originally posted by Gameloading I keep hearing that over and over again, and there is always someone that for some reason has to compare the gaming market to the food market.Lets take a REAL good look at what is going on.WoW is clearly the best western MMO, it received the highest reviews and a huge amount of awards. This game has the largest playerbase. The Lineage series are widely considered to be the best asian MMORPG's. And both of those game have the largest subscriber base in the asian market.lets take it one step further. Gears of War is arguably the best Xbox360 game avaible. It received many awards, high scores on reviews. And what do you know, Gears of War is most succesful Xbox360 game. Same thing with Halo.Its quite clear that playerbase and quality are connected.
Compare it to some other market if you like. The result is the same, most popular doesnt mean best.
BTW you do realize that your lead piece of evidence for WoW being the best MMO is that WoW is the best MMO? And your next point was that because WoW won some awards it should win all awards. This are two prime examples of circular logic. I'm not the one comparing it to another market, you are.
And here, I shall explain it in greater detail.
WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
You've nailed it.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
And yet, none of this means WOW is the best. It just means its the most popular. Review are mostly written by clueless fools who've never reached the endgame of any MMORPG...so they can be totally discounted, awards from who and for what? Who gave the award givers the authority to award anything?
There are so many things WOW is not the best at....at least in the opinions of some people... such as best pvp system, or best graphics, or best control system, or best end game, etc, etc..... sure they are all personal opinions, so there really is no such thing as "best".
In the end.... WOW is the best at getting subs.... that you can't dispute..but that's as far as I'm willing to concede.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
WOW will go down if, and only if, better self-sustaining games come out. As new popular releases emerge, WOW will certainly take a hit in subscription numbers (as we saw when LOTRO released), but whether or not this is sustained depends upon the quality of these newer games.
LOTRO is (arguably) bland. I have seen folks talk about leaving WOW, then returning later after playing a month or two of LOTRO.
Warhammer will have to be as good as its hype, if it's going to do the trick, and hopefully not end up as another DnL/Vanguard fiasco.
Blizzard is HIGHLY known for only making 1 expack for their games. THATS IT. they may release a big patch with content but thats about it. I wouldn't be surprised if we never saw another expack for wow again. WOW is dieing no doubt about it. it was fun while it was good. "all good things must come to and end."
Yes, but this time we are talking about a different animal: their very first MMORPG and that’s another kind of universe. Also consider that several Blizzard people, high up their ranks have said that they aim to release several expansion packs and even aim at one every year. They have also said that they considered lots of different races before ending up with the Draeneis and Bloodelves, but would not go into details about the ones they considered since it was very likely that some of them could be introduced into the game at some point in the future.
Wow is, like it or not, a historical game. It’s the game that really made MMORPG become available to the casual mass of players. Everyone knows someone that play or played WoW. SWG wanted to be that, but failed and WoW made it. So for a generation of players WoW is the first MMORPG love. And you never forget your first love do you?
My first game was SWG and god how I miss that game - pre-CU that is! but thats another story: I play wow now and love it. I would have played both if they had not done what they did to us in SWG. (And if any SWG developer out there reads this: you guys never really knew what gold you sat on! What a fantastic game it was. Not just a game, but a society! The best ever! And if you had ice in your stommach and did not run after wows playerbase. SWG would probably had something near a million players today... I still cry when I think about the beautiful game and community that got destroyed by the ill fated NGE)
Anyways.. back to the topic :P
WoW is NOT going to die anytime soon- I am sure about that. You have to consider that it peaked with near 9 million players! Most MMORPGS was considered successful if they had 200 000 players! And that means that most games can make money with about 200 000 players. Imagine what Blizzard has made with WoW when it comes to money! And that also means that most investments made during development IS paid so even if the sky fell down and wow dropped from 7-8ish million players and down to 200 000, they would still make money and be around.
I am sure they have something in their sleeves too. BC, got fantastic reviews and has been a best selling product ever since it was released, and matter what people claim - it is a success. Blizzard knew exactly what they did when they released it and they probably knows exactly what to do with their next expansion. We are talking about one if not the most succesfull game developer ever. And yes, they look at their competitors and like most business (afterall that is what they are, a company) they will never release EVERYTHING, but as little as they can, just to have all goodies ready for the day when the competition really gets tough. So I would not be surprised to see lots of new things including new races and classes around the time when Warhammer or Age of Conan is released.
Those that say WoW is dying. Well, SWG is still around and that game is older and has had several serious "heart attacks".. but its still here. UO is still here. EQ2 is still here. They are all games that never had more than 600 000 players. UO is 10 years this year ! So WoW is probably here 10 years from now. It probably have seen upgrades and lots of expansions, but its going to be around. I mean if any game will be around of the MMORPGS it is going to be WoW. Because its pop culture. Its a historical game. Its a living legend.
