umm you guys completely miss the point (probably deliberately but oh well...)
First of all, if you read my initial reply carefully again you will see that i didnt even critisise LOTRO. LOTRO is a good game ok? The difference is that its a different concept - its interactive story telling which seems very popular since so many enjoy consuming a story they have no influence on and already know the outcome.
I find this new concept quite intresting and entertaining in a certain way - and will of course look into lotro from time to time just out of curiosity how it developes.
The examples i gave where made for different intention in everquest yes - they where to avoid mass farming of the items dropping from nagafen and other bosses. But they had the intresting side effect that guilds had to communicate and check certain things in tne world, spy alts where placed all over the world to always have a good knowledge what is going on in norrath AT THE GIVEN TIME. LOTRO has no given time at all - all it has is story consuming carbon copies of core class templates. Enough people at the right step: Woot! lets unlock the next 20 seconds of the cartoon movie story.
What is amusing is that you guys keep defending lotro as a "next generation mmoRPG" which it is clearly not. Maybe i am picking beans here when i say - yes its a "next generation MMO" but thats just how i am. I respect everyone who has fun in LOTRO - i had fun too for a while because the atmosphere IS nice at start (only disturbed by stupid and ugly animations but else: perfect).
Yes live and let live, for me LOTRO is not to play, i will look once in a while but at the moment i have no motivation, because watching a cartoon movie is not why i play games. But now its easter holiday and i hope you all have fun in middle earth spring "event" thingy.
I haven't read through all the posts but could it be that we are all tired of the MMO genre? The market is getting saturated with all of them. I, for one, have played SWG, MxO, DAoC, Pirates, WOW and countless more that I cannot remember right now. Unfortunately, all MMO's are similar in design, they all have levels and/or skills to learn, quests to do to level up. Same idea, different engine ;P. Even the new ones coming, like Warhammer Online or even Age of Conan, although they sound exciting at first, wil eventually become boring after a while.
I feel that most of us play MMO's just to get to the final level. We want to reach the end game as quickly as we can. It's unfortunate. I think this site should be called MMOG; leave the RP out since a lot of players don't do it anyways ;P
However, maybe including roleplay in game would spice it up a bit? Once, I decided to craft good armor for low levels, spammed it in the low level area for someone that wanted it and decided to spend some time questing with that person. Although I did not gain experience, I had fun Another time, I launched a music contest in game. That was awesome. Around 20/30 people showed up. It was a blast.
I think we , as players of MMO's, need to create our own fun. It's unfair to expect the developers to do it all for us.
I agree with the poster above me MMORPG's have really became boring lately. For me, this happened when I hit the maximum level in WoW. After that I haven't played anything for one year. LOTRO is like a copy of WoW, it has nothing new and it was boring.
Any game can be good if you just have friends to play it with. Once I played one 2D 16bit oldschool mmorpg (Dransik) for three years because I had friends playing it too, and the community was awesome. There were couple of guilds, and they really had wars and alliances with each other. PK guilds sometimes cheated some newbies to follow them to some exciting place and then ambushed the poor player with the whole guild. It was really awesome, even though the game was only 1.5 megabytes in size. It also had only a few quests, but it's still the best mmorp g I've ever played.
The communities of these new games is so big, that people don't really know each other. That's why I prefer less-known games with a small but intense communities.
I agree with the poster above me MMORPG's have really became boring lately. For me, this happened when I hit the maximum level in WoW. After that I haven't played anything for one year. LOTRO is like a copy of WoW, it has nothing new and it was boring. Any game can be good if you just have friends to play it with. Once I played one 2D 16bit oldschool mmorpg (Dransik) for three years because I had friends playing it too, and the community was awesome. There were couple of guilds, and they really had wars and alliances with each other. PK guilds sometimes cheated some newbies to follow them to some exciting place and then ambushed the poor player with the whole guild. It was really awesome, even though the game was only 1.5 megabytes in size. It also had only a few quests, but it's still the best mmorp g I've ever played. The communities of these new games is so big, that people don't really know each other. That's why I prefer less-known games with a small but intense communities.
/signed.
Lotro never hooked me either, it has almost no learning curve. Nothing to uncover or find out - its all so obvious in the Turbine middle earth for my taste You expressed that better: it is boring.
LOTRO looks like a great game with beautifully rendered artwork, but I haven't tried it because I can't see how it can be set in the middle of the book, it just doesn't make sense to me. I know I am probably being too fussy, but having read most of the posts, I think many of the issues other people have stem from the same basic paradox.
In the books, Middle-Earth is a fairly small closed world where people are easily recognised. There aren't many powerful warriors or mages & the central characters in the book are not that even that powerful in MMO terms. Even my 'Fae Wizard' in EQ2 is possibly more powerful than Gandalf, but I digress.
How can the fate of all Middle-Earth really be dependant on a small party of hobbits when there are scores of 'Uber Raiding Guilds' ? If players occasionally get a chance to meet the central characters from the book, how can Gandalf, Aragorn & Frodo fail to notice that more competent help is readily at hand?
Moving on to the other side of the coin, in most MMOs player rarely get to influence the world but in LOTRO it is ruled out from the start by definition. Players want to get a chance to have more meaningful quests & battles, but how can they when that would surely alter the course of events? If players can't do anything that disrupts the plot of the book, I assume that must be why there are so many random kill quests.
Personally I think it would be more interesting if LOTRO established itself as a parallel universe & branched off from the main plot of the book, but I assume the 'Tolkien Family' have already ruled that out. Maybe not though, since they allowed Peter Jackson to take quite a few liberties with the films when it came to 'Legolas Fan Service' & 'Action Sequences' like the 'Gandalf Mount Doom Molten Lava Rescue' .
I still think it looks like a great game, but at least for me that is why it doesn't appeal.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
I agree completly with OP. I can't say what is wrong with LOTRO, because I can't find anything worng, really. It has everythig that is supposed to be there, it has a nice style, nice graphics, and a nice version of Middle earth. Really nothing to complain about... But I cant play it for more than a few weeks before being bored out of my skull and I don't know why. In some ways.... In some ways it feels like one big middle road, they have just enough of everything but stand out in nothing. There is no... hook. This last year, even Anarchy Online has gotten more time than LotRO.
