I can't understand why anyone would want a game to be all one way or the other. I solo when I want and I group when I want. Why should I have to choose one playstyle over the other? The MMO genre has matured and today, there is no reason to choose. A great MMO will accomodate both playstyles.
IMO - People advocating forced grouping probably lack social skills. They'd rather you group with them because you have to than because you want to. It's sad really.
I'm sure someone has said this, but I don't have the patience to read the whole thread, so I'll say it again:
This is total BS. Any game can have plenty of solo-friendly content, and still have plenty of group content.
WoW is a perfect example. You can solo your way to 70, but you'll miss out on tons of fun stuff on the way, and you won't get any of the best gear.
Well it is nice that you can express your opinin so politely.
You should go debate your loot statement with the pro-solo'ers who believe they deserve raid-quality loot because they pay their money also ... and claim that they, as solo'ers put the same effort into the game.
I am against developing a game specifically to accommodate soloing.
Even then, I should be more clear... I am against setting the difficulty of a game to a solo'er level, thus making it trivial to group.
Perfect example... WAR. You can pull singles all day long out of groups of MOBs. That makes zero sense. It also means you don't have the challenge of breaking a spawn, or single-pulling, which was an art in itself, or using any other tactics. It was designed that way so solo'ers could succeed, and it absolutely took away the need to group for a lot of the game.
Soloing was possible in EQ, and I did so, even with a ranger, quite often. You have to know where to hunt, or play games with the zone-line to stay alive... or fear-kite, but you could do it. It just wasn't fast, it wasn't rewarding lootwise, and it was the ultimate in a tedious grind. But it was good that I could do it for the times I was waiting for a group or waiting on my guild to log in.
Well it is nice that you can express your opinin so politely. You should go debate your loot statement with the pro-solo'ers who believe they deserve raid-quality loot because they pay their money also ... and claim that they, as solo'ers put the same effort into the game.
I'm all for raid loot being uber even though I never raid and have no desire to do so. However, I don't see anything wrong with some uber solo loot that is challenging to get and can only be done solo.
In the end, devs should be concerned with whether or not their players -- ALL OF THEM -- are having fun. MMOs are not about who's epeener is bigger, so why go there? Virtual worlds are big enough to accomodate casuals, groupers, raiders, and everyone in between.
OK, all I can say is. Why do they call them Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Games if all we do is solo? Might as well make it a PS3 or Xbox360 game that is 1player lol.
As far as raiding...I like how WoW has done raiding...I did not ever raid in wow but not the point. They have dumbed it down quit a bit. what is it 10 man raids? Thats pretty easy to get together I would assume. Not like my days in EQ where it was 40-60-80 man raids. Ya there was alot of us lol, and spend hours upon hours for these raids. Don't get me wrong they were fun...but they were like a second job.
Back to the topic. MMOs Need group outside of Raid Content or Instances. And it doesn't take hours to find a group if you have to group to progress. It only takes hours to find a group if you don't have to group to gain anything.
OK, all I can say is. Why do they call them Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Games if all we do is solo? Might as well make it a PS3 or Xbox360 game that is 1player lol. As far as raiding...I like how WoW has done raiding...I did not ever raid in wow but not the point. They have dumbed it down quit a bit. what is it 10 man raids? Thats pretty easy to get together I would assume. Not like my days in EQ where it was 40-60-80 man raids. Ya there was alot of us lol, and spend hours upon hours for these raids. Don't get me wrong they were fun...but they were like a second job. Back to the topic. MMOs Need group outside of Raid Content or Instances. And it doesn't take hours to find a group if you have to group to progress. It only takes hours to find a group if you don't have to group to gain anything.
Where is the word "group" found in Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Games? You can be a part of a virtual world and interact in a number of ways with the community of that world without ever grouping. You can sell stuff and work the economy, you can talk to people without being grouped, you can buff people, you can roleplay, you can craft items to sell to others, you can be helpful to new players, etc, etc, etc. All of these things make you an active member of a virtual world and none of them require grouping.
Please try to understand that MMOs are about WORLDS, not groups. Grouping is an option, but it's far from being the only option.
As to your comment about the amount of time it takes to find a group -- it depends on a lot of things. How specific of a group do you need? I know of content that REQUIRES a specific group make up. That takes time. Many people avoid PUGs. That takes time. Some server populations are low or unbalanced. That takes time. It's not as black and white as you'd have people to believe.
Where is the word "group" found in Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Games? You can be a part of a virtual world and interact in a number of ways with the community of that world without ever grouping. You can sell stuff and work the economy, you can talk to people without being grouped, you can buff people, you can roleplay, you can craft items to sell to others, you can be helpful to new players, etc, etc, etc. All of these things make you an active member of a virtual world and none of them require grouping.
Well it is nice that you can express your opinin so politely. You should go debate your loot statement with the pro-solo'ers who believe they deserve raid-quality loot because they pay their money also ... and claim that they, as solo'ers put the same effort into the game.
I'm all for raid loot being uber even though I never raid and have no desire to do so. However, I don't see anything wrong with some uber solo loot that is challenging to get and can only be done solo.
In the end, devs should be concerned with whether or not their players -- ALL OF THEM -- are having fun. MMOs are not about who's epeener is bigger, so why go there? Virtual worlds are big enough to accomodate casuals, groupers, raiders, and everyone in between.
The problem is you can't design such a game.
If it's fun for solo players, I, as a group players, will find it lacking. If I can solo, then why bother with all the time and effort to group? It's pointless.
I"ve never seen anyone design a game that is good for solo and grouping equally. That's after playing EQ, EQ2, DAoC, CoH, LotRO, Auto Assault, Shadowbane, WAR, RF, and probably one or two I've forgotten.
It has nothing to do with "epeens", but about fun grouping. If you design a game where I find the grouping fun, the solo crowd is going to whine, no doubt about it.
OK, all I can say is. Why do they call them Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Games if all we do is solo? Might as well make it a PS3 or Xbox360 game that is 1player lol. As far as raiding...I like how WoW has done raiding...I did not ever raid in wow but not the point. They have dumbed it down quit a bit. what is it 10 man raids? Thats pretty easy to get together I would assume. Not like my days in EQ where it was 40-60-80 man raids. Ya there was alot of us lol, and spend hours upon hours for these raids. Don't get me wrong they were fun...but they were like a second job. Back to the topic. MMOs Need group outside of Raid Content or Instances. And it doesn't take hours to find a group if you have to group to progress. It only takes hours to find a group if you don't have to group to gain anything.
