KFR also said that the figures of $1500 and $1000 posted by Vlad and Vepgenus were not right, probably not by only $10 though. I'm sure they just threw out a rough guess. Anyone with over $1000 spent would have to do some accounting to figure out their total - since you can only buy 10,000 Sesterces or $40 worth at a time.
They might be surprised themselves.
And, one can only imagine how much Augir has spent; probably more than all the other VERM purchases combined. He's definately RB's biggest supporter.
ok I have another tactic because maybe we are doing to many things here for you. Show me where a PLAYER is selling items for MORE then the NPC vendors sell items. Show me that then I will move to each and every dumbass point you have because you cant seem to grasp anything. I think I might start doing this more often. Please post either who is selling it for MORE, or a screen shot of a merchant selling it for more (player NPC is a merchant). Dont just say HIGH QL items, because NPCs sell from 2/2 to 99/99 QL.
The suggestion that I made and you didn't even comment on would be beneficial for all parties involved players and RB. I will restate it please critique it as you critiqued the other posts.
NPC vendors should sell items of low QL for low prices(this is even if they leave the high Ql prices the way they are). NPC Prices and QL should be similar to the following: 50ses for 10-15Ql shield, 25ses for 10-15QL spear, 75ses for 10-15QL sword and 100ses for 10-15QL armor and 45ses for 10-15QL helm.
(and thats all they should sell... anything better and they have to turn to the players)
(also the durability of items shoud be slightly increased to last longer, so they dont break after only 10-14 reapirs or if they do it they last a bit longer inbetween repairs)
This would be resonable and within the 500ses a month ammount as RB said it would last ya.(but read on)
Crafters should be able to set the QL for the project they are working on before they start it. This would lower their crafting times depending upon the QL of item they are trying to make. Lower for low Ql higher for high QL.
Also an option to make more than one item at a time on one peice of equipment, so (for example)if they were going to smelt ore they could select to smelt 1,2,3 ect on up to 99 at a time and the time's would increase accordingly. Same for the actual items if they had the needed ammounts of each item needed to create the items. QL of the smelted ore would depend on the QL you set and the skill of the player smelting it.
For the crafters also, if they are low skilled and cannot make a 99QL item, they don't have to waste the same ammount of time as they would currently. And could skill up accordingly. So if you are currently lvl 30 in baking you could set to make QL 10-35 effectivly, but could try for higher at higher craft times and higher probabability of not doing so well and getting a lower QL item.
That would make crafting less of a drag for crafters, and it would make buying gear less of a drag for new players, removing the rip off that current NPC's are. As you know as well as I do they have to use them if noone is arround (and the world is nearly empty ATM). And they would know that to get better stuff they have to turn to players, and since this crafting would be more rewarding and slightly more entertaining more folks would(possibly) be doing it, so new players would have more folks to buy from.
Seems that they would be relativley simple changes to implement that don't require drastic changes to the current system just some imputs as to the ql lvl your are aiming for and the system to determine the outcome of the attempt. And a few changes to NPc merchant stock and prices.
Yeah it would require players getting used to the change but overall it adds alot of interesting options to the crafting as well as gives new payers a chance to gain skills and learn about the game a bit before they are blindsided by players wheeling and dealings.
Why don't you reply to that first... As I have no desire to wander arround in that POS ATM, especially not to relive what I already went through and know, just to try and prove a point to you that is obvious to so many others that have left the game totaly.
I might later on but not now... I will even pull up those posts for ya I mentioned.
Just give that suggestion some real though and don't just blow it off. Really think about how it would improve the game not just how it is different and will require getting used to a tiny bit of change, that you keep saying dosen't matter to you or anyone with a brain(like you said a bunch of times)... As they don't use NPC vendors anyways right? And think as a crafter on the rest of it on how it would make the crafting more interesting more fun and more rewarding.
The suggestion that I made and you didn't even comment on would be beneficial for all parties involved players and RB. I will restate it please critique it as you critiqued the other posts.
NPC vendors should sell items of low QL for low prices(this is even if they leave the high Ql prices the way they are). NPC Prices and QL should be similar to the following: 50ses for 10-15Ql shield, 25ses for 10-15QL spear, 75ses for 10-15QL sword and 100ses for 10-15QL armor and 45ses for 10-15QL helm.
(and thats all they should sell... anything better and they have to turn to the players)
(also the durability of items shoud be slightly increased to last longer, so they dont break after only 10-14 reapirs or if they do it they last a bit longer inbetween repairs)
This would be resonable and within the 500ses a month ammount as RB said it would last ya.(but read on)
Ok again, I will post to this because you dont seem to understand. But Im not going to comment on everything because you cant follow it.
Now your idea is this, make everything cheaper right? Now what about crafters? You just made these items that take HOURS of building time to craft as much or less then a firewood pile. Now tell me, how or why would a crafter build anything with those prices?
Also you are talking about items that last hours and hours and hours, that take hours to make costing so little that they could take the items that took to make it, sell it to the scrap NPC for almost as much as the end cost of the item.
Sorry but your version of what the prices should be is way off. Now sure if they balanced everything it might work, but then again you still have the problem is you are just changing the price of the verm. What you should be saying is that verm isnt worth the price (even though it is to a lot of people) You believe that people should be getting like 1000ses per 1$ instead of only 250ses.
DDT, He wants everything to be really easy (and cheap) and he simply won't understand the relationship between labor, incentive, and reward. I have not read his novels he has posted here in this thread (my usual method since many months ago), but based on your well written and logical responses, it seems you are trying to teach him that very relationship and he is just not seeing it. Just join me and give up. It's so pleasant on this side.
The suggestion that I made and you didn't even comment on would be beneficial for all parties involved players and RB. I will restate it please critique it as you critiqued the other posts. NPC vendors should sell items of low QL for low prices(this is even if they leave the high Ql prices the way they are). NPC Prices and QL should be similar to the following: 50ses for 10-15Ql shield, 25ses for 10-15QL spear, 75ses for 10-15QL sword and 100ses for 10-15QL armor and 45ses for 10-15QL helm. (and thats all they should sell... anything better and they have to turn to the players) (also the durability of items shoud be slightly increased to last longer, so they dont break after only 10-14 reapirs or if they do it they last a bit longer inbetween repairs) This would be resonable and within the 500ses a month ammount as RB said it would last ya.(but read on)
Ok again, I will post to this because you dont seem to understand. But Im not going to comment on everything because you cant follow it.
Now your idea is this, make everything cheaper right? Now what about crafters? You just made these items that take HOURS of building time to craft as much or less then a firewood pile. Now tell me, how or why would a crafter build anything with those prices?
Also you are talking about items that last hours and hours and hours, that take hours to make costing so little that they could take the items that took to make it, sell it to the scrap NPC for almost as much as the end cost of the item.
Sorry but your version of what the prices should be is way off. Now sure if they balanced everything it might work, but then again you still have the problem is you are just changing the price of the verm. What you should be saying is that verm isnt worth the price (even though it is to a lot of people) You believe that people should be getting like 1000ses per 1$ instead of only 250ses.
LMFAO, you read the first paragraph and post on it without bothering to read what I had said was a package deal.... Ofcourse it dosen't make sense read the rest of it... Ohh in in 5 secs of looking I found you one of the many posts that are in RV forums on complaints about vrem or ses... http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?t=21136&highlight=ses
Will keep posting them. If you bother to read it (yeah started as a guild hall discussion)he goes on to complain about how high the price of the hamata is 10k ses (but was 20k last one I saw) these were early posts...and I saw you in there defending the high prices back then lol ... Will dig a few more up for ya im the meantime why don't ya finish reading the suggestion I made so it does make sense...
".Due to many times we have seen individuals complain about prices of items and needed things in RV and not having enough Ses in which they start with.. LOL says it all...
Seen many posts from you DDT, saying the prices should be higher and crafting needing more timesinks(durrig beta it seems)... lol I guess we know why you are so adamant about defending it now... you helped get it that way...
You guys are hopeless... So I will just stop trying to explain it to ya lol. I am sure that you two will be hanging arround till they say sorry guys we are closed have to move on now... so I will leave ya to that, and then you can ponder why it happened amongst yourselves. Knowing you fanbois you will probably invest in RB's next venture too... LOL Since you obviously cannot learn from experiance and what others are saying...not just me open your eyes and read.
I will unsub from these topics and you can post away about how it is all fine and getting better lol... I think me and many others have made it quite clear how it really is, not many are gonna be stupid enough to fall in to the RV trap after a short read through these forums.
If something takes ages to make then it should fetch a high price due to the time needed to make it. If you want crafting to be long and complicated and involved then the items made need to be able to fetch a high price.
Not only that but the player crafters need to be able to undercut the NPC vendors with their homemade wares rather than players using the NPCs and crafting then being an impossible life because it takes ages to make stuff which you then can't sell!