Blizzard also has a record of supporting their game basically forever. Just look at the games played at Battlenet. Warcraft 2, Diablo, Diablo 2. They go on forever.
So.. In my opinion: No its not going to die. It is the most successfull MMORPG ever, and will not be beaten unless a very shiny Starwars MMORPG suddenly makes a glorious figure on the consoles (and its unlikely to happen).
And it has such a massive amount of players that even if they lots 70 % of them, they would still be considered highly successful by the MMORPG standards and make money.
There will be loads of MMORPGS dying before WoW, and so far most of them are still here, some even 10 years and going strong. Not to mention that has had to call the 911 for MMORPGS quite a few times. But they are here and so will WoW be.
And the word "WoW killer", and about games like Age of Conanan and Warhammer. Well, time has proven again and again that even the most over hyped game might not be what we hope it would have been, so please wait, play it and let time tell what will happen. We all remember Dark and Light, Vanguard and not to mention SWG that was going to be the messiah of MMORPGS. The years to develop, and the amount of money it takes to really make a streamlined game like WoW is so huge that very few can afford to do it.
Then again, I doubt that WoW will die anytime soon. I actually I think that it will be around in 2017 as it was in 2007. And by then, the resources needed to operate the game will also be very small. So it can probably live with 50 000 diehard fans :P
WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
And yet, none of this means WOW is the best. It just means its the most popular. Review are mostly written by clueless fools who've never reached the endgame of any MMORPG...so they can be totally discounted, awards from who and for what? Who gave the award givers the authority to award anything?
There are so many things WOW is not the best at....at least in the opinions of some people... such as best pvp system, or best graphics, or best control system, or best end game, etc, etc..... sure they are all personal opinions, so there really is no such thing as "best".
In the end.... WOW is the best at getting subs.... that you can't dispute..but that's as far as I'm willing to concede.
Yes it DOES mean WoW is the best MMORPG. Big review websites like Gamespot have people live and breath video games. Rating video games is their profession. They do know what the heck they are talking about. It seems you fall in the usual "Well I don't like the game, so the reviewer must be wrong". instead of simply accepting the fact that you can't recognise its quality.
I think Blizzard won't really care. They have made their money over the past 3 years, even if AoC & WAR take half the usercount, they are still making a extremely nice profit. The production of the game has been paid, so aslong as income is greater than server costs and support, WoW still has a long future.
I expect the days of new servers will come to an end, and instead we'll see merges, but this may be a good thing anyway as the community should become more stable. A lot of people have working hard in WoW, and won't leave no matter what. Sense of loss I guess.
I'm not the one comparing it to another market, you are.
And here, I shall explain it in greater detail.
WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
This old coconut again. Best, is a subjective thing. What I've found as the best mmo may not be the most popular. To perhaps illustrate, if I was to ask you what is the best racing game? What would you choose?
I'm not the one comparing it to another market, you are. And here, I shall explain it in greater detail. WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
This old coconut again. Best, is a subjective thing. What I've found as the best mmo may not be the most popular. To perhaps illustrate, if I was to ask you what is the best racing game? What would you choose?
WOW, because they have a race track in 1000Neddels, and all other race game from this day are a clone of WOW becuase of it, hehehe
I'm not the one comparing it to another market, you are. And here, I shall explain it in greater detail. WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
This old coconut again. Best, is a subjective thing. What I've found as the best mmo may not be the most popular. To perhaps illustrate, if I was to ask you what is the best racing game? What would you choose?
There is such a thing as Best. If it was merely a subjective thing then there would be no such thing as "ratings" or "scores".
I'm not the one comparing it to another market, you are. And here, I shall explain it in greater detail. WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
This old coconut again. Best, is a subjective thing. What I've found as the best mmo may not be the most popular. To perhaps illustrate, if I was to ask you what is the best racing game? What would you choose?
There is such a thing as Best. If it was merely a subjective thing then there would be no such thing as "ratings" or "scores".
Gameloading you've made some damn good arguments but you are dealing with someone who I fear has a entrenched and unmovable negative opinion toward WoW. Logic and reasoning will not work here. It's like arguing with a religious fanatic. The mere fact that you are coming up with facts and well reasoned factual arguments won't mean a damn thing to this person because they are not going to listen at all.
