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How do you guys play your wizards?
Talyn
Member UncommonPosts: 587
I love the class but I find myself in an interesting dilemna, which was the impetus for creating both a fighter and ranger character as well.
With the fighter and ranger, your place in the group is obvious, the only concern you may have is running out of arrows for the Ranger, but they can still melee decently to pull their weight in the group.
Since D&D / DDO has no regenerating SP, initially I found myself blowing my load early on and running out of SP, then I was practically useless. "Use wands" I heard. So I started collecting and using any wand I'd find in a chest. That's great and all, but (keep in mind, I'm only lvl 5) they're vastly underpowered compared to my spells. Then I look around and see even the other casters are low on SP but I've just been flailing away with my wand so my SP bar is full. I have this fear that the other players are looking at me like I'm not pulling my weight in the group since my SP is full. I've recently started playing the wizard again and armed him with a more generalized set of spells for both DPS and CC and try to switch back and forth between spells and wands. Maybe that's the answer?
I just don't want to come across like I'm leeching off the group and not doing my part. Wizards seem more "complex" in DDO than I've seen in other games, but I'm curious how you wizard-players work things?
Comments
With my wiz, I scroll Stoneskin and GH buffs to save mana but for the most part my spell selections swap a lot. Sometimes I'm crowd control, sometimes I'm direct damage/insta-kill.
Example: PoP
Inside I blur and haste everyone off mana (and any needed resists), stoneskin and GH everyone off scrolls. I then use FoD and PK on all casters on the way up the hallways and mass hold person on the groups of blackguard types. In the rooms?
1. Skel room, I simply web it up.
2. Marut room, I usually stay in so that I can firewall if we get the nasty wight guys, but otherwise don't do much.
3. Elemental Rooms, I always cast a symbol of fear first, then stay in to PK, FoD, or Banish as needed.
4. Vamp Room, I stay in and simply use a FTS and then firewall.
5. Beholder room, I cast a symbol of fear, jump on the rocks, and then use FoD, FTS, PK, or whatever I can get off fast enough to win LOL!
6. Final Fight, Firewall and usually a dancing area effect or two and a symbol of fear for dealing with the additional spawns.
I also continue to use the scrolls to keep everyone's stoneskin and GH up and then rebuff as needed.
Talyn - thoughtful post,well put
i no longer play but; lol i feel ya. Check the "official" boards too.
Look; you're dead right - wizards ARE harder in DDO - and thats AFTER all the concessions they made to the "real" rules for this to be an MMO most people would find playable...
You wouldn't believe how hard it was for us to teach people from other games to STAY BEHIND the formation and let us SCREEN them... or GOD FORBID: "Run TO OUR FIGHTERS NOT AWAY!!!"...
and i don't doubt you know this; I'm saying you're right the differences in expectations people take from other games is that different. (wanna talk about the extra 20 hit points at first level; lol?)
pretty much in D&D; always; wizards really weren't all that powerful at low levels - less true in DDO but still...
the idea is; a Smart party (remember D&D was traditionally a persistent party of companions - generally. if you have a good guild or friend group; its still true).. a smart party will foster a mage...
because at higher levels... the tables turn. Even at 5th level you're getting some of NASTY spells... It gets nastier.
IMHO - by level 5 you're already pulling your weight - and i don't know how well your group works but even at lower levels;
Have you noticed monsters don't LIKE you? ( i don't agree with this for the non-intelligent monsters...except carnivores..maybe) The rationale for that is they KNOW -just like you do- usually by looking - who the casters are and they KNOW whos dangerous.
This will become more and more true as you advance - and as YOU are the one dishing out the REAL damage.
At ANY level this can be taken advantage of - that monsters will try to RUSH walls of fighters to kill you -but at higher levels it will become imperative. You'll find companions that can hold formation and SCREEN monsters from you - and PULL off tactics like good door blocks and corners- so important.
so important that unless things have REALLY changed, the boards are choked with people who think its "impossible" to play a high-level mage if they can't.
So - to me it sounds like you've ALREADY done the important thing - which is; realize its a different ballgame. You can twink wands and what not until you change that - hell you can auction house your way out of any challenge - but I dont hear thats what you want...
