The day a level 1 can stand a fighting chance against a level 70-80 is the day I quit MMO's. There is no way in hell im gonna let a level 1 beat me who has put 3+ years into the game. Its called expierence and legacy.
It's also why level based games suck. Consider, your 3+ years wouldn't make you immune in WoW; any 3 week old powerlevelled level 70 would be able to spend a week or so grinding BGs and have a chance to kill you despite your 3+ years. A very good chance if he happens to be the class that yours is weakest against.
If you get into an MMO at launch your chance of creating a legacy in the online world is greater. You think in a fantasy world you dont have Gods/Immortals/Heroes? If I train for 3 years your damn right I better be able to kill just about any1 anytime I feel like. Not saying ganking is right, but in a dog eat dog world, sometimes It is fun to wreak havoc on the peasants.
What legacy do you think you're creating, really? .. you're just one player in a game of thousands (if not millions). Some rise in reputation or notoriety, but in the end everything you ever accomplish in an MMO will eventually be forgotten. No game I've ever played allows players to gain exponential power based purely on their time played.
we cannot do anything about it because pk is been a part of most MMORPG but the thing i dont like their is you can kill people inside the town... there should be a pk area where that is the only place the characters cnan pk each other..
This is your typical PvP event when you give PvP toddlers cheap PK scrolls to turn a city into a PK zone. First thing you'll notice is my little plant carrier isn't AFK. Second, he's working in the city and unloading to the warehouse. Third, he has no weapon (15lbs of weight a carrier and non PvP player in a city never needs). See PK scrolls in this game offers turns anyone into PvP targets. Not even newbie cities are immuned -- no 0.5 space here, it's PvP without any safety net. The PvP player, in his store bought anime clown suit and Phase 3 falchion skills, proceeded to kill not just my carrier -- everyone -- FROM BEHIND like the cowards they are!
Now read the typical commentary of such PvP brats, and why responsible games have to put them behind some fence like cattle, before they lose customers (Voyage Century lost my business immediately after this [over $450 worth they'll never see again])...
You know that this is party of the game mechanics and rules when you started playing--so why are you crying about it?
If there's a warning at a beach that there are sharks in the area--and you decide that you will go swimming anyway and get attacked, are you the type of person who then turns around and sues the city because they didn't somehow prevent you from swimming? Take responsibility to read and make decisions on your own. If such a low-key thing as this bothers you so much, you should not have subbed in the first place.
Taking responsibility for the situations that you voluntarily put yourself into is part of life. If a computer game is too harsh for you, I pity you in real life.
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
You know that this is party of the game mechanics and rules when you started playing--so why are you crying about it?
Ask yourself why are you on this thread to whine, yourself. The thread title clearly shows what the subject about!
Originally posted by 0over0
If there's a warning at a beach that there are sharks in the area
Look at the comic book pictures above. Do you see something? Do you see it's a city? Did you know there's only 2 places to plant a lot of crops in that game? The first place is newbie town, and it's designed for the first time players. I'm a level 103 of 120 Planter, and I get orders of 5000+ plants at a time per player (which you can see in the top pic too).
Now every leveled and large order planter plants in that city because they need the room. Planters keep to themselves, because it's the most tedious job in the game (why I took it, as I love challenges), that actually requires being at the keyboard for hours planting and harvesting and carting back their plants/crops. Pay is good because it's not a AFK job.
Only place in the whole damn game to plant at scale, and you get a 15 year-old city boss, who decides to make the city a PK zone. I played the game for months, I earned my stripes, only to have a PvP idiot to ruin my hours in the field.
That was my plant carrier. If I was in the city, they would've gotten those crops that took HOURS TO PLANT.
You bet your damn house I quit the game after that BS. I'm NOT wasting my life for creepzoids who have zero honor, let alone sense (because if Planters don't plant fighters won't have their armor that needs the cloth that I produce, let alone potions those 5000 coffee plants were for).
Go shoot yourself ownself in the foot, and not only let your guild down, yourself when some PKer takes your epics, and you're but left with your underwear (as guess what? Your tanking guild has zero planters, as they're too damn busy PKing)!
Unat, you just describe why a game which force PK/PvP on all servers would never do better than Lineage games. *comfort*, but I fear I have no idea of your problematic here.
As I would NEVER play on a game which force me to PvP for ANY reward I might want, in PvE.
I miss half the games? NP, I miss the half I wouldn't enjoy anyway.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
The day a level 1 can stand a fighting chance against a level 70-80 is the day I quit MMO's.
Then quit. I'm a level 103 of 120 Planter in that game, and my business helps every guild, to make their armor to the potions they need TOO fight better.
What frustrates me the most is guilds like that who destroy not only the economy, they help destroy their own guild and their alliances. All because of pure 15 year-old MEMEME selfishness.