I have wished several times to be able to pinpoint exactly what the problem is, to be able to convey that to the developers, but all I can say is: Really good work. I am impressed. I don't like it.
Sound like Andy
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
I agree with the poster above me MMORPG's have really became boring lately. For me, this happened when I hit the maximum level in WoW. After that I haven't played anything for one year. LOTRO is like a copy of WoW, it has nothing new and it was boring. Any game can be good if you just have friends to play it with. Once I played one 2D 16bit oldschool mmorpg (Dransik) for three years because I had friends playing it too, and the community was awesome. There were couple of guilds, and they really had wars and alliances with each other. PK guilds sometimes cheated some newbies to follow them to some exciting place and then ambushed the poor player with the whole guild. It was really awesome, even though the game was only 1.5 megabytes in size. It also had only a few quests, but it's still the best mmorp g I've ever played. The communities of these new games is so big, that people don't really know each other. That's why I prefer less-known games with a small but intense communities.
/signed.
Lotro never hooked me either, it has almost no learning curve. Nothing to uncover or find out - its all so obvious in the Turbine middle earth for my taste You expressed that better: it is boring.
happy easter!
Hmm... i'm going to disagree on the "Nothing to uncover" part.
Why is Sara Oakheart always showing up in the middle of trouble?
What is she doing in Fornost?
What is the deal with the Nazgul "imposters" in the Shire?
What connection does the brigand forces around Bree have with the orcs and Saruman?
Why are some Earth-kin friendly and others attack you?
Why did the Giants break their alliance with the Dwarfs and Elves?
Why are some dwarfs evil?
Don't have much time today... so I'll have to stop there... but suffice to say. I could post quite a list of "unknown" elements that unless you played through them... you'd not know the answer to.
I agree with the poster above me MMORPG's have really became boring lately. For me, this happened when I hit the maximum level in WoW. After that I haven't played anything for one year. LOTRO is like a copy of WoW, it has nothing new and it was boring. Any game can be good if you just have friends to play it with. Once I played one 2D 16bit oldschool mmorpg (Dransik) for three years because I had friends playing it too, and the community was awesome. There were couple of guilds, and they really had wars and alliances with each other. PK guilds sometimes cheated some newbies to follow them to some exciting place and then ambushed the poor player with the whole guild. It was really awesome, even though the game was only 1.5 megabytes in size. It also had only a few quests, but it's still the best mmorp g I've ever played. The communities of these new games is so big, that people don't really know each other. That's why I prefer less-known games with a small but intense communities.
/signed.
Lotro never hooked me either, it has almost no learning curve. Nothing to uncover or find out - its all so obvious in the Turbine middle earth for my taste You expressed that better: it is boring.
happy easter!
Hmm... i'm going to disagree on the "Nothing to uncover" part.
Why is Sara Oakheart always showing up in the middle of trouble?
What is she doing in Fornost?
What is the deal with the Nazgul "imposters" in the Shire?
What connection does the brigand forces around Bree have with the orcs and Saruman?
Why are some Earth-kin friendly and others attack you?
Why did the Giants break their alliance with the Dwarfs and Elves?
Why are some dwarfs evil?
Don't have much time today... so I'll have to stop there... but suffice to say. I could post quite a list of "unknown" elements that unless you played through them... you'd not know the answer to.
I was thinking about game mechanical aspects and the learning curve to travel and play your avatar the most powerful and / or useful way for yourself and / or your fellowship.
But now that you mention it yes, the story elements are boring too.
I think we can all agree that if you analyze any MMO you'll find gaps, flaws, bugs, and inconsistancies galore. Making giant worlds on a budget and deadline means corners will be cut. Sometimes they won't be immediatly obvious but every little shortcut will in time become visable as players run by the same locations over and over again during their years of play.
Initally I believe the posts to this thread were trying to explain what it was about the game that didn't appeal to them, or turned them off to the game. I tried myself to articulate why I couldn't get engrossed in the game, and of course there are those stalwart defenders who will take every opertunity to tout their favorite game of the moment. It happens in every game forum.
But reading over this thread I feel the topic has wandered into looking for flaws to justify why you didn't like the game. But it boils down to this, no game will be all things to all people. Even WoW with it's mass appeal dosn't appeal to everyone. A good majority of people yes, and for that they are a smashing success and will be remembered in the annals of history as one of the milestones.
Either by getting bored, not finding the same level of immursion as a childhood adventure, or craving something a bit less high fantasy, there will always be reasons some people are not turned on by one game or another. I believe we can all agree that some folks just don't like chocolate ice cream no matter how much the next person tries to convince them chocolate is the greatest flavor ever.
One thing is for sure LOTRO has definitely worst map system ive seen in sub MMO games. Why did they do such a horrible maps i beyond me. Sometimes its almost impossible to recognize location on the map and location you are actually on. There is no way i can put my own pointers on the map etc
One more thing i have a problem with is that finding quest location takes 30% of time, walking to the quest 60% of time and actually doing the quest is 10% or less.
It true, graphics looks great but models and animations are horrible. Looks like they didn't hear for motion capturing in Turbine.
One thing is for sure LOTRO has definitely worst map system ive seen in sub MMO games. Why did they do such a horrible maps i beyond me. Sometimes its almost impossible to recognize location on the map and location you are actually on. There is no way i can put my own pointers on the map etc One more thing i have a problem with is that finding quest location takes 30% of time, walking to the quest 60% of time and actually doing the quest is 10% or less. It true, graphics looks great but models and animations are horrible. Looks like they didn't hear for motion capturing in Turbine.
Actually from what I have seen thus far the maps are in correspondence to Tolkien's original maps and writings on the subject. Thus for those of us that follow Tolkien's theme, as originally intended, the maps are part of the immersion process.