So complicated crafting = pay more, crafted items should cost enough to cover the time spent making them but still be cheaper than buying from NPCs to keep the crafters in business.
Originally posted by shane910 Hmmmmm, read the first post here... ".Due to many times we have seen individuals complain about prices of items and needed things in RV and not having enough Ses in which they start with.. LOL says it all... http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?t=20874&highlight=ses
Seen many posts from you DDT, saying the prices should be higher and crafting needing more timesinks(durrig beta it seems)... lol I guess we know why you are so adamant about defending it now... you helped get it that way...
You guys are hopeless... So I will just stop trying to explain it to ya lol. I am sure that you two will be hanging arround till they say sorry guys we are closed have to move on now... so I will leave ya to that, and then you can ponder why it happened amongst yourselves. Knowing you fanbois you will probably invest in RB's next venture too... LOL Since you obviously cannot learn from experiance and what others are saying...not just me open your eyes and read. I will unsub from these topics and you can post away about how it is all fine and getting better lol... I think me and many others have made it quite clear how it really is, not many are gonna be stupid enough to fall in to the RV trap after a short read through these forums.
Ya Im a fanboi haha. Maybe you should read some of my posts on here. Im sorry you are a moron but I guess someone has to set the lower end of the bar for others right?
Maybe you should read those posts you linked, the first is me saying the its balanced.
The second is about Lucii using it to promote their sales. Just because they are selling for super cheap (trust me I know why they are doing it). Doesnt mean that they feel the prices are to high, its them trying to get people to buy from them instead of others. Thats how it works. If someone isnt getting enough business they lower prices to get more demand. They can lower the prices until they feel they are low enough to get enough people to buy but still high enough to make it worth while to make.
Like the guy above this said, crafters need to be paid for the time they invest. If they put in 10 hours of work to make something that only sells for 20 ses. They wont be making that item. Plus on top of that it makes no sense to have vendors that can have unlimited supply of items at a cost so low people one even make the item.
I dont see your MANY people. People are not quiting because the game doesnt allow people to live a long time on a small amount of ses, or the fact that it might or might not cost more to play the game then 500ses a month. People are quiting because the game is fking broke. But its not the verm thats broke its a ton of other things, like lack of combat, poor AI, crashes. ETC..
Holy moly whats up with the 4+ accounts??? What exactly can you do with 4+ accounts that you can't do with 1?????
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Originally posted by Briansho Holy moly whats up with the 4+ accounts??? What exactly can you do with 4+ accounts that you can't do with 1?????
Mostly because there was training issues with the lack of people playing, so I would dual or triple box accounts so I could do training. Plus with the extra accounts you could have like 4 sites for storage. This was back before baskets which make it a lot easier to store things now.
Figured I would post one last time for you in hopes(I know pointless), that you would snap out of it...
".Due to many times we have seen individuals complain about prices of items and needed things in RV and not having enough Ses in which they start with..
Since you are a MORON(as you like to fling that name arround), I know you can't wrap your brain arround that comment. So I will explain again what I have been saying and what it means.
Those MANY INDIVIDUALS, he was talking about were new players that were lied to by RB saying that 500ses(that you start with for account purchase) would last a month, but when they saw the insanely high prices of a sword running 1000ses and a hamata running 10-20k ses and shields running 500ses they (unlike you), knew instantly that RV's verm system and their comments on 500 ses lasting a month or more was a bold faced lie.
They (unlike you) know that if and when many players started to flow into RV that they would get their base price ideas from the NPC vendors and price according to the time it took them to make something, unlike the FEW remaining players now in game know that they cannot do that if they want to make a living.
So again the prices would be pretty much identical to NPC's and that my friend cannot support living on 500 ses a month... figure it out already.
Whether or not you accept it, you my friend are a fanboi, you defend one feature like it is holding the game together with such frevor that you don't take the time to actually think about the whole picture and how that one feature (reguardless that it HAS contributed), contributes to the current lack of players willing to be in the game.
This game will fail not because of a lack of players, those few (mainly augir), will stick with it till it dies verming as much as he/they can, but overall the game will fail because of a lack of income. Because noone is willing to verm cause they know that they can make a living in the game and don't need to waste RL money. And those that were willing to verm(like me and many others) know that the prices don't allow you to survive for anywhere near a month if you play the game... So the remaining few that would have vermed just won't and will adopt the mentality of you and the other non-vermers to survive.
Verm was to support both parties in the game. Non-vermers would have been the work horses with lots of freetime and could make something and build up through work. Vermers were those that can't play all the time but SHOULD have been able to build up their fortune and posessions on the extra verm beyond the 500ses a month they been saving.
Only problem is RB made verming such a watse and prices so high that Vermers saw it was just stupid to invest so they don't but the non-vermers are left unaffected. And have preached about how you can make it without it and those (would be) vermers that have a little more time have fallen right in to that non-verm mentality of work for it and be fine no need to verm.
The whole idea behind Verm has been lost in translation allong the way. True it dosen't affect the players... they can make it trhough just work either individual or team work, the ones it will affect in the end are the ones making the game RB, and it will ultimatly lead to the lack of funding that will shut this game down.
So again I say, hang in there till the dire end that is fast approaching. Enjoy it for what you can. And continue to disreguard the obvious facts that are presented before you.
Ohh and in the words of those remaining players in this game, "Don't verm their is no need, you can make a living just fine working a little bit in the game each month.........................."
Again, just because someone says something doesnt mean its true. Again (Yes I already said this to your other comment) Lucii is saying that to get people to buy from THEM instead of others.
RV has gave people 5k to start with and thats MORE then enough to last months.
Sure if you go out and buy all your EQ from the highest priced places in the game, its not going to last as long as others that done. Not only that if you buy ALL your items enough of getting others to help you, with guilds or what not, its going to last even less. However, those newbs were NOT out of ses when they made these comments only that they thought it was high.
I know I was there talking to these newbs they still had 3 or 4k left, sometimes they had 100% of the starting ses left and were just afraid to buy with it. After talking to them they understood that buying from the vendors was dumb. I guess you cant understand that idea.
You do have 1 thing right is that the game will fail if it has a lack of funds from people putting money in for verm. But you try to pin it on the fact that verming isnt worth it. While thats totally not true. The game is having a lack of funds problem not because people are not willing to verm because its not worth, but because they are not verming because they are not playing a broke game. Its not the econ thats broke its the other parts of the game. See how one has nothing to do with the other?
Verm is NOT broke, its worth it to people that have money in real life and dont want to spend hours to work in a game just to get what they need, they verm to get it. Its worth it to them to spend the 10 or 20$ to get ses in game without having to work hours on hours to get either ses or items.
The reason why there isnt much verming going on is because players are not playing the game due to the fact of all the crashing, the lag, the lack of combat skill, the lack of AI, the buggy code in so many ways. The lack of content, the lack of options for LLMs to control the boards. Thats why people are not playing, which is also why there isnt much being vermed. Its not a big cover up.
See your way, you are saying that verm is broke thus is why no one does it. Well if that was the only and main problem wouldnt there be tons of people playing it for free? Like other free MMOs? Where are all these people? Surely they are not hiding on unnamed boards are they?
Again, just because someone says something doesnt mean its true. Again (Yes I already said this to your other comment) Lucii is saying that to get people to buy from THEM instead of others. LOL, you are funny. So you think I am the only one out of 5k people that felt this way, yet you dismiss away comments from others on the same thing... RV has gave people 5k to start with and thats MORE then enough to last months. Oops, my fault thats what I meant... 5k to start 500 to last a month is what they said... Thanks for correcting that for me. Sure if you go out and buy all your EQ from the highest priced places in the game, its not going to last as long as others that done. Not only that if you buy ALL your items enough of getting others to help you, with guilds or what not, its going to last even less. However, those newbs were NOT out of ses when they made these comments only that they thought it was high. I agree that will burn up some money. But where they hell else they supposed to buy what they need when the game dosen't even have hardly anyone playing??? And then couple that with the time's people play??? And figure unless they log in to play for their short ammount of time they have(remember talking about people that don't have all day here) what the hell else are they supposed to do? I know I know you can't seem to grasp that ...
