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How true is this?
Rokurgepta
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,136
http://www.massively.com/2008/09/09/more-ncsoft-layoff-rumors-its-europe-this-time/
Once again a rumor surfaces of NCSoft problems and TR is mentioned as possibly closing in the coming months.
You can go to PTR and get the fanboysite opinion or massively which while they were a bit wrong last time, they at least had reports of layoffs, Dungeon Runners was the victim that time and lost 75% of its staff. So while Massively was informed about the layoffs by a source ahead of time they had the wrong game. Ok these things happen when a rumor is released, but PTR will never post such rumors because they are an unobjective fansite. They are informative and a good place to go for game information, but they are moderated and run by fans of the game who have no reason to be objective and it shows. They ban anyone who has a negative opinion and then pretend that since no one posts bad stuff the world is good.
I am not surprised TRs name came up again, it is likely to come up all the time until the sub number raises or the doors close for good. A game with RGs name all over it is going to be looked at that way. I would think from the last report that TR should be safe for a bit, their income went up 7% from subs last Quarter. That should mean a few more subs anyway.
Comments
If NCSoft shuts TR down, I'm going to avoid buying any games from them in the future. NCSoft seems to think that their games must do very well in order for them to keep them running. SOE on the other hand has found a way to justify running these mmorpgs that either never did very well in the first place, or subscriber numbers just dwindled over time.
NCSoft seems to be killing everything not coming out of Korea:
Auto Assault shut down
Cancels Blackstar support
Lays off a large portion of Dungeon Runner Team
Cancellation of Unnanounced European MMOG
Possible Cancellation of TR?
I always thought of NCSoft as being a good company that keeps the players in mind, but that image has been slowly eroding away.
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Killer 86%, Socializer 53%, Explorer 33%, Achiever 26%
I am looking forward to GW2 but I understand the want to avoid them in the future. Maybe it is time for them to try a Station Pass type deal. Only problem for them is their best game has no monthly fee as it is so enticing those people to pay will not be easy.
As for cancelling some unnamed MMO, that happens nearly every month. You can google up lists of MMOs and see the ones that never left beta or just faded out. The list of games that fail to reach market is large and could cause some smaller companies to simply close.
Spin your post/opinion however you want Rokurgepta, but you're going to have to wait till another day to say, "I told you so."
http://www.massively.com/2008/09/10/no-current-plans-to-can-tabula-rasa-says-dev/
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
Fact: NCSoft does cancel games which are a loss for them to maintain; Auto Assult being one example.
Auto Assult was live for a year before it was cancelled. I'd say it's a good sign for TR lovers if TR survives past the 1 year mark. And ask yourself this, if the release of WAR is sucessful (which it looks like it is going to be), will that increase the number of TR subscriptions or reduce them further? NCSoft is thinking about their future. They make their decisions and set priorities based upon the "real" and "projected" profits and subscription values (which we will never know).
You must not be reading posts the right way again. I am hoping they get PAUs in so I can come back and try them. I am not hoping for TR to close at all. I am just posting my opinion in a palce where I do not have to kiss up to PTR staff in order to be allowed to do so.
As I said I am not surprised TR gets tossed in everytime because they have low sub numbers and had much higher expectations, which combined lead to bigger disappointment with their current situation. So everytime a rumor flotats TR get tossed into it.
The "I told you so" reference is from the numerous posts of you saying TR is a failure. Sure seemed a way of saying I told you TR was a failure...news is incoming.
Why would PTR post rumors? It's just that, RUMORS. I don't care to listen to rumors, I'd rather wait and get official word. I think it's absolutely bad journalism of Massively and Kotaku to post rumors or even link to rumors. It sure feeds the fire of people that hate the game.
And lets address this "x" game is coming out TR is Doomed. I'm sure when AoC was getting released or near that, "Oh my I feel sorry for you TR subscribers. AoC is going to steal all the players away." So here comes WAR, same thing, doom for TR. I heard it all the time in DDO forums, oh and DDO is still there.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
Sometimes rumors like this are allowed to float for awhile to see how much outcry they get, hoping there would be a lot of voiced unhappiness. Then they can decide how much loyalty and interests exists and make their plans accordingly.
