It really is a sad state of affairs when the fanbase has to dig to find information regarding the MLM. Its even more depressing when you look into how MLM's are run, the terminolgy that is used to hype people up and suck them in. The only winners of this scheme will be the owners of mmoguls and no one else. From the bits of reading I have done we can see they have listed 7 games, 6 completely unknowns and 1 known, and this has even been officially dropped in the SGW forums as no contract or agreement exists with them (fair enough mmoguls is only just a shop front). What is scary in my opinion is all these people rushing there 250$ into a itzyourmall mlm and starting there own business, they find 100 people and convice them to be plat partners, thats 25,000$ of revenue they have generated for mmoguls, and they wont get a dime from that. YOUR 250$ is just for a business start up, you will only get money from your mall sales and the monthly fees paid by people you get signed up under you. My fear is that people are under the assumption that all they need to do is sign up and the money will roll in, no it wont, there moto 'PAID TO PLAY' is misleading, you will need to do sales, and find more accounts to sign up (you dont get anything from that) and pay there monthly fee (this is were your % will come from). I really wish I understood more about the law, and how a company can actually advetise and mislead people with false advertising and misleading comments. e.g. quoting the sales of GTA4 and wowing them with the sales numbers, on a game that was for a games console and not a pc. I really hope someone can really dig into this and drag the truth out of this kicking and screaming.
Itsyourmall is a store front, its actually itself been running for years plus so you guys know you don't need to go far to see gary owns itzyourmall as its mentioned on cheyenne mountain under his profile.
Gary Whiting owns ALL of the companies. Gary is selling you SGW (his product) made by CME (his company) by making a contract with itzyourmall (his company). Itzyourmall makes a contract with MMOGULs (his company) so that MMOGULs can use CME's name and the stargate brand to suck saps into a pyramid scheme that has no product right now.
Gary Whiting is merely trying to reduce his liability when (and it will) this all goes to hell and the plug gets pulled on MMOGULS. He'll make off with the swag and there'll be many very angry people, he may even decide to pull the plug on CME as he hopes to make atleast $50 mil from projections I've seen. Why pay off debts to keep an MMORPG running that only sells 200k units?
There's far more money to be made by pulling the plug on everything when the pyramid scheme starts to collapse. That is how Gary Whiting thinks, and that's what Gary Whiting is likley to do. I say to those that show blind faith in CME that it's time to wake up and smell the coffee, he's using the Stargate brand name to take money without delivering a product. He'll probably take pre-orders too and all of those saps that believed in Gary Whiting will be left with less cash.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Your constant claims that Gary Whiting *is* Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment, and that he is the only person who has any sort of control over CME are completely groundless. Just because the Firesky Company page only lists two individuals as being on the Board has very little bearing on who is truly in charge. Being the Director of a Board is just a title, and quite a few other people have a vote as well. For example: Donald Sutherland, co-founder of Cold Stone Creamery, as an investor wouldn't he also be on the Board? And yet, he's not listed.
I'm sure your continuous conspiracy theories will attempt to spin that fact into line with your other theories as well. I've seen mention of a shell game elsewhere on this forum, and I'll give you an analogy of my own: You are trying to build a house of cards on quicksand.
Your constant claims that Gary Whiting *is* Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment, and that he is the only person who has any sort of control over CME are completely groundless. Just because the Firesky Company page only lists two individuals as being on the Board has very little bearing on who is truly in charge. Being the Director of a Board is just a title, and quite a few other people have a vote as well. For example: Donald Sutherland, co-founder of Cold Stone Creamery, as an investor wouldn't he also be on the Board? And yet, he's not listed. I'm sure your continuous conspiracy theories will attempt to spin that fact into line with your other theories as well. I've seen mention of a shell game elsewhere on this forum, and I'll give you an analogy of my own: You are trying to build a house of cards on quicksand.
I'm afraid you're mistaken, we've established the following facts,
1: CME was registered by Gary Whiting in the state of Nevada.
2: Gary Whiting is the person that sells shares to investors to raise capital.
3: There is no evidence Gary Whiting is not still the majority shareholder in his company.
all these facts are established. If you have evidence to prove otherwise I'd be in your debt if you could post it here. Otherwise what you're saying is mere conjecture and should be confined to the rumour room. Why don't you ask on the official forums and see if they answer?
