Okay. First let me say I love PVP in the right amounts and doses. If I can find a good fair game where each side has a chance nothing is more fun that pounding away at other players hoping to win the day with my team or squad. That said...Why would a carebear play this game? I am willing to admit that PVP players make up an incredibly small number of the population of successful MMO's today. If this game does not give the PVE centric players something MASSIVE and VERY soon they will have absolutely no reason to pay 50 bucks plus I'm assuming another 15 bucks a month to bother with this game. What this means is that it will amount to the same kind of population that DAoC has which is dismal at best. Same people same servers same ole crap ad nauseum. So again, why would a carebear...the largest population of players and the player base that determines a game's success, why would they play this? Honestly curious...
DAOC population loss has nothing to do with "carebears." The population loss in DAOC had to deal with pushing away the casual player by changes to the RA system, NF, and ToA. On top of that, Mythic did nothing to keep growing the game and over time people play less and quit any game.
WAR is not a PvP game, but an RvR game. That is a big difference I do not see people picking up on. Open PvP anywhere at anytime is something that will drive "carebears" away. On the other hand, since most of the game will have safe areas to level in then there will be no ganking. Without the ganking then there is no reason for them to be driven away by the fact that you can kill other players. That is done in a specific area.
I think the real question you have in mind is that if there is little (or just sucky) PvE and the only draw is killing other players, then why would they play/stick with the game? Either they are hoping that the only players they get will be attracted to the RvR element and not care about PvE, or they will have to put in some interesting PvE options.
Okay. First let me say I love PVP in the right amounts and doses. If I can find a good fair game where each side has a chance nothing is more fun that pounding away at other players hoping to win the day with my team or squad. That said...Why would a carebear play this game? I am willing to admit that PVP players make up an incredibly small number of the population of successful MMO's today. If this game does not give the PVE centric players something MASSIVE and VERY soon they will have absolutely no reason to pay 50 bucks plus I'm assuming another 15 bucks a month to bother with this game.
LOL, god, i love threads like these.. First off, asking why a "carebear" would play WAR is like asking why a pvper would play EQ2, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, etc...
WAR is NOT gonna be like your typical mindless, senseless, fps killing game. So please get that out of your head. There's still gonna be PVE elements like quests, dungeons, and plenty of monsters to fight to please both fans of Pve and PVP.
Although, I understand WAR is gonna be heavily centered around PVP with it being the main focus point of the game. Don't worry, many people who are fans of PVE themed MMO's understand exactly what they'd be getting themselves into when purchasing WAR.. Were not a bunch of whinny little duechbag kids that complain when every MMO doesn't appeal to their play style. We unlike many typical pvper gamers out there actually research our games of choice before deciding to purchase the product. We "carebear" gamers like you waaa waaaa waaa pvper gamers like to call us wont flood the boards with hateful flame rants and rave threads if WAR's game mechanics don't appeal to us. We'll just quitely and dignitley walk away once we've had enough and move to something else.
So don't worry pondering why carebears would even consider playing WAR. We wont try to ruin or sabatoge the main elements of WAR for u kids, cause we know alot of you peons will be flocking over to WAR when it goes live.
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Unerstood and point well made. In the podcast it does show an illustration of the conflict resetting back into the neutral control zone. However it is my personal understanding that it is not going to be an instantanious event, but rather a battle over time where the enemy is actually PUSHED out of the city. Although I the actual mechanics of this will not be publicly known until the release date, I just can't see an automatic reset happening while you are still in complete control of a hostile capitol
I do agree with you here. There will be a build up of some sort that will act as a kind of in game warning that this iteration of the War is about to be reset. Suddenly the city streets you could walk down yesterday are a death trap today as city guards/resistance fighters start killing any hapless invader. More and more of the city will be reclaimed by the original inhabitants until the invaders are forced out and the War starts again.
It could also be that what the invaders do during this time dictates how long it takes for the city to be reclaimed by the original owners or it could be a set amount of time - no way to know. Whatever form it takes I do believe you are right in that it will not be a sudden event that leads to you being magically transported back to one of your own zones.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
in my opinion WAR will be as much PvE as PvP, as you have to fight guards at the enemy city, kill the lord/king whatever for the loot, try to keep the guards off of your back as they try to route you from their homeland.
with all of the PvE they have advertised, with the public quest system, and the completists dream come true in the tome of knowlege. the fact that the game will be centered around a war between thousands of PC's pushing for each others cities and i dont think that it will be so much PvP heavy or PvE light, but a nice mixture of the two and hopefully it will be seamless so you could be fighting wargs one minute then turn around and face off against a group of stunties (big greenskin fan here ).
this is my reading between the lines of the podcasts and interviews, newsletters and various other sources that the devs have released so far. and if they do manage to pull that off then there probably will not be that many players who this dont cater for.
btw a carebear in my view is a person who dont like to pvp at all and will go to lengths to avoid it, and if this is the case the im sure that WAR will not be for this type of gamer, but if in carebear you mean a PvE player who occasionally likes to PvP then i belive that WAR will cater for this type of player in abundance.
Okay. First let me say I love PVP in the right amounts and doses. If I can find a good fair game where each side has a chance nothing is more fun that pounding away at other players hoping to win the day with my team or squad. That said...Why would a carebear play this game? I am willing to admit that PVP players make up an incredibly small number of the population of successful MMO's today. If this game does not give the PVE centric players something MASSIVE and VERY soon they will have absolutely no reason to pay 50 bucks plus I'm assuming another 15 bucks a month to bother with this game. What this means is that it will amount to the same kind of population that DAoC has which is dismal at best. Same people same servers same ole crap ad nauseum. So again, why would a carebear...the largest population of players and the player base that determines a game's success, why would they play this? Honestly curious...