I know I was there talking to these newbs they still had 3 or 4k left, sometimes they had 100% of the starting ses left and were just afraid to buy with it. After talking to them they understood that buying from the vendors was dumb. I guess you cant understand that idea. I understood that just fine after a short time... But for players that don't log in at normal peak hours(and noone is arround to help them) they are just SOL huh? You do have 1 thing right is that the game will fail if it has a lack of funds from people putting money in for verm. But you try to pin it on the fact that verming isnt worth it. While thats totally not true. The game is having a lack of funds problem not because people are not willing to verm because its not worth, but because they are not verming because they are not playing a broke game. Its not the econ thats broke its the other parts of the game. See how one has nothing to do with the other? You act as though I am saying the game is failing solely because of verm... have you not read any of my other posts? Have you not listened when I said yeah a bunch of stuff is broke in this game...? But you just cannot accept that yeah verm and prices are also a factor for players...... HELLO WAKE UP I AM ONE OF THEM!!!! Mind you that most of them have just said screw this game and left I had(kinda have) hopes for this game still and stuck arround... Posting and talking to hard heads like you lol. Verm is NOT broke, its worth it to people that have money in real life and dont want to spend hours to work in a game just to get what they need, they verm to get it. Its worth it to them to spend the 10 or 20$ to get ses in game without having to work hours on hours to get either ses or items. Sure wish that were true.... I was spending $39... and it wasn't. How much were you spending each month again? The reason why there isnt much verming going on is because players are not playing the game due to the fact of all the crashing, the lag, the lack of combat skill, the lack of AI, the buggy code in so many ways. The lack of content, the lack of options for LLMs to control the boards. Thats why people are not playing, which is also why there isnt much being vermed. Its not a big cover up. Yeah that also is why...done said that many times. See your way, you are saying that verm is broke thus is why no one does it. Well if that was the only and main problem wouldnt there be tons of people playing it for free? Like other free MMOs? Where are all these people? Surely they are not hiding on unnamed boards are they? My way you have yet to understand so you cannot comment on it properly... Here is just one example for ya simple and short. Do you think that a game should charge $80 dollars for an item that nearly all soldiers would have had or needed? And for a item that will break(from use) or be looted upon your death in a laggy game? Well RV does it is called a hamata..... (and yeah you might be able to find one a little (a little) cheaper now a days) And no, I don't have a problem with loot in PVP, actually I prefer full loot, but in this game you can loose alot of money and it is RL money... No biggy for those that just worked for it or mooched of a guild to get it but for those that paid RL cash for it it is UNACCEPTABLE...
I am sorry that you can't undertsand that I really am. RB can't either and it is costing them players I am one and I can assure you I am not the only one. And yeah the other problems wore on me too but I could over look alot of them, like the uglyness and all the LLM and AI and lack of content problems, mainly because of the friendly community(largely my guild), but not while spending a small fortune on a game like that too..... And yeah I know you will say you don't have to spend money...then refer back to point one time constraints... This arguement can go on forever so I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.....
Originally posted by shane910 Do you think that a game should charge $80 dollars for an item that nearly all soldiers would have had or needed? And for a item that will break(from use) or be looted upon your death in a laggy game? Well RV does it is called a hamata..... (and yeah you might be able to find one a little (a little) cheaper now a days) And no, I don't have a problem with loot in PVP, actually I prefer full loot, but in this game you can loose alot of money and it is RL money... No biggy for those that just worked for it or mooched of a guild to get it but for those that paid RL cash for it it is UNACCEPTABLE...
I am sorry that you can't undertsand that I really am. RB can't either and it is costing them players I am one and I can assure you I am not the only one. And yeah the other problems wore on me too but I could over look alot of them, like the uglyness and all the LLM and AI and lack of content problems, mainly because of the friendly community(largely my guild), but not while spending a small fortune on a game like that too..... And yeah I know you will say you don't have to spend money...then refer back to point one time constraints... This arguement can go on forever so I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.....
Why not charge 80$ dollars for items in the game? I dont see a problem with it. Other games do it. SRO, Archlord. Heck they are more sometimes.
Plus you are not looking at the real price, you are looking at the prices while the game is lacking playres. Once the game is NOT broke, people will be playing lowering those costs a LOT.
You are saying lower the price lower the price. So sure ya ok it might keep people playing longer right now of the ones that want to verm, but the crafters will all quit. Now look at it the other way. If you leave the price like it is now, crafters are happy with that price, vermers are like man Im not going to pay 80$ for an item in this buggy game. But if the game were fixed, they wouldnt have any problems paying that.
You are only looking at it from one side, you are looking at it because you like to verm and dont know what you are really asking for. What you are asking for is going to BREAK the econ not make it better. Do you understand that?
Im not saying that some people are not upset with the verm prices. Does that mean those people are right? No they are like you, they see a broke game and few people playing it and say its not worth to verm.
If the game was working , and they didnt change the verm everything would be working fine. Now look at it your way samething. If the game were workign in other ways, and they changed the verm and the prices like you say, then even after the game is fixed verm would now be broke. So that goes that your way is NOT the right way.
Your way is not going to fix it for anyone but YOU and the others like you, while breaking it for crafters. Its not a fix of the problem. The fix to this problem is to fix the rest of the game to make verming worth it.
That was a much better post you made there, I must admit. Without name calling you can get a point accross much better and we can have a conversation worth having.
I agree and see that if the game had a community of players large enough to support RB's idea of an economy that $80 dollars for an Item may be acceptable... But for the record those games you mentioned suck lol , had to point that out.
The main point I was making is that this game needs players now, and players that will be willing to invest, as I and many were when we first came to this game. And trust me I am not looking at it from one side I am trying to see both sides.
Largely seen in my suggestion on selecting Ql of items you are about to craft and that determening the time needed to craft the tiems. if you think about it that would allow new players now and even new players later to be able to buy cheap items for an acceptable rate and crafters to be able to produce and it be worth their time, for lower ql cheap items. As well as put time into making high ql items for the same rates as they are now and need the same ammount of time... so my idea isn't breaking the economy it is just correcting it for the lack of players currently in game atm, while allowing it to be the same as it is now but just for the high ql items when that in flux of players start coming in.
I have put some thought into this suggestion I didn't just randomly pull it out of thin air , cause trust me I want the game to do well and want to be playing it or I would not even bother with the sheer volume of posts I have made since release.
With the crafters able to select their ql(and that lowering time needed) they would be able to feel like they are making progress quicker while learning crafting, since it would be best to craft Ql items at the skill lvl ypu are at so it would be beneficial for new crafters. The items new crafters turn out while "grinding up their skills", would be supporting the rest of the new players buying those cheaper low ql items for lower prices. So that those new players can grind up their skills for a fair price like it needs to be for just training and like most MMO's are in the begining for new players.
Now once they have progressed far enough allong where buying better and more expensive gear would be worth the investment and they can actually make good use of it, that part of RB's economy that you are talking about and I agree with , would still be in place and the crafters that put in that hard time making it will get their much earned return.
Really I am looking for a solution that will fix the game now, while not screwing it up once we get that influx of players we had hoped RV would get all allong. This would just grease the wheels making it easier on those new players (so they don't leave)while allowing the higher functions to remain the same for where it really matters later in game once they are ready and willng(have the skills,both char skills and game knowledge) to invest in better more expensive stuff and it not be a waste.
I know my suggestion ain't 100% perfect but if you try to understand what I am saying and try to see the benefits you would know I just want the game to do well and thats why I bother posting on the game in the first place... Maybe you could help me to refine it since you seem to know alot about RV's economy and have been arround the game alot longer than I have?
Anyways, hope ya understand where I am coming from a little better after reading that, verm is not totally broke it is just broke for the current state of the game(lack of players and buggy) and not exactly new player friendly enough to attract and keep new players.
Ps: Hopefully you will understand and offer suggestions like, make the low Ql items slightly less effective, and the higher Ql items more effective, so that it creates a demand and need to get the better stuff later in the game once you are done grinding and burning up items for training and ready to get into some hardcore PVP.
Holy moly whats up with the 4+ accounts??? What exactly can you do with 4+ accounts that you can't do with 1?????
Mostly because there was training issues with the lack of people playing, so I would dual or triple box accounts so I could do training. Plus with the extra accounts you could have like 4 sites for storage. This was back before baskets which make it a lot easier to store things now.
Multiboxing is a form of cheating. Were you botting also? Cmon, be honest.
Originally posted by RedwoodSap Originally posted by MrDDT
Originally posted by Briansho Holy moly whats up with the 4+ accounts??? What exactly can you do with 4+ accounts that you can't do with 1?????
Mostly because there was training issues with the lack of people playing, so I would dual or triple box accounts so I could do training. Plus with the extra accounts you could have like 4 sites for storage. This was back before baskets which make it a lot easier to store things now.
Multiboxing is a form of cheating. Were you botting also? Cmon, be honest.
First off, multiboxing could mean many things. Having 3 or 4 computers (like I do) you can multibox and not be cheating at all.
Second off, its not cheating because 1) I told RB about it. Yes I talk straight to the devs all the time, and 2) Why would they care?
I did have 2 accounts running on my computer at the sametime. RB didnt know you could do that however, they never told me to stop nor did they stop me from doing it after I told them how I was doing it.
So you call it what you will, Im not in fear of being banned at all. I dont know any game where mutliboxing is cheating.
Ive never made a botting program for RV. Something which Im sure people can do it because its not that hard to do make if you know a bit about it.