DDO is still there and barely at that. I played DDO for a year and a half and when I left it was because the devs missed their own promises of when things would come. Trust me no one in the MMO business thinks of TR or DDO as successful projects.
TR has failed its own expectations. Go back and read the report from January where NCSoft themelves said TR failed to reach the sales they had hoped for since release. If the company is ssaying things like that , that is why TR shows up in these rumors.
They are not just rumors, people are really losing jobs you know. DDO has a small core of players that are very loyal, and is has gameplay that is fun. It is not an MMO, it is a dungeon crawl game. Fun but small. TR has great combat, but it appeals to a much smaller market than RG had hoped for and it is a financial failure.
TR does not have that many players so its not like AOC or any other needs to steal them. TR has enough people to warrant continued hope, but it does not have enough to call it a success at this point.
It is quite simple the game is a failure until the time it turns a profit. With income of 6 million a year on subscriptions TR should make back the money spent before release in year 10. Now factor in the money they spend every month on salaries and equipment and tell me when the game actually reaches the break even point. Now tell me this game is a success. Fun for you does not equal financial success and unless the game reaches that point no matter how fun it is it may very well close. That would be a shame because with the right changes and time it could be a great MMO.
Its not just that but the fact that when a company has rumors of layoffs even people inside the company will not have all the information. So when a little leak comes about trust me its not backed by all the information needed.
I once got laid off and it was a surprise to everyone because our department was supposedly "Safe" from the coming layoffs. So when one of these sites mentions layoffs and TR gets tossed in it is not because these sites hate TR or want it to fail. People need to stop being emotionally attached and accusing sites of hating TR. It is a part of the business and rumors about a game that has not made back its initial expenditure will happen. Now if rumor WOW was closing came out that would be the shocker.
I am sure as you said this plays into it as well. If there is a huge public outcry they might think their games are more popular and or an influx of players is coming.
Oh maybe they should just sell the game off, I'm sure soe might be interested lol
SOE would buy it cheap and then by adding less content and having few devs be able to turn a profit in a year or so. Of course NCsoft would then never have the chance to break even and they might be able to if they keep the game going.
Desalus, this isn't a flame on your post in any way, this is just my opinion here. With maybe a bit of a rant thrown in for good measure.
I truly did enjoy Lineage 2 for a long period of time. The thing is this. They do jerk their playerbase around.
Do they consider themselves profitable because of all the adena seller/bot farmer accounts? Admittedly the Bot accounts probably outnumber the players 5 to 1. So yeah, they are definately making money. But is that success?
This is THE one constant, reoccuring problem that is so blantantly out in the open that they still do nothing about it, regardless of how much the players complain about it. Sure they do the occasional bot clean up (I think this is purely to BS the community into thinking they are doing something about it), but within hours there they are back grinding away on the mobs you need for quests.
Would they ever think of dropping the price of an MMO they have that isn't doing well to possibly draw in more players? Of course not let's just shelve the assets and sunset the servers. This has always been a fundamental business flaw in all MMOs across the board.
I played TR since CB, even bought the collector's ed, loved the game for about 3 months post launch, then cancelled due to lack of content and polish. I always intended to go back, once they added the PAUs, and added more to the game (sorry, but Hybrids just weren't gonna cut it).
Everytime I am at a game store, and I see the newest L2 box on the shelf I always do the same thing. Pick it up, read the box, drool for about a minute daydreaming about how much fun it would be to go back, then get to the reason why I left in the first place, put the box back and walk on by.
For a company with many games in their stable, it would be wise to do an all access type of account, but repeatedly in interviews, they always say they have no intention of doing so. I mean a package with TR, L2, CoH/V, and AA would have been awesome. A good variety of games to play, not just a bunch of high/low fantasy mmos.
If I were Net Devil, I would do a 20 dollars a month all access for Jumpgate:EVO and Auto Assault. 2 very different MMOs, so I would think that would entice the people to pay because why? Variety. I also think Net Devil deserves some credit for thinking outside the box.
