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Will WAR be another grindfest?
Phos
Member Posts: 455
See this video. Fast forward to 2min 09sec. "he needs to kill 20 annoying squigs." There is video of some guy playing WAR at some kind of convention, and he's on a quest to kill 20 bugs or something.
Grindfest? Looks like it.
- Phos
AAH! A troll fire! Quick, pour some Kool-Aid on it!!!
Comments
Most likely, yes. Though, it will have certain features to break up the total grinding feel.
doubtful, its not korean
Sorry, nationality doesn't matter. An American created MMOG (for example) can still be a grindfest, actually, there are some of those out right now.
No, Asian mmos are awful grind fests.
But on a better note, that vids is liek one of the oldest there , are i would not link it but prehaps to show where war was and where is is now. The vid was of the public quest system , wher enot just 1 person is kill ign 20 squigs but , well as many peop[le as there are arounf that area are. That being said about 2-4 months ago this one was re-done.
Think of it like a boss that had adds and there are a certian number of them that come out before you can fight him.
That being said WAr is having kill x number of x mob quests. The differnence is that you do not need to go and pick up the quest to do it.
Example)
You kill 20 boards on the way to the next town. When you get there, there is an npc that says, I really hate boars." Then he says, " Oh i see that you have killed 20 boars, great job heres your reward."
Had you not killed any boars yes you woulds have to go grind them, however turning this quest is helps your sides victory points (as of now) So it helps the zone control battle as well.
Still is it goign to be a grind , yes, to some rate. But you know being able to exp , get loot, and get money from doing nothing but pvping, seems a pretty cool way to grind.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I like the fact that you can kill the critters before you get the quest. That way you can explore some and not worry about having to go get quest A or quest B first.
I said in another thread but I'll repeat it here. I don't think it's going to be as big a grind as most other games out there. The current level cap is 40 if I recall correctly, so hopefully Mythic are focussing on making it possible for people to reach that cap without having to resort to grinding so they can focus on PvP.
Hopefully the actual grinding will be kept to a minimum, plsu remember you will probably be able to get XP through PvP as well by turning in kills to particular NPCs. That's the hope anyway.
______________________________
WAR is coming. Look busy.
Although, you also get rewards for doing Quests that involve killing other players. And that is the big draw for me.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
you need to be worried about the rvr and not the pve stuff
Xp grinding from pvp is one of the greatest aspects Mythic used in Daoc. Gearing up through it now is only better.
Sorry this is a bit off topic, like the new sig Imp
Anyhow, yeah I'm sure grinding could be a viable option...maybe
....
Hopefully not.
Open a more grind-friendly server or something...
Hmm.
I think the gents and ladies over at mythic have a pretty firm hold on what we want in a game, and will balance the innumerable variables to give us the best experience possible.
Sig by WhiskeyJack1
Thank ya. It's a bit basic, but I like it that way. Clean and simple.
I hope and pray that it is not based around annoying grind missions. Maybe they should push the release date back another Qtr. and make sure it's not....
I have played that exsact quest at D3 gameshow. Its the begining off a public quest and the giant that you help is bugged by a pack of squigs. And that quest does not give the impression of a grind , that gives the feeling of a thight packed war
but WAR can ofcause still be a grindfest , though i doubt it.
But what i experience with War at D3 , was that i looks like it has some really cool way to deal with the repetive killing of the same monster, namely "the Tome of knowledge". you could call it intelligent grind , as the tomekeeps track of how many monsters of 1 type you kill , and unlocks info while you advance. And then blend in some nice special quests to get further. And thats done automatecly in the tome.
that looks like a really cool feature
Guys, I don't think you get the concept of this game. It's not gonna be anything new, they will have features that give you a choice of how you wanna grind if you wanna quest to help out your realm which is pretty much in a PvE environment then you have that choice.
If you wanna go PvP/RvR a real player in a battle ground to level you can do that also. This game will encompass many options that other games do not host such as leveling all the way up from t1-t4 doing nothing but PvP/RvR.
In doing this however you may miss out on a lot of the lore quests and such that explain a lot of things about Warhammer and the different factions at war. I am suspecting most will do a combo of 50/50 in the game in order to level as PvPing all day would get old fast as well.