I think we can all agree that if you analyze any MMO you'll find gaps, flaws, bugs, and inconsistancies galore. Making giant worlds on a budget and deadline means corners will be cut. Sometimes they won't be immediatly obvious but every little shortcut will in time become visable as players run by the same locations over and over again during their years of play. Initally I believe the posts to this thread were trying to explain what it was about the game that didn't appeal to them, or turned them off to the game. I tried myself to articulate why I couldn't get engrossed in the game, and of course there are those stalwart defenders who will take every opertunity to tout their favorite game of the moment. It happens in every game forum. But reading over this thread I feel the topic has wandered into looking for flaws to justify why you didn't like the game. But it boils down to this, no game will be all things to all people. Even WoW with it's mass appeal dosn't appeal to everyone. A good majority of people yes, and for that they are a smashing success and will be remembered in the annals of history as one of the milestones. Either by getting bored, not finding the same level of immursion as a childhood adventure, or craving something a bit less high fantasy, there will always be reasons some people are not turned on by one game or another. I believe we can all agree that some folks just don't like chocolate ice cream no matter how much the next person tries to convince them chocolate is the greatest flavor ever.
Well said.
If nothing else, I've tried to stay consistent on that point. No MMO will ever appeal to all players... LoTRo is no exception.
It offers a nice community for those that like to have fun in Turbine's vision of Tolkien's universe.
I agree with the poster above me MMORPG's have really became boring lately. For me, this happened when I hit the maximum level in WoW. After that I haven't played anything for one year. LOTRO is like a copy of WoW, it has nothing new and it was boring. Any game can be good if you just have friends to play it with. Once I played one 2D 16bit oldschool mmorpg (Dransik) for three years because I had friends playing it too, and the community was awesome. There were couple of guilds, and they really had wars and alliances with each other. PK guilds sometimes cheated some newbies to follow them to some exciting place and then ambushed the poor player with the whole guild. It was really awesome, even though the game was only 1.5 megabytes in size. It also had only a few quests, but it's still the best mmorp g I've ever played. The communities of these new games is so big, that people don't really know each other. That's why I prefer less-known games with a small but intense communities.
/signed.
Lotro never hooked me either, it has almost no learning curve. Nothing to uncover or find out - its all so obvious in the Turbine middle earth for my taste You expressed that better: it is boring.
happy easter!
Hmm... i'm going to disagree on the "Nothing to uncover" part.
Why is Sara Oakheart always showing up in the middle of trouble?
What is she doing in Fornost?
What is the deal with the Nazgul "imposters" in the Shire?
What connection does the brigand forces around Bree have with the orcs and Saruman?
Why are some Earth-kin friendly and others attack you?
Why did the Giants break their alliance with the Dwarfs and Elves?
Why are some dwarfs evil?
Don't have much time today... so I'll have to stop there... but suffice to say. I could post quite a list of "unknown" elements that unless you played through them... you'd not know the answer to.
I was thinking about game mechanical aspects and the learning curve to travel and play your avatar the most powerful and / or useful way for yourself and / or your fellowship.
But now that you mention it yes, the story elements are boring too.
cya
Well, glad I could help you articulate your point. Your welcome. I still happen to disagree though.
Reading this thread got me curious about the LoTR, so I downloaded the trial to see for myself...
I now see what everyone is talking about when they say that something is missing. The game itself is solid. But I agree with alot of you. Something is missing. But to me, its obvious....
Its Bland. There is nothing Vibrant about it. Nothing to me that set it apart.
The quests (or atleast the ones I did during my trial) were very cookie cutter. Same ol same ol you see in every other MMO. Very well written and thought out. But basicly just go kill blah blah blah, or go collect blah blah blah. Been done to death in other mmo's
The character customization was good. But nothing spectacular like CoH/CoV. Or SWG.
The animations were also very basic and unimpressive. Combat animations seemed kind of basic and clunky to me. Even the emotes were very 'Meh'.
The landscape is very nice. Very pretty. But I felt more like I was 'Looking' at it, instead of feeling like I was apart of it. It remided me of a painting you would see hanging at your grandmothers house. Like I was playing in someones paint by numbers.
The User Interface is good. Easy to use, and easy to learn. Mostly because its just like all the other User Interfaces out there.
I admit that I only played the trial, and that I didnt truely expierence the game the way it should have been. But I did feel like the game was definately good, but like alot of you it just didnt keep me. But to me it was obvious. There is simply nothing about this game that is innovative. Nothing setting it apart at its most basic levels.
When I play LoTR, I feel like Im playing every other mmo Ive played before. Its as if Ive already been playing this game for several years.... and its boring now. Its still a great game. But Ive already done this... alot... Moving on..
Oh solareus, you edited away the bulk of your last reply. When I read your first version, I keep thinking, are you part of the LOTRo development or support team?
I have no idea what your talking about..
It is great game though, every single one of the people who have posted in this thread have admitted, "its a great game"
Isn't that wonderful !
I fully agree with you, LOTRo is lovely, a most polished game. No flaws I can put my finger at.
I have left LOTRo, maybe its my own fault, I left MMOs since LOTRo. I still have the feeling that something is missing in the game, something that captures players and enslave them to addiction. That magical element is missing.
I will come back to Moria, Isengard, Mordor and beyond. If they open the map to the special retreat of the Elves, I will follow. Since I am a lifetimer, I can afford to wait and return. I am curious to see how they paint moria, and the new zones, but somehow I lack the incentive to log on everyday just to play the same old zones. That is odd, given my previous addictions from EQ to DAoC/CoX and beyond. Even EQ2 kept me online for a year. LOTRo, with its stunning professional touch, cannot kept me online longer. That is what baffles me.
Oh solareus, you edited away the bulk of your last reply. When I read your first version, I keep thinking, are you part of the LOTRo development or support team?
I have no idea what your talking about..
It is great game though, every single one of the people who have posted in this thread have admitted, "its a great game"
Isn't that wonderful !
I fully agree with you, LOTRo is lovely, a most polished game. No flaws I can put my finger at.
I have left LOTRo, maybe its my own fault, I left MMOs since LOTRo. I still have the feeling that something is missing in the game, something that captures players and enslave them to addiction. That magical element is missing.
I will come back to Moria, Isengard, Mordor and beyond. If they open the map to the special retreat of the Elves, I will follow. Since I am a lifetimer, I can afford to wait and return. I am curious to see how they paint moria, and the new zones, but somehow I lack the incentive to log on everyday just to play the same old zones. That is odd, given my previous addictions from EQ to DAoC/CoX and beyond. Even EQ2 kept me online for a year. LOTRo, with its stunning professional touch, cannot kept me online longer. That is what baffles me.