Your power is a resource - know when to use that resource; and you'll be the BEST mage a party can ask for...
In return, I hope you're hearing something along the line of "protect my squishies" -the best party YOU can ask for.
badger: Yeah I picked up on DDO's complexity immediately after joining my first group. I kept thinking "jeez, was I keeping track of this much stuff back in D&D? Holy hell..." but it's quite fun, albeit intimidating.
Vincenz: That level 5 bit I mentioned in my opening post? That's my *highest* level character... while I could follow the basic context of what you were trying to get across, I have absolutely zero clue what all those acronyms actually mean.
LOL...sorry brutha, missed the L5 part
BTW,
PK=Phantasmal Killer, FoD=Finger of Death, FTS=Flesh to Stone (for future reference). Sadly it's been a while since I was L5, so some of this is off the top of my head trying to remember. Couple really useful spells at that level are glitterdust (I still use this spell on my 14th level wizard!), Hypnotic Pattern for crowd control, web is still great CC too, blur is a great buff, Otto's rarely fails on mobs at your level, and of course resist energy is useful. Now, what you want to do is think about where you're going and what you want to offer.
Buffs? Blur and Resist Energy are your best spells. Mage Armor is frankly pretty useless, so I wouldn't worry about it, but shield can be pretty critical with a lot of casters at that level using Magic Missiles (even though it's only self cast).
Crowd Control? Your level 1 spell of Hypnotism is one of the best spells in the game. Low cost, can be heightened, and is actually still effective at level 14. Glitterdust is HUGE, as it not only means blind mobs who are insta-backstabbed now but take a negative on their attack rolls. Otto's is incredibly powerful, as you can make just about everything dance at this level. Hypno Pattern is pretty good as well for controlling large groups. Key to both Hypno and Hypno pattern though is making sure you don't have the greataxe wielding barbarian who runs in and smacks everything and breaks them all out of being hypnotized at once.
Damage? Magic missile doesn't do a lot of damage, but almost nothing can resist it's damage type. Niac's is pretty much becoming about useless at your level, as most things will be saving against it already. Scorching Ray is INSANE damage, especially if you've taken any of the fire enhancements and/or have combustion/inferno items...and there's no save, at all, period.
Talyn-
yep-yep. Actually; I'm guessing its a sec since you played "real" D&D? Remember having to PREPARE your spells by slots rather than having "spell points"? And much less of them available...?
Notice besides that the extra 20 Hp; and that monsters don't use Charm Person on ya? (for example - theres plenty others)...
It was funny in DDO; you could hear 1/2 of us complaining it was WAAAy too easy; and 1/2 complaining it was WAAY too hard.
matter of expectations and previous experience. In most of my PnP games; we operated MUCH more like special forces - how i think of adventuring bands - get in; hit in; get out, before the enemy can organize enough to overwhelm you - alot of people play kick-door kill everything in there - which i always felt like if you CAN win head to head; whats the point of sending a small group? Thats line infantry work there...
Anyway; ol' Vin gave some solid suggestions - more specific than i can be by memory - but again the team tactics are going to decide how its played. At least once we've had a sorc. that did far more harm than good by standing out in the open (giving the enemies a target) casting web 9which in other circumstances is just fine). In this case i quit healing him - it was too damn expensive. I'm like that with sorcs and wiz's taht wnat to charge past the screen; too- but all this is another story & point. The point was; I'm thinking and answering in terms of teamwork rather than specific spells...
Specifically also you asked about mana- one possibility is; at least at first; play a SORCERER for the extra man. You'll still run out - but the less spells is LESS of a disadvantage to a new player; and the more mana will give you less of a tactical conundrum - play more to develop the judgement you need to play that wizard to its fullest. Shelve him and try a sorcerer for a while?
Moreover; crossbows and such are your friend.. sure they dont do as much damage - but low hit point stragglers and what not you can pick off- or piss off
- man really every little bit helps when its close to the wire.
I hope some of this was helpful or at least entertaining? Take care and enjoy!
Crossbows now...dual wielding picks later
Hold monster/person+dual wield picks=SERIOUS DPS even for a squishy wizard!
