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How do you like your PVP?
infrared1
Member UncommonPosts: 440
I've played a lot of games in the past, and I enjoy occasional PvP. I'm not real hip on it. I enjoy the RP and PvE side of games. Some recent discussions here on MMORPG.com have got me thinking. What type of PvP do most players enjoy, and comment on why?
If I am missing any please elaborate cuz I don't know them all. Educate me pls.
Comments
100% consensual or not at all.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
100% FFA but the game must have a PvP context, must at least have lawful areas, and be free from from the large character 'level' and item power discrepancies in typical PvE MMOs. Consent comes with purchasing the title.
FFA always, but happens rarely. The only place I know that is anything close to being FFA is Ultima Online and on the Siege Perilious server. I thought of going on this server after the years I had spend in UO until I found out about the tedious gaining system that is in place there. Sadly I don't have the time to dedicate to gaming as I once did, so the many months to gain high levels are a no, no to me on Seige. It is still the most pure form of pvp that any MMO offers however if you have the time.
Total FFA PvP just doesnt work from what i can see. Most if not all of the games built for FFA PVP have failed.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
Agreed. It has to be purpose built from the ground up. No add on side dishes. Changing the game's philosophy mid life (a la SWG NGE) is just plain dirty.
You are not being objective. If you are referring to games such as UO, Shadowbane, AC2 and FFA servers for games like DAoC, and AC1 then there is more to it than the issue of PvP:
- UO was buggy the first couple years and lacked a context for the PvP.
- Shadowbane and AC2 were technical disasters and suffered from high level vs low level ganking.
- FFA servers for DAoC and AC1 were not purpose built. They were alternate rulesets overlayed onto games that were designed for something different.
So it is not that FFA PvP doesnt work, it is that nobody has matched a good FFA PvP concept with a technically polished game.
Player looting , for me, is not that big a deal.
The main thing is winning. I dont care that I take something of the other players...he/she ought to know, that if I win....he better improve. If I take something from his corpse..he only gets weaker ..no challenge in a rematch
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
MMOs did not evolve from carebearism. Consensual PvP doesn't belong in MMORPGs.
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I think 80% of MMO players want consensual no looting pvp. Why? They only want to play the rpg in coop mode with friends. PvP for them is just something that is an obstacle to fun. Griefing, time loss, pvp penalty, no emersion etc are a few reasons.
I personally would love FFA+player looting if done right with reasons for pvping and only then. Player looting is fine if the economy is player controlled and cheap items are not that bad. FFA is fine if the game allows for a complex guilding system and some sort of bounty system to fight true griefers/PKers (fun for all).
Reasons for pvp: Make pvp more than just fighting to see who wins. Give reasons like:
- control of territory
- defending or attacking convoys
- fighting for a specific faction
- XP, character progression
I am still waiting for an MMO with quests like:
- Go and kill 5 warriors of appropriate level of enemy faction x.
- Attack enemy convoy and steal the gold.
- Kill 10 hostiles while defending our production facilities.
- Assassinate enemy top ranked player for lots of $$$ and fame.
Someone please finally make a player skill based MMO revolving around PvP.
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Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
You seem to be talking as if you have never lost a PvP battle. How do you feel when you get ganked and loose you favorite sword or whatever?
ffa with player looting ofcoarse!
Could you elaborate a bit on player looting for me. If I kill a player do I loot everything from his inventory, or do i just get to pick one item? Should certain items be non-lootable?
Well my ideal pvp sysytem would have to be like WOW's with that type of interface and mechanics.
But with full player looting, maybe perma death.
That would be a very intense game you would actually have to think and sneak around constently looking over your shoulder. oh and it would ahve to have alot of blood and violance =D
Player looting games ends up little to no pvp usually. I dont care about other peoples loot I just want to pvp every min im loged in.
You seem to be talking as if you have never lost a PvP battle. How do you feel when you get ganked and loose you favorite sword or whatever?
In UO it was no big deal. I could buy whatever gear I needed off another player's vendor for a few hundred gold or I could make my own with my smith in about 15 minutes. I usually had several sets made in advance anyhow.A good full PvP MMO is not like WoW where you have to spend months raiding to get 'uber' gear. Then only to lose it 5 minutes later. That would be stupid.
I like FFA pvp. But when you lose a (even just a) day or more worth of work from one death: some thing is wrong.
Death penalties should be minor or else the fun factor goes out the window and grieving takes over. Would you think you would enjoy playing Halo 3 (yes I know it's FPS) if you had to kill bots for hours until your fire power would be strong as it was before you died? No, you're straight in again against other players again to enjoy the game.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
Trust me, Ive lost more than My fair share.
but I always came back. I didnt run away crying, I stood my ground and got rolled so many times, I lost count. If people lose thier armor, weapons, gold , whatever ..would they be so bold?. If people were to lose with a cost, perhaps they would not engage the enemy as much. In fact, because of this, you may actually find less fights as people only enter fights they think they can win, or cut and run a lot sooner. That, and a lot more people playing stealth/invisibility/cherry picking classes that offer first strike potential and escapability (which are already prevalent).
