One of my BIGGEST reasons to vote for McCain this year is that Democrats will likely have filibuster proof majorities in the house and senate this year. If that happens AND there is a democratic president.... if you thought Bush was bad, you'll have a democratic rubber stamp process for at least 2 years. And then there is Barney Frank the other day saying they will cut 25% of defense spending......... sorry, can't allow that kinda crap to go down.
Yeah, so our defense spending is only as much as the other top 10 countries in the world instead of the top 20.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Yup, his idea of "change" is "faster and more" of the same. Just like Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter (I could keep going back, all the way through FDR and Wilson, but you get the idea), he wants to make government bigger and our freedom smaller. The "change" is merely the rate, which he wants to increase.
Fishermage, the only way you're going to get the "freedom" you crave so much is to find yourself a deserted island and set up shop there.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
One of my BIGGEST reasons to vote for McCain this year is that Democrats will likely have filibuster proof majorities in the house and senate this year. If that happens AND there is a democratic president.... if you thought Bush was bad, you'll have a democratic rubber stamp process for at least 2 years. And then there is Barney Frank the other day saying they will cut 25% of defense spending......... sorry, can't allow that kinda crap to go down.
Democrats need a "super-majority" to fix (1) government, (2) wars, (3) economy, and (4) politics. I did not even touch health care, the tax code, infrastructure, or education.
Defense is NOT troops. Defense is defense contractors. I am 100% behind the U.S. military. I love our military, the value system, and how it works for America's best interests. The Defense contractors are for-profit institutions.
The amount of fraud, waste, and "lost" money in Iraq and at the Pentagon is extraordinary.
There are not enough auditors to "find" the money (it is stolen).
Codicil
For YOUR benefit I have attempted to show the revolving door of bankers and government.
The people approving defense contracts leave the military and get great jobs.
There is more fraud in "defense" than anywhere else I am aware of in the - world.
You do realize that protecting our ALLIES is part of defending our country don't you? IF they fall so do we. We went into Iraq, not for our interests but to preserve Europe. why do you think Britain never allowed NATO to vote on it? they pulled it from the floor, because they knew this had to be. Unless Europe is set free from Russian oil , they will continued to be under the strong arm of Russia. It is a matter of securing Europes future for the US to keep the oil flowing from Iraq to Europe.
Yup, his idea of "change" is "faster and more" of the same. Just like Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter (I could keep going back, all the way through FDR and Wilson, but you get the idea), he wants to make government bigger and our freedom smaller. The "change" is merely the rate, which he wants to increase.
Fishermage, the only way you're going to get the "freedom" you crave so much is to find yourself a deserted island and set up shop there.
Ah, more bogus hyperbole from you, simply for the purpose of attack, how refreshing.
I just want more freedom; not less. You want less; not more. That is the difference between us. That and I don't rely on personal attacks.
You do realize that protecting our ALLIES is part of defending our country don't you? IF they fall so do we. We went into Iraq, not for our interests but to preserve Europe. why do you think Britain never allowed NATO to vote on it? they pulled it from the floor, because they knew this had to be. Unless Europe is set free from Russian oil , they will continued to be under the strong arm of Russia. It is a matter of securing Europes future for the US to keep the oil flowing from Iraq to Europe.
I will make an exception once, but only this once in reading ALL red text. Though I suspect I am going to regret it. LOL.
What does fraud, waste, and "lost" (stolen) money have to do with regional alliances?
EU countries have a stronger, and better, economy than the US. Let the EU build an military to counter the "threat" of Russia.
It is why EU citizens are so much healthier, brighter, and happier than US citizens... instead of having military waste, fraud, and lost money, they invest it into their own people.
You do realize that protecting our ALLIES is part of defending our country don't you? IF they fall so do we. We went into Iraq, not for our interests but to preserve Europe. why do you think Britain never allowed NATO to vote on it? they pulled it from the floor, because they knew this had to be. Unless Europe is set free from Russian oil , they will continued to be under the strong arm of Russia. It is a matter of securing Europes future for the US to keep the oil flowing from Iraq to Europe.
I will make an exception once, but only this once in reading ALL red text. Though I suspect I am going to regret it. LOL.
What does fraud, waste, and "lost" (stolen) money have to do with regional alliances?
EU countries have a stronger, and better, economy than the US. Let the EU build an military to counter the "threat" of Russia.
It is why EU citizens are so much healthier, brighter, and happier than US citizens... instead of having military waste, fraud, and lost money, they invest it into their own people.
