War is a dumbed down WoW but thats not a bad thing for everyone.
please tell me how one is dumbed down over the other. Both are easy and quick to jump into and enjoy without needing a phd
WAR PVE is far easier and just not as in depth or as good, it's basically solo kill quests to end level and public quests are just a grind for INF to get gear.
Crafting is even more dumbed down and has no purpose in the game.
Combat lacks depth to WOW and just take sout all the skills that require any thought and makes you bash the same spell chains over and over again.
Theres 4 archetypes in the game and this makes all the classes lack any depth like the unique ones in WOW.
Getting the best gear is soooo easy and everyone has the same shit throughout the tiers.
The world is laid out like a game instead of a online world where you have a linear path of progression to the end tiers.
Its just a simplified version of WOW and even the RVR is setup very much like a larger scale of AV.
.. WoW only have 3 archives. DPS, healing, Tank.
And Why are you even posting here Papa? since you are clearly a WoW fnaboi.. Go back to there?
To keep things correct there. WOW has 3 other systems that are far more effective than any other MMO game has atm.
Buff system
Crowd control
Cleansing.
WAR has these systems to but they are weak atm and not balanced.
This does not mean I agree with the OP that WAR is a Dumb down WOW. There isn't a game out yet that can be more dumbed down that WOW. And WOLK will just increase that.
Asheron's call buff system is FAR superior to WoW.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
What a laugh. As an old board wargamer I can only laugh at such statements.
If you don't play as a group in WSG, you can't win. If you don't play as a group in AB you can't win.
If you don't have a teamspeak on in Arena you can't win.
The general principles of command and strategy used in Wow are the same as in WAR, the difference is that Wow has more tactical possiblities. Its classes are more pronounced and different and its CC and anti CC show dozens of interesting tactical options that just do not exist in zergfest battles.
You are talking of tactics in a game that has ... autofacing. My God.
War is a dumbed down WoW but thats not a bad thing for everyone.
please tell me how one is dumbed down over the other. Both are easy and quick to jump into and enjoy without needing a phd
WAR PVE is far easier and just not as in depth or as good, it's basically solo kill quests to end level and public quests are just a grind for INF to get gear.
Crafting is even more dumbed down and has no purpose in the game.
Combat lacks depth to WOW and just take sout all the skills that require any thought and makes you bash the same spell chains over and over again.
Theres 4 archetypes in the game and this makes all the classes lack any depth like the unique ones in WOW.
Getting the best gear is soooo easy and everyone has the same shit throughout the tiers.
The world is laid out like a game instead of a online world where you have a linear path of progression to the end tiers.
Its just a simplified version of WOW and even the RVR is setup very much like a larger scale of AV.
.. WoW only have 3 archives. DPS, healing, Tank.
And Why are you even posting here Papa? since you are clearly a WoW fnaboi.. Go back to there?
To keep things correct there. WOW has 3 other systems that are far more effective than any other MMO game has atm.
Buff system
Crowd control
Cleansing.
WAR has these systems to but they are weak atm and not balanced.
This does not mean I agree with the OP that WAR is a Dumb down WOW. There isn't a game out yet that can be more dumbed down that WOW. And WOLK will just increase that.
Asheron's call buff system is FAR superior to WoW.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
I was comparing WOW and WAR - not other games.
Saying that WOW has just dps tank and healing is wrong. That doesn't mean that the other systems are better or worse than in other games. They are stlil vital part in the game mecanics even tho TBC made some of them more powerfull than others. For example CC and interupting were made more important than debuffing.
In a few years WOW will be considered hardcore. This only shows the slow but steady decline of the genre. Decline for the ones that want a challenging experience in a virtual world, of course. If you want an easy fun game to spend a couple of hours now and then, the genre is shining now.
Well hell has frozen over. I agree with you.
It isn't necessarily as bad as people think, WOW opened the market to more pockets. That will help create a lot of games that will get easier and easier, then we'll get WOW "vets"....feels weird typing that. It will also create a larger niche for challenging games.
I think it will eventually right itself, but you will have to endure a few more releases of Seasame Street Online before that happens.
It has been dumbed down to the point where i can get on with playing the game, instead of wasting time on mundane and time wasting tasks.
Hence i like it as i have more time to actually play the game.
I cant understand people that say that games are two easy, whether it be WoW or WAR!
NEWS FLASH >> Its a game it is supposed to be easy and fun, not hard and grindy, i want that i go to work!
If you dont want easy why bother playing a game at all, go out there and practice wielding an actual sword and then come and tell me the game i play is to easy!
In a few years WOW will be considered hardcore. This only shows the slow but steady decline of the genre. Decline for the ones that want a challenging experience in a virtual world, of course. If you want an easy fun game to spend a couple of hours now and then, the genre is shining now.
I don't think so, right now there have come a few really easy games but more advanced are coming too, Spellborn will release soon and the combat system there are more complicating than EQ in many ways.
It is good if the market holds both complicated and simple games, Diablo was simple and fun and Baldurs gate was basicly the same game more advanced.
It is nothing wrong to prefer simple or complicated games, the market have room for both. WAR fills it's purpose, you just can't expect everyone to like it. Only problems the last few years is that Wow have had to big impact on the other games but I think that will end soon and the games will be less similar to eachother than they been the last 4 years.
War is a dumbed down WoW but thats not a bad thing for everyone.
please tell me how one is dumbed down over the other. Both are easy and quick to jump into and enjoy without needing a phd
WAR PVE is far easier and just not as in depth or as good, it's basically solo kill quests to end level and public quests are just a grind for INF to get gear.
Crafting is even more dumbed down and has no purpose in the game.
Combat lacks depth to WOW and just take sout all the skills that require any thought and makes you bash the same spell chains over and over again.
Theres 4 archetypes in the game and this makes all the classes lack any depth like the unique ones in WOW.
Getting the best gear is soooo easy and everyone has the same shit throughout the tiers.
The world is laid out like a game instead of a online world where you have a linear path of progression to the end tiers.
Its just a simplified version of WOW and even the RVR is setup very much like a larger scale of AV.
.. WoW only have 3 archives. DPS, healing, Tank.
And Why are you even posting here Papa? since you are clearly a WoW fnaboi.. Go back to there?
To keep things correct there. WOW has 3 other systems that are far more effective than any other MMO game has atm.
Buff system
Crowd control
Cleansing.
WAR has these systems to but they are weak atm and not balanced.
This does not mean I agree with the OP that WAR is a Dumb down WOW. There isn't a game out yet that can be more dumbed down that WOW. And WOLK will just increase that.
Asheron's call buff system is FAR superior to WoW.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
I was comparing WOW and WAR - not other games.
Saying that WOW has just dps tank and healing is wrong. That doesn't mean that the other systems are better or worse than in other games. They are stlil vital part in the game mecanics even tho TBC made some of them more powerfull than others. For example CC and interupting were made more important than debuffing.
The difference in ONE talent wow class is greater than 3 complete different classes in War. Just compare a healing pala, with a pure dps pala and a pure tanking pala.
Three complete different talent trees (61 steps deep now in WotLK !!!!) and 3 complete different characters to be played. All with their own politics in buffs, seals, blessings, CC, adds, you name it.
Compare a frost mage with a fire mage. Compare a pure PvP rogue with a PVE rogue. All 61 talents deep. All different abilities. All different 3 talent trees with their own CC and anti CC, mana, rage, energy specific driven systems etc...
Seriously learn to play Wow and it's a good time because the complete talent trees are reset ... today ))
This thread is such a joke. The more this WAR and WoW feud goes on the more idiotic it becomes.
Listen kiddies, complain about WAR all you like, but in the past week my server has blown up, nothing but tons of new players, nonstop scenarios in T2 and 3, PQs being full from 5:30 - 12AM (cst) and RVR going on constantly. BTW order has successfully taken both the elven and dwarven keeps in T2 since a few days ago.
