Do Mechs get shot apart?

Zoowey

I wonder if Mechs will use the same ol' hp system of, you have 50/50 life, you reach 0/50 you blow up, or if individual body parts such as arms, legs, heads... can be shot off or take dmg?

badgerbadger

  If you get a chance to read the interview on Force of Arms it mentions that the combat system was sufficiently detailed that it was cumbersome for "tabletop" play but is rewarded by computerized play (squad leader, anyone; lol)...

  I think this fairly well guarantess that this will NOT be  your cookie-cutter fantasy/everquest MMO combat model with different skins as we have seen before.

  Unlike many MMO's; this is being done by people who are fans of the game; rather than; as I suspect is the usual case; Devs who are just fans of older MMO's...

 There ARE - has always been - other ways to do things.  I expect we''ll see one alternative illustrated soon.

Hamilton-NEO

Yes, locations can be destroyed or damaged, without causing the destruction or mission kill of the Mech (unless it is the Main Body or Cockpit).  Fighting Units do not use Hit Points, rather something similar to BattleTech.

Each Location (Arms, Legs, Main Bodies, Head, Turrets, Pods, etc) have specific armor locations, such as a Torso with 10 armor locations (Upper Torso, Center Torso, Lower Torso, Left Torso, Right Torso; and another five to the rear).  Each Armor Location has an Armor Rating, which is used to determine if that specific location can prevent the damage of a weapon from penetrating into the Chassis.  Depending on the amount of damage done by the weapon, the Armor Rating may be decreased; so successful hits may eventually end up penetrating.

Once Penetration occurs, the Chassis as well as internal systems may be damaged and or destroyed.

Also some weapons can cause high amounts of Shock Damage, which is basically the force of the impact of the shell or blast.  Sensitive electronics may be knocked off-line from the force of being hit by a 300mm shell; even if the armor was not penetrated.

And there are Energy Screens, which help to ward off Energy Based Weapons, as those weapons have a better chance of penetrating the armor.

We haven't made a firm decision about whether or not Legs can be blown off or just left intact, but non-functional.  There are pro's and con's for both sides.

Hamilton-NEO

Originally posted by badgerbadger


  If you get a chance to read the interview on Force of Arms it mentions that the combat system was sufficiently detailed that it was cumbersome for "tabletop" play but is rewarded by computerized play (squad leader, anyone; lol)...
  I think this fairly well guarantess that this will nOT be  your cookie-cutter fantasy/everquest MMO combat model with different skins as we have seen before.

Heh, answered before I could.  Very well said.

Squad Leader... I wonder how many people have played that, let alone who actually know of it....

Zoowey

Thank you for answering my ?, OH! btw, mabye you can consider me when closed-beta or mabye alpha? testing comes out. I'm just so excited i can barely hold my pants up!

impulsebooks

Originally posted by Hamilton-WDS


We haven't made a firm decision about whether or not Legs can be blown off or just left intact, but non-functional.  There are pro's and con's for both sides.

I hope bits can get blown off to be honest. It doesn't have to be legs, because that would present a serious problem if a mech was lamed that way but not killed outright--how would it get back to a hangar for repairs for instance.

But yes, I would like weapons and equipment to be blown off, arms maybe, bits of armour... just think, we could salvage battle fields and use the junk to upgrade our own mechs, or maybe recycle it to build new ones. That would be fantastic.

All this does bring to mind how the Resurrection system will work however. If my mech gets blown to bits (God for-fend!) and my avatar dies, how is he resurrected, or is he even resurrected? Perma death is right out in my opinion, but maybe not in others' opinions. Anyway, if I die and my mech is destroyed, do I wake up in a clone tank or something with a basic mech in a hangar somewhere to start over? Tat would be one hell of a death penalty!! Perhaps I have insurance on my mech as I would on my ships in Eve?

 

knas01

Wow, internal damage.  Havent seen that since Mech Warrior 2, and now it's in a MMO. Couldn't be better. 

Hamilton-NEO

Thanks all!

Originally posted by impulsebooks



I hope bits can get blown off to be honest. It doesn't have to be legs, because that would present a serious problem if a mech was lamed that way but not killed outright--how would it get back to a hangar for repairs for instance.
But yes, I would like weapons and equipment to be blown off, arms maybe, bits of armour... just think, we could salvage battle fields and use the junk to upgrade our own mechs, or maybe recycle it to build new ones. That would be fantastic.
All this does bring to mind how the Resurrection system will work however. If my mech gets blown to bits (God for-fend!) and my avatar dies, how is he resurrected, or is he even resurrected? Perma death is right out in my opinion, but maybe not in others' opinions. Anyway, if I die and my mech is destroyed, do I wake up in a clone tank or something with a basic mech in a hangar somewhere to start over? Tat would be one hell of a death penalty!! Perhaps I have insurance on my mech as I would on my ships in Eve?
 