Originally posted by shane910 Ps: Hopefully you will understand and offer suggestions like, make the low Ql items slightly less effective, and the higher Ql items more effective, so that it creates a demand and need to get the better stuff later in the game once you are done grinding and burning up items for training and ready to get into some hardcore PVP. Thanks and later, Shane
About the first part of your post that I didnt quote. You cant put something into the game that you will have to change later once the player base is fixed. If RB fixes the crashing, combat system and lag/low fps. People will come back. Now will people come back if they change verm? yes but it will also hurt the players that stuck it out, also those players that come back most likely wont stay long in a broke game either way. So the first changes you are talking about make no sense to do it. Its much better to fix the rest of the game that they have to do either way.
Now about lower QL items being less effective. Im 100% in agreement with you, and in fact if you look through my posts I already posted that samething. Which RB has done a little bit with but not enough in my mind.
Did you know that a higher QL weapon and armor have more effect then a lower QL? Thats not even saying that you can repair it more, but just that they are more effective.
Ps: Hopefully you will understand and offer suggestions like, make the low Ql items slightly less effective, and the higher Ql items more effective, so that it creates a demand and need to get the better stuff later in the game once you are done grinding and burning up items for training and ready to get into some hardcore PVP.
Thanks and later,
Shane
About the first part of your post that I didnt quote. You cant put something into the game that you will have to change later once the player base is fixed.
What do you mean by having to change it later on? My suggestion would be permanent not needing to be removed. And it would be helping make crafting skill gains more interactive. Instead of the cut and dry way of making the crafters spend the same ammount of time on a Ql 10 item as they do on a 99ql item like it is currently, they can choose to make the items at their skill lvl for better gains. So if they are skill lvl 15 in smithing and they make a sword they choose to make a Ql 12-16ql sword, which make it's time needed lower and their success rate a little higher(alot can be done there like chance of failure higher if you try to make something beyond your skill, aslo a chance of total failure if they push it too far). So they work up to making the higher Ql stuff gradually all that low ql stuff they make is for the new players to train with. And even once they are max skill lvl they can choose to make a bundle of low QL stuff for their guild to use for training gear... So it will still be usefull to have it later on in the game.
If RB fixes the crashing, combat system and lag/low fps. People will come back. Now will people come back if they change verm? yes but it will also hurt the players that stuck it out, also those players that come back most likely wont stay long in a broke game either way. So the first changes you are talking about make no sense to do it. Its much better to fix the rest of the game that they have to do either way.
I agree that they need to fix the rest of the game too, and it's import is high. Even if they fix all the rest it is still not gonna be worth it to train with the good stuff they need to have the low ql items for training and they need to be cheap as they are pretty much throw away gear you know it is not going to last.
And you have to admit my suggestion would be nice for crafters and would make it a hell of alot less of a drag on time for them especially new players, so IMO if players do start coming back to the game we would likley have alot more crafters. Hell I might craft if it didn't require the same ammount of time even if you can only make a low Ql item (cause of skill)as it does to make a high Ql item of the same type. And crafters galore is what this game needs for the economy to balace out a bit to make the game like they said it would be.
Now about lower QL items being less effective. Im 100% in agreement with you, and in fact if you look through my posts I already posted that samething. Which RB has done a little bit with but not enough in my mind.
Yeah like you said, not enough though, so agreed.
Did you know that a higher QL weapon and armor have more effect then a lower QL? Thats not even saying that you can repair it more, but just that they are more effective.
Yeah, it's just not even enough where it is worth mentioning though atm.
Sa again this is something to be done in conjunction with the rest of the fixes as making crafting more fun and interactive is gonna be a big pull for alot of players that want to craft And allow the low ql items to be used in the manner in which I suggested which will make the verm more acceptable as well for new players. While leaving the high ql items and the time needed to make them and their value at the same level they are currently. My suggestion just adds a perk to the game for those new players all arround, while not removing or taking away from the game for the players that are and will put in alot of time getting to high skill lvls. it wouldn't need to be removed, as like I mentioned even the higher skilled would have use for it when it comes to supplying their new players for training. And don't forget the bulk crafting I mentioned a few posts back as it should be in there too(will help with supplying the guild those training items more than making high ql items, as it would be faster). But again bulk crafting would take alot longer than individual item crafting and still require the same ammont of itmes as if you made them all individually, just not requiring the use of many of the same peices equipment to do it (like furnaces ect) as that is kinda lame IMO and ugly when looking at the area. So each guild would require one of each type of equipment needed and have a small area dedicated to each craft (preferable indoors)instead of a feild of them...
Kemarik, are you one of the $2000+ donators? I noticed a 2k vote was placed at about the same time you posted. If so, I never realized you had donated so much.
Originally posted by MrDDT: Second off, its not cheating because 1) I told RB about it. Yes I talk straight to the devs all the time, and 2) Why would they care?
I did have 2 accounts running on my computer at the sametime. RB didnt know you could do that however, they never told me to stop nor did they stop me from doing it after I told them how I was doing it.
Yep, I remember seeing a post by KFR himself stating that running multiple accounts was not prohibited. He did say RB would not support it, but he has also said they do not support Windows Vista, and players are running RV on Vista.
In otherwords, it's outside the technical support that RB wishes to offer, but it's not considered cheating.
Shane what you fail to understand is that things are changing. Also if you put sales so low for items then crafters wont make those items because they wont gain any money for their time.
Your low QL items come into play when you have people that are lower skilled, something thats just been put into the game with skill decay being much more harsh, now people are no longer going to be masters of everything.
This game will have both crafters and warriors once its fixed. If anything its more geared to the crafters then warriors. Your idea would really hurt crafters not help. Sure a few would pick up the trade because it would make it easier to make lower QL items, however, most wouldnt, and many hardcore crafters would suffer for it.
If they made high end crafted items worth a lot more not just in ses (meaning the vendors didnt sell them or sold them really high, higher then now) and give these items big bonuses to things then ya I can understand your point. But lowering the time to make lower QL items dosnt make sense in a few ways. 1)Why would it be must faster to make a low QL Mouldframe vs a high QL Mouldframe? It wouldnt really. 2)Your prices would kill the high QL item market because what would be the use to have a high QL item? 3) It still wouldnt fix the problem that either you would have people not willing to make the lower items because its not worth the time, or the higher QL items wouldnt be worth it. You cant really have both.
Shane what you fail to understand is that things are changing.
Also if you put sales so low for items then crafters wont make those items because they wont gain any money for their time. You Are not trying to understand what I am saying, and if you don't then yeah you get the conclusion that you came to... Players would want and need to have the higher Ql items once they are higher skilled as it would help the Ql of the action they are trying to complete..... (those bonuses for Higher Ql items) For example crafters needing a higher Ql hammer to make higher ql items or a fighter needing a higher Ql weapon to even hit a higher skilled fighter for any real damaging damage... Your low QL items come into play when you have people that are lower skilled, something thats just been put into the game with skill decay being much more harsh, now people are no longer going to be masters of everything. Are you trying to say that high skilled players are gonna be low skilled since the skill decay? I don't think that is gonna be the case at all. And higher skilled players can find some used for low ql items as well like pell training to maintain skill ...why waste a good weapon just for training? This game will have both crafters and warriors once its fixed. If anything its more geared to the crafters then warriors. Your idea would really hurt crafters not help. Sure a few would pick up the trade because it would make it easier to make lower QL items, however, most wouldnt, and many hardcore crafters would suffer for it. Crafters would not suffer for it they would be gaining faster in the low skill range as they are completing things faster and gain more for making items arround their skill lvl. And the need for high and low ql items would be high...but for the higher skilled they would mainly need the high Ql items while the low skilled would need the low ql items. If they made high end crafted items worth a lot more not just in ses (meaning the vendors didnt sell them or sold them really high, higher then now) and give these items big bonuses to things then ya I can understand your point. But lowering the time to make lower QL items dosnt make sense in a few ways. I am saying keep the prices for high Ql items the way they are, and give bonuses, only lower the prices for low Ql items and they are really only good for training... Crafting or fighting training.
1)Why would it be must faster to make a low QL Mouldframe vs a high QL Mouldframe? It wouldnt really. 1. for a low Ql tool you would get low ql results on the end product. 2. You put more time into making a high Ql item than you do to make a basic cheap version of the same thing.
2)Your prices would kill the high QL item market because what would be the use to have a high QL item? 1. To be more effective in whatever that item is used for. 2. So you don't have to replace it constantly as things are taking longer as you move into the higher ql and higher skilled areas that they do while you are low skilled and working on low Ql projects. (more wear and tear to deal with)
3) It still wouldnt fix the problem that either you would have people not willing to make the lower items because its not worth the time, or the higher QL items wouldnt be worth it. You cant really have both. You can have both, as both would be needed as I explained in my suggestion. Low ql... 1. Because low ql items don't take much time to make. 2. Because they are mainly for training. High ql... 1. Because high ql items would be for higher skilled players that require stronger and better tools and weapons. 2. Would be worth it because high ql items would have the same value they have in game currently since they take the same time to make as they do now.