Healthier, brighter, and happier, as defined by whom and using what parameters for such subjective things?
Yup, his idea of "change" is "faster and more" of the same. Just like Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter (I could keep going back, all the way through FDR and Wilson, but you get the idea), he wants to make government bigger and our freedom smaller. The "change" is merely the rate, which he wants to increase.
Fishermage, the only way you're going to get the "freedom" you crave so much is to find yourself a deserted island and set up shop there.
He already tried that. Some guy showed up with a camera crew and a bunch of people broken up into two "tribes". They kept talking about immunity challenges, and playing stupid games all over the island for some stupid idol. One short, fat, middle aged guy even walked around the island all day with his clothes off. No, I know what you're thinking, it wasn't me....
Fishermage moved back here for the peace and quite.
You do realize that protecting our ALLIES is part of defending our country don't you? IF they fall so do we. We went into Iraq, not for our interests but to preserve Europe. why do you think Britain never allowed NATO to vote on it? they pulled it from the floor, because they knew this had to be. Unless Europe is set free from Russian oil , they will continued to be under the strong arm of Russia. It is a matter of securing Europes future for the US to keep the oil flowing from Iraq to Europe.
I will make an exception once, but only this once in reading ALL red text. Though I suspect I am going to regret it. LOL.
What does fraud, waste, and "lost" (stolen) money have to do with regional alliances?
EU countries have a stronger, and better, economy than the US. Let the EU build an military to counter the "threat" of Russia.
It is why EU citizens are so much healthier, brighter, and happier than US citizens... instead of having military waste, fraud, and lost money, they invest it into their own people.
Healthier, brighter, and happier, as defined by whom and using what parameters for such subjective things?
I have already shown the United States Human Development Index, which you can find somewhere buried in my previous posts.
Europeans control their governments. Their health care systems are less expensive, efficient, and provide superior care. In fact, pharmaceutical drugs are cheaper in the EU than in the USA because the government will not let these companies exploit sick people. Disclosure: I am a shareholder of Pfizer.
If we want to build the military and bankers, it will come at the cost and expense of the public, including their waste, fraud, irresponsbility, and "lost" money.
Yup, his idea of "change" is "faster and more" of the same. Just like Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter (I could keep going back, all the way through FDR and Wilson, but you get the idea), he wants to make government bigger and our freedom smaller. The "change" is merely the rate, which he wants to increase.
Fishermage, the only way you're going to get the "freedom" you crave so much is to find yourself a deserted island and set up shop there.
Ah, more bogus hyperbole from you, simply for the purpose of attack, how refreshing.
I just want more freedom; not less. You want less; not more. That is the difference between us. That and I don't rely on personal attacks.
Bogus hyperbole? You don't seem to grasp that the fundamental problem is that your freedom ends at my nose.
I understand that my freedom is restricted because I'm not alone. I don't have unlimited freedom of action except where it can't possibly impact on the freedom of another.
The tension is in a balancing act between the freedom of individuals. If men were angels, there would be no need of government. Your freedom to set up a hog rendering plant infringes on my freedom to not have to smell the results of yours.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
You do realize that protecting our ALLIES is part of defending our country don't you? IF they fall so do we. We went into Iraq, not for our interests but to preserve Europe. why do you think Britain never allowed NATO to vote on it? they pulled it from the floor, because they knew this had to be. Unless Europe is set free from Russian oil , they will continued to be under the strong arm of Russia. It is a matter of securing Europes future for the US to keep the oil flowing from Iraq to Europe.
I will make an exception once, but only this once in reading ALL red text. Though I suspect I am going to regret it. LOL.
What does fraud, waste, and "lost" (stolen) money have to do with regional alliances?
EU countries have a stronger, and better, economy than the US. Let the EU build an military to counter the "threat" of Russia.
It is why EU citizens are so much healthier, brighter, and happier than US citizens... instead of having military waste, fraud, and lost money, they invest it into their own people.
You should have read it more than once :P if you read my mile long post with all of the links to everything that is actually going on in our world, you would fully understand why our war expenses MUST be increased instead of decreased. THERE IS NO WAY to stop this war. Pg5 of this post half way down.. yea the really long posts detailing why we have to spend money on this war:
The amount in fraud, lost, and stolen money is not going to put a dent into this budget honestly, yea we need to put a stop to that, but we need to pump alot more into this in the very near future. Not really any way around it. Why are so many Europeans mving to the US? because of they cannot start their own business there and be competitve due to the system. You want to think it is a paradise for all, that is simply not the case, they are comming here for a reason. LOL!
