KingCarebear most of us are on this board are not children (in age anyway). Some of us might be children mentally. I am guessing you are roleplaying, but I'm not a big fan of religous people who say things like my sun or my children. I believe that people have the choice to play or not to play the game. Many of us like monotony and simple things. Sometimes it's fun to have your mind challenged, but if you are working hard all day many times thats not what you are looking for.
Mr. Flyte, I mean no harm when I refer to you as "my son" or "my children." When I say these things, I am trying to show love. I am trying to show affection to my darling angels who roam this forum. I love you all with all my heart and I will do everything in my power to see that you all are happy and well.
I am the King
I am the Bear.
And I Care.
And by the way, I am not roleplaying. I am being real. This is who I am. If you don't like it. I suggest you pay a visit to room 101 and dance with the Crimson King.
KingCarebear most of us are on this board are not children (in age anyway). Some of us might be children mentally. I am guessing you are roleplaying, but I'm not a big fan of religous people who say things like my sun or my children. I believe that people have the choice to play or not to play the game. Many of us like monotony and simple things. Sometimes it's fun to have your mind challenged, but if you are working hard all day many times thats not what you are looking for.
Mr. Flyte, I mean no harm when I refer to you as "my son" or "my children." When I say these things, I am trying to show love. I am trying to show affection to my darling angels who roam this forum. I love you all with all my heart and I will do everything in my power to see that you all are happy and well.
I am the King
I am the Bear.
And I Care.
And by the way, I am not roleplaying. I am being real. This is who I am. If you don't like it. I suggest you pay a visit to room 101 and dance with the Crimson King.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Babies
I love it when you refer to me as your child
It makes me all tingly inside..
It makes me feel like someone is trying to preach gospel to me. If that makes said person happy so be it, but I am not a fan of people trying to convert others to a type of belief.
Originally posted by KingCarebear Thank you for your kind words my son. I would be more inclined to write more, but as you know, I am the King of this land. I am the Carebear. I must do my job to ensure there is peace and harmony on this forum and all the forums. Once my son has been released from his prison of prisons, he shall play the role of writer, and write his song of songs. KingCarebear Lord of the Breast
Pass me the waste basket, I have to throw up. King Carebear just has that effect on me.
Look, I have played EQ 2 ever since launch, and have yet to have any character hit level cap. I feel no Pavlovian system of rewards that keep me ringing the bell.
I come home from work sometimes and just want to kill something, so I log in, join a group, and go lay waste to the land for about an hour or two. Until I've blown off steam and can actually be calm and rational with the fam.
On weekends the fam sleeps late, I am an early riser. So I cool my heals either crafting, or, if I'm more awake and bored, I go out gathering, trying to work my toon into deep shit where every mob is orange and red just to see if I can gather and not get killed.
Rather than run their treadmill, I set my own goals and objectives. You have no idea how many times I see a group advertise for a certain dungeon which I need, and I pass it by because it doesn't fit in with what I feel like doing. So I don't kill the mob boss today, so what. He'll was there yesterday, he'll be there tomorrow, the next day, the next week, the next month, the next year. No hurry. There's always another group, and always another boss to slay.
neither because Halo is rubbish. (There is a certain demographic that enjoys it though.)
Yeah see your point there, yes playing with friends much better than playing against some random online. (though it doesn't qualify your thinking process)
KingCarebear most of us are on this board are not children (in age anyway). Some of us might be children mentally. I am guessing you are roleplaying, but I'm not a big fan of religous people who say things like my sun or my children. I believe that people have the choice to play or not to play the game. Many of us like monotony and simple things. Sometimes it's fun to have your mind challenged, but if you are working hard all day many times thats not what you are looking for.
Mr. Flyte, I mean no harm when I refer to you as "my son" or "my children." When I say these things, I am trying to show love. I am trying to show affection to my darling angels who roam this forum. I love you all with all my heart and I will do everything in my power to see that you all are happy and well.
I am the King
I am the Bear.
And I Care.
And by the way, I am not roleplaying. I am being real. This is who I am. If you don't like it. I suggest you pay a visit to room 101 and dance with the Crimson King.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Babies
I love it when you refer to me as your child
It makes me all tingly inside..
I am glad I am making you happy my child. I really am. I just absolutely love it when one of my children gets that tingly feeling inside his or her little bones. It makes me very warm inside. It makes me very happy where it counts. Son, whenever you want daddy to read you a story. My lap is always open. It will always have a space for you. I love you my little Wolf.
KingCarebear most of us are on this board are not children (in age anyway). Some of us might be children mentally. I am guessing you are roleplaying, but I'm not a big fan of religous people who say things like my sun or my children. I believe that people have the choice to play or not to play the game. Many of us like monotony and simple things. Sometimes it's fun to have your mind challenged, but if you are working hard all day many times thats not what you are looking for.
Mr. Flyte, I mean no harm when I refer to you as "my son" or "my children." When I say these things, I am trying to show love. I am trying to show affection to my darling angels who roam this forum. I love you all with all my heart and I will do everything in my power to see that you all are happy and well.
I am the King
I am the Bear.
And I Care.
And by the way, I am not roleplaying. I am being real. This is who I am. If you don't like it. I suggest you pay a visit to room 101 and dance with the Crimson King.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Babies
I love it when you refer to me as your child
It makes me all tingly inside..