I can reassure you this game will have enough PvE content in it (PLAYER VERSUS ENVIRONMENT) to satisfy the so called "carebear" mobs for months to come (until expansion at least). If you are a casual gamer, than it will be even more.
My thoughts on this though while not being a "raid centric game" (like the MMO world needed another one ) how will they keep the folks who want this type of play (usually powerhouse no lifer guilds). I'm sure they will figure out something to bring these folks in the game also.
The way I am looking at it currently as a father of a 11 and 13 yr old, we could group probably through out the game and level doing just PvE missions if we wanted to (from what I been gathering from the devs at conventions and such).
Comments
DAOC population loss has nothing to do with "carebears." The population loss in DAOC had to deal with pushing away the casual player by changes to the RA system, NF, and ToA. On top of that, Mythic did nothing to keep growing the game and over time people play less and quit any game.
WAR is not a PvP game, but an RvR game. That is a big difference I do not see people picking up on. Open PvP anywhere at anytime is something that will drive "carebears" away. On the other hand, since most of the game will have safe areas to level in then there will be no ganking. Without the ganking then there is no reason for them to be driven away by the fact that you can kill other players. That is done in a specific area.
I think the real question you have in mind is that if there is little (or just sucky) PvE and the only draw is killing other players, then why would they play/stick with the game? Either they are hoping that the only players they get will be attracted to the RvR element and not care about PvE, or they will have to put in some interesting PvE options.
Same reason as for WoW: "My friends play it".
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
WAR is NOT gonna be like your typical mindless, senseless, fps killing game. So please get that out of your head. There's still gonna be PVE elements like quests, dungeons, and plenty of monsters to fight to please both fans of Pve and PVP.
Although, I understand WAR is gonna be heavily centered around PVP with it being the main focus point of the game. Don't worry, many people who are fans of PVE themed MMO's understand exactly what they'd be getting themselves into when purchasing WAR.. Were not a bunch of whinny little duechbag kids that complain when every MMO doesn't appeal to their play style. We unlike many typical pvper gamers out there actually research our games of choice before deciding to purchase the product. We "carebear" gamers like you waaa waaaa waaa pvper gamers like to call us wont flood the boards with hateful flame rants and rave threads if WAR's game mechanics don't appeal to us. We'll just quitely and dignitley walk away once we've had enough and move to something else.
So don't worry pondering why carebears would even consider playing WAR. We wont try to ruin or sabatoge the main elements of WAR for u kids, cause we know alot of you peons will be flocking over to WAR when it goes live.
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I do agree with you here. There will be a build up of some sort that will act as a kind of in game warning that this iteration of the War is about to be reset. Suddenly the city streets you could walk down yesterday are a death trap today as city guards/resistance fighters start killing any hapless invader. More and more of the city will be reclaimed by the original inhabitants until the invaders are forced out and the War starts again.
It could also be that what the invaders do during this time dictates how long it takes for the city to be reclaimed by the original owners or it could be a set amount of time - no way to know. Whatever form it takes I do believe you are right in that it will not be a sudden event that leads to you being magically transported back to one of your own zones.
Well now, I think we do want him... more money means happy developers which means more new gameplay added on a regular basis....
now you on the other hand.... AOC is that way-->
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
in my opinion WAR will be as much PvE as PvP, as you have to fight guards at the enemy city, kill the lord/king whatever for the loot, try to keep the guards off of your back as they try to route you from their homeland.
with all of the PvE they have advertised, with the public quest system, and the completists dream come true in the tome of knowlege. the fact that the game will be centered around a war between thousands of PC's pushing for each others cities and i dont think that it will be so much PvP heavy or PvE light, but a nice mixture of the two and hopefully it will be seamless so you could be fighting wargs one minute then turn around and face off against a group of stunties (big greenskin fan here
).
this is my reading between the lines of the podcasts and interviews, newsletters and various other sources that the devs have released so far. and if they do manage to pull that off then there probably will not be that many players who this dont cater for.
btw a carebear in my view is a person who dont like to pvp at all and will go to lengths to avoid it, and if this is the case the im sure that WAR will not be for this type of gamer, but if in carebear you mean a PvE player who occasionally likes to PvP then i belive that WAR will cater for this type of player in abundance.
Why would anyone over the age of 13 use the term "carebear" unless they were making fun of 13 yr olds? That's the real question.
Upon reading the thread further, I take that back. It is important to make whatever you write accessible to your target audience. Carry on.
My thoughts on this though while not being a "raid centric game" (like the MMO world needed another one
) how will they keep the folks who want this type of play (usually powerhouse no lifer guilds). I'm sure they will figure out something to bring these folks in the game also.
The way I am looking at it currently as a father of a 11 and 13 yr old, we could group probably through out the game and level doing just PvE missions if we wanted to (from what I been gathering from the devs at conventions and such).
This Game might be A importent Step in a Carebears life!
If Uber players can Pwn 10 Casual players of the same lvl this game will fail.
I think the success of this game will Rely heavily On Carebears , to come of age
And Growing some Balls.
Theres no hope!
I love carebears and i hope a "few" play WAR!
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.