I have not read this thread but it is because WoW is not very indepth, you don't choose your side, you cant lose only gain, you dont have to group, no player owned structures or reason to be in a guild other than to group with, which you dont have to do. it is just easy and obviously aimed a less hardcore crowd.
It isn't the same as food, a quality game costs more but because it is just software it can be copied for free, food has to be made each time. so the quality of the game is good it is just easy.
Ideally we need a game that can cater for both hardcore and the masses, because as stupid as they are they have money.
I have not read this thread but it is because WoW is not very indepth, you don't choose your side, you cant lose only gain, you dont have to group, no player owned structures or reason to be in a guild other than to group with, which you dont have to do. it is just easy and obviously aimed a less hardcore crowd.
It isn't the same as food, a quality game costs more but because it is just software it can be copied for free, food has to be made each time. so the quality of the game is good it is just easy.
Ideally we need a game that can cater for both hardcore and the masses, because as stupid as they are they have money.
I actually laughed out loud at work when I read this. My boss looked at me funny.
Let me critique the "points" you made sir:
1. "You don't choose your side" - Completely false. Yes, there are only two choices, Horde or Alliance, but by choosing one you cannot group or talk to the other side, and on a PvP server you can kill the other side everywhere but a few safe places. If you are complaining about not feeling like you are against the other side, you should have rolled on a PvP server. Not the game's fault, yours.
2. "You can't lose only gain" - This is actually somewhat true. You can't lose experience or any item you have via death. The way I think of it (and probably about 10 million others) is that instead of punishing players, you reward them. Makes sense to me. You just have to make sure you reward them for what they do, the effort and time they put in, not just reward them for nothing. WoW does this.
3. "You don't have to group" - If you never want to run an instance, PvP, raid, or complete an elite quest. So yes, you don't have to group if you want to avoid ~50% of the content in the game.
4. "No player owned structures" - This is true. Would I like to see open world housing in WoW like SWG or UO? No. The world isn't designed to have room for it. Would I like to see neighborhood type instanced housing ala LOTRO? Yes, that'd work perfectly for WoW. Instanced neighborhood based in each capital city would be cool.
5. "No reason to be in a guild other then grouping" - Both yes and no. It's a status symbol and avenue for grouping. Yes, a guild cannot control anything. Yes a guild is a great way to find a group for dungeons/raiding. But guilds also have reputations, achievements... a following. Go look up Nihilum.
6. "It's easy and obviously aimed at a less hardcore crowd" - 99% false. The leveling up portion of the game, going zone to zone questing, running instances, grinding mobs, etc. etc. is DESIGNED to be easier and more forgiving then the MMOs that came before WoW.
The end-game, both PvE and Pvp, crafting and farming, is just as "hardcore" if not MORE hardcore then any other MMORPG out there. I'm guessing you've never been in a serious raiding guild. Monday-Thursday 6-10pm raiding week after week is pretty damn hardcore in my book. Not to mention the hours spent playing Saturday/Sunday grinding mats for raid consumables and money for repairs, and the hours spent rep grinding instances and grinding BG's and Arena points....
That's about as hardcore and life-consuming of an end-game as you can get. It's why I quit playing WoW for a few months, and why I now am enjoying leveling up an alt rather then touching my main toon.
THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK, otherwise, you are just doing this :
6. "It's easy and obviously aimed at a less hardcore crowd" - 99% false. The leveling up portion of the game, going zone to zone questing, running instances, grinding mobs, etc. etc. is DESIGNED to be easier and more forgiving then the MMOs that came before WoW.
Ya, I found it harder to lvl up in WoW compared to most other games actually.
-In Everquest lvl'ing is a lot faster, it just takes a tad longer to max out, but solo can be much faster than WoW if you have some ok gear because the buffs overpower you.
-In Vanguard I lvl'd a lot faster than in WoW, the missions and solo quests give a lot more xp than in WoW.
Those are considered the 'hardcore MMO' but they're quite easy to lvl up in with a solo class.
I've always found it weird when someone said WoW was 'easy-mode', I actually found it more difficult. Maybe it's because it was my first time lvl'ing a toon, but I didn't find it easier than any other game.
It's considered an insult because WoW, over all, is a game with a small learning curve, very low system requirements, and pretty simplistic engines...so it's considered "simple".