Current Games:
Desalus, this isn't a flame on your post in any way, this is just my opinion here. With maybe a bit of a rant thrown in for good measure.
I truly did enjoy Lineage 2 for a long period of time. The thing is this. They do jerk their playerbase around.
Do they consider themselves profitable because of all the adena seller/bot farmer accounts? Admittedly the Bot accounts probably outnumber the players 5 to 1. So yeah, they are definately making money. But is that success?
This is THE one constant, reoccuring problem that is so blantantly out in the open that they still do nothing about it, regardless of how much the players complain about it. Sure they do the occasional bot clean up (I think this is purely to BS the community into thinking they are doing something about it), but within hours there they are back grinding away on the mobs you need for quests.
Would they ever think of dropping the price of an MMO they have that isn't doing well to possibly draw in more players? Of course not let's just shelve the assets and sunset the servers. This has always been a fundamental business flaw in all MMOs across the board.
I played TR since CB, even bought the collector's ed, loved the game for about 3 months post launch, then cancelled due to lack of content and polish. I always intended to go back, once they added the PAUs, and added more to the game (sorry, but Hybrids just weren't gonna cut it).
Everytime I am at a game store, and I see the newest L2 box on the shelf I always do the same thing. Pick it up, read the box, drool for about a minute daydreaming about how much fun it would be to go back, then get to the reason why I left in the first place, put the box back and walk on by.
For a company with many games in their stable, it would be wise to do an all access type of account, but repeatedly in interviews, they always say they have no intention of doing so. I mean a package with TR, L2, CoH/V, and AA would have been awesome. A good variety of games to play, not just a bunch of high/low fantasy mmos.
If I were Net Devil, I would do a 20 dollars a month all access for Jumpgate:EVO and Auto Assault. 2 very different MMOs, so I would think that would entice the people to pay because why? Variety. I also think Net Devil deserves some credit for thinking outside the box.
Success in the business world is based on how much profit you make. A game can be critically successful and still fail because financial success is the bottom line. So a game with 9 million players that gets dumped on by players who feel that because they do not play it they are better than the others is a huge success, while a game with the population of a small town might be better in some places but overall lack the mass appeal. Each is good to the players who enjoy it. But I have to laugh when people think that a game with original ideas is being dumped on because of that fact, when instead it is being dumped on because of what it lacks.
Not that you said that, I just happened to quote you and then ramble off into the sunset.
You make a good point. I've never played Lineage 2 up to a point that you have to start dealing with mobs of bots. I've have heard from numerous people that bots plague the servers and NCSoft does little to remedy the situation. This does not give NCSoft a very good image; they would rather rake in the subscription money from the bots than work to continuously ban them and delete botted adena from the game to make the gaming experience more enjoyable for real players. however, NCSoft may fear that if they do ban botters they will end up destroying some of the current playerbase, since I know many legitimate players do bot to level up, and people do purchase adena since prices are so insanely inflated.
My experience of NCSoft, and what I took into consideration when I thought of them as player oriented, was that they offer free expansions for every subscription based game. Not many companies do this, and I commend them for it sense I feel it is a better business model for them as well as players. Also while many companies are doing their best to copy the WoW model, NCSoft seems to strive to do something different by taking chances with new game designs and subscription models.
After the Auto Assault flop and the huge investment they put into Tabula Rasa not paying off, I'm starting to realize that this "purge" of NCSoft is simply the higher ups being very aggressive in getting rid of anything that is a risky investment or is currently not doing as well as they thought it should.
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Killer 86%, Socializer 53%, Explorer 33%, Achiever 26%
Lineage 2 is still going and is still a great game. However, it sort of lacks players to be honest. I really hope aion turns ncsoft's world upside down and goes well.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ncsoft-to-trim-european-office
Very true btw. They said an announcement could come in the next 24 hours.
I am pretty sure the announcement came out today. TR safe for now. NCSoft Europe lost like 70 workers. NCSoft is merging the offices into one title of NC West to include the Europe office and North America. Some small changes were made in the Austin office but the DG people are not moving to Seattle.
