Apologists and deniers - you cannot play this game past mid level and not recognize the severe frequency with which MOBs 'break' rules as I have described. Heck, if I had a dollar for everytime I died for no apparent reason in game only to find the combat log saying 'you where killed by something' with no other information, even with no MOBs present .
Actually if you are literally saying you got a message that "you were killed by something" I think that is a known bug where you somehow (through jump, beholder telekenesis, or knockdown/up/back) manage to break out of some part of the landscape geometry and end up "falling" to your death.
Traps and certain attacks from bosses will generate that in your combat log. I belive stat damage or death from diease might also cause the "killed by something", besides fallign damage.
I see "You were killed by something" freguently. I can also tell what it was that killed me when i've recieved that message.
You're just a tad bit off your rocker. Several characters above 10 after a few weeks? Well now, then that's a case of power leveling and not having a life more then it is a problem with the game mechanics of DDO. There are only 2 mobs that I am aware of which have occasional line of site issues. One would be the Earth Elemental's grab effect which can occasionally bug out and hit you anywhere on the map, but this mob DOES NOT attack you in any other way when this occures. The other potential issue is Beholders going wacky with all their effects. Creatures are not actually attacking after they get Hold/FleshToStone/KnockedDown, it's simply going through the action queue that was instigated just prior to the state was applied to them. The "sliding" is obviously annoying but does not hamper game play in any way, and they really don't move more then a couple scale feet anyways. Lag is nebulous. There are times when the server causes hitching. There is also the plethora of issues a user is responsible for in regards to their PC. There had been a nasty lag issue a few weeks ago which was resolved and other then that the occasional lag spike, that's experianced in EVERY online game, isn't prelevant. Stuttering slide show? You must be speaking of that lag week when Turbine tried fixing the summon-bug-exploit. I have never seen lag as bad, not before and not since. Fake challenges? Not a one. Are you upset about something else 'cs you're not making a case? I suspsect you're mad. You have several character leveled "10+" after a "few weeks" and all I get from this is you don't have a life. Sorry, but that's how it reads. AoC isn't going to be any different in the manner you profess. Good luck, go outside and get some fresh air. It's much better then sitting at your keyboard and leveling as many characters as possible in a few weeks.
What won't you apologize away? LOL, I still have 3 or 4 days left in my sub - care to meet me and be proven dead wrong inside 10 minute? I can easily zip to Threnal and show you the beholder casting PKs around corners and through walls and from 2 to 4 times the actual range it should be able to cast. I can easily take you to the Desert and show you the mummy that casts hold from 4 to 5 rooms away then wanders over and beats you down while you are powerless to act in any way. As for the lag issue - please - this is so widespread and universal that not hardly a group doesn't complain about it and acknowledge it - even Turbine has claimed to have issues two patches to fix a problem you deny even exists. Sad that you have to deny reality to defend the game, as I said it has many good qualities but being a real game challenge over mid level is not one of them and the cheating MOB thing is pretty obvious to anyone who plays the game and is even remotely familiar with the D&D ruleset and DDO rules.
Beholders have a very long visual range, which considering they are a big eyeball, seems fair enough. If you trigger a death attack it isn't a beam so will based on a LOS on casting, which would allow you to be around a corner. But to be honest if you go up against a BH without a deathblock item on you are sort of asking to get your arse kicked.
Same goes for a Mummy, if you don't have some seriously impressive rolls you need to get yourself a fear immunity item (Reaver's Ring) or you are going to end up feared and dead.
Every other fantasy MMO does basic LOS checks, that is why you get hit through walls and arrows, spells whatever curve through the air and home in on your position. The fact they don't in DDO is very impressive, so the fact it does a LOS on certain spells and for most you are able to use walls is really a massive credit to the engine.
You won't convince me the Turbine engine isn't the best for this sort of thing, even the much vaunted AoC engine, is just LOS on click and will quite happily shoot you through walls, other players and bend in mid-air if you move while the projectile is in flight.
I think that is why I have a big problem with your bellyaching you have chosen the best engine for projectile/spell pathing to come and rubbish, when just about any other MMO doesn't even try to do it correctly.
I suggest you go try another MMO and pay real close attention to how well they do it, see how many spells and projectiles you can dodge, how many times you can put yourself in the way of something aimed at someone else when it is in flight. I wish you luck because they are generally noddy crap at it.
p.s. I have done Invaders solo several times and I know Beholders very well, you just have to accept doesn't matter how well you plan, if you get unlucky they can fry you on the spot, but all but their dispel and death spells will be blocked by the scenery. I wouldn't even take on a Mummy without a fear immunity item, would be instant death.
What won't you apologize away? LOL, I still have 3 or 4 days left in my sub - care to meet me and be proven dead wrong inside 10 minute? As for the lag issue - please - this is so widespread and universal that not hardly a group doesn't complain about it and acknowledge it - even Turbine has claimed to have issues two patches to fix a problem you deny even exists. Sad that you have to deny reality to defend the game, as I said it has many good qualities but being a real game challenge over mid level is not one of them and the cheating MOB thing is pretty obvious to anyone who plays the game and is even remotely familiar with the D&D ruleset and DDO rules.
Meet you ingame 10 mintues from posting? You're proving my point by making that statement. You even use "lol" in a sentence, and expect us to take you seriously?!?!
Only an idiot would come to these forums and accuse *ME* of being an ignorant fanboi. I believe there's still a good thread with me ranting about the patch that was to fix the AI which inadvertantly broke something on Turbine's end, and it was fixed. Fail at reading comprehension much?
Are you here to troll the forums 'cs the only quality of life you enjoy exists in videogames?