Where is the word "group" found in Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Games? You can be a part of a virtual world and interact in a number of ways with the community of that world without ever grouping. You can sell stuff and work the economy, you can talk to people without being grouped, you can buff people, you can roleplay, you can craft items to sell to others, you can be helpful to new players, etc, etc, etc. All of these things make you an active member of a virtual world and none of them require grouping.
Please try to understand that MMOs are about WORLDS, not groups. Grouping is an option, but it's far from being the only option.
As to your comment about the amount of time it takes to find a group -- it depends on a lot of things. How specific of a group do you need? I know of content that REQUIRES a specific group make up. That takes time. Many people avoid PUGs. That takes time. Some server populations are low or unbalanced. That takes time. It's not as black and white as you'd have people to believe.
I agree. A solo MMORPG is still an MMORPG. Just not something people that enjoy grouping will have fun with.
Soloing should be made impossible in an mmo when it comes to killing monsters. Mmo is not about soloing and those who solo Mmos i think they are unaware of stand alone PC games.
That is SILLY and i am glad that no developer will listen to this drivel.
Agreed.
Why should you dictate what people should do simply because you like/dislike a certain playstyle?
I like to group and solo. Sometimes I want to go out and adventure on my own, and sometimes I want to group up with a bunch of friends/strangers to accomplish something of greater difficult.y. There is no reason why you can't have the best of both worlds.
It's as if these guys feel that being dictatorial is a good thing.
Remember, the guy who posted the original post is the same guy who posted his 95 theses of contention as to why mmo's aren't for you if you don't meet his criteria... so go do something else. Then he comes here and says that people who solo are all about dictating what they want.
The only one I see dictating any behavior is the OP.
well you know what guys? Soloing is not about to go away. So you can either learn to live with it, gather your friends and play the way you want (which is what you should be doing in the first place) or move on to games that have more forced grouping or just not play anymore.
I'm sorry it's come down to this but you are simply not going to get your way. There are just different types of people out there. I know! crazy huh! And here you thought that everyone was exactly like you!
Hmm, I am not against soloing. But you solo a lot in crafting and delivery quest and may be into selling stuff to a player at a different part of the gaming playfield.
But if there are these solo options then I have seen that the game's playfield becomes infested with bots. Moreover people who are not that social or with linguistic skills say that it is a grind game and just stop playing it.
Going by the different dependent professions of Anarchy Online, I have seen that game has solo content but solo content is not bot infested. So I would like to see games more with the multiplayer part. This in my opinion reduces any chance of boting and also makes the game almost like a place where you log back in and find friends and have a great time.
I remember my days in Anarchy Online playing a Healer or other professions. While I was always asked to play the healer for the team but I was usually able to play my other Professions in as soon as the team gets a new good healer.
Taking the community into consideration, I have found that because Anarchy Online is a game where soloing won’t help, People usually use sweet words and no one dare to be rude or indifferent in the ongoing chat box.
I still am with the idea that if I wanna solo I go for stand alone PC games as they are better solo content compared to any Mmo out. But then again I am addicted to Mmos because I like the fun part of gaming together and playing as a team and trying the hardest levels and thus having the interest to play along. I still think most free to play games I have left besides Anarchy Online first part was because grinding alone with an infinite number of monsters is not the thing I would like to do.
Well kids will definitely like to post there pictures of soloing bosses and stuff but that do not show intelligence but shows one thing that "YOU ARE A KID" and you had never been doing any hard stuff in reality besides this game monster solo killing.
There is a poem for all soloers out there......
YOU SOLO I BOT
YOU PLAY , YOUR BACK I GOT.
Cheers Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Soloing should be made impossible in an mmo when it comes to killing monsters. Mmo is not about soloing and those who solo Mmos i think they are unaware of stand alone PC games.
That is SILLY and i am glad that no developer will listen to this drivel.
Geez!
And go on making tries on making Mmos throughout their lives .
The problem is Sourajit, that you are just wrong simply by the fact that people do it. It's beyond the pale to think that people who solo "don't know" about solo pc games.
Essentiall what it comes down to is that the reasons that people solo are so beyond you guys you can't understand it. We do it. And it boggles your mind. You can't put two and two together. So make as many declarations as you would like.
We will still do the solo content we want, we will group when we want and you "soloing = the devil", "I can't understand the concept so let's burn it at the stake as a witch" guys will just look on dumbfounded coming up with all sorts of inane ideas as to why people do it.
Let's see, what other inane things can we come up with? How about "People who play online video games can't make real relationships so they have to turn to faceless people who they can only relate to in a game". "People who need to group can't make friends and feel the need for forced interaction".
See? All inane because that's not necessarily true.
HeHe!
Intelligence or thinking beyond will just make me put a bot in the gaming playfield rather than soloing stuff. My other computer can just log in 24 hours in a game and make me game gold. This is what your idea of soloing makes an intelligent mind possible to do in a gaming playfield, on the contrtary i would definitely like a solo boss for each level you get, where bots will not help and if someone bots then the bot is stuck at that level. This eventually will have enough intellingence proving domain for people who wanna go beyond in a gaming world.I have nothing else to tell.
Who says Mmo is about face less people? May be Mmo is only a platform where you meet people and depending on their behaviour remember or forget them. Over this ten years of Mmo gaming i had many friends visiting me and my family and i have also gone to visit them in reality. If you are talking of solo content oriented games, I am sorry to say, i have never made friends there and always been a selfish gamer who could over-write the game through a few bots but then again never found a friend.
I would still go with forced grouping as this in-turn will teach kids to be good and respectful in communication and we have a didactic side of gaming also.
Cheers Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
First off after reading this thread and any other that equates to sandbox or group over solo blah blah. People need to learn the difference between "difficult" and "time sink". EQ is not a difficult game, nor is WoW nor is any mmo. EQ is a bigger timesink than WoW. Me pulling at an orc camp in WoW and leveling is not easier than me getting a group and pulling them in EQ. I mean is it really difficult to grind in a group? If you mean waiting for replacements, med time, afk's etc. That is not difficult, that is a timesink.
To the person who said earlier that soloing dumbed down ai was just boring i have a question. Do you seriously believe that EQ ai is more advanced that WoW's ai? seriously?
I prefer both types of playstyle and will personally gravitate away from any game that forces any type of playstyle. Getting rid of many mundane acts that cause downtime has done nothing but help MMO's. Am i the only guy that remembers "pull and go make a samwich" came from EQ? Boring stuff. I also agree that WoW took it too far by allowing epics for an easy scenario grind. I still think loot should go raiders, dungeons grinders, quest grinders-solo. In that order from best to worst. PVP gear should only be useable in flagged encounters, scenarios or arenas (wow).
But i also agree with the poster that said solo or casual friendly play has only helped advance the genre. There are no doubting the jump in overall interest and subs from late 90's to present. More money=more innovation. Even if its slow.