They've made up their mind already to them WoW sucks no matter what you may say and the world is flat no matter how many pictures you take from outer space that show otherwise. Everything else which proves that they might be wrong is either a "evil" conspiracy designed to destroy their world view of things or subjective in meaning no matter how concrete the word you or the industry reviewers may use.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
And yet, none of this means WOW is the best. It just means its the most popular. Review are mostly written by clueless fools who've never reached the endgame of any MMORPG...so they can be totally discounted, awards from who and for what? Who gave the award givers the authority to award anything?
There are so many things WOW is not the best at....at least in the opinions of some people... such as best pvp system, or best graphics, or best control system, or best end game, etc, etc..... sure they are all personal opinions, so there really is no such thing as "best".
In the end.... WOW is the best at getting subs.... that you can't dispute..but that's as far as I'm willing to concede.
Eh? So are you going to tell us what the best MMO is? The fact, is WoW is the only MMO that can be quantitively judged to be the best, overall. Of course people have different opinions, and some will not consider it the best - but this is true for all things. If history had to choose 'the best' MMO, right now, what do you think it would be? it would be WoW for a variety of factors, and not just popularity.
If it were just popularity that people judged WoW on, then yes, it would be a very poor way of saying "this is the best game". Yet even if you don't like it, it is not such a giant leap of faith to consider WoW to be the best MMO, when you consider things like - subscriptions, growth, awards, reviews, impact on culture, quality of the client, 3D realization of the world, control fluidity, widespread appeal to many different playstyles.
This train of thought will be unpopular here, on MMORPG.com, because people come here mostly to bitch about MMOs, and boy, do you guys like to bitch about WoW. So yeah, it's unpopular to regard WoW highly around here, but it would take a very close-minded individual to discount the wealth of critical accolades, sales figures, market share, growth, culture... it just blasts everything else away.
How else could you determine a game to be the best? By having the fewest jaded burnout cases troll about it? Because that's all that happens here when people bash WoW. No MMO will be liked by everyone. And claiming one MMO to be "better" than all the rest in all other aspects is foolish. But if you have to pick "the best" using the only reliable indicators we have, instead of opinions or emotions of a bitter forum minority, there is only one choice.
Some people reckon the Beatles are the best band ever. They're not my favourite band, I think the Rolling Stones are overall, a better band (not to mention the fact they're still actually making music). BUT I'M NOT GOING TO GET UPPITY JUST BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE THINK THE BEATLES ARE THE BEST BAND EVER!
Don't get uppity when people claim that WoW is the best, it doesn't make your favourite games suddenly crap, and it doesn't mean you will enjoy WoW more than those games, it's simply what the majority of MMO gamers think, and they have voted with their wallets.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Blizzard is HIGHLY known for only making 1 expack for their games. THATS IT. they may release a big patch with content but thats about it. I wouldn't be surprised if we never saw another expack for wow again. WOW is dieing no doubt about it. it was fun while it was good. "all good things must come to and end."
Man, i have put so much time and effort into my toons that i would have a hard time leaving for another mmo. I believe in Blizzard that they are not even close to bein done yet. Alot of content still to be implemented and they havent even introduced Red weapons or gear yet. I do, however, feel that if you cannot find nine other compitent players of different mix of classes, then after hitting 70 becomes a lil boring. OK lets face it...alot boring. I dislike logging on, to sit in Shattrath wondering what to do. So i create and lvl yet another toon. The guilds on my server...hmm what to call them. 2 of which are good and in SSC. All else are farming Kara and thats if you can get a group of 10 to be on and willing. I have been considering another game. Who wants to do UBRS anymore? Wanna do the quest line for Onyxia just to see that when you hit 60 you can get enough to go. Then just to find out that you have a replacement for that T2 helm at 70? Molten Core is deserted along with Black Wing Lair. Naxx? I still have a few of the shards for the Legendary staff that i cant remember what its called cause i have no chance in seeing it ever. Yet i still will keep my chin up and remain loyal to Blizzard. Hopefully they re-do the requirements for T1 and T2 and make it so up and coming people dont have to put together a 40 man raid to earn them. Dont get me started on my thoughts on the creation of T0.5. The amount of gold and effort to aquire such a worthless piece of equipement that you will replace in outland. Or better yet at the AH when you hit a higher lvl. Srry just my thoughts....
You have to expect some content to become obsolete with new expansions. This is why one of the reasons I don't like a raiding endgame. It requires far to much time per session and no one wants to put in the effort for such things when new raid content comes out. They just move on to the next raid content. If the content was for small groups it would require less time to get the items and do the dungeons so people would still consider them worthwhile to go back even if there was new content available.
WoW will be around for a long time. EQ and UO are still hanging around long after their prime. WoW is going to get reduced numbers over time like any other good game due to people becoming bored with the game and wanting something new and differnt.