I think it's just a case of one mans trash is another's treasure, and all that. I wouldn't think it out too hard. Just play something else for a while, an bop back in and check things out when book 13 luanches, or when Moria comes down the pipe.
Me personally, the reason I like the game so much is that I've been at the cap for months now, and I'm still having fun. In most MMOs I hit the cap and get bored out my skull within a month. After that it's just a matter of time until my sheer apathy for the game wins out over the social obligations I feel to the folks I've met. The sole exception was DAoC. I actually enjoyed that endgame for a good while.
The thing to me is that most MMOs don't have anythiong to do for an employed human that needs to sleep. Raids are among the worst culprits here. With my "once per week at most" potential raiding schedule, I have no real hope of seeing the majority of any MMO with a deep linear raiding endgame. In LoTRO, the raids aren't a series of doors you go through one at a time. Instead it's a big circular room, and you go through whatever door you feel like. Sure, each passage dead ends, but at least you get to stick your head in an see all the rooms. I like that.
And if you don't feel like raiding, you can always craft, do book quests, or PvP. You end up with gear that's about the same. I don't like other MMOs where I have all these valid routes of advancement all the way to the cap, and then suddenly I get stuck.
Several big name MMOs when you hit the cap basically say:
"OH I'm sorry, did you enjoy crafting and doing solo/ small party content? Well screw you. Join a big raiding guild or quit, we really don't care. Thants for your 4 months of subs though...ahahaha!"
F-ck that.
Of course I also find the game itself completely charming. The "feel" of LoTRO really appeals to me. I like the art direction. I like the design of the classes (well most of them). I like the trait system. I like the crafting system. I like the housing system. I like the title system. And the storytelling and presentation are seond to none. The sheer depth of the lore that they have to draw has apparantly been fertile ground for the designers. And if you notice, all these things are just strait up personal preference.
If you prefer something different, well the game isn't going to hold your interest as long. If so, no biggie. Find something you like better.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Thank Yeebo, very polite reply. Its the community of LOTRo that sparkles, everyone so friendly and tolerant.
I do like LOTRo, the lore, the story. I have maxed level, maxed crafting, 5 of them. Yes I did put in my time, and I have finished Helegrod, many runs, with 3 of my 5. I agree that the game is very casual friendly, and the community best among all the games I ever tried.
Maybe its me, I somehow lost the zeal to log onto any games. LOTRo is the last game I played. No more games since, not even the closed betas I got into. I will definitely return to LOTRo when Moria and more zones are opened. See you there.
Thank Yeebo, very polite reply. Its the community of LOTRo that sparkles, everyone so friendly and tolerant. I do like LOTRo, the lore, the story. I have maxed level, maxed crafting, 5 of them. Yes I did put in my time, and I have finished Helegrod, many runs, with 3 of my 5. I agree that the game is very casual friendly, and the community best among all the games I ever tried. Maybe its me, I somehow lost the zeal to log onto any games. LOTRo is the last game I played. No more games since, not even the closed betas I got into. I will definitely return to LOTRo when Moria and more zones are opened. See you there.
Anyone with that amount of time sank into any MMO on this planet would have all the right in the world to feel jaded - I can reassure you, it is totally normal.
Let's hope Turbine does not slow down with upcoming content, so you can happily jump back to the game to discover new areas, quests, game aspects (fishing yeeeah , and join us casuals for a little more - again and again
Till then - see ya'
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
has is story consuming carbon copies of core class templates. Enough people at the right step: Woot! lets unlock the next 20 seconds of the cartoon movie story. What is amusing is that you guys keep defending lotro as a "next generation mmoRPG" which it is clearly not. Maybe i am picking beans here when i say - yes its a "next generation MMO" but thats just how i am. I respect everyone who has fun in LOTRO - i had fun too for a while because the atmosphere IS nice at start (only disturbed by stupid and ugly animations but else: perfect).
This discussion is boring we have we same since the relase.
Now Lotro has 2 types of subs
1° new subs discovering the shire and old forest, until they'll reach lvl 35, they 'll think Lotro is a great game. They payed 19$ for a game + 1 month, no doubt, they'll have fun 1 month (maybe 2/3)
2° lifetime subs: they CANT say Lotro isn't MEO. They CANT. As they payed LTS = 16 months of subs on 1 payment they MUST stay on Lotro till they reach 16th month... Tha'ts the reality. So they refuse to say and admit HERE Lotro is only a polished but small clone, no more no less.
3° Gave chances to Lotro, but decided to cancel. Cant' play wow, can't play lotro.
4° Lotro's community has nothing special. Eve cty, DAOC EQ2 VG SWG cties are GREAT and MATURE.
So PLEASE STOP NOW trying to explain Lotro is full of 40/50 years old and VG/EQ/EVE/DAOC are games for kids and immature persons. I'm 40 years old, and IMO, Lotro has not mature content : as you' ll only have to BASH to BASH and BASH again , that's not I call a mature content.
has is story consuming carbon copies of core class templates. Enough people at the right step: Woot! lets unlock the next 20 seconds of the cartoon movie story. What is amusing is that you guys keep defending lotro as a "next generation mmoRPG" which it is clearly not. Maybe i am picking beans here when i say - yes its a "next generation MMO" but thats just how i am. I respect everyone who has fun in LOTRO - i had fun too for a while because the atmosphere IS nice at start (only disturbed by stupid and ugly animations but else: perfect).
This discussion is boring we have we same since the relase.
Now Lotro has 2 types of subs
1° new subs discovering the shire and old forest, until they'll reach lvl 35, they 'll think Lotro is a great game. They payed 19$ for a game + 1 month, no doubt, they'll have fun 1 month (maybe 2/3)
2° lifetime subs: they CANT say Lotro isn't MEO. They CANT. As they payed LTS = 16 months of subs on 1 payment they MUST stay on Lotro till they reach 16th month... Tha'ts the reality. So they refuse to say and admit HERE Lotro is only a polished but small clone, no more no less.
3° Gave chances to Lotro, but decided to cancel. Cant' play wow, can't play lotro.
4° Lotro's community has nothing special. Eve cty, DAOC EQ2 VG SWG cties are GREAT and MATURE.