This is no conspiracy theory, it's a fact. Evidence has been posted with links. If you have evidence to the contrary please post it. Would Donald Sutherland be a member of the board? No. Being an investor or shareholder is not a pre-requisite for being a director, neither does it prevent such a position being taken. The board runs the company and the owner may be a member of the board also (and usualy is in private companies). As a private company the owner would be expected to be a board member, and he is. Prove to me otherwise or drop your conspiracy theory that everyone is tell lies to connect a pyramid scammer with CME!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
There's no denying how Gary Whiting is in charge of CME. It's listed in plain text on their website that he's founder and CEO, and one of the only two people on it's board of directors (and also take notice of how both people are connected to ItzYourMall).
That someone would still try and deny his power within the company, in fact that he has total control of the company, is just plain ludicrous. It simply shows yet again how some are sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes tight, and screaming to the world "The only thing that matters is that I get to play the game someday!".
That's what it's come down to now. There's no longer any denying who owns what. The good people have distanced themselves, or are starting to distance themselves, from CME. This is including some of it's employees, and more to come I'm sure.
What's left are the hangers on, for whatever reason. I'm personally becoming more and more convinced that since all is now known, and this is clearly such a despicable situation, that many of the people we keep seeing acting like they're defending SGW, are actually tied up in this mmoguls scheme. That's the only explanation I want to come up with really, since I don't want to believe regular people can be so callous and uncaring as to contribute to the destruction of other people's lives, families, and finances just so they can play a game on the internet.
ok so GW is board of directors and all he did was He arranged for the initial funding to establish the company and to recruit key industry talent to manage the operations of the business. so I would assume he was given board of directors seat as a thank you.
Timothy Jenson — Strategy: president and chief executive officer, Tim Jenson is responsible for the company's overall strategic direction and performance.
Joseph Ybarra — Strategic Operations:providing strategic leadership for the company and representing the company as a “thought leader” at industry events.
Rodney Nakamoto – Product Development: overseeing all of the company’s internal development.
Michael Rafford – Legal: As the head of the company’s legal department, he is responsible for managing its worldwide legal matters
Demetrius Comes - Technology: versees all software engineering and technical operations.
Dan Elggren - Studio Head: company’s studio head for Stargate Worlds.
Shane Hensley - Studio Head: serves as the company’s studio head for Superstition Studios that is in development of an as-yet unannounced project.
So yeh I don't see Gary in the managment which has most of the power.
Sorry, but obviously you posted in haste without thinking. Maybe it would be best if you just do a little learning about what a board of directors is, and how management of any company are controlled by it's board of directors. The hint is in the name. Board of DIRECTORS. i.e. to direct the company.
Am I the only one staring at some of these responses that are desperately trying to find some little crumb of deniability in utter disbelief? This is kind of amazing.
Sorry, but obviously you posted in haste without thinking. Maybe it would be best if you just do a little learning about what a board of directors is, and how management of any company are controlled by it's board of directors. The hint is in the name. Board of DIRECTORS. i.e. to direct the company. Am I the only one staring at some of these responses that are desperately trying to find some little crumb of deniability in utter disbelief? This is kind of amazing.
No Blakey, you're not the only one who looks at some of these responses and is amazed at the desperateness. I've been following Stargate Worlds for quite a long time now and ever since this stuff has started to surface I have been utterly dumbfounded at the attitude of some of these posters.
I've actually come to the same conclusions as you and suspect that some of these people are actually involved in this mmoguls scam and don't want to believe they've been taken for a ride. Honestly MGM needs to pull the plug before this thing damages the Stargate name.
Sorry, but obviously you posted in haste without thinking. Maybe it would be best if you just do a little learning about what a board of directors is, and how management of any company are controlled by it's board of directors. The hint is in the name. Board of DIRECTORS. i.e. to direct the company. Am I the only one staring at some of these responses that are desperately trying to find some little crumb of deniability in utter disbelief? This is kind of amazing.
No Blakey, you're not the only one who looks at some of these responses and is amazed at the desperateness. I've been following Stargate Worlds for quite a long time now and ever since this stuff has started to surface I have been utterly dumbfounded at the attitude of some of these posters.