In reality, all three of those things are exactly why it's the juggernaut that it is. Small learning curve=quick immersion in game, low system requirements=larger potential client base, simplistic engines=less bugs and issues....all these=more people playing.
I was in the Vanguard beta and pretty much each time I said in chat that this game is not ready to be released, I got ( go back to wow) or ( take that back to barrens chat).
I have not seen that phrase ingame in EVE, nor have I used it myself.
I respect Blizzard and the success they've had with WOW. Never played it, probably never will, but I imagine it would be fun for a little while.
But I do know this, there is a bit of a enmity between the fanbases of WOW and EVE here, or at least there was previously (most likely when EVE held the top voting spot).
It's just one of those catchy, fashionable phrases that people use now.
It is?
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
After the disappointment that was MMO2007, I took it seriously and went back to WoW. Of course I was just looking for something to hold me over til Conan in March, but...
You and your girlfriend or wife go with some friends your age to a nice restaurant to have some fancy steak dinners. One of your friends who is married brings his two young kids along. Once the sizzling top dollar steaks are served to your table, you hear one of the kids saying "Ewww dad, YUCK!". The childs father politely tells his child to behave and tells him in a sarcastic tone that not every dinner can be of McDonalds quality. This remark gets a good chuckle from most observers at the table, including the waiter. I've played World of Warcraft. And with all the childish bickering and whining especially when playing with almost any group I was ever invited into.. I never heard "Go back to UO" or "Go back to "EQ". However, when I've played "Eve" recently, Asheron's Call, and when I played Dark Age of Camelot a couple years back, certainly one of the biggest insults you can throw at somebody is to say something along the lines of "Go back to WoW, noob" And players that get told those words almost always get pissed and take it very personally, instantly trying to prove their worthiness to play whatever game it is that they are logged into. We certainly all know how popular World of Warcraft is, recently proclaiming 10 million active customers. But even with it's popularity, is it really such a low in overall quality in the general mmo community? Is WoW really "McDonalds compared to a fine quality steakhouse"? I mean everyone knows how many billions of burgers McDonalds has proclaimed to have sold (much like all the millions of customers Blizzard is so proud to make public). Quality very rarely equals Quantity. I personally think that World of Warcraft is a very high quality game, however it is just way too simple and has way too little actual challenge - atleast for me. However, it would be hard to say that some mmo that was more challenging but had a million bugs was "higher quality". World of Warcraft is a high quality game. But regardless of it's numbers, it sure seems to be the lowest of low and the laughing stock and where noobish players are condemned to so often inside more challenging and sophisticated mmos today. In that regard, World of Warcraft sure doesn't get a lot of respect. If you doubt me, fire up a free trial of Asherons Call and publicly ask on the general chat channel what players think about World of Warcraft. You'll be almost certain to draw laughter, insults and total abuse from anyone who even thinks you deserve an answer. Is it an over abused insult? It is funny? Is it a great insult? Is it ignorant? Oh yes.. if you want to flame me, that's perfectly fine. But as soon as you are done, "Go back to WoW" eh? {winks}
- Zaxx
Ive found a good analogy for this. Ive been playing guitar for about 15 years, and now I see kids in music stores banging on guitars with this wierd sort of vehemence that implies that they think they know what theyre doing. A few weeks ago I watched a clerk walk up to some teenagers, yank the guitar from his hands and he said, and I quote. "This is a REAL guitar kid, go back home and play some more guitar hero."
It's just one of those catchy, fashionable phrases that people use now.
It is?
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
After the disappointment that was MMO2007, I took it seriously and went back to WoW. Of course I was just looking for something to hold me over til Conan in March, but...
i bet you trolls wished the game your playing would be as succesfull as wow
Great Contribution to this topic my friend!
I aso hear that Hello Kitty is used as well as WoW as a form of insult. Many because its even more of a carebear game than WoW and it has more People than WoW.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
I use that phrase when someone comes to my game and bitches about deathpenalties, that he cant powerlevel, cant go into "battlegrounds", or just wants a pve-only-server.