So PLEASE STOP NOW trying to explain Lotro is full of 40/50 years old and VG/EQ/EVE/DAOC are games for kids and immature persons. I'm 40 years old, and IMO, Lotro has not mature content : as you' ll only have to BASH to BASH and BASH again , that's not I call a mature content.
LOL, you could get rich by selling the secret of how you happen to know every single player of LOTRO (or any other MMO by the way), and categorize them with such security.
Or does this mesmerizing self-security come with age? in that case I'll be all-knowing in a couple of years myself (can't wait
Sorry if this looks flaming, but that is exactly what your post is worth (for a response).
(BTW, you mention 2 types of "subs", and then list 3 types of "subs"in 4 (??) points )
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
After reading Ugarit's comments I have an urge to go to EVE/DAOC/EQ/EQII/VG/SWG sites and bash them there. Unlike Ugarit here I am not in a habit of visiting forums and commenting on games I don't play.
I would just liek to point out that the games he mentioned are 3/4 dead, with exception of EVE. EQ/EQII/VG had the same root and it is no secret that VG was to be LOTRO killer. My guess is that is where venom comes from, if there was no LOTRO people MIGHT play EQ & VG. Most likely not since both games have serious issues but it is easier to blame an outsider than to accept internal failings.
DAOC, SWG and EVE are different type of games and to be honest I respect DAOC. SWG is semi dead for awhile (thanks to NGE) and what is left shows its age. EVE is sandbox gankatron that, in my opinion, owes majority of its success to the fact SF MMO market is woefully slim so you either play EVE or nothing at all. I don't plan to discuss my view of EVE as it is a personal opinion based on trying the game.
After reading Ugarit's comments I have an urge to go to EVE/DAOC/EQ/EQII/VG/SWG sites and bash them there. Unlike Ugarit here I am not in a habit of visiting forums and commenting on games I don't play.
I would just liek to point out that the games he mentioned are 3/4 dead, with exception of EVE. EQ/EQII/VG had the same root and it is no secret that VG was to be LOTRO killer. My guess is that is where venom comes from, if there was no LOTRO people MIGHT play EQ & VG. Most likely not since both games have serious issues but it is easier to blame an outsider than to accept internal failings.
DAOC, SWG and EVE are different type of games and to be honest I respect DAOC. SWG is semi dead for awhile (thanks to NGE) and what is left shows its age. EVE is sandbox gankatron that, in my opinion, owes majority of its success to the fact SF MMO market is woefully slim so you either play EVE or nothing at all. I don't plan to discuss my view of EVE as it is a personal opinion based on trying the game.
Well said Illyrian
I too get a kick out of trolls complaining that too many people are saying that LoTRo is a great game on a forum for discussion of LoTRo (but, we are only doing it because we are lifers? heh).
So, then I guess next year... when we are still here and LoTRo is doing better than ever with the MoM release... what will be the excuse that we like LoTRo then? We'll be past the monthly return on investment... so, I wonder what the new excuse from the trolls for so many players liking LoTRo will be?
I don't understand why people can't accept the fact that quite a lot of players actually enjoy playing LoTRo for what it is. We like the environment, we like the story, we like the game-play, we like the community, we like the developers. What is so hard to believe about that. We aren't saying LoTRo is perfect, we aren't saying that LoTRo is for everyone.
We are saying that we enjoy playing it. Yup... that was a period at the end there.
Edit: Just thought I would share an example of a great MMO development team. Below is a link to the official boards. They admit they made an error, they are doing a fix for that error that favors the players. For those that want the summary version.
When Book 12 came out, new armor sets were included. Some of the quests that these armor sets were acquired from were put onto quests that were available pre-book 12 (that was the mistake part), so if you'd completed that quest already, that armor drop would not be available to you; so there was no way to complete the set. With Book 13 that will be fixed, per requests from the community to do so.
Just another example of how a dev. team and it's player community should work. We let them know of problems, they investigate, then fix said problems. All in a relatively short amount of time.
Comments
umm you guys completely miss the point (probably deliberately but oh well...)
First of all, if you read my initial reply carefully again you will see that i didnt even critisise LOTRO. LOTRO is a good game ok? The difference is that its a different concept - its interactive story telling which seems very popular since so many enjoy consuming a story they have no influence on and already know the outcome.
I find this new concept quite intresting and entertaining in a certain way - and will of course look into lotro from time to time just out of curiosity how it developes.
The examples i gave where made for different intention in everquest yes - they where to avoid mass farming of the items dropping from nagafen and other bosses. But they had the intresting side effect that guilds had to communicate and check certain things in tne world, spy alts where placed all over the world to always have a good knowledge what is going on in norrath AT THE GIVEN TIME. LOTRO has no given time at all - all it has is story consuming carbon copies of core class templates. Enough people at the right step: Woot! lets unlock the next 20 seconds of the cartoon movie story.
What is amusing is that you guys keep defending lotro as a "next generation mmoRPG" which it is clearly not. Maybe i am picking beans here when i say - yes its a "next generation MMO" but thats just how i am. I respect everyone who has fun in LOTRO - i had fun too for a while because the atmosphere IS nice at start (only disturbed by stupid and ugly animations but else: perfect).
Yes live and let live, for me LOTRO is not to play, i will look once in a while but at the moment i have no motivation, because watching a cartoon movie is not why i play games. But now its easter holiday and i hope you all have fun in middle earth spring "event" thingy.
Hope that cleared some things up
Bursche
I haven't read through all the posts but could it be that we are all tired of the MMO genre? The market is getting saturated with all of them. I, for one, have played SWG, MxO, DAoC, Pirates, WOW and countless more that I cannot remember right now. Unfortunately, all MMO's are similar in design, they all have levels and/or skills to learn, quests to do to level up. Same idea, different engine ;P. Even the new ones coming, like Warhammer Online or even Age of Conan, although they sound exciting at first, wil eventually become boring after a while.
I feel that most of us play MMO's just to get to the final level. We want to reach the end game as quickly as we can. It's unfortunate. I think this site should be called MMOG; leave the RP out since a lot of players don't do it anyways ;P
However, maybe including roleplay in game would spice it up a bit? Once, I decided to craft good armor for low levels, spammed it in the low level area for someone that wanted it and decided to spend some time questing with that person. Although I did not gain experience, I had fun
Another time, I launched a music contest in game. That was awesome. Around 20/30 people showed up. It was a blast.