Alright. Lets look at DAOC, this paticular game had a very large following at its prime, correct? It has combined servers, correct? This is a trend. As new MMOs come out they will pull subscriptions away from the current "Kings". The people who are going to stay with an MMO are the ones who are getting the most out of it, i.e. end game raiders. The underlings though will be like well i missed this from release so naturally thats why im behind so might as well go to this other game where i can start fresh and be at the top of the heap. Whether that is the reason for not being in a guild that is pushing content or not is reguardless. The fact is that they are going to be tempted to jump games. This however is not the only reason for leaving a game. I was an AVID WOW player to say the least morning noon or night i was on whenever i could be on and raiding a good majority of that time. I had been through Naxx completely and such before the exspansion had released and had began to notice a trend, raid nightly to down the bosses get them to farm then set raid nights. Wash rinse repeat. ALWAYS worked like this. I figured with the new raid sizes and more interactive dungeons that BC was going to bring us it would not be so tedious. I was wrong, extremely wrong. Nothing had changed in the least it was the same recipe as before. This grows incredibly tiresome and many will agree with me they want more something completely different. So i stopped playing end of story havent looked back since. Combined with underlings leaving do to lack of end game play and the end game players becoming bored with the same old same it will eventually cause a game to lose more and more subscriptions and then causing the company to merge servers. Does this mean the game dies, absolutely not. So long as there is a server to play on many people will still play the game, what i like to call the true fanboys of the game. Let me take you back to DAOC, being so enthralled with WoW for awhile I had forgotten about it then a friend of mine (Drunken Dwarf kek) told me to come play with him and my mind exploded. First thing i thought was OMFG that game still has servers, and the truth was yes with several hundred people on each server. How long has DAoC been out? 6 Years? and it still has not completely died. WoW will be the same way, in time it will fall by the way side only having truely avid players still playing and keeping it alive. Another game will rise, not saying it will be AoC or WAR or even in a few years Warhammer 40k when that releases, and another shall fall and the trend shall be never ending. Remember the end of one game really isnt an end its more of a nursing home and the game you choose to be your favorite shall suffer the same fate. There simply isnt enough content to keep a game alive forever. So let go if you want or hold on cause i can assure that in the next 5-8 years WoW will still have servers up for it but do not expect to have many people playing by that point.
Every MMO will die but the only cause is time. (certain variables will aid in how quick time will have its way)
Man, i have put so much time and effort into my toons that i would have a hard time leaving for another mmo. I believe in Blizzard that they are not even close to bein done yet. Alot of content still to be implemented and they havent even introduced Red weapons or gear yet. I do, however, feel that if you cannot find nine other compitent players of different mix of classes, then after hitting 70 becomes a lil boring. OK lets face it...alot boring. I dislike logging on, to sit in Shattrath wondering what to do. So i create and lvl yet another toon. The guilds on my server...hmm what to call them. 2 of which are good and in SSC. All else are farming Kara and thats if you can get a group of 10 to be on and willing. I have been considering another game. Who wants to do UBRS anymore? Wanna do the quest line for Onyxia just to see that when you hit 60 you can get enough to go. Then just to find out that you have a replacement for that T2 helm at 70? Molten Core is deserted along with Black Wing Lair. Naxx? I still have a few of the shards for the Legendary staff that i cant remember what its called cause i have no chance in seeing it ever. Yet i still will keep my chin up and remain loyal to Blizzard. Hopefully they re-do the requirements for T1 and T2 and make it so up and coming people dont have to put together a 40 man raid to earn them. Dont get me started on my thoughts on the creation of T0.5. The amount of gold and effort to aquire such a worthless piece of equipement that you will replace in outland. Or better yet at the AH when you hit a higher lvl. Srry just my thoughts....
You do realize WoW is becoming more and more like EQ 1? Item/Armor/Weapon wise WoW will have as much as EQ 1, but then again most of the stuff is either the same ( damage/delay-Armor Class) with different stats and looks...But as more and more land is added more and more old zones will be deserted or abandoned...They are following the same footsteps EQ went and will soon diminish, but that doesnt change the fact that WoW was the MMO with the most players at one point...We all know that every game will lose players but WoW was simply one of the best MMO (from other people of course)
You have to expect some content to become obsolete with new expansions. This is why one of the reasons I don't like a raiding endgame. It requires far to much time per session and no one wants to put in the effort for such things when new raid content comes out. They just move on to the next raid content. If the content was for small groups it would require less time to get the items and do the dungeons so people would still consider them worthwhile to go back even if there was new content available. WoW will be around for a long time. EQ and UO are still hanging around long after their prime. WoW is going to get reduced numbers over time like any other good game due to people becoming bored with the game and wanting something new and differnt.