You make a good point. I've never played Lineage 2 up to a point that you have to start dealing with mobs of bots. I've have heard from numerous people that bots plague the servers and NCSoft does little to remedy the situation. This does not give NCSoft a very good image; they would rather rake in the subscription money from the bots than work to continuously ban them and delete botted adena from the game to make the gaming experience more enjoyable for real players. however, NCSoft may fear that if they do ban botters they will end up destroying some of the current playerbase, since I know many legitimate players do bot to level up, and people do purchase adena since prices are so insanely inflated.
My experience of NCSoft, and what I took into consideration when I thought of them as player oriented, was that they offer free expansions for every subscription based game. Not many companies do this, and I commend them for it sense I feel it is a better business model for them as well as players. Also while many companies are doing their best to copy the WoW model, NCSoft seems to strive to do something different by taking chances with new game designs and subscription models.
After the Auto Assault flop and the huge investment they put into Tabula Rasa not paying off, I'm starting to realize that this "purge" of NCSoft is simply the higher ups being very aggressive in getting rid of anything that is a risky investment or is currently not doing as well as they thought it should.
While I have and continue to applaud the free expansion methos of business, most companies doing it do so because they can not afford to do a huge expansion and get it done in a reasonable amount of time. TR supposedly had a real expansion being talked about with a new planet and other stuff, but I never heard if it would be a pay for or for free. They have been updating monthly but those are not expansions.
To me an expansion adds a ton of stuff and is worth the extra cash, free updates are rarely large enough to warrant such spending. DDO has been the exception but honestly in the last couple of years all of their updates have about equaled an expansion or maybe two to a game like UO used to get. I would rather pay and have a real good expansion yearly then wait 2 1/2 years to get the same content and if you stayed you paid as much in the subscription fees as you would have if not more for the expansion.
The way they do free expansion stuff is to take so long and hope you keep paying so in the end they sucked that $15 a month out for 10 months as opposed to getting you to pay for an expansion and leave in 3 months. The 7 extra months are worth more to them. You get nothing for free, you just pay for it differently.
LOL, PTR is the biggest fansite joke on the internet. If you criticize the game even remotely the thread is instantly moved to the Rants & Flames forum and if you dare question the mod you're banned.
Adele Mechka is pretty much the worst mod in the history of forums and has single handedly killed off 75% of PTR's posters.
ROFL @ TR
Btw, when the initial layoff rumors were circulated Critters said they were false. Whaddya know? They weren't. Oops.
It just proves how hard it is to pin down a rumor when even people in the company do not know or give false information. Then the fanboi contingent run around screaming bloody murder at these writers for being wrong. They get paid to write stories, they do not get paid to treat the game you(not you personally but in general) play like its the greatest thing ever. Or they cry how so and so site hates our game for being original but loves WOW, well they love WOW because it makes more money than the rest of the MMO world pretty much. Get over the slights to lesser and failed games and realize if you play a game with 30k subs it will always be on the cusp of death.
Yeah I agree; not really impressive on the Tabula Rasa front. However Lineage 2, which brings in a ton of money from Korean subscriptions, has received 10 fairly large expansions in a little over 4 years. Of course they aren't going to put in that kind of investment into TR since the payout won't be nearly as large.
I don't know what their strategy is behind these monthly updates for TR. Is it simply a strategy to get people to hold on to their subscriptions instead of quitting and waiting a number of months for a subscription?; perhaps. Or are they releasing the newly developed content and updates as quickly as possible so that the entire playerbase doesn't leave out of boredom. My guess is it's the latter. They probably don't have a team large enough to put out new updates as well as work on an expansion. NCSoft probably feels they have already put in too much money into the game with very little payout. They will keep the team as small as possible to create monthly updates and no expansions, which is all to minimize any more additional risk.
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Killer 86%, Socializer 53%, Explorer 33%, Achiever 26%
Yeah I agree; not really impressive on the Tabula Rasa front. However Lineage 2, which brings in a ton of money from Korean subscriptions, has received 10 fairly large expansions in a little over 4 years. Of course they aren't going to put in that kind of investment into TR since the payout won't be nearly as large.
