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casters pwning melee classes?
sorrow131
Member Posts: 44
will casters and melee classes be able to kill each other =???
most of the time in games casters always beat the melee guys... and i like melee classes
Comments
I'll fix that for you:
most of te time in Wow casters always beat the melee guys... and i like melee classes.
I'd have to strongly disagree with the above poster. Out of all the MMO's I've played I'd have to say WoW's melee classes have a decent chance of kill casters. Most other mmo's casters own melee's because they have no way to close the gap. I think they way they did charge for warriors in WoW was excellent, because it gave them a way to close the gap very quickly.
Well, warriors are one melee class, anyway. Paladins are sort of screwed, though BoF helps.
As for casters "pwning" melee players. Well, I cannot guarantee it will not happen, but I can say that EA Mythic will do their best to ensure it does not. I doubt they want to create such a rift in power. From what I have seen, characters are very tough to kill, so the main caster advantage in other games is gone - 2-3 shot kills from range. In WAR, it does not look like a caster will be able to nuke someone down so fast, and there is not a lot of CC. So, while that Bright Wizard is casting a nuke that takes away maybe 15% of that Black Orc's health, that Black Orc will be closing in and laying some smack down, and In close quarters the wizard will be hurting.
Anyway, we will not know if they succeed until launch, and until then it is difficult to debate because the only videos we have seen are filled with demo newbs just trying the game out. I know in one thread someone said how in a video casters were kicking ass and melee classes seemed to be losing. Well, if that is true, one must consider that someone playing a game for 15 minutes is not going to have learnt how to play very well, so a caster who can just stand back and press one nuke a few times may do better than a melee player who needs to learn how to use his abilities to close the gap and such.
Short answer is...nes or maybe yo? Anyways it goes both ways. Caster have no armor so if a melee manages to get in close they will get demolished. However casters make up for that was damage so if they keep ranged they will kill melee. So yes and no. It is the glass cannon type scenario. Watch some RvR videos of melee hitting casters and watch their health just get hacked away in no time flat. Then watch a tank go headlong into a crowd and it take forever to kill him, then a melee dps goes in and gets smashed.
The only way for a Warrior to get close, is charge + intercept. Charge does not work in combat, leaving only intercept viable for 70% of the combat you end in. Intercept is a single 30 second cooldown skill, that is your only trumphcard in PvP, to be able to defeat a caster. If the caster manages to stay alive ( and oh how often does that happen) after the intercept, the Warrior is as good as dead.
If you watch the mythic vids on the classes, they are clearly going for a paper rock scissors type of tactical combat. In the vids they explicitely state the types of enemy classes that you would be strong or weak against. They differentiate between heavy melee, light melee, and ranged dps.
If I recall, ranged magic users in general would be stronger against heavy melee classes but weaker to light melee classes, which are faster moving and hitting.
So the answer seems to be.. if you want to have an advantage over casters, go light melee. But no one group is going to be able to pwn all other groups. that would be silly.
Ask yourself, if heavy melee did not have a disadvantage to casters... who would they have a disadvantage to? Its gotta be something, or everyone would just play heavy melee
It's very easy for a warrior in wow to kill casters. All you have to do is raid till your eyes beleed, obtain the best gear possible in the game. Now find yourself a caster in blues from 5 man instance and one shot that sucker with your fiery sword of doom you stole from arthas...
War is going with a rps system, however there are plenty of things that unbalance an rps system, so, just because you are playing a melee class doesn't mean you will always lose to a none retarded caster. Also, it will like change as the game gets older and new expansion are released (ie, in daoc, casters were dominatign melee at release, then it changed several times, now it's about equal with hybrids havign an advantage but depends which timers are up)
All in all I'd guess you would be able to win any fight, though soem fights might be harder to win than others.
Mythics always worked very hard on this in DAOC, and while its taken a while I think they've done a pretty good job with it over the years.
Casters have one huge advantage though.... in Keep defenses and assaults casters/archers have much more fun killing folks as the melee types can't really get to anyone.... at least until the doors come down....
WAR's going to have some new combat mechanics to it which should make things a bit more interesting....we'll have to wait to play it and see....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Using DAoC as a model, casters and archers in keep defense had a distinct advantage leaving the tanks inactive until the wall or door was broken down. (We need not discuss the stealth classes scaling walls which did provide some activity for tanks inside the keep since WAR will not have stealth classes.)
In the WAR beta videos I have seen, there will be some terrain advantages that ranged attackers can utilize -- and if tanks are effectively using collision detection (shield walls or chokepoints), they should be able to block the meleers from attacking the squishies directly.
I would hope that class tactics and strengths will be situational. For example, if the tanks are effectively prevented from attacking the casters directly, then the casters will have free range to use their strengths versus the tanks ... ranged damage. If other casters or fast-moving light meleers can attack those enemy casters, then they will be put in harm's way, routed and defeated.