They lost a high level planter, one of the few who can even plant the 110+ level textiles/crops needed for the epic armor and potions, that takes months to level even with double XP scrolls. One of only a handful on that server who'd plant and sell thousands. To replace me in that game, they had to stop fighting and do my job, and level for months themselves.
Now tell me, are you willing to trade places of 6hrs of non-stop manual planting to get what you need?
I thought not.
Besides your "tips" had zero bearing in this situation anyway.
The only thing I can say is this: PVP has yet to be properly setup in any MMO thus far. What I mean by that is the given situations where PVP follows in other genres and titles tend to be due to mechanisms they setup for it. Whether it's an RTS or an FPS, these sorts of games work well under PVP, and pretty much make it fun as the majority of cases the AI in such games can only go so far as to provide challenge beyond simply buffing the bots with insane stats/ratings. In any case, for MMOs PVP is something far more volatile in its nature. First, you have people taking on other people in such a manner that is indiscriminant. Death simply comes too often, but more so in cases where it makes little sense (like just sitting in the middle of a crowd in town). Second, it's often one sided where the one who gets the first hit wins (always). With these two factors as they are with regard to PVP in MMOs it's little wonder why folks hate PVP in MMOs yet love it in other games (like TF2, COD4, SC, CnC3, DoW, and etc). But again, I'm emphasizing the fact it's a matter of proper implementation and not one of some magical genre barrier (as it is often espoused). Once developers get a grasp of the factors that makes PVP in other titles fun, they may be on the road to making it fun in MMOs too (Maybe...). -- Brede
except UO until they ruined it
pvp is pointless in lvl based games except @ endgame.. and still its mostly a timesink
Imagine you are playing chess. Imagine your opponent makes a bad move. Would you not take advantage of it? Would you not use it to win the game even if your opponent did not know that it was a bad move? Why is it so hard to imagine that a MMO is nothing but a big game of chess? Thats the way PvPers look at a game.
If it is possible to turn a town into a pvp zone then why are you playing in a way that makes it easy to kill you from behind? You do not want to compete with other players? Then why are you playing a game that allows PvP?
Really, get over it. Do you whine every time when someone wins against you in a card game? Or at soccer or any other sport. No? Then why are you whining about it in a computer game?
--- Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Unat, you just describe why a game which force PK/PvP on all servers would never do better than Lineage games. *comfort*, but I fear I have no idea of your problematic here.
As I would NEVER play on a game which force me to PvP for ANY reward I might want, in PvE.
I miss half the games? NP, I miss the half I wouldn't enjoy anyway.
The problem is time. Planting is the worst time sink in the game, as each plant that is planted takes 20 minutes to harvest. So I lay a field with 150 plants (one by one). Depending on level (higher the level more plants you can harvest, but you will get some that produce nothing even in the highest levels), each 20+ minute per plant planting session, I'll get around 120 plants (and that's a very good ratio since I'm a level 103 planter). So to get thousands of plants, it's hours in the fields, planting and harvesting each plant.
What they don't tell you in the game (and on the forums), is when you phase 2 ANY skill that requires using a weapon, when you die you now can drop items. They'll tell you it only happens if you phase 2 seabattle and barehand, but my ALT toon showed what happens if you leveled a falchion (a saber) past level 31 -- losing a 15pt item mall double XP scroll (which costs around 90 cents of RL money).
They don't tell you the rules, because that game can't even speak English well enough to do so.
My main, a Planter and crafter, isn't phase 2 in seabattle and barehand as he's not a fighter, but a planter. But he is phase 2 in the falchion so he can go out and gather leather, hides and other mats needed to craft -- all in PvP zones but he can't be touched as he's not a fighter.
If he was there at the warehouse when this PK zone was in effect and was killed (and he would, because the cowardly clown was level 99+ fighter with his epic sword shows), he would've lost around 600 plants he had on him.
That would've been a waste of about RL 3hrs of my life for the punks fun.
Now can you see how and why I quit?
Not only are the rules aren't said and you find out only when you phase 2 them (and I'm not paying $5.88 to have hours revoked of leveling the falchion to get them back to level 1); you can waste your time and fortune even when in supposely "safe" cities -- they can't PvP players who don't level SB and BH normally, unless a city boss uses a PK scroll.
The PK scroll breaks even the rules of the game, as non-fighters can even targeted, even when they don't persue the PvP path.
This game isn't a chess match. In chess I could play easily, because each player has equal chances to win, and each has to follow the same rules.
The game in question breaks it's own rules (non-PvP players can't be touched as they haven't leveled Seabattle and Barehand -- you can't level your ship too high or use high level noble weapons/armor in the bargain. That's the price for not leveling, and a price non-fighters deal with to do their job).
All bets are off when city PK scrolls are abused.
If you don't understand the rules of VCO, please don't comment, as you're just whining on things that's not applicable.