It makes me feel like someone is trying to preach gospel to me. If that makes said person happy so be it, but I am not a fan of people trying to convert others to a type of belief.
Flyte, son, I am not trying to preach to you. I am trying to help you. I am trying to make you smile. Can't you see that my boy? Can't you see the true meaning behind my ways. I am the King for gods sake, I AM THE KING!!!!
I have a job to do and I must do it well. I must do it, or else I will be sent to hell. Let me hold your hand my little teapot, LET ME HOLD YOUR HAND!!!!!!!
Originally posted by KingCarebear Thank you for your kind words my son. I would be more inclined to write more, but as you know, I am the King of this land. I am the Carebear. I must do my job to ensure there is peace and harmony on this forum and all the forums. Once my son has been released from his prison of prisons, he shall play the role of writer, and write his song of songs. KingCarebear Lord of the Breast
Pass me the waste basket, I have to throw up. King Carebear just has that effect on me.
Look, I have played EQ 2 ever since launch, and have yet to have any character hit level cap. I feel no Pavlovian system of rewards that keep me ringing the bell.
I come home from work sometimes and just want to kill something, so I log in, join a group, and go lay waste to the land for about an hour or two. Until I've blown off steam and can actually be calm and rational with the fam.
On weekends the fam sleeps late, I am an early riser. So I cool my heals either crafting, or, if I'm more awake and bored, I go out gathering, trying to work my toon into deep shit where every mob is orange and red just to see if I can gather and not get killed.
Rather than run their treadmill, I set my own goals and objectives. You have no idea how many times I see a group advertise for a certain dungeon which I need, and I pass it by because it doesn't fit in with what I feel like doing. So I don't kill the mob boss today, so what. He'll was there yesterday, he'll be there tomorrow, the next day, the next week, the next month, the next year. No hurry. There's always another group, and always another boss to slay.
Son, if I make you that sick I suggest you come to my room so I can give ya some of my carebear medicine. Than, after you have taken your medicine we can play a game of Braid. Than, after we finish playing you and I can get on our knees and pray to the good lord for making such a great game. Than, after we finish praying to the good lord for making such a great game we can go to Jonathan Blow's house and blow Jonathan Blow.....
I'm kidding sonny, daddy's only kidding. I would never allow you to do something so vile and vulgar.
KingCarebear most of us are on this board are not children (in age anyway). Some of us might be children mentally. I am guessing you are roleplaying, but I'm not a big fan of religous people who say things like my sun or my children. I believe that people have the choice to play or not to play the game. Many of us like monotony and simple things. Sometimes it's fun to have your mind challenged, but if you are working hard all day many times thats not what you are looking for.
Mr. Flyte, I mean no harm when I refer to you as "my son" or "my children." When I say these things, I am trying to show love. I am trying to show affection to my darling angels who roam this forum. I love you all with all my heart and I will do everything in my power to see that you all are happy and well.
I am the King
I am the Bear.
And I Care.
And by the way, I am not roleplaying. I am being real. This is who I am. If you don't like it. I suggest you pay a visit to room 101 and dance with the Crimson King.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Babies
I love it when you refer to me as your child
It makes me all tingly inside..
It makes me feel like someone is trying to preach gospel to me. If that makes said person happy so be it, but I am not a fan of people trying to convert others to a type of belief.
Flyte, son, I am not trying to preach to you. I am trying to help you. I am trying to make you smile. Can't you see that my boy? Can't you see the true meaning behind my ways. I am the King for gods sake, I AM THE KING!!!!
I have a job to do and I must do it well. I must do it, or else I will be sent to hell. Let me hold your hand my little teapot, LET ME HOLD YOUR HAND!!!!!!!
KingCarebear most of us are on this board are not children (in age anyway). Some of us might be children mentally. I am guessing you are roleplaying, but I'm not a big fan of religous people who say things like my sun or my children. I believe that people have the choice to play or not to play the game. Many of us like monotony and simple things. Sometimes it's fun to have your mind challenged, but if you are working hard all day many times thats not what you are looking for.
Mr. Flyte, I mean no harm when I refer to you as "my son" or "my children." When I say these things, I am trying to show love. I am trying to show affection to my darling angels who roam this forum. I love you all with all my heart and I will do everything in my power to see that you all are happy and well.
I am the King
I am the Bear.
And I Care.
And by the way, I am not roleplaying. I am being real. This is who I am. If you don't like it. I suggest you pay a visit to room 101 and dance with the Crimson King.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Babies
I love it when you refer to me as your child
It makes me all tingly inside..
It makes me feel like someone is trying to preach gospel to me. If that makes said person happy so be it, but I am not a fan of people trying to convert others to a type of belief.
Flyte, son, I am not trying to preach to you. I am trying to help you. I am trying to make you smile. Can't you see that my boy? Can't you see the true meaning behind my ways. I am the King for gods sake, I AM THE KING!!!!
I have a job to do and I must do it well. I must do it, or else I will be sent to hell. Let me hold your hand my little teapot, LET ME HOLD YOUR HAND!!!!!!!