I think we , as players of MMO's, need to create our own fun. It's unfair to expect the developers to do it all for us.
I agree with the poster above me
MMORPG's have really became boring lately. For me, this happened when I hit the maximum level in WoW. After that I haven't played anything for one year. LOTRO is like a copy of WoW, it has nothing new and it was boring.
Any game can be good if you just have friends to play it with. Once I played one 2D 16bit oldschool mmorpg (Dransik) for three years because I had friends playing it too, and the community was awesome. There were couple of guilds, and they really had wars and alliances with each other. PK guilds sometimes cheated some newbies to follow them to some exciting place and then ambushed the poor player with the whole guild. It was really awesome, even though the game was only 1.5 megabytes in size. It also had only a few quests, but it's still the best mmorp g I've ever played.
The communities of these new games is so big, that people don't really know each other. That's why I prefer less-known games with a small but intense communities.
Lotro never hooked me either, it has almost no learning curve. Nothing to uncover or find out - its all so obvious in the Turbine middle earth for my taste You expressed that better: it is boring.
happy easter!
LOTRO looks like a great game with beautifully rendered artwork, but I haven't tried it because I can't see how it can be set in the middle of the book, it just doesn't make sense to me. I know I am probably being too fussy, but having read most of the posts, I think many of the issues other people have stem from the same basic paradox.
In the books, Middle-Earth is a fairly small closed world where people are easily recognised. There aren't many powerful warriors or mages & the central characters in the book are not that even that powerful in MMO terms. Even my 'Fae Wizard' in EQ2 is possibly more powerful than Gandalf, but I digress.
How can the fate of all Middle-Earth really be dependant on a small party of hobbits when there are scores of 'Uber Raiding Guilds' ? If players occasionally get a chance to meet the central characters from the book, how can Gandalf, Aragorn & Frodo fail to notice that more competent help is readily at hand?
Moving on to the other side of the coin, in most MMOs player rarely get to influence the world but in LOTRO it is ruled out from the start by definition. Players want to get a chance to have more meaningful quests & battles, but how can they when that would surely alter the course of events? If players can't do anything that disrupts the plot of the book, I assume that must be why there are so many random kill quests.
Personally I think it would be more interesting if LOTRO established itself as a parallel universe & branched off from the main plot of the book, but I assume the 'Tolkien Family' have already ruled that out. Maybe not though, since they allowed Peter Jackson to take quite a few liberties with the films when it came to 'Legolas Fan Service' & 'Action Sequences' like the 'Gandalf Mount Doom Molten Lava Rescue' .
I still think it looks like a great game, but at least for me that is why it doesn't appeal.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Take the Hecatomb? TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
I have wished several times to be able to pinpoint exactly what the problem is, to be able to convey that to the developers, but all I can say is: Really good work. I am impressed. I don't like it.
Sound like Andy
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
Lotro never hooked me either, it has almost no learning curve. Nothing to uncover or find out - its all so obvious in the Turbine middle earth for my taste You expressed that better: it is boring.
happy easter!
Hmm... i'm going to disagree on the "Nothing to uncover" part.Why is Sara Oakheart always showing up in the middle of trouble?
What is she doing in Fornost?
What is the deal with the Nazgul "imposters" in the Shire?
What connection does the brigand forces around Bree have with the orcs and Saruman?
Why are some Earth-kin friendly and others attack you?
Why did the Giants break their alliance with the Dwarfs and Elves?
Why are some dwarfs evil?
Don't have much time today... so I'll have to stop there... but suffice to say. I could post quite a list of "unknown" elements that unless you played through them... you'd not know the answer to.
Lotro never hooked me either, it has almost no learning curve. Nothing to uncover or find out - its all so obvious in the Turbine middle earth for my taste You expressed that better: it is boring.
happy easter!
Hmm... i'm going to disagree on the "Nothing to uncover" part.Why is Sara Oakheart always showing up in the middle of trouble?
What is she doing in Fornost?
What is the deal with the Nazgul "imposters" in the Shire?
What connection does the brigand forces around Bree have with the orcs and Saruman?
Why are some Earth-kin friendly and others attack you?
Why did the Giants break their alliance with the Dwarfs and Elves?
Why are some dwarfs evil?
Don't have much time today... so I'll have to stop there... but suffice to say. I could post quite a list of "unknown" elements that unless you played through them... you'd not know the answer to.
I was thinking about game mechanical aspects and the learning curve to travel and play your avatar the most powerful and / or useful way for yourself and / or your fellowship.But now that you mention it yes, the story elements are boring too.
cya
I think we can all agree that if you analyze any MMO you'll find gaps, flaws, bugs, and inconsistancies galore. Making giant worlds on a budget and deadline means corners will be cut. Sometimes they won't be immediatly obvious but every little shortcut will in time become visable as players run by the same locations over and over again during their years of play.
Initally I believe the posts to this thread were trying to explain what it was about the game that didn't appeal to them, or turned them off to the game. I tried myself to articulate why I couldn't get engrossed in the game, and of course there are those stalwart defenders who will take every opertunity to tout their favorite game of the moment. It happens in every game forum.
But reading over this thread I feel the topic has wandered into looking for flaws to justify why you didn't like the game. But it boils down to this, no game will be all things to all people. Even WoW with it's mass appeal dosn't appeal to everyone. A good majority of people yes, and for that they are a smashing success and will be remembered in the annals of history as one of the milestones.
Either by getting bored, not finding the same level of immursion as a childhood adventure, or craving something a bit less high fantasy, there will always be reasons some people are not turned on by one game or another. I believe we can all agree that some folks just don't like chocolate ice cream no matter how much the next person tries to convince them chocolate is the greatest flavor ever.
Arioc Murkwood
Environment Artist
Sad but true.
One thing is for sure LOTRO has definitely worst map system ive seen in sub MMO games. Why did they do such a horrible maps i beyond me. Sometimes its almost impossible to recognize location on the map and location you are actually on. There is no way i can put my own pointers on the map etc
One more thing i have a problem with is that finding quest location takes 30% of time, walking to the quest 60% of time and actually doing the quest is 10% or less.
It true, graphics looks great but models and animations are horrible. Looks like they didn't hear for motion capturing in Turbine.