Because i do not want my game to be like wow. And those people, if they love questgrinding and battlegrounds, then they should go back to the game that has perfected that:
i bet you trolls wished the game your playing would be as succesfull as wow
Hmm, mine is, (EVE) if we measure in criteria that matter to me (game play, economy, meaningful PVP etc) and not a factor that's unimportant in my gaming selection (subscriptions)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In the hardcore community of MMORPG nerds WoW is considered a game for idiots who can't understand the fun of complexity. Basically the insult means that the player is too stupid to understand the complexity of some other games and should therefore go back to the simplicity of WoW.
WoW is in some communities the equal of McDonalds. It's popular among teenagers and is by the more mature and connoisseurs considered simple. People who go to McDonalds don't understand what good food is.
In my opinion it's a lame insult that in 99% of the cases is 100% irrelevant. WoW is a good game as it's polished and well done, while it didn't bring much new to the market except making it mainstream saying "Go back to WoW" is just stupid and lame. There is simply no arguments to back up you're comment if it's intended as a insult. Why should this person go back to WoW? Because you despise WoW and think it's lame?
A lot of it has to do with the fact that WoW has actually ruined mmorpgs in hardcore gamers opinions. Things like SWG that were great, got mutilated because of WoW. So there is a fear that if someone comes into a hardcore game and whines about how hard it is, that eventually that will have an impact on the game. Not to mention listening to whining about negative aspects of a game you are playing and enjoying is very annoying. Imagine going to a movie, you are enjoying the movie, and then the person sitting next to you starts saying negative comments through the whole thing. It taints the experience. Later, you don't remember what you liked about the movie, you remember the bad things that were said.
That's my biggest beef really. The global chat is not the proper place to criticize the game. Please take it somewhere else. If you are upset by the games mechanics, that may mean that another mmo might be a better fit. Often, WoW IS this better mmo.
Now in cases where hardcore geeks are insulting players who are actually trying to learn the game, this is a terrible insult. I would think you would want to help these newbies learn to play, so that your game has more players, equaling a healthier game. The attitude of not wanting new people to play is ruining your game, and the phrase "go back to WoW" in this instance is one reason WoW is so popular! No ugly elitism.
But yeah, if I'm enjoying a game and someone is constantly going on about how it sucks, or how other games have x feature and this one doesn't, I will tell him to go back to WoW. He's ruining my fun, I don't want him around, and if the "other" game was so much better, why isn't he playing it?
Every time a new post is made in this thread I just laugh and laugh and laugh...
Ya'll have NO idea what words like "hardcore" and "challenge" mean.. you use them in your posts because they are "buzz" words. Words you've heard other rabid fanbois/haters spit out time and time again on these forums.
You interpret their meanings based off the unintelligent ramblings of some L337 kid who actually has no idea what they mean.
I've heard your EXACT same arguments about WoW being for "carebears" and how it has "ruined" this or that because things used to be so much more "hardcore" and "complex" and now WoW is "simplistic" blah blah blah blah blah
PLEASE
shut up. Learn to think before speaking(typing) learn to not repeat the same inane ramblings of the 13,876 posters before you who said the same exact thing (who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?)
The amusing thing is that this "insult" is just a fact that proves how much "pop culture" WoW has became. The "MMO veterans" that use it, all they do is promote the game by that and nothing more or less. Other than that is very pointless.
The amusing thing is that this "insult" is just a fact that proves how much "pop culture" WoW has became. The "MMO veterans" that use it, all they do is promote the game by that and nothing more or less. Other than that is very pointless.
As opposed to insults that aren't very pointless?
As opposed to things that are actually productive in the game
A friend is not him who provides support during your failures.A friend is the one that cheers you during your successes.
Comments
I have not read this thread but it is because WoW is not very indepth, you don't choose your side, you cant lose only gain, you dont have to group, no player owned structures or reason to be in a guild other than to group with, which you dont have to do. it is just easy and obviously aimed a less hardcore crowd.
It isn't the same as food, a quality game costs more but because it is just software it can be copied for free, food has to be made each time. so the quality of the game is good it is just easy.
Ideally we need a game that can cater for both hardcore and the masses, because as stupid as they are they have money.
I say go back to WoW
if the player is whining how XX game isnt like WOW
EQ2 fan sites
i bet you trolls wished the game your playing would be as succesfull as wow
I actually laughed out loud at work when I read this. My boss looked at me funny.
