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Horizon raises from the dead once again?

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  • shadowmageshadowmage Member UncommonPosts: 196

    Well I am happy for one. I have gotten it to work with Vista and have been able to play around on blight with the new patch. Some good some bad things being said about the new patch. Not a lot of people back yet to test and see how good or bad it will be. But at least it is something.

    Emissary of Istaria
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  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564

     

    Originally posted by Menkure


    The terrain is created in Alias MAYA, which is not the easiest modeling program to begin with.. but what really is the problem is the setting up of monster and resource nodes, addition of individual world models, and the creation of plots and linking them to the database.  Bowman knows the ins and outs of this specific setup, and helped teach those at Tulga.


     

    Really? Maya?

    Huh... I would not have guessed that. I always figured they used a height-map based system, similar to other MMOs, where they could also paint the terrain, place objects, etc.

    But I agree... While Maya is a  powerful and versatile app to create game assets in, such as trees, buildings, characters, etc (hell, it's a standard in the movie industry).. I don't think it's specialized enough (inherently anyway) to work well as an environment tool for a real-time game. Granted, if someone there whipped up some tools for it using Maya's scripting language, then I suppose some of those things could be provided... But yeah, I don't think that was the most efficient choice for a terrain/world editor.

    But anyway... I saw mention of a new terrain system being implemented, so we'll see how that turns out, I guess. I know the old system wasn't that great. I remember being able to switch into wireframe view and seeing that there was no occlusion happening, no LOD management of the terrain mesh itself; terrain off on the horizon was no lower in resolution than terrain right at the players' feet. That was bad for performance. If this new engine they're talking about has dynamic LOD and better occlusion, that should make a big difference right there in performance.

    That said.. I'm curious to see how it'll turn out. They've got two major challenges, the way I see it...

    1. To turn that beast around and make it into a more viable game.

    2. To step clear out of the shadow of Bowman. No matter what anyone thinks of him either way, his presence is not unlike the SOE label on a MMO. It tends to turn people away. The good thing is, Horizons and Bowman are both relatively anonymous to most of the gaming community, so it wouldn't be as hard for them to ditch that baggage as it would for SOE. At least that's what I'm inclined to think.

    I'll be keeping an eye on it to see how it progresses.

     

     

     

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • HadesprimeHadesprime Member Posts: 303

    actually you are somewhat wrong Menkure,

     

    Bowman is not active with Horizons. However he is retained for consulting purposes. Vitrium has said as much already.

     

    But really Horizons has such a shady past. Crooked developers , debt dodges and shotty development. Vitrium comes in with no explanation as to how they acquired the game one really has to wonder if EI was just some pre meditated concept to get the game yet again debt free ? Vitrium LLC creation date shows just before the supposed PME acquistion of HZ and I find that highly suspicious.

     

    However Vitrium no matter does deserve a chance to show that they can do something with the game. However with their recent announcement of needing to raise the subscription cost I might urge anyone not to slap down any prepaid money. With Horizons past the new owners are likely to run off with that cash. Though unlikely this is the case.

     

    Now we are back to wait and see. Which seems to be the one true consistent factor with Horizons.

     

    The game just isn't  that good people.

  • shadowmageshadowmage Member UncommonPosts: 196

    No I, at least, am pretty sure EI EI OH/PMI/whoever are a diffrent company. They have had another game they are "managing" way before Horizons came along. They looked at it as another easy "Look these poor saps will pay for anything, lets "manage" it and just rake in the cash." They just not understand development may be slow but it was still development.

    Emissary of Istaria
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  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564
    Originally posted by Hadesprime


    actually you are somewhat wrong Menkure,
     
    Bowman is not active with Horizons. However he is retained for consulting purposes. Vitrium has said as much already.
    Given his knowledge and experience with the terrain creation in that game, it's understandable to maintain contact with him - even if at arm's length - to get people up to speed. He's not running the show anymore. He can't do any more damage, and I think that's good enough news for most people.
    But really Horizons has such a shady past. Crooked developers , debt dodges and shotty development. Vitrium comes in with no explanation as to how they acquired the game one really has to wonder if EI was just some pre meditated concept to get the game yet again debt free ?
    EI is/was a pre-existing company that already had its own game(s) on the market. I don't think those games are around anymore either, though I know I'd played one of them in the past, called Savage Eden, whom I believe was later bought out by Pixel Magic? Not entirely sure of the exact events post-EI. Anyway, they had nothing to do with Artifact or Tulga prior to Horizons coming into the picture. Why they took the game on, though, I have no idea. I believe Tulga got it back in the end, briefly, before Virtrium obtained it. And really, I don't think Virtrium has to explain how they obtained the game. No one outside the company is entitled to that kind of information; heck... I'd think some people *inside* the company aren't entitled to that kind of information. That's not shady... it's just business as usual.