I am not saying change the time to make high Ql items ... I am saying make it so you can make low ql items by setting the ql you are gonna make and scale the time and price for them down from the values that are in place now... So that the times and prices in place now are still in place once you reach that lvl of skill. Shane
Originally posted by shane910 Originally posted by MrDDT Shane what you fail to understand is that things are changing. Also if you put sales so low for items then crafters wont make those items because they wont gain any money for their time.
You Are not trying to understand what I am saying, and if you don't then yeah you get the conclusion that you came to... Players would want and need to have the higher Ql items once they are higher skilled as it would help the Ql of the action they are trying to complete..... (those bonuses for Higher Ql items) For example crafters needing a higher Ql hammer to make higher ql items or a fighter needing a higher Ql weapon to even hit a higher skilled fighter for any real damaging damage... Your low QL items come into play when you have people that are lower skilled, something thats just been put into the game with skill decay being much more harsh, now people are no longer going to be masters of everything. Are you trying to say that high skilled players are gonna be low skilled since the skill decay? I don't think that is gonna be the case at all. And higher skilled players can find some used for low ql items as well like pell training to maintain skill ...why waste a good weapon just for training?
So how you would require high end crafters to use high end items? That sounds like a punishment to those crafters.
You can already make lower QL items, they are already in the game. What you are asking is to allow these lower QL items to be crafted faster right? Well if they are crafted faster, then the high QL items are slower (by default do you understand that? Im not saying slower then it is now just saying slower). So how do you balance out the fact that making an item that is faster to make but lower QL vs an item that is slower to make but higher QL? If you have the low QL wear out really fast, then why would people train with that item?
Its the same problem all over again. Why would they do that? Its fine like it is, lower QL items sell for less already. Most people dont make lower QL items because its NOT WORTH IT!!! Most people dont WANT lower QL items because its not WORTH IT. Do you understand this? I dont know how tomake this more clear to you. NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY LOWER QL ITEMS BECAUSE ITS NOT WORTH IT!.
If you make it worth it to buy lower QL items NO ONE IS GOING TO USE HIGHER QL ITEMS. If you force people to use higher QL items you are only punishing the people that uses items.
I understand all the things you say , but listen to me you cant balance it anymore then it already is, what you are asking for is to UNBALANCE IT. You want it to be in favor of lower QL items which are cheaper. But its already balanced. You know why people dont make low QL items? Because of 2 reasons 1) They are masters of everything already. 2) Its not what people want.
Shane what you fail to understand is that things are changing.
Also if you put sales so low for items then crafters wont make those items because they wont gain any money for their time.
You Are not trying to understand what I am saying, and if you don't then yeah you get the conclusion that you came to...
Players would want and need to have the higher Ql items once they are higher skilled as it would help the Ql of the action they are trying to complete..... (those bonuses for Higher Ql items)
For example crafters needing a higher Ql hammer to make higher ql items or a fighter needing a higher Ql weapon to even hit a higher skilled fighter for any real damaging damage...
Your low QL items come into play when you have people that are lower skilled, something thats just been put into the game with skill decay being much more harsh, now people are no longer going to be masters of everything.
Are you trying to say that high skilled players are gonna be low skilled since the skill decay? I don't think that is gonna be the case at all.
And higher skilled players can find some used for low ql items as well like pell training to maintain skill ...why waste a good weapon just for training?
So how you would require high end crafters to use high end items? That sounds like a punishment to those crafters.
They would naturally want to use higher Ql items so they don't have to replace them so often working on the longer higher ql projects...
Plus (like we had said) higher Ql items would be better and result in having a better end product.
You can already make lower QL items, they are already in the game. What you are asking is to allow these lower QL items to be crafted faster right? Well if they are crafted faster, then the high QL items are slower (by default do you understand that? Im not saying slower then it is now just saying slower). So how do you balance out the fact that making an item that is faster to make but lower QL vs an item that is slower to make but higher QL? If you have the low QL wear out really fast, then why would people train with that item?
No no no... You can make high Ql items and low Ql items by using low Ql stuff to make it or high ql stuff... But reguardless it takes the same ammount of time so that is why noone makes them...
And I said a bunch of times now that the high Ql items times NOW, should stay the same... only scale back the times FROM THAT for the lower QL items...
Example would be time to make a 99 Ql item now, say it takes(just example) 30 mins, now to make a Ql 50 (for my suggestion) would take about 15 mins... So the time for high Ql items would stay the same try to understand that...
As far as making them being worth it , it would... for both.
You would use the low ql for training CAUSE THEY ARE CHEAPER....Much cheaper..
The high Ql ones are worth it because they are better more effective items... And they actually last a long time as a Higher Ql one should for the cost...
Its the same problem all over again. Why would they do that? Its fine like it is, lower QL items sell for less already. Most people dont make lower QL items because its NOT WORTH IT!!! Most people dont WANT lower QL items because its not WORTH IT. Do you understand this? I dont know how tomake this more clear to you. NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY LOWER QL ITEMS BECAUSE ITS NOT WORTH IT!.
Would be with my suggestion.... And WTF is the point, in this economy, of having low Ql items as they are atm??? They should have a part in there somewhere in a real economy, as they do in my suggestion...
If you make it worth it to buy lower QL items NO ONE IS GOING TO USE HIGHER QL ITEMS. If you force people to use higher QL items you are only punishing the people that uses items.
/Sigh.... Again because high Ql items are better last longer and get better results.....
I understand all the things you say , but listen to me you cant balance it anymore then it already is, what you are asking for is to UNBALANCE IT. You want it to be in favor of lower QL items which are cheaper. But its already balanced. You know why people dont make low QL items? Because of 2 reasons
1) They are masters of everything already.
2) Its not what people want.
They would be wanted for training if it was set up the way I suggested and masters of their trade would make them just for players to train with... As per my suggestion.
Beyond training, players would need good high Ql gear to be effective at making high Ql gear and to be good at PVP.
Comments
KFR also said that the figures of $1500 and $1000 posted by Vlad and Vepgenus were not right, probably not by only $10 though. I'm sure they just threw out a rough guess. Anyone with over $1000 spent would have to do some accounting to figure out their total - since you can only buy 10,000 Sesterces or $40 worth at a time.
They might be surprised themselves.
And, one can only imagine how much Augir has spent; probably more than all the other VERM purchases combined. He's definately RB's biggest supporter.
NPC vendors should sell items of low QL for low prices(this is even if they leave the high Ql prices the way they are). NPC Prices and QL should be similar to the following: 50ses for 10-15Ql shield, 25ses for 10-15QL spear, 75ses for 10-15QL sword and 100ses for 10-15QL armor and 45ses for 10-15QL helm.
(and thats all they should sell... anything better and they have to turn to the players)
(also the durability of items shoud be slightly increased to last longer, so they dont break after only 10-14 reapirs or if they do it they last a bit longer inbetween repairs)
This would be resonable and within the 500ses a month ammount as RB said it would last ya.(but read on)
Crafters should be able to set the QL for the project they are working on before they start it. This would lower their crafting times depending upon the QL of item they are trying to make. Lower for low Ql higher for high QL.
Also an option to make more than one item at a time on one peice of equipment, so (for example)if they were going to smelt ore they could select to smelt 1,2,3 ect on up to 99 at a time and the time's would increase accordingly. Same for the actual items if they had the needed ammounts of each item needed to create the items. QL of the smelted ore would depend on the QL you set and the skill of the player smelting it.
For the crafters also, if they are low skilled and cannot make a 99QL item, they don't have to waste the same ammount of time as they would currently. And could skill up accordingly. So if you are currently lvl 30 in baking you could set to make QL 10-35 effectivly, but could try for higher at higher craft times and higher probabability of not doing so well and getting a lower QL item.
That would make crafting less of a drag for crafters, and it would make buying gear less of a drag for new players, removing the rip off that current NPC's are. As you know as well as I do they have to use them if noone is arround (and the world is nearly empty ATM). And they would know that to get better stuff they have to turn to players, and since this crafting would be more rewarding and slightly more entertaining more folks would(possibly) be doing it, so new players would have more folks to buy from.
Seems that they would be relativley simple changes to implement that don't require drastic changes to the current system just some imputs as to the ql lvl your are aiming for and the system to determine the outcome of the attempt. And a few changes to NPc merchant stock and prices.
Yeah it would require players getting used to the change but overall it adds alot of interesting options to the crafting as well as gives new payers a chance to gain skills and learn about the game a bit before they are blindsided by players wheeling and dealings.