Wizards are one of the best character class in the game, based off of their versitility and power, so long as the person who plays the character thinks about his role in the group before hand. The mana pool is obviously much lower than a sorc (my sorc character had beat out my level 14 wizzy by level 10), but the balance is maintained through the ability to gear up perfect spells for the mission and higher DCs than a sorc can get (based upon the extra feats).
The thing about running casters is you need to adopt a different strategy at the lower levels then you would for fighters. Since you wont have the spell points at the lower levels really to contend for the lead in kill count, it is imperative to stay behind the fighters as much as possible. On any open battle (without obstructions that block the mobs from your location), you need to watch what you cast. Since crowd control will be most important in the lower levels, certain spells are appropriate for open fields and certain spells are appropriate for blocked off portions. Web is a great spell; however, if you cast web widely in an open field, you will succeed in pissing off most of the mobs against you. Glitterdust and hypno are your friend in wide open spaces. In choke point battles, who cares if the mobs get pissed. They can't reach you anyway. Blur at level 3 is a spell that you will be packing almost always, because you essentially increase the parties HP's by 20 per cent.
Level 5 is where wizards get interesting. You get haste and fireball. Don't use fireball in wide open spaces unless you have alot of experience, a good cc screen away from the blast radius and haste and jump. The problem with the spell is that is causes so much aggro that the fighters won't be able to get the monsters off you until they are dead. In choke point battle fields, burn away.
Level 7 gives firewall and stone skin. At this point, you focus may move away from concern with attracting aggro to desire to attract aggro. Good times. In choke points, firewall mobs. In open spaces, with SS on, you can plop a maximized & empowered firewall, and shield block (I'll keep a towershield just for this purpose) and the monsters won't be able to hurt you before death. Later, you will haste and jump mobs through the firewall, and accomplish the same thing. My sorc occasionally will follow up a firewall with a couple of fireballs just to ensure aggro.
Obviously for caster level 5-7, there are some great spells available, depending on who you are geared. As a buffer, you will probably always bring into high level content greater hero, stone skin, and blur. If there is only one caster and one cleric, the wizard usually gets sucked into dropping the elemental resists.
Final comments about wizards - you will know which fighters are good and which are not more with a fighter than with any other character. The cleric really only knows who is taking the most damage, not who is doing the best. The best fighters are ones who can get and keep the aggro of the mobs away from the casters and clerics. They accomplish this by either killing quickly, intimidating, or out damaging the caster against particular mobs.
Great tips guys, I'll have to keep the browser open so I can Alt+Tab out of DDO and compare that to what spells my wizard has learned so far!
also a spin on wiz is a concept called, battlemage. This build usually is with a dwarf or warforged, at higher lvls this build is really potent. check out the wiz clas forum on the ddo boards for more info. Just for example i just ran pop elite with a grp of 1 clr, me a battlemage, 1 ranger and rest of grp was fighters. I out killed the grp combined took less damage then the fighters, keep the grp perma raged, hasted, stoneskinned and GH. Pushing 320 hp at lvl 14 unbuffed is also hardly squishy . When it was all said and done the grp overall was pretty impressed with what i had done. Only regards to this build is it is not best played buy a new person, and intial build at low lvls goes slowly and is expensive to maintain at times.
Aye, warforged level 1 fighter / lvl 13 wizard I heavily recommend. It's a bit hard for newcomer but very effective later on. Fighter level is basically only for all those weapon proficiencies.
REALITY CHECK
Yeah, I know a couple of these guys running around with dreamsplitters wreaking serious havok
Thread Necromancy! But hey, it's my thread...
Kinda returning to DDO now. Played quite a bit yesterday and my Wiz dinged level 6!
I just re-read everyone's tips and will take them into consideration next time I play.
For straight-up Wizards, do you guys still use a lot of wands? I'm having trouble affording anything remotely useful (and yeah, I learned the hard way Niac's is pretty much useless now). I guess later on the loot is nice enough to bother selling on the AH but this lowbie stuff I just vendor so it takes about 3 quests or so to get enough loot sold to buy one wand of Magic Missile (3rd).