With a linear system, most of the game is obsolete.
If you have a progressive system, with level and gear cap, then nothing is obsolete or trivial ever. You can have a game that have the best helmets in the level 5 dungeon...all the good helmets drop there exclusively. Everyone above level 5 is level 5 in this dungeon. You can always add new helmets if you want, but always in this old dungeon. All other gear is grey and capped in this dungeon, so only the helmets are good items. Then in the level 10 dungeon, everyone above level 10 is level 10, and all the best shields are in this dungeon. Only the shield and the helmets are not greyed, so you have a freaking good reason to earn a helmet before coming here, it will help you. And so on with every zone. Having all the loot in the last dungeons is ridiculous IMO. Spreading it in all the dungeons, the lowbies dungeons as well, will spread the population. It will be very uber to be in a level 50 dungeon, while players would make fun in the dungeons they enjoy. Add new levels? Add new item slots. As simple as that.
Not to mention that Mr. Casual can rule and be freaking awesome and totally master a lowbie dungeon, nobody can outdo him. While Mr. Uber is trying to master the last dungeon as best as possible, with hunting in various dungeon and accomplishing various quests, at various levels. Adding a quest in an old dungeon can lead to a better item there, in that precise dungeon. You can add a new room, a new area, a new encounter in an old dungeon...nothing has to be static...was it hidden before, it is a new excavation, is it new monsters that move in, up to you. It is fun for Mr. Casual to see Mr. Uber comes in HIS dungeon and ask HIS help. And Mr. Uber can help Mr. Casual in 10 other dungeons later if he wants or care...so all is fine.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I'm not the one comparing it to another market, you are.
And here, I shall explain it in greater detail.
WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
If your logic was sound it would work wherever it’s applied. It *easy* to demonstrate this isn’t the case. Instead of fixing your logic you waste our time complaining and insisting no one ever demonstrate that the basic logic is flawed. Please stop doing this, it’s annoying, your logic is flawed face this fact and move on.
The whole bug up your *** is that WoW isn’t at the top of the reviews. Therefore you are saying that because WoW topes some reviews it must top all reviews. This is every bit as flawed as your previous “logic”.
What I think about this is that wow will most definetly NOT die, in reality very few MMOs could die and they'd have to be pretty sucky. WoW has a large fan base (old warcraft lovers and hardcore WoWers). Does WoW get old? Sure it does I used to be a hardcore raider and my toon is still in one of the top guilds, I got tired of the game in a way (raiding got to be repetitive) but the main reason why I quit as a raider was because I was playing wow so much that I slacked on my RL duties so enough was enough.
Of course people will leave for AoC, WAR, Tabula Rasa or other new MMOs, every MMO I dont care how good it is one day gets old and all the hype dies down, new games come out pvpers leave for a better pvp game and RPers go where they can have player housing etc etc but for raiders WoW is a pretty good game. I have seen people who raid like there is no tomorow and they have been at it since day one and they still love it.
WoW will always remain as a legend in the MMORPG world and will be used as an example.
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC -Playing WoW -Retired- SWG -Retired- EVE -Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled) - 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).
Comments
If WoW were considered an empire, which for all intents and purposes it is, then you must conclude that it will eventually fall. All empires come to and end. But will it be an empire like Alexander the Great's which ended with his death or like the Roman Empire which lasted for centuries? I think that all depends on future games.
I quoted Kishe's post because I was ready to disagree with it vehemently, but then he qualified it by saying "unless they do something remarkably different." That's probably true. MMO gamers are savvy enough to know not to flock to another one that does what has alreay been beaten to death. But the MMO genre is very young and a lot of improvements can still be made. So I think another WoW or even a WoW+ is possible. As far as the market being saturated, it all depends on how popular gaming gets. There was a time when the number of gamers didn't even approach the number of people who go to movies. Now gamers rival moviegoers in numbers and will soon pass them. So if the market continues to attract people, then we could well see WoW numbers or better in the future.
I keep hearing that over and over again, and there is always someone that for some reason has to compare the gaming market to the food market.
Lets take a REAL good look at what is going on.
WoW is clearly the best western MMO, it received the highest reviews and a huge amount of awards. This game has the largest playerbase. The Lineage series are widely considered to be the best asian MMORPG's. And both of those game have the largest subscriber base in the asian market.
lets take it one step further. Gears of War is arguably the best Xbox360 game avaible. It received many awards, high scores on reviews. And what do you know, Gears of War is most succesful Xbox360 game. Same thing with Halo.
Its quite clear that playerbase and quality are connected.
UO-EQ1-SWG-DAOC-WOW-EQ2-WAR-GW2-RIFT
I'm not the one comparing it to another market, you are.