Imagine you are playing chess. Imagine your opponent makes a bad move. Would you not take advantage of it? Would you not use it to win the game even if your opponent did not know that it was a bad move? Why is it so hard to imagine that a MMO is nothing but a big game of chess? Thats the way PvPers look at a game. If it is possible to turn a town into a pvp zone then why are you playing in a way that makes it easy to kill you from behind? You do not want to compete with other players? Then why are you playing a game that allows PvP? Really, get over it. Do you whine every time when someone wins against you in a card game? Or at soccer or any other sport. No? Then why are you whining about it in a computer game?
Well, if I understand well...Unat is not playing the PvP game. There are ways to be safe from PvP in this game, at least this is what they officially say based on Unat post. The fact Unat suffered any drawback in PvE while isn't doing anything PvP-wise is what is aggravating. Unat believe the rules where X, Y and Z. While they are different, they are ways to break the rules and that wasn't advertised anywhere. If you have ways to break the rules, it should be advertised as such.
Let's just say that Unat is a LOT more forgiving and nice than me. I wouldn't play a game which reward PvPers better than anyone in PvE, but that is different, I am a coop player and I expect competition to be submissive to cooperation at every moment. Yet, Unat seems to be willing to put water in the wine. A bad choice IMO, as you clearly see what happen here. "He who accepts to sacrifice either Justice or Freedom for the sake of the other deserve neither." That would be my argument to convince someone like Unat to never indulge in any PvP game ever again.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Imagine you are playing chess. Imagine your opponent makes a bad move. Would you not take advantage of it? Would you not use it to win the game even if your opponent did not know that it was a bad move? Why is it so hard to imagine that a MMO is nothing but a big game of chess? Thats the way PvPers look at a game. If it is possible to turn a town into a pvp zone then why are you playing in a way that makes it easy to kill you from behind? You do not want to compete with other players? Then why are you playing a game that allows PvP? Really, get over it. Do you whine every time when someone wins against you in a card game? Or at soccer or any other sport. No? Then why are you whining about it in a computer game?
Well, if I understand well...Unat is not playing the PvP game. There are ways to be safe from PvP in this game, at least this is what they officially say based on Unat post. The fact Unat suffered any drawback in PvE while isn't doing anything PvP-wise is what is aggravating. Unat believe the rules where X, Y and Z. While they are different, they are ways to break the rules and that wasn't advertised anywhere. If you have ways to break the rules, it should be advertised as such.
Let's just say that Unat is a LOT more forgiving and nice than me. I wouldn't play a game which reward PvPers better than anyone in PvE, but that is different, I am a coop player and I expect competition to be submissive to cooperation at every moment. Yet, Unat seems to be willing to put water in the wine. A bad choice IMO, as you clearly see what happen here. "He who accepts to sacrifice either Justice or Freedom for the sake of the other deserve neither." That would be my argument to convince someone like Unat to never indulge in any PvP game ever again.
No community can expect to function in pure lawlessness. What would do you in real life if you were a target everytime you stepped out of your house to goto work? Probably move, or in this case unsub. Killing a citizen in broad day light should have some consequences and criminals should have to think twice before doing what they please. I'm a pvp'er, I love pvp, but the carebears have a point. There are 2 types of pvp'ers, those who like a challenge and take pleasure in their victories - sportsmen , and those who don't like any challenge and take pleasure in other peoples pain - griefers/criminals. Theres a difference. solution: police Since most games dont require you to build cities and all its infrastructure, its alraedy made when you sign up it should also be assumed that police would also already exist when you sign up. Otherwise how did that city or community ever come to being without some sort of protection right? Police should be in every mmo where pve and pvp butt heads. Its why Eve works.
as a hardcore PK i have to agree with you. i want to have some sort laws involved to prevent this instead of just polymorphing the player (WAR's plan turn you into a chicken) or just not having open pvp. i wanna kill inside of towns like i did in UO. i wanna loot players corpses. but i wanna have NPC's then h8 me and come after me, hunt me down have bounties on my head for doing it.
Let's just say that Unat is a LOT more forgiving and nice than me. I wouldn't play a game which reward PvPers better than anyone in PvE, but that is different, I am a coop player and I expect competition to be submissive to cooperation at every moment. Yet, Unat seems to be willing to put water in the wine. A bad choice IMO, as you clearly see what happen here. "He who accepts to sacrifice either Justice or Freedom for the sake of the other deserve neither." That would be my argument to convince someone like Unat to never indulge in any PvP game ever again.
I like VCO very much. Put RL money in the game, as I could do something I love in RL, gardening and crafting. The rules espoused by the game I lived with, as I wasn't playing a fighter.
When the game breaks it's own rules as a perk for PvP players over PvE players (city boss PK scrolls), for nothing, that was my final straw and I quit.