Why don't you reply to that first... As I have no desire to wander arround in that POS ATM, especially not to relive what I already went through and know, just to try and prove a point to you that is obvious to so many others that have left the game totaly.
I might later on but not now... I will even pull up those posts for ya I mentioned.
Just give that suggestion some real though and don't just blow it off. Really think about how it would improve the game not just how it is different and will require getting used to a tiny bit of change, that you keep saying dosen't matter to you or anyone with a brain(like you said a bunch of times)... As they don't use NPC vendors anyways right? And think as a crafter on the rest of it on how it would make the crafting more interesting more fun and more rewarding.
Ok again, I will post to this because you dont seem to understand. But Im not going to comment on everything because you cant follow it.
Now your idea is this, make everything cheaper right? Now what about crafters? You just made these items that take HOURS of building time to craft as much or less then a firewood pile. Now tell me, how or why would a crafter build anything with those prices?
Also you are talking about items that last hours and hours and hours, that take hours to make costing so little that they could take the items that took to make it, sell it to the scrap NPC for almost as much as the end cost of the item.
Sorry but your version of what the prices should be is way off. Now sure if they balanced everything it might work, but then again you still have the problem is you are just changing the price of the verm. What you should be saying is that verm isnt worth the price (even though it is to a lot of people) You believe that people should be getting like 1000ses per 1$ instead of only 250ses.
-MrDDT
DDT, He wants everything to be really easy (and cheap) and he simply won't understand the relationship between labor, incentive, and reward. I have not read his novels he has posted here in this thread (my usual method since many months ago), but based on your well written and logical responses, it seems you are trying to teach him that very relationship and he is just not seeing it. Just join me and give up. It's so pleasant on this side.
Ok again, I will post to this because you dont seem to understand. But Im not going to comment on everything because you cant follow it.
Now your idea is this, make everything cheaper right? Now what about crafters? You just made these items that take HOURS of building time to craft as much or less then a firewood pile. Now tell me, how or why would a crafter build anything with those prices?
Also you are talking about items that last hours and hours and hours, that take hours to make costing so little that they could take the items that took to make it, sell it to the scrap NPC for almost as much as the end cost of the item.
Sorry but your version of what the prices should be is way off. Now sure if they balanced everything it might work, but then again you still have the problem is you are just changing the price of the verm. What you should be saying is that verm isnt worth the price (even though it is to a lot of people) You believe that people should be getting like 1000ses per 1$ instead of only 250ses.
LMFAO, you read the first paragraph and post on it without bothering to read what I had said was a package deal.... Ofcourse it dosen't make sense read the rest of it... Ohh in in 5 secs of looking I found you one of the many posts that are in RV forums on complaints about vrem or ses... http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?t=21136&highlight=sesWill keep posting them. If you bother to read it (yeah started as a guild hall discussion)he goes on to complain about how high the price of the hamata is 10k ses (but was 20k last one I saw) these were early posts...and I saw you in there defending the high prices back then lol ... Will dig a few more up for ya im the meantime why don't ya finish reading the suggestion I made so it does make sense...
Hmmmmm, read the first post here...
".Due to many times we have seen individuals complain about prices of items and needed things in RV and not having enough Ses in which they start with.. LOL says it all...
http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?t=20874&highlight=ses
Seen many posts from you DDT, saying the prices should be higher and crafting needing more timesinks(durrig beta it seems)... lol I guess we know why you are so adamant about defending it now... you helped get it that way...
You guys are hopeless... So I will just stop trying to explain it to ya lol. I am sure that you two will be hanging arround till they say sorry guys we are closed have to move on now... so I will leave ya to that, and then you can ponder why it happened amongst yourselves. Knowing you fanbois you will probably invest in RB's next venture too... LOL Since you obviously cannot learn from experiance and what others are saying...not just me open your eyes and read.
I will unsub from these topics and you can post away about how it is all fine and getting better lol... I think me and many others have made it quite clear how it really is, not many are gonna be stupid enough to fall in to the RV trap after a short read through these forums.
Guys its pretty simple isnt it? Time = money.
If something takes ages to make then it should fetch a high price due to the time needed to make it. If you want crafting to be long and complicated and involved then the items made need to be able to fetch a high price.
Not only that but the player crafters need to be able to undercut the NPC vendors with their homemade wares rather than players using the NPCs and crafting then being an impossible life because it takes ages to make stuff which you then can't sell!
So complicated crafting = pay more, crafted items should cost enough to cover the time spent making them but still be cheaper than buying from NPCs to keep the crafters in business.
Ya Im a fanboi haha. Maybe you should read some of my posts on here. Im sorry you are a moron but I guess someone has to set the lower end of the bar for others right?
Maybe you should read those posts you linked, the first is me saying the its balanced.
The second is about Lucii using it to promote their sales. Just because they are selling for super cheap (trust me I know why they are doing it). Doesnt mean that they feel the prices are to high, its them trying to get people to buy from them instead of others. Thats how it works. If someone isnt getting enough business they lower prices to get more demand. They can lower the prices until they feel they are low enough to get enough people to buy but still high enough to make it worth while to make.
Like the guy above this said, crafters need to be paid for the time they invest. If they put in 10 hours of work to make something that only sells for 20 ses. They wont be making that item. Plus on top of that it makes no sense to have vendors that can have unlimited supply of items at a cost so low people one even make the item.
I dont see your MANY people. People are not quiting because the game doesnt allow people to live a long time on a small amount of ses, or the fact that it might or might not cost more to play the game then 500ses a month. People are quiting because the game is fking broke. But its not the verm thats broke its a ton of other things, like lack of combat, poor AI, crashes. ETC..
-MrDDT
Holy moly whats up with the 4+ accounts??? What exactly can you do with 4+ accounts that you can't do with 1?????
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Mostly because there was training issues with the lack of people playing, so I would dual or triple box accounts so I could do training. Plus with the extra accounts you could have like 4 sites for storage. This was back before baskets which make it a lot easier to store things now.
-MrDDT
Figured I would post one last time for you in hopes(I know pointless), that you would snap out of it...
".Due to many times we have seen individuals complain about prices of items and needed things in RV and not having enough Ses in which they start with..
Since you are a MORON(as you like to fling that name arround), I know you can't wrap your brain arround that comment. So I will explain again what I have been saying and what it means.
Those MANY INDIVIDUALS, he was talking about were new players that were lied to by RB saying that 500ses(that you start with for account purchase) would last a month, but when they saw the insanely high prices of a sword running 1000ses and a hamata running 10-20k ses and shields running 500ses they (unlike you), knew instantly that RV's verm system and their comments on 500 ses lasting a month or more was a bold faced lie.
They (unlike you) know that if and when many players started to flow into RV that they would get their base price ideas from the NPC vendors and price according to the time it took them to make something, unlike the FEW remaining players now in game know that they cannot do that if they want to make a living.
So again the prices would be pretty much identical to NPC's and that my friend cannot support living on 500 ses a month... figure it out already.
Whether or not you accept it, you my friend are a fanboi, you defend one feature like it is holding the game together with such frevor that you don't take the time to actually think about the whole picture and how that one feature (reguardless that it HAS contributed), contributes to the current lack of players willing to be in the game.
This game will fail not because of a lack of players, those few (mainly augir), will stick with it till it dies verming as much as he/they can, but overall the game will fail because of a lack of income. Because noone is willing to verm cause they know that they can make a living in the game and don't need to waste RL money. And those that were willing to verm(like me and many others) know that the prices don't allow you to survive for anywhere near a month if you play the game... So the remaining few that would have vermed just won't and will adopt the mentality of you and the other non-vermers to survive.
Verm was to support both parties in the game. Non-vermers would have been the work horses with lots of freetime and could make something and build up through work. Vermers were those that can't play all the time but SHOULD have been able to build up their fortune and posessions on the extra verm beyond the 500ses a month they been saving.
Only problem is RB made verming such a watse and prices so high that Vermers saw it was just stupid to invest so they don't but the non-vermers are left unaffected. And have preached about how you can make it without it and those (would be) vermers that have a little more time have fallen right in to that non-verm mentality of work for it and be fine no need to verm.
The whole idea behind Verm has been lost in translation allong the way. True it dosen't affect the players... they can make it trhough just work either individual or team work, the ones it will affect in the end are the ones making the game RB, and it will ultimatly lead to the lack of funding that will shut this game down.
So again I say, hang in there till the dire end that is fast approaching. Enjoy it for what you can. And continue to disreguard the obvious facts that are presented before you.
Ohh and in the words of those remaining players in this game, "Don't verm their is no need, you can make a living just fine working a little bit in the game each month.........................."
R.I.P RV
Again, just because someone says something doesnt mean its true. Again (Yes I already said this to your other comment) Lucii is saying that to get people to buy from THEM instead of others.
RV has gave people 5k to start with and thats MORE then enough to last months.