    And the sordid history you speak of is not of Horizons itself. That blame falls squarely on those who continuously mismanaged the game, the billing and the community. The game can't do any of those things by itself. That the game wasn't supported or improved for so long was a failure of the people running the show. I know that's not (or shouldn't be) a revelation to anyone, but I think it's an important distinction to make.  To put it in context, Anarchy Online had an abysmal launch - terrible. If not for the fact that Funcom had their act together enough to fix what needed fixing, it might have floundered along like Horizons has all this time, or died altogether by now.



    With a new team in place who is already showing alot of improvements to it, it has a chance to do much better. Apparently, even knowing the gawful past it's had, someone still has faith enough in what the game can become to put up the time and money to give it yet another try.

    And in this case, it looks like it might actually be working. They've already pushed out a major delta/patch - the first in over a year, as I understand it. They're making people aware well ahead of time of changes that they need to make to improve the game going forward - such as linking the cool-down timers on some abilities that had never been implemented at the start. It's going to make life difficult for some players in the short term, but in the long term it will improve the game overall.
    They're communicating *alot* with the community. CS posts can be found all over the place, in numerous threads. I received a personal message from one of the notable devs in response to a post I made on their forums, thanking me for acknowledging the work they've been doing. 
    They've got the billing working, via PayPal, whom I don't think anyone is going to claim is at all an "incompetent" or "shady" payment system. I'm usually given to cynicism, and I was one of the people who'd been saying "let the game die already". I had alot of faith in the game's potential. I had zero trust in the people running it.  But, I've seen enough already to convince me that these Virtrium folks *are* listening and *are* acting. Yes, I have - literally - put my money where my mouth is and have given them my CC# for a formal subscription.
    Vitrium LLC creation date shows just before the supposed PME acquistion of HZ and I find that highly suspicious.
    That's one way of looking at it and, given the history surrounding it, isn't even unreasonable. However, it could also simply be that Rick Simmons saw the opportunity to obtain Horizons, turn it around and make it a better game. He realized he had the wherewithall to take it on, made a decision and acted upon it, creating the company to do so under; I think anyone would do the same before acquiring something they planned to run as a business. Of course, I don't know what actually happened, just saying the cynicism, while understandable, isn't necessarily necessary (say that 10x really fast :-p) here.


    I think it's understandable that people are gun-shy and skeptical, especially after all that's happened. Almost anything that happens with Horizons could seem suspect. I'm sure they're well aware of this. But, at least in this case, they're showing far more signs of being on the up and up than ever before.
    However Vitrium no matter does deserve a chance to show that they can do something with the game. However with their recent announcement of needing to raise the subscription cost I might urge anyone not to slap down any prepaid money. With Horizons past the new owners are likely to run off with that cash. Though unlikely this is the case.
    Well, the base subscription is just under $10 for 3 character slots, 50 global consignment slots, and some other standard things. That's more than enough to get a feel for the game and even play continuously if one wishes to.  And the price is considerably lower than the typical MMO subscription rate nowadays. It's not at all unreasonable, I don't think. Heck I spent almost $10 on lunch alone today. For the increased rate of just under $15, you get 7 character slots, 150 global consignment slots and one plot/lair. And then there are a few other options.
    And again, the billing is handled through PayPal, a known, respected and widely-used company. If Virtrium were looking to hide behind some shady billing system that might or might not work correctly as their predecessors have, only to play absentee landlord when the complaints started rolling in, they certainly picked the wrong payment gateway to use. I doubt PayPal themselves would tolerate it if numerous people started contacting them with valid complaints of being double billed with no sign of Virtrium trying to correct it.


    Now we are back to wait and see. Which seems to be the one true consistent factor with Horizons.
    True enough.
     The game just isn't  that good people.
    For some. However, I'd say for those who've stuck it out through all that's happened, it certainly is. It's not going to convert anyone who's already decided they don't like it, no. But it's certainly great news for those who had resigned themselves to the idea that they were playing on borrowed time, waiting for the final shoe to drop and the game to die. And, there's always the possibility of new players.
     

     

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • shadowmageshadowmage Member UncommonPosts: 196

    Just a small update. The first live patch in over a year has hit. There have been a few small hick ups with it, but nothing too major. Such as a lot of Halls and Grand Halls got completed by mistake when the decreased  the building requirements for them by mistake when lowering all the requirements. Lairs seem a little strange at first as the data base worked out all your requirments and such for a time after first log in.

     

    Otherwise is a good patch, really so for dragon Lair crafters, but T5 crystals have made there way in, I think as well as a lot of Crystal fixes, and the new food resources are in, still a problem or two here, as well as new food storage silos.

    Emissary of Istaria
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  • CyBloodreignCyBloodreign Member Posts: 33
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