Siobabble...nearly the whole of your post was to establish that freedom does not extend to the freedom to harm others, or that freedom of one does not extend to the infringement of the freedoms of others...to that I think that everybody on this forum can give you a big resounding "Duh"
Stop trying to argue by making points that we are all well aware of...You don't need to play the "I'm so much smarter than you that I need to explain this" card...Since at this point you're merely playing with semantics rather than the actual points being made.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Yup, his idea of "change" is "faster and more" of the same. Just like Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter (I could keep going back, all the way through FDR and Wilson, but you get the idea), he wants to make government bigger and our freedom smaller. The "change" is merely the rate, which he wants to increase.
Fishermage, the only way you're going to get the "freedom" you crave so much is to find yourself a deserted island and set up shop there.
Ah, more bogus hyperbole from you, simply for the purpose of attack, how refreshing.
I just want more freedom; not less. You want less; not more. That is the difference between us. That and I don't rely on personal attacks.
Bogus hyperbole? You don't seem to grasp that the fundamental problem is that your freedom ends at my nose.
I understand that my freedom is restricted because I'm not alone. I don't have unlimited freedom of action except where it can't possibly impact on the freedom of another.
The tension is in a balancing act between the freedom of individuals. If men were angels, there would be no need of government. Your freedom to set up a hog rendering plant infringes on my freedom to not have to smell the results of yours.
Ah, more personal attacks about what I do and do not "grasp."
I also understand that freedom is restricted necause I am not alone. I don't want you to have unlimited freedom of action, nor do I ask that for myself -- you are arguing against a straw man, once again.
I don't know who are what you are arguing against, but it has nothing to do with me or my views.
I am more concerned about the core of this country. The decent, hard-working, and often God-fearing bread-winners of this great nation.
You just keep expanding government on them and make them pay more taxes as they make more money. Section 62, Internal Revenue Code, trade and business deductions, very, very few for ordinary workers.
Build America Again (not Iraq)
Investing in Banks, Defense (Contractors) and Corporate Farms is not making us smarter, healthier, wiser, more prosperous, or "safe." It is bankrupting our government. Our government is the public. The "government" is not in debt. YOU are.
Important Edit: The military has been over-streched. There are more sophisticated subs in nordic countries and more advanced planes in Russia.
We lost a decade of our military superiority.
It is troubling. But we cannot totally suck out from this country every cent and penny to fund all the waste, fraud, and lost money in defense.
Ah, more personal attacks about what I do and do not "grasp." I also understand that freedom is restricted necause I am not alone. I don't want you to have unlimited freedom of action, nor do I ask that for myself -- you are arguing against a straw man, once again. I don't know who are what you are arguing against, but it has nothing to do with me or my views.
Oh, it does apply to you. Very much so. Because you consistently display very little understanding of how society actually works. All these terrible "restrictions" on your "freedom" are there because someone before created a situtation that required a restriction to preserve the rights and freedoms of others.
All these terrible regulations were not promulgated just for the sake of cramping your style, you know. That is not to say that they should be written in stone, but it also means that they should not be tossed aside casually, as the restrictions of Glass-Stegall were in 1999 which directly led to the mess we have now.
I'm attacking an infantile "philosophy" which you seem to have wholly embraced and seems for you at least to constitute the core of your being. If your "philosophy" can't stand criticism, then go now.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
You do realize that protecting our ALLIES is part of defending our country don't you? IF they fall so do we. We went into Iraq, not for our interests but to preserve Europe. why do you think Britain never allowed NATO to vote on it? they pulled it from the floor, because they knew this had to be. Unless Europe is set free from Russian oil , they will continued to be under the strong arm of Russia. It is a matter of securing Europes future for the US to keep the oil flowing from Iraq to Europe.
WOW ......I guess the biggest problem with this is the idea that going to War with Iraq is a good way to effect this outcome. I wish anyone could explain to me how making Iran the dominate player in the Middle East (The only real effect of this War) is good for anyone other than Iran. We went to War in Iraq for two reasons. Bush was a psychopath and Blair was weak. The outcome has and will continue to be a disaster.
Still, the Islamic fundamentalist have made out pretty well over the deal. Hey Bush note to self when you have two equally strength, sized and diametrically opposed groups in a enemy region.....leave them alone. They tend to fight it out among them self. You destroy one, they just become one bigger enemy.....dummy.