And here, I shall explain it in greater detail.
WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
BTW you do realize that your lead piece of evidence for WoW being the best MMO is that WoW is the best MMO? And your next point was that because WoW won some awards it should win all awards. This are two prime examples of circular logic.
I'm not the one comparing it to another market, you are.
And here, I shall explain it in greater detail.
WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
You've nailed it.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
And yet, none of this means WOW is the best. It just means its the most popular. Review are mostly written by clueless fools who've never reached the endgame of any MMORPG...so they can be totally discounted, awards from who and for what? Who gave the award givers the authority to award anything?
There are so many things WOW is not the best at....at least in the opinions of some people... such as best pvp system, or best graphics, or best control system, or best end game, etc, etc..... sure they are all personal opinions, so there really is no such thing as "best".
In the end.... WOW is the best at getting subs.... that you can't dispute..but that's as far as I'm willing to concede.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
WOW will go down if, and only if, better self-sustaining games come out. As new popular releases emerge, WOW will certainly take a hit in subscription numbers (as we saw when LOTRO released), but whether or not this is sustained depends upon the quality of these newer games.
LOTRO is (arguably) bland. I have seen folks talk about leaving WOW, then returning later after playing a month or two of LOTRO.
Warhammer will have to be as good as its hype, if it's going to do the trick, and hopefully not end up as another DnL/Vanguard fiasco.
Yes, but this time we are talking about a different animal: their very first MMORPG and that’s another kind of universe. Also consider that several Blizzard people, high up their ranks have said that they aim to release several expansion packs and even aim at one every year. They have also said that they considered lots of different races before ending up with the Draeneis and Bloodelves, but would not go into details about the ones they considered since it was very likely that some of them could be introduced into the game at some point in the future.
Wow is, like it or not, a historical game. It’s the game that really made MMORPG become available to the casual mass of players. Everyone knows someone that play or played WoW. SWG wanted to be that, but failed and WoW made it. So for a generation of players WoW is the first MMORPG love. And you never forget your first love do you?
My first game was SWG and god how I miss that game - pre-CU that is! but thats another story: I play wow now and love it. I would have played both if they had not done what they did to us in SWG. (And if any SWG developer out there reads this: you guys never really knew what gold you sat on! What a fantastic game it was. Not just a game, but a society! The best ever! And if you had ice in your stommach and did not run after wows playerbase. SWG would probably had something near a million players today... I still cry when I think about the beautiful game and community that got destroyed by the ill fated NGE)
Anyways.. back to the topic :P
WoW is NOT going to die anytime soon- I am sure about that. You have to consider that it peaked with near 9 million players! Most MMORPGS was considered successful if they had 200 000 players! And that means that most games can make money with about 200 000 players. Imagine what Blizzard has made with WoW when it comes to money! And that also means that most investments made during development IS paid so even if the sky fell down and wow dropped from 7-8ish million players and down to 200 000, they would still make money and be around.
I am sure they have something in their sleeves too. BC, got fantastic reviews and has been a best selling product ever since it was released, and matter what people claim - it is a success. Blizzard knew exactly what they did when they released it and they probably knows exactly what to do with their next expansion. We are talking about one if not the most succesfull game developer ever. And yes, they look at their competitors and like most business (afterall that is what they are, a company) they will never release EVERYTHING, but as little as they can, just to have all goodies ready for the day when the competition really gets tough. So I would not be surprised to see lots of new things including new races and classes around the time when Warhammer or Age of Conan is released.
Those that say WoW is dying. Well, SWG is still around and that game is older and has had several serious "heart attacks".. but its still here. UO is still here. EQ2 is still here. They are all games that never had more than 600 000 players. UO is 10 years this year ! So WoW is probably here 10 years from now. It probably have seen upgrades and lots of expansions, but its going to be around. I mean if any game will be around of the MMORPGS it is going to be WoW. Because its pop culture. Its a historical game. Its a living legend.
Blizzard also has a record of supporting their game basically forever. Just look at the games played at Battlenet. Warcraft 2, Diablo, Diablo 2. They go on forever.
So.. In my opinion: No its not going to die. It is the most successfull MMORPG ever, and will not be beaten unless a very shiny Starwars MMORPG suddenly makes a glorious figure on the consoles (and its unlikely to happen).
And it has such a massive amount of players that even if they lots 70 % of them, they would still be considered highly successful by the MMORPG standards and make money.
There will be loads of MMORPGS dying before WoW, and so far most of them are still here, some even 10 years and going strong. Not to mention that has had to call the 911 for MMORPGS quite a few times. But they are here and so will WoW be.