Soloing should be made impossible in an mmo when it comes to killing monsters. Mmo is not about soloing and those who solo Mmos i think they are unaware of stand alone PC games.
That is SILLY and i am glad that no developer will listen to this drivel.
Geez!
And go on making tries on making Mmos throughout their lives .
The problem is Sourajit, that you are just wrong simply by the fact that people do it. It's beyond the pale to think that people who solo "don't know" about solo pc games.
Essentiall what it comes down to is that the reasons that people solo are so beyond you guys you can't understand it. We do it. And it boggles your mind. You can't put two and two together. So make as many declarations as you would like.
We will still do the solo content we want, we will group when we want and you "soloing = the devil", "I can't understand the concept so let's burn it at the stake as a witch" guys will just look on dumbfounded coming up with all sorts of inane ideas as to why people do it.
Let's see, what other inane things can we come up with? How about "People who play online video games can't make real relationships so they have to turn to faceless people who they can only relate to in a game". "People who need to group can't make friends and feel the need for forced interaction".
See? All inane because that's not necessarily true.
HeHe!
Intelligence or thinking beyond will just make me put a bot in the gaming playfield rather than soloing stuff. My other computer can just log in 24 hours in a game and make me game gold. This is what your idea of soloing makes an intelligent mind possible to do in a gaming playfield, on the contrtary i would definitely like a solo boss for each level you get, where bots will not help and if someone bots then the bot is stuck at that level. This eventually will have enough intellingence proving domain for people who wanna go beyond in a gaming world.I have nothing else to tell.
Who says Mmo is about face less people? May be Mmo is only a platform where you meet people and depending on their behaviour remember or forget them. Over this ten years of Mmo gaming i had many friends visiting me and my family and i have also gone to visit them in reality. If you are talking of solo content oriented games, I am sorry to say, i have never made friends there and always been a selfish gamer who could over-write the game through a few bots but then again never found a friend.
I would still go with forced grouping as this in-turn will teach kids to be good and respectful in communication and we have a didactic side of gaming also.
I don't think you understood my point. I am saying that one could easily say that they are faceless people or that people who play online games are maladjusted or can't interact with society but that is not necessarily true.
Just like people who solo are maladusted and lone wolf mavericks who want everything their own way. Not necessarily true. There is more than one way to enjoy online games and to be social. Grouping is just one way.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
First off after reading this thread and any other that equates to sandbox or group over solo blah blah. People need to learn the difference between "difficult" and "time sink". EQ is not a difficult game, nor is WoW nor is any mmo. EQ is a bigger timesink than WoW. Me pulling at an orc camp in WoW and leveling is not easier than me getting a group and pulling them in EQ. I mean is it really difficult to grind in a group? If you mean waiting for replacements, med time, afk's etc. That is not difficult, that is a timesink. To the person who said earlier that soloing dumbed down ai was just boring i have a question. Do you seriously believe that EQ ai is more advanced that WoW's ai? seriously? I prefer both types of playstyle and will personally gravitate away from any game that forces any type of playstyle. Getting rid of many mundane acts that cause downtime has done nothing but help MMO's. Am i the only guy that remembers "pull and go make a samwich" came from EQ? Boring stuff. I also agree that WoW took it too far by allowing epics for an easy scenario grind. I still think loot should go raiders, dungeons grinders, quest grinders-solo. In that order from best to worst. PVP gear should only be useable in flagged encounters, scenarios or arenas (wow).
But i also agree with the poster that said solo or casual friendly play has only helped advance the genre. There are no doubting the jump in overall interest and subs from late 90's to present. More money=more innovation. Even if its slow.
I am not sure WoW or EQ has superior AI to each other.... as far as I can tell they were both the same.
when you take the simple example of being able to pull a single MOB out of a group, then i tisn';t so much MOB AI, as just game mechanics... and yes, it is much easier if the game lets you do that. It is also stupid and designed specifically to accommodate solo'ers.
I see less innovation in the last 2 years than the preceeding years.
EQ was HUGELY innovative.
WoW was a very big next step in a lot of ways.
I see nothing new or improved since WoW. (except maybe nicer water effects, whoopee). In fact, I only see regression in the industry.
Just like people who solo are maladusted and lone wolf mavericks who want everything their own way. Not necessarily true. There is more than one way to enjoy online games and to be social. Grouping is just one way.
Originally posted by Ihmotepp Not true. You mean MOST players don't want to do that. Obviously the OP does, and I do to. I could care less if I'm not maknig progress in an MMORPG because I can't find a group. I don't like playing MMORPGs solo, because it's as boring as watching paint dry. Therefore, if I can't find a group, and that means I can't make just as much progress solo, I"m not missing anything. I don't want to grind on Mobs with stupid A.I. and do stupid Fed X quests solo anyway. If I'm not in a group, there's no reason to play an MMORPG for me. I don't mind playing solo for the first 5-10 levels, just to learn how to play the game. I don't need to be in a group while I'm figuring out how to configure my GUI and stuff like that. But after that, just give me some mobs to wack on while I'm waiting for a group, and that's just fine.
Ihmotepp Is precisely correct.. MMO=Multi Massive Online. Hence, grouping. The "only" reason to play a multi player online game is to play with other live people. That was the reason MMOs were created. If someone wants a solo game, buy one that doesn't reqire a subscription fee.
To me, finding a group of people that I have a like mind with is part of the fun of the game all in itself. Then again, I also like leveling to be difficult and rewards meaningful. For me, it's about the struggle, the journey. Not the prize.
First off after reading this thread and any other that equates to sandbox or group over solo blah blah. People need to learn the difference between "difficult" and "time sink". EQ is not a difficult game, nor is WoW nor is any mmo. EQ is a bigger timesink than WoW. Me pulling at an orc camp in WoW and leveling is not easier than me getting a group and pulling them in EQ. I mean is it really difficult to grind in a group? If you mean waiting for replacements, med time, afk's etc. That is not difficult, that is a timesink. To the person who said earlier that soloing dumbed down ai was just boring i have a question. Do you seriously believe that EQ ai is more advanced that WoW's ai? seriously? I prefer both types of playstyle and will personally gravitate away from any game that forces any type of playstyle. Getting rid of many mundane acts that cause downtime has done nothing but help MMO's. Am i the only guy that remembers "pull and go make a samwich" came from EQ? Boring stuff. I also agree that WoW took it too far by allowing epics for an easy scenario grind. I still think loot should go raiders, dungeons grinders, quest grinders-solo. In that order from best to worst. PVP gear should only be useable in flagged encounters, scenarios or arenas (wow).