Also... should I be wand + scepter (or whatever?) or staves? I do have a Muckbane for those slimes. Or should I strictly be standing around casting the occasional spell/wand and letting everyone go click-happy in combat? Those are the times I feel I'm not pulling my weight if I'm just standing around, maybe cast a single spell or two, when the melee guys are clicking like crazy and killing everything.
I use zero wands on my wiz. Some scrolls, but no wands at all.
I've only ever used a scroll to inscribe a spell, am I supposed to be casting from scrolls too?
If you are playing a caster for the first time, always try wizard first. There are so many spells in the game you will get to try most of them as a wizard.
I would then suggest asking yourself what kind of caster you would like to be. DPS or CC.
If DPS, go sorcerer. They get much much spell points and faster casting. You can really let rip with a sorcerer and with the right enhancements and equipment are extremely powerful later on. The sorcerers achilles heal is his limited choice of spells and the inability to swap out spells at shrines.
If cc, go wizard. With less spell points you can't really let rip, so every spell has to count. The wizard's advantages over the sorcerer are that they have more spells to choose from, potentially every arcane spell in the game and the ability to swap out at shrines. Wizards are all about adaptibility, they should have a spell for every occasion.
Think about whether you want to generalise or specialise, such as focusing on a particular school i.e. Necromancy, Enchantment or Conjuration.
You must not leave until you free Arlos and have gathered your party safely in this hallway.
I use scrolls for a lot of buffs myself, but I also am not common to doing it. I usually GH on scrolls for the party, because I know they want it...but I want my mana dammit LOL!
Spellcasting for the most part is about DC's though, and you give that up with a scroll or a wand...so it's rarlely worth it.
In the PUG's yesterday, I loaded up Blur and the AoE version of Protection from Evil (forget the actual name) so I'd have some buffs to contribute to the group. I normally vendor every scroll if I already know the spell, maybe I'll start keeping certain ones. Not that I find many very often...
I did get a nice hat from Catacombs that gave something like +25 SP or so? Do these dungeons have fairly static loot tables, so I'd need to run Catacombs a few times to get all the nice Wizard gear then move to the next "big" dungeon?
I know a lot of casters that run WW to get the caster AC bracers. Something like that, that act like AC for casters. Highly sought after and NEVER shows up when you're the caster getting the loot choices at the end. I've seen it every time on my rogue, bard, paladin. When I tried on my caster, NOPE. Game is rigged!!!
You know the bracers I'm talking about Talyn?
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
No idea, but I don't really know any of the DDO (or D&D) loot anyway. I am badly wanting a ring of featherfall though, which I've heard comes from Waterworks or STK?
Yeah I believe ring is from STK. Atleast someone last night was wanting a ring of featherfall from STK. Dunno if same ring. Not to fond of the loot from STK, least what came up for me and I ran it 3 times this weekend. WW was more kind to me.
Wish I knew a site that listed loot rewards from quests.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
heheh sounds just like the pen and paper DnD. you gotta judge when ur spells are needed. use a missile weapon in the meantime. also pick ur spells VERY carefully.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I recently got my 1st Wizard to 14, I'll try and give you my thoughts on the class as this was my 1st Arcane caster.
A Wizard's biggest strength is versatility, you can set your spells up for a particular quest, and adjust your spell selections at a shrine if things aren't working out as you intend. Don't be afraid to ask others what is in the quest and what spells might be usefull.
While, due to the extra spell points Sorcerers are able to nuke more, the fable about them being better at nuking is just that a fable if you play smart and know how to not nuke everything that moves. The spells do exactly the same damage from a Wizard or a Sorcerer with comparable feats/enhancments/gear. We just can;t nuke for the same sustained duration, if you play smart don;t be afraid to nuke some of the tougher bosses.
Don;t be afraid to hand out buffs to the party. A Cleric of the same level is going to have less spell points and most Sorcerers do not load many buff spells (beyond maybe blur, stoneskin, resist, jump & displacement). I have found often times that if we have a Cleric in the party (and they have the divine vitality enhancement) that I will recieve a majority of the dv's after buffing a party. If not, well the buffed melee are fine for killing and I just have to pick and choose my spells a little more carefully.