Is this guy basically saying, you are paying money to get a false sense of satisfaction, endlessly using your time to get that next epic piece, and the result is that it becomes an obsession, and your social interaction with the world outside yer puter is deteriorating, and the only reason you hold a somewhat job is to keep paying for your game sub and electricity to run yer puter and housing to hold it and you to play within from sun up to sundown, does he also mean that when an expansion goes live to your mmo of choice or a major breaking update you may even miss work to be there on opening day, so ineveitably your career suffers as well in the long run, but all these facts that are stated are masked by the false sense of feeling good because your toon in some cyber land that in actuallity does nothing for you or your surroundings, or your community just got some (again false sense of importance) important upgrade in cyberland making you feel like life can wait till tomorrow, because now in can kill x in land y and recieve the dopamine rush of epic gift x. or am i just reading it all wrong. Just something to think about while the world around you goes to hell in a hambasket but you dont see it because you are blinded by the false sense of doing something, or getting something in some cyber-world, when it actually boils down to you being at fault for your surroundings going haywire, as the saying goes, those that dont help change things are just as much at fault as those caousing things to go bad.
Most of the "hardcore" that ONLY play games online don't have any friends in real life
Erm you do know part of the reason WoW is popular is because of it's 'recruit a friend' scheme, its clever marketing encouraging friends to play together. I really doubt many hardcore players lack friends, that is just being bigoted without a shred of evidence.
I edited for emphasis since you seem to have been ignoring the qualifying clause of that statement. Be honest, Which do you enjoy more?:
1) playing Halo split-screen with friends.
2) playing Halo over Xbox Live.
I'm betting that most of you are going to pick door number one. The rest of you are probably playing locked games with people that you already know in real life.
Judging from the behavior of most players in public games, I'm drawing the conclusion that that no one in their right mind would be able stay within 50 feet of these people without submitting to the primal urge to kick the little bastards directly in the balls. Of course, this isn't just an XBox Live thing as any CS:S player or Barrens chat veteran can attest.
So in conclusion, people that ONLY play games online are incapable of having any kind of real life social network due to being complete douche bags.
Show just how much u know about gaming... There was one HUGE reason why FPS didn't make it into PSX favored genre - mp problems. Split screen is second worse implementaition type of mp I've ever seen and can remember atm (1st being "limited player options" type like in some old sega game where one player was moving a robot and the other was shooting based on that same robot's location and direction (all in overtop view)). Every single console/pc game with mp worth mentioning had some way off leting people play without dividing or loosing parts of the screen. (like hot seat or "single screen"). Well, there're probably a few exeptions, where single screen is not that important, but those definitly aren't shooters. I tryed split screens many times in many games - no self respecting gamer would use those when there's a network alternative avaliable for the same game.
Ever had a decent mmorpg clan? I guess not... Nor did u get in a decent party... Yes, there are assholes playing mmos, there're assholes "showing off" their "assholeness" by throwing "lol! nOOb!" at unsuspecting victims, there're even assholes accusing online players of being assholes right here in this topic :P , but there are normal players as well, and the fact that they don't prove their existence on world chats over and over like assholes do, doesn't mean they don't exist. And the fact that u're offending gamers just cause they play over net, only shows that u're not far from those assholes.
The ones who's behavoir u disapprove, behave so out of frustration caused by real life. And here u are acting as an asshole out of frustration caused by them. And u're at least as guilty of their behavior as those who u're accusing along with them are guilty of yours. So how come u think u're any better?
Also u have a funny definition there about only plaing games online... just how far that "only" stretches? That's an easy way to offend people and then "innocently" state "I only meant people who play online 24 hours a day, and didn't mean those who do [whatever was mentionted in response]."
"That kind of reward system is very easily turned into a Pavlovian or Skinnerian scheme," he says. "It's considered best practice: schedule rewards for your player so that they don't get bored and give up on your game. That's actually exploitation."
____________________________
This is a very stupid idea. Every game uses a "carrot on a stick" system to keep players engaged. Wait! There is one game that does not use rewards to hook players. PONG!!! That is a game with pure gameplay and no rewords to exploit players.
Let's be serious here. In a game design school you are taught how to use rewards to make a game engaging. You start out with extremely easy rewards. Then as the game progresses you make rewards harder to get and gameplay more challenging. After about 5 levels or 2 hours of gameplay you make an easy level with lots of nice easy rewards and lowered difficulty. Then you start the cycle again by raising the bar for another 5 levels.
We've seen how well purely artistic games have done. Clover studios is doing so well right now after Okami, right? I can't wait for Vagrant Story 3 to come out after the smash hit of number 2. Seamen, was so awesome on the Saturn, I'm glad it came out for Wii also.
Oh wait, none of that actually happened, because those development crews went out of business.
Stating that WoW is not artistic is also extremely stupid. Everyone knows that WoW is a very artist game. It is just not the style of art everyone likes, but it is very artistic. Anyone who folloed WoW's development also knows that Blizzards focus was on providing players with lots of content WHILE promoting casual short term gameplay. They also understood that hardcore gamers were present, and their hunger could not be calmed with a bunch of quick and easy casual stuff. So they added in some gruely "carrot on a stick" features int he game also.
This formula was very successful in the old school WoW. It was not so successful after the Burning Crusade. WoW has gameplay, but they put too much focus on items and lost their way with the casual market. They are still making extremely fun instances and other gameplay features, but they have also added a ton of filler content to keep people busy, and tide some ridiculously powerful items to that content that has thrown the games itemization off the chart.