Sure if you go out and buy all your EQ from the highest priced places in the game, its not going to last as long as others that done. Not only that if you buy ALL your items enough of getting others to help you, with guilds or what not, its going to last even less. However, those newbs were NOT out of ses when they made these comments only that they thought it was high.
I know I was there talking to these newbs they still had 3 or 4k left, sometimes they had 100% of the starting ses left and were just afraid to buy with it. After talking to them they understood that buying from the vendors was dumb. I guess you cant understand that idea.
You do have 1 thing right is that the game will fail if it has a lack of funds from people putting money in for verm. But you try to pin it on the fact that verming isnt worth it. While thats totally not true. The game is having a lack of funds problem not because people are not willing to verm because its not worth, but because they are not verming because they are not playing a broke game. Its not the econ thats broke its the other parts of the game. See how one has nothing to do with the other?
Verm is NOT broke, its worth it to people that have money in real life and dont want to spend hours to work in a game just to get what they need, they verm to get it. Its worth it to them to spend the 10 or 20$ to get ses in game without having to work hours on hours to get either ses or items.
The reason why there isnt much verming going on is because players are not playing the game due to the fact of all the crashing, the lag, the lack of combat skill, the lack of AI, the buggy code in so many ways. The lack of content, the lack of options for LLMs to control the boards. Thats why people are not playing, which is also why there isnt much being vermed. Its not a big cover up.
See your way, you are saying that verm is broke thus is why no one does it. Well if that was the only and main problem wouldnt there be tons of people playing it for free? Like other free MMOs? Where are all these people? Surely they are not hiding on unnamed boards are they?
-MrDDT
Why not charge 80$ dollars for items in the game? I dont see a problem with it. Other games do it. SRO, Archlord. Heck they are more sometimes.
Plus you are not looking at the real price, you are looking at the prices while the game is lacking playres. Once the game is NOT broke, people will be playing lowering those costs a LOT.
You are saying lower the price lower the price. So sure ya ok it might keep people playing longer right now of the ones that want to verm, but the crafters will all quit. Now look at it the other way. If you leave the price like it is now, crafters are happy with that price, vermers are like man Im not going to pay 80$ for an item in this buggy game. But if the game were fixed, they wouldnt have any problems paying that.
You are only looking at it from one side, you are looking at it because you like to verm and dont know what you are really asking for. What you are asking for is going to BREAK the econ not make it better. Do you understand that?
Im not saying that some people are not upset with the verm prices. Does that mean those people are right? No they are like you, they see a broke game and few people playing it and say its not worth to verm.
If the game was working , and they didnt change the verm everything would be working fine.
Now look at it your way samething. If the game were workign in other ways, and they changed the verm and the prices like you say, then even after the game is fixed verm would now be broke. So that goes that your way is NOT the right way.
Your way is not going to fix it for anyone but YOU and the others like you, while breaking it for crafters. Its not a fix of the problem. The fix to this problem is to fix the rest of the game to make verming worth it.
-MrDDT
That was a much better post you made there, I must admit. Without name calling you can get a point accross much better and we can have a conversation worth having.
I agree and see that if the game had a community of players large enough to support RB's idea of an economy that $80 dollars for an Item may be acceptable... But for the record those games you mentioned suck lol , had to point that out.
The main point I was making is that this game needs players now, and players that will be willing to invest, as I and many were when we first came to this game. And trust me I am not looking at it from one side I am trying to see both sides.
Largely seen in my suggestion on selecting Ql of items you are about to craft and that determening the time needed to craft the tiems. if you think about it that would allow new players now and even new players later to be able to buy cheap items for an acceptable rate and crafters to be able to produce and it be worth their time, for lower ql cheap items. As well as put time into making high ql items for the same rates as they are now and need the same ammount of time... so my idea isn't breaking the economy it is just correcting it for the lack of players currently in game atm, while allowing it to be the same as it is now but just for the high ql items when that in flux of players start coming in.
I have put some thought into this suggestion I didn't just randomly pull it out of thin air
, cause trust me I want the game to do well and want to be playing it or I would not even bother with the sheer volume of posts I have made since release.
With the crafters able to select their ql(and that lowering time needed) they would be able to feel like they are making progress quicker while learning crafting, since it would be best to craft Ql items at the skill lvl ypu are at so it would be beneficial for new crafters. The items new crafters turn out while "grinding up their skills", would be supporting the rest of the new players buying those cheaper low ql items for lower prices. So that those new players can grind up their skills for a fair price like it needs to be for just training and like most MMO's are in the begining for new players.
Now once they have progressed far enough allong where buying better and more expensive gear would be worth the investment and they can actually make good use of it, that part of RB's economy that you are talking about and I agree with , would still be in place and the crafters that put in that hard time making it will get their much earned return.
Really I am looking for a solution that will fix the game now, while not screwing it up once we get that influx of players we had hoped RV would get all allong. This would just grease the wheels making it easier on those new players (so they don't leave)while allowing the higher functions to remain the same for where it really matters later in game once they are ready and willng(have the skills,both char skills and game knowledge) to invest in better more expensive stuff and it not be a waste.
I know my suggestion ain't 100% perfect but if you try to understand what I am saying and try to see the benefits you would know I just want the game to do well and thats why I bother posting on the game in the first place... Maybe you could help me to refine it since you seem to know alot about RV's economy and have been arround the game alot longer than I have?
Anyways, hope ya understand where I am coming from a little better after reading that, verm is not totally broke it is just broke for the current state of the game(lack of players and buggy) and not exactly new player friendly enough to attract and keep new players.
Ps: Hopefully you will understand and offer suggestions like, make the low Ql items slightly less effective, and the higher Ql items more effective, so that it creates a demand and need to get the better stuff later in the game once you are done grinding and burning up items for training and ready to get into some hardcore PVP.
Thanks and later,
Shane
Mostly because there was training issues with the lack of people playing, so I would dual or triple box accounts so I could do training. Plus with the extra accounts you could have like 4 sites for storage. This was back before baskets which make it a lot easier to store things now.
Multiboxing is a form of cheating. Were you botting also? Cmon, be honest.
Mostly because there was training issues with the lack of people playing, so I would dual or triple box accounts so I could do training. Plus with the extra accounts you could have like 4 sites for storage. This was back before baskets which make it a lot easier to store things now.
Multiboxing is a form of cheating. Were you botting also? Cmon, be honest.
First off, multiboxing could mean many things. Having 3 or 4 computers (like I do) you can multibox and not be cheating at all.
Second off, its not cheating because 1) I told RB about it. Yes I talk straight to the devs all the time, and 2) Why would they care?
I did have 2 accounts running on my computer at the sametime. RB didnt know you could do that however, they never told me to stop nor did they stop me from doing it after I told them how I was doing it.
So you call it what you will, Im not in fear of being banned at all. I dont know any game where mutliboxing is cheating.
Ive never made a botting program for RV. Something which Im sure people can do it because its not that hard to do make if you know a bit about it.
-MrDDT
About the first part of your post that I didnt quote. You cant put something into the game that you will have to change later once the player base is fixed.
If RB fixes the crashing, combat system and lag/low fps. People will come back. Now will people come back if they change verm? yes but it will also hurt the players that stuck it out, also those players that come back most likely wont stay long in a broke game either way. So the first changes you are talking about make no sense to do it. Its much better to fix the rest of the game that they have to do either way.
Now about lower QL items being less effective. Im 100% in agreement with you, and in fact if you look through my posts I already posted that samething. Which RB has done a little bit with but not enough in my mind.
Did you know that a higher QL weapon and armor have more effect then a lower QL? Thats not even saying that you can repair it more, but just that they are more effective.
-MrDDT
About the first part of your post that I didnt quote. You cant put something into the game that you will have to change later once the player base is fixed.
What do you mean by having to change it later on? My suggestion would be permanent not needing to be removed. And it would be helping make crafting skill gains more interactive. Instead of the cut and dry way of making the crafters spend the same ammount of time on a Ql 10 item as they do on a 99ql item like it is currently, they can choose to make the items at their skill lvl for better gains. So if they are skill lvl 15 in smithing and they make a sword they choose to make a Ql 12-16ql sword, which make it's time needed lower and their success rate a little higher(alot can be done there like chance of failure higher if you try to make something beyond your skill, aslo a chance of total failure if they push it too far). So they work up to making the higher Ql stuff gradually all that low ql stuff they make is for the new players to train with. And even once they are max skill lvl they can choose to make a bundle of low QL stuff for their guild to use for training gear... So it will still be usefull to have it later on in the game.
If RB fixes the crashing, combat system and lag/low fps. People will come back. Now will people come back if they change verm? yes but it will also hurt the players that stuck it out, also those players that come back most likely wont stay long in a broke game either way. So the first changes you are talking about make no sense to do it. Its much better to fix the rest of the game that they have to do either way.