It has soured me of ALL PvP now, since I can't trust it in other games, especially from this experience where the rules aren't written and/or enforced.
In everything we do in life there's rules. It brings order to chaos. When the rules give one side more advantages, and breaks the rules of the game (I couldn't even defend myself, because to avoid PvP I couldn't level the very skills needed to do so) the game isn't a game anymore, it's pure anarchy.
VCO is losing more and more players as they shift to more an item mall game. It also loses more and more players who DO play by the rules, as they are broken on a whim, and wasting hours/days/months of your life isn't fun.
to prove that you are good at a game you need to survive. and to survive you need to fight or avoid. to survive means you are strong. so now you bitch because you died. proving that you are not strong
Let's just say that Unat is a LOT more forgiving and nice than me. I wouldn't play a game which reward PvPers better than anyone in PvE, but that is different, I am a coop player and I expect competition to be submissive to cooperation at every moment. Yet, Unat seems to be willing to put water in the wine. A bad choice IMO, as you clearly see what happen here. "He who accepts to sacrifice either Justice or Freedom for the sake of the other deserve neither." That would be my argument to convince someone like Unat to never indulge in any PvP game ever again.
I like VCO very much. Put RL money in the game, as I could do something I love in RL, gardening and crafting. The rules espoused by the game I lived with, as I wasn't playing a fighter.
When the game breaks it's own rules as a perk for PvP players over PvE players (city boss PK scrolls), for nothing, that was my final straw and I quit.
It has soured me of ALL PvP now, since I can't trust it in other games, especially from this experience where the rules aren't written and/or enforced.
In everything we do in life there's rules. It brings order to chaos. When the rules give one side more advantages, and breaks the rules of the game (I couldn't even defend myself, because to avoid PvP I couldn't level the very skills needed to do so) the game isn't a game anymore, it's pure anarchy.
VCO is losing more and more players as they shift to more an item mall game. It also loses more and more players who DO play by the rules, as they are broken on a whim, and wasting hours/days/months of your life isn't fun.
Ok if it is an item dropped by a boss in the game then it was made by the creators and is part of the game. they broke no rules at all by doing this. hell they played the game by the rules to the letter. so don't bitch cuz you died and lost and got your stuff stolen. if it was made part of the game it is a risk you take by playing the game.
PVP and Pk are fine by me. But the problem most games run into are 1) they are too restrictive in where and when you can kill people (this is is the griefer and exploiters fault not carebears) or 2) they arent restrictive but have next to no reprucussions for ones actions of killing people at random (and next to every game out there , Lineage 2 included has ways around the system to kill people with little to no reprucussions).
to prove that you are good at a game you need to survive. and to survive you need to fight or avoid. to survive means you are strong. so now you bitch because you died. proving that you are not strong
And that has zero to do with this thread.
When your sword or armor breaks, don't tell me you're not going to whine like a newborn baby. You'll be the first to the forum crying about it.
When you put time and energy and even money in a game, anyone would be irrate.
So take your own advice and apply it to yourself, not be yet another yapping sociopath.
Games are made to be played by many players with many ideas of gameplay. A game that existed solely on your ideas would've long been dead -- as variety IS the spice of life, and sociopathy brings little fun to games.
to prove that you are good at a game you need to survive. and to survive you need to fight or avoid. to survive means you are strong. so now you bitch because you died. proving that you are not strong
And that has zero to do with this thread.
When your sword or armor breaks, don't tell me you're not going to whine like a newborn baby. You'll be the first to the forum crying about it.
When you put time and energy and even money in a game, anyone would be irrate.
So take your own advice and apply it to yourself, not be yet another yapping sociopath.
Games are made to be played by many players with many ideas of gameplay. A game that existed solely on your ideas would've long been dead -- as variety IS the spice of life, and sociopathy brings little fun to games.
So they threw these PK scrolls in as some sort of update along the way? Thus changing the rules of the game?
PVP and Pk are fine by me. But the problem most games run into are 1) they are too restrictive in where and when you can kill people (this is is the griefer and exploiters fault not carebears) or 2) they arent restrictive but have next to no reprucussions for ones actions of killing people at random (and next to every game out there , Lineage 2 included has ways around the system to kill people with little to no reprucussions).
3) Limiting the abilities to defend yourself from PvP, and abeiting by the very game rules.
PvPing and PKing as a crafter in that game and you could not be a crafter. Which is why any mat collector isn't leveled as fighters. It's bad enough PvE content can bother you while trying to gather mats, PvP on top of it, creates chaos.
PVP and Pk are fine by me. But the problem most games run into are 1) they are too restrictive in where and when you can kill people (this is is the griefer and exploiters fault not carebears) or 2) they arent restrictive but have next to no reprucussions for ones actions of killing people at random (and next to every game out there , Lineage 2 included has ways around the system to kill people with little to no reprucussions).