But i also agree with the poster that said solo or casual friendly play has only helped advance the genre. There are no doubting the jump in overall interest and subs from late 90's to present. More money=more innovation. Even if its slow.
True there, not much of any scope for botting in those games.
Cheers Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Soloing should be made impossible in an mmo when it comes to killing monsters. Mmo is not about soloing and those who solo Mmos i think they are unaware of stand alone PC games.
That is SILLY and i am glad that no developer will listen to this drivel.
Geez!
And go on making tries on making Mmos throughout their lives .
The problem is Sourajit, that you are just wrong simply by the fact that people do it. It's beyond the pale to think that people who solo "don't know" about solo pc games.
Essentiall what it comes down to is that the reasons that people solo are so beyond you guys you can't understand it. We do it. And it boggles your mind. You can't put two and two together. So make as many declarations as you would like.
We will still do the solo content we want, we will group when we want and you "soloing = the devil", "I can't understand the concept so let's burn it at the stake as a witch" guys will just look on dumbfounded coming up with all sorts of inane ideas as to why people do it.
Let's see, what other inane things can we come up with? How about "People who play online video games can't make real relationships so they have to turn to faceless people who they can only relate to in a game". "People who need to group can't make friends and feel the need for forced interaction".
See? All inane because that's not necessarily true.
HeHe!
Intelligence or thinking beyond will just make me put a bot in the gaming playfield rather than soloing stuff. My other computer can just log in 24 hours in a game and make me game gold. This is what your idea of soloing makes an intelligent mind possible to do in a gaming playfield, on the contrtary i would definitely like a solo boss for each level you get, where bots will not help and if someone bots then the bot is stuck at that level. This eventually will have enough intellingence proving domain for people who wanna go beyond in a gaming world.I have nothing else to tell.
Who says Mmo is about face less people? May be Mmo is only a platform where you meet people and depending on their behaviour remember or forget them. Over this ten years of Mmo gaming i had many friends visiting me and my family and i have also gone to visit them in reality. If you are talking of solo content oriented games, I am sorry to say, i have never made friends there and always been a selfish gamer who could over-write the game through a few bots but then again never found a friend.
I would still go with forced grouping as this in-turn will teach kids to be good and respectful in communication and we have a didactic side of gaming also.
I don't think you understood my point. I am saying that one could easily say that they are faceless people or that people who play online games are maladjusted or can't interact with society but that is not necessarily true.
Just like people who solo are maladusted and lone wolf mavericks who want everything their own way. Not necessarily true. There is more than one way to enjoy online games and to be social. Grouping is just one way.
I would still debate with a single point that solo enjoyment should be limited to PC games and solo enjoyers if any, Please feel free to play PC games like Crysis, the content is rightly made for you. Mmo world should be only given a passport to groupers and team gamers who would know how to accomodate and play along others. Mmo should be made like 'Hide And Seek', you just cannot solo play it.
Cheers Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Originally posted by Ihmotepp Not true. You mean MOST players don't want to do that. Obviously the OP does, and I do to. I could care less if I'm not maknig progress in an MMORPG because I can't find a group. I don't like playing MMORPGs solo, because it's as boring as watching paint dry. Therefore, if I can't find a group, and that means I can't make just as much progress solo, I"m not missing anything. I don't want to grind on Mobs with stupid A.I. and do stupid Fed X quests solo anyway. If I'm not in a group, there's no reason to play an MMORPG for me. I don't mind playing solo for the first 5-10 levels, just to learn how to play the game. I don't need to be in a group while I'm figuring out how to configure my GUI and stuff like that. But after that, just give me some mobs to wack on while I'm waiting for a group, and that's just fine.
Ihmotepp Is precisely correct.. MMO=Multi Massive Online. Hence, grouping. The "only" reason to play a multi player online game is to play with other live people. That was the reason MMOs were created. If someone wants a solo game, buy one that doesn't reqire a subscription fee.
To me, finding a group of people that I have a like mind with is part of the fun of the game all in itself. Then again, I also like leveling to be difficult and rewards meaningful. For me, it's about the struggle, the journey. Not the prize.
lol, no it doesn't. It means you have access to a great many people and can interact with them however you want.
So if I logged on to some older mmo and wanted to be entirely a crafter and merchant and sit in a city interacting with people, selling them goods, creating wealth, I wouldn't be playing the mmo correctly because I wasn't grouping?
So once again it comes down to the fact that you guys don't believe in personal freedom and everything has to be dictated to us by a larger group of people who know better.
Ok, clear on that. I presume that's how you live your lives as well. You follow whatever the larger group of people dictate to you even if that's what you don't want. No worries. I'm clear now.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Forced grouping would be (and is) far worse than accomodating solo players. People should group because they want to and it's fun, not because they have to just to play the game.
No, people play MMOs because they want to and it's fun, people should group because it is the very nature of an MMO. If you don't want to group with anyone ever, whats the point in playing an MMO? Go back to playing Xbox if thats what you want.
No thats just YOUR view on it is all.
MMO does not mean forced grouping or anything like that .
Now i prefer grouping to soloing but there is nites i just want to solo and not group and whats wrong with that ?
Forced grouping would be (and is) far worse than accomodating solo players. People should group because they want to and it's fun, not because they have to just to play the game.
No, people play MMOs because they want to and it's fun, people should group because it is the very nature of an MMO. If you don't want to group with anyone ever, whats the point in playing an MMO? Go back to playing Xbox if thats what you want.
No thats just YOUR view on it is all.
MMO does not mean forced grouping or anything like that .
Now i prefer grouping to soloing but there is nites i just want to solo and not group and whats wrong with that ?
amen brother.
a MMO is just a massive online multiplayer game.
If you play a sole character in a online world filled with many other players solo or go grouping up/raiding in those worlds, it doesn't matter: both are MMOs.
It's not a MMO rule that you have to group up all the time. It just means that you are playing with lots of people in the same virtual world. Forced grouping or able to play solo: the owner of the game makes that choice, not the genre.
People who believe that it's a requirement for a MMO to either group up or play shooters or singleplayer games have just been brainwashed by those titles. (those hardcore WOW raid fanbois being a perfect example here ).
It's just a fact that most mmo's implemented grouping/raiding as THE way to get to the end content and so players are believing playing MMOs is all about grouping up with others or either leave the game.
That's just BS.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
You gotta love how some people are not happy unless they are telling other people what to do and how the gaming industry is ruining mmo's. Personally I make the choice what I want to do in a game and I don't need others telling me what they think I need to do. I have quit some games that forced me into grouping all the time.