I say it again, failure of this magnitude must be punished or our system of government losses all credibility. VOTE DEMOCRAT!
I am more concerned about the core of this country. The decent, hard-working, and often God-fearing bread-winners of this great nation.
You just keep expanding government on them and make them pay more taxes as they make more money. Section 62, Internal Revenue Code, trade and business deductions, very, very few for ordinary workers.
Build America Again (not Iraq) Investing in Banks, Defense (Contractors) and Corporate Farms is not making us smarter, healthier, wiser, more prosperous, or "safe." It is bankrupting our government. Our government is the public. The "government" is not in debt. YOU are.
Important Edit: The military has been over-streched. There are more sophisticated subs in nordic countries and more advanced planes in Russia. We lost a decade of our military superiority. It is troubling. But we cannot totally suck out from this country every cent and penny to fund all the waste, fraud, and lost money in defense.
I am not the one deciding that this must be, even Obama and Biden realize this must be, they sure as hell are not going to be able to prevent this, it has already been set into motion. There is NO candidate that can stop this, It is just one of those things, This is not " my war" Hell I wish we could go back to our baseball games and popcorn. If we let Iraq implode, WE WILL HAVE THE LARGEST HOLY WAR THIS WORLD HAS EVER SEEN.
Instead of doing as we did in WW2 and support our troops, we rant about things we cannot stop? We still are paying off our WW2 debt. What did we learn from WW2? Oh yea if we wait too long and allow them to act first they will just come here and attack us. These countries do not simply want to go mind their own business and leave us alone .. no they wish to wipe us from the face of the earth and are willing to do anything to do so, if we sit back and do nothing they WILL accomplish this.
You do realize that protecting our ALLIES is part of defending our country don't you? IF they fall so do we. We went into Iraq, not for our interests but to preserve Europe. why do you think Britain never allowed NATO to vote on it? they pulled it from the floor, because they knew this had to be. Unless Europe is set free from Russian oil , they will continued to be under the strong arm of Russia. It is a matter of securing Europes future for the US to keep the oil flowing from Iraq to Europe.
WOW ......I guess the biggest problem with this is the idea that going to War with Iraq is a good way to effect this outcome. I wish anyone could explain to me how making Iran the dominate player in the Middle East (The only real effect of this War) is good for anyone other than Iran. We went to War in Iraq for two reasons. Bush was a psychopath and Blair was weak. The outcome has and will continue to be a disaster.
Still, the Islamic fundamentalist have made out pretty well over the deal. Hey Bush note to self when you have two equally strength, sized and diametrically opposed groups in a enemy region.....leave them alone. They tend to fight it out among them self. You destroy one, they just become one bigger enemy.....dummy.
I say it again, failure of this magnitude must be punished or our system of government losses all credibility. VOTE DEMOCRAT!
NATO being in charge of Afgahnistan, not us, the IRAQ war, The attack on Georgia, the threat to Uk and Poland are ALL PART OF THIS. WE agreed to give EUrope the oil they need by securing Iraq, while they went to take care of business in Afganhistan it is pretty simply once you calculate in all the facts. People keep trying to solve the equation with half of the information .... We are not the only ones at war here, ALL of our allies are fighting this for a reason too. No one wants to come out and say it but WW3 has already started.
WE WILL HAVE THE LARGEST HOLY WAR THIS WORLD HAS EVER SEEN.
lol.
do you not read any of the links in that other thread? You would have to be blind not to see what is happening here. We have all these holy rollers of all religions trying to start armrgeddon where the Tigris and Euphrates river meets.. know where that is? LOL!@ the only reason they stayed out of Iraq before was they were terrified of Saddam and now we are the only reason they stay out .. what happens when we leave? Well.. It isn't going to be funny .. that is for sure.
You do realize that protecting our ALLIES is part of defending our country don't you? IF they fall so do we. We went into Iraq, not for our interests but to preserve Europe. why do you think Britain never allowed NATO to vote on it? they pulled it from the floor, because they knew this had to be. Unless Europe is set free from Russian oil , they will continued to be under the strong arm of Russia. It is a matter of securing Europes future for the US to keep the oil flowing from Iraq to Europe.
WOW ......I guess the biggest problem with this is the idea that going to War with Iraq is a good way to effect this outcome. I wish anyone could explain to me how making Iran the dominate player in the Middle East (The only real effect of this War) is good for anyone other than Iran. We went to War in Iraq for two reasons. Bush was a psychopath and Blair was weak. The outcome has and will continue to be a disaster.