Regardless, you "haters" need to get your stories straight. Everything I'm hearing is all around the board, some are saying "Oh this games too easy" then I'll hear "OH this class is OP" (or UP) then I'll hear "Its too tough after level 20" now you're attacking the crowd control and buff/debuff skills.
Please keep trying.. stop at nothing until you bring down WAR. What a joke.
I'll tell you one thing... I've never seen WoW fanboys get so worked up over a game release before. This didn't happen with AoC I'll tell you that. Didn't happen with LOTR either. These boards are just blatantly attacking WAR, and its a total and utter joke.
AND I've got to say with the amount of items that are being fixed.. added.. and modified in the game Mythic is proving to be one hell of a company.
As for "tactics" in WoW, they're pretty much the same in WAR ---- However I've never seen a tank wall stop a DPS from getting to a healer in WoW.
And to the OP, why are you fighting healers against other healers? The point of attacking a healer (even if you won't be able to kill him) is to get his heals off the DPS and Tanks. Keeping a healer alive isn't a problem if he isn't healing his group. Don't think about solo PVP kiddies, this is a group game. Not healer vs healer..
It has been dumbed down to the point where i can get on with playing the game, instead of wasting time on mundane and time wasting tasks. Hence i like it as i have more time to actually play the game. I cant understand people that say that games are two easy, whether it be WoW or WAR! NEWS FLASH >> Its a game it is supposed to be easy and fun, not hard and grindy, i want that i go to work! If you dont want easy why bother playing a game at all, go out there and practice wielding an actual sword and then come and tell me the game i play is to easy!
Ever swinged a real sworrd? It is far more complicated than any computer games and takes 10 years to be good at, at least. I'm not good but I can easily take down an untrained person with a sword. It took longer to learn even the bases than it takes to be really good at any game.
Oh, and faction grinding is still a mundane and time wasting task, so even WAR is not just about playing.
l tell you one thing... I've never seen WoW fanboys get so worked up over a game release before. This didn't happen with AoC I'll tell you that. Didn't happen with LOTR either. These boards are just blatantly attacking WAR, and its a total and utter joke.
Actually, the same thing happened with AoC, just check the threads from may and june. Trolls kinda troll the latest game, no need to troll the EQ2 forum, don't upset enough people.
War is a dumbed down WoW but thats not a bad thing for everyone.
please tell me how one is dumbed down over the other. Both are easy and quick to jump into and enjoy without needing a phd
WAR PVE is far easier and just not as in depth or as good, it's basically solo kill quests to end level and public quests are just a grind for INF to get gear.
Crafting is even more dumbed down and has no purpose in the game.
Combat lacks depth to WOW and just take sout all the skills that require any thought and makes you bash the same spell chains over and over again.
Theres 4 archetypes in the game and this makes all the classes lack any depth like the unique ones in WOW.
Getting the best gear is soooo easy and everyone has the same shit throughout the tiers.
The world is laid out like a game instead of a online world where you have a linear path of progression to the end tiers.
Its just a simplified version of WOW and even the RVR is setup very much like a larger scale of AV.
.. WoW only have 3 archives. DPS, healing, Tank.
And Why are you even posting here Papa? since you are clearly a WoW fnaboi.. Go back to there?
To keep things correct there. WOW has 3 other systems that are far more effective than any other MMO game has atm.
Buff system
Crowd control
Cleansing.
WAR has these systems to but they are weak atm and not balanced.
This does not mean I agree with the OP that WAR is a Dumb down WOW. There isn't a game out yet that can be more dumbed down that WOW. And WOLK will just increase that.
Asheron's call buff system is FAR superior to WoW.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
What a laugh. As an old board wargamer I can only laugh at such statements.
If you don't play as a group in WSG, you can't win. If you don't play as a group in AB you can't win.
If you don't have a teamspeak on in Arena you can't win.
The general principles of command and strategy used in Wow are the same as in WAR, the difference is that Wow has more tactical possiblities. Its classes are more pronounced and different and its CC and anti CC show dozens of interesting tactical options that just do not exist in zergfest battles.
You are talking of tactics in a game that has ... autofacing. My God.
You failed to mention that in WoW PvP your group needs equal or better gear to win. You also forgot to mention that class combinations are essentially rock, paper, scissors, and some combinations are completely unusable.
To the OP, since when did things like fear, feign death, stun locking, etc. ever require thinking? You target your immediate threat and use your cc ability. Thats not thinking, thats doing. In war you have to decide who to attack, how to attack them, when to stop and switch focus onto someone else when your primary target is being protected. You also need terrain advantages and a greater deal of team work in order to steam roll through opponents. You can't just go up to a player, size up their gear, stun lock them, and dps them down. You have to coordinate with your team. You have to decide how to fight, how to react to changes, and when to let it go and move on to the objective. I suppose if you were to join the army you would ask them where to go to grind gear, how to farm gold for enchants, what soldiers are OP, and basically how to hit the win button without a lot of real thinking or effort.
l tell you one thing... I've never seen WoW fanboys get so worked up over a game release before. This didn't happen with AoC I'll tell you that. Didn't happen with LOTR either. These boards are just blatantly attacking WAR, and its a total and utter joke.
Actually, the same thing happened with AoC, just check the threads from may and june. Trolls kinda troll the latest game, no need to troll the EQ2 forum, don't upset enough people.
Oh no, don't get me wrong, I've seen it.. but WAR has been out almost its first month already.. getting really close, Just a few days away actually. At this time for AoC there were more posts about how funcoms screwing people over that the WoW fanboys gave up because they knew they won.
Every now and then you may read a small skirmish over which games better, but I gotta say, at the amount of posts I've seen over the WoW/ WAR topic since open beta started far exceeds anything I've seen on these boards since I've joined. And as you can also see (eventhough its been a rather short time for me) I still view these boards a lot.
EQ1 people go on about how WoW is dumbed down. The EQ1 types having seen the worst yet. WAR is WoW simplified. Most care about the pvp so I'll start there. There are a bunch of combat features missing from WAR that are commonly found in most modern games. Fear, LOTRO has a fear mechanic. Feign death, LOTRO has feign so does EQ2. Blink or charge. In WAR, it's your moment to shine. You'll be a pvp god. How? There are only 6 buttons to smash, damage, DOT, heal, HOT, buff, and debuff. Everyone has a ton of health so as long as you aren't brain dead, you'll never die. Just run or heal yourself. Only those not paying attention in WAR die. One shotting? Try 1,032 shotting at a minimum. We had an rvr match between two of us rune priests and two shaman. We gave up after five minutes of fighting and with full health bars. It's easier to kill a DPS class in WAR because they can't heal. Rune priests are the best tank in game. PvE has been simplified. You don't need a mod, WAR points you in the right direction and quests are designed so that you can't fail. The aggro radii on mobs is so tiny that your practically invisible. Don't like groups? All that social interaction bothersome? WAR has done away with the need for groups. You'll never have to group for anything, you'll never have to talk to anyone for that matter. It's an online first person shooter. Death penalty? Virtually non-existant. Need to get back to camp? Find something that will kill you. Am I going to play it? Yes, am playing it at the moment, but the servers are down. Why, you ask? The same reason I have a twinky after eating my vegetables.
I am one of those EQ1 guys who hates WoW as you described. However, unlike WoW, WAR has a lot more to offer to seasoned MMO'ers than WoW. At least in my opinion. I am having fun everytime I login to WAR. I could never find that in WoW. Not ever. I have found a great community, I have not heard the word "pwnd" yet. It's a blast and the pvp is fantastic. Calling WAR a dumbed down WoW is the most brainless claim I have heard yet from the wowfag fan base. I look forward to future laughs, I'll look out for your name!
don't understand why people constantly attack this game is really good. Garnered many many players and is pretty fun. It has a bright future. I know its mostly the WoW fanboi's and darkfall scrubs that are doing this. I don't knock either game. Well at least not WoW.