Yes grouping can be fun if you find quality people to group with but if I want to go off and undertake something on my own then its MY money I am paying to play the game so I enjoy a game that lets me undertake something solo. IF you want to tell me how to play a game then YOU pay my monthly subscription. If you dont like how MMO's are trying to accomidate a wide range of players then stop playing them. Thats your decision not mine.
With the quality of community in some games today I am glad I am not forced into grouping by the game mechanics. I have realy no desire to group with immature teenyboppers who basicly only play the game because they can ruin the game experience of others. If you are into griefing then by all means grief in some fps games out here thats what they are for I play mmo's for the story line and content not for the pleasure in killing other players.
Yes there will be some out there who says who am I to say something like this that I have not made many posts on thes forums and to them I say Who cares how many posts I have made. If making posts on a forum involve flaming others and just being pain rude is a requirement on these forums then that is just stupid. I thing the purpose of forums such as these are to have meaningful conversations with people on the net and not a tool where you can get your perverse enjoyment of degrading others.
I think the OP's frustration stems from the fact that MMOs aren't what he wants them to be. It's not the players that upset him, it's the fact many MMOs themselves let the players play in a manner he feels is inappropriate for an MMO. There's nothing wrong with that opinion.
But....
Saying that anyone who does not want to play in the style that he feels is the 'correct' way to play shouldn't be playing MMOs is wrong. Despite popular opinion, most devs (and investors) are not stupid. They know that often the best way to bring in maximum dollars is to appeal to the widest possible audience. So it is not wrong of them to do so, it maximizes their profits.
Some of like to group, and some like to solo, and some just like to spend much of their time hanging out in cities, chatting, working the auction house, crafting, etc. All of these are valid ways to play an MMO. Let's be clear, there never has been any part of the definition of MMO that means forced grouping. There are lots of ways to play or, or interact with an MMO and other players that have nothing to do with grouping.
What bothers me about some of the opinions though, is that the pro forced grouping crowd strives to remove options from other players. Why? Do you think that by doing so, that those who would rather solo will then group with you? I think this would cause many players to simply find another game, I know I would. But do you really want to group with others who are only there because they feel they have to be and not want to be? How much fun will it really be to team with resentful people?
For myself, I believe that there should be different kinds of MMOs, that cater to different playstyles. I play many hours a week in both single player games and MMOs, and MMOs will always offer a sense of being alive that a single player game never can. Despite that, I'd prefer if an MMO let me see every bit of content, every dungeon, every boss, and have a chance at any and every magic item in the game without once forcing me to group. That's just my style, and it's no better or worse than anyone else's (except for those who live to grief, those people can diaf).
I am not anti-grouping, I'm anti-forcing. I do feel like grouping sometimes and have no desire to see the option to group removed, I just don't want it as the only option.
I think the OP's frustration stems from the fact that MMOs aren't what he wants them to be. It's not the players that upset him, it's the fact many MMOs themselves let the players play in a manner he feels is inappropriate for an MMO. There's nothing wrong with that opinion. But.... Saying that anyone who does not want to play in the style that he feels is the 'correct' way to play shouldn't be playing MMOs is wrong. Despite popular opinion, most devs (and investors) are not stupid. They know that often the best way to bring in maximum dollars is to appeal to the widest possible audience. So it is not wrong of them to do so, it maximizes their profits. Some of like to group, and some like to solo, and some just like to spend much of their time hanging out in cities, chatting, working the auction house, crafting, etc. All of these are valid ways to play an MMO. Let's be clear, there never has been any part of the definition of MMO that means forced grouping. There are lots of ways to play or, or interact with an MMO and other players that have nothing to do with grouping. What bothers me about some of the opinions though, is that the pro forced grouping crowd strives to remove options from other players. Why? Do you think that by doing so, that those who would rather solo will then group with you? I think this would cause many players to simply find another game, I know I would. But do you really want to group with others who are only there because they feel they have to be and not want to be? How much fun will it really be to team with resentful people? For myself, I believe that there should be different kinds of MMOs, that cater to different playstyles. I play many hours a week in both single player games and MMOs, and MMOs will always offer a sense of being alive that a single player game never can. Despite that, I'd prefer if an MMO let me see every bit of content, every dungeon, every boss, and have a chance at any and every magic item in the game without once forcing me to group. That's just my style, and it's no better or worse than anyone else's (except for those who live to grief, those people can diaf). I am not anti-grouping, I'm anti-forcing. I do feel like grouping sometimes and have no desire to see the option to group removed, I just don't want it as the only option.
Comments
I can not agree at all with the OP. In fact the opposite has occured.
Being able to solo im MMOs has been a huge boost to the genre.
I can't understand why anyone would want a game to be all one way or the other. I solo when I want and I group when I want. Why should I have to choose one playstyle over the other? The MMO genre has matured and today, there is no reason to choose. A great MMO will accomodate both playstyles.
IMO - People advocating forced grouping probably lack social skills. They'd rather you group with them because you have to than because you want to. It's sad really.
Well it is nice that you can express your opinin so politely.
You should go debate your loot statement with the pro-solo'ers who believe they deserve raid-quality loot because they pay their money also ... and claim that they, as solo'ers put the same effort into the game.
I am not against soloing.
I am against developing a game specifically to accommodate soloing.
Even then, I should be more clear... I am against setting the difficulty of a game to a solo'er level, thus making it trivial to group.
Perfect example... WAR. You can pull singles all day long out of groups of MOBs. That makes zero sense. It also means you don't have the challenge of breaking a spawn, or single-pulling, which was an art in itself, or using any other tactics. It was designed that way so solo'ers could succeed, and it absolutely took away the need to group for a lot of the game.
Soloing was possible in EQ, and I did so, even with a ranger, quite often. You have to know where to hunt, or play games with the zone-line to stay alive... or fear-kite, but you could do it. It just wasn't fast, it wasn't rewarding lootwise, and it was the ultimate in a tedious grind. But it was good that I could do it for the times I was waiting for a group or waiting on my guild to log in.
I'm all for raid loot being uber even though I never raid and have no desire to do so. However, I don't see anything wrong with some uber solo loot that is challenging to get and can only be done solo.
In the end, devs should be concerned with whether or not their players -- ALL OF THEM -- are having fun. MMOs are not about who's epeener is bigger, so why go there? Virtual worlds are big enough to accomodate casuals, groupers, raiders, and everyone in between.
OK, all I can say is. Why do they call them Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Games if all we do is solo? Might as well make it a PS3 or Xbox360 game that is 1player lol.
As far as raiding...I like how WoW has done raiding...I did not ever raid in wow but not the point. They have dumbed it down quit a bit. what is it 10 man raids? Thats pretty easy to get together I would assume. Not like my days in EQ where it was 40-60-80 man raids. Ya there was alot of us lol, and spend hours upon hours for these raids. Don't get me wrong they were fun...but they were like a second job.