3) Limiting the abilities to defend yourself from PvP, and abeiting by the very game rules.
PvPing and PKing as a crafter in that game and you could not be a crafter. Which is why any mat collector isn't leveled as fighters. It's bad enough PvE content can bother you while trying to gather mats, PvP on top of it, creates chaos.
Then they added PK scrolls....................
Yeah making a drastic game altering change such as that is rediculous.
Ok if it is an item dropped by a boss in the game then it was made by the creators and is part of the game. they broke no rules at all by doing this. hell they played the game by the rules to the letter. so don't bitch cuz you died and lost and got your stuff stolen. if it was made part of the game it is a risk you take by playing the game.
Devs CHANGING the rules is breaking the old rules. The old rules says that you cannot attack someone who doesn't level up the necessary skills.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
So they threw these PK scrolls in as some sort of update along the way? Thus changing the rules of the game?
It's a city guild owner's perk which has been abused at times (like used in newbie cities, especially Athens and Alexandria). Good city guilds who understand the dynamics of economies, and just plain keeping players in the game, don't use them as it will backfire later (as those mat collectors tend to be ALTs of who knows what in the game, especially rival guilds).
Not using them keeps peace, as the price of defeat is quite expensive -- in the tune of hundreds of millions of silver (now it will be in the billions).
Last year, when this newbie city abuse occurred, there were many debates about getting rid of them. But IGG, like always, doesn't listen to their own community and kept them.
Then they nerfed being a real PvP pirate (you know this IS a pirate game??), so the baddest pirates left the game enmasse. Those who gained any serious notoriety would have to spend something like 200+ RL logged in hours in prison to get out. The impact now, is these cowardly pirates seen above (PK scrolls level no evidence to be used to hire a bounty hunter to go after them, or raises their notoriety).
ADDED: To hire a bounty hunter in the game you must have murder evidence. It's dropped when you're PvPed. What they do to prevent getting the murder evidence in this game, is to fight in packs. Which means if you're targetted and not mat collecting or fighting with your more than 2 guild members (hard to accomplish since most playing in this game are ALTs), they can steal the evidence. So that way of retribution of an ad hoc police force is broken as well.
So IGG not only reneged on the rules of the game (non SB and BH leveled players are spared PvP) with PK scrolls, they even refused to change a serious game imbalance that players asked to be changed.
Killing those who do the work so fighters can fight, is worse than shooting the fighters in the foot -- it leaves little choice but for the fighters to do the job themselves, when the mat collectors quit. Why the players, even PvP types, asked for these PK scrolls to be banned -- they sure don't want to plant for hours!!
Ok if it is an item dropped by a boss in the game then it was made by the creators and is part of the game. they broke no rules at all by doing this. hell they played the game by the rules to the letter. so don't bitch cuz you died and lost and got your stuff stolen. if it was made part of the game it is a risk you take by playing the game.
1. It's not an item drop, but a perk that CITY GUILD OWNER can buy cheaply (and why and how it can be abused).
2. The rules are explicit: if you don't level Seabattle (for ship PvP) and Barehand (for land PvP) no PvP player can touch you.
Mat collectors chose this route because it's tedious and LONG to gather mats, with even PvE content nagging you -- especially packs of wolves and whatever crap. In London, where I sometimes plant, there's level 80 out of 120 Vikings. When some BH 35 or so player attempts to run away from them (finding out first hand they're not for a BH 35 player to kill, but a level 80 fighter's job), these attack on sight very high level NPCs can attack the mat collectors as they were lured there by a fleeing n00b. I have to use a item mall charm and first aide kits to survive and kill something WAY beyond my fighting level, despite having nearly 200 defense (which I have to have to collect mats in the first place!). So you see there's enough "be on your toes" in the game, to not need PvP on top of it, while you still trying to protect your crops from theft AND death that can lose v-e-r-y precious seeds! And guess where those seeds are located??????
3. PK scrolls violated the rules of #2, making it possible to kill non-PvP characters without penalty. It reneges the very game rules.
Comments
i want a character thats so overpowered he kills any1 lesser than him just by using an aura. how awesome would that be lol
we cannot do anything about it because pk is been a part of most MMORPG but the thing i dont like their is you can kill people inside the town... there should be a pk area where that is the only place the characters cnan pk each other..
If there's a warning at a beach that there are sharks in the area--and you decide that you will go swimming anyway and get attacked, are you the type of person who then turns around and sues the city because they didn't somehow prevent you from swimming? Take responsibility to read and make decisions on your own. If such a low-key thing as this bothers you so much, you should not have subbed in the first place.
Taking responsibility for the situations that you voluntarily put yourself into is part of life. If a computer game is too harsh for you, I pity you in real life.
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
Ask yourself why are you on this thread to whine, yourself. The thread title clearly shows what the subject about!