Crowd Controll. Crowd controll can save a party period. Even at level 14 Hypno still works for me, don;t even have to highten it a majority of the time. Almost all crowd controll have situations in which they are usefull.
Wands/Scrolls. I carry a few Repair Wands and a stack of Reconstruct scrolls (I am Warforged, self healing FTW!!!). A few other usefull wands/scrolls are Diminsion Door (no longer available at vendors), Greater Teleport, Remove Curse, Invisiblility (has it's uses) and honestly I think thats about all I carry....
Forgot to add Greater Heroism scrolls are usefull, I keep the spell loaded so don;t carry scrolls for it though.
Wands are more effective for the lower levels due to DC’s unless they're buff oriented. If it’s about the same Caster Level as your arcane character there won’t much of a difference to the real thing when a DC is involved. Once you get to level 16 that Wand of Burning Hands (Caster Level 3) isn’t going to do much good other then burning away a maliciously placed Web spell.
Collectibles are the best way to get access to scrolls and wands without purchasing them. Look for the sparkly “Adventurer’s Packs” and various "Fungi" lying around and be sure to click them. Asking the party if you can have the collectibles is also beneficial since most won’t even bother with it unless you ask. If you’re on Ghallanda I could mail you a bunch of the collectibles I've saved up…
I rarely use scrolls and wands anymore. The main ones that I try to keep on hand are Wand’s of elemental Resistance and Protection (higher the caster level the better) and Wand of Cure Wounds. If a warforged runs with the group and requests healing I ask for Reconstruction scrolls (10 is enough) and won’t use Repair wands due to them being as effective as a potion with the likelihood of trying to heal 400 hitpoints. The one scroll I almost always have 20 of would be Teleport; UMD is not high enough to reliably use Heal Scrolls.
Stone Skin wands are nice but I personally would rather have 150 points worth of DR then 100. I have the Seal of the Earth which is a 3 charge clicky of the spell and still prefer the spell.
My buffs are limited - Stone Skin, Greater Heroism, Displacement, Jump, Haste; then Night Shield & Fire Shield. I mix Crowd Control with Nuking while being limited to only Fire/Cold specialization. My unbuffed 41 AC (bramble casters: Greater Spear Block; Armor with Axe or Hammer block) and a good Diplomacy and Intimidate helps to control mob agro.
When I see other party members taking a beating I’ll Intimidate to pull agro onto me which also helps regain my spell poing – Torc of Prince Raiyum for the win!
My 28 point build Elven Sorcerer is currently at 2045 spell points without several feats and enhancements for additional spell points; 32 Cha. My playstyle is more along the lines of “run and gun” and I maintain a “stick and move” philosophy during engagements; wielding a Cursepewing of Shattermantle. Waves of Exhaustion and Ray of Exhaustion both stack which gives some potent options when attempting to debuff mobs to mitigate potential damage. Don’t forget Glitterdust (careful, it breaks Bard’s songs) Mindfog (-10 Will Saves) and Cloud Kill which are VERY effective in the proper circumstances. Don’t forget Wall of Fire!
STK rewards I am never too impressed with either for a caster. Trapblast goggles are great with +4 reflex bonus but the rest I can usually live without.
A few rewards in the catacombs are caster friendly such as mask of the asylum with +5 to concentration, think there is another necklace with a spell point increase and a false life robe which has +10 hp.
You must not leave until you free Arlos and have gathered your party safely in this hallway.
I'll look into those bracers, although I'll probably have a hard time finding a group for that now that I'm lvl 6.
Turbine really needs to work on their Compendium, that thing is useless, just a static list. I can't even look up stats or anything... not all DDO players own the D&D books!
Ranged... yeah maybe I'll keep a crossbow next time I find one. It was fun swinging the Muckbane around in Catacombs the other day though, but with my wimpy Wizard STR I had no fear of ever getting any aggro.
Making cash in DDO - since there's no actual economy and the AH seems to be insanely inflated, am I pretty much screwed until I'm high-level and able to sell stuff myself at insanely inflated prices?