War is a dumbed down WoW but thats not a bad thing for everyone.
please tell me how one is dumbed down over the other. Both are easy and quick to jump into and enjoy without needing a phd
WAR PVE is far easier and just not as in depth or as good, it's basically solo kill quests to end level and public quests are just a grind for INF to get gear.
Crafting is even more dumbed down and has no purpose in the game.
Combat lacks depth to WOW and just take sout all the skills that require any thought and makes you bash the same spell chains over and over again.
Theres 4 archetypes in the game and this makes all the classes lack any depth like the unique ones in WOW.
Getting the best gear is soooo easy and everyone has the same shit throughout the tiers.
The world is laid out like a game instead of a online world where you have a linear path of progression to the end tiers.
Its just a simplified version of WOW and even the RVR is setup very much like a larger scale of AV.
.. WoW only have 3 archives. DPS, healing, Tank.
And Why are you even posting here Papa? since you are clearly a WoW fnaboi.. Go back to there?
To keep things correct there. WOW has 3 other systems that are far more effective than any other MMO game has atm.
Buff system
Crowd control
Cleansing.
WAR has these systems to but they are weak atm and not balanced.
This does not mean I agree with the OP that WAR is a Dumb down WOW. There isn't a game out yet that can be more dumbed down that WOW. And WOLK will just increase that.
Asheron's call buff system is FAR superior to WoW.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
I was comparing WOW and WAR - not other games.
Saying that WOW has just dps tank and healing is wrong. That doesn't mean that the other systems are better or worse than in other games. They are stlil vital part in the game mecanics even tho TBC made some of them more powerfull than others. For example CC and interupting were made more important than debuffing.
The difference in ONE talent wow class is greater than 3 complete different classes in War. Just compare a healing pala, with a pure dps pala and a pure tanking pala.
Three complete different talent trees (61 steps deep now in WotLK !!!!) and 3 complete different characters to be played. All with their own politics in buffs, seals, blessings, CC, adds, you name it.
Compare a frost mage with a fire mage. Compare a pure PvP rogue with a PVE rogue. All 61 talents deep. All different abilities. All different 3 talent trees with their own CC and anti CC, mana, rage, energy specific driven systems etc...
Seriously learn to play Wow and it's a good time because the complete talent trees are reset ... today ))
How many talents do you have for each class ?
Get it through your f'ing skull bodypass. THIS IS NOT THE WOW FORUMS. Stop posting here.
A sorcerer can spec for dot/AOE/combo of two. Much the same way a mage can. ONly, we have 19 other classes. why the fuck would I learn to play WoW? I DO NOT PLAY WoW NOW. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT SYSTEM.
In a few years WOW will be considered hardcore. This only shows the slow but steady decline of the genre. Decline for the ones that want a challenging experience in a virtual world, of course. If you want an easy fun game to spend a couple of hours now and then, the genre is shining now.
I don't think so, right now there have come a few really easy games but more advanced are coming too, Spellborn will release soon and the combat system there are more complicating than EQ in many ways.
It is good if the market holds both complicated and simple games, Diablo was simple and fun and Baldurs gate was basicly the same game more advanced.
It is nothing wrong to prefer simple or complicated games, the market have room for both. WAR fills it's purpose, you just can't expect everyone to like it. Only problems the last few years is that Wow have had to big impact on the other games but I think that will end soon and the games will be less similar to eachother than they been the last 4 years.
We need more complicated games..
Oh.. and the crafting system is more complicated in WAR then WoW. All you need is the mats in WoW.. you don't have to put them anywhere.. just have them in yoru inventory.. How is that complicated?
In a few years WOW will be considered hardcore. This only shows the slow but steady decline of the genre. Decline for the ones that want a challenging experience in a virtual world, of course. If you want an easy fun game to spend a couple of hours now and then, the genre is shining now.
Sorry, but your doomsday prophesising that genre is in steady decline is poppycock. If you want sandbox style games like the days of old there are choices. I guess, looking at your portrait sig, you are bitter about previous changes in one of your games. Stop treating each new release as if it is the new, and only, industry standard that WILL shape EVERY new mmoRPG.
The mmoRPG genre is booming, and will grow further still. Yes you will see many more "starbucks" style games becuase that is what a majority of the consumer driven market want. You are no different than the rest of us that look back on older values and fashions in life and complain about "moderisation" and "youth culture".
As to the OP, yet another fool who fails, or chooses to ignore, what WAR is all about.
Yep mistify still more. War is about a crappy vesion of "group" PvP with a clunky animation and worse control.
Worse control than what? it handles like every other MMO i've played.
Your avatar you are building is as original as that unpainterd miniature you had at the end of the row in WAR TT, that would be the first to set aside when you had a casualty in your ranks.
Being able to customize your character immediately makes it more like the hero you spend a few hours working on, as opposed to letting someone else paint all your figures which reminds of a game you seem to favor.
RvR is a buzz word for something there is hardly room for and In the end, the game doesn't walk like that Paul guy talked for years.
"Hardly room for" needs explanation. You mean in the genre? in the game world? And every time you mention Paul your story expands, from a few months, to 2 years, to now multiple years.
You know what astonishes me most? That the hype around War still IS there? Stll the defenders say things like 'that looks good, that should promise something, that is a great idea".
It's time you all wake up: the game IS published, play it. Good games don't need a defense.
By this logic, bad games don't need to be attacked? Or good games don't need to be attacked?
Why defend if there is NO CC? Why defend if Order lost all Keep battles in the past 3 weeks? The game is good you say. Well play it, instead of still defending its (almost non existent) hyped features.
The MMORPG is indeed in trouble if new games need to be defended on such a large scale.
Why defend a keep if there is no CC? What is CC to you, forcing someone else to lose the ability to control their char for any length of time? You're saying anyone who thinks about defending a keep should just give up cause they can't sheep an opponent? Order lost all keep battles in the past 3 weeks huh, why did i participate in successful sieges 4x already this week, flipping zones to Order?
If the game is so bad, why do you need to attack it? It would just die out on its own lack of merit.
Good games are played, no defense needed, despite the hate campaigns. Just look at Wow
What exactly are we looking at WoW for? Because nobody ever attacks it? Or because nobody ever defends it?
There is only one person I see perpetrating a hate campaign in this thread.
War is a dumbed down WoW but thats not a bad thing for everyone.
please tell me how one is dumbed down over the other. Both are easy and quick to jump into and enjoy without needing a phd
WAR PVE is far easier and just not as in depth or as good, it's basically solo kill quests to end level and public quests are just a grind for INF to get gear.
Crafting is even more dumbed down and has no purpose in the game.
Combat lacks depth to WOW and just take sout all the skills that require any thought and makes you bash the same spell chains over and over again.
Theres 4 archetypes in the game and this makes all the classes lack any depth like the unique ones in WOW.
Getting the best gear is soooo easy and everyone has the same shit throughout the tiers.
The world is laid out like a game instead of a online world where you have a linear path of progression to the end tiers.
Its just a simplified version of WOW and even the RVR is setup very much like a larger scale of AV.
.. WoW only have 3 archives. DPS, healing, Tank.
And Why are you even posting here Papa? since you are clearly a WoW fnaboi.. Go back to there?
To keep things correct there. WOW has 3 other systems that are far more effective than any other MMO game has atm.
Buff system
Crowd control
Cleansing.
WAR has these systems to but they are weak atm and not balanced.
This does not mean I agree with the OP that WAR is a Dumb down WOW. There isn't a game out yet that can be more dumbed down that WOW. And WOLK will just increase that.
Asheron's call buff system is FAR superior to WoW.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
I was comparing WOW and WAR - not other games.