Actually from what I have seen thus far the maps are in correspondence to Tolkien's original maps and writings on the subject. Thus for those of us that follow Tolkien's theme, as originally intended, the maps are part of the immersion process.
Sometimes polish and tradition don't mix.
If nothing else, I've tried to stay consistent on that point. No MMO will ever appeal to all players... LoTRo is no exception.
It offers a nice community for those that like to have fun in Turbine's vision of Tolkien's universe.
Lotro never hooked me either, it has almost no learning curve. Nothing to uncover or find out - its all so obvious in the Turbine middle earth for my taste You expressed that better: it is boring.
happy easter!
Hmm... i'm going to disagree on the "Nothing to uncover" part.Why is Sara Oakheart always showing up in the middle of trouble?
What is she doing in Fornost?
What is the deal with the Nazgul "imposters" in the Shire?
What connection does the brigand forces around Bree have with the orcs and Saruman?
Why are some Earth-kin friendly and others attack you?
Why did the Giants break their alliance with the Dwarfs and Elves?
Why are some dwarfs evil?
Don't have much time today... so I'll have to stop there... but suffice to say. I could post quite a list of "unknown" elements that unless you played through them... you'd not know the answer to.
I was thinking about game mechanical aspects and the learning curve to travel and play your avatar the most powerful and / or useful way for yourself and / or your fellowship.But now that you mention it yes, the story elements are boring too.
cya
Well, glad I could help you articulate your point. Your welcome. I still happen to disagree though.
Reading this thread got me curious about the LoTR, so I downloaded the trial to see for myself...
I now see what everyone is talking about when they say that something is missing. The game itself is solid. But I agree with alot of you. Something is missing. But to me, its obvious....
Its Bland. There is nothing Vibrant about it. Nothing to me that set it apart.
The quests (or atleast the ones I did during my trial) were very cookie cutter. Same ol same ol you see in every other MMO. Very well written and thought out. But basicly just go kill blah blah blah, or go collect blah blah blah. Been done to death in other mmo's
The character customization was good. But nothing spectacular like CoH/CoV. Or SWG.
The animations were also very basic and unimpressive. Combat animations seemed kind of basic and clunky to me. Even the emotes were very 'Meh'.
The landscape is very nice. Very pretty. But I felt more like I was 'Looking' at it, instead of feeling like I was apart of it. It remided me of a painting you would see hanging at your grandmothers house. Like I was playing in someones paint by numbers.
The User Interface is good. Easy to use, and easy to learn. Mostly because its just like all the other User Interfaces out there.
I admit that I only played the trial, and that I didnt truely expierence the game the way it should have been. But I did feel like the game was definately good, but like alot of you it just didnt keep me. But to me it was obvious. There is simply nothing about this game that is innovative. Nothing setting it apart at its most basic levels.
When I play LoTR, I feel like Im playing every other mmo Ive played before. Its as if Ive already been playing this game for several years.... and its boring now. Its still a great game. But Ive already done this... alot... Moving on..
Thank you for your time..
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Oh solareus, you edited away the bulk of your last reply.
When I read your first version, I keep thinking, are you part of the LOTRo development or support team?
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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I have no idea what your talking about..
It is great game though, every single one of the people who have posted in this thread have admitted, "its a great game"
Isn't that wonderful !
I fully agree with you, LOTRo is lovely, a most polished game. No flaws I can put my finger at.I have left LOTRo, maybe its my own fault, I left MMOs since LOTRo. I still have the feeling that something is missing in the game, something that captures players and enslave them to addiction. That magical element is missing.
I will come back to Moria, Isengard, Mordor and beyond. If they open the map to the special retreat of the Elves, I will follow. Since I am a lifetimer, I can afford to wait and return. I am curious to see how they paint moria, and the new zones, but somehow I lack the incentive to log on everyday just to play the same old zones. That is odd, given my previous addictions from EQ to DAoC/CoX and beyond. Even EQ2 kept me online for a year. LOTRo, with its stunning professional touch, cannot kept me online longer. That is what baffles me.
I have no idea what your talking about..
It is great game though, every single one of the people who have posted in this thread have admitted, "its a great game"
Isn't that wonderful !
I fully agree with you, LOTRo is lovely, a most polished game. No flaws I can put my finger at.I have left LOTRo, maybe its my own fault, I left MMOs since LOTRo. I still have the feeling that something is missing in the game, something that captures players and enslave them to addiction. That magical element is missing.
I will come back to Moria, Isengard, Mordor and beyond. If they open the map to the special retreat of the Elves, I will follow. Since I am a lifetimer, I can afford to wait and return. I am curious to see how they paint moria, and the new zones, but somehow I lack the incentive to log on everyday just to play the same old zones. That is odd, given my previous addictions from EQ to DAoC/CoX and beyond. Even EQ2 kept me online for a year. LOTRo, with its stunning professional touch, cannot kept me online longer. That is what baffles me.
I think it's just a case of one mans trash is another's treasure, and all that. I wouldn't think it out too hard. Just play something else for a while, an bop back in and check things out when book 13 luanches, or when Moria comes down the pipe.
Me personally, the reason I like the game so much is that I've been at the cap for months now, and I'm still having fun. In most MMOs I hit the cap and get bored out my skull within a month. After that it's just a matter of time until my sheer apathy for the game wins out over the social obligations I feel to the folks I've met. The sole exception was DAoC. I actually enjoyed that endgame for a good while.
The thing to me is that most MMOs don't have anythiong to do for an employed human that needs to sleep. Raids are among the worst culprits here. With my "once per week at most" potential raiding schedule, I have no real hope of seeing the majority of any MMO with a deep linear raiding endgame. In LoTRO, the raids aren't a series of doors you go through one at a time. Instead it's a big circular room, and you go through whatever door you feel like. Sure, each passage dead ends, but at least you get to stick your head in an see all the rooms. I like that.
And if you don't feel like raiding, you can always craft, do book quests, or PvP. You end up with gear that's about the same. I don't like other MMOs where I have all these valid routes of advancement all the way to the cap, and then suddenly I get stuck.
Several big name MMOs when you hit the cap basically say:
"OH I'm sorry, did you enjoy crafting and doing solo/ small party content? Well screw you. Join a big raiding guild or quit, we really don't care. Thants for your 4 months of subs though...ahahaha!"