Back to the topic. MMOs Need group outside of Raid Content or Instances. And it doesn't take hours to find a group if you have to group to progress. It only takes hours to find a group if you don't have to group to gain anything.
Kick to the Face.
Where is the word "group" found in Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Games? You can be a part of a virtual world and interact in a number of ways with the community of that world without ever grouping. You can sell stuff and work the economy, you can talk to people without being grouped, you can buff people, you can roleplay, you can craft items to sell to others, you can be helpful to new players, etc, etc, etc. All of these things make you an active member of a virtual world and none of them require grouping.
Please try to understand that MMOs are about WORLDS, not groups. Grouping is an option, but it's far from being the only option.
As to your comment about the amount of time it takes to find a group -- it depends on a lot of things. How specific of a group do you need? I know of content that REQUIRES a specific group make up. That takes time. Many people avoid PUGs. That takes time. Some server populations are low or unbalanced. That takes time. It's not as black and white as you'd have people to believe.
Well said.
I'm all for raid loot being uber even though I never raid and have no desire to do so. However, I don't see anything wrong with some uber solo loot that is challenging to get and can only be done solo.
In the end, devs should be concerned with whether or not their players -- ALL OF THEM -- are having fun. MMOs are not about who's epeener is bigger, so why go there? Virtual worlds are big enough to accomodate casuals, groupers, raiders, and everyone in between.
The problem is you can't design such a game.
If it's fun for solo players, I, as a group players, will find it lacking. If I can solo, then why bother with all the time and effort to group? It's pointless.
I"ve never seen anyone design a game that is good for solo and grouping equally. That's after playing EQ, EQ2, DAoC, CoH, LotRO, Auto Assault, Shadowbane, WAR, RF, and probably one or two I've forgotten.
It has nothing to do with "epeens", but about fun grouping. If you design a game where I find the grouping fun, the solo crowd is going to whine, no doubt about it.
Where is the word "group" found in Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Games? You can be a part of a virtual world and interact in a number of ways with the community of that world without ever grouping. You can sell stuff and work the economy, you can talk to people without being grouped, you can buff people, you can roleplay, you can craft items to sell to others, you can be helpful to new players, etc, etc, etc. All of these things make you an active member of a virtual world and none of them require grouping.
Please try to understand that MMOs are about WORLDS, not groups. Grouping is an option, but it's far from being the only option.
As to your comment about the amount of time it takes to find a group -- it depends on a lot of things. How specific of a group do you need? I know of content that REQUIRES a specific group make up. That takes time. Many people avoid PUGs. That takes time. Some server populations are low or unbalanced. That takes time. It's not as black and white as you'd have people to believe.
I agree. A solo MMORPG is still an MMORPG. Just not something people that enjoy grouping will have fun with.
That is SILLY and i am glad that no developer will listen to this drivel.
Agreed.
Why should you dictate what people should do simply because you like/dislike a certain playstyle?
I like to group and solo. Sometimes I want to go out and adventure on my own, and sometimes I want to group up with a bunch of friends/strangers to accomplish something of greater difficult.y. There is no reason why you can't have the best of both worlds.
It's as if these guys feel that being dictatorial is a good thing.
Remember, the guy who posted the original post is the same guy who posted his 95 theses of contention as to why mmo's aren't for you if you don't meet his criteria... so go do something else. Then he comes here and says that people who solo are all about dictating what they want.
The only one I see dictating any behavior is the OP.
well you know what guys? Soloing is not about to go away. So you can either learn to live with it, gather your friends and play the way you want (which is what you should be doing in the first place) or move on to games that have more forced grouping or just not play anymore.
I'm sorry it's come down to this but you are simply not going to get your way. There are just different types of people out there. I know! crazy huh! And here you thought that everyone was exactly like you!
Hmm, I am not against soloing. But you solo a lot in crafting and delivery quest and may be into selling stuff to a player at a different part of the gaming playfield.
But if there are these solo options then I have seen that the game's playfield becomes infested with bots. Moreover people who are not that social or with linguistic skills say that it is a grind game and just stop playing it.
Going by the different dependent professions of Anarchy Online, I have seen that game has solo content but solo content is not bot infested. So I would like to see games more with the multiplayer part. This in my opinion reduces any chance of boting and also makes the game almost like a place where you log back in and find friends and have a great time.
I remember my days in Anarchy Online playing a Healer or other professions. While I was always asked to play the healer for the team but I was usually able to play my other Professions in as soon as the team gets a new good healer.
Taking the community into consideration, I have found that because Anarchy Online is a game where soloing won’t help, People usually use sweet words and no one dare to be rude or indifferent in the ongoing chat box.
I still am with the idea that if I wanna solo I go for stand alone PC games as they are better solo content compared to any Mmo out. But then again I am addicted to Mmos because I like the fun part of gaming together and playing as a team and trying the hardest levels and thus having the interest to play along. I still think most free to play games I have left besides Anarchy Online first part was because grinding alone with an infinite number of monsters is not the thing I would like to do.
Well kids will definitely like to post there pictures of soloing bosses and stuff but that do not show intelligence but shows one thing that "YOU ARE A KID" and you had never been doing any hard stuff in reality besides this game monster solo killing.
There is a poem for all soloers out there......
YOU SOLO I BOT
YOU PLAY , YOUR BACK I GOT.
Cheers
Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Once An Addict Always An Addict .
That is SILLY and i am glad that no developer will listen to this drivel.
Geez!
And go on making tries on making Mmos throughout their lives .
The problem is Sourajit, that you are just wrong simply by the fact that people do it. It's beyond the pale to think that people who solo "don't know" about solo pc games.
Essentiall what it comes down to is that the reasons that people solo are so beyond you guys you can't understand it. We do it. And it boggles your mind. You can't put two and two together. So make as many declarations as you would like.
We will still do the solo content we want, we will group when we want and you "soloing = the devil", "I can't understand the concept so let's burn it at the stake as a witch" guys will just look on dumbfounded coming up with all sorts of inane ideas as to why people do it.
Let's see, what other inane things can we come up with? How about "People who play online video games can't make real relationships so they have to turn to faceless people who they can only relate to in a game". "People who need to group can't make friends and feel the need for forced interaction".
See? All inane because that's not necessarily true.
HeHe!
Intelligence or thinking beyond will just make me put a bot in the gaming playfield rather than soloing stuff. My other computer can just log in 24 hours in a game and make me game gold. This is what your idea of soloing makes an intelligent mind possible to do in a gaming playfield, on the contrtary i would definitely like a solo boss for each level you get, where bots will not help and if someone bots then the bot is stuck at that level. This eventually will have enough intellingence proving domain for people who wanna go beyond in a gaming world.I have nothing else to tell.
