Does GOD exist?

xpowderx

The greatest question probably asked at our time. A singularity? Similar to the Big Bang. Questions I always ask myself is why the universe have the same equal temperature overall. Where did the dark matter come from. What of probabilities.

 

Once you're ready to ask the question, "does God exist?" here are a few observations to consider as you begin your search for an objective answer:

• Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.
• Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the molecular level. Information requires intelligence and design requires a designer.
• Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life arising from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are astronomical. In fact, scientists aren't even sure if life could have evolved naturally via unintelligent processes. If life did not arise by chance, how did it arise?
• The universe is ordered by natural laws. Where did these laws come from and what purpose do they serve?
• Philosophers agree that a transcendent Law Giver is the only plausible explanation for an objective moral standard. So, ask yourself if you believe in right and wrong and then ask yourself why. Who gave you your conscience? Why does it exist?
• People of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these prodigious accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?

 Now the issue at hand considering science to find this answer. "It is not that the methods and institutions of science  that somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute.

 

If, on the other hand, I were neutral, and didn't already have an "a priori adherence" to a particular worldview (be it naturalistic or otherwise), the question "does God really exist?" wouldn't be pointless at all. Rather, it would be the first step in an objective and meaningful search for ultimate truth. Our willingness to ask the question with an open mind is fundamental to our ability to discover the truth behind the answer. So first of all, before you even ask the question, decide whether or not you're really willing to accept the answer

 

 www.allaboutphilosophy.org/does-god-exist-c.htm

unconformed

good questions you bulleted.

too bad noone can answer your thread title.

Yes. God does exist. my wife certainly thinks so. Oh God, Oh God, oh God.

I cant do any better than that. sry.

Anofalye

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGnMAASU7SY&feature=related

 

Behold the truth!  :P

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTKTsJpuRSY

 

The 2nd is a techno mix.  Same truth.  :P

Darkcreature

Did the God exist?  In modern times, more and more people dont believe that God exist in the this world, in despite of  in past or now,  Beliveing the God can be a belief that can give us light and hope, which make us straightly confront difficultys in our life,  In a word, i belive more that God exists in our minds.

Wharg0ul

Hail Satan

Aelfinn

Originally posted by xpowderx


Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.
Correction, they have shown that there was a single point of origin for the observable mass in our area. We have no way of determining whether or not this is unique in frequency, location or form. For instance, there could be billions of "big bangs" happening somewhere in the universe by the time I finish writing this, only they are so unimaginably distant it makes no difference whatsoever.
Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the molecular level. Information requires intelligence and design requires a designer.
Or trillions upon trillions of failed models eventually leading to successful ones, either works, both in biology and elsewhere. One method is simply less focused
Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life arising from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are astronomical. In fact, scientists aren't even sure if life could have evolved naturally via unintelligent processes. If life did not arise by chance, how did it arise?
A.) There are, as always, multiple opposing theories and calculations on that topic, don't mistake a small section of scientists for a significant portion. B.) One thing that all sides generally agree on is simply that we do not have sufficient information on the topic to make any sure prediction.
The universe is ordered by natural laws. Where did these laws come from and what purpose do they serve?
Must there always be an origin or purpose? In any case, there is only one true natural law, the rest of it is simply side affects
Philosophers agree that a transcendent Law Giver is the only plausible explanation for an objective moral standard. So, ask yourself if you believe in right and wrong and then ask yourself why. Who gave you your conscience? Why does it exist?
Primarily social conditioning, but also genetic tendancies. We, like most mammals, have an interest in social bonding particularly with our young, it is a survival technique that serves us mutch better than the classic breed as much as possible then leave shtick used by most of nature. That said, I do believe in right and wrong, not because I hold any transcendant value in it, but because I place value upon the bonds between members of humanity, and our ability to use our social skills to achieve hights of reasoning far beyond our normal limits.
People of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these prodigious accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?
Perhaps, and perhaps not. This is the inherant flaw with the sciences, there is no way in hell everything can be explained, there will always be something else mysterious and unchallengable.  That said, throughout history men and women have shown themselves quite willing to fool themselves and others in this respect for various reasons, from power and glory to a wee bit too much peyote. If there are any genuine cases of such contact, sorting through the fakes makes them almost impossible to identify from the beginning. This is a particularly interesting subject for me, since I'm struggling with exactly such a question myself. A simple case of Deja Vu, but if my memory sequences are correct and in order, I dreamed the exact happenings of a particular conversation months before I even met the girl, something similar occured with a recently purchased used car. Logic tells me its a product of faulty programming in the memory department, one runs into such cases all the time with both computers and psychology, but its a hard feeling to shake.

 With all of that said, I would most certainly say no. There are far too many inconsistancies with the classic and current view of god for me to consider such a being even close to a likely possibility.

