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Dont waste your time.......
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Well I think it's entirely a matter of opinion who the worst is, but I think it's fair to judge those involved with the development of the project more harshly than those who are not. There are all sorts of hooligans on the internet and only some of them are on the dev team.
I also think it's important to point out that the devs aren't really working for free - they just aren't being compensated monetarily. Besides obvious points like reputation in the community and bits for your resume, you can read some of the arguments for joining here: http://www.planeshift.it/recruitment.html
As far as Karyuu goes, she left because of pricks in the community, but she was also deeply unsatisfied with the state of the GM team. I know what she said publically about her departure but I suspect the truth is somewhat more complex. For the record, I was not one of those pricks nor would I choose to associate myself with them. I suspect they were the straw that broke the camel's back.
No, not really. You would have to take an extremely liberal interpretation of "personal attack" to say I'm saying that.
Hello to you!
I'm sure that I'm one of the posters you're refering to. If my insults are veiled, it's because it would be crass to say them more plainly.
I'm afraid I was drawn into a discussion much longer than I intended and it's expected in these conversations for people to provide as much "proof" as possible. However it was only my intention to give my opinion and at most point a few fingers. The points I've made are of a very subjective nature and I don't expect people to do anything other than decide for themselves.
I would hope though that individuals such as yourself would hear what I'm saying and search for the truth in it.
Let's just get back to the original subject of this thread.
"Don't waste your time....."
You should not waste your time playing PlaneShift because in some people's opinion (which is not shared by everyone) the mods of the forum are powerhungry tyrants.
Agree or dissagree that you should not waste your time. A simple answer is fine.
I disagree.
I changed my mind. PlaneShift is not worth the time.
Wow, this would have been nice from the start instead of writing an essay no one read.
_________________
USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST
You should not waste your time playing PlaneShift and posting on PlaneShift-related forums if you don't even like the game in the first place. Seriously, it doesn't take four years to find some other game to play. Feedback like the original post on this thread is appreciated, but there are a few who are flat-out overly obsessed about not liking the game.
UTM: That is like five or six sentences, I'm not reading it if it's longer than four :P
I define a personal attack as insulting or degrading an individual regardless of the manner in which it is done.
Ok. I don't see how that changes anything.I disagree as well. You should play the game despite the fact that the mods and officials are powerhungry tyrants.:)
Greetings, I am assuming that I am one of the "powerhungry tyrants" so I thought I should come and say hello.
One thing I would like to see is specific info. Who is a tyrant? Who is a hooligan? This blanket statement that the game is not worth trying at all does not work for me.
The original poster asserts that they have played the game extensively. How can you have done so if the game has no merit or value?
I agree with the idea that the posters who have defamed PS in a manner I think is uneven and not remotely objective have taken advantage of this forum to make slanderous claims about what I feel is a wholly benevolent endeavor.
My principle question remains, who hurt your feelings? How did anyone involved in PlaneShift upset this cross section of negative posters so much that they would pursue tearing PlaneShift down so single-mindedly here and on many forums?
I have read the whole thread.
Who is the offending mod, dev, or gm?
I welcome people who play planeshift to send me, Xillix, a private message regarding any abuse they feel has been perpetuated against them on our forums and assure all parties that it will be dealt with quickly.
The conversation has taken place across multiple threads so I'm sorry but you have a lot more reading ahead of you if you want to be caught up with everyone else who has posted here.
Wait, I think I may have confused myself. Are you interested in knowing about every official who has ever been a "power hungry tyrant", or are you just after the name of the one who TriMoon encountered?
There's been much posted in this thread so you'll excuse me if I'm uncertain of what Q was responding to.
I would vastly prefer that I was informed of every instance of alleged abuse than random indefensible blanket statements from anonymous posters.
I have read every word of every thread on this forum, in some cases many times.
For me, it's such a general problem that's been around for so long that I no longer find any point in calling out specific individuals. I'm happy playing the game and keeping my head low and that's the advice I give to others. I think it's noble for people to go through the official channels if they have a grievance with the GMs, and I use to do it myself, but it's so rare for anything to come from it that I no longer see the point. It only results in bringing yourself unwanted attention. I've accepted the state of the GM team as the way things are and now it's simply a matter of doing what's practical. Just like I'm not going to waste my time and energy trying to turn around the IRC channel, I'm too selfish to try to improve the attitudes of the GMs and devs.
You've replied to pretty much all of my posts but you haven't done a great job of reading them. You're right, I haven't called out specific individuals. And I've given you the reason why not. I've also explained to you several times that I'm merely sharing my experiences and I don't expect people to take anything without a grain of salt or to condemn the GMs and devs based merely on my account. Sheesh!The issue I am having now is that I would like to address the supposed problem. No one will be disciplined, I will just speak with the involved parties and see if we can make some changes to how they comport themselves.
If policy changes are needed to address gm dev moderator interaction I can also discuss those. The idea that any problem cannot be rectified is alien to me.
I am not asking you to do any of this all alone. If other people are having issues send them to me and I will investigate the situation that player perceives as abusive and seek a redress of any wrongs.