I don't know what their strategy is behind these monthly updates for TR. Is it simply a strategy to get people to hold on to their subscriptions instead of quitting and waiting a number of months for a subscription?; perhaps. Or are they releasing the newly developed content and updates as quickly as possible so that the entire playerbase doesn't leave out of boredom. My guess is it's the latter. They probably don't have a team large enough to put out new updates as well as work on an expansion. NCSoft probably feels they have already put in too much money into the game with very little payout. They will keep the team as small as possible to create monthly updates and no expansions, which is all to minimize any more additional risk.
They are doing all the work they left out of beta. Fixing broken skills that never should have been released, repairing classes that should have been fixed for the most part in beta. Supposedly they have a 60 person team for TR. They have added a few new instances and other bits and pieces such as some new weapons, the majority of the things they do in many patches is stuff no one should be paying for but should have been done before release. They are not adding new content nearly as much as they are polishing the old stuff. The amount of new content they have added since release might equal 8 hours of gaming. Thats not good enough in a game that really dies after level 30 content wise.
SOE would buy it cheap and then by adding less content and having few devs be able to turn a profit in a year or so. Of course NCsoft would then never have the chance to break even and they might be able to if they keep the game going.
What?! Are you generalizing the whole SoE strategy based on one thing that happened in the past? '
Btw this all rant of yours is kinda silly. {mod edit} You only mentioned a speculative article and didnt you mention the other article on the same website that contains a link to a forum (which is used by devs) where a Tabula Rasa dev states:
"There are no current plans to can TR.
Long Live TR "
http://www.planettr.com/forums/showpost.php?p=113852&postcount=23
REALITY CHECK
SOE would buy it cheap and then by adding less content and having few devs be able to turn a profit in a year or so. Of course NCsoft would then never have the chance to break even and they might be able to if they keep the game going.
What?! Are you generalizing the whole SoE strategy based on one thing that happened in the past? '
Btw this all rant of yours is kinda silly. You're an obvious troll. You only mentioned a speculative article and didnt you mention the other article on the same website that contains a link to a forum (which is used by devs) where a Tabula Rasa dev states:
"There are no current plans to can TR.
Long Live TR "
http://www.planettr.com/forums/showpost.php?p=113852&postcount=23
That would be because when I asked the question the answer was not out. If you read the other answers I have clearly said what the new report had to say. So no I am not a troll I am the reality check fanbois need.
Yes I generalized the whole SOE strategy. Sue me.
The article was right there were layoffs. No current plans to can TR sounds awful close to but the future is dim. Thank you for the link to fanboi central. The site that bans people for negative posts and then pretend all is good.
Your avatar is amazingly accurate.
Here is a link since you did not read the rest of the thread.
Trolling is what you did, not me.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2300106
SOE would buy it cheap and then by adding less content and having few devs be able to turn a profit in a year or so. Of course NCsoft would then never have the chance to break even and they might be able to if they keep the game going.
What?! Are you generalizing the whole SoE strategy based on one thing that happened in the past? '
Btw this all rant of yours is kinda silly. You're an obvious troll. You only mentioned a speculative article and didnt you mention the other article on the same website that contains a link to a forum (which is used by devs) where a Tabula Rasa dev states:
"There are no current plans to can TR.
Long Live TR "
http://www.planettr.com/forums/showpost.php?p=113852&postcount=23
That would be because when I asked the question the answer was not out. If you read the other answers I have clearly said what the new report had to say. So no I am not a troll I am the reality check fanbois need.
Yes I generalized the whole SOE strategy. Sue me.
The article was right there were layoffs. No current plans to can TR sounds awful close to but the future is dim. Thank you for the link to fanboi central. The site that bans people for negative posts and then pretend all is good.
Your avatar is amazingly accurate.
What !? Again are you generalizing your opinion based on what someone said here?! You are really radiculous. If you visit the actual forum, you would find out that the senseless critics are all there just moved to a special section.
You're calling me a fanboy? Im not even playing Tabula Rasa.
My avatar is fantastic I know, at least Im not trying to look serious in this forum full of people like you.
REALITY CHECK