Beholders have a very long visual range, which considering they are a big eyeball, seems fair enough. If you trigger a death attack it isn't a beam so will based on a LOS on casting, which would allow you to be around a corner. But to be honest if you go up against a BH without a deathblock item on you are sort of asking to get your arse kicked. Same goes for a Mummy, if you don't have some seriously impressive rolls you need to get yourself a fear immunity item (Reaver's Ring) or you are going to end up feared and dead. Every other fantasy MMO does basic LOS checks, that is why you get hit through walls and arrows, spells whatever curve through the air and home in on your position. The fact they don't in DDO is very impressive, so the fact it does a LOS on certain spells and for most you are able to use walls is really a massive credit to the engine. You won't convince me the Turbine engine isn't the best for this sort of thing, even the much vaunted AoC engine, is just LOS on click and will quite happily shoot you through walls, other players and bend in mid-air if you move while the projectile is in flight. I think that is why I have a big problem with your bellyaching you have chosen the best engine for projectile/spell pathing to come and rubbish, when just about any other MMO doesn't even try to do it correctly. I suggest you go try another MMO and pay real close attention to how well they do it, see how many spells and projectiles you can dodge, how many times you can put yourself in the way of something aimed at someone else when it is in flight. I wish you luck because they are generally noddy crap at it. p.s. I have done Invaders solo several times and I know Beholders very well, you just have to accept doesn't matter how well you plan, if you get unlucky they can fry you on the spot, but all but their dispel and death spells will be blocked by the scenery. I wouldn't even take on a Mummy without a fear immunity item, would be instant death.
More excuses and apologies for blatant flaws. Beholders cannot see around corners and through walls, or they are not supposed to. No line of site means no line of sight regardless of how far you can see. AS for the idea that a video game makes ANY sense whatsoever having MOBs that regularly cast death spells on you before you are even close to a range at which you can react to them give me a break. That is precisely the point - they have had to buff MOBs so ridiculously because the base game is so laughably easy that it is now very much broken in terms of providing no real challenge in terms of outcomes being about what you do during the encounter.
And the mummy hold spell is despair, not fear. Nevertheless, having it cast on you from across the dungeon when you are nowhere in range is ludicrous. And you comment about immunity precisely demonstrates my point about why the game is a failure - it is about what you bring to the fight not what you do during the fight.
Originally posted by mindspat
Meet you ingame 10 mintues from posting? You're proving my point by making that statement. You even use "lol" in a sentence, and expect us to take you seriously?!?!
Only an idiot would come to these forums and accuse *ME* of being an ignorant fanboi. I believe there's still a good thread with me ranting about the patch that was to fix the AI which inadvertantly broke something on Turbine's end, and it was fixed. Fail at reading comprehension much?
Are you here to troll the forums 'cs the only quality of life you enjoy exists in videogames?
Sorry you don't want to take me up on my offer to prove exactly what I am saying - it seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do in the face of people denying the facts. As for all your personal attacks, it must be sad to want to counter and argument so badly yet only be able to muster childish personal attacks.
Just post a SS or better yet, xfire now supports video capture. You could then upload that to xfire or youtube.
I personally don't care. The trial is there for anyone to see for themselves if they like the game. I would tell anyone who reads this thread that try the trial if your thinking about playing the game. Don't go by what people on these forums say, who knows you may like the game, and you may not.
I personally haven't had the problems the OP states, but that's just me.
I have had the odd clicky not respond immediately, but it is very rare and only in the middle of a totally mad battle, but I honestly don't see this lag apart from entering new areas or when I have pushed my frame rate too low. Even during the world event it was playable with dozens and dozens of people all fighting at once. Bit of a slideshow when everyone turned up in the single instance, but that would be 100s of players. I know they are rather basic questions, but you aren't expecting changing of weapons to respond quickly (unless you took the feat), and you don't have auto-attack on? WoWs tech is different, it is click and forget, targetted with very basic LOS, that is very server light and just animation in the client. DDO actually tracks objects in space, which requires a lot more interaction between client and server (even with a bit of illusion is pretty amazing they can do it at all). So is really chalk and cheese, tech wise.
The marketplace event was fine until mobs showed up... then it was slideshow time. I think I read somewhere that the instance limit for public instances is about 50... but that is obviously way too high when the mobs were added, plus having people instance hop just made it worse. In any case I lay the blame for the marketplace event squarely on Turbine... it should have come as no surprise to them given the prior Sir Lawrence events yet they did nothing to mitigate the lag, e.g. lowering instance limit to 25 or so perhaps, and preventing people from moving into full instances would have been a great start.
I wasn't changing weapons or autoattacking or anything. Just running around the vale meleeing stuff with my pally and hitting the occasional cure mod which wouldn't fire maybe a quarter of the time. Just annoying.
I know DDO's engine does a lot more than WoW's, but I think that it has a lot of room for improvement. The fact that it can't handle even the typical 12 person raid very gracefully speaks to that. I have seen terrible lag in that big battle beyond the door we used to fireball in TS for instance.... there are just too many mobs and players interacting at the same time and the DDO engine can't handle it. I think if they improve the engine/data transfer to the point where it can handle full 12 person+mob groups with almost no lag that it would go a long way toward improving the whole general lag "feel" to the game.
I know DDO's engine does a lot more than WoW's, but I think that it has a lot of room for improvement. The fact that it can't handle even the typical 12 person raid very gracefully speaks to that. I have seen terrible lag in that big battle beyond the door we used to fireball in TS for instance.... there are just too many mobs and players interacting at the same time and the DDO engine can't handle it. I think if they improve the engine/data transfer to the point where it can handle full 12 person+mob groups with almost no lag that it would go a long way toward improving the whole general lag "feel" to the game.
See that is what I find interesting I do at least 2 full 12 man raids a week (normally Reaver and Shroud) and I don't get lag, at least nothing I have noticed. Maybe it is a US thing.