I agree that they need to fix the rest of the game too, and it's import is high. Even if they fix all the rest it is still not gonna be worth it to train with the good stuff they need to have the low ql items for training and they need to be cheap as they are pretty much throw away gear you know it is not going to last.
And you have to admit my suggestion would be nice for crafters and would make it a hell of alot less of a drag on time for them especially new players, so IMO if players do start coming back to the game we would likley have alot more crafters. Hell I might craft if it didn't require the same ammount of time even if you can only make a low Ql item (cause of skill)as it does to make a high Ql item of the same type. And crafters galore is what this game needs for the economy to balace out a bit to make the game like they said it would be.
Now about lower QL items being less effective. Im 100% in agreement with you, and in fact if you look through my posts I already posted that samething. Which RB has done a little bit with but not enough in my mind.
Yeah like you said, not enough though, so agreed.
Did you know that a higher QL weapon and armor have more effect then a lower QL? Thats not even saying that you can repair it more, but just that they are more effective.
Yeah, it's just not even enough where it is worth mentioning though atm.
Sa again this is something to be done in conjunction with the rest of the fixes as making crafting more fun and interactive is gonna be a big pull for alot of players that want to craft And allow the low ql items to be used in the manner in which I suggested which will make the verm more acceptable as well for new players. While leaving the high ql items and the time needed to make them and their value at the same level they are currently. My suggestion just adds a perk to the game for those new players all arround, while not removing or taking away from the game for the players that are and will put in alot of time getting to high skill lvls. it wouldn't need to be removed, as like I mentioned even the higher skilled would have use for it when it comes to supplying their new players for training. And don't forget the bulk crafting I mentioned a few posts back as it should be in there too(will help with supplying the guild those training items more than making high ql items, as it would be faster). But again bulk crafting would take alot longer than individual item crafting and still require the same ammont of itmes as if you made them all individually, just not requiring the use of many of the same peices equipment to do it (like furnaces ect) as that is kinda lame IMO and ugly when looking at the area. So each guild would require one of each type of equipment needed and have a small area dedicated to each craft (preferable indoors)instead of a feild of them...
Shane
Kemarik, are you one of the $2000+ donators? I noticed a 2k vote was placed at about the same time you posted. If so, I never realized you had donated so much.
Yep, I remember seeing a post by KFR himself stating that running multiple accounts was not prohibited. He did say RB would not support it, but he has also said they do not support Windows Vista, and players are running RV on Vista.
In otherwords, it's outside the technical support that RB wishes to offer, but it's not considered cheating.
Shane what you fail to understand is that things are changing.
Also if you put sales so low for items then crafters wont make those items because they wont gain any money for their time.
Your low QL items come into play when you have people that are lower skilled, something thats just been put into the game with skill decay being much more harsh, now people are no longer going to be masters of everything.
This game will have both crafters and warriors once its fixed. If anything its more geared to the crafters then warriors. Your idea would really hurt crafters not help. Sure a few would pick up the trade because it would make it easier to make lower QL items, however, most wouldnt, and many hardcore crafters would suffer for it.
If they made high end crafted items worth a lot more not just in ses (meaning the vendors didnt sell them or sold them really high, higher then now) and give these items big bonuses to things then ya I can understand your point. But lowering the time to make lower QL items dosnt make sense in a few ways.
1)Why would it be must faster to make a low QL Mouldframe vs a high QL Mouldframe? It wouldnt really.
2)Your prices would kill the high QL item market because what would be the use to have a high QL item?
3) It still wouldnt fix the problem that either you would have people not willing to make the lower items because its not worth the time, or the higher QL items wouldnt be worth it. You cant really have both.
-MrDDT
Players would want and need to have the higher Ql items once they are higher skilled as it would help the Ql of the action they are trying to complete..... (those bonuses for Higher Ql items)
For example crafters needing a higher Ql hammer to make higher ql items or a fighter needing a higher Ql weapon to even hit a higher skilled fighter for any real damaging damage...
Your low QL items come into play when you have people that are lower skilled, something thats just been put into the game with skill decay being much more harsh, now people are no longer going to be masters of everything.
Are you trying to say that high skilled players are gonna be low skilled since the skill decay? I don't think that is gonna be the case at all.
And higher skilled players can find some used for low ql items as well like pell training to maintain skill ...why waste a good weapon just for training?
So how you would require high end crafters to use high end items? That sounds like a punishment to those crafters.
You can already make lower QL items, they are already in the game. What you are asking is to allow these lower QL items to be crafted faster right? Well if they are crafted faster, then the high QL items are slower (by default do you understand that? Im not saying slower then it is now just saying slower). So how do you balance out the fact that making an item that is faster to make but lower QL vs an item that is slower to make but higher QL? If you have the low QL wear out really fast, then why would people train with that item?
Its the same problem all over again. Why would they do that? Its fine like it is, lower QL items sell for less already. Most people dont make lower QL items because its NOT WORTH IT!!! Most people dont WANT lower QL items because its not WORTH IT. Do you understand this? I dont know how tomake this more clear to you. NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY LOWER QL ITEMS BECAUSE ITS NOT WORTH IT!.
If you make it worth it to buy lower QL items NO ONE IS GOING TO USE HIGHER QL ITEMS. If you force people to use higher QL items you are only punishing the people that uses items.
I understand all the things you say , but listen to me you cant balance it anymore then it already is, what you are asking for is to UNBALANCE IT. You want it to be in favor of lower QL items which are cheaper. But its already balanced. You know why people dont make low QL items? Because of 2 reasons
1) They are masters of everything already.
2) Its not what people want.
-MrDDT
Players would want and need to have the higher Ql items once they are higher skilled as it would help the Ql of the action they are trying to complete..... (those bonuses for Higher Ql items)
For example crafters needing a higher Ql hammer to make higher ql items or a fighter needing a higher Ql weapon to even hit a higher skilled fighter for any real damaging damage...
Your low QL items come into play when you have people that are lower skilled, something thats just been put into the game with skill decay being much more harsh, now people are no longer going to be masters of everything.
Are you trying to say that high skilled players are gonna be low skilled since the skill decay? I don't think that is gonna be the case at all.
And higher skilled players can find some used for low ql items as well like pell training to maintain skill ...why waste a good weapon just for training?
So how you would require high end crafters to use high end items? That sounds like a punishment to those crafters.
They would naturally want to use higher Ql items so they don't have to replace them so often working on the longer higher ql projects...
Plus (like we had said) higher Ql items would be better and result in having a better end product.
You can already make lower QL items, they are already in the game. What you are asking is to allow these lower QL items to be crafted faster right? Well if they are crafted faster, then the high QL items are slower (by default do you understand that? Im not saying slower then it is now just saying slower). So how do you balance out the fact that making an item that is faster to make but lower QL vs an item that is slower to make but higher QL? If you have the low QL wear out really fast, then why would people train with that item?
No no no... You can make high Ql items and low Ql items by using low Ql stuff to make it or high ql stuff... But reguardless it takes the same ammount of time so that is why noone makes them...
And I said a bunch of times now that the high Ql items times NOW, should stay the same... only scale back the times FROM THAT for the lower QL items...
Example would be time to make a 99 Ql item now, say it takes(just example) 30 mins, now to make a Ql 50 (for my suggestion) would take about 15 mins... So the time for high Ql items would stay the same try to understand that...
As far as making them being worth it , it would... for both.
You would use the low ql for training CAUSE THEY ARE CHEAPER....Much cheaper..
The high Ql ones are worth it because they are better more effective items... And they actually last a long time as a Higher Ql one should for the cost...
Its the same problem all over again. Why would they do that? Its fine like it is, lower QL items sell for less already. Most people dont make lower QL items because its NOT WORTH IT!!! Most people dont WANT lower QL items because its not WORTH IT. Do you understand this? I dont know how tomake this more clear to you. NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY LOWER QL ITEMS BECAUSE ITS NOT WORTH IT!.
Would be with my suggestion.... And WTF is the point, in this economy, of having low Ql items as they are atm??? They should have a part in there somewhere in a real economy, as they do in my suggestion...
If you make it worth it to buy lower QL items NO ONE IS GOING TO USE HIGHER QL ITEMS. If you force people to use higher QL items you are only punishing the people that uses items.
/Sigh.... Again because high Ql items are better last longer and get better results.....
I understand all the things you say , but listen to me you cant balance it anymore then it already is, what you are asking for is to UNBALANCE IT. You want it to be in favor of lower QL items which are cheaper. But its already balanced. You know why people dont make low QL items? Because of 2 reasons
1) They are masters of everything already.
2) Its not what people want.
They would be wanted for training if it was set up the way I suggested and masters of their trade would make them just for players to train with... As per my suggestion.
Beyond training, players would need good high Ql gear to be effective at making high Ql gear and to be good at PVP.
Shane