I've actually come to the same conclusions as you and suspect that some of these people are actually involved in this mmoguls scam and don't want to believe they've been taken for a ride. Honestly MGM needs to pull the plug before this thing damages the Stargate name.
I can guarantee you I want no part of this scam, part of my replies were clearing up miss information on some things. I don't agree with everything blakey says at all but I do agree that mmoguls needs to be shutdown.
Gary whiting has basically screwed over CME, I just hope mmoguls don't get the right to onsell turbine game subscriptions and other developers games through there system like their video presentation says.
You'll find if mmoguls get their hands into other developers games like they claim it will litterally destroy gaming community on a whole. I'll still subscribe to a game in the normal means but if I have to put up with mmoguls spams on top of the normal gold spams I'll pull out of those mmos.
OK I want to know who has taken the real Sancher 36 and what have they done with him? The real Sancher would be in total denial about this and claiming that we're all deluded. The real Sancher would never give a logical response nor accept any of the information given as having a grain of truth unless he could explain it away.
Also I wouldn't worry about the claims concerning turbine, MMOGULs has no product and it will probably go broke before summer. Your best hope is that it MMOGULs goes broke and Whiting uses the cash to pay off debts and get SGW released (I actually think the game looks pretty good). Then maybe Whiting sells his stake in CME to another compant say EA and leaves the whole sordid affair.
I'm hoping everything collapses before then and the work on SGW is bought by another company (not SOE) and a deal is made with MGM to purchase the license if needed. Sort of like what happened when SIGIL went under.
I like the look of SGW and the idea and would enjoy playing, but under the current circumstances it just isn't worth it. It hurts the reputation of the industry and would make investors wary during a time when software is a good investment in times of hardship.
But if Whiting is willing to pull this who knows what could happen to that game if it's released and he's still incharge?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
OK I want to know who has taken the real Sancher 36 and what have they done with him? The real Sancher would be in total denial about this and claiming that we're all deluded. The real Sancher would never give a logical response nor accept any of the information given as having a grain of truth unless he could explain it away. Also I wouldn't worry about the claims concerning turbine, MMOGULs has no product and it will probably go broke before summer. Your best hope is that it MMOGULs goes broke and Whiting uses the cash to pay off debts and get SGW released (I actually think the game looks pretty good). Then maybe Whiting sells his stake in CME to another compant say EA and leaves the whole sordid affair. I'm hoping everything collapses before then and the work on SGW is bought by another company (not SOE) and a deal is made with MGM to purchase the license if needed. Sort of like what happened when SIGIL went under. I like the look of SGW and the idea and would enjoy playing, but under the current circumstances it just isn't worth it. It hurts the reputation of the industry and would make investors wary during a time when software is a good investment in times of hardship. But if Whiting is willing to pull this who knows what could happen to that game if it's released and he's still incharge?
I have not agreed to everything that you guys have been saying and you know that some of the things you guys have claimed to be fact are from little snippets of information that has also been twisted.
As I have also said before mmoguls is being run as a separate business but yes is owned by the same guy that launched CME. I do still want to see the game once launched nomatter if CME survive to launch it or not.
I'm not following in blind faith like you have claimed before
At least one thing we can agree on is we want to see the game released but all the trash on forums will destroy any interest in the game even if it gets taken over by another developer.
I will be launching an anti mmoguls youtube vid over the next few days if your interested. Lets just agree to disagree I guess and leave it as that ??
I don't see a problem with disagreeing, just unless you state "this is my opinion" you must have some facts or links to back it up to prevent it descending into mud slinging.
For instance "in my opinion" Gary Whiting is the owner of CME. I have facts to state he is the founder and at one time did own it, is on the board of directors and sells shares. What I don't know is if he is still the owner (majority share holder) of CME, now to be fair you have to admit it looks like he is but I'd like some evidence to the contrary rather someone stating he isn't. If Gary isn't the owner in your opinion I'd appreciate some links or atleast reasoning as to what brought you to that conclusion. Also if he isn't the owner who is?
I just want to know the facts, as I assume you do. Infantile name calling gets neither of us anywhere. I like to debate and both sides must present their evidence to support their argument for that to happen. One side just refusing to believe the other and presenting nothing to support their argument isn't a debate in my opinion.