To me, PvP is putting the best you've got against the best Ive got. I dont like losing items, but I dont feel I need a reward other than my victory. Just my thoughts on it
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Hence my only problem with FFA PVP. Sadly this isn't circa 2000 when high levels would hunt down scum lowbee campers and teach them a lesson. Sadly as long as such cheap tactics are allowed FFA PVP will never prosper.
It's a shame too because no NPC can match the tactics that are required to face a thinking human being.
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
Could you elaborate a bit on player looting for me. If I kill a player do I loot everything from his inventory, or do i just get to pick one item? Should certain items be non-lootable?
It depends. If most items which you can use on your character can be produced with player crafting easily than I'd say you should be allowed to loot everything. I wouldn't mind some slots being locked though for those super expensive items. A player would be allowed to lock any 3 of his 10 slots and he would respawn with those items. Getting a random item from the player might work as well.I am not trying to punish the victim if you are thinking that. With player looting I want a more intense and 'realistic' PvP experience. Players should commit to fights and pay more attention to their surroundings and ingame 'radars'. Overall the player looting aspect should be adjusted to the MMO world and availability of items. Look at Eve online for example: Eveyrthing is player made. Everyone is fully lootable because everything can be replaced in an acceptable time frame. It works quite well and the economy will never run out of customers.
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Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
PvP did not evolve from RPG's.
PvP doesn't belong in RPG games.
I like my PvP in games designed with balance and player equality in mind. With that as a priority. Not with PvP designed as an extra tack on to amuse.
I like it hardcore. Once you dead it's game over. And I like that your stuff can be looted once you are dead. I like games where staying alive for 10 minutes is an absolute feat of gameplay.
I prefer scripted missions, objective based games. At the bare minimum capture the flag or hamburger hill type games, but in this day and age that is highly primitive in the utmost. Scripted storyboard campaigns are par for the course. Just an open map with free for all pvp or team vs team, faction vs faction is just about as weak a game device and frankly primitive as PvP gets. People rant and rave about PvP in Eve for example, but it is uber weak. There is no reason for fighting, players have to make up reasons. Pick fights with each other out of boredom. Players don't start off even, and when you die it isn't game over. This is first gen PvP.
In an MMO. A system can never be too complex. But in a player vs player game, it can. Chess is perhaps more rewarding than draughts, (although this depends onthe players) but the Civilisation the board game sucks the big one. (And yet Civilisation the one player computer game rocks the big one111). An over complex system of rules too easily overbalances the game between the complete noob and the old veteran. The two sets of people cannot enjoyably compete with each other. There is not enough balance.
I don't like WoW for many of the same reasons although they have at least picked up on making the gameplay meaningfull. They have added 2nd gen pvp game design, like capture the flag, hamburger hills, domination games and all the other new modes brought to us by Unreal Tournament. Instanced arenas' and open field pvp and even third gen PvP with open domination that gives faction rewards to other allied players pve'ing in the same region.
For PvP, I'm really looking for Chess, Netris, Quake Wars, Battlefield 2, Dawn of War, Hidden And Dangerous 2; Games that are either primarily designed for PvP or for which it has been an integral feature since the dawn of the genre. That have evolved through many generations to better understand what makes for a good player vs player game.
MMO's just don't do it well, even Planetside which was an exclusively PvP MMORPG, still sacrificed good gameplay to pander to the RPG crowd. Sorry but RPG and PvP don't mix well. The concept of fairplay and even competitiion has to be sacrificed in an rpg enviroment. "Life isn't fair". Life might not be, but a good competative game strives to be fair above all things. To deal an even hand at all times.
So PvP in an Rpg is alwayds going to be a compromise. Unlimited character development vs, everyone competing with the same development rating. I don't need to make this compromise. I own too many other titles. If I want to PvP I simply launch a dedicated PvP game.
Look at that poll. FFA with player looting is winning. Not many MMORPG's out there are like that.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Those MMO's that enacted this have all long since gone out of business.
Everybody says they love it, and they love the concept of it, but after their lvl 99 Prince of Darkness gets ganked in a lag spike, they all can't be bothered to start all over at the begining again.............. and they move on.
Gameplay has evolved. This is a mode of gameplay that Darwinian evolution has left behind. A poll is one thing, ask people to put their money where there mouths are and you will get a very different result. those games are all out here, they were the things in their day. But someone came along and offered players the chance not to lose their kit or their level when they died. And everyone fgopund that althouh it sounds wussier, they actually prefered it.
darkfall is are only hope for good ffa player looting ffa and player looting jsut doesnt work with gear based /level/class based games hince 1 reason shadowbane failed
lets just hope the darkfall devs are telling the truth we will find out soon
Thank you guys for all your input. I want to know what makes good PvP? Maybe give some PvP experience you had in a game that you thought was awesome fun.
Pretty much what I want; meaningful full loot PvP also,not just FFA chaos without depth. Hence I follow Darkfall.