Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Averheim Destro's take Altdorf
Pheace
Member Posts: 2,408
Congratulations destruction!
[quote]It took us about 5 hours from start to finish with 0 defenders. With Order defending, even with our large numbers, it would have been MUCH harder. Even if the Order that was on had come out to defend they could have stalled us at the Forts most likely due to the 1 hour timer and the NPCs.
This was planned over a week ago and was organized within our alliance which has several of the highest level and largest destro guilds on Averheim. I am sure someone will come with some pics and more info. If we didn't have such a great turn out we wouldn't have been able to do it, even with the lack of defenders. [/quote]
Comments
when was this ? i have not seen anyone talking about sacking altdorf, and i play on that server .
Errr, posted just over an hour ago so I guess... umm... now?
Ahhh, that was the server that I played Order on. ROFL Zero defenders from Order huh? Well, that would perhaps explain the dismal experience I had on that server.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
this makes no sence, cause order seems to be on par with destruction , in rvr or scenarios. well at least how i have noticed.
That's what you get with off-hour raids. Was a problem in Daoc as well. Was not *supposed* to be possible in WAR I think I heard them mention before so perhaps this is another fluke to be chalked up to an unfinished city siege design it seems, like the last siege that got in through the side doors instead of taking the main doors down.
Early morning raid? SO basically they set up a raid when the least amount of players would be on to defend?
I'll wait till a server has the balls to raid a city during prime time that will be the game first in my eyes.
This is like all those noob pvp guilds in WoW attacking a city at 4am, it doesnt mean anything.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Um, you're kidding right? If that's what you expect this game to become you're in the wrong game. Off hour raiding has been part of RvR ever since Daoc, People are going to be abusing it, a *lot*.
Th best thing Mythic can do is make it take longer to actually take stuff. *Much* longer.
Then again, that will significantly reduce chances of underdog sides being able to take objectives by playting tactically.
I hope Mythic "fix" this asap. If not, been underpopulated will be a severe problem.
EDIT: I found this from MJ. Not sure if he is talking about this taking or the one in EU:
vnboards.ign.com/Message.aspx
Didn't MJ say these weren't suppose to happen for the first few months? And then when they did happen it would take a few weeks to push into the city?
These people have lvl 1-40 and done the end game content in 3 weeks...
/sigh
No.. I'm not kidding AM raids sucked ass in DAoC also.
These people that raid early hoping noone would defend are pussies, they were in DAoC and now in WAR.
Lets see these guys raid a city when Order is actually online... yeah they wont.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
No.. I'm not kidding AM raids sucked ass in DAoC also.
These people that raid early hoping noone would defend are pussies, they were in DAoC and now in WAR.
Lets see these guys raid a city when Order is actually online... yeah they wont.
Well unless they make a time frame lock from like 6pm - midnight local primtetime this issue will never be going away, people will always take the path of least resistance :S
As for Keeper, yeah that was a response to what happened in the EU raid.
Destruction heavily outskill Order on Averheim. It's not even close to being fair. Full of fail imo.
Mark's response to this siege.
[quote]Folks,
*Assuming* that no exploits were used and that destruction didn't take advantage of any of the things that will be fixed/tweaked in the next patch, then they deserve congratulations for the first taking of a city. I'll get the full scoop on this this week.
Now, as to the whole 2AM thing, well, if you want to play an RvR game, there will be times where one side will have a numbers advantage and they will use that advantage. The fact that this is the only city that has been taken out of our 55 servers means that the system is certainly not broken, borked or really messed up. If this had already happened on just our high pop servers, well, then maybe we'd be a little worried but we are 3 weeks since the game's launch and a city has been taken on only one server. From what I've heard, destruction got real organized and did what a large organized force would do against a non-organized (not disorganized since there is no inherent overall organization unless the players make it so) force, they defeated that force. We will look at all the data, look at what's going in 1.0.3 and if we need to make some new tweaks, we certainly will do so but again, a city has only been taken on one server so far in 3 weeks.