City of HEroes lacked a decent reward system. Your only rewards were badges and new powers. IT was not enough to keep players into the game. The gameplay was solid and fun, but it lacked rewards, which in turn caused players like me to quit, then resubscribe, then quit again.
The game became much more engaging when they actually added craftable items as rewards. I played for a whopping 3 months straight instead of my usual 1 month, because I wanted some of those rewards along with my fun gameplay. Does this make CoH a bad exploitive game, or a smart one that knows what is needed to succeed?
While I have never played his game, and I probably never will. I would bet its not as important as he thinks.
I do however agree 100% with this statement made by mr blow.
Developers should provide activities that interest players "rather than stringing them along with little pieces of candy so that they'll suffer through terrible game play, but keep playing because they gain levels or new items",
Rewards are fine, but some of these games just rely 100% on rewards and are lacking in real gameplay.
Less epic rewards we need more challenge, more fun.
Is this guy basically saying, you are paying money to get a false sense of satisfaction, endlessly using your time to get that next epic piece, and the result is that it becomes an obsession, and your social interaction with the world outside yer puter is deteriorating, and the only reason you hold a somewhat job is to keep paying for your game sub and electricity to run yer puter and housing to hold it and you to play within from sun up to sundown, does he also mean that when an expansion goes live to your mmo of choice or a major breaking update you may even miss work to be there on opening day, so ineveitably your career suffers as well in the long run, but all these facts that are stated are masked by the false sense of feeling good because your toon in some cyber land that in actuallity does nothing for you or your surroundings, or your community just got some (again false sense of importance) important upgrade in cyberland making you feel like life can wait till tomorrow, because now in can kill x in land y and recieve the dopamine rush of epic gift x. or am i just reading it all wrong. Just something to think about while the world around you goes to hell in a hambasket but you dont see it because you are blinded by the false sense of doing something, or getting something in some cyber-world, when it actually boils down to you being at fault for your surroundings going haywire, as the saying goes, those that dont help change things are just as much at fault as those caousing things to go bad.
Yeah, yeah... Ever seen people who were Satisfied with their life "drink themselves into oblivion"? There's always a reason behind an attempt to escape reality in the first place. And while escape is not much of a solution, it sometime becomes the only option left. U're happy with your life? Fine lead a happy life and let others live like THEY want. U aren't helping much with your "your live is withering! Turn back!" speach. You're just making it harder for others to escape reality, cause there're always people like u to remind them how bad their life is. Repeating "drinking is not the anwers!" every time u see someone drinking, isn't an answer itself. You want to help people to get on with their life? Find individuals who need that help and actualy help them solve problems that caused them to escape. Don't just push'em back and expect to suddenly handle what they failed to handle back when they "went off the path".
While I have never played his game, and I probably never will. I would bet its not as important as he thinks. I do however agree 100% with this statement made by mr blow. Developers should provide activities that interest players "rather than stringing them along with little pieces of candy so that they'll suffer through terrible game play, but keep playing because they gain levels or new items", Rewards are fine, but some of these games just rely 100% on rewards and are lacking in real gameplay. Less epic rewards we need more challenge, more fun.
Well said Mr. MarL, well said indeed. I shall give you a hug for your well stated words.
Yes you shouldn't listen to this Mr. Blow, but WOW lovers listen to Mr. T, William Shatner, and Vern Troyer. Which I think they are all really cool actors, but people listen to them and play WOW. You shouldn't like or dislike a game, because of what other people say. That goes for anything. I wanna see the Watchmen movie, but I could care less that Kevin Smith saw and liked the movie. Well thats just my 2 cents.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
So........gamers are too stupid to realize they're being screwed over by something like WoW? Gamers are too stupid to realize that Mr. T and William Shattner do not play WoW? Oh, and having fun just doesn't cut it anymore?
These posts have "America" written all over them. Let's blame everything and everyone, except ourselves!
Regardless of how well known the person is does not give any less validity to what he says. It has long been my largest issue with mmo's that they are all promise the "carrot on the stick". Even Blizzard pokes a little fun at this with one of their quest rewards which are aptly named, Carrot on a Stick. Whether or not the mechanics of wow and other mmo's are actually exploitative depends entirely on the individual. In the western world we view child labor as being morally irreprehensible, yet for the majority in the world without child labor you would have a complete breakdown of any form of society. The children there go to work in the fields and the like with their parents and come home with them. It is only in recent history that we have allowed children to have an unusually protracted childhood. I think that people affected by addictive personality disorders are more apt to view something like WoW as exploitive versus someone that can play a game like it and turn it off without a second thought.
The quest reward "Carrot On a Stick" has NOTHING to do with "poking fun." You're adding a trinket that makes your mount (hello....HORSE referrence) go faster. In other words....dangling a carrot on a stick in front of a horse, makes it go faster...it wants the carrot. Horses really LIKE carrots. Maybe you'd have understood it better if they'd named the trinket, "Horse Bait" instead?
Maybe you've never had horses. I can't believe I'm explaining this. Never thought THIS quest reward was one people would have a tough time understanding.
How do you come up with that being "poking fun" at game company promises? Wow, people tend to read in to things about anything they WANT to any more without any consideration of what was originally intended.