Well good luck with the youtube thing and post it here when done, and if you get any information that is new or refutes the claims I've made or information I've presented please post it, I would actually like to be proven incorrect in this case!
EDIT: I believe I've just found some information that removes any doubt in my mind that Gary Whiting is the owner of CME,click.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
As well, in case there was any doubt in people's minds, Gary Whiting does own and control MMOGULS 100%. Click Here Thanks for the link Agricola, as I posted before, for all intents and purposes he owns it. Nothing is being, or has been, twisted around here.
We already know that blakey but the companies may be owned by whiting but they are being run as separate entities. Until you can prove all are running as one I'll stick to what I believe is true from the info I've looked up.
As well, in case there was any doubt in people's minds, Gary Whiting does own and control MMOGULS 100%. Click Here Thanks for the link Agricola, as I posted before, for all intents and purposes he owns it. Nothing is being, or has been, twisted around here.
We already know that blakey but the companies may be owned by whiting but they are being run as separate entities. Until you can prove all are running as one I'll stick to what I believe is true from the info I've looked up.
Anyways lets agree to disagree
So what you're suggesting is that after Gary Whiting has given a speech at an MMOGULs recruitment drive, advising them to create commands ingame to harrass and recruit gamers. He wipes his mind clean then heads over to CME where he directs the company never thinking once about the pyramid scheme he has CME involved in with it's contract with Itzyourmall (his company too)?
If you believe that then someone certainly has had their mind wiped clean, but I doubt it's MR Whiting!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
As well, in case there was any doubt in people's minds, Gary Whiting does own and control MMOGULS 100%. Click Here Thanks for the link Agricola, as I posted before, for all intents and purposes he owns it. Nothing is being, or has been, twisted around here.
We already know that blakey but the companies may be owned by whiting but they are being run as separate entities. Until you can prove all are running as one I'll stick to what I believe is true from the info I've looked up.
Anyways lets agree to disagree
So what you're suggesting is that after Gary Whiting has given a speech at an MMOGULs recruitment drive, advising them to create commands ingame to harrass and recruit gamers. He wipes his mind clean then heads over to CME where he directs the company never thinking once about the pyramid scheme he has CME involved in with it's contract with Itzyourmall (his company too)?
If you believe that then someone certainly has had their mind wiped clean, but I doubt it's MR Whiting!
They can still operate as separate enities , oh and gary whiting does not hold controlling share of CME so I found out tonight from something you linked in one of your replies.
If you have evidence that Gary Whiting doesn't own the controlling share please link it here, I'm waiting with baited breath!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I suggest you scroll down to bottom and click on document number 02604323
you'll see Garrick enterprises is listed as the only company or person with more than 20% stake in company
That's a fair point, but until you can let us know who owns Garrick enterprises llc and state where all the stock in CME lays at the moment neither you nor I can prove either way. However at the moment the circumstatial evidence does point to Gary, though I admit it's circumstantial, why not ask CME at the official site?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I suggest you scroll down to bottom and click on document number 02604323
you'll see Garrick enterprises is listed as the only company or person with more than 20% stake in company
That's a fair point, but until you can let us know who owns Garrick enterprises llc and state where all the stock in CME lays at the moment neither you nor I can prove either way. However at the moment the circumstatial evidence does point to Gary, though I admit it's circumstantial, why not ask CME at the official site?
Well that's Cheyenne Mountain Marketing, and it doesn't prove that Garrick Enterprises is or isn't owned by him, although it looks strange he made the company with them.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Well that's Cheyenne Mountain Marketing, and it doesn't prove that Garrick Enterprises is or isn't owned by him, although it looks strange he made the company with them.
Oh I think we found proof a few guys in chat looking at it all so yes it looks like garrick and gary confirmed
You guys have let your anger cloud your judgement. You are no longer willing to listen to anything but your own paranoia.
Originally posted by BlakeySGV
"What's left are the hangers on, for whatever reason. I'm personally becoming more and more convinced that since all is now known, and this is clearly such a despicable situation, that many of the people we keep seeing acting like they're defending SGW, are actually tied up in this mmoguls scheme. That's the only explanation I want to come up with really, since I don't want to believe regular people can be so callous and uncaring as to contribute to the destruction of other people's lives, families, and finances just so they can play a game on the internet."