Things being blown off, such as armor bits, is going to greatly depend (actually it will depend) on the physics engine that is to be supported.  There are engines available that can provide that level of detail of allowing armor chucks to fly off and be indented, leaking of fluids, etc.  I don't know about handling loot/salvage being blown off and being allowed to be picked up.  Sounds like a good idea... might be possible, say if something is not picked up in X seconds or minutes, then it either disappears and is lost or is automatically recovered by the original player.  Good idea, got to research that.

 

Character Death or Mech Loss:

Still debating that.  Character death is not Perma-Death in its true definition.  Character do have a finite life-span (due to combat related deaths only; aging is not used).  No hard numbers have been set as to how many clones of a character are available, and I suspect we won't know for certain until Beta is about done (we'll have to find that comfort zone with the players through testing).

The only way that there can be Heroes, is if there is some sort of sacrificed involved.  And since we allow characters to be capable skilled adults at start-up, that dread of starting over from level-0 grind is not present.

For Mechs, the starting Mech (or vehicle, aircraft) is considered part of the character, since the fighting unit was purchased by Character Points and not by credits.  So the starting unit won't be lost or completely destroyed; but could expect to be severly damaged and in need of repairs.  Additional fighting units should be expected to be lost if they are destroyed.  We do want to avoid the possibility of someone becoming Mechless as that would be easy to do, since fighting units cost in the multi-millions worth of credits.

impulsebooks

Originally posted by Hamilton-WDS


 
Character Death or Mech Loss:
... Character do have a finite life-span (due to combat related deaths only; aging is not used).  No hard numbers have been set as to how many clones of a character are available, and I suspect we won't know for certain until Beta is about done (we'll have to find that comfort zone with the players through testing).
The only way that there can be Heroes, is if there is some sort of sacrificed involved.  And since we allow characters to be capable skilled adults at start-up, that dread of starting over from level-0 grind is not present.

In a strange way then, players are not really investing time/energy in their avatars (they die permanently after a set number of clones) but are instead investing their time in their (for want of a better term) hangar inventories/mech companies, merc companies...etc not in the pilots. True?

This is a significant departure from most MMOs, where game x (insert well know fantasy MMO) is all about resurrecting the toon forever and keeping the players returning to play them forever. Does this difference worry you? Or will you have avatars "on tap" kind of thing, where as in a very old game called Syndicate you could enhance certain attributes of your team (for our purposes pilots) and pick which one to send on a mission.

Up until now, I had assumed the avatar would just be a walking graphic (no game/combat enhancing attributes) and that it was the mechs that you improved with upgrades etc. I am fine with this, it more realistic in a mech game.

If your avatars die after, for example only, 10 clonings I could see the longevity of the game being affected adversely. I think this because players are people not mechs, and they will prefer to associate themselves with the avatar not the machine. Its a bit like Eve, some people are happy to be a ship all the time, but I am not one of those. I would have the game mechanic for resurrections still be clones, because when your mech blows it blows up big time  but have the clones never run out as long as you pay your cloning fees/insurance.

I mean, what is the real difference between me playing on clone number 37, or me playing on a new avatar i had to created after my maximum clone number xyz died?

I'm not sure what you mean by the sacrifice factor of heroes... if you sacrifice your avatar and can't res him, then that makes him a dead hero at best. If you sacrifice him and then res him, he would be a poor hero as the player really lost nothing.

In a mech game, the mental anguish of losing your shiny powerful mech is surely the only real sacrifice possible?

 

 

 

Mordacai

Originally posted by impulsebooks


 
Originally posted by Hamilton-WDS


We haven't made a firm decision about whether or not Legs can be blown off or just left intact, but non-functional.  There are pro's and con's for both sides.

I hope bits can get blown off to be honest. It doesn't have to be legs, because that would present a serious problem if a mech was lamed that way but not killed outright--how would it get back to a hangar for repairs for instance.

 

But yes, I would like weapons and equipment to be blown off, arms maybe, bits of armour... just think, we could salvage battle fields and use the junk to upgrade our own mechs, or maybe recycle it to build new ones. That would be fantastic.

All this does bring to mind how the Resurrection system will work however. If my mech gets blown to bits (God for-fend!) and my avatar dies, how is he resurrected, or is he even resurrected? Perma death is right out in my opinion, but maybe not in others' opinions. Anyway, if I die and my mech is destroyed, do I wake up in a clone tank or something with a basic mech in a hangar somewhere to start over? Tat would be one hell of a death penalty!! Perhaps I have insurance on my mech as I would on my ships in Eve?

 

Just something I wanted to drudge up since it had some relevancy, an exert from a post  from our forum boards we like to call...

"The Mech Commandments"

When thy mech is immobilized, thou shall become a pillbox.



When thy mech is disarmed, thou shall become a bunker.



When thy time has run out, thou shall become a hero.