If a game keeps you playing, its doing something BETTER than the game that bores you in 10 minutes. How artistic it appears is meaningless. How it keeps you playing is meaningless. What it looks like is meaningless. If you keep playing, its FUN or entertaining and if its fun, its doing exactly what its designed to do. I guess some games are designed to be art. Luckily, I can't enjoy just playing art. I enjoy playing fun games.
Do people realize that the term 'carrot on a stick' actually describes a real life item used by people driving donkey carts to get the donkeys to move. they literally tied a carrot on the end of the stick and hung it in front of the donkey.
The ingame item from WOW does exactly that...it is a trinket that makes your mount move faster.
LOL .. it reads like a huge case of sour grapes from some unknown game designer making a game no one ever heard of.
I see nothing wrong with our PLEASURE center stimulated. That is what FUN is about. What does he want to do with his game? Simulate our pain centers? LOL.
If a game keeps you playing, its doing something BETTER than the game that bores you in 10 minutes. How artistic it appears is meaningless. How it keeps you playing is meaningless. What it looks like is meaningless. If you keep playing, its FUN or entertaining and if its fun, its doing exactly what its designed to do. I guess some games are designed to be art. Luckily, I can't enjoy just playing art. I enjoy playing fun games.
I agree with that. Almost every MMO these days has a carrot on a stick, but only WoW is really popular in the west. It obviously more then just dangling a carrot on a stick. They did the gameplay well and made a game that appeals to a lot of different people.
All games can be considered carrot on a stick or constant button clicking. Weather it's a game with elaborate puzzles or a simple game like WoW that mostly uses combat they all end up with you spending time repeating something over and over. To many people this is relaxing and perhaps thats what they want.
IM no WOW fan by any means but that guy is just a overblown treehugger HE strikes me as the same sort of person that would protest a toy store for selling violent toys... His big beef is games should be art and have a message tied in to teach morale fibre..yadda yadda yadda... Art is subjective and really boils down to the users perception - not the perception of a liberal dbag...
Vegetta, my son, you are a wise little rabbit. A wise little rabbit indeed. Tell me my sayain child, how is your family? How is Bulma doing? Is she well? Do you still love her? What about Trunks? How is he doing these days? And how about little Bra, is she growing up well, has she become a strong young lady?
From reading your post, I see you still have the fire in your heart. You are still the baddest man in the game. Keep doing what you do my child, keep standing strong.
Comments
Mr. Flyte, I mean no harm when I refer to you as "my son" or "my children." When I say these things, I am trying to show love. I am trying to show affection to my darling angels who roam this forum. I love you all with all my heart and I will do everything in my power to see that you all are happy and well.
I am the King
I am the Bear.
And I Care.
And by the way, I am not roleplaying. I am being real. This is who I am. If you don't like it. I suggest you pay a visit to room 101 and dance with the Crimson King.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Babies
I love it when you refer to me as your child
It makes me all tingly inside..
Mr. Flyte, I mean no harm when I refer to you as "my son" or "my children." When I say these things, I am trying to show love. I am trying to show affection to my darling angels who roam this forum. I love you all with all my heart and I will do everything in my power to see that you all are happy and well.
I am the King
I am the Bear.
And I Care.
And by the way, I am not roleplaying. I am being real. This is who I am. If you don't like it. I suggest you pay a visit to room 101 and dance with the Crimson King.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Babies
I love it when you refer to me as your child
It makes me all tingly inside..
It makes me feel like someone is trying to preach gospel to me. If that makes said person happy so be it, but I am not a fan of people trying to convert others to a type of belief.
Pass me the waste basket, I have to throw up. King Carebear just has that effect on me.
Look, I have played EQ 2 ever since launch, and have yet to have any character hit level cap. I feel no Pavlovian system of rewards that keep me ringing the bell.
I come home from work sometimes and just want to kill something, so I log in, join a group, and go lay waste to the land for about an hour or two. Until I've blown off steam and can actually be calm and rational with the fam.
On weekends the fam sleeps late, I am an early riser. So I cool my heals either crafting, or, if I'm more awake and bored, I go out gathering, trying to work my toon into deep shit where every mob is orange and red just to see if I can gather and not get killed.
Rather than run their treadmill, I set my own goals and objectives. You have no idea how many times I see a group advertise for a certain dungeon which I need, and I pass it by because it doesn't fit in with what I feel like doing. So I don't kill the mob boss today, so what. He'll was there yesterday, he'll be there tomorrow, the next day, the next week, the next month, the next year. No hurry. There's always another group, and always another boss to slay.
well fickle reasoning...
and to your question.
neither because Halo is rubbish.
(There is a certain demographic that enjoys it though.)
Yeah see your point there, yes playing with friends much better than playing against some random online. (though it doesn't qualify your thinking process)
Exactly. People who are interested in why people enjoy clicking on buttons over and over and over should study B. F. Skinner and operant conditioning.
MMORPGs are virtual skinner boxes.
http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/skinner.html
Mr. Flyte, I mean no harm when I refer to you as "my son" or "my children." When I say these things, I am trying to show love. I am trying to show affection to my darling angels who roam this forum. I love you all with all my heart and I will do everything in my power to see that you all are happy and well.
I am the King
I am the Bear.
And I Care.