What amuses me about some of the stuff people have been saying is that on one hand, people say "Gimme more open RvR!" but on the other hand *some* people are saying "But it's not fair, they had more people than us!" and at the same time some people are saying "We hate scenarios!" If you want a true open RvR game then you should not complain about numerical or time-of-day advantages in terms of "Mythic FIX!" This is why it is quite difficult, if not impossible, to satisfy all the different needs/wants of the players. We can't make sure that all realms have the exact same population no matter what we do even if we were draconian in our efforts. No MMORPG of this type (DAoC, WoW, etc.) has ever had an exact 50/50 split and I doubt any will. We can't force the players to all log on to the game at the same time. If we were to say that city sieges could only happen during a certain time then we would still have people complaining, saying "It's our time Mythic, let us attack it when we damn well want to!!!" or "Our alliance can't get things going until late at night and Mythic is stopping us from attacking!!!!" and if we buffed up the defenses like crazy, people would say "OMG, now nobody has to defend the city, this isn't fair. This isn't an RvR game!" etc. People have been saying "Where's the war in WAR Mythic????" and now that a very organized group has taken a city without exploiting (apparently), now some people are saying "OMG, you mean we could lose because they were more organized and willing to fight? That sucks!"
Again, I'm not saying that the taking of Altdorf was perfect, done beautifully, working as intended, etc. since I don't have all that data yet. I'm also not saying that after looking at the data we aren't going to tweak things. However, I will say that if destruction did everything they needed to do lead up to the siege *properly* and then took it over a 7 hour period, that was a pretty special event. And in the coming weeks as we add more rewards and incentives for defending a city as well as the disincentives, I hope that people will more readily leap to the defense of their cities if they come under siege.
As to the whole "But we didn't know about city being under siege thing" well, I'll talk to the team this week and make sure that the notification systems that are in the game currently are working as they should be and even if they are, I'll do a review and see if they need to be buffed up some more. However, if people don't want to leave what they are currently doing in order to defend their cities, that is their choice not ours. We'll provide the incentives/disincentives for participating in the defense of a city but it is, as always, up to the players to make their own choices about this aspect of the game.
Mark [/quote]
Pheace is right. Most hardcore ppl plan there siege at the "perfect" time. Even King Magni Bronzebeard (King of Iron Forge, WoW) was assassinated first time a late Sunday night. Old DAoC players are keen on this. But I would dislike to see a timelock to fix this. Unemployed or students can defend the city while the rest are on work during the daytime.
You're kidding me right ?
I would like to state that in no way shape or form that anything I receive from SOE influences my opinion about SWG or their company. Im pretty much a typical average player enjoying the game.
Its sad their were no defenders during this..
come on people get involved.
No.. I'm not kidding AM raids sucked ass in DAoC also.
These people that raid early hoping noone would defend are pussies, they were in DAoC and now in WAR.
Lets see these guys raid a city when Order is actually online... yeah they wont.
Since when is planning an assault for a time when defense is at a low point a cowardly tactic? That's strategy 101. The entire point of attacking a city is to succeed. Why would you wait to attack until the opposing faction is prepared to defend? This is supposed to be war, not a football game. If you're tired of early morning raids, do something about it. Form a counter force, do a little recon. I guarantee that with as many players as they fielded and as long of a planning stage as they had, word of it leaked out somewhere.
INDEED....the more I play this game, the more I wonder how stupid and useless the average player can become. Why were there no defenders? Why do people not understand, or choose to ignore, scenario objectives, classes and how to play?
Why are these games full of selfish, useless, ignorant and childish prats? Has WoW had such an impact on the PvP of other games that ex-wow players can only deathmatch and duel in scenarios?
Why do tanks run away? Why do mobs of numpties chase after 1 lonely enemy player all stabbing at their keyboard hoping to land the kill, while the artifact carrier is left to sit and read a book? ARrrrrrgggggghhhhh.
/rant off
GG to those Players that took part
It's nice to see Mythic looking at these things and willing to adjust as required.
Well unless they make a time frame lock from like 6pm - midnight local primtetime this issue will never be going away, people will always take the path of least resistance :S
As for Keeper, yeah that was a response to what happened in the EU raid.
Geeze louise people..
Make rewards associated with # of people from opposing side online averaged from start of raid to finish.
Fixed.
If someone wants to raid the Order city when zero order players are on.. I say fine. Let them.
Just make it a useless venture.. basically a 'dress rehersal'.
no reknown, little to no xp. No noteriety, and they only keep the city for 30 seconds.