Originally posted by BlakeySGV
"That they want it covered up. That, or maybe some are actually members of this "plan" already and are simply trying to protect their interests?"
--- I lost the exact quote for this one so I'll just quote the gist. ---
Originally posted by BlakeySGV
"Moderators urging SGW forum members to flame any threads asking questions about CME and the way in which it conducts it's business "
Have you any idea how paranoid that makes you sound?
Paranoia is an exaggerated distrust of others that is not based on fact.
I believe this is not a case of paranoia! More a case of others in denial?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
This has been a no brainer for a long time now. There hasn't been any question to anyone that is being objective about what's going on with all this. The only reason for having to keep throwing up more and more evidence is because of the constant scrounging for the tiniest crumb on which to base a denial that's been going on with some. It's still going on for crying out loud. There are only two explanations for the ones that are continually posting in denial.
1) They're so blinded by fanboishness that they're willing to be part of something entirely foul just to play a game.
2) They've bought into mmoguls and have a stake in the whole thing.
Like I alluded to, I don't want to believe that intelligent people could get so caught up in following a game that they lose their sense of right and wrong. Some of the people I've seen posting in denial are people I have read a lot from, and I believe to be intelligent people. Thus I lean toward #2.
In a way I have to lean that way, since I don't want to believe that a computer game can cause people to turn their backs on what's decent in the real world.
As for your last "paraphrasing". Nice try at twisting what I said around. I'd go on about it, but I'm confident in any intelligent person's capacity to "see what you did there".
They can still operate as separate enities , oh and gary whiting does not hold controlling share of CME so I found out tonight from something you linked in one of your replies.
Garvick Enterprises is Gary's shell company. He owns it lock stock and barrel. In fact, if you know CME employees ask them where their checks are currently getting paid from (if you answered "Garvick" you win a prize!).
Garvick stands for Gary and Vicki (Vicki is one of gary's wives). It's plain as day.
Comments
Itsyourmall is a store front, its actually itself been running for years plus so you guys know you don't need to go far to see gary owns itzyourmall as its mentioned on cheyenne mountain under his profile.
Gary Whiting owns ALL of the companies. Gary is selling you SGW (his product) made by CME (his company) by making a contract with itzyourmall (his company). Itzyourmall makes a contract with MMOGULs (his company) so that MMOGULs can use CME's name and the stargate brand to suck saps into a pyramid scheme that has no product right now.
Gary Whiting is merely trying to reduce his liability when (and it will) this all goes to hell and the plug gets pulled on MMOGULS. He'll make off with the swag and there'll be many very angry people, he may even decide to pull the plug on CME as he hopes to make atleast $50 mil from projections I've seen. Why pay off debts to keep an MMORPG running that only sells 200k units?
There's far more money to be made by pulling the plug on everything when the pyramid scheme starts to collapse. That is how Gary Whiting thinks, and that's what Gary Whiting is likley to do. I say to those that show blind faith in CME that it's time to wake up and smell the coffee, he's using the Stargate brand name to take money without delivering a product. He'll probably take pre-orders too and all of those saps that believed in Gary Whiting will be left with less cash.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Your constant claims that Gary Whiting *is* Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment, and that he is the only person who has any sort of control over CME are completely groundless. Just because the Firesky Company page only lists two individuals as being on the Board has very little bearing on who is truly in charge. Being the Director of a Board is just a title, and quite a few other people have a vote as well. For example: Donald Sutherland, co-founder of Cold Stone Creamery, as an investor wouldn't he also be on the Board? And yet, he's not listed.
I'm sure your continuous conspiracy theories will attempt to spin that fact into line with your other theories as well. I've seen mention of a shell game elsewhere on this forum, and I'll give you an analogy of my own: You are trying to build a house of cards on quicksand.
I'm afraid you're mistaken, we've established the following facts,
1: CME was registered by Gary Whiting in the state of Nevada.
2: Gary Whiting is the person that sells shares to investors to raise capital.
3: There is no evidence Gary Whiting is not still the majority shareholder in his company.
all these facts are established. If you have evidence to prove otherwise I'd be in your debt if you could post it here. Otherwise what you're saying is mere conjecture and should be confined to the rumour room. Why don't you ask on the official forums and see if they answer?