Saying that WOW has just dps tank and healing is wrong. That doesn't mean that the other systems are better or worse than in other games. They are stlil vital part in the game mecanics even tho TBC made some of them more powerfull than others. For example CC and interupting were made more important than debuffing.
The difference in ONE talent wow class is greater than 3 complete different classes in War. Just compare a healing pala, with a pure dps pala and a pure tanking pala.
Three complete different talent trees (61 steps deep now in WotLK !!!!) and 3 complete different characters to be played. All with their own politics in buffs, seals, blessings, CC, adds, you name it.
Compare a frost mage with a fire mage. Compare a pure PvP rogue with a PVE rogue. All 61 talents deep. All different abilities. All different 3 talent trees with their own CC and anti CC, mana, rage, energy specific driven systems etc...
Seriously learn to play Wow and it's a good time because the complete talent trees are reset ... today ))
How many talents do you have for each class ?
Get it through your f'ing skull bodypass. THIS IS NOT THE WOW FORUMS. Stop posting here.
A sorcerer can spec for dot/AOE/combo of two. Much the same way a mage can. ONly, we have 19 other classes. why the fuck would I learn to play WoW? I DO NOT PLAY WoW NOW. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT SYSTEM.
Agreed, I mean WoWers, get it through your head, most of this community has tried, or refused to try previously-- WoW. It seems every other 2 posts in a WAR thread is why WoW is better. It seems like you guys are a bunch of jealous kids or something.. .afraid the new guy in town will take your friends away after you worked so hard to be a part of the community.
Defend WoW all you want, I've never been happier that the majority of WAR players will never have to hear these constant cries of desparity.
don't understand why people constantly attack this game is really good. Garnered many many players and is pretty fun. It has a bright future. I know its mostly the WoW fanboi's and darkfall scrubs that are doing this. I don't knock either game. Well at least not WoW.
Let me see, part of it is because some WAR players have trolled the Wow, AoC and Darkfall forums and it kinda got into a a real flame WAR now (pun intended). Now it is impossible to have a thread in any of those forums and this without some "this game sucks" post.
It is just regular childish behavior, try to ignore them unless they have some kind of valid point.
And avoid trolling the other games, it just makes things worse and would ony prove tha you are no better than them.
Asheron's call buff system is FAR superior to WoW.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
What a laugh. As an old board wargamer I can only laugh at such statements.
If you don't play as a group in WSG, you can't win. If you don't play as a group in AB you can't win.
If you don't have a teamspeak on in Arena you can't win.
The general principles of command and strategy used in Wow are the same as in WAR, the difference is that Wow has more tactical possiblities. Its classes are more pronounced and different and its CC and anti CC show dozens of interesting tactical options that just do not exist in zergfest battles.
You are talking of tactics in a game that has ... autofacing. My God.
I like how you throw out the "old board wargamer" line in a effort to legitimize your MMO status.
You fail to realize that ORGANIZATION will defeat disorganization most of the time in your rush to defend WoW. That is not specific to any one game.
You're saying that WAR is full of zergfest battles only? So when you're doing AV in WoW you still try to cap the caves, tame rams, get your reinforcements and all graveyards, and you probably stay on defense to delay their advance too?
You are talking about tactics in a game where all you have to do is run thru another player to negate whatever ability they are trying to use on you?
What a load of rubbish. Honestly, the OP makes a big rant that's nothing but an misinformed opinion of various features in the game. Fortunately, most of it can easily be countered and disproven.
Starting with an abitrary element that WAR lacks as Mythic has recognized that losing control of your character for an extended amount of time isn't fun for most players; Fear effects. At the same time, the OP conveniently remains silent on the fact that the game has an extensive amount of knock-back moves, pulling moves and things that generally do a quick repositioning of another player. So somehow the OP believes that pressing a button that causes fear is magically less dumb than pressing a button that knocks a player back. Already at this point it's quite clear that the OP is only out to make WAR seem less good by transforming subjective things into "facts", and ignoring the elements that disprove these ridiculous, self-proclaimed "facts". In addition he mentions a lack of a charge ability, despite the fact that such abilities exist, although they could of course be difficult to find, when they are labelled with such an obscure name as "Charge". So already in the first part of his post, the OP comes forth as incredibly biased, and even has to resort to lying.
Then he goes on to claim there's only 6 buttons to press. This is true, at least until level 7 or so. As in most MMOs, you start out with a few basic abilities and get more as you progress. By the time you hit 40, your 4 hotbars will be full of abilities, pretty much all of them you'll be using regularly if you want to achieve any kind of success. In addition, the OP acts as if other MMOs require you to use much more than 4-5 abilities. WAR is in fact particularly strong in this aspect compared to other MMOs, where you usually have a few abilites you use regularly, and the rest are either not used or are very "niche". Though as indicated by his first complaint, it's no surprise the OP feels the need to lie again at this point.
He's right that people have a ton of health, particularly tanks (hardly surprising in this case, though). It sounds like the OP is playing some game where battles are fought in small groups, rather than large fights. Somehow this smells of WoW arenas. What the OP doesn't realize, is that in large fights people can die rather fast when focused, so when a game is balanced around larger fights, this needs to be taken into consideration. In addition, he resorts to massive exaggeration, claiming that no one ever dies, when in fact, people die quite regularly in PvP encounters. That's pretty much what PvP is about - killing the other guys. Sometimes you can get away if you're losing a fight, but most characters have snares that prevent you from doing so. Of course, as the OP seems to only have played to around level 6 (though given his odd description of the game, I wouldn't be surprised he's never actually played it), he might not have gotten a snare ability before he quit the game. It's also very ironic, that someone who wants more "skill" in PvP, feels that a lucky string of crits is more skillful than being consistently good at using a wide array of abilities over a period of time.
He gives a description of a fight where two healers face off against two healers, and wonders why they can't kill each other. I'll just shake my head at this one and move on, leaving with just one hint - psst, healing.
Now we get to a point where we're bordering on lunacy. Somehow, PvE is very complex, if you need to download a mod that tells you where to go to find your quests, rather than the game having this feature on its own. Apparently, the key to making PvE complex is to make the user go to a web-site, right-click on a mod and choose "Save as...". The solo quest content, like in most MMOs, are relatively easy, so he's right about that. I can't think of many good MMOs where this isn't the case, however. Aggro radius is fairly short, though the mobs are often stacked closer together, so getting adds is pretty common once you get out of tier 1 (note - you need to get to a higher level than 6 to accomplish this feat).
As for social interaction, while WAR provides enough solo content to allow you to level to rank 40 (which for many is a requirement - many MMOs that have released with too little solo content have been hugely critizied for this), WAR excels at providing a lot of group content, more so than many other MMOs. In PvE, there's over 300 Public Quests, where only the first stage is completable solo, and where all subsequent stages are exclusively group content. Of course there's dungeons too which also are not soloable. So a ramp up from most MMOs, and with the open group system it's very easy to quickly find and join one of the many groups in a zone busy with doing the impressive amount of group content provided. In RvR, battle objectives and keeps all require groups to conquer, as are the instanced RvR content, the scenarios, entirely group based. So yeah, you can go rank 40 without grouping, provided you don't mind missing out on most of the game, and don't mind that you'll be unable to do any content at all once you reach the level cap. One of the things that really stand out for me in WAR is that I find myself grouping and socializing with other players all the time, in start contrast to when I played World of WarCraft, where everyone soloed the very easy quest content up until level 98% of the time until reaching the level cap, broken only by an occasional dungeon run to complete the quests there - though usually it was faster anyway to skip those brief diversions and simply solo quest more.
There's not much of a death penalty - a fairly inconvenient hit point debuff that stacks if you die multiple times, but it can be removed by a Healer NPC for a reasonable amount of money. Harsh death penalties is something the genre is trying to get away from, and I'd say most players are happy with that evolution.