Look at the comic book pictures above. Do you see something? Do you see it's a city? Did you know there's only 2 places to plant a lot of crops in that game? The first place is newbie town, and it's designed for the first time players. I'm a level 103 of 120 Planter, and I get orders of 5000+ plants at a time per player (which you can see in the top pic too).
Now every leveled and large order planter plants in that city because they need the room. Planters keep to themselves, because it's the most tedious job in the game (why I took it, as I love challenges), that actually requires being at the keyboard for hours planting and harvesting and carting back their plants/crops. Pay is good because it's not a AFK job.
Only place in the whole damn game to plant at scale, and you get a 15 year-old city boss, who decides to make the city a PK zone. I played the game for months, I earned my stripes, only to have a PvP idiot to ruin my hours in the field.
That was my plant carrier. If I was in the city, they would've gotten those crops that took HOURS TO PLANT.
You bet your damn house I quit the game after that BS. I'm NOT wasting my life for creepzoids who have zero honor, let alone sense (because if Planters don't plant fighters won't have their armor that needs the cloth that I produce, let alone potions those 5000 coffee plants were for).
Go shoot yourself ownself in the foot, and not only let your guild down, yourself when some PKer takes your epics, and you're but left with your underwear (as guess what? Your tanking guild has zero planters, as they're too damn busy PKing)!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Unat, you just describe why a game which force PK/PvP on all servers would never do better than Lineage games. *comfort*, but I fear I have no idea of your problematic here.
As I would NEVER play on a game which force me to PvP for ANY reward I might want, in PvE.
I miss half the games? NP, I miss the half I wouldn't enjoy anyway.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Then quit. I'm a level 103 of 120 Planter in that game, and my business helps every guild, to make their armor to the potions they need TOO fight better.
What frustrates me the most is guilds like that who destroy not only the economy, they help destroy their own guild and their alliances. All because of pure 15 year-old MEMEME selfishness.
They lost a high level planter, one of the few who can even plant the 110+ level textiles/crops needed for the epic armor and potions, that takes months to level even with double XP scrolls. One of only a handful on that server who'd plant and sell thousands. To replace me in that game, they had to stop fighting and do my job, and level for months themselves.
Now tell me, are you willing to trade places of 6hrs of non-stop manual planting to get what you need?
I thought not.
Besides your "tips" had zero bearing in this situation anyway.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
except UO until they ruined it
pvp is pointless in lvl based games except @ endgame.. and still its mostly a timesink
Remember Old School Ultima Online
Imagine you are playing chess. Imagine your opponent makes a bad move. Would you not take advantage of it? Would you not use it to win the game even if your opponent did not know that it was a bad move? Why is it so hard to imagine that a MMO is nothing but a big game of chess? Thats the way PvPers look at a game.
If it is possible to turn a town into a pvp zone then why are you playing in a way that makes it easy to kill you from behind? You do not want to compete with other players? Then why are you playing a game that allows PvP?
Really, get over it. Do you whine every time when someone wins against you in a card game? Or at soccer or any other sport. No? Then why are you whining about it in a computer game?
---
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
The problem is time. Planting is the worst time sink in the game, as each plant that is planted takes 20 minutes to harvest. So I lay a field with 150 plants (one by one). Depending on level (higher the level more plants you can harvest, but you will get some that produce nothing even in the highest levels), each 20+ minute per plant planting session, I'll get around 120 plants (and that's a very good ratio since I'm a level 103 planter). So to get thousands of plants, it's hours in the fields, planting and harvesting each plant.
What they don't tell you in the game (and on the forums), is when you phase 2 ANY skill that requires using a weapon, when you die you now can drop items. They'll tell you it only happens if you phase 2 seabattle and barehand, but my ALT toon showed what happens if you leveled a falchion (a saber) past level 31 -- losing a 15pt item mall double XP scroll (which costs around 90 cents of RL money).
They don't tell you the rules, because that game can't even speak English well enough to do so.
My main, a Planter and crafter, isn't phase 2 in seabattle and barehand as he's not a fighter, but a planter. But he is phase 2 in the falchion so he can go out and gather leather, hides and other mats needed to craft -- all in PvP zones but he can't be touched as he's not a fighter.
If he was there at the warehouse when this PK zone was in effect and was killed (and he would, because the cowardly clown was level 99+ fighter with his epic sword shows), he would've lost around 600 plants he had on him.
That would've been a waste of about RL 3hrs of my life for the punks fun.
Now can you see how and why I quit?
Not only are the rules aren't said and you find out only when you phase 2 them (and I'm not paying $5.88 to have hours revoked of leveling the falchion to get them back to level 1); you can waste your time and fortune even when in supposely "safe" cities -- they can't PvP players who don't level SB and BH normally, unless a city boss uses a PK scroll.