Currently in the beta videos I have watched, the RvR efforts have mainly seemed uncoordinated and chaotic. That will change once people play together on a realm for a long time and gain experience and the RvR-oriented guilds perfect their PvP tactics and strategy.
There will be a learning curve and it will take some time to really see top-class RvR action ... but it will come.
~~~
Oh, and btw, all Greenskins must die like suffering pig-dogs in Hell!
~ Ancient Membership ~
LOL! Touche!
That made me laugh. Flying Orcs incoming!!!
~ Ancient Membership ~
For sure, I have played this game enough since it cames out to say, casters owns everything!
cmon mate, how can we do question like this for a game that isnt released? how do you want to know something like this? the developers DONT KNOW this, cause if they see that casters "owns melee", they will balance it, and when the game cames out, and the first bugs/unbalances are seen on it, they will modify or nerf then, dont worry with questions like this or like "wich will be the better class"...
For sure, I have played this game enough since it cames out to say, casters owns everything!
cmon mate, how can we do question like this for a game that isnt released? how do you want to know something like this? the developers DONT KNOW this, cause if they see that casters "owns melee", they will balance it, and when the game cames out, and the first bugs/unbalances are seen on it, they will modify or nerf then, dont worry with questions like this or like "wich will be the better class"...
The fatal error of any MMO, is nerfing. Best way is to simply start off perfectly. Trust me.
That's not possible though
Players are a lot more creative than devs. Chances are people will figure a combination of classes that makes ither a stronger group or a group that is as good as any other but is easier to play etc.
So, what if no one wants an orc choppa because whitch elf makes a better melee dps? Leave it be? Nerf witch elf or buff orc choppa to now be on par with we (which would be damn hard since they use somewhat different systems) and what about order? It's bad enaugh witch elf was the best melee dps, but not choppa is as good or even better? All the cries about mythic playing destruction and choppas and how they hate order will flood the forums
Of course mythic will nerf, anyone who thinks there won't be nerfs in war is naive at best.
If melee will be able to kill a caster, then this game's not for me.
The whole point of being a caster (and being made out of paper), is the ability to kill melee from a distant. Why do you think casters take longer to level. They have to go through all the levels to finally get good gear (which is still usually a wooden stick and more paper) while the warrior at level 15 has heavy plate and massive swords.
So, if that's the case, no Warhammer for me.
Interesting and rather unusual point of view. Most people agree that casters are more effective at lvl x than melee classes because casters damage is mostly based on spell delve, where as melee's damage is based on weapon used and other stats. Melee also have to be in melee range O_o so need armor to take the hits, where as casters don't really need armor since you generally don't get hit by mobs anyway (heh, I remember level'ing a wizy in daoc and at lvl 40 I was still usign some of the lvl 3 items because I didn't feel like buying new gear lol)
Melee level'ing faster than casters depends mostly on the game in question. Also, if a caster can kill a melee class, why play a melee class? You have to remember, war is a pvp game, not pve, so saying that casters do tons of damage (and one shot everyoen in duels) but tanks are needed to tank doesn't work.
In the end, casters will kill melee and melee will kill casters
Lets just hope it's done right. It wouldn't be fair IMHO to see warriors just run in and wack the caster a few times and kill em.
Who knows how this will be... untill open beta or gold, we'll never know.
Wether this is true or the opposite is true doesn't matter. It's wether the game as a whole is balanced. I could care less if class X pwns class Y. All that matters is if the sides are competitive (not necissarily equal). Let the game get past alpha before we start the nerf X crap ffs.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
this is where the little thing called tactics comes into play
the noob that sits in the same spot spamming spells over and over will get his $@3 handed to him by a player (melee or not) who uses tactics like
1. terrain. sneaking up on the unsuspecting player can do wonders for the range problems. it can also block line of sight and prevent flanking
2. pick your targets wisely. dont go hacking away at a caster when there is a healer sitting next to him ready to heal him...go for the healer first.
3. use your allies wisely. if u got some casters on a hill spamming death onto enemy troops engaged with your melee guys its up to you to protect those casters and/or take out any enemy re-enforcements. equally engaging a mob of your enemy to slow them down can help alot
there are many many many other things u can do to help close the range and beat either casters or melee.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Mythic finally gave tanks ability on a timer to climb wall in daoc so we can probably see the same for WAR too. So instead of tanks sitting there doing nothing but picking their noses......... now they can have fun getting inside killing ppl while getting heal spam from their healers.
I would have thought that Mytic would have tried to implement the winds of magic which made magic a whole new ball game. It's not just about learning a spell and popping it off, it depends if the conditions in the ether are right for casting that particular spell.
Of course I'm not in beta and the NDA is in force so I have no idea of finding out.
well ive watched several PVP videos for warhammer and also the devs have said that in war the PVP battles are not 3 second battles like wow but more drawn out so i doubt casters will be 2 shotting meleers and vise versa