And the word "WoW killer", and about games like Age of Conanan and Warhammer. Well, time has proven again and again that even the most over hyped game might not be what we hope it would have been, so please wait, play it and let time tell what will happen. We all remember Dark and Light, Vanguard and not to mention SWG that was going to be the messiah of MMORPGS. The years to develop, and the amount of money it takes to really make a streamlined game like WoW is so huge that very few can afford to do it.
Then again, I doubt that WoW will die anytime soon. I actually I think that it will be around in 2017 as it was in 2007. And by then, the resources needed to operate the game will also be very small. So it can probably live with 50 000 diehard fans :P
Give it another year or so. It'll have it's devoted fan-base, which will be arguably larger than other aged games' fan bases.
Even if they do a huge graphics revamp, it'll start to feel aged and old in another year or two, and people will gradually migrate to other games.
No such thing as a "<insert game here> killer".
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
And yet, none of this means WOW is the best. It just means its the most popular. Review are mostly written by clueless fools who've never reached the endgame of any MMORPG...so they can be totally discounted, awards from who and for what? Who gave the award givers the authority to award anything?
There are so many things WOW is not the best at....at least in the opinions of some people... such as best pvp system, or best graphics, or best control system, or best end game, etc, etc..... sure they are all personal opinions, so there really is no such thing as "best".
In the end.... WOW is the best at getting subs.... that you can't dispute..but that's as far as I'm willing to concede.
Yes it DOES mean WoW is the best MMORPG. Big review websites like Gamespot have people live and breath video games. Rating video games is their profession. They do know what the heck they are talking about. It seems you fall in the usual "Well I don't like the game, so the reviewer must be wrong". instead of simply accepting the fact that you can't recognise its quality.
I think Blizzard won't really care. They have made their money over the past 3 years, even if AoC & WAR take half the usercount, they are still making a extremely nice profit. The production of the game has been paid, so aslong as income is greater than server costs and support, WoW still has a long future.
I expect the days of new servers will come to an end, and instead we'll see merges, but this may be a good thing anyway as the community should become more stable. A lot of people have working hard in WoW, and won't leave no matter what. Sense of loss I guess.
This old coconut again. Best, is a subjective thing. What I've found as the best mmo may not be the most popular. To perhaps illustrate, if I was to ask you what is the best racing game? What would you choose?
This old coconut again. Best, is a subjective thing. What I've found as the best mmo may not be the most popular. To perhaps illustrate, if I was to ask you what is the best racing game? What would you choose?
WOW, because they have a race track in 1000Neddels, and all other race game from this day are a clone of WOW becuase of it, heheheUO-EQ1-SWG-DAOC-WOW-EQ2-WAR-GW2-RIFT
This old coconut again. Best, is a subjective thing. What I've found as the best mmo may not be the most popular. To perhaps illustrate, if I was to ask you what is the best racing game? What would you choose?
There is such a thing as Best. If it was merely a subjective thing then there would be no such thing as "ratings" or "scores".Gameloading you've made some damn good arguments but you are dealing with someone who I fear has a entrenched and unmovable negative opinion toward WoW. Logic and reasoning will not work here. It's like arguing with a religious fanatic. The mere fact that you are coming up with facts and well reasoned factual arguments won't mean a damn thing to this person because they are not going to listen at all.
They've made up their mind already to them WoW sucks no matter what you may say and the world is flat no matter how many pictures you take from outer space that show otherwise. Everything else which proves that they might be wrong is either a "evil" conspiracy designed to destroy their world view of things or subjective in meaning no matter how concrete the word you or the industry reviewers may use.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
WoW: received the most awards and best review and has a large playerbase. Those things are often (not always ofcourse, exceptions make the rule) connected, its that simple.
And yet, none of this means WOW is the best. It just means its the most popular. Review are mostly written by clueless fools who've never reached the endgame of any MMORPG...so they can be totally discounted, awards from who and for what? Who gave the award givers the authority to award anything?
There are so many things WOW is not the best at....at least in the opinions of some people... such as best pvp system, or best graphics, or best control system, or best end game, etc, etc..... sure they are all personal opinions, so there really is no such thing as "best".
In the end.... WOW is the best at getting subs.... that you can't dispute..but that's as far as I'm willing to concede.
Eh? So are you going to tell us what the best MMO is? The fact, is WoW is the only MMO that can be quantitively judged to be the best, overall. Of course people have different opinions, and some will not consider it the best - but this is true for all things. If history had to choose 'the best' MMO, right now, what do you think it would be? it would be WoW for a variety of factors, and not just popularity.