Who says Mmo is about face less people? May be Mmo is only a platform where you meet people and depending on their behaviour remember or forget them. Over this ten years of Mmo gaming i had many friends visiting me and my family and i have also gone to visit them in reality. If you are talking of solo content oriented games, I am sorry to say, i have never made friends there and always been a selfish gamer who could over-write the game through a few bots but then again never found a friend.
I would still go with forced grouping as this in-turn will teach kids to be good and respectful in communication and we have a didactic side of gaming also.
Cheers
Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Once An Addict Always An Addict .
First off after reading this thread and any other that equates to sandbox or group over solo blah blah. People need to learn the difference between "difficult" and "time sink". EQ is not a difficult game, nor is WoW nor is any mmo. EQ is a bigger timesink than WoW. Me pulling at an orc camp in WoW and leveling is not easier than me getting a group and pulling them in EQ. I mean is it really difficult to grind in a group? If you mean waiting for replacements, med time, afk's etc. That is not difficult, that is a timesink.
To the person who said earlier that soloing dumbed down ai was just boring i have a question. Do you seriously believe that EQ ai is more advanced that WoW's ai? seriously?
I prefer both types of playstyle and will personally gravitate away from any game that forces any type of playstyle. Getting rid of many mundane acts that cause downtime has done nothing but help MMO's. Am i the only guy that remembers "pull and go make a samwich" came from EQ? Boring stuff. I also agree that WoW took it too far by allowing epics for an easy scenario grind. I still think loot should go raiders, dungeons grinders, quest grinders-solo. In that order from best to worst. PVP gear should only be useable in flagged encounters, scenarios or arenas (wow).
But i also agree with the poster that said solo or casual friendly play has only helped advance the genre. There are no doubting the jump in overall interest and subs from late 90's to present. More money=more innovation. Even if its slow.
That is SILLY and i am glad that no developer will listen to this drivel.
Geez!
And go on making tries on making Mmos throughout their lives .
The problem is Sourajit, that you are just wrong simply by the fact that people do it. It's beyond the pale to think that people who solo "don't know" about solo pc games.
Essentiall what it comes down to is that the reasons that people solo are so beyond you guys you can't understand it. We do it. And it boggles your mind. You can't put two and two together. So make as many declarations as you would like.
We will still do the solo content we want, we will group when we want and you "soloing = the devil", "I can't understand the concept so let's burn it at the stake as a witch" guys will just look on dumbfounded coming up with all sorts of inane ideas as to why people do it.
Let's see, what other inane things can we come up with? How about "People who play online video games can't make real relationships so they have to turn to faceless people who they can only relate to in a game". "People who need to group can't make friends and feel the need for forced interaction".
See? All inane because that's not necessarily true.
HeHe!
Intelligence or thinking beyond will just make me put a bot in the gaming playfield rather than soloing stuff. My other computer can just log in 24 hours in a game and make me game gold. This is what your idea of soloing makes an intelligent mind possible to do in a gaming playfield, on the contrtary i would definitely like a solo boss for each level you get, where bots will not help and if someone bots then the bot is stuck at that level. This eventually will have enough intellingence proving domain for people who wanna go beyond in a gaming world.I have nothing else to tell.
Who says Mmo is about face less people? May be Mmo is only a platform where you meet people and depending on their behaviour remember or forget them. Over this ten years of Mmo gaming i had many friends visiting me and my family and i have also gone to visit them in reality. If you are talking of solo content oriented games, I am sorry to say, i have never made friends there and always been a selfish gamer who could over-write the game through a few bots but then again never found a friend.
I would still go with forced grouping as this in-turn will teach kids to be good and respectful in communication and we have a didactic side of gaming also.
I don't think you understood my point. I am saying that one could easily say that they are faceless people or that people who play online games are maladjusted or can't interact with society but that is not necessarily true.
Just like people who solo are maladusted and lone wolf mavericks who want everything their own way. Not necessarily true. There is more than one way to enjoy online games and to be social. Grouping is just one way.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I am not sure WoW or EQ has superior AI to each other.... as far as I can tell they were both the same.
when you take the simple example of being able to pull a single MOB out of a group, then i tisn';t so much MOB AI, as just game mechanics... and yes, it is much easier if the game lets you do that. It is also stupid and designed specifically to accommodate solo'ers.
I see less innovation in the last 2 years than the preceeding years.
EQ was HUGELY innovative.
WoW was a very big next step in a lot of ways.
I see nothing new or improved since WoW. (except maybe nicer water effects, whoopee). In fact, I only see regression in the industry.
Grouping is the only way. Group or die!
That would be a fun game.
Ihmotepp Is precisely correct.. MMO=Multi Massive Online. Hence, grouping. The "only" reason to play a multi player online game is to play with other live people. That was the reason MMOs were created. If someone wants a solo game, buy one that doesn't reqire a subscription fee.
To me, finding a group of people that I have a like mind with is part of the fun of the game all in itself. Then again, I also like leveling to be difficult and rewards meaningful. For me, it's about the struggle, the journey. Not the prize.
A tiny mind is a tidy mind...
True there, not much of any scope for botting in those games.
Cheers
Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Once An Addict Always An Addict .
That is SILLY and i am glad that no developer will listen to this drivel.
Geez!
And go on making tries on making Mmos throughout their lives .
The problem is Sourajit, that you are just wrong simply by the fact that people do it. It's beyond the pale to think that people who solo "don't know" about solo pc games.
Essentiall what it comes down to is that the reasons that people solo are so beyond you guys you can't understand it. We do it. And it boggles your mind. You can't put two and two together. So make as many declarations as you would like.
We will still do the solo content we want, we will group when we want and you "soloing = the devil", "I can't understand the concept so let's burn it at the stake as a witch" guys will just look on dumbfounded coming up with all sorts of inane ideas as to why people do it.
Let's see, what other inane things can we come up with? How about "People who play online video games can't make real relationships so they have to turn to faceless people who they can only relate to in a game". "People who need to group can't make friends and feel the need for forced interaction".
See? All inane because that's not necessarily true.
HeHe!
Intelligence or thinking beyond will just make me put a bot in the gaming playfield rather than soloing stuff. My other computer can just log in 24 hours in a game and make me game gold. This is what your idea of soloing makes an intelligent mind possible to do in a gaming playfield, on the contrtary i would definitely like a solo boss for each level you get, where bots will not help and if someone bots then the bot is stuck at that level. This eventually will have enough intellingence proving domain for people who wanna go beyond in a gaming world.I have nothing else to tell.
