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WoW is easy........how so???
VultureSkull
Member UncommonPosts: 1,774
I hear a lot of people say that WoW is easy and i don't full understand what they mean...
Do they mean that WoW is easy to learn?
In which case i would like to know which game is hard to learn?
Do they mean that it is easy to level up?
Again i would like to know about a game that is hard to level up.
Or do they simply mean that it is an accessible game and interface and in fact mean it as a compliment?
Comments
1)EVE
2)LINEAGE2
3)NO
WoW is very easy to pick up and play,within the 1st 5-6 levels you have passed the learning curve,Yes alot of games are easy but there are quite a few with harder learning curves.
Things like crafting are also very easy and take little thought unlike some MMo's like VG's crafting system that needs alot more thought.
Leveling in WoW has to be the easiest I have seen,you basically "follow the yellow brick road" go from quest hub to quest hub,If you die 20 times trying a quest*shrug* who cares,you are hardly crucified for dying in wow,You can be level 70 putiing the time in,in around 2-4 weeks.
None of this is a bad thing I guess and is what blizzard forseen and the numbers stand for themselves,so I guess the players like it this way.
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235780/page/8
Basicly you will learn everything about the game in less than 20 lvls,the gameplay is "hold my hand while I go to the toilet" style,it's realy easy to lvl up.The hardships of the game come directly from the players you will group with (mostly kids) who will ruin your group fast.
Yes, WOW is very easy to learn, excellent interface and this is not a bad thing as many would lead you to believe, especially if you are new to the genre.
Hard to learn, EVE is right up there at the top, but by no means the only one thats more of a challenge than WOW. To some WOW's ease of play is a virtue, to others its a huge fault.
Yes, WOW is very easy to level up, certainly one of the easiest I ever played.
On the opposite side of the spectrum is Lineage 2 or FFXI, but they are not necessarily difficult, you just have to have the patience of Job to put up with the horrific grinds they involve. You could play Lineage 2 for 2 years and not have a max level, properly geared character. (unless you are willing to put in a ton of time or risk botting)
Yes, WOW's accessibility and UI are certainly its strong point, just some of us like more of a challenge in our games than it offers. To take another example, I played LoTRO for 2 months, and I knew at that point everything I'd every need to know about the gameplay. All that was left was the execution, and that was a terribly boring prospect to me. Contrast that with EVE after 10 months, I am astounded that I still know less than a third (if I'm lucky) of the things that are available and I'll one day get around to learning.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
With all these fantasy games by lvl 20 you will have known all there is to know, EQ2, LOTR, etc etc.
Easy to lvl up means what? As the Quests in all these games are the same, ie go here kill 20 bears, or go to this guy and give him this and collect this and return it to me etc.
Or does it mean that there you get a lot of experience for doing very little?
What exactly do you mean "hold my hand while i go to the toilet" the gameplay style is exactly the same as all other MMO fantasy games that use auto attack>?
I've played plenty of MMOs, there is no hard learning curve to them, just tedious mechanics or time sinks put in place of difficulty.
No crafting in any game I've played has been difficult or thoughtful. Once again, tedious mechanics or time sinks are put in place of actual difficulty.
Once again, people think that investing more time than is healthy in order to progress a character, somehow increases the difficulty or complexity of a game, complete hogwash. Still requires effort to progress a character in WoW, despite the reduction in overall time required to advance. It's called streamlining, not simplifying.
That yellow brick road has many forks in it. You may not like quests that give you directions to new areas, but there is certainly not one single path at any given level beyond your race's starting area. Nothing says you have to do quest progression, you can still level quite nicely by just hunting or doing instances.
Hardcores love the tedious, time wasting mechanics of old school MMOs, thank gawd most of the rest of us are sane and won't put up with that kind of crap anymore. Sadly, developers still pay too much attention to hardcore whiners on bulletin boards along with too many of them being hardcore themselves.
Diversity is a good thing, but it's becoming really irritating to see old schoolers coming into casual games and whining to developers to make the game more hardcore and make sure that the hardcore elements get rewarded better than any other play style. They've done this in WoW (original concept was little to no raiding with status rewards, not best rewards) and are really ramping it up in LOTRO (really starting to focus on adding raid content and yet again giving them the best rewards).