Let me critique the "points" you made sir:
1. "You don't choose your side" - Completely false. Yes, there are only two choices, Horde or Alliance, but by choosing one you cannot group or talk to the other side, and on a PvP server you can kill the other side everywhere but a few safe places. If you are complaining about not feeling like you are against the other side, you should have rolled on a PvP server. Not the game's fault, yours.
2. "You can't lose only gain" - This is actually somewhat true. You can't lose experience or any item you have via death. The way I think of it (and probably about 10 million others) is that instead of punishing players, you reward them. Makes sense to me. You just have to make sure you reward them for what they do, the effort and time they put in, not just reward them for nothing. WoW does this.
3. "You don't have to group" - If you never want to run an instance, PvP, raid, or complete an elite quest. So yes, you don't have to group if you want to avoid ~50% of the content in the game.
4. "No player owned structures" - This is true. Would I like to see open world housing in WoW like SWG or UO? No. The world isn't designed to have room for it. Would I like to see neighborhood type instanced housing ala LOTRO? Yes, that'd work perfectly for WoW. Instanced neighborhood based in each capital city would be cool.
5. "No reason to be in a guild other then grouping" - Both yes and no. It's a status symbol and avenue for grouping. Yes, a guild cannot control anything. Yes a guild is a great way to find a group for dungeons/raiding. But guilds also have reputations, achievements... a following. Go look up Nihilum.
6. "It's easy and obviously aimed at a less hardcore crowd" - 99% false. The leveling up portion of the game, going zone to zone questing, running instances, grinding mobs, etc. etc. is DESIGNED to be easier and more forgiving then the MMOs that came before WoW.
The end-game, both PvE and Pvp, crafting and farming, is just as "hardcore" if not MORE hardcore then any other MMORPG out there. I'm guessing you've never been in a serious raiding guild. Monday-Thursday 6-10pm raiding week after week is pretty damn hardcore in my book. Not to mention the hours spent playing Saturday/Sunday grinding mats for raid consumables and money for repairs, and the hours spent rep grinding instances and grinding BG's and Arena points....
That's about as hardcore and life-consuming of an end-game as you can get. It's why I quit playing WoW for a few months, and why I now am enjoying leveling up an alt rather then touching my main toon.
THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK, otherwise, you are just doing this :
Ya, I found it harder to lvl up in WoW compared to most other games actually.
-In Everquest lvl'ing is a lot faster, it just takes a tad longer to max out, but solo can be much faster than WoW if you have some ok gear because the buffs overpower you.
-In Vanguard I lvl'd a lot faster than in WoW, the missions and solo quests give a lot more xp than in WoW.
Those are considered the 'hardcore MMO' but they're quite easy to lvl up in with a solo class.
I've always found it weird when someone said WoW was 'easy-mode', I actually found it more difficult. Maybe it's because it was my first time lvl'ing a toon, but I didn't find it easier than any other game.
I figure anyone who is actualy insulted by it deserves it.
It's considered an insult because WoW, over all, is a game with a small learning curve, very low system requirements, and pretty simplistic engines...so it's considered "simple".
In reality, all three of those things are exactly why it's the juggernaut that it is. Small learning curve=quick immersion in game, low system requirements=larger potential client base, simplistic engines=less bugs and issues....all these=more people playing.
I was in the Vanguard beta and pretty much each time I said in chat that this game is not ready to be released, I got ( go back to wow) or ( take that back to barrens chat).
I have not seen that phrase ingame in EVE, nor have I used it myself.
I respect Blizzard and the success they've had with WOW. Never played it, probably never will, but I imagine it would be fun for a little while.
But I do know this, there is a bit of a enmity between the fanbases of WOW and EVE here, or at least there was previously (most likely when EVE held the top voting spot).
It's just one of those catchy, fashionable phrases that people use now.
It is?
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
After the disappointment that was MMO2007, I took it seriously and went back to WoW. Of course I was just looking for something to hold me over til Conan in March, but...
Ive found a good analogy for this. Ive been playing guitar for about 15 years, and now I see kids in music stores banging on guitars with this wierd sort of vehemence that implies that they think they know what theyre doing. A few weeks ago I watched a clerk walk up to some teenagers, yank the guitar from his hands and he said, and I quote. "This is a REAL guitar kid, go back home and play some more guitar hero."
It is?