Who says Mmo is about face less people? May be Mmo is only a platform where you meet people and depending on their behaviour remember or forget them. Over this ten years of Mmo gaming i had many friends visiting me and my family and i have also gone to visit them in reality. If you are talking of solo content oriented games, I am sorry to say, i have never made friends there and always been a selfish gamer who could over-write the game through a few bots but then again never found a friend.
I would still go with forced grouping as this in-turn will teach kids to be good and respectful in communication and we have a didactic side of gaming also.
I don't think you understood my point. I am saying that one could easily say that they are faceless people or that people who play online games are maladjusted or can't interact with society but that is not necessarily true.
Just like people who solo are maladusted and lone wolf mavericks who want everything their own way. Not necessarily true. There is more than one way to enjoy online games and to be social. Grouping is just one way.
I would still debate with a single point that solo enjoyment should be limited to PC games and solo enjoyers if any, Please feel free to play PC games like Crysis, the content is rightly made for you. Mmo world should be only given a passport to groupers and team gamers who would know how to accomodate and play along others. Mmo should be made like 'Hide And Seek', you just cannot solo play it.
Cheers
Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Once An Addict Always An Addict .
Ihmotepp Is precisely correct.. MMO=Multi Massive Online. Hence, grouping. The "only" reason to play a multi player online game is to play with other live people. That was the reason MMOs were created. If someone wants a solo game, buy one that doesn't reqire a subscription fee.
To me, finding a group of people that I have a like mind with is part of the fun of the game all in itself. Then again, I also like leveling to be difficult and rewards meaningful. For me, it's about the struggle, the journey. Not the prize.
lol, no it doesn't. It means you have access to a great many people and can interact with them however you want.
So if I logged on to some older mmo and wanted to be entirely a crafter and merchant and sit in a city interacting with people, selling them goods, creating wealth, I wouldn't be playing the mmo correctly because I wasn't grouping?
So once again it comes down to the fact that you guys don't believe in personal freedom and everything has to be dictated to us by a larger group of people who know better.
Ok, clear on that. I presume that's how you live your lives as well. You follow whatever the larger group of people dictate to you even if that's what you don't want. No worries. I'm clear now.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
No, people play MMOs because they want to and it's fun, people should group because it is the very nature of an MMO. If you don't want to group with anyone ever, whats the point in playing an MMO? Go back to playing Xbox if thats what you want.
No thats just YOUR view on it is all.
MMO does not mean forced grouping or anything like that .
Now i prefer grouping to soloing but there is nites i just want to solo and not group and whats wrong with that ?
No, people play MMOs because they want to and it's fun, people should group because it is the very nature of an MMO. If you don't want to group with anyone ever, whats the point in playing an MMO? Go back to playing Xbox if thats what you want.
No thats just YOUR view on it is all.
MMO does not mean forced grouping or anything like that .
Now i prefer grouping to soloing but there is nites i just want to solo and not group and whats wrong with that ?
amen brother.
a MMO is just a massive online multiplayer game.
If you play a sole character in a online world filled with many other players solo or go grouping up/raiding in those worlds, it doesn't matter: both are MMOs.
It's not a MMO rule that you have to group up all the time. It just means that you are playing with lots of people in the same virtual world. Forced grouping or able to play solo: the owner of the game makes that choice, not the genre.
People who believe that it's a requirement for a MMO to either group up or play shooters or singleplayer games have just been brainwashed by those titles. (those hardcore WOW raid fanbois
being a perfect example here 
).
It's just a fact that most mmo's implemented grouping/raiding as THE way to get to the end content and so players are believing playing MMOs is all about grouping up with others or either leave the game.
That's just BS.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
You gotta love how some people are not happy unless they are telling other people what to do and how the gaming industry is ruining mmo's. Personally I make the choice what I want to do in a game and I don't need others telling me what they think I need to do. I have quit some games that forced me into grouping all the time.
Yes grouping can be fun if you find quality people to group with but if I want to go off and undertake something on my own then its MY money I am paying to play the game so I enjoy a game that lets me undertake something solo. IF you want to tell me how to play a game then YOU pay my monthly subscription. If you dont like how MMO's are trying to accomidate a wide range of players then stop playing them. Thats your decision not mine.
With the quality of community in some games today I am glad I am not forced into grouping by the game mechanics. I have realy no desire to group with immature teenyboppers who basicly only play the game because they can ruin the game experience of others. If you are into griefing then by all means grief in some fps games out here thats what they are for I play mmo's for the story line and content not for the pleasure in killing other players.
Yes there will be some out there who says who am I to say something like this that I have not made many posts on thes forums and to them I say Who cares how many posts I have made. If making posts on a forum involve flaming others and just being pain rude is a requirement on these forums then that is just stupid. I thing the purpose of forums such as these are to have meaningful conversations with people on the net and not a tool where you can get your perverse enjoyment of degrading others.
I think the OP's frustration stems from the fact that MMOs aren't what he wants them to be. It's not the players that upset him, it's the fact many MMOs themselves let the players play in a manner he feels is inappropriate for an MMO. There's nothing wrong with that opinion.
But....
Saying that anyone who does not want to play in the style that he feels is the 'correct' way to play shouldn't be playing MMOs is wrong. Despite popular opinion, most devs (and investors) are not stupid. They know that often the best way to bring in maximum dollars is to appeal to the widest possible audience. So it is not wrong of them to do so, it maximizes their profits.
Some of like to group, and some like to solo, and some just like to spend much of their time hanging out in cities, chatting, working the auction house, crafting, etc. All of these are valid ways to play an MMO. Let's be clear, there never has been any part of the definition of MMO that means forced grouping. There are lots of ways to play or, or interact with an MMO and other players that have nothing to do with grouping.
What bothers me about some of the opinions though, is that the pro forced grouping crowd strives to remove options from other players. Why? Do you think that by doing so, that those who would rather solo will then group with you? I think this would cause many players to simply find another game, I know I would. But do you really want to group with others who are only there because they feel they have to be and not want to be? How much fun will it really be to team with resentful people?
For myself, I believe that there should be different kinds of MMOs, that cater to different playstyles. I play many hours a week in both single player games and MMOs, and MMOs will always offer a sense of being alive that a single player game never can. Despite that, I'd prefer if an MMO let me see every bit of content, every dungeon, every boss, and have a chance at any and every magic item in the game without once forcing me to group. That's just my style, and it's no better or worse than anyone else's (except for those who live to grief, those people can diaf).
I am not anti-grouping, I'm anti-forcing. I do feel like grouping sometimes and have no desire to see the option to group removed, I just don't want it as the only option.
You are so right.