So all in all, the OP has quite an imagination, and uses this in some futile attempt at giving a false impression of the game. You'd almost think he was talking about some other game and happened to post this thread in the wrong forum.
funny, i didnt notice that warhammer introduced trolls to the game as a playable race yet.
are they in the greenskin department ?
warhammer is at best a dumb down version of daoc at least. .
simply because the games crowd controll maybe lacking with classes that give 1 min mez or roots that are unbreakable dose not make the game dumb,
you sir are the dumb one, if you seriousely think that warhammer cant be challenging. itf it is so easy .
get a group of people 10 at max should be good. and make sure you get what you need btw and try taking a keep that belongs to the other side while it is defended. then we all will see who the dumb one is.
EQ1 people go on about how WoW is dumbed down. The EQ1 types having seen the worst yet. WAR is WoW simplified. Most care about the pvp so I'll start there. There are a bunch of combat features missing from WAR that are commonly found in most modern games. Fear, LOTRO has a fear mechanic. Feign death, LOTRO has feign so does EQ2. Blink or charge. In WAR, it's your moment to shine. You'll be a pvp god. How? There are only 6 buttons to smash, damage, DOT, heal, HOT, buff, and debuff. Everyone has a ton of health so as long as you aren't brain dead, you'll never die. Just run or heal yourself. Only those not paying attention in WAR die. One shotting? Try 1,032 shotting at a minimum. We had an rvr match between two of us rune priests and two shaman. We gave up after five minutes of fighting and with full health bars. It's easier to kill a DPS class in WAR because they can't heal. Rune priests are the best tank in game. PvE has been simplified. You don't need a mod, WAR points you in the right direction and quests are designed so that you can't fail. The aggro radii on mobs is so tiny that your practically invisible. Don't like groups? All that social interaction bothersome? WAR has done away with the need for groups. You'll never have to group for anything, you'll never have to talk to anyone for that matter. It's an online first person shooter. Death penalty? Virtually non-existant. Need to get back to camp? Find something that will kill you. Am I going to play it? Yes, am playing it at the moment, but the servers are down. Why, you ask? The same reason I have a twinky after eating my vegetables.
The fact that you think that WOW and WAR are even remotely close with exception of orcs and goblins makes you re review a farce. WAR is nothing like WOW so you get -F for your trolling attempt.
Comments
hahahah thats really funny and very untrue. WoW is as watered down as and mmo can get these days.
Didnt read, dont need any stinkin review, I play the game myself and love it.
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
please tell me how one is dumbed down over the other. Both are easy and quick to jump into and enjoy without needing a phd
WAR PVE is far easier and just not as in depth or as good, it's basically solo kill quests to end level and public quests are just a grind for INF to get gear.
Crafting is even more dumbed down and has no purpose in the game.
Combat lacks depth to WOW and just take sout all the skills that require any thought and makes you bash the same spell chains over and over again.
Theres 4 archetypes in the game and this makes all the classes lack any depth like the unique ones in WOW.
Getting the best gear is soooo easy and everyone has the same shit throughout the tiers.
The world is laid out like a game instead of a online world where you have a linear path of progression to the end tiers.
Its just a simplified version of WOW and even the RVR is setup very much like a larger scale of AV.
.. WoW only have 3 archives. DPS, healing, Tank.
And Why are you even posting here Papa? since you are clearly a WoW fnaboi.. Go back to there?
To keep things correct there. WOW has 3 other systems that are far more effective than any other MMO game has atm.
Buff system
Crowd control
Cleansing.
WAR has these systems to but they are weak atm and not balanced.
This does not mean I agree with the OP that WAR is a Dumb down WOW. There isn't a game out yet that can be more dumbed down that WOW. And WOLK will just increase that.
Asheron's call buff system is FAR superior to WoW.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
What a laugh. As an old board wargamer I can only laugh at such statements.
If you don't play as a group in WSG, you can't win. If you don't play as a group in AB you can't win.
If you don't have a teamspeak on in Arena you can't win.
The general principles of command and strategy used in Wow are the same as in WAR, the difference is that Wow has more tactical possiblities. Its classes are more pronounced and different and its CC and anti CC show dozens of interesting tactical options that just do not exist in zergfest battles.
You are talking of tactics in a game that has ... autofacing. My God.
please tell me how one is dumbed down over the other. Both are easy and quick to jump into and enjoy without needing a phd
WAR PVE is far easier and just not as in depth or as good, it's basically solo kill quests to end level and public quests are just a grind for INF to get gear.
Crafting is even more dumbed down and has no purpose in the game.
Combat lacks depth to WOW and just take sout all the skills that require any thought and makes you bash the same spell chains over and over again.
Theres 4 archetypes in the game and this makes all the classes lack any depth like the unique ones in WOW.
Getting the best gear is soooo easy and everyone has the same shit throughout the tiers.
The world is laid out like a game instead of a online world where you have a linear path of progression to the end tiers.
Its just a simplified version of WOW and even the RVR is setup very much like a larger scale of AV.
.. WoW only have 3 archives. DPS, healing, Tank.
And Why are you even posting here Papa? since you are clearly a WoW fnaboi.. Go back to there?
To keep things correct there. WOW has 3 other systems that are far more effective than any other MMO game has atm.
Buff system
Crowd control
Cleansing.
WAR has these systems to but they are weak atm and not balanced.
This does not mean I agree with the OP that WAR is a Dumb down WOW. There isn't a game out yet that can be more dumbed down that WOW. And WOLK will just increase that.
Asheron's call buff system is FAR superior to WoW.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
I was comparing WOW and WAR - not other games.
Saying that WOW has just dps tank and healing is wrong. That doesn't mean that the other systems are better or worse than in other games. They are stlil vital part in the game mecanics even tho TBC made some of them more powerfull than others. For example CC and interupting were made more important than debuffing.
Well hell has frozen over. I agree with you.
It isn't necessarily as bad as people think, WOW opened the market to more pockets. That will help create a lot of games that will get easier and easier, then we'll get WOW "vets"....feels weird typing that. It will also create a larger niche for challenging games.
I think it will eventually right itself, but you will have to endure a few more releases of Seasame Street Online before that happens.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
It has been dumbed down to the point where i can get on with playing the game, instead of wasting time on mundane and time wasting tasks.
Hence i like it as i have more time to actually play the game.
I cant understand people that say that games are two easy, whether it be WoW or WAR!
NEWS FLASH >> Its a game it is supposed to be easy and fun, not hard and grindy, i want that i go to work!
If you dont want easy why bother playing a game at all, go out there and practice wielding an actual sword and then come and tell me the game i play is to easy!
I don't think so, right now there have come a few really easy games but more advanced are coming too, Spellborn will release soon and the combat system there are more complicating than EQ in many ways.
It is good if the market holds both complicated and simple games, Diablo was simple and fun and Baldurs gate was basicly the same game more advanced.
It is nothing wrong to prefer simple or complicated games, the market have room for both. WAR fills it's purpose, you just can't expect everyone to like it. Only problems the last few years is that Wow have had to big impact on the other games but I think that will end soon and the games will be less similar to eachother than they been the last 4 years.
please tell me how one is dumbed down over the other. Both are easy and quick to jump into and enjoy without needing a phd
WAR PVE is far easier and just not as in depth or as good, it's basically solo kill quests to end level and public quests are just a grind for INF to get gear.
Crafting is even more dumbed down and has no purpose in the game.
Combat lacks depth to WOW and just take sout all the skills that require any thought and makes you bash the same spell chains over and over again.
Theres 4 archetypes in the game and this makes all the classes lack any depth like the unique ones in WOW.
Getting the best gear is soooo easy and everyone has the same shit throughout the tiers.
The world is laid out like a game instead of a online world where you have a linear path of progression to the end tiers.
Its just a simplified version of WOW and even the RVR is setup very much like a larger scale of AV.