Will there be new and innovative things in this game "yes" will they be so new that it will knock everyon's socks off "probably not" again, there will be PvE orientated quests for the realms movement in this game and lots of them.
On a note, I wish it was a game that started you out a max level automatically where you could jump into the fray but then that game would not make the company hosting it a lot of bread either. There is no way around a grind in a MMO, "hell, real life is a grind also".
Well I plan to level mainly via PvP so to me it'll be about as much grind as Call of Duty 4. Well, I'm sure it'll be a little slower than that as CoD4 is pretty quick leveling. My point though is that PvP should be pretty fun in this game, so it probably won't even feel like a grind. And on the PvE side, every MMORPG these days has the Kill X amount of Y quests. I don't think we are moving beyond that anytime soon. Atleast, WAR gives you credit for mobs you killed prior to picking up the quest. Thats probably about as much innovation we are going to see to the "Kill X amount of Y" quests for awhile.
Anything you do in abundance can become boring and lame and be a grind. The only way around it is for the Dev to create so much content you can't get through it all or you stop playing 12 hours a day. Plain and simple.
This stems from me being a hardcore player and have done the marathon sessions or 24+ hours. Then I played WoW the same way and got sick of it. Now I play Wow and a couple others but I don't sit at my pc 24/7 in the same game and I find I am enjoying myself again in most of these games.
Playing Eve/SWG/WoW/GW
To Tonev try GW the lving is fast to 20 can hit it in three days if your hard and a week if casual.
Point of my post don't play so much and you wont feel the grind as bad enjoy the quests but don't rush through just for the xp read them and follow the story. Don't get me wrong I got a lot of grips with some of the games I play but I still know they can be ok If I don't beat my head off them all day.
I will say though I am certainly up for pvp xp gains!!!
"The most important thing is to have the design support the players in setting their own goals in both cooperative and competitive interaction with one another." - Ironore -
Phos...
Did you play DAoC on Lancelot?
Who you calling kids? (just kidding, it's flattering to be called a 'kid' at my age!) And who is "GOD DAMN MUCH" and why do you think I play "to" him? LOL!!! (Grammar!)
You play Eve, SWG, WoW, and GW... ? That's a lot of MMOs to play at once! I've been on an MMO break for a few months. I'm working up a good appetite for Darkfall when it comes out! (It's the only one in development that looks promising to me right now.)
But seriously, we play too much? I don't agree that the solution to a grindfest is to just play less. It looks like a grindfest to me, no matter how much I play. I don't want to go out and kill 20 womprats to gain a level. That's not fun no matter how much or how little I play.
Call me crazy, but when I buy a game, I want to have fun in it! If there's a part of the game that isn't fun, like if I have to grind up to the top level before the game is fun... then something's wrong. I understand a boring tutorial or something to familiarize you with game controls or something like that. But GRINDING through 30 LEVELS of play before it's even any fun??? No thanks. I had that in WoW, COH, VG, and lots of other MMO clones (which is what is starting to look a little bit like to me.)
- Phos
Depends on your defniition of Grindfest. All MMORPgs have some aspect of grinding to them. However, I doubt Mythic will make this game as grindy as WoW. It will likely be about as much as DAOC has.
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Basically what I've gotten out of this thread so far is that most people have a horrible attitude. This attitude seems to be "I'm going to sit here, and I fully expect you to entertain me while I bitch about it..."
Honostly people learn to enjoy life. EVERYTHING can be a grind if it's something you don't want to do (ie. Work, school, dating, marriage, eating, sleaping...). What people are refering to as a "grind" has an ultimate purpose and if you took the time to actually immerse yourself in the game and enjoy the fun in it then you would realize it isn't a grind at all. I know this is difficult for some of you, especially the ones who don't even know what they want. THOUGHT: Instead of complaining about what you don't like such as grinding, tell us how you could make it better. Please, shower us with your innovative knowledge with how you are going to single handedly revamp all future MMO's. Once you do this, and actually take it to a developer who can impliment these changes AND it's succesfull...well then you might just hear people complaining about how your new system "is a total grindfest...god I hate it"
People play games cause they're fun, wether they seem repetative or not.