The PK scroll breaks even the rules of the game, as non-fighters can even targeted, even when they don't persue the PvP path.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
This game isn't a chess match. In chess I could play easily, because each player has equal chances to win, and each has to follow the same rules.
The game in question breaks it's own rules (non-PvP players can't be touched as they haven't leveled Seabattle and Barehand -- you can't level your ship too high or use high level noble weapons/armor in the bargain. That's the price for not leveling, and a price non-fighters deal with to do their job).
All bets are off when city PK scrolls are abused.
If you don't understand the rules of VCO, please don't comment, as you're just whining on things that's not applicable.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Well, if I understand well...Unat is not playing the PvP game. There are ways to be safe from PvP in this game, at least this is what they officially say based on Unat post. The fact Unat suffered any drawback in PvE while isn't doing anything PvP-wise is what is aggravating. Unat believe the rules where X, Y and Z. While they are different, they are ways to break the rules and that wasn't advertised anywhere. If you have ways to break the rules, it should be advertised as such.
Let's just say that Unat is a LOT more forgiving and nice than me. I wouldn't play a game which reward PvPers better than anyone in PvE, but that is different, I am a coop player and I expect competition to be submissive to cooperation at every moment. Yet, Unat seems to be willing to put water in the wine. A bad choice IMO, as you clearly see what happen here. "He who accepts to sacrifice either Justice or Freedom for the sake of the other deserve neither." That would be my argument to convince someone like Unat to never indulge in any PvP game ever again.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Well, if I understand well...Unat is not playing the PvP game. There are ways to be safe from PvP in this game, at least this is what they officially say based on Unat post. The fact Unat suffered any drawback in PvE while isn't doing anything PvP-wise is what is aggravating. Unat believe the rules where X, Y and Z. While they are different, they are ways to break the rules and that wasn't advertised anywhere. If you have ways to break the rules, it should be advertised as such.
Let's just say that Unat is a LOT more forgiving and nice than me. I wouldn't play a game which reward PvPers better than anyone in PvE, but that is different, I am a coop player and I expect competition to be submissive to cooperation at every moment. Yet, Unat seems to be willing to put water in the wine. A bad choice IMO, as you clearly see what happen here. "He who accepts to sacrifice either Justice or Freedom for the sake of the other deserve neither." That would be my argument to convince someone like Unat to never indulge in any PvP game ever again.
well put
/rant
I find it fun!
Let Them HATE, so long as they FEAR
I like VCO very much. Put RL money in the game, as I could do something I love in RL, gardening and crafting. The rules espoused by the game I lived with, as I wasn't playing a fighter.
When the game breaks it's own rules as a perk for PvP players over PvE players (city boss PK scrolls), for nothing, that was my final straw and I quit.
It has soured me of ALL PvP now, since I can't trust it in other games, especially from this experience where the rules aren't written and/or enforced.
In everything we do in life there's rules. It brings order to chaos. When the rules give one side more advantages, and breaks the rules of the game (I couldn't even defend myself, because to avoid PvP I couldn't level the very skills needed to do so) the game isn't a game anymore, it's pure anarchy.
VCO is losing more and more players as they shift to more an item mall game. It also loses more and more players who DO play by the rules, as they are broken on a whim, and wasting hours/days/months of your life isn't fun.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
to prove that you are good at a game you need to survive. and to survive you need to fight or avoid. to survive means you are strong. so now you bitch because you died. proving that you are not strong
Let Them HATE, so long as they FEAR
I like VCO very much. Put RL money in the game, as I could do something I love in RL, gardening and crafting. The rules espoused by the game I lived with, as I wasn't playing a fighter.
When the game breaks it's own rules as a perk for PvP players over PvE players (city boss PK scrolls), for nothing, that was my final straw and I quit.
It has soured me of ALL PvP now, since I can't trust it in other games, especially from this experience where the rules aren't written and/or enforced.
In everything we do in life there's rules. It brings order to chaos. When the rules give one side more advantages, and breaks the rules of the game (I couldn't even defend myself, because to avoid PvP I couldn't level the very skills needed to do so) the game isn't a game anymore, it's pure anarchy.
VCO is losing more and more players as they shift to more an item mall game. It also loses more and more players who DO play by the rules, as they are broken on a whim, and wasting hours/days/months of your life isn't fun.
Ok if it is an item dropped by a boss in the game then it was made by the creators and is part of the game. they broke no rules at all by doing this. hell they played the game by the rules to the letter. so don't bitch cuz you died and lost and got your stuff stolen. if it was made part of the game it is a risk you take by playing the game.
Let Them HATE, so long as they FEAR
PVP and Pk are fine by me. But the problem most games run into are 1) they are too restrictive in where and when you can kill people (this is is the griefer and exploiters fault not carebears) or 2) they arent restrictive but have next to no reprucussions for ones actions of killing people at random (and next to every game out there , Lineage 2 included has ways around the system to kill people with little to no reprucussions).