All of this crap about WoW being so easy is exactly that, crap. There is challenge in the game and it's not just from raiding. People die all the time, solo and in groups, that indicates challenge to me. Forced grouping does not indicate challenge. Death penalties do not add challenge.
I'll be a very happy camper when a development team with real backbone, makes a casual game that caters only to casuals and actually makes casual playing the most rewarding and ignores all the hardcore whining.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Eve is not necessaily harder just has more depth and content imho.
Dont do crafting but i imagine that in almost all games you get a plan and then get the materials and tput the two together and get a product, easy in all games i would guess.
Lineage 2 - Is grinding the opposite to being easy? In which case i would choose easy over grind every day.
Lack of content does not equate to Ease.
The arguements presented so far have not convinced me that WoW is indeed easy when compared to similar fantasy based MMOs as they all use the same basic formula, Quests, auto-attack, amor selection etc etc.
WoW is extremely easy. Like other posters have said you learn all your skills in the first 20 levels. When you quest you are rewarded with gear that is suitable for your level so there is no need to purchase armor til about level 25-30.It is very easy to level up which is a good point because you can get to the end of the game quickly, you can fully enjoy the power of your character without waiting 2 years and it allows you to try and learn multiple characters. In addition you can solo a majority of the first half of the game and any quests you come across excluding instances. However this is also its downfall, There isnt much depth other than just questing to kill "x" things and getting 800xp plus the mobs you killed. BAM you leveled. You reach endgame as someone said in about a month, and instances are fun and all but how many times can you do them before you get bored. Even if you play as other characters you reach endgame with that char the following month and now your doing the same instances you were last month you are just nuking as a shadow priest as oppose to tanking as a war.
I can from FFXI and it does not allow you to solo (much). The game is primarily party based and requires players to time attacks to create skill chains and magic bursts. Its not a "harder" game to play it just takes coordination, and as most of us know communicating with people usually poses a challenge.
In FFXI you level when you form a party. And the party is formed when there is a tank, backup tank, healing, backup healer, DD, backup DD. You need essentially that to formula to play (on average, this excludes mana burn parties etc). Many of my friends quit FFXI because they were a warrior in the early stages of the game with 3 other warriors looking for a party and no healing to support any parties.
WoW is by no standards a bad game, it just is easy to level instant satisfaction. I prefer games for mroe of the long run though.
-Maltos-
Thanks Vrazule for expressing in clear terms exactly what i am thinking.
As far as i can see from the replies so far:
WoW is mainly solo, so you only need to group for instances, so you dont waste much time waiting for groups and can level at will.
WoW gives a lot of xp for kills and quests so you end up levelling quickly, and ultimately get to the end game quickly. At least it has a decently kitted out end game.
VG is the only game where there is experience lost when you die, out of all the game i have played(Eve too, if you do not have na up-to date clone).
Maybe it is easier to find a group in WoW then other MMOs, but surely this is a good thing.
All in all i have to agree with Vrazule and Wow is just as hard or as easy as any other game out there.
You could not have played EVE and make these statements.
And OP, if you have an agenda for your posts, come out and say them, don't ask "innocent" questions that you already know the answer to.
I agree with Vrazule in one respect, people call WOW easy because it make the game fun for many players who were previously turned off from the tedious nature of MMO's in the past (I was one of them) and I can say I appreciated WOW's gameplay. They would have kept me if it only had a bit more depth and sandbox type nature to it, but no game can be everything to everyone, they have to pick a direction and stick with it.
Blizzard has certainly succeeded in this regard.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You could not have played EVE and make these statements.
And OP, if you have an agenda for your posts, come out and say them, don't ask "innocent" questions that you already know the answer to.
I agree with Vrazule in one respect, people call WOW easy because it make the game fun for many players who were previously turned off from the tedious nature of MMO's in the past (I was one of them) and I can say I appreciated WOW's gameplay. They would have kept me if it only had a bit more depth and sandbox type nature to it, but no game can be everything to everyone, they have to pick a direction and stick with it.