F-ck that.
Of course I also find the game itself completely charming. The "feel" of LoTRO really appeals to me. I like the art direction. I like the design of the classes (well most of them). I like the trait system. I like the crafting system. I like the housing system. I like the title system. And the storytelling and presentation are seond to none. The sheer depth of the lore that they have to draw has apparantly been fertile ground for the designers. And if you notice, all these things are just strait up personal preference.
If you prefer something different, well the game isn't going to hold your interest as long. If so, no biggie. Find something you like better.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Thank Yeebo, very polite reply. Its the community of LOTRo that sparkles, everyone so friendly and tolerant.
I do like LOTRo, the lore, the story. I have maxed level, maxed crafting, 5 of them. Yes I did put in my time, and I have finished Helegrod, many runs, with 3 of my 5. I agree that the game is very casual friendly, and the community best among all the games I ever tried.
Maybe its me, I somehow lost the zeal to log onto any games. LOTRo is the last game I played. No more games since, not even the closed betas I got into. I will definitely return to LOTRo when Moria and more zones are opened. See you there.
Let's hope Turbine does not slow down with upcoming content, so you can happily jump back to the game to discover new areas, quests, game aspects (fishing yeeeah
, and join us casuals for a little more - again and again 
Till then - see ya'
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
This discussion is boring we have we same since the relase.
Now Lotro has 2 types of subs
1° new subs discovering the shire and old forest, until they'll reach lvl 35, they 'll think Lotro is a great game. They payed 19$ for a game + 1 month, no doubt, they'll have fun 1 month (maybe 2/3)
2° lifetime subs: they CANT say Lotro isn't MEO. They CANT. As they payed LTS = 16 months of subs on 1 payment
they MUST stay on Lotro till they reach 16th month... Tha'ts the reality. So they refuse to say and admit HERE Lotro is only a polished but small clone, no more no less.
3° Gave chances to Lotro, but decided to cancel. Cant' play wow, can't play lotro.
4° Lotro's community has nothing special. Eve cty, DAOC EQ2 VG SWG cties are GREAT and MATURE.
So PLEASE STOP NOW trying to explain Lotro is full of 40/50 years old and VG/EQ/EVE/DAOC are games for kids and immature persons. I'm 40 years old, and IMO, Lotro has not mature content : as you' ll only have to BASH to BASH and BASH again , that's not I call a mature content.
This discussion is boring we have we same since the relase.
Now Lotro has 2 types of subs
1° new subs discovering the shire and old forest, until they'll reach lvl 35, they 'll think Lotro is a great game. They payed 19$ for a game + 1 month, no doubt, they'll have fun 1 month (maybe 2/3)
2° lifetime subs: they CANT say Lotro isn't MEO. They CANT. As they payed LTS = 16 months of subs on 1 payment
they MUST stay on Lotro till they reach 16th month... Tha'ts the reality. So they refuse to say and admit HERE Lotro is only a polished but small clone, no more no less.
3° Gave chances to Lotro, but decided to cancel. Cant' play wow, can't play lotro.
4° Lotro's community has nothing special. Eve cty, DAOC EQ2 VG SWG cties are GREAT and MATURE.
So PLEASE STOP NOW trying to explain Lotro is full of 40/50 years old and VG/EQ/EVE/DAOC are games for kids and immature persons. I'm 40 years old, and IMO, Lotro has not mature content : as you' ll only have to BASH to BASH and BASH again , that's not I call a mature content.
LOL, you could get rich by selling the secret of how you happen to know every single player of LOTRO (or any other MMO by the way), and categorize them with such security.
in that case I'll be all-knowing in a couple of years myself (can't wait 
Or does this mesmerizing self-security come with age?
Sorry if this looks flaming, but that is exactly what your post is worth (for a response).
(BTW, you mention 2 types of "subs", and then list 3 types of "subs"in 4 (??) points
)
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
After reading Ugarit's comments I have an urge to go to EVE/DAOC/EQ/EQII/VG/SWG sites and bash them there. Unlike Ugarit here I am not in a habit of visiting forums and commenting on games I don't play.
I would just liek to point out that the games he mentioned are 3/4 dead, with exception of EVE. EQ/EQII/VG had the same root and it is no secret that VG was to be LOTRO killer. My guess is that is where venom comes from, if there was no LOTRO people MIGHT play EQ & VG. Most likely not since both games have serious issues but it is easier to blame an outsider than to accept internal failings.
DAOC, SWG and EVE are different type of games and to be honest I respect DAOC. SWG is semi dead for awhile (thanks to NGE) and what is left shows its age. EVE is sandbox gankatron that, in my opinion, owes majority of its success to the fact SF MMO market is woefully slim so you either play EVE or nothing at all. I don't plan to discuss my view of EVE as it is a personal opinion based on trying the game.
Well said Illyrian
I too get a kick out of trolls complaining that too many people are saying that LoTRo is a great game on a forum for discussion of LoTRo (but, we are only doing it because we are lifers? heh).
So, then I guess next year... when we are still here and LoTRo is doing better than ever with the MoM release... what will be the excuse that we like LoTRo then? We'll be past the monthly return on investment... so, I wonder what the new excuse from the trolls for so many players liking LoTRo will be?
I don't understand why people can't accept the fact that quite a lot of players actually enjoy playing LoTRo for what it is. We like the environment, we like the story, we like the game-play, we like the community, we like the developers. What is so hard to believe about that. We aren't saying LoTRo is perfect, we aren't saying that LoTRo is for everyone.
We are saying that we enjoy playing it. Yup... that was a period at the end there.
Edit: Just thought I would share an example of a great MMO development team. Below is a link to the official boards. They admit they made an error, they are doing a fix for that error that favors the players. For those that want the summary version.
When Book 12 came out, new armor sets were included. Some of the quests that these armor sets were acquired from were put onto quests that were available pre-book 12 (that was the mistake part), so if you'd completed that quest already, that armor drop would not be available to you; so there was no way to complete the set. With Book 13 that will be fixed, per requests from the community to do so.
Just another example of how a dev. team and it's player community should work. We let them know of problems, they investigate, then fix said problems. All in a relatively short amount of time.
forums.lotro.com/showthread.php