.. WoW only have 3 archives. DPS, healing, Tank.
And Why are you even posting here Papa? since you are clearly a WoW fnaboi.. Go back to there?
To keep things correct there. WOW has 3 other systems that are far more effective than any other MMO game has atm.
Buff system
Crowd control
Cleansing.
WAR has these systems to but they are weak atm and not balanced.
This does not mean I agree with the OP that WAR is a Dumb down WOW. There isn't a game out yet that can be more dumbed down that WOW. And WOLK will just increase that.
Asheron's call buff system is FAR superior to WoW.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
I was comparing WOW and WAR - not other games.
Saying that WOW has just dps tank and healing is wrong. That doesn't mean that the other systems are better or worse than in other games. They are stlil vital part in the game mecanics even tho TBC made some of them more powerfull than others. For example CC and interupting were made more important than debuffing.
The difference in ONE talent wow class is greater than 3 complete different classes in War. Just compare a healing pala, with a pure dps pala and a pure tanking pala.
Three complete different talent trees (61 steps deep now in WotLK !!!!) and 3 complete different characters to be played. All with their own politics in buffs, seals, blessings, CC, adds, you name it.
Compare a frost mage with a fire mage. Compare a pure PvP rogue with a PVE rogue. All 61 talents deep. All different abilities. All different 3 talent trees with their own CC and anti CC, mana, rage, energy specific driven systems etc...
Seriously learn to play Wow and it's a good time because the complete talent trees are reset ... today
))
How many talents do you have for each class ?
This thread is such a joke. The more this WAR and WoW feud goes on the more idiotic it becomes.
Listen kiddies, complain about WAR all you like, but in the past week my server has blown up, nothing but tons of new players, nonstop scenarios in T2 and 3, PQs being full from 5:30 - 12AM (cst) and RVR going on constantly. BTW order has successfully taken both the elven and dwarven keeps in T2 since a few days ago.
Regardless, you "haters" need to get your stories straight. Everything I'm hearing is all around the board, some are saying "Oh this games too easy" then I'll hear "OH this class is OP" (or UP) then I'll hear "Its too tough after level 20" now you're attacking the crowd control and buff/debuff skills.
Please keep trying.. stop at nothing until you bring down WAR. What a joke.
I'll tell you one thing... I've never seen WoW fanboys get so worked up over a game release before. This didn't happen with AoC I'll tell you that. Didn't happen with LOTR either. These boards are just blatantly attacking WAR, and its a total and utter joke.
AND I've got to say with the amount of items that are being fixed.. added.. and modified in the game Mythic is proving to be one hell of a company.
As for "tactics" in WoW, they're pretty much the same in WAR ---- However I've never seen a tank wall stop a DPS from getting to a healer in WoW.
And to the OP, why are you fighting healers against other healers? The point of attacking a healer (even if you won't be able to kill him) is to get his heals off the DPS and Tanks. Keeping a healer alive isn't a problem if he isn't healing his group. Don't think about solo PVP kiddies, this is a group game. Not healer vs healer..
Ever swinged a real sworrd? It is far more complicated than any computer games and takes 10 years to be good at, at least. I'm not good but I can easily take down an untrained person with a sword. It took longer to learn even the bases than it takes to be really good at any game.
Oh, and faction grinding is still a mundane and time wasting task, so even WAR is not just about playing.
Actually, the same thing happened with AoC, just check the threads from may and june. Trolls kinda troll the latest game, no need to troll the EQ2 forum, don't upset enough people.
please tell me how one is dumbed down over the other. Both are easy and quick to jump into and enjoy without needing a phd
WAR PVE is far easier and just not as in depth or as good, it's basically solo kill quests to end level and public quests are just a grind for INF to get gear.
Crafting is even more dumbed down and has no purpose in the game.
Combat lacks depth to WOW and just take sout all the skills that require any thought and makes you bash the same spell chains over and over again.
Theres 4 archetypes in the game and this makes all the classes lack any depth like the unique ones in WOW.
Getting the best gear is soooo easy and everyone has the same shit throughout the tiers.
The world is laid out like a game instead of a online world where you have a linear path of progression to the end tiers.
Its just a simplified version of WOW and even the RVR is setup very much like a larger scale of AV.
.. WoW only have 3 archives. DPS, healing, Tank.
And Why are you even posting here Papa? since you are clearly a WoW fnaboi.. Go back to there?
To keep things correct there. WOW has 3 other systems that are far more effective than any other MMO game has atm.
Buff system
Crowd control
Cleansing.
WAR has these systems to but they are weak atm and not balanced.
This does not mean I agree with the OP that WAR is a Dumb down WOW. There isn't a game out yet that can be more dumbed down that WOW. And WOLK will just increase that.
Asheron's call buff system is FAR superior to WoW.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
What a laugh. As an old board wargamer I can only laugh at such statements.
If you don't play as a group in WSG, you can't win. If you don't play as a group in AB you can't win.
If you don't have a teamspeak on in Arena you can't win.
The general principles of command and strategy used in Wow are the same as in WAR, the difference is that Wow has more tactical possiblities. Its classes are more pronounced and different and its CC and anti CC show dozens of interesting tactical options that just do not exist in zergfest battles.
You are talking of tactics in a game that has ... autofacing. My God.
You failed to mention that in WoW PvP your group needs equal or better gear to win. You also forgot to mention that class combinations are essentially rock, paper, scissors, and some combinations are completely unusable.
To the OP, since when did things like fear, feign death, stun locking, etc. ever require thinking? You target your immediate threat and use your cc ability. Thats not thinking, thats doing. In war you have to decide who to attack, how to attack them, when to stop and switch focus onto someone else when your primary target is being protected. You also need terrain advantages and a greater deal of team work in order to steam roll through opponents. You can't just go up to a player, size up their gear, stun lock them, and dps them down. You have to coordinate with your team. You have to decide how to fight, how to react to changes, and when to let it go and move on to the objective. I suppose if you were to join the army you would ask them where to go to grind gear, how to farm gold for enchants, what soldiers are OP, and basically how to hit the win button without a lot of real thinking or effort.
Actually, the same thing happened with AoC, just check the threads from may and june. Trolls kinda troll the latest game, no need to troll the EQ2 forum, don't upset enough people.
Oh no, don't get me wrong, I've seen it.. but WAR has been out almost its first month already.. getting really close, Just a few days away actually. At this time for AoC there were more posts about how funcoms screwing people over that the WoW fanboys gave up because they knew they won.
Every now and then you may read a small skirmish over which games better, but I gotta say, at the amount of posts I've seen over the WoW/ WAR topic since open beta started far exceeds anything I've seen on these boards since I've joined. And as you can also see (eventhough its been a rather short time for me) I still view these boards a lot.
I am one of those EQ1 guys who hates WoW as you described. However, unlike WoW, WAR has a lot more to offer to seasoned MMO'ers than WoW. At least in my opinion. I am having fun everytime I login to WAR. I could never find that in WoW. Not ever. I have found a great community, I have not heard the word "pwnd" yet. It's a blast and the pvp is fantastic. Calling WAR a dumbed down WoW is the most brainless claim I have heard yet from the wowfag fan base. I look forward to future laughs, I'll look out for your name!
The Adventures of Fat Gamer - http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/FatGamer
don't understand why people constantly attack this game is really good. Garnered many many players and is pretty fun. It has a bright future. I know its mostly the WoW fanboi's and darkfall scrubs that are doing this. I don't knock either game. Well at least not WoW.
please tell me how one is dumbed down over the other. Both are easy and quick to jump into and enjoy without needing a phd
WAR PVE is far easier and just not as in depth or as good, it's basically solo kill quests to end level and public quests are just a grind for INF to get gear.
Crafting is even more dumbed down and has no purpose in the game.
Combat lacks depth to WOW and just take sout all the skills that require any thought and makes you bash the same spell chains over and over again.