And by the way, I am not roleplaying. I am being real. This is who I am. If you don't like it. I suggest you pay a visit to room 101 and dance with the Crimson King.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Babies
I love it when you refer to me as your child
It makes me all tingly inside..
I am glad I am making you happy my child. I really am. I just absolutely love it when one of my children gets that tingly feeling inside his or her little bones. It makes me very warm inside. It makes me very happy where it counts. Son, whenever you want daddy to read you a story. My lap is always open. It will always have a space for you. I love you my little Wolf.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Wolves
Mr. Flyte, I mean no harm when I refer to you as "my son" or "my children." When I say these things, I am trying to show love. I am trying to show affection to my darling angels who roam this forum. I love you all with all my heart and I will do everything in my power to see that you all are happy and well.
I am the King
I am the Bear.
And I Care.
And by the way, I am not roleplaying. I am being real. This is who I am. If you don't like it. I suggest you pay a visit to room 101 and dance with the Crimson King.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Babies
I love it when you refer to me as your child
It makes me all tingly inside..
It makes me feel like someone is trying to preach gospel to me. If that makes said person happy so be it, but I am not a fan of people trying to convert others to a type of belief.
Flyte, son, I am not trying to preach to you. I am trying to help you. I am trying to make you smile. Can't you see that my boy? Can't you see the true meaning behind my ways. I am the King for gods sake, I AM THE KING!!!!
I have a job to do and I must do it well. I must do it, or else I will be sent to hell. Let me hold your hand my little teapot, LET ME HOLD YOUR HAND!!!!!!!
KingCarebear
Lord of the Robots
Pass me the waste basket, I have to throw up. King Carebear just has that effect on me.
Look, I have played EQ 2 ever since launch, and have yet to have any character hit level cap. I feel no Pavlovian system of rewards that keep me ringing the bell.
I come home from work sometimes and just want to kill something, so I log in, join a group, and go lay waste to the land for about an hour or two. Until I've blown off steam and can actually be calm and rational with the fam.
On weekends the fam sleeps late, I am an early riser. So I cool my heals either crafting, or, if I'm more awake and bored, I go out gathering, trying to work my toon into deep shit where every mob is orange and red just to see if I can gather and not get killed.
Rather than run their treadmill, I set my own goals and objectives. You have no idea how many times I see a group advertise for a certain dungeon which I need, and I pass it by because it doesn't fit in with what I feel like doing. So I don't kill the mob boss today, so what. He'll was there yesterday, he'll be there tomorrow, the next day, the next week, the next month, the next year. No hurry. There's always another group, and always another boss to slay.
Son, if I make you that sick I suggest you come to my room so I can give ya some of my carebear medicine. Than, after you have taken your medicine we can play a game of Braid. Than, after we finish playing you and I can get on our knees and pray to the good lord for making such a great game. Than, after we finish praying to the good lord for making such a great game we can go to Jonathan Blow's house and blow Jonathan Blow.....
I'm kidding sonny, daddy's only kidding. I would never allow you to do something so vile and vulgar.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Flowers
Mr. Flyte, I mean no harm when I refer to you as "my son" or "my children." When I say these things, I am trying to show love. I am trying to show affection to my darling angels who roam this forum. I love you all with all my heart and I will do everything in my power to see that you all are happy and well.
I am the King
I am the Bear.
And I Care.
And by the way, I am not roleplaying. I am being real. This is who I am. If you don't like it. I suggest you pay a visit to room 101 and dance with the Crimson King.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Babies
I love it when you refer to me as your child
It makes me all tingly inside..
It makes me feel like someone is trying to preach gospel to me. If that makes said person happy so be it, but I am not a fan of people trying to convert others to a type of belief.
Flyte, son, I am not trying to preach to you. I am trying to help you. I am trying to make you smile. Can't you see that my boy? Can't you see the true meaning behind my ways. I am the King for gods sake, I AM THE KING!!!!
I have a job to do and I must do it well. I must do it, or else I will be sent to hell. Let me hold your hand my little teapot, LET ME HOLD YOUR HAND!!!!!!!
KingCarebear
Lord of the Robots
Mr. Flyte, I mean no harm when I refer to you as "my son" or "my children." When I say these things, I am trying to show love. I am trying to show affection to my darling angels who roam this forum. I love you all with all my heart and I will do everything in my power to see that you all are happy and well.
I am the King
I am the Bear.
And I Care.
And by the way, I am not roleplaying. I am being real. This is who I am. If you don't like it. I suggest you pay a visit to room 101 and dance with the Crimson King.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Babies
I love it when you refer to me as your child
It makes me all tingly inside..
It makes me feel like someone is trying to preach gospel to me. If that makes said person happy so be it, but I am not a fan of people trying to convert others to a type of belief.
Flyte, son, I am not trying to preach to you. I am trying to help you. I am trying to make you smile. Can't you see that my boy? Can't you see the true meaning behind my ways. I am the King for gods sake, I AM THE KING!!!!
I have a job to do and I must do it well. I must do it, or else I will be sent to hell. Let me hold your hand my little teapot, LET ME HOLD YOUR HAND!!!!!!!
KingCarebear
Lord of the Robots
Young man, is there something wrong?