Happy to go through settings, frame rates (my machine is pretty ancient, so I am sure yours will be higher) and locations see if I get the same results, and are just not noticing.
I assume you are not suffering from the shearing problem where it feels like your characters leg and body are not quite moving in sync., and your forward movement sort of stutters. I posted the fix for it in another thread.
See that is what I find interesting I do at least 2 full 12 man raids a week (normally Reaver and Shroud) and I don't get lag, at least nothing I have noticed. Maybe it is a US thing. Happy to go through settings, frame rates (my machine is pretty ancient, so I am sure yours will be higher) and locations see if I get the same results, and are just not noticing. I assume you are not suffering from the shearing problem where it feels like your characters leg and body are not quite moving in sync., and your forward movement sort of stutters. I posted the fix for it in another thread.
Nope, I'm right there with you yet in the States. Only lag I've endured was during that "fix the AI" fumble Turbine did; I created a nice "Stay Away" post on its behalf.
I rarely have lag and it's usually nothing more then a 1 second lag spike - maybe 2 or 3 times a week? The whole party tends to comment on it: "Woah, nice lag spike!"
The game plays VERY smooth for me since they fixed that issue a few weeks ago.
p.s. The typical hitching I experiance is due to a corrupt XP service pack install on a partioned RAID+0 and inabilty to defrag, but I have work arounds. (fresh install coming this week)
On my laptop, which has 1.5G memory and a 9600/9800 card running XP, I have no lag at all unless I'm dual boxing with my old desktop which only has 512M memmory and a 4600 card. Even on the desktop, I usually only experience lag when entering a crowded area [10+ persons at short range - like near the mailbox in the harbor]. OTOH, my nephew's POS HP with 1G memory and a dx10 card with 256M [forgot the card number] but running VISTA and on a wireless network, lags frequently in town and rarely inside an instance. So, to the OP - while your machine looks to be up to spec, your lag may be due to memory hogging Vista, dx10 driver problems or running on a wireless network [or worse yet, all three!]
As pointed out above, if you are reading this thread because you are interesting in trying DDO - get off your ass and download the trial! Most of the issues that the OP mentions wre fixed long ago; a few as mentioned by others still remain, but are far from game-breaking for most people. Is it very item centric - yes, but you don't HAVE TO raid to get what you need. Is it relatively easy to learn - again, yes - my 4 year old nephew plays with me, but that doesn't make it any less fun.
On my laptop, which has 1.5G memory and a 9600/9800 card running XP, I have no lag at all unless I'm dual boxing with my old desktop which only has 512M memmory and a 4600 card. Even on the desktop, I usually only experience lag when entering a crowded area [10+ persons at short range - like near the mailbox in the harbor]. OTOH, my nephew's POS HP with 1G memory and a dx10 card with 256M [forgot the card number] but running VISTA and on a wireless network, lags frequently in town and rarely inside an instance. So, to the OP - while your machine looks to be up to spec, your lag may be due to memory hogging Vista, dx10 driver problems or running on a wireless network [or worse yet, all three!]
Turbine has pushed out 3 fixes in just the last few weeks for the system wide lag issues they themselves acknowledge exist- their boards are full of complaints - yet people here still deny it is an issue, amazing.
Originally posted by uncus As pointed out above, if you are reading this thread because you are interesting in trying DDO - get off your ass and download the trial!
I never said people shouldn't try it - they should if they are interested. I was simply commenting on the game as a whole and in particular past mid to upper levels. Get a trial, it is free - even do one sub (it is cheap afterall with the new pricing) - but beyond a trial and part of one sub the best parts of the game are passed. Mid to end game offers mostly only content where the outcomes is nearly totally dictated by gear, static character/party traits and makeup, and random (supposedly) dice rolls with MOBs getting to play by differant rules than most players and often breaking the liberal rules they are supposed to be following.
DDO is just not a good game because, in the end, outcomes are determined before encounters even begin much more than they are determined by what a character/party does during the encounter (baring outright stupidity of course). The entire premise of the game is built on repeating the same thing (same exact thing with same MOBs in same places) over and over - if you know what is coming you prepare ahead of time and then there is nearly zero challenge in overcoming it. If you do not know what is coming then due to stuff I mentioned earlier you are in for troubles. In my opinion a good game, a game worht paying a monthly fee to play, has encounters where outcomes are based on your actions and not what gear you brought, how well you know the content, and/or how lucky you are in terms of getting the right dice roll at the right time.
DDO is a failure because it has been abandoned. Turbine was forced to use the Eberron setting by WotC, then WotC promptly moved on from Eberron and wanted to refocus on FR, while also revamping their entire rules set. Turbine itself abandoned DDO in favor of Lotro. It's sad, but that's where DDO is. At least the DDO fans have good developers even though they are a small team....other games like SWG just have complete crap for devs.
I'm hoping a new D&D MMO gets made that holds true to PnP and does not get abandoned so easily by its backers.
On my laptop, which has 1.5G memory and a 9600/9800 card running XP, I have no lag at all unless I'm dual boxing with my old desktop which only has 512M memmory and a 4600 card. Even on the desktop, I usually only experience lag when entering a crowded area [10+ persons at short range - like near the mailbox in the harbor]. OTOH, my nephew's POS HP with 1G memory and a dx10 card with 256M [forgot the card number] but running VISTA and on a wireless network, lags frequently in town and rarely inside an instance. So, to the OP - while your machine looks to be up to spec, your lag may be due to memory hogging Vista, dx10 driver problems or running on a wireless network [or worse yet, all three!]
Turbine has pushed out 3 fixes in just the last few weeks for the system wide lag issues they themselves acknowledge exist- their boards are full of complaints - yet people here still deny it is an issue, amazing.