Still, the Islamic fundamentalist have made out pretty well over the deal. Hey Bush note to self when you have two equally strength, sized and diametrically opposed groups in a enemy region.....leave them alone. They tend to fight it out among them self. You destroy one, they just become one bigger enemy.....dummy.
I say it again, failure of this magnitude must be punished or our system of government losses all credibility. VOTE DEMOCRAT!
NATO being in charge of Afgahnistan, not us, the IRAQ war, The attack on Georgia, the threat to Uk and Poland are ALL PART OF THIS. WE agreed to give EUrope the oil they need by securing Iraq, while they went to take care of business in Afganhistan it is pretty simply once you calculate in all the facts. People keep trying to solve the equation with half of the information .... We are not the only ones at war here, ALL of our allies are fighting this for a reason too. No one wants to come out and say it but WW3 has already started.
OK.....I going to stop here, but I will say this. When people only give you half the truth and make search and claw for the rest. It's because there lying to you.
I love how people try to get others to change their minds on who to vote for, it's not gonna work. I decided to go Obama because the Mccain people won't shutup.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
OK.....I going to stop here, but I will say this. When people only give you half the truth and make search and claw for the rest. It's because there lying to you.
That is what politicians are supposed to do. If you know anything of foreign politics you will know this is how it has always been and how it must be. Britain had to have the US go into Iraq and vocally oppose it in order to calm Russia. Other wise Russia would take it out on Europe. We allow the US to take the blame for everything because it is better for the whole picture here. You must have an understanding of military strategy and foreign politics to see the whole picture here. Nothing is ever cut and dry in war.
There is no "clawing for the truth" it is apparant if you only wish to open your eyes and see it. Georgia has the only oil lines from the middle east running to Europe, Russia bombed those lines for a reason. Europe NEEDS Iraqi oil to break free from Russia. The Ukraine tried to stop Russian oil monopoly, Poland is the staging point for Russia to enter Europe if they were going to Attack it. This is not something you have to "claw " to find, it is common Knowledge. Russia threatened Poland if they tried to increase their defense, why would they care if they were not planning on attacking them? Do I need to elaborate what is going on in the middle east as well? or have you been keeping up with at least that? LOL!
I love how people try to get others to change their minds on who to vote for, it's not gonna work. I decided to go Obama because the Mccain people won't shutup.
This is probably one of the most idiotic things that I have ever read.
Picture perfect numb beligerance
ps to newcomers to political debate on this forum: Stop just telling people that they are misinformed...if you want to debate, debate facts...don't simply sit and call people misinformed without backing up your assertion
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I love how people try to get others to change their minds on who to vote for, it's not gonna work. I decided to go Obama because the Mccain people won't shutup.
This is probably one of the most idiotic things that I have ever read.
Picture perfect numb beligerance
ps to newcomers to political debate on this forum: Stop just telling people that they are misinformed...if you want to debate, debate facts...don't simply sit and call people misinformed without backing up your assertion
was actually being sarcastic (never been so good with that ), but i'm serious with the people trying to change each others minds...and anyways what political debate? only thing that happens on these forums is mud slinging, which is pretty pathetic.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Comments
Yeah, so our defense spending is only as much as the other top 10 countries in the world instead of the top 20.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Fishermage, the only way you're going to get the "freedom" you crave so much is to find yourself a deserted island and set up shop there.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Codicil
For YOUR benefit I have attempted to show the revolving door of bankers and government.
The people approving defense contracts leave the military and get great jobs.
There is more fraud in "defense" than anywhere else I am aware of in the - world.
You do realize that protecting our ALLIES is part of defending our country don't you? IF they fall so do we. We went into Iraq, not for our interests but to preserve Europe. why do you think Britain never allowed NATO to vote on it? they pulled it from the floor, because they knew this had to be. Unless Europe is set free from Russian oil , they will continued to be under the strong arm of Russia. It is a matter of securing Europes future for the US to keep the oil flowing from Iraq to Europe.
Fishermage, the only way you're going to get the "freedom" you crave so much is to find yourself a deserted island and set up shop there.
Ah, more bogus hyperbole from you, simply for the purpose of attack, how refreshing.
I just want more freedom; not less. You want less; not more. That is the difference between us. That and I don't rely on personal attacks.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I will make an exception once, but only this once in reading ALL red text. Though I suspect I am going to regret it. LOL.