KingCarebear
Lord of the Souls
Is this guy basically saying, you are paying money to get a false sense of satisfaction, endlessly using your time to get that next epic piece, and the result is that it becomes an obsession, and your social interaction with the world outside yer puter is deteriorating, and the only reason you hold a somewhat job is to keep paying for your game sub and electricity to run yer puter and housing to hold it and you to play within from sun up to sundown, does he also mean that when an expansion goes live to your mmo of choice or a major breaking update you may even miss work to be there on opening day, so ineveitably your career suffers as well in the long run, but all these facts that are stated are masked by the false sense of feeling good because your toon in some cyber land that in actuallity does nothing for you or your surroundings, or your community just got some (again false sense of importance) important upgrade in cyberland making you feel like life can wait till tomorrow, because now in can kill x in land y and recieve the dopamine rush of epic gift x. or am i just reading it all wrong. Just something to think about while the world around you goes to hell in a hambasket but you dont see it because you are blinded by the false sense of doing something, or getting something in some cyber-world, when it actually boils down to you being at fault for your surroundings going haywire, as the saying goes, those that dont help change things are just as much at fault as those caousing things to go bad.
playing eq2 and two worlds
Erm you do know part of the reason WoW is popular is because of it's 'recruit a friend' scheme, its clever marketing encouraging friends to play together. I really doubt many hardcore players lack friends, that is just being bigoted without a shred of evidence.
I edited for emphasis since you seem to have been ignoring the qualifying clause of that statement. Be honest, Which do you enjoy more?:
1) playing Halo split-screen with friends.
2) playing Halo over Xbox Live.
I'm betting that most of you are going to pick door number one. The rest of you are probably playing locked games with people that you already know in real life.
Judging from the behavior of most players in public games, I'm drawing the conclusion that that no one in their right mind would be able stay within 50 feet of these people without submitting to the primal urge to kick the little bastards directly in the balls. Of course, this isn't just an XBox Live thing as any CS:S player or Barrens chat veteran can attest.
So in conclusion, people that ONLY play games online are incapable of having any kind of real life social network due to being complete douche bags.
Show just how much u know about gaming... There was one HUGE reason why FPS didn't make it into PSX favored genre - mp problems. Split screen is second worse implementaition type of mp I've ever seen and can remember atm (1st being "limited player options" type like in some old sega game where one player was moving a robot and the other was shooting based on that same robot's location and direction (all in overtop view)). Every single console/pc game with mp worth mentioning had some way off leting people play without dividing or loosing parts of the screen. (like hot seat or "single screen"). Well, there're probably a few exeptions, where single screen is not that important, but those definitly aren't shooters. I tryed split screens many times in many games - no self respecting gamer would use those when there's a network alternative avaliable for the same game.
Ever had a decent mmorpg clan? I guess not... Nor did u get in a decent party... Yes, there are assholes playing mmos, there're assholes "showing off" their "assholeness" by throwing "lol! nOOb!" at unsuspecting victims, there're even assholes accusing online players of being assholes right here in this topic :P , but there are normal players as well, and the fact that they don't prove their existence on world chats over and over like assholes do, doesn't mean they don't exist. And the fact that u're offending gamers just cause they play over net, only shows that u're not far from those assholes.
The ones who's behavoir u disapprove, behave so out of frustration caused by real life. And here u are acting as an asshole out of frustration caused by them. And u're at least as guilty of their behavior as those who u're accusing along with them are guilty of yours. So how come u think u're any better?
Also u have a funny definition there about only plaing games online... just how far that "only" stretches? That's an easy way to offend people and then "innocently" state "I only meant people who play online 24 hours a day, and didn't mean those who do [whatever was mentionted in response]."
___________________________
"That kind of reward system is very easily turned into a Pavlovian or Skinnerian scheme," he says. "It's considered best practice: schedule rewards for your player so that they don't get bored and give up on your game. That's actually exploitation."
____________________________
This is a very stupid idea. Every game uses a "carrot on a stick" system to keep players engaged. Wait! There is one game that does not use rewards to hook players. PONG!!! That is a game with pure gameplay and no rewords to exploit players.
Let's be serious here. In a game design school you are taught how to use rewards to make a game engaging. You start out with extremely easy rewards. Then as the game progresses you make rewards harder to get and gameplay more challenging. After about 5 levels or 2 hours of gameplay you make an easy level with lots of nice easy rewards and lowered difficulty. Then you start the cycle again by raising the bar for another 5 levels.
We've seen how well purely artistic games have done. Clover studios is doing so well right now after Okami, right? I can't wait for Vagrant Story 3 to come out after the smash hit of number 2. Seamen, was so awesome on the Saturn, I'm glad it came out for Wii also.
Oh wait, none of that actually happened, because those development crews went out of business.
Stating that WoW is not artistic is also extremely stupid. Everyone knows that WoW is a very artist game. It is just not the style of art everyone likes, but it is very artistic. Anyone who folloed WoW's development also knows that Blizzards focus was on providing players with lots of content WHILE promoting casual short term gameplay. They also understood that hardcore gamers were present, and their hunger could not be calmed with a bunch of quick and easy casual stuff. So they added in some gruely "carrot on a stick" features int he game also.
This formula was very successful in the old school WoW. It was not so successful after the Burning Crusade. WoW has gameplay, but they put too much focus on items and lost their way with the casual market. They are still making extremely fun instances and other gameplay features, but they have also added a ton of filler content to keep people busy, and tide some ridiculously powerful items to that content that has thrown the games itemization off the chart.