Duh! They accidentally created a bug which caused a lot of lag when patching an exploit. They fixed it in about 10 days. That lag has been gone for at least 2-3 weeks. It is no longer an issue, nor was it an issue before that patch. If you are actually experiencing lag - and not just trolling - it's on your end. I would never deny that you have issues.
DDO is a failure because it has been abandoned. Turbine was forced to use the Eberron setting by WotC, then WotC promptly moved on from Eberron and wanted to refocus on FR, while also revamping their entire rules set. Turbine itself abandoned DDO in favor of Lotro. It's sad, but that's where DDO is. At least the DDO fans have good developers even though they are a small team....other games like SWG just have complete crap for devs. I'm hoping a new D&D MMO gets made that holds true to PnP and does not get abandoned so easily by its backers.
I would have to respectfully disagree that it has been abandoned. Ryzom was abandoned, Horizons was abandoned, DDO is still being updated and has completely NEW material coming out on a fairly regular basis [which was always Turbine's strength - all the back to AC]. Hell, AC2 was abandoned - by Turbine, even! DDO is a small population game, but either it has enough subs to keep running or LOTRO is doing so well that Turbine doesn't mind supporting DDO [not likely the case - see AC2!]
I will agree that I'd also love to see another MMO that uses the D&D, or better yet, d20 ruleset. Best would be a game that let you create a d20 character that could shuttle between genres - fantasy today, wild west tomorrow, space opera the next day, modern but with magic [ala Shadowrun] after that. While Turbine no doubt has a lock on the D&D trademark [for how long?], d20 is open source...
Didnt read the whole thread, but from the get go I think the OPs point is in need of clarification.
The real problem is not the bugs that give mobs an unfair advantage, but rather the development team's attitude in this regard. Whenever a bug pops up that favors the players, they pull out the ban stick and put together a "hotfix" (which in turn usually crashes the game for a week or so and has to be hotfixed in turn).
On the other hand, bugs have been in the game since beta that allow mobs to do things they shouldn't be able to. Devs even acknowledge some of these problems, but they wont fix them because its would take away from the time they could spend cooking up the next player nerf.
Some people complain that DDO isn't enough like D+D, but for anyone who has played with a vindictive and nonsensical DM, the experiences are all too alike.
- The server merges make population just healthy enough to find groups although at higher levels it becomes a game of 'who has a cleric'.
Nonsense, even at the very highest levels you can do just about anything without a cleric, with the possible exception of raids. In fact many people can solo the highest content in the game w/o any real problem, even melee classes.
- This is still nowhere near close to an MMO and ultimately its greatest failure is that it is sold as one.
Guess this totally depends on what you're looking for. For me it's just fine as an MMO and is better quality than the vast majority of them out there.
More than anything the game is worse now about being random than it was way back when. MOBs are insanely inflated because players are insanely geared.
I have never found this to be the case. I have 6 characters, all over level 10, and 2 characters at level 6. Never had a problem with the mob difficulty except when trying to solo content on "elite" (which is do-able but very hard, even with the best gear available at the character's level)
The MOBs regularly 'cheat' casting spells through walls and floors with no line of site or even proximity, MOBs that are KD'd attack and move,
Hmmm... I have to be honest, I've never been casted on 'through a wall' by any mob in the game. I have been casted on from mobs that look like they're around corners when zoomed out but if you zoom in you can see them. Absolutely have never been attacked through a floor either. Please cite an example where this happened to you?
MOBs that are paralyzed attack and move
Known issue, caused by server-side lag. Though they don't usually attack, they do move for a while until the server realizes they're paralyzed/held/etc. Annoying but hardly game-breaking.
- in short the MOBs and players play by different sets of rules and it is a pitiful excuse for a game in this regard.
Nope, they don't. I explained why above.
Most outcomes (particularly at higher levels) are the result of random circumstances, or not so random in favor of MOBs if you get what I mean, rather than player skill. With all action being exactly the same everytime you do it the only real skill is in preparing beforehand no so much in the actual doing. To me, more than any other failing, this is what makes DDO such a bad game.
Gonna have to have you cite an example here. Because depending on group makeup and tactics used in dungeons I've always been able to find multiple ways to complete quests. I can do the same quest a dozen times and find different ways to tackle it each time. Many players INTENTIONALLY always use the same tactic because they are used to it or feel it's the best method... but I can't think of a single adventure where there is 'only 1 way' to win. And it certainly does fall back on PLAYER skill in many cases or, at least, players knowledge of what weapons/equipment or spells to have ready for the adventure. It certainly isn't the result of 'random circumstances'.
I just left a dungeon where a MOB was randomly casting hold spells on players 4 and 5 rooms away with, of course, no line of site and well outside any reasonable proximity - he even was casting on players on different levels of the dungeon (i.e. downstairs).
What dungeon? And did you petition it? The GM's are very good about responding if something wacky like this happens. I have *never* had this happen in my time playing DDO.
Then he would run on over and beat them down 'till dead. Call me a baby but I don't see how a game is even a game when things you cannot see, cannot react to, cannot attack or defend against can freeze you and then come kill you. And it happens allot -
Like I said, cite examples and state what happened when/if you petitioned it. "A dungeon" is not specific and I have a hard time believing it since I've played every dungeon and outdoor zone currently in the game. I've never encountered the behaviour you are describing. Ever.
the AI simply gets so many built in cheats trying to desperately create some difficulty to what is otherwise and incredibly easy game it is laughable. Unlimited mana, chain casting with little to know cooldowns, nearly impossible to interup, ridiculous saves that even as high as they are are obvious not randomly decided at that, etc, etc.
No, saves definitely are randomly decided, even for the AI. Though many do have very strong saves against certain things. Caster mobs, for example, get much better saves than melee mobs. Just like players, in general. If they didn't have a random die roll (AD&D rules, remember?) then you'd either ALWAYS land spells or NEVER land spells, and that's just never been the case in my experience. Though some mobs do have immunities to various types of spells. And other mobs have very strong magical resistances that you have to penetrate before they even have to save (drow leap to mind). But your statement about saves is just silly. Even at the very highest levels (16 bard) I can land spells on any mob I try to except some very few boss mobs that are immune to magic.
On top of that the servers run so poorly it is hard to believe this is a pay to play game. Constant and persistent lag is a widespread problem affecting entire parties. How can a game where no more than 6 people, excepting raids, play together lag so badly that it regularly becomes a stuttering slideshow and is often impossible to accurately tell your position in relation to MOBs during melee. Given that everything in the game and everywhere is instanced this is absolutely inexcusable.
Absolutely agree and this is the one thing that could really negatively impact the game in the long run. The wierd thing is that every time they've had a patch to try to fix it it seems to only get worse.
stuff
Many of your arguments are flawed. I have never once, nor has anyone in my guild (I asked before posting this) encountered many of the issues you are stating. You claim many things but out of 20 people I communicated with (everyone in my guild that was online and active) all of them stated that your claims about mob AI and 'cheating' are innaccurate. About the only time we've seen behavior anything like what you're describing is during lag spikes when things 'warp' around a bit. But never through walls or floors or ceilings as you have claimed. There were some issues like that a while back but it was due to a 'bad patch day' and was quickly fixed.
I do agree with your statements on server/game PERFORMANCE, however. That is absolutely correct and spot-on.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I am still trying to figure out why this guy has so much trouble with beholder? Just ran VON 2 today, I never have trouble staying outside Beholders visual range without them casting on me.......Now if you attack them you get their aggro but you can still hide behind walls, used to do it all the time in Threnal with the 1st Beholder you have to kill in the long line of rooms, shoot step to the side to dodge ray, step back out, shoot, ect... works like a charm.
His complaint about beholders is pseudo valid, in that they should be using an anti-magic ray, I believe, instead of a zone. Regardless, the zone makes a beholder encounter much more challenging (as a beholder should be), and a ray would be pretty easy to exploit the AI and make every beholder a breeze.
His complaint about beholders is pseudo valid, in that they should be using an anti-magic ray, I believe, instead of a zone. Regardless, the zone makes a beholder encounter much more challenging (as a beholder should be), and a ray would be pretty easy to exploit the AI and make every beholder a breeze.
Ahh see the impression I got was it was hold, ect. Yea if it's about the anti-magic that will effect you so long as you are in front of it, but that in itself is not deadly.....
The other problem with beholders in general is that the antimagic should suppress magical effects, not dispel them as it currently does.
While I will fully acknowledge the variance from the rules on this, and the issue some have with it...I just don't have a problem with it. I think beholders ended up (as is) being exactly the right level of challenge that they should, which to me is ultimately what's important.
The other problem with beholders in general is that the antimagic should suppress magical effects, not dispel them as it currently does.
While annoying to re-buff, ect. after a Beholder fight as Vincenz said I personally don't have a problem with it. I also realize some deviation is sometimes necissary due to coding, ect. and can live with a few changes.
Well the obvious problem is that many of the encounters are set up with the idea in mind that players will have many different buffs running. That combined with the limited resources in a game like DDO make the constant dispelling of beholders just silly. Not to mention beholders used to be a place for high save melee characters to shine...paladins (which are all to often scorned in favor of other melees) used to be able to run out and kill as many beholders as the game could produce. Then they had to add enervate, which did nothing to beholder encounters except make them less fun.
Are you guys honestly in favor of the enervate addition to beholders? I understand if you like the game and all, but when you say things are balanced or appropriate that pretty much eveyone I've grouped with would agree do nothing but make the game annoying, I have to wonder how honest you're being.
Edit: Also keep in mind the dispel vs. supress isn't a coding problem - they already have spells in the game that do supression.
Exactly, I mean love or hate the game few people I talk to about these things either don't dislike them or not even know about them. For instance, take the rogue character. Rogues disable traps and such but there entire ability to do so has NOTHING to do with any action on their part - it is all a dice roll. Clicky the toolbar to search and the server decides if you find the disabling mechanism, click the use button to disable and the server decides if you disable it or not. The entire scenario, often a rather important part of a party getting through a dungeon or getting through without lots of trouble, is determined solely without player skill, entirely by things the rogue had or didn't have prior to the encounter ever starting. This kind of thing is pervasive throughout the whole game in a number of different ways.
Beholders are just one example but really no more so than other high end MOBs, I just recalled the one in Threnal cast PK from a ridiculous distance down a very, very long tunnel that winds and winds making LOS impossible even if the game let you see that far which it doesn't. It can be the mummy i mentioned in the quest over in the desert or any number of other MOBs. The fact of the matter is that in DDO much of the outcome is determined either completely randomly, and the randomness of rolls is seriously questionable, or simply a matter of what your character is or has and not what you do with him. If you like this then fine, this is the game for you - but I think that despite the game's many enhancements since launch this remaining circumstance is the reason it fails to attract much of an audience. People want to PLAY games not watch the server animate the results based on background rolls and such, they want actions to determine outcomes not templates and gear and other such static things.
Comments
Actually if you are literally saying you got a message that "you were killed by something" I think that is a known bug where you somehow (through jump, beholder telekenesis, or knockdown/up/back) manage to break out of some part of the landscape geometry and end up "falling" to your death.
Traps and certain attacks from bosses will generate that in your combat log. I belive stat damage or death from diease might also cause the "killed by something", besides fallign damage.
I see "You were killed by something" freguently. I can also tell what it was that killed me when i've recieved that message.