QueenofFools, Talad has made the claim that the devs have no contact with the players and that those players who complain about things are merely a few petty individuals who are trying to sabotage the game for spite. If you are sincere, I am glad. However I hope you can understand why someone might be skeptical of change given the usual reaction criticisms are met with by not only Talad and the devs/GMs but by "regulars" such as Tuxide and UtMoon.
I think you're sincere, but I'm not sure how you'll be able to do it. Changing the culture of a team is very difficult, especially when you're a relative newcomer. Also working against you is the fact that you're only a member of the settings team, so a lot of people will be saying you don't know what you're talking about or that you're overstepping your bounds just based on your title.
If I were in your shoes, I'd probably be going to other devs both past and present and asking for their ideas and opinions. Getting a hold of ex devs is doable and important, and I also think it's good to let such individuals know that they are still relevant to the project. It would also give you some insight into the history of Planeshift and the state of things in years past. A part of knowing where you are is knowing where you've been. I've also noticed a trend of problems being downplayed during the period they're relevant, only to then be admitted to once they have passed.
Apart from that, I'd just keep my eyes and ears open. If you've read all my posts then you already know where I stand. A blind eye has been turned to a lot of things and it's impossible to go back in time and recount everything.
Oh dear, you have some misconceptions in this last post . . .
Relative newcomer? No no, I would hope you have seen I have had a systemic affect on many aspects of the game.
ONLY a member of the settings team is another big misconception. Settings has direct influence in:
The features developed
Gm team operation
Defining needs from the Art team
This is in addition to the written content of the game, fixing bugs oriented around this, settings driven gm events, and many other facets of production.
In any case I have been up to my neck in PS solidly and full time for free for well over a year now. I know the project and its direction and history quite well.
The culture of the game has already undergone many significant changes. I am present to alter such things more often than any dev or player so my short time involved is more than adequately compensated for.
You seem to have a lot of opinions and have probably played a while. You should consider joining the team so that you can have a direct impact on fixing the problems you identify.
In terms of ex- devs I would like to cite the example of karyuu who bent over backwards to make sure that players had their say. She was so eventually plowed over with comments and vitriolic posts that she resigned from the forums. Perhaps a mistake of ours is being too close to the players. By doing so there are many tangible benefits but one negative side is that if a dev and a player get into a conflict it looks as if the game devs are being pushy, more generally, it appears as though we bully the community somehow.
Most games do not have devs that interact at all with their communities, this is left to mods etc.
Talad was not being false when stating devs do not have time to interact with players. Most of them do not at all. A few of us have made it a priority to interact with the players and find out what they are thinking. Talad does not oversee the personal interactions of every member of the dev community because he is frankly too busy developing content and managing assets. (which most would prefer him doing)
Incidentally I also run the PR dept so this is all in my sphere of influence.
Let's not keep bumping this thread with an ugly topic shall we? Make a new one if you want to carry this conversation on. The original poster is much more angry than you seem. If we are to move ahead I don't think it helps anyone PS or MMORPG.Com or even the conversation itself to have this thread stay atop the conversation about PlaneShift.
I already made my thread. And you're right, I'm more resigned than angry. This isn't about saving my feelings though.
I think the problem with karyuu was that she wanted to be understanding and she wanted to treat people like human beings, but she didn't know how to do it while distancing herself from the situations she was handling. Because she put so much of herself into what she was doing, she couldn't help but take it very personally when people lashed out. To do what she was doing successfully, you have to know not to take anything that happens personally. You are there to be an ambassador of the game, and that might mean being a good actor and giving a polite response to something you are personally offended by.
As well intentioned as karyuu was, it's not something that everyone can do. That's not to say it isn't worth doing though. If I were to give an example of the right way to react in such situations, I'd probably refer to the posts you've made in this thread. You've stayed on message, you haven't gotten personal over anything nor have you thrown around insults and baiting accusations (like some have), and you're projecting the ideal persona for the given situation. What I think most people don't understand, including other members of the dev team, is that this is something you have to work at over time and it involves thinking of the role as the role and not as a simple extension of yourself. That's the trap karyuu may have fallen into.
Thank you for your kind remarks howtoland, I will be doing some soul searching Immediately.
Since you seem to understand sarcasm well enough (witty rejoinder there at the end), maybe I can help you with modesty, arrogance, and confidence.
modesty:
Arrogance:
offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.
Confidence:
Now, since all that I said was true, there was no boastfulness. Since I posed my post as hoping pstruth had noticed the changes, there is no vanity. So I am not in danger of immodesty. That pretty much leaves me comfortably in the realm of confidence.
This post here in its presumption that you need to be taught a lesson about language is arrogant, where do you think the lesson you intended to teach me places you?
So please forgive him his bit of sarcasm
There's a line between arrogance and confidence that you don't seem be aware of. Almost anybody who doesn't know you or your game who stumbles in to this post and reads your belittling posts can see this.
Thank you for proving both my point and that of the original poster's by replying in such a manner. You've saved me from having to reply to anything else you post.