What does fraud, waste, and "lost" (stolen) money have to do with regional alliances?
EU countries have a stronger, and better, economy than the US. Let the EU build an military to counter the "threat" of Russia.
It is why EU citizens are so much healthier, brighter, and happier than US citizens... instead of having military waste, fraud, and lost money, they invest it into their own people.
I will make an exception once, but only this once in reading ALL red text. Though I suspect I am going to regret it. LOL.
What does fraud, waste, and "lost" (stolen) money have to do with regional alliances?
EU countries have a stronger, and better, economy than the US. Let the EU build an military to counter the "threat" of Russia.
It is why EU citizens are so much healthier, brighter, and happier than US citizens... instead of having military waste, fraud, and lost money, they invest it into their own people.
Healthier, brighter, and happier, as defined by whom and using what parameters for such subjective things?
fishermage.blogspot.com
Fishermage, the only way you're going to get the "freedom" you crave so much is to find yourself a deserted island and set up shop there.
He already tried that. Some guy showed up with a camera crew and a bunch of people broken up into two "tribes". They kept talking about immunity challenges, and playing stupid games all over the island for some stupid idol. One short, fat, middle aged guy even walked around the island all day with his clothes off. No, I know what you're thinking, it wasn't me....
Fishermage moved back here for the peace and quite.
I will make an exception once, but only this once in reading ALL red text. Though I suspect I am going to regret it. LOL.
What does fraud, waste, and "lost" (stolen) money have to do with regional alliances?
EU countries have a stronger, and better, economy than the US. Let the EU build an military to counter the "threat" of Russia.
It is why EU citizens are so much healthier, brighter, and happier than US citizens... instead of having military waste, fraud, and lost money, they invest it into their own people.
Healthier, brighter, and happier, as defined by whom and using what parameters for such subjective things?
I have already shown the United States Human Development Index, which you can find somewhere buried in my previous posts.
Europeans control their governments. Their health care systems are less expensive, efficient, and provide superior care. In fact, pharmaceutical drugs are cheaper in the EU than in the USA because the government will not let these companies exploit sick people. Disclosure: I am a shareholder of Pfizer.
If we want to build the military and bankers, it will come at the cost and expense of the public, including their waste, fraud, irresponsbility, and "lost" money.
Fishermage, the only way you're going to get the "freedom" you crave so much is to find yourself a deserted island and set up shop there.
Ah, more bogus hyperbole from you, simply for the purpose of attack, how refreshing.
I just want more freedom; not less. You want less; not more. That is the difference between us. That and I don't rely on personal attacks.
Bogus hyperbole? You don't seem to grasp that the fundamental problem is that your freedom ends at my nose.
I understand that my freedom is restricted because I'm not alone. I don't have unlimited freedom of action except where it can't possibly impact on the freedom of another.
The tension is in a balancing act between the freedom of individuals. If men were angels, there would be no need of government. Your freedom to set up a hog rendering plant infringes on my freedom to not have to smell the results of yours.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
I will make an exception once, but only this once in reading ALL red text. Though I suspect I am going to regret it. LOL.
What does fraud, waste, and "lost" (stolen) money have to do with regional alliances?
EU countries have a stronger, and better, economy than the US. Let the EU build an military to counter the "threat" of Russia.
It is why EU citizens are so much healthier, brighter, and happier than US citizens... instead of having military waste, fraud, and lost money, they invest it into their own people.
You should have read it more than once :P if you read my mile long post with all of the links to everything that is actually going on in our world, you would fully understand why our war expenses MUST be increased instead of decreased. THERE IS NO WAY to stop this war. Pg5 of this post half way down.. yea the really long posts detailing why we have to spend money on this war:
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/209063/page/5
The amount in fraud, lost, and stolen money is not going to put a dent into this budget honestly, yea we need to put a stop to that, but we need to pump alot more into this in the very near future. Not really any way around it. Why are so many Europeans mving to the US? because of they cannot start their own business there and be competitve due to the system. You want to think it is a paradise for all, that is simply not the case, they are comming here for a reason. LOL!
Siobabble...nearly the whole of your post was to establish that freedom does not extend to the freedom to harm others, or that freedom of one does not extend to the infringement of the freedoms of others...to that I think that everybody on this forum can give you a big resounding "Duh"
Stop trying to argue by making points that we are all well aware of...You don't need to play the "I'm so much smarter than you that I need to explain this" card...Since at this point you're merely playing with semantics rather than the actual points being made.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Fishermage, the only way you're going to get the "freedom" you crave so much is to find yourself a deserted island and set up shop there.