This is no conspiracy theory, it's a fact. Evidence has been posted with links. If you have evidence to the contrary please post it. Would Donald Sutherland be a member of the board? No. Being an investor or shareholder is not a pre-requisite for being a director, neither does it prevent such a position being taken. The board runs the company and the owner may be a member of the board also (and usualy is in private companies). As a private company the owner would be expected to be a board member, and he is. Prove to me otherwise or drop your conspiracy theory that everyone is tell lies to connect a pyramid scammer with CME!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
There's no denying how Gary Whiting is in charge of CME. It's listed in plain text on their website that he's founder and CEO, and one of the only two people on it's board of directors (and also take notice of how both people are connected to ItzYourMall).
That someone would still try and deny his power within the company, in fact that he has total control of the company, is just plain ludicrous. It simply shows yet again how some are sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes tight, and screaming to the world "The only thing that matters is that I get to play the game someday!".
That's what it's come down to now. There's no longer any denying who owns what. The good people have distanced themselves, or are starting to distance themselves, from CME. This is including some of it's employees, and more to come I'm sure.
What's left are the hangers on, for whatever reason. I'm personally becoming more and more convinced that since all is now known, and this is clearly such a despicable situation, that many of the people we keep seeing acting like they're defending SGW, are actually tied up in this mmoguls scheme. That's the only explanation I want to come up with really, since I don't want to believe regular people can be so callous and uncaring as to contribute to the destruction of other people's lives, families, and finances just so they can play a game on the internet.
ok so GW is board of directors and all he did was He arranged for the initial funding to establish the company and to recruit key industry talent to manage the operations of the business. so I would assume he was given board of directors seat as a thank you.
Also on the CME website he is not in the management section as you can see here www.cheyenneme.com/company/management/ all I see is
Timothy Jenson — Strategy: president and chief executive officer, Tim Jenson is responsible for the company's overall strategic direction and performance.
Joseph Ybarra — Strategic Operations:providing strategic leadership for the company and representing the company as a “thought leader” at industry events.
Rodney Nakamoto – Product Development: overseeing all of the company’s internal development.
Michael Rafford – Legal: As the head of the company’s legal department, he is responsible for managing its worldwide legal matters
Demetrius Comes - Technology: versees all software engineering and technical operations.
Dan Elggren - Studio Head: company’s studio head for Stargate Worlds.
Shane Hensley - Studio Head: serves as the company’s studio head for Superstition Studios that is in development of an as-yet unannounced project.
So yeh I don't see Gary in the managment which has most of the power.
Oh all those names are on the link I provided.
Sorry, but obviously you posted in haste without thinking. Maybe it would be best if you just do a little learning about what a board of directors is, and how management of any company are controlled by it's board of directors. The hint is in the name. Board of DIRECTORS. i.e. to direct the company.
Am I the only one staring at some of these responses that are desperately trying to find some little crumb of deniability in utter disbelief? This is kind of amazing.
No Blakey, you're not the only one who looks at some of these responses and is amazed at the desperateness. I've been following Stargate Worlds for quite a long time now and ever since this stuff has started to surface I have been utterly dumbfounded at the attitude of some of these posters.
I've actually come to the same conclusions as you and suspect that some of these people are actually involved in this mmoguls scam and don't want to believe they've been taken for a ride. Honestly MGM needs to pull the plug before this thing damages the Stargate name.
No Blakey, you're not the only one who looks at some of these responses and is amazed at the desperateness. I've been following Stargate Worlds for quite a long time now and ever since this stuff has started to surface I have been utterly dumbfounded at the attitude of some of these posters.
I've actually come to the same conclusions as you and suspect that some of these people are actually involved in this mmoguls scam and don't want to believe they've been taken for a ride. Honestly MGM needs to pull the plug before this thing damages the Stargate name.
I can guarantee you I want no part of this scam, part of my replies were clearing up miss information on some things. I don't agree with everything blakey says at all but I do agree that mmoguls needs to be shutdown.
Gary whiting has basically screwed over CME, I just hope mmoguls don't get the right to onsell turbine game subscriptions and other developers games through there system like their video presentation says.
You'll find if mmoguls get their hands into other developers games like they claim it will litterally destroy gaming community on a whole. I'll still subscribe to a game in the normal means but if I have to put up with mmoguