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Cricle Strafing/Bunny Hopping in MMORPGs good or bad ... exploit or legal ... Skillful or stupid.
XApotheosisX
Member Posts: 277
As i read another forum for Warhammer online I have seen a huge debate as of late over the topic of Circle Straffing and Bunny hopping.
Some say its a skillful legit tactic and those that complain need to learn to play others say its a borderline exploit that dumbs down the combat in a RPG.
your thoughts?
Comments
I don't understand why everyone wants player skill to be involved, usually these games are about character development and ones knowledge of the game so I like those things to factor into combat more. I guess that's why I liked Eve pvp and hated Warcraft's pvp.
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Circle strafing / Bunny hopping , or more popularly known in MMO world as Lolcoptering
Is a bastard child of World of Warcraft.
WOW as now many label it , is a MMORPG for non MMORPG players. It brought with itself many gamers from diferent genres , many of them not having no prior background in RPG or strategy gaming - but Counter Strike and Tekken
So when Lolcoptering first started , WOW developers instead of putting functionality that prevents it, thought it was very special and encouraged it.
... I can understand his comming from WOW developers. But than everyone started copying WOW , and so the Age of Lolcoptering was upon us.
Lolcoptering is not a bad thing. It is quite fun and skilled thing to do. If you are playing Team Fortress 2 or Unreal Tournament. Although even most modern FPS are trying to prevent it (Call of duty,Battlefield)
mmoRPG are games that are soposed to be about strategic use of skills , character progression , items - if this can be counteracted by hopping around , than something is wrong.
But since WOW developers thought its CUTE
we are stuck with it
I assume your talking about being able to use your special attacks while on the run. I never even imagined a game would allow you to do something like that until a friend told me that WoW lets you do it. My jaw just about hit the ground. That is absolutely ridiculous and totally stupid. And that's the most positive thing I can say on the subject.
Let's try and at least emulate real combat here. Melee combat involves planting your feet firmly, digging in and facing your enemy. It's hard enough to hit your target in critical areas when you are up close and personal. To be able to do it while dancing around would be almost impossble.
And let's face it, if melee classes can do that and casters have to stand still while casting spells, that puts casters at a distinct disadvantage. Now if you let casters conjure on the run, that's different, but that is just as stupid as letting fighters attack on the run.
a good idea to prohibit that function would be to give everyone a button to mash, if someone hops around and they are in mid air they are stunned for 6 seconds that way you either fight with the skills you gain progressively or run away. This could affect only a small radius though for fairness.
a stamina bar that depletes as you run and jump. when it runs out, you become fatigued as it restores itself. could that work?
Solution is simple as beans : Skills can not be executed while moving
Jumping around in circles while attacking is just plain stupid and illogical to the level that it's annoying. Why should casters be forced to stand still - and often also have to face the target - while m
While i do not like bunnyhoping and circle strafing in any game.......if you can do it in a game its a feature.
In wow it was really annoying as a rogue trying to back stab....
The idea of not moving when using a skill is horrible though, this would slow down combat more, and people would just run away. I think a stamina solution where you do less damage when turning is a better option. (glancing blow)
Casters should not have to stand still either...simple solution remove casters.
You are correct that WoW bridged the gap between main stream and rpgs, and what that tells me is want more subscribers remove more rpg. (levels grinds) My first mmo was not a rpg and I would not be here today if my first mmo was WoW.
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I like to develop my character in an MMORPG. If I want to circle strafe and bunny hop I'll play a shooter.
I like to develop my character in an MMORPG. If I want to circle strafe and bunny hop I'll play a shooter.
Neither should even be possible. I'm all for games simulating enhanced human capabilities, but nobody could come close to running around in circles and hopping like an idiot like they can in most video games.
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
If you dumb down combat enough its all about who has the strongest char regardless of your own skills. In other words: the player who has invested the most time into the char will win. This may seem fair but in MMOs playing mostly means repetition. Its about doing the same thing again and again. The one who does this the longest has the best char. If player skill is invloved I can compensate for the grind of other people. I do not want to lose a fight because my opponent has killed 100000 more wolves than me (especially since I have already killed 100 of them and have shown that I can kill them easily). As long as the current grinding systems are in place I want player skill to be a factor. Its frustrating to lose a game of chess because my opponent has practised to move a figure from one square to another 234234 times which has nothing to do with strategy.
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I'm too old to fight a teenager that will have better reflexes and coordination, so I hate bunny hopping
actually dumbing down combat is using a method repeatedly that doesnt progress, no progress = retard.
imo... running in circles and jumping like a tard isnt skill, its noob. thats one reason i loved the /stick command in daoc (altho alot of people hate it). cuz it forced people to fight toe to toe. if you had to get away from someone then you had to stun / mez / slow / sprint away. whatever was avalible for your class, sprint, or just dont let them get that close if your a ranged class. ya know... actually use your brain an the skills your character has. example, pvp in WoW is a joke at best. i always found it retarded that toons can run thru you, jump over your head, jump repeatedly in armor you would be lucky to get 2 inches off the ground if you had it on.. with no loss of stamina. while casters have to stand in one spot while casting can be interupted. jumping around should = huge stamina loss that would = not being able to use skills.
I like them because I hate pvp when you stand still next to eachother a press buttons, sooooo and boring like WAR looks like.
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Talking about SWG much?
It should be a combonation of who developed there character the most, and who has the best skills/timing to utilize a fully developed character. Oh, throw ridiculous gear on top of that too. Nobody likes to fight God. So, usually they just run away, or don't even show up to the battlefield in the first place. Then God gets really lonely and has noone to fight.
I agree. Loved /stick in DAoC.
WAR looks good to me. Hopefully it will have fun combat.
I agree with gorguk if they are gonna act retarded then at least give the noobs weight + stamina penalties.
I dont find free movement in combat negative at all. I enjoy building my character but i also like to measure my personal skill against others, therefor i enjoy mmo's with free combat movement. Fast combat is fun and i'm grateful towards these games. Not all games are for u to like and sorry if u can't enjoy one of the new mmo's, just get another game or adapt to the game, just plz stop whining about it. <-- Not towards OP.
everyone would like free everything but free comes with a repercussion-- like wearing metal armor and running out of breath.
Sometimes i miss UO. the combat was great. to bad it looks so terrible now lol.
well WAR wont have /stick but thank god for collision detection. no having someone run thru you as if they are a ghost to get away to attack from behind. but tell ya what most of my friends feel the same as i do an i will make it a point to have me an my group gank anyone thats jumping around all the time like a tard. hell the way i see it they are just jumping around saying hey pick me! im here! kill me!! lolol.
Imo positional movement and jumping have their place in MMORPGs... they add action and dynamics to a game.
However it is WoW that did it badly and people get all riled up because it is hard to imagine that something WoW did can be improved.
I feel WAR is on the right track there - jumping drains your action points and you get knocked down if you collide with somebody while in mid-air. You can jump but it's risky and costly. If you want to try to show off - go ahead but don't come back crying if you get punched into the ground.
If it were up to me I'd even place some bonuses on certain moves while jumping. For example you get a 1.5 x bonus to damage if you swing your 2 handed sword in mid-air but if you get hit while doing it you get automatically thrown to the ground and stunned for 3 seconds.
Basically - I'd make it that the space bar = extra effort version of the skill. If, while casting a spell you press space bar you do some extra complex moves and crap but you get extra vulnerable for duration. Shield bash while pressing the space bar means you try to knock down your opponent as well - if you fail you get knocked down. Things like that.
This might make combat too action oriented for some but hey.. I'm talking about my personal preferences and that's what I'd like MY mmo to feel like. I know that this isn't for everyone and it's cool, we're different individuals after all.
As for strafing.... Make strafing movement 50% slower than normal movement and that's it. You can still try to outmanoeuver your opponent and yet it won't look like two wasps fighting. Add in collision detection and everything's fine.
I like the way WoW has it actually, so much so that I can't play any game that does not allow me to attack while moving.
Bunny hoping can be really silly tough, I think jumping while moving would make you do a lunge type movement, to propel your self forward, back or to the side.
Add in rolling and diving and it would be more fun I think.
Also I don't think you should slow speed while attacking or add an accuracy/damage penalty, nor let casters cast on the fly, mobility is really the only thing melee has going for it, if casters have to stop it helps balance their massive damage and high range, and even that does not help most the time if they have rooting abilities to stop melee.
All actions would cost stamina I would think, jogging and jumping wouldn't cost much though, unless you ran full tilt for several minutes or jumped 30 times in a row. Also collision detection would be great, especially if you can use it you shove and knock people down.
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I think it looks tacky, crappy and it essentially turns pvp into a circus act.
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Bunny hopping is plain stupid, no matter if it's a FPS or a MMO.
Bottom line is: You need collision detection and stamina lost for jumping like a retard. Those 2 things are enough to regulate the stupidity of bunny hopping.
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