Blizzard has certainly succeeded in this regard.
What is the big deal about crafting in Eve? You hire a factory, install the Blueprint, and then it calculates the minerals you need, and gives you a quote, If you have the required minerals in the hanger you click ok and wait till the producted is cooked.
Maybe getting the minerals and components required is harder, but that doesn't make the actual process of crafting in Eve any harder.
My post is a challenge to people who say that WoW is easy to explain why they think so, as i find it similar to all other MMO fantasy based games, so if WoW is easy os to are allothers. And i am sick hearing people say "Wow is easy" and "WoW is for kids" when infact there is no substance behind these claims!
Here, this is why I believe it is easy. Rehashed instances and raid scripts. They have reused raid scripts and instance scripts multiple times already and each one they come out with are very similar if not the same as another boss but with just more hp the higher up you go. If they released new ideas for scripts or continued with their original ideas at the release of WoW it would be a different story. They continue to dumb down the requirments for item achievement and bending to the complainers. That is why I believe WoW can be seen as easy.
I think it's fair to say that WoW is an easy game. You don't need to be a pro gamer to join a raid guild and earn uber epics, you just need to be able to do the basics and play alot. This is pretty much the same for every MMORPG out there. If you're used to other genres such as RTS or FPS, then the skill requirement for WoW is comparitively low.
However, WoW can be as difficult as any game out there. Sure, heroic instances are easy when you're with a regular group of people and you've all got epic gear. But go in with a PuG where people have blues and greens and the difficulty goes up conisderably.
Healing in 2.4's new instance (MGT) with a PuG with people that haven't been there before, is very difficult, and is easily comparable to any dungeon I used to camp in EQ or quest in EQ2. Some classes are easier to get the basics right than others: for example, a mage can just spam his nuke button in a PvE fight, but a Shadowpriest has to maintain several ability chains with dots all on different cool-downs as well as having dispell duties and CC'ing undead. Obviously mages CC too, it's a situational examle.
WoW PvP is where the real challenge is, because there is no 'easy', especially in the arenas when you're ranked high enough to be fighting people all with similar gear. People say that the classes are unbalanced for 1v1 and 2v2 and that might be true, but imbalance implies fighting people with a slight situational advantage (and the balance issues are only ever slight), hence challenge.
We could go into a debate about how gear > skill and all that but in the fights where it matters, you're challenged. I suspect most of the people finding the game too easy aren't playing competitively or aren't trying some of the harder challenges.
Most of the "challenge" in other MMORPGs stems from the fact you're completely dependant on other people, if you can get those people together, or get in with a good guild/clan/corp etc... it becomes easy anyway. The real challenge in these so-called hardcore MMORPGS is finding people
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
What makes a game difficult??.. Grinding isn't difficult, it's just long, boring, and tedious.. so that's really not it.
For me most of the time what makes an MMO difficult is player / player interaction. in WoW from level 1 - 70 you don't have to even speak to another person, granted you won't be doing anything once you hit 70 due to the utter lack of social infrastructure, but that's beside the point, the difficulty of getting from 1 - 70 is purely in the hands of the individual, and most people will take the easier path. There's a reason why so many elite quests were simply left unfinished so much that Blizzard made them non-elite... it was too difficult and wasn't efficient to find a group to do this stuff when it was far easier and faster to go do something else. These quests made leveling harder, so they were just dropped by the community.
Since it's possible to succeed with little difficulty solo in WoW and actually XP more efficiently alone than in groups, I tend to label WoW as easy at least until you hit the level cap or choose to run group-oriented content.
>_> <_< ^_^
You could not have played EVE and make these statements.
And OP, if you have an agenda for your posts, come out and say them, don't ask "innocent" questions that you already know the answer to.
I agree with Vrazule in one respect, people call WOW easy because it make the game fun for many players who were previously turned off from the tedious nature of MMO's in the past (I was one of them) and I can say I appreciated WOW's gameplay. They would have kept me if it only had a bit more depth and sandbox type nature to it, but no game can be everything to everyone, they have to pick a direction and stick with it.
Blizzard has certainly succeeded in this regard.