That said, I will concede there is ample room for another force, even an intelligence or purpose in what we know of the universe, and that the existence of such would indeed fill a number of theoretical holes in need of closure.

Spys

Let's start with the comos, the big bang was just a theory made on observations of man, by calcuting speed and movement of galaxy's. they even created something similair to a bing bang in at cern.

Design does not need a designer or at least not a intellegent one. Take a look at the earth, erosion creates landscapes for millions of years. And with the latest technology we are able to create our own machines on molecular level.

Biochemist and mathematicians cant calculate the odds because the dont have all the facts, we still dont know where we come from so how can you calculate something without knowing its situation? For example if i say 1+X-Y=3 it doesnt mean the awnser of X and Y are 3 and 1 but they could also be 4 and 2.

The universe is not orderd by natural laws but by  physical law, scientific law, or a law of nature. These laws never came from anywhere but the minds and instruments of scientists. They descibe an event or process wich will always happen, like water will turn to ice when it's below 0* celcius.

About the consience thing, lets take a look a humans as animals. What is the main cause or goal, of an animal? To survive, and for it's species to survive. Things like morals and consience were made through time to survive.

These supernatural events arent always supernatural, anti-depressive drugs for example were thought to have a working effect on man, but all it did was to give man the feeling that it would work making the body get rid of the depression for a certain period of time (also know as the placebo effect). Also during a study they found out that people who had people pray for them they would get sicker faster than people who didnt pray or had people pray for them

I believe that God as a person wouldnt exist but God as an event creating the universe and life, does.

SioBabble

Proof that the God of Abraham is non-existent: His commandment about having no other God before Hm does not stop many of those who claim to believe in Him from putting Mammon before Him on a daily basis.

Gameloading

I don't believe a God exists. If you answer the question: Who designed us? You also have to ask the first question: Who made the designer?

MadAce

If you mean with "God" the following:

 

A sentient being unbound by (what we perceive to be) the laws of space and time.

 

 

Then, yes. Most certainly.

Khuzarrz

I'm a theist, so yes. That said, I go out of my way to counter arguments for the existance of God, because I don't want to believe. I would much rather that everything made mathematical/logical sense than introduce a 'trump card', and equally, I don't like the idea of having something undeniably 'higher' than me judging me, and finally, I don't like the idea of being determined. I'd rather be determined by an entirely random event than actually have my life 'planned out' for me.

 

In terms of your bullet points, I think all of the necessary counter arguments have already been made. I will say one thing about your point of molecular biology. You're wrong. To say 'information requires intelligence' is sadly incorrect. In the context for that to be correct, you're treating it as an IT term. This would mean there is no information in cells. There is DATA in cells. It only requires intelligence to 'compute' that data into information in order to create something useful with it. Time for a terrible analogy to try and explain this... Imagine you've drawn a grid on the floor. It has two columns, and 250 rows. Whilst you're away from your lovely grid, someone comes back and places a stone in one out of every two cells (i.e. either there is one in the left column, or one in the right). That's data. When you return, and decide to interpret the left column as '0' and the right column as '1', and you read the data that you've found in as:

010000100110010100100000011100110111010101110010011001010010000001110100011011110010000001100100011100100110

100101101110011010110010000001111001011011110111010101110010001000000100111101110110011000010110110001110100

01101001011011100110010100101110

And in turn, you apply ASCII to that, and turn the data into:

"Be sure to drink your Ovaltine."

 

THAT'S the information. It only requires 'intelligence' (in the loosest sense) to work that part out. In fact, true intelligence as we know it is only required when turning that intelligence into knowledge... But that's another story. The fact is, DATA in cells does not require any intelligent lifeform to have created it. It can be entirely random. And probably is.

Teiman

God exist?

 

Of course, ALL OF THEN,  seth, baal, alha, thor.. all are real, on the mind of some people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

xpowderx

Originally posted by Khuzarrz


I'm a theist, so yes. That said, I go out of my way to counter arguments for the existance of God, because I don't want to believe. I would much rather that everything made mathematical/logical sense than introduce a 'trump card', and equally, I don't like the idea of having something undeniably 'higher' than me judging me, and finally, I don't like the idea of being determined. I'd rather be determined by an entirely random event than actually have my life 'planned out' for me.
 
In terms of your bullet points, I think all of the necessary counter arguments have already been made. I will say one thing about your point of molecular biology. You're wrong. To say 'information requires intelligence' is sadly incorrect. In the context for that to be correct, you're treating it as an IT term. This would mean there is no information in cells. There is DATA in cells. It only requires intelligence to 'compute' that data into information in order to create something useful with it. Time for a terrible analogy to try and explain this... Imagine you've drawn a grid on the floor. It has two columns, and 250 rows. Whilst you're away from your lovely grid, someone comes back and places a stone in one out of every two cells (i.e. either there is one in the left column, or one in the right). That's data. When you return, and decide to interpret the left column as '0' and the right column as '1', and you read the data that you've found in as:
010000100110010100100000011100110111010101110010011001010010000001110100011011110010000001100100011100100110

100101101110011010110010000001111001011011110111010101110010001000000100111101110110011000010110110001110100

01101001011011100110010100101110
And in turn, you apply ASCII to that, and turn the data into:
"Be sure to drink your Ovaltine."
 