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
After the disappointment that was MMO2007, I took it seriously and went back to WoW. Of course I was just looking for something to hold me over til Conan in March, but...
Yeah really it is. Seriously
I aso hear that Hello Kitty is used as well as WoW as a form of insult. Many because its even more of a carebear game than WoW and it has more People than WoW.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
I use that phrase when someone comes to my game and bitches about deathpenalties, that he cant powerlevel, cant go into "battlegrounds", or just wants a pve-only-server.
Because i do not want my game to be like wow. And those people, if they love questgrinding and battlegrounds, then they should go back to the game that has perfected that:
World of Warcraft.
Hmm, mine is, (EVE) if we measure in criteria that matter to me (game play, economy, meaningful PVP etc) and not a factor that's unimportant in my gaming selection (subscriptions)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In the hardcore community of MMORPG nerds WoW is considered a game for idiots who can't understand the fun of complexity. Basically the insult means that the player is too stupid to understand the complexity of some other games and should therefore go back to the simplicity of WoW.
WoW is in some communities the equal of McDonalds. It's popular among teenagers and is by the more mature and connoisseurs considered simple. People who go to McDonalds don't understand what good food is.
In my opinion it's a lame insult that in 99% of the cases is 100% irrelevant. WoW is a good game as it's polished and well done, while it didn't bring much new to the market except making it mainstream saying "Go back to WoW" is just stupid and lame. There is simply no arguments to back up you're comment if it's intended as a insult. Why should this person go back to WoW? Because you despise WoW and think it's lame?
A lot of it has to do with the fact that WoW has actually ruined mmorpgs in hardcore gamers opinions. Things like SWG that were great, got mutilated because of WoW. So there is a fear that if someone comes into a hardcore game and whines about how hard it is, that eventually that will have an impact on the game. Not to mention listening to whining about negative aspects of a game you are playing and enjoying is very annoying. Imagine going to a movie, you are enjoying the movie, and then the person sitting next to you starts saying negative comments through the whole thing. It taints the experience. Later, you don't remember what you liked about the movie, you remember the bad things that were said.
That's my biggest beef really. The global chat is not the proper place to criticize the game. Please take it somewhere else. If you are upset by the games mechanics, that may mean that another mmo might be a better fit. Often, WoW IS this better mmo.
Now in cases where hardcore geeks are insulting players who are actually trying to learn the game, this is a terrible insult. I would think you would want to help these newbies learn to play, so that your game has more players, equaling a healthier game. The attitude of not wanting new people to play is ruining your game, and the phrase "go back to WoW" in this instance is one reason WoW is so popular! No ugly elitism.
But yeah, if I'm enjoying a game and someone is constantly going on about how it sucks, or how other games have x feature and this one doesn't, I will tell him to go back to WoW. He's ruining my fun, I don't want him around, and if the "other" game was so much better, why isn't he playing it?
Every time a new post is made in this thread I just laugh and laugh and laugh...
Ya'll have NO idea what words like "hardcore" and "challenge" mean.. you use them in your posts because they are "buzz" words. Words you've heard other rabid fanbois/haters spit out time and time again on these forums.
You interpret their meanings based off the unintelligent ramblings of some L337 kid who actually has no idea what they mean.
I've heard your EXACT same arguments about WoW being for "carebears" and how it has "ruined" this or that because things used to be so much more "hardcore" and "complex" and now WoW is "simplistic" blah blah blah blah blah
PLEASE
shut up. Learn to think before speaking(typing) learn to not repeat the same inane ramblings of the 13,876 posters before you who said the same exact thing (who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?)
The amusing thing is that this "insult" is just a fact that proves how much "pop culture" WoW has became.
The "MMO veterans" that use it, all they do is promote the game by that and nothing more or less. Other than that is very pointless.
A friend is not him who provides support during your failures.A friend is the one that cheers you during your successes.
As opposed to insults that aren't very pointless?
As opposed to insults that aren't very pointless?
As opposed to things that are actually productive in the game
A friend is not him who provides support during your failures.A friend is the one that cheers you during your successes.
An insult is insulting, very interesting.
Go back to WoW
Ha ha , just kidding.
Go back to WoW
Ha ha , just kidding.
HEEROBYA STOMP! HEEROBYA KILL!!!
lol jk