Theres 4 archetypes in the game and this makes all the classes lack any depth like the unique ones in WOW.
Getting the best gear is soooo easy and everyone has the same shit throughout the tiers.
The world is laid out like a game instead of a online world where you have a linear path of progression to the end tiers.
Its just a simplified version of WOW and even the RVR is setup very much like a larger scale of AV.
.. WoW only have 3 archives. DPS, healing, Tank.
And Why are you even posting here Papa? since you are clearly a WoW fnaboi.. Go back to there?
To keep things correct there. WOW has 3 other systems that are far more effective than any other MMO game has atm.
Buff system
Crowd control
Cleansing.
WAR has these systems to but they are weak atm and not balanced.
This does not mean I agree with the OP that WAR is a Dumb down WOW. There isn't a game out yet that can be more dumbed down that WOW. And WOLK will just increase that.
Asheron's call buff system is FAR superior to WoW.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
I was comparing WOW and WAR - not other games.
Saying that WOW has just dps tank and healing is wrong. That doesn't mean that the other systems are better or worse than in other games. They are stlil vital part in the game mecanics even tho TBC made some of them more powerfull than others. For example CC and interupting were made more important than debuffing.
The difference in ONE talent wow class is greater than 3 complete different classes in War. Just compare a healing pala, with a pure dps pala and a pure tanking pala.
Three complete different talent trees (61 steps deep now in WotLK !!!!) and 3 complete different characters to be played. All with their own politics in buffs, seals, blessings, CC, adds, you name it.
Compare a frost mage with a fire mage. Compare a pure PvP rogue with a PVE rogue. All 61 talents deep. All different abilities. All different 3 talent trees with their own CC and anti CC, mana, rage, energy specific driven systems etc...
Seriously learn to play Wow and it's a good time because the complete talent trees are reset ... today
))
How many talents do you have for each class ?
Get it through your f'ing skull bodypass. THIS IS NOT THE WOW FORUMS. Stop posting here.
A sorcerer can spec for dot/AOE/combo of two. Much the same way a mage can. ONly, we have 19 other classes. why the fuck would I learn to play WoW? I DO NOT PLAY WoW NOW. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT SYSTEM.
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I don't think so, right now there have come a few really easy games but more advanced are coming too, Spellborn will release soon and the combat system there are more complicating than EQ in many ways.
It is good if the market holds both complicated and simple games, Diablo was simple and fun and Baldurs gate was basicly the same game more advanced.
It is nothing wrong to prefer simple or complicated games, the market have room for both. WAR fills it's purpose, you just can't expect everyone to like it. Only problems the last few years is that Wow have had to big impact on the other games but I think that will end soon and the games will be less similar to eachother than they been the last 4 years.
We need more complicated games..
Oh.. and the crafting system is more complicated in WAR then WoW. All you need is the mats in WoW.. you don't have to put them anywhere.. just have them in yoru inventory.. How is that complicated?
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Sorry, but your doomsday prophesising that genre is in steady decline is poppycock. If you want sandbox style games like the days of old there are choices. I guess, looking at your portrait sig, you are bitter about previous changes in one of your games. Stop treating each new release as if it is the new, and only, industry standard that WILL shape EVERY new mmoRPG.
The mmoRPG genre is booming, and will grow further still. Yes you will see many more "starbucks" style games becuase that is what a majority of the consumer driven market want. You are no different than the rest of us that look back on older values and fashions in life and complain about "moderisation" and "youth culture".
As to the OP, yet another fool who fails, or chooses to ignore, what WAR is all about.
Yep mistify still more. War is about a crappy vesion of "group" PvP with a clunky animation and worse control.
Worse control than what? it handles like every other MMO i've played.
Your avatar you are building is as original as that unpainterd miniature you had at the end of the row in WAR TT, that would be the first to set aside when you had a casualty in your ranks.
Being able to customize your character immediately makes it more like the hero you spend a few hours working on, as opposed to letting someone else paint all your figures which reminds of a game you seem to favor.
RvR is a buzz word for something there is hardly room for and In the end, the game doesn't walk like that Paul guy talked for years.
"Hardly room for" needs explanation. You mean in the genre? in the game world? And every time you mention Paul your story expands, from a few months, to 2 years, to now multiple years.
You know what astonishes me most? That the hype around War still IS there? Stll the defenders say things like 'that looks good, that should promise something, that is a great idea".
It's time you all wake up: the game IS published, play it. Good games don't need a defense.
By this logic, bad games don't need to be attacked? Or good games don't need to be attacked?
Why defend if there is NO CC? Why defend if Order lost all Keep battles in the past 3 weeks? The game is good you say. Well play it, instead of still defending its (almost non existent) hyped features.
The MMORPG is indeed in trouble if new games need to be defended on such a large scale.
Why defend a keep if there is no CC? What is CC to you, forcing someone else to lose the ability to control their char for any length of time? You're saying anyone who thinks about defending a keep should just give up cause they can't sheep an opponent? Order lost all keep battles in the past 3 weeks huh, why did i participate in successful sieges 4x already this week, flipping zones to Order?
If the game is so bad, why do you need to attack it? It would just die out on its own lack of merit.
Good games are played, no defense needed, despite the hate campaigns. Just look at Wow
What exactly are we looking at WoW for? Because nobody ever attacks it? Or because nobody ever defends it?
There is only one person I see perpetrating a hate campaign in this thread.
please tell me how one is dumbed down over the other. Both are easy and quick to jump into and enjoy without needing a phd
WAR PVE is far easier and just not as in depth or as good, it's basically solo kill quests to end level and public quests are just a grind for INF to get gear.
Crafting is even more dumbed down and has no purpose in the game.
Combat lacks depth to WOW and just take sout all the skills that require any thought and makes you bash the same spell chains over and over again.
Theres 4 archetypes in the game and this makes all the classes lack any depth like the unique ones in WOW.
Getting the best gear is soooo easy and everyone has the same shit throughout the tiers.
The world is laid out like a game instead of a online world where you have a linear path of progression to the end tiers.
Its just a simplified version of WOW and even the RVR is setup very much like a larger scale of AV.
.. WoW only have 3 archives. DPS, healing, Tank.
And Why are you even posting here Papa? since you are clearly a WoW fnaboi.. Go back to there?
To keep things correct there. WOW has 3 other systems that are far more effective than any other MMO game has atm.
Buff system
Crowd control
Cleansing.
WAR has these systems to but they are weak atm and not balanced.
This does not mean I agree with the OP that WAR is a Dumb down WOW. There isn't a game out yet that can be more dumbed down that WOW. And WOLK will just increase that.
Asheron's call buff system is FAR superior to WoW.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
I was comparing WOW and WAR - not other games.
Saying that WOW has just dps tank and healing is wrong. That doesn't mean that the other systems are better or worse than in other games. They are stlil vital part in the game mecanics even tho TBC made some of them more powerfull than others. For example CC and interupting were made more important than debuffing.
The difference in ONE talent wow class is greater than 3 complete different classes in War. Just compare a healing pala, with a pure dps pala and a pure tanking pala.
Three complete different talent trees (61 steps deep now in WotLK !!!!) and 3 complete different characters to be played. All with their own politics in buffs, seals, blessings, CC, adds, you name it.
Compare a frost mage with a fire mage. Compare a pure PvP rogue with a PVE rogue. All 61 talents deep. All different abilities. All different 3 talent trees with their own CC and anti CC, mana, rage, energy specific driven systems etc...
Seriously learn to play Wow and it's a good time because the complete talent trees are reset ... today
))
How many talents do you have for each class ?
Get it through your f'ing skull bodypass. THIS IS NOT THE WOW FORUMS. Stop posting here.
A sorcerer can spec for dot/AOE/combo of two. Much the same way a mage can. ONly, we have 19 other classes. why the fuck would I learn to play WoW? I DO NOT PLAY WoW NOW. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT SYSTEM.