THAT'S the information. It only requires 'intelligence' (in the loosest sense) to work that part out. In fact, true intelligence as we know it is only required when turning that intelligence into knowledge... But that's another story. The fact is, DATA in cells does not require any intelligent lifeform to have created it. It can be entirely random. And probably is.

I am amused you are  attempting to explain binary to me. For me that is funny. Those that know me here probably are laughing as well.

Random? Only if its part of the program.

sanicek

I just thought this may be an interesting reading regarding the question raised in this thread: http://listverse.com/religion/10-post-modern-religions/ maybe the following one especially: http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/

CactusmanX

I see no reason to think one does, I am not convenced by arguments for any deity.

The arguments usually come in the form of one or more of these.

Logic

The complexity in the universe can only be designed, how could it happen randomly? Therefore there must be a designer.

But you can't assume that because humans create complex things that all complex things require a creator and evolution isn't random, quite the opposite, mutations are "selected" by their surroundings, governed by  what we see as instrinsic laws.

Statistical

The odds of evolution and the big bang happening without a god is extremely low, how could it happen without a god?

You can't form a probability of something existing or not, it either happened or it didn't.  That is like saying what is the probability of there being a man with green hair named Matt McDollen living in Arizona, no probability he either is or isn't.

Moral

Since we all agree that certain standards like murder is wrong therefore we must get a consceince from a god of some sort.  And without god there is no objective morality.

Or maybe morality is a product of evolution, being altruistic and not killing people helps the species to survive, so organisms that did kill each other all the time I would venture to say didn't have high survival rates.  And even if god exists there isn't any objective morality, just because he is the ultimate law giver does not mean his laws become right and true, morals are not objective, they are are projected onto actions and things by people, if they were objective I should be able to calculate the goodness of something, without defining good, it would have to be intrinsic.

Anecdotal

Miracles, healings etc.

These are stories that either do not have in citings, like "one time my grandma ...".  Or if they are documented they can be explained using natural phenonmenon.  Why is it that if god is healing people does he require doctors to do it, or only heals people that had potentially curable problems, why don't amputees or decapitated people ever become healed?

Pejorative

Look how many people believe in god/s.  There must be something to it.

Well allow me to borrow from Pen and Teller " and Candle in the Wind by Sir Elton John is the highest sellling song, popular sure doesn't mean right,"  Using this logic if popular opinion world wide changes does that mean that reality changed to?

Purpose

But why does everything exist, why are we here?

Why assume that purpose is intrinsic in things and in the universe.  Nothing has purpose, we project purpose onto things, but intrinsicly there is no purpose in anything, make up your own. So this point is moot.

 

Of course I forgot some like Pascal's Wager, which is just a joke.

Until a god shows itself, and not just to me I need many different people of different faiths observing it multiple times consistantly to rule out shizophrinia and mass hysteria, and not isolated like bigfoot, nessie or ghost lore, but has more solid backing like the existance of China then I would believe in a god, but I still wouldn't care about it to be honest.

De4th_M0nKee

God is a creation of the human mind. A tool that the emotion coloured human mind uses to help deal with a universe that is devoid of emotion, and in many ways alien. To many humans the numbers and theories hard science have to offer do little to answer the emotional needs. If my loved one dies, the scientific explanation of that death will be quite arid. Leaving my emotional side insisting their MUST be more to this death! That my loved ones mortality and my own must have a deeper meaning. 

 

I think the best example of this is how the God or Gods idea has evolved with humans. The names used for a being or beings that created the earth, space and all things are as various as the tribes of mankind. On the opposing side is science with answers to questions that fly in the face of true believers, to remove a single brick from the wall of faith is to question the whole structure.

 

A great example of why God (or Gods) is not real, but science is always has been. Is for me, the great pyramids in Egypt. These were built as the tombs of the Pharos and were built in the shape that they were to resemble the rays of the sun. Ra the sun god of Egypt at the time and the Pharo were his children. Now Ra didn't build the pyramids or even send the poor mortals instructions on how to do it. It was an engineering trial and error process, it took mathematics and decades of time. The end result? The pyramids stood as a monument to engineering and the tallest structures built by men until the year1800. The god Ra, major deity in whose name the pyramids were partially built is dead and has been for 1000s of years.

Jackcolt

I'm inclined to say no.