And that has zero to do with this thread.
When your sword or armor breaks, don't tell me you're not going to whine like a newborn baby. You'll be the first to the forum crying about it.
When you put time and energy and even money in a game, anyone would be irrate.
So take your own advice and apply it to yourself, not be yet another yapping sociopath.
Games are made to be played by many players with many ideas of gameplay. A game that existed solely on your ideas would've long been dead -- as variety IS the spice of life, and sociopathy brings little fun to games.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
And that has zero to do with this thread.
When your sword or armor breaks, don't tell me you're not going to whine like a newborn baby. You'll be the first to the forum crying about it.
When you put time and energy and even money in a game, anyone would be irrate.
So take your own advice and apply it to yourself, not be yet another yapping sociopath.
Games are made to be played by many players with many ideas of gameplay. A game that existed solely on your ideas would've long been dead -- as variety IS the spice of life, and sociopathy brings little fun to games.
So they threw these PK scrolls in as some sort of update along the way? Thus changing the rules of the game?
3) Limiting the abilities to defend yourself from PvP, and abeiting by the very game rules.
PvPing and PKing as a crafter in that game and you could not be a crafter. Which is why any mat collector isn't leveled as fighters. It's bad enough PvE content can bother you while trying to gather mats, PvP on top of it, creates chaos.
Then they added PK scrolls....................
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
3) Limiting the abilities to defend yourself from PvP, and abeiting by the very game rules.
PvPing and PKing as a crafter in that game and you could not be a crafter. Which is why any mat collector isn't leveled as fighters. It's bad enough PvE content can bother you while trying to gather mats, PvP on top of it, creates chaos.
Then they added PK scrolls....................
Yeah making a drastic game altering change such as that is rediculous.
Devs CHANGING the rules is breaking the old rules. The old rules says that you cannot attack someone who doesn't level up the necessary skills.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
It's a city guild owner's perk which has been abused at times (like used in newbie cities, especially Athens and Alexandria). Good city guilds who understand the dynamics of economies, and just plain keeping players in the game, don't use them as it will backfire later (as those mat collectors tend to be ALTs of who knows what in the game, especially rival guilds).
Not using them keeps peace, as the price of defeat is quite expensive -- in the tune of hundreds of millions of silver (now it will be in the billions).
Last year, when this newbie city abuse occurred, there were many debates about getting rid of them. But IGG, like always, doesn't listen to their own community and kept them.
Then they nerfed being a real PvP pirate (you know this IS a pirate game??), so the baddest pirates left the game enmasse. Those who gained any serious notoriety would have to spend something like 200+ RL logged in hours in prison to get out. The impact now, is these cowardly pirates seen above (PK scrolls level no evidence to be used to hire a bounty hunter to go after them, or raises their notoriety).
ADDED: To hire a bounty hunter in the game you must have murder evidence. It's dropped when you're PvPed. What they do to prevent getting the murder evidence in this game, is to fight in packs. Which means if you're targetted and not mat collecting or fighting with your more than 2 guild members (hard to accomplish since most playing in this game are ALTs), they can steal the evidence. So that way of retribution of an ad hoc police force is broken as well.
So IGG not only reneged on the rules of the game (non SB and BH leveled players are spared PvP) with PK scrolls, they even refused to change a serious game imbalance that players asked to be changed.
Killing those who do the work so fighters can fight, is worse than shooting the fighters in the foot -- it leaves little choice but for the fighters to do the job themselves, when the mat collectors quit. Why the players, even PvP types, asked for these PK scrolls to be banned -- they sure don't want to plant for hours!!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
1. It's not an item drop, but a perk that CITY GUILD OWNER can buy cheaply (and why and how it can be abused).
2. The rules are explicit: if you don't level Seabattle (for ship PvP) and Barehand (for land PvP) no PvP player can touch you.
Mat collectors chose this route because it's tedious and LONG to gather mats, with even PvE content nagging you -- especially packs of wolves and whatever crap. In London, where I sometimes plant, there's level 80 out of 120 Vikings. When some BH 35 or so player attempts to run away from them (finding out first hand they're not for a BH 35 player to kill, but a level 80 fighter's job), these attack on sight very high level NPCs can attack the mat collectors as they were lured there by a fleeing n00b. I have to use a item mall charm and first aide kits to survive and kill something WAY beyond my fighting level, despite having nearly 200 defense (which I have to have to collect mats in the first place!). So you see there's enough "be on your toes" in the game, to not need PvP on top of it, while you still trying to protect your crops from theft AND death that can lose v-e-r-y precious seeds! And guess where those seeds are located??????
3. PK scrolls violated the rules of #2, making it possible to kill non-PvP characters without penalty. It reneges the very game rules.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.