What won't you apologize away? LOL, I still have 3 or 4 days left in my sub - care to meet me and be proven dead wrong inside 10 minute? I can easily zip to Threnal and show you the beholder casting PKs around corners and through walls and from 2 to 4 times the actual range it should be able to cast. I can easily take you to the Desert and show you the mummy that casts hold from 4 to 5 rooms away then wanders over and beats you down while you are powerless to act in any way. As for the lag issue - please - this is so widespread and universal that not hardly a group doesn't complain about it and acknowledge it - even Turbine has claimed to have issues two patches to fix a problem you deny even exists. Sad that you have to deny reality to defend the game, as I said it has many good qualities but being a real game challenge over mid level is not one of them and the cheating MOB thing is pretty obvious to anyone who plays the game and is even remotely familiar with the D&D ruleset and DDO rules.
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Beholders have a very long visual range, which considering they are a big eyeball, seems fair enough. If you trigger a death attack it isn't a beam so will based on a LOS on casting, which would allow you to be around a corner. But to be honest if you go up against a BH without a deathblock item on you are sort of asking to get your arse kicked.
Same goes for a Mummy, if you don't have some seriously impressive rolls you need to get yourself a fear immunity item (Reaver's Ring) or you are going to end up feared and dead.
Every other fantasy MMO does basic LOS checks, that is why you get hit through walls and arrows, spells whatever curve through the air and home in on your position. The fact they don't in DDO is very impressive, so the fact it does a LOS on certain spells and for most you are able to use walls is really a massive credit to the engine.
You won't convince me the Turbine engine isn't the best for this sort of thing, even the much vaunted AoC engine, is just LOS on click and will quite happily shoot you through walls, other players and bend in mid-air if you move while the projectile is in flight.
I think that is why I have a big problem with your bellyaching you have chosen the best engine for projectile/spell pathing to come and rubbish, when just about any other MMO doesn't even try to do it correctly.
I suggest you go try another MMO and pay real close attention to how well they do it, see how many spells and projectiles you can dodge, how many times you can put yourself in the way of something aimed at someone else when it is in flight. I wish you luck because they are generally noddy crap at it.
p.s. I have done Invaders solo several times and I know Beholders very well, you just have to accept doesn't matter how well you plan, if you get unlucky they can fry you on the spot, but all but their dispel and death spells will be blocked by the scenery. I wouldn't even take on a Mummy without a fear immunity item, would be instant death.
Meet you ingame 10 mintues from posting? You're proving my point by making that statement. You even use "lol" in a sentence, and expect us to take you seriously?!?!
Only an idiot would come to these forums and accuse *ME* of being an ignorant fanboi. I believe there's still a good thread with me ranting about the patch that was to fix the AI which inadvertantly broke something on Turbine's end, and it was fixed. Fail at reading comprehension much?
Are you here to troll the forums 'cs the only quality of life you enjoy exists in videogames?
More excuses and apologies for blatant flaws. Beholders cannot see around corners and through walls, or they are not supposed to. No line of site means no line of sight regardless of how far you can see. AS for the idea that a video game makes ANY sense whatsoever having MOBs that regularly cast death spells on you before you are even close to a range at which you can react to them give me a break. That is precisely the point - they have had to buff MOBs so ridiculously because the base game is so laughably easy that it is now very much broken in terms of providing no real challenge in terms of outcomes being about what you do during the encounter.
And the mummy hold spell is despair, not fear. Nevertheless, having it cast on you from across the dungeon when you are nowhere in range is ludicrous. And you comment about immunity precisely demonstrates my point about why the game is a failure - it is about what you bring to the fight not what you do during the fight.
Meet you ingame 10 mintues from posting? You're proving my point by making that statement. You even use "lol" in a sentence, and expect us to take you seriously?!?!
Only an idiot would come to these forums and accuse *ME* of being an ignorant fanboi. I believe there's still a good thread with me ranting about the patch that was to fix the AI which inadvertantly broke something on Turbine's end, and it was fixed. Fail at reading comprehension much?
Are you here to troll the forums 'cs the only quality of life you enjoy exists in videogames?
Sorry you don't want to take me up on my offer to prove exactly what I am saying - it seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do in the face of people denying the facts. As for all your personal attacks, it must be sad to want to counter and argument so badly yet only be able to muster childish personal attacks.
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Just post a SS or better yet, xfire now supports video capture. You could then upload that to xfire or youtube.
I personally don't care. The trial is there for anyone to see for themselves if they like the game. I would tell anyone who reads this thread that try the trial if your thinking about playing the game. Don't go by what people on these forums say, who knows you may like the game, and you may not.
I personally haven't had the problems the OP states, but that's just me.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
I wasn't changing weapons or autoattacking or anything. Just running around the vale meleeing stuff with my pally and hitting the occasional cure mod which wouldn't fire maybe a quarter of the time. Just annoying.
I know DDO's engine does a lot more than WoW's, but I think that it has a lot of room for improvement. The fact that it can't handle even the typical 12 person raid very gracefully speaks to that. I have seen terrible lag in that big battle beyond the door we used to fireball in TS for instance.... there are just too many mobs and players interacting at the same time and the DDO engine can't handle it. I think if they improve the engine/data transfer to the point where it can handle full 12 person+mob groups with almost no lag that it would go a long way toward improving the whole general lag "feel" to the game.
See that is what I find interesting I do at least 2 full 12 man raids a week (normally Reaver and Shroud) and I don't get lag, at least nothing I have noticed. Maybe it is a US thing.
Happy to go through settings, frame rates (my machine is pretty ancient, so I am sure yours will be higher) and locations see if I get the same results, and are just not noticing.
I assume you are not suffering from the shearing problem where it feels like your characters leg and body are not quite moving in sync., and your forward movement sort of stutters. I posted the fix for it in another thread.