What is the big deal about crafting in Eve? You hire a factory, install the Blueprint, and then it calculates the minerals you need, and gives you a quote, If you have the required minerals in the hanger you click ok and wait till the producted is cooked.
Maybe getting the minerals and components required is harder, but that doesn't make the actual process of crafting in Eve any harder.
My post is a challenge to people who say that WoW is easy to explain why they think so, as i find it similar to all other MMO fantasy based games, so if WoW is easy os to are allothers. And i am sick hearing people say "Wow is easy" and "WoW is for kids" when infact there is no substance behind these claims!
Oh god please dont tell me your a carebear miner. You are arent you. EVE is PvP based game with probably the most complicatred econemy ever in any game.
First it takes a little skill to learn the market and how to menipulate it in your favor. Yes money does help to but still you get the idea.
Second the game is many PVP based and PVP in EVE take's skill (its not a time sink like a previus poster said). Plus the PvP goes much deeper then just ships bashing each other with Auto Cannons. There's alot of things that go on in the back round in EVE that really make it require more skill.
Just for starters, EVE is no harder than any other game to get into (had two accounts at one time, one for mining/crafting, one for PvP). It has a hand hold start, and pretty much holds your hand from then on in as far as missions (quests) are concerned. The rest of the game is no different from any other MMO on the market, it can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be.
The crafting and market in EVE has more depth to it as the economy fluctuates from system to system, but beyond that it is all a matter of supply and demand just like anything else. Buy cheap where items are in abundance and sell high in low availability areas (shuttles were a great money spinner in low sec, hehe). It just takes a lot longer to haul the stuff to a good selling point rather than running to an auction house (unless you can contract someone to haul it for you
MMO's all pretty much boil down to the same thing and just because EVE is set in space it is no different from WOW when you drill down the basics of it all. In wow you pick the right armour, equipment, weapons and ammo to do the job at hand, in EVE you pick the right ship, equpment, weapon and ammo to do the job at hand. Yes eve has a much more open and impressive approach to PvP than WOW, but in absolute basic terms it all comes down to experience and the right 'build'.
I have played quite a few MMO's over the years and there are not that many that are hard to learn and those that have been difficult has usually been down to poor development/storyboarding more than anything else.
I am not trying to belittle EVE in any way as it is a fantastic game that everyone should try at least once, but i think a lot of people get put off it when it is said how complex a game it is when in reality it has a pretty easy learning curve, just a longer experience curve than others.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Gah.
For a challenging (yet fun) MMO with a steep learning curve, go try Anarchy Online (another game where you still lose XP for dying, by the way, although no longer permenantly).
here's a game with NON tedious, complex mechanics that actually make the game better overall, instead of just being timesinks.
For a crafting system that's complex and requires some thought, check out SWG (or better yet, old SWG...cry).
I guarantee you'll have to do some planning to create anything worth selling. Stock up on advil, because you're going to get a migraine.
Just a couple examples off the top of my head.
IMO, WoW is a game of connect the dots for those who would rather not have to think a whole lot. Simple is not necessarily better, or more fun, just accessable to more people.
Rofl, first off you're not making the same points here. You have two different ones that you're trying to mix into one.
Point 1) You don't think WoW is easy
Point 2) You think Wow is like every other MMO
Well for Point 2, maybe that's why WoW is part of the MMO market? Because they're all similar? Wow who woulda thunk it. No one denies WoW is like other MMOs, in fact, most people argue new MMOs are all too similar to WoW.
Now, for Point 1, you'll find WoW to be a casual's paradise, and since I assume that's what you are, enjoy your game. It's hard for you. Don't try to accuse the hardcores and/or older players who used to play of being wrong just because Blizz took most of the older challenges out to cater to YOU. There's two different mindsets here, deal with it.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I'd have to point to you to this "Guide to T2 Component Production as a starting point on the difficulty in really crafting something in EVE from end to end. Sure, the final assembly process is quite simple, but the planning involved to make and profit from the items can be as involved as you want to make it.
www.thebabushka.com/eve-online/
WOW was easy. It had a short leveling curve, (compared to L2) which has only been made easier since I left. Crafting, a total no brainer, anyone could do it, and never leave Ironforge for the most part. (sure, sometimes you had to level up to 35, but that wasn't hard). Questing would have been hard, if you didn't have tools like Thottbot and UI Mods to help you every step of the way.