In addition, # of guards = inverse # of players on (with somne form of level averager in the mathematical mix.
There. Now, if you wanna attack at 4am CST? fine. Tonz - o- NPC guards worth little to no loot or xp.
Attack during Prime Time?
Little to no guards & much better rewards.
Duh.
So what's the outcome of this, what happens when one side takes the other factions city? U finally get the "Game Over" screen? ^^
Well unless they make a time frame lock from like 6pm - midnight local primtetime this issue will never be going away, people will always take the path of least resistance :S
As for Keeper, yeah that was a response to what happened in the EU raid.
Geeze louise people..
Make rewards associated with # of people from opposing side online averaged from start of raid to finish.
Fixed.
If someone wants to raid the Order city when zero order players are on.. I say fine. Let them.
Just make it a useless venture.. basically a 'dress rehersal'.
no reknown, little to no xp. No noteriety, and they only keep the city for 30 seconds.
In addition, # of guards = inverse # of players on (with somne form of level averager in the mathematical mix.
There. Now, if you wanna attack at 4am CST? fine. Tonz - o- NPC guards worth little to no loot or xp.
Attack during Prime Time?
Little to no guards & much better rewards.
Duh.
This will accomplish two things. It will turn it into even more of a PvE game. It will cause the defending faction on unbalanced servers to log off when they are about to be outnumbered in a battle.
"Eh, we're outnumbered, don't have a chance to win, might as well make it as unrewarding as possible for the attackers" /logoff
Then the people who have the organization and time to plan and execute the attack aren't being rewarded for their efforts.
This will accomplish two things. It will turn it into even more of a PvE game. It will cause the defending faction on unbalanced servers to log off when they are about to be outnumbered in a battle.
"Eh, we're outnumbered, don't have a chance to win, might as well make it as unrewarding as possible for the attackers" /logoff
Then the people who have the organization and time to plan and execute the attack aren't being rewarded for their efforts.
This idea was thoroughly vetted in the MMOFPS Planetside. (for *years*)
IMHO it worked as well as can be expected.
Admittedly, Planetside is not Warhammer, but I believe the founding principles as to what worked and what did not hold true.
Since I played Planetside from beta, I can tell you that, yes, in the beginning ghost captures had a greater reward, were scasled back, and pseudo-fixed.
Obviously, the "assaulting side" would get a "reward" for every second the other team *was* logged on (ajudicated in the end).
Obviously there would be abuse.
However, with respect, I think you are oversimplifying the idea to produce credence to your opinion.
A balance can be made so that:
A-'ghost captures' are reduced in rewards
B- 'prime time' captures are increased in rewards
C-abuse is kept to a minimum
This isnt rocket science & its not like there are not paradimes that cannot be drawn upon from previous games to use as guidelines.
By the time we got into the city, it was past 10 am EST. We started early at 7 AM because we knew it would take us several hours to grind the zones leading up to Altdorf, and we did meet only a few members of Order resistance up until that point. Once inside Altdorf the amount of Order defending the scenario outnumbered our main force in scenario 3, it was the fact that other instances also contribute to the overall total that we did eventually take the city. It was a serious task to get the almost 300 members on vent and coordinate an attack at 7 AM to begin with between the Retribution alliance guilds.
It's unfortunate that Order didn't gather their forces more rapidly, but the fact that the city didn't get taken until almost noon gives almost no excuse. Many people exaggerated how early the attack was launched, and this was on a weekend no less when most people aren't working. Also, our alliance contains only a handful of lvl 40 players, with most ranging between 32 - 38. That speaks to the coordination we needed, and perhaps the level of difficulty the game should be adjusted to to ensure that more 40s are needed for future assaults.
This was a fun battle. I took part in it. Couldn't actually go in Altdorf but. I helped out as much as I could with my level 27.
PS Order on this server is equal to Destruction. They win just as many Scenrios as Destruction and had there city to rank for several days before we did.
This didn't seem to work on the VNboards as everyone destruction side seems too narrow minded and wants to defend their turf but I will try again.
Seriously, reroll to a different server or re-roll order on averhiem. You are only as good as your opponents. If this city raid was not a huge wake up call to Destro on your server then nothing will be. You will never get good RvR until then.