City of HEroes lacked a decent reward system. Your only rewards were badges and new powers. IT was not enough to keep players into the game. The gameplay was solid and fun, but it lacked rewards, which in turn caused players like me to quit, then resubscribe, then quit again.
The game became much more engaging when they actually added craftable items as rewards. I played for a whopping 3 months straight instead of my usual 1 month, because I wanted some of those rewards along with my fun gameplay. Does this make CoH a bad exploitive game, or a smart one that knows what is needed to succeed?
While I have never played his game, and I probably never will. I would bet its not as important as he thinks.
I do however agree 100% with this statement made by mr blow.
Developers should provide activities that interest players "rather than stringing them along with little pieces of candy so that they'll suffer through terrible game play, but keep playing because they gain levels or new items",
Rewards are fine, but some of these games just rely 100% on rewards and are lacking in real gameplay.
Less epic rewards we need more challenge, more fun.
Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7
Yeah, yeah... Ever seen people who were Satisfied with their life "drink themselves into oblivion"? There's always a reason behind an attempt to escape reality in the first place. And while escape is not much of a solution, it sometime becomes the only option left. U're happy with your life? Fine lead a happy life and let others live like THEY want. U aren't helping much with your "your live is withering! Turn back!" speach. You're just making it harder for others to escape reality, cause there're always people like u to remind them how bad their life is. Repeating "drinking is not the anwers!" every time u see someone drinking, isn't an answer itself. You want to help people to get on with their life? Find individuals who need that help and actualy help them solve problems that caused them to escape. Don't just push'em back and expect to suddenly handle what they failed to handle back when they "went off the path".
Well said Mr. MarL, well said indeed. I shall give you a hug for your well stated words.
KingCarebear
Lord of the raisins
Yes you shouldn't listen to this Mr. Blow, but WOW lovers listen to Mr. T, William Shatner, and Vern Troyer. Which I think they are all really cool actors, but people listen to them and play WOW. You shouldn't like or dislike a game, because of what other people say. That goes for anything. I wanna see the Watchmen movie, but I could care less that Kevin Smith saw and liked the movie. Well thats just my 2 cents.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
So........gamers are too stupid to realize they're being screwed over by something like WoW? Gamers are too stupid to realize that Mr. T and William Shattner do not play WoW? Oh, and having fun just doesn't cut it anymore?
These posts have "America" written all over them. Let's blame everything and everyone, except ourselves!
Heh.
The quest reward "Carrot On a Stick" has NOTHING to do with "poking fun." You're adding a trinket that makes your mount (hello....HORSE referrence) go faster. In other words....dangling a carrot on a stick in front of a horse, makes it go faster...it wants the carrot. Horses really LIKE carrots. Maybe you'd have understood it better if they'd named the trinket, "Horse Bait" instead?
Maybe you've never had horses. I can't believe I'm explaining this. Never thought THIS quest reward was one people would have a tough time understanding.
How do you come up with that being "poking fun" at game company promises?
Wow, people tend to read in to things about anything they WANT to any more without any consideration of what was originally intended.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
If a game keeps you playing, its doing something BETTER than the game that bores you in 10 minutes. How artistic it appears is meaningless. How it keeps you playing is meaningless. What it looks like is meaningless. If you keep playing, its FUN or entertaining and if its fun, its doing exactly what its designed to do. I guess some games are designed to be art. Luckily, I can't enjoy just playing art. I enjoy playing fun games.
Oh, the irony of idiots
Do people realize that the term 'carrot on a stick' actually describes a real life item used by people driving donkey carts to get the donkeys to move. they literally tied a carrot on the end of the stick and hung it in front of the donkey.
The ingame item from WOW does exactly that...it is a trinket that makes your mount move faster.
LOL .. it reads like a huge case of sour grapes from some unknown game designer making a game no one ever heard of.
I see nothing wrong with our PLEASURE center stimulated. That is what FUN is about. What does he want to do with his game? Simulate our pain centers? LOL.
I agree with that. Almost every MMO these days has a carrot on a stick, but only WoW is really popular in the west. It obviously more then just dangling a carrot on a stick. They did the gameplay well and made a game that appeals to a lot of different people.
All games can be considered carrot on a stick or constant button clicking. Weather it's a game with elaborate puzzles or a simple game like WoW that mostly uses combat they all end up with you spending time repeating something over and over. To many people this is relaxing and perhaps thats what they want.
IM no WOW fan by any means but that guy is just a overblown treehugger
HE strikes me as the same sort of person that would protest a toy store for selling violent toys...
His big beef is games should be art and have a message tied in to teach morale fibre..yadda yadda yadda...
Art is subjective and really boils down to the users perception - not the perception of a liberal dbag...
Vegetta, my son, you are a wise little rabbit. A wise little rabbit indeed. Tell me my sayain child, how is your family? How is Bulma doing? Is she well? Do you still love her? What about Trunks? How is he doing these days? And how about little Bra, is she growing up well, has she become a strong young lady?
From reading your post, I see you still have the fire in your heart. You are still the baddest man in the game. Keep doing what you do my child, keep standing strong.
KingCarebear
Lord of the DragonBalls