Now raiding was somewhat difficult and required a good amount of dedication to the cause.
I agree though, saying WOW is easy or for kids is just an attempt to belittle the game for no reason. I view WOW as user friendly, and fun. It just wasn't deep enough for me over the long haul, but still, I got 19 good months out of the game, which is long in my case so no complaints.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
remember that lvl 20-60 has had exp increase of 25% to help new players get into outlands where 90% of players are.
As to many who say it takes a few weeks to a month to get to 70.. if thats game time.. ie 720 hours then they are right.. if its a few weeks to a month real time.. starts on april 1st be lvl 70 by april 30th.. only hardcore new player (no job) and sessoned players will achieve that.
There is alot to explore in WoW.. sure quests suggest you travel to a certain zone but you by no means need to do that.. there is always atleast 2 or 3 zones that are good for your lvl.
My first toon took me just over 4 months to get to 60 and a further 6 weeks to get to 70... real time). And once there i spend a 1 year at lvl 60 raiding and PvP'ing.
Some days you might not want to lvl and will work on professions or spend a day PvP'ing... if your a hunter you'll spend atlot time taming pets and trying those out in PvE and PvP.
WoW's a great game.. even more so if you have played the WC games becuase you'll se thinkg that spark a memory.
When I type WoW is too easy, I mean that endgame PvE content is bland, boring and easy to master.
If you read all the posts then you will understand what i am saying.
I hear a lot of peeps saying oh WoW is easy etc.
I am saying that it is just as hard or as easy as any other MMO out there period.
You got to look at what hard means here,
1) Hard to understand
2) Hard to execute
3)Hard to level up.
I personally don't find Wow or any other MMO hard with regards to the first two points. And possible not hard to level up either, it just a matter of time.
Lol at your post, how do you ascertain that i am not an older player. And i am not accusing anybody of anything.
My advice to you is to read through and understand posts before coming on here and making a fool of yourself by commenting on what you preceive is being talked about when infact you have no idea!
If you didn't think that something needed defending, you would not be defending it, would you?
I'll give you a few reasons why I think WoW is easy...
Death Penalty - WoW pretty much doesn't have a death penalty.. A short corpse run. Very small durability loss. These are some of the most minor drawbacks any MMORPG has seen when it comes to the death penalty.
Character Development - No stat development, no specific one time only choices between permanent skills, a very forgiving talent system that allows mistakes since you can respec at the drop of a hat... This is one of the most disappointing aspects of WoW, to me. There is no deep thinking involved in advancing your character, which leaves a very small margin between players who think intelligently and players who don't. This also brings forth the flavor of the week build for all classes.
Currency - Maintaining my money has never been easier in any MMORPG. It's simply extremely easy to gain more than enough gold to pay for all skills, professions, and decent equipment. Any other game I can think of is harder in this aspect.
Relative mob difficulty - WoW is one of the only MMORPGs that I can think of where it is EASY for any class at any level to solo a mob one or two levels higher than itself. What does this effect?? The learning curve. Some games, it will take you many deaths until you can figure out what it is/isn't that you can/can't solo. WoW's learning curve has a level of ease behind the fact that you can always solo 'peer' mobs without much risk (Peer mobs are also the mobs that tend to be quest objectives for quests in pretty much ALL MMORPGs)
Escaping from battle - Pretty much every class has a decent method for escaping from a grim situation, even at somewhat low health. Many other games, if you are in over your head, you are pretty much screwed. (EDIT: not to mention, the length in which mobs chase you is VERY short compared to some games)
PvP - You can only go up from here. There are many guards in many locations that will protect you from getting ganked. There are many safe zones. Again, there's pretty much absolutely no death penalty here.
I've written this post over a few minutes on a whim... If I were to give it more thought, I could probably come up with a few more things...
Regardless, WoW is a decent game... It's just a little easy. That doesn't mean that there is no room for improvement and nothing to master.