Let's break it down with what we know (at least what I know, feel free to add more)
What does WAR offer in terms of content:
1. Standard MMO quests (kill X of Y, gather Z, deliver to T etc.)
2. Public Quests (solo friendly group quests, area wide, repeatable)
3. Tome of Knowledge - Additional quests + exploration / achievement system
4. Dungeons - At least 1 per race
5. PvE raids - No clue how many or what variety
6. XP / money / loot from PvP kills
7. Open world RvR objectives
8. Instanced scenarior PvP (battlegrounds)
9. City Sieges (sounds like they are going to have multiple phases)
10. Level 1-40 zones for each race means that there will be 6 completely different advancement paths (unlike WoW where level 20ish-70 is all the same zones no matter the race pretty much)
So, as long as you try a little bit of everything, and don't just do the same thing over and over and over... No, I don't think WAR will be another grindfest.
End game? Focus of end game is PvP, namely the RvR campaign and city siege / capture. Will this getting boring and repetitive after a while? Who knows.
As long as I don't have to do Molten-Chore-like grinds to get nice/competitive equipment, I'm in.
Now now, don't be rude. I'm not sure how you "got that" from this thread, but you're totally wrong. I don't want to be told how to "have fun." I don't want to be forced to walk a specific path at all. I want a total sandbox. But games like this penalize players who just want to have fun.
It's a "grindfest" because we HAVE to have certain things (like levels, gear, etc) to be competetive. Therefore, we have to kill 20 womprats to complete this quest, which leads us to the next quest to kill 20 slugs (or whatever). Otherwise we fall behind and we're cannon fodder for the hardcore players who are quest-monkeys and human bots. If the game only starts to be fun after you've grinded through certain quests to get gear and levels, then it sucks. It's just a big rat race.
Deprogram yourself man! I know it's been a long time since a good MMO without quest grinding has existed, but it IS possible, and it WAS awesome! We just need to convince developers to go back to those old ways and stop all this quest/gear/endgame madness!
- Phos
Phos, the quest in question (the one you quoted in original post) is a public quest. It is not designed to be done solo 9although this beign the first stage of that pq, it can be) So, say you have 5 people in that area, and they all decide to do that pq, you are looking at an average of 4 mobs to kill per person, how is that a grind?
Imagine war at launch day
Tons of newbies all over the starting zones, killing every mob in sight (some going to rvr because there are no mobs to kill) How long will it take to kill those 20 squigs? When you have people killing them as soon as they spawn basically.
PQ's might become a gridn when the zones are empty as everyone has out leveled the startign zones, and you are the only one working on a particular pq, but then again, you won't be able to solo the last stage anyway so blah. Plus, mythic has stated they can adjust PQ's requirements, so the numbers needed to kill/whatever will likely go down as the zones become empty.
Now, if you can find a quest in war that asks you to collect 10 bear paws but bears only have a 10% chance to drop a paw, and bears are mixed in with wolfs (that have an insane agro range) so you end up killing twice as many wolfs as you do bears.... then yes, war will be a grindfest that will make lineage 2 proud
But untill then, it's not a grindfest at all =p Besides, how can it be a grindfest when you can just go and rvr untill max lvl? =p Never do a single pve quest!
PS: This game will not be a sandbox game, nor was it ever supposed to be one. Why in the world you'd even look at it if you want a sandbox game I have no idea.
Wouldn't it be cool if all quests were player-driven quests or market-driven quests? Not some arbitrary quest?
Like if a player needs some kind of metal to make a new sword, but the metal is in a difficult area and he's not in a guild or doesn't want to go get it... he can make his own quest and ask someone for help, and the game assigns a certain amount of XP for the quest?
Or maybe if the public market sells bread, but is out of bread because of supply/demand, but a war campaign is on and they need lots more bread... then there could be a quest to steal bread from the enemy or strong-arm some farmers into changing their crop to wheat, or something like that?
At least if we're going to grind through quests, let's make them interactive and have some sort of actual bearing on our world. Then, by our actions, we're also chosing sides in the world.
Does that make sense? I guess I'm just a dreamer. But this seems possible to me. Then again, I'm not a game developer so what do I know?
- Phos