Ah, more bogus hyperbole from you, simply for the purpose of attack, how refreshing.
I just want more freedom; not less. You want less; not more. That is the difference between us. That and I don't rely on personal attacks.
Bogus hyperbole? You don't seem to grasp that the fundamental problem is that your freedom ends at my nose.
I understand that my freedom is restricted because I'm not alone. I don't have unlimited freedom of action except where it can't possibly impact on the freedom of another.
The tension is in a balancing act between the freedom of individuals. If men were angels, there would be no need of government. Your freedom to set up a hog rendering plant infringes on my freedom to not have to smell the results of yours.
Ah, more personal attacks about what I do and do not "grasp."
I also understand that freedom is restricted necause I am not alone. I don't want you to have unlimited freedom of action, nor do I ask that for myself -- you are arguing against a straw man, once again.
I don't know who are what you are arguing against, but it has nothing to do with me or my views.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Well, devil, so long as you can pay for it.
I am more concerned about the core of this country. The decent, hard-working, and often God-fearing bread-winners of this great nation.
You just keep expanding government on them and make them pay more taxes as they make more money. Section 62, Internal Revenue Code, trade and business deductions, very, very few for ordinary workers.
Build America Again (not Iraq)
Investing in Banks, Defense (Contractors) and Corporate Farms is not making us smarter, healthier, wiser, more prosperous, or "safe." It is bankrupting our government. Our government is the public. The "government" is not in debt. YOU are.
Important Edit: The military has been over-streched. There are more sophisticated subs in nordic countries and more advanced planes in Russia.
We lost a decade of our military superiority.
It is troubling. But we cannot totally suck out from this country every cent and penny to fund all the waste, fraud, and lost money in defense.
Oh, it does apply to you. Very much so. Because you consistently display very little understanding of how society actually works. All these terrible "restrictions" on your "freedom" are there because someone before created a situtation that required a restriction to preserve the rights and freedoms of others.
All these terrible regulations were not promulgated just for the sake of cramping your style, you know. That is not to say that they should be written in stone, but it also means that they should not be tossed aside casually, as the restrictions of Glass-Stegall were in 1999 which directly led to the mess we have now.
I'm attacking an infantile "philosophy" which you seem to have wholly embraced and seems for you at least to constitute the core of your being. If your "philosophy" can't stand criticism, then go now.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
WOW ......I guess the biggest problem with this is the idea that going to War with Iraq is a good way to effect this outcome. I wish anyone could explain to me how making Iran the dominate player in the Middle East (The only real effect of this War) is good for anyone other than Iran. We went to War in Iraq for two reasons. Bush was a psychopath and Blair was weak. The outcome has and will continue to be a disaster.
Still, the Islamic fundamentalist have made out pretty well over the deal. Hey Bush note to self when you have two equally strength, sized and diametrically opposed groups in a enemy region.....leave them alone. They tend to fight it out among them self. You destroy one, they just become one bigger enemy.....dummy.
I say it again, failure of this magnitude must be punished or our system of government losses all credibility. VOTE DEMOCRAT!
I am not the one deciding that this must be, even Obama and Biden realize this must be, they sure as hell are not going to be able to prevent this, it has already been set into motion. There is NO candidate that can stop this, It is just one of those things, This is not " my war" Hell I wish we could go back to our baseball games and popcorn. If we let Iraq implode, WE WILL HAVE THE LARGEST HOLY WAR THIS WORLD HAS EVER SEEN.
Instead of doing as we did in WW2 and support our troops, we rant about things we cannot stop? We still are paying off our WW2 debt. What did we learn from WW2? Oh yea if we wait too long and allow them to act first they will just come here and attack us. These countries do not simply want to go mind their own business and leave us alone .. no they wish to wipe us from the face of the earth and are willing to do anything to do so, if we sit back and do nothing they WILL accomplish this.
WOW ......I guess the biggest problem with this is the idea that going to War with Iraq is a good way to effect this outcome. I wish anyone could explain to me how making Iran the dominate player in the Middle East (The only real effect of this War) is good for anyone other than Iran. We went to War in Iraq for two reasons. Bush was a psychopath and Blair was weak. The outcome has and will continue to be a disaster.