I rarely have lag and it's usually nothing more then a 1 second lag spike - maybe 2 or 3 times a week? The whole party tends to comment on it: "Woah, nice lag spike!"
The game plays VERY smooth for me since they fixed that issue a few weeks ago.
p.s. The typical hitching I experiance is due to a corrupt XP service pack install on a partioned RAID+0 and inabilty to defrag, but I have work arounds.
(fresh install coming this week)
On my laptop, which has 1.5G memory and a 9600/9800 card running XP, I have no lag at all unless I'm dual boxing with my old desktop which only has 512M memmory and a 4600 card. Even on the desktop, I usually only experience lag when entering a crowded area [10+ persons at short range - like near the mailbox in the harbor]. OTOH, my nephew's POS HP with 1G memory and a dx10 card with 256M [forgot the card number] but running VISTA and on a wireless network, lags frequently in town and rarely inside an instance. So, to the OP - while your machine looks to be up to spec, your lag may be due to memory hogging Vista, dx10 driver problems or running on a wireless network [or worse yet, all three!]
As pointed out above, if you are reading this thread because you are interesting in trying DDO - get off your ass and download the trial! Most of the issues that the OP mentions wre fixed long ago; a few as mentioned by others still remain, but are far from game-breaking for most people. Is it very item centric - yes, but you don't HAVE TO raid to get what you need. Is it relatively easy to learn - again, yes - my 4 year old nephew plays with me, but that doesn't make it any less fun.
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Turbine has pushed out 3 fixes in just the last few weeks for the system wide lag issues they themselves acknowledge exist- their boards are full of complaints - yet people here still deny it is an issue, amazing.
I never said people shouldn't try it - they should if they are interested. I was simply commenting on the game as a whole and in particular past mid to upper levels. Get a trial, it is free - even do one sub (it is cheap afterall with the new pricing) - but beyond a trial and part of one sub the best parts of the game are passed. Mid to end game offers mostly only content where the outcomes is nearly totally dictated by gear, static character/party traits and makeup, and random (supposedly) dice rolls with MOBs getting to play by differant rules than most players and often breaking the liberal rules they are supposed to be following.
DDO is just not a good game because, in the end, outcomes are determined before encounters even begin much more than they are determined by what a character/party does during the encounter (baring outright stupidity of course). The entire premise of the game is built on repeating the same thing (same exact thing with same MOBs in same places) over and over - if you know what is coming you prepare ahead of time and then there is nearly zero challenge in overcoming it. If you do not know what is coming then due to stuff I mentioned earlier you are in for troubles. In my opinion a good game, a game worht paying a monthly fee to play, has encounters where outcomes are based on your actions and not what gear you brought, how well you know the content, and/or how lucky you are in terms of getting the right dice roll at the right time.
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DDO is a failure because it has been abandoned. Turbine was forced to use the Eberron setting by WotC, then WotC promptly moved on from Eberron and wanted to refocus on FR, while also revamping their entire rules set. Turbine itself abandoned DDO in favor of Lotro. It's sad, but that's where DDO is. At least the DDO fans have good developers even though they are a small team....other games like SWG just have complete crap for devs.
I'm hoping a new D&D MMO gets made that holds true to PnP and does not get abandoned so easily by its backers.
Turbine has pushed out 3 fixes in just the last few weeks for the system wide lag issues they themselves acknowledge exist- their boards are full of complaints - yet people here still deny it is an issue, amazing.
Duh! They accidentally created a bug which caused a lot of lag when patching an exploit. They fixed it in about 10 days. That lag has been gone for at least 2-3 weeks. It is no longer an issue, nor was it an issue before that patch. If you are actually experiencing lag - and not just trolling - it's on your end. I would never deny that you have issues.
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I will agree that I'd also love to see another MMO that uses the D&D, or better yet, d20 ruleset. Best would be a game that let you create a d20 character that could shuttle between genres - fantasy today, wild west tomorrow, space opera the next day, modern but with magic [ala Shadowrun] after that. While Turbine no doubt has a lock on the D&D trademark [for how long?], d20 is open source...
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i've not experienced the levels that all these problems supposedly occur on, so I can't say much
about it, but I'm wondering if the OP has mentioned these problems to Turbine tech? If so what
was their response?
Didnt read the whole thread, but from the get go I think the OPs point is in need of clarification.
The real problem is not the bugs that give mobs an unfair advantage, but rather the development team's attitude in this regard. Whenever a bug pops up that favors the players, they pull out the ban stick and put together a "hotfix" (which in turn usually crashes the game for a week or so and has to be hotfixed in turn).
On the other hand, bugs have been in the game since beta that allow mobs to do things they shouldn't be able to. Devs even acknowledge some of these problems, but they wont fix them because its would take away from the time they could spend cooking up the next player nerf.
Some people complain that DDO isn't enough like D+D, but for anyone who has played with a vindictive and nonsensical DM, the experiences are all too alike.
Nonsense, even at the very highest levels you can do just about anything without a cleric, with the possible exception of raids. In fact many people can solo the highest content in the game w/o any real problem, even melee classes.
Guess this totally depends on what you're looking for. For me it's just fine as an MMO and is better quality than the vast majority of them out there.
I have never found this to be the case. I have 6 characters, all over level 10, and 2 characters at level 6. Never had a problem with the mob difficulty except when trying to solo content on "elite" (which is do-able but very hard, even with the best gear available at the character's level)
Hmmm... I have to be honest, I've never been casted on 'through a wall' by any mob in the game. I have been casted on from mobs that look like they're around corners when zoomed out but if you zoom in you can see them. Absolutely have never been attacked through a floor either. Please cite an example where this happened to you?