Agreed, I mean WoWers, get it through your head, most of this community has tried, or refused to try previously-- WoW. It seems every other 2 posts in a WAR thread is why WoW is better. It seems like you guys are a bunch of jealous kids or something.. .afraid the new guy in town will take your friends away after you worked so hard to be a part of the community.
Defend WoW all you want, I've never been happier that the majority of WAR players will never have to hear these constant cries of desparity.
Let me see, part of it is because some WAR players have trolled the Wow, AoC and Darkfall forums and it kinda got into a a real flame WAR now (pun intended). Now it is impossible to have a thread in any of those forums and this without some "this game sucks" post.
It is just regular childish behavior, try to ignore them unless they have some kind of valid point.
And avoid trolling the other games, it just makes things worse and would ony prove tha you are no better than them.
WAR said it would NOT be a CC game because it wants the players to PLAY the game.. not be stun locked and die. Also, City of Heros CC is VERY much better.. (and they have a better buff system)
And by clensing, I assume you mean debuff removal? Yeah.. Again.. Asheron's call has "dispells" that remove debuffs..
WAR is not a complicated game. The game is supposed to be tactical.. This is what WoW lacks. WoW PvP is a solo mans dream.. Where as WARs is a generals dream.
What a laugh. As an old board wargamer I can only laugh at such statements.
If you don't play as a group in WSG, you can't win. If you don't play as a group in AB you can't win.
If you don't have a teamspeak on in Arena you can't win.
The general principles of command and strategy used in Wow are the same as in WAR, the difference is that Wow has more tactical possiblities. Its classes are more pronounced and different and its CC and anti CC show dozens of interesting tactical options that just do not exist in zergfest battles.
You are talking of tactics in a game that has ... autofacing. My God.
I like how you throw out the "old board wargamer" line in a effort to legitimize your MMO status.
You fail to realize that ORGANIZATION will defeat disorganization most of the time in your rush to defend WoW. That is not specific to any one game.
You're saying that WAR is full of zergfest battles only? So when you're doing AV in WoW you still try to cap the caves, tame rams, get your reinforcements and all graveyards, and you probably stay on defense to delay their advance too?
You are talking about tactics in a game where all you have to do is run thru another player to negate whatever ability they are trying to use on you?
What a load of rubbish. Honestly, the OP makes a big rant that's nothing but an misinformed opinion of various features in the game. Fortunately, most of it can easily be countered and disproven.
Starting with an abitrary element that WAR lacks as Mythic has recognized that losing control of your character for an extended amount of time isn't fun for most players; Fear effects. At the same time, the OP conveniently remains silent on the fact that the game has an extensive amount of knock-back moves, pulling moves and things that generally do a quick repositioning of another player. So somehow the OP believes that pressing a button that causes fear is magically less dumb than pressing a button that knocks a player back. Already at this point it's quite clear that the OP is only out to make WAR seem less good by transforming subjective things into "facts", and ignoring the elements that disprove these ridiculous, self-proclaimed "facts". In addition he mentions a lack of a charge ability, despite the fact that such abilities exist, although they could of course be difficult to find, when they are labelled with such an obscure name as "Charge". So already in the first part of his post, the OP comes forth as incredibly biased, and even has to resort to lying.
Then he goes on to claim there's only 6 buttons to press. This is true, at least until level 7 or so. As in most MMOs, you start out with a few basic abilities and get more as you progress. By the time you hit 40, your 4 hotbars will be full of abilities, pretty much all of them you'll be using regularly if you want to achieve any kind of success. In addition, the OP acts as if other MMOs require you to use much more than 4-5 abilities. WAR is in fact particularly strong in this aspect compared to other MMOs, where you usually have a few abilites you use regularly, and the rest are either not used or are very "niche". Though as indicated by his first complaint, it's no surprise the OP feels the need to lie again at this point.
He's right that people have a ton of health, particularly tanks (hardly surprising in this case, though). It sounds like the OP is playing some game where battles are fought in small groups, rather than large fights. Somehow this smells of WoW arenas. What the OP doesn't realize, is that in large fights people can die rather fast when focused, so when a game is balanced around larger fights, this needs to be taken into consideration. In addition, he resorts to massive exaggeration, claiming that no one ever dies, when in fact, people die quite regularly in PvP encounters. That's pretty much what PvP is about - killing the other guys. Sometimes you can get away if you're losing a fight, but most characters have snares that prevent you from doing so. Of course, as the OP seems to only have played to around level 6 (though given his odd description of the game, I wouldn't be surprised he's never actually played it), he might not have gotten a snare ability before he quit the game. It's also very ironic, that someone who wants more "skill" in PvP, feels that a lucky string of crits is more skillful than being consistently good at using a wide array of abilities over a period of time.
He gives a description of a fight where two healers face off against two healers, and wonders why they can't kill each other. I'll just shake my head at this one and move on, leaving with just one hint - psst, healing.
Now we get to a point where we're bordering on lunacy. Somehow, PvE is very complex, if you need to download a mod that tells you where to go to find your quests, rather than the game having this feature on its own. Apparently, the key to making PvE complex is to make the user go to a web-site, right-click on a mod and choose "Save as...". The solo quest content, like in most MMOs, are relatively easy, so he's right about that. I can't think of many good MMOs where this isn't the case, however. Aggro radius is fairly short, though the mobs are often stacked closer together, so getting adds is pretty common once you get out of tier 1 (note - you need to get to a higher level than 6 to accomplish this feat).
As for social interaction, while WAR provides enough solo content to allow you to level to rank 40 (which for many is a requirement - many MMOs that have released with too little solo content have been hugely critizied for this), WAR excels at providing a lot of group content, more so than many other MMOs. In PvE, there's over 300 Public Quests, where only the first stage is completable solo, and where all subsequent stages are exclusively group content. Of course there's dungeons too which also are not soloable. So a ramp up from most MMOs, and with the open group system it's very easy to quickly find and join one of the many groups in a zone busy with doing the impressive amount of group content provided. In RvR, battle objectives and keeps all require groups to conquer, as are the instanced RvR content, the scenarios, entirely group based. So yeah, you can go rank 40 without grouping, provided you don't mind missing out on most of the game, and don't mind that you'll be unable to do any content at all once you reach the level cap. One of the things that really stand out for me in WAR is that I find myself grouping and socializing with other players all the time, in start contrast to when I played World of WarCraft, where everyone soloed the very easy quest content up until level 98% of the time until reaching the level cap, broken only by an occasional dungeon run to complete the quests there - though usually it was faster anyway to skip those brief diversions and simply solo quest more.
There's not much of a death penalty - a fairly inconvenient hit point debuff that stacks if you die multiple times, but it can be removed by a Healer NPC for a reasonable amount of money. Harsh death penalties is something the genre is trying to get away from, and I'd say most players are happy with that evolution.
So all in all, the OP has quite an imagination, and uses this in some futile attempt at giving a false impression of the game. You'd almost think he was talking about some other game and happened to post this thread in the wrong forum.
funny, i didnt notice that warhammer introduced trolls to the game as a playable race yet.
are they in the greenskin department ?
warhammer is at best a dumb down version of daoc at least. .
simply because the games crowd controll maybe lacking with classes that give 1 min mez or roots that are unbreakable dose not make the game dumb,
you sir are the dumb one, if you seriousely think that warhammer cant be challenging. itf it is so easy .
get a group of people 10 at max should be good. and make sure you get what you need btw and try taking a keep that belongs to the other side while it is defended. then we all will see who the dumb one is.
mods lock up this thread, its nothing but a joke.
The fact that you think that WOW and WAR are even remotely close with exception of orcs and goblins makes you re review a farce. WAR is nothing like WOW so you get -F for your trolling attempt.