If it were just popularity that people judged WoW on, then yes, it would be a very poor way of saying "this is the best game". Yet even if you don't like it, it is not such a giant leap of faith to consider WoW to be the best MMO, when you consider things like - subscriptions, growth, awards, reviews, impact on culture, quality of the client, 3D realization of the world, control fluidity, widespread appeal to many different playstyles.
This train of thought will be unpopular here, on MMORPG.com, because people come here mostly to bitch about MMOs, and boy, do you guys like to bitch about WoW. So yeah, it's unpopular to regard WoW highly around here, but it would take a very close-minded individual to discount the wealth of critical accolades, sales figures, market share, growth, culture... it just blasts everything else away.
How else could you determine a game to be the best? By having the fewest jaded burnout cases troll about it? Because that's all that happens here when people bash WoW. No MMO will be liked by everyone. And claiming one MMO to be "better" than all the rest in all other aspects is foolish. But if you have to pick "the best" using the only reliable indicators we have, instead of opinions or emotions of a bitter forum minority, there is only one choice.
Some people reckon the Beatles are the best band ever. They're not my favourite band, I think the Rolling Stones are overall, a better band (not to mention the fact they're still actually making music). BUT I'M NOT GOING TO GET UPPITY JUST BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE THINK THE BEATLES ARE THE BEST BAND EVER!
Don't get uppity when people claim that WoW is the best, it doesn't make your favourite games suddenly crap, and it doesn't mean you will enjoy WoW more than those games, it's simply what the majority of MMO gamers think, and they have voted with their wallets.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Enjoy.
Perception is Reality.
You have to expect some content to become obsolete with new expansions. This is why one of the reasons I don't like a raiding endgame. It requires far to much time per session and no one wants to put in the effort for such things when new raid content comes out. They just move on to the next raid content. If the content was for small groups it would require less time to get the items and do the dungeons so people would still consider them worthwhile to go back even if there was new content available.
WoW will be around for a long time. EQ and UO are still hanging around long after their prime. WoW is going to get reduced numbers over time like any other good game due to people becoming bored with the game and wanting something new and differnt.
Every MMO will die but the only cause is time. (certain variables will aid in how quick time will have its way)
You do realize WoW is becoming more and more like EQ 1? Item/Armor/Weapon wise WoW will have as much as EQ 1, but then again most of the stuff is either the same ( damage/delay-Armor Class) with different stats and looks...But as more and more land is added more and more old zones will be deserted or abandoned...They are following the same footsteps EQ went and will soon diminish, but that doesnt change the fact that WoW was the MMO with the most players at one point...We all know that every game will lose players but WoW was simply one of the best MMO (from other people of course)
With a linear system, most of the game is obsolete.
If you have a progressive system, with level and gear cap, then nothing is obsolete or trivial ever. You can have a game that have the best helmets in the level 5 dungeon...all the good helmets drop there exclusively. Everyone above level 5 is level 5 in this dungeon. You can always add new helmets if you want, but always in this old dungeon. All other gear is grey and capped in this dungeon, so only the helmets are good items. Then in the level 10 dungeon, everyone above level 10 is level 10, and all the best shields are in this dungeon. Only the shield and the helmets are not greyed, so you have a freaking good reason to earn a helmet before coming here, it will help you. And so on with every zone. Having all the loot in the last dungeons is ridiculous IMO. Spreading it in all the dungeons, the lowbies dungeons as well, will spread the population. It will be very uber to be in a level 50 dungeon, while players would make fun in the dungeons they enjoy. Add new levels? Add new item slots. As simple as that.
Not to mention that Mr. Casual can rule and be freaking awesome and totally master a lowbie dungeon, nobody can outdo him. While Mr. Uber is trying to master the last dungeon as best as possible, with hunting in various dungeon and accomplishing various quests, at various levels. Adding a quest in an old dungeon can lead to a better item there, in that precise dungeon. You can add a new room, a new area, a new encounter in an old dungeon...nothing has to be static...was it hidden before, it is a new excavation, is it new monsters that move in, up to you. It is fun for Mr. Casual to see Mr. Uber comes in HIS dungeon and ask HIS help. And Mr. Uber can help Mr. Casual in 10 other dungeons later if he wants or care...so all is fine.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Of course people will leave for AoC, WAR, Tabula Rasa or other new MMOs, every MMO I dont care how good it is one day gets old and all the hype dies down, new games come out pvpers leave for a better pvp game and RPers go where they can have player housing etc etc but for raiders WoW is a pretty good game. I have seen people who raid like there is no tomorow and they have been at it since day one and they still love it.
WoW will always remain as a legend in the MMORPG world and will be used as an example.
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC
-Playing WoW
-Retired- SWG
-Retired- EVE
-Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled)
- 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).