Still, the Islamic fundamentalist have made out pretty well over the deal. Hey Bush note to self when you have two equally strength, sized and diametrically opposed groups in a enemy region.....leave them alone. They tend to fight it out among them self. You destroy one, they just become one bigger enemy.....dummy.
I say it again, failure of this magnitude must be punished or our system of government losses all credibility. VOTE DEMOCRAT!
NATO being in charge of Afgahnistan, not us, the IRAQ war, The attack on Georgia, the threat to Uk and Poland are ALL PART OF THIS. WE agreed to give EUrope the oil they need by securing Iraq, while they went to take care of business in Afganhistan it is pretty simply once you calculate in all the facts. People keep trying to solve the equation with half of the information .... We are not the only ones at war here, ALL of our allies are fighting this for a reason too. No one wants to come out and say it but WW3 has already started.
lol.
lol.
do you not read any of the links in that other thread? You would have to be blind not to see what is happening here. We have all these holy rollers of all religions trying to start armrgeddon where the Tigris and Euphrates river meets.. know where that is? LOL!@ the only reason they stayed out of Iraq before was they were terrified of Saddam and now we are the only reason they stay out .. what happens when we leave? Well.. It isn't going to be funny .. that is for sure.
WOW ......I guess the biggest problem with this is the idea that going to War with Iraq is a good way to effect this outcome. I wish anyone could explain to me how making Iran the dominate player in the Middle East (The only real effect of this War) is good for anyone other than Iran. We went to War in Iraq for two reasons. Bush was a psychopath and Blair was weak. The outcome has and will continue to be a disaster.
Still, the Islamic fundamentalist have made out pretty well over the deal. Hey Bush note to self when you have two equally strength, sized and diametrically opposed groups in a enemy region.....leave them alone. They tend to fight it out among them self. You destroy one, they just become one bigger enemy.....dummy.
I say it again, failure of this magnitude must be punished or our system of government losses all credibility. VOTE DEMOCRAT!
NATO being in charge of Afgahnistan, not us, the IRAQ war, The attack on Georgia, the threat to Uk and Poland are ALL PART OF THIS. WE agreed to give EUrope the oil they need by securing Iraq, while they went to take care of business in Afganhistan it is pretty simply once you calculate in all the facts. People keep trying to solve the equation with half of the information .... We are not the only ones at war here, ALL of our allies are fighting this for a reason too. No one wants to come out and say it but WW3 has already started.
OK.....I going to stop here, but I will say this. When people only give you half the truth and make search and claw for the rest. It's because there lying to you.
I love how people try to get others to change their minds on who to vote for, it's not gonna work. I decided to go Obama because the Mccain people won't shutup.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
That is what politicians are supposed to do. If you know anything of foreign politics you will know this is how it has always been and how it must be. Britain had to have the US go into Iraq and vocally oppose it in order to calm Russia. Other wise Russia would take it out on Europe. We allow the US to take the blame for everything because it is better for the whole picture here. You must have an understanding of military strategy and foreign politics to see the whole picture here. Nothing is ever cut and dry in war.
There is no "clawing for the truth" it is apparant if you only wish to open your eyes and see it. Georgia has the only oil lines from the middle east running to Europe, Russia bombed those lines for a reason. Europe NEEDS Iraqi oil to break free from Russia. The Ukraine tried to stop Russian oil monopoly, Poland is the staging point for Russia to enter Europe if they were going to Attack it. This is not something you have to "claw " to find, it is common Knowledge. Russia threatened Poland if they tried to increase their defense, why would they care if they were not planning on attacking them? Do I need to elaborate what is going on in the middle east as well? or have you been keeping up with at least that? LOL!
This is probably one of the most idiotic things that I have ever read.
Picture perfect numb beligerance
ps to newcomers to political debate on this forum: Stop just telling people that they are misinformed...if you want to debate, debate facts...don't simply sit and call people misinformed without backing up your assertion
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
This is probably one of the most idiotic things that I have ever read.
Picture perfect numb beligerance
ps to newcomers to political debate on this forum: Stop just telling people that they are misinformed...if you want to debate, debate facts...don't simply sit and call people misinformed without backing up your assertion
was actually being sarcastic (never been so good with that
), but i'm serious with the people trying to change each others minds...and anyways what political debate? only thing that happens on these forums is mud slinging, which is pretty pathetic.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Ohh do tell me how I am misinformed?
I have been keeping up with what has been going on the whole time .. LOL!