Known issue, caused by server-side lag. Though they don't usually attack, they do move for a while until the server realizes they're paralyzed/held/etc. Annoying but hardly game-breaking.
Nope, they don't. I explained why above.
Gonna have to have you cite an example here. Because depending on group makeup and tactics used in dungeons I've always been able to find multiple ways to complete quests. I can do the same quest a dozen times and find different ways to tackle it each time. Many players INTENTIONALLY always use the same tactic because they are used to it or feel it's the best method... but I can't think of a single adventure where there is 'only 1 way' to win. And it certainly does fall back on PLAYER skill in many cases or, at least, players knowledge of what weapons/equipment or spells to have ready for the adventure. It certainly isn't the result of 'random circumstances'.
What dungeon? And did you petition it? The GM's are very good about responding if something wacky like this happens. I have *never* had this happen in my time playing DDO.
Like I said, cite examples and state what happened when/if you petitioned it. "A dungeon" is not specific and I have a hard time believing it since I've played every dungeon and outdoor zone currently in the game. I've never encountered the behaviour you are describing. Ever.
No, saves definitely are randomly decided, even for the AI. Though many do have very strong saves against certain things. Caster mobs, for example, get much better saves than melee mobs. Just like players, in general. If they didn't have a random die roll (AD&D rules, remember?) then you'd either ALWAYS land spells or NEVER land spells, and that's just never been the case in my experience. Though some mobs do have immunities to various types of spells. And other mobs have very strong magical resistances that you have to penetrate before they even have to save (drow leap to mind). But your statement about saves is just silly. Even at the very highest levels (16 bard) I can land spells on any mob I try to except some very few boss mobs that are immune to magic.
Absolutely agree and this is the one thing that could really negatively impact the game in the long run. The wierd thing is that every time they've had a patch to try to fix it it seems to only get worse.
Many of your arguments are flawed. I have never once, nor has anyone in my guild (I asked before posting this) encountered many of the issues you are stating. You claim many things but out of 20 people I communicated with (everyone in my guild that was online and active) all of them stated that your claims about mob AI and 'cheating' are innaccurate. About the only time we've seen behavior anything like what you're describing is during lag spikes when things 'warp' around a bit. But never through walls or floors or ceilings as you have claimed. There were some issues like that a while back but it was due to a 'bad patch day' and was quickly fixed.
I do agree with your statements on server/game PERFORMANCE, however. That is absolutely correct and spot-on.
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I am still trying to figure out why this guy has so much trouble with beholder? Just ran VON 2 today, I never have trouble staying outside Beholders visual range without them casting on me.......Now if you attack them you get their aggro but you can still hide behind walls, used to do it all the time in Threnal with the 1st Beholder you have to kill in the long line of rooms, shoot step to the side to dodge ray, step back out, shoot, ect... works like a charm.
His complaint about beholders is pseudo valid, in that they should be using an anti-magic ray, I believe, instead of a zone. Regardless, the zone makes a beholder encounter much more challenging (as a beholder should be), and a ray would be pretty easy to exploit the AI and make every beholder a breeze.
Ahh see the impression I got was it was hold, ect. Yea if it's about the anti-magic that will effect you so long as you are in front of it, but that in itself is not deadly.....
The other problem with beholders in general is that the antimagic should suppress magical effects, not dispel them as it currently does.
While I will fully acknowledge the variance from the rules on this, and the issue some have with it...I just don't have a problem with it. I think beholders ended up (as is) being exactly the right level of challenge that they should, which to me is ultimately what's important.
While annoying to re-buff, ect. after a Beholder fight as Vincenz said I personally don't have a problem with it. I also realize some deviation is sometimes necissary due to coding, ect. and can live with a few changes.
Well the obvious problem is that many of the encounters are set up with the idea in mind that players will have many different buffs running. That combined with the limited resources in a game like DDO make the constant dispelling of beholders just silly. Not to mention beholders used to be a place for high save melee characters to shine...paladins (which are all to often scorned in favor of other melees) used to be able to run out and kill as many beholders as the game could produce. Then they had to add enervate, which did nothing to beholder encounters except make them less fun.
Are you guys honestly in favor of the enervate addition to beholders? I understand if you like the game and all, but when you say things are balanced or appropriate that pretty much eveyone I've grouped with would agree do nothing but make the game annoying, I have to wonder how honest you're being.
Edit: Also keep in mind the dispel vs. supress isn't a coding problem - they already have spells in the game that do supression.
Exactly, I mean love or hate the game few people I talk to about these things either don't dislike them or not even know about them. For instance, take the rogue character. Rogues disable traps and such but there entire ability to do so has NOTHING to do with any action on their part - it is all a dice roll. Clicky the toolbar to search and the server decides if you find the disabling mechanism, click the use button to disable and the server decides if you disable it or not. The entire scenario, often a rather important part of a party getting through a dungeon or getting through without lots of trouble, is determined solely without player skill, entirely by things the rogue had or didn't have prior to the encounter ever starting. This kind of thing is pervasive throughout the whole game in a number of different ways.
Beholders are just one example but really no more so than other high end MOBs, I just recalled the one in Threnal cast PK from a ridiculous distance down a very, very long tunnel that winds and winds making LOS impossible even if the game let you see that far which it doesn't. It can be the mummy i mentioned in the quest over in the desert or any number of other MOBs. The fact of the matter is that in DDO much of the outcome is determined either completely randomly, and the randomness of rolls is seriously questionable, or simply a matter of what your character is or has and not what you do with him. If you like this then fine, this is the game for you - but I think that despite the game's many enhancements since launch this remaining circumstance is the reason it fails to attract much of an audience. People want to PLAY games not watch the server animate the results based on background rolls and such, they want actions to determine outcomes not templates and gear and other such static things.
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