MadAce

xpowderx

Originally posted by MadAce


=
THE FLYING SPAGETTI MONSTER!!!!www.venganza.org/

 

HYPERI0N

God cant be proved to exist nor can it be proved not to exist because the idea of God is simply to big and abstract to the lives we live. All i can say tho is that i have Faith.

modjoe86

As Hyperion stated, the concept of what God (Christian) represents (omniscence, eternity, omnipotence, yet a heartwarming personal devotion to each and every one of us) is too much for me to wrap my head around.  I acknowledge this, and am currently an agnostic.  While I have leanings towards theism if I were forced to choose one way or the other, I blame this once again on my complete ignorance with regards to the concept of God.   That being said, I think a God in the Christian sense is highly, highly, highly unlikely.  If anything, I think God is of the clockworker variety, or a super-intelligent species.  If said Christian God were to exist, I'm not really sure I'd want to be on his side.  One major qualm I have with God is man's free will.  If God is omniscient, he ultimately knows whether or not I will burn in hell at the time of my conception.  How do I have any free will in the matter?  I may have some perceived form of free will in this instance, but ultimately my actions are decided.  Why would this all-knowing, all-loving God create a being solely for the purpose of damning it to hell for eternity? 

I'll leave the problem of evil for later discussion.

mrw0lf

So long as people refuse to accept responsability for their actions and others keep them from doing so, God will exist.

MadAce

As proven previously by me: The odds that a god exists are quite large.

Zikiel

Personally, as it's probable that there are higher forms of life in the universe, some of which may be high enough above to be considered omniscient, then it is illogical to discount the existence of such a being. However.. is this thread about god-like beings, or the a-typical white robed, bearded Christian God? I would certainly lean toward the former, as such a being that does not require allegience is preferable to the one of servitude. Basically, there are probably higher forms of life, but nothing in the area of Christian God.

I find the concept of faith to be silly, and the ideas of seeing God is even sillier. What would an omniscient being want with a bunch of meat-headed bipeds? And more so, what kind of omniscient being would create an entire order around worshipping him?.. An egomaniacal one surely. It must be like playing the Sims with a bunch of exceptionally stupid characters.

Khuzarrz

Originally posted by xpowderx


 
Originally posted by Khuzarrz


I'm a theist, so yes. That said, I go out of my way to counter arguments for the existance of God, because I don't want to believe. I would much rather that everything made mathematical/logical sense than introduce a 'trump card', and equally, I don't like the idea of having something undeniably 'higher' than me judging me, and finally, I don't like the idea of being determined. I'd rather be determined by an entirely random event than actually have my life 'planned out' for me.
 
In terms of your bullet points, I think all of the necessary counter arguments have already been made. I will say one thing about your point of molecular biology. You're wrong. To say 'information requires intelligence' is sadly incorrect. In the context for that to be correct, you're treating it as an IT term. This would mean there is no information in cells. There is DATA in cells. It only requires intelligence to 'compute' that data into information in order to create something useful with it. Time for a terrible analogy to try and explain this... Imagine you've drawn a grid on the floor. It has two columns, and 250 rows. Whilst you're away from your lovely grid, someone comes back and places a stone in one out of every two cells (i.e. either there is one in the left column, or one in the right). That's data. When you return, and decide to interpret the left column as '0' and the right column as '1', and you read the data that you've found in as:
010000100110010100100000011100110111010101110010011001010010000001110100011011110010000001100100011100100110

100101101110011010110010000001111001011011110111010101110010001000000100111101110110011000010110110001110100

01101001011011100110010100101110
And in turn, you apply ASCII to that, and turn the data into:
"Be sure to drink your Ovaltine."
 
THAT'S the information. It only requires 'intelligence' (in the loosest sense) to work that part out. In fact, true intelligence as we know it is only required when turning that intelligence into knowledge... But that's another story. The fact is, DATA in cells does not require any intelligent lifeform to have created it. It can be entirely random. And probably is.

I am amused you are  attempting to explain binary to me. For me that is funny. Those that know me here probably are laughing as well.

 

Random? Only if its part of the program.

You misunderstand my post. I'm entirely aware that you're most likely far more up-to-date on binary than myself. My explanation was for those people reading the post that aren't (it's nice to keep the little people up to speed, don't you think? ). The part directed at you was the fact that you're misclassifying 'information' and thus your premise is false. Information (in the IT sense) may require intelligence (of some description) but there is no information in genetic code, only data.

mrw0lf

Originally posted by Khuzarrz


I don't like the idea of being determined. I'd rather be determined by an entirely random event than actually have my life 'planned out' for me.
 

But random is entirely relative. If your life were planned out but you were unaware of the plan then there is no distinction to you. It should be noted that despite the phenomenal odds that were encountered that led to your life, the fact is those odds are finite no matter how massive.

Take from that what you will, free will exists only as a choice at an instant, but simply because it is possible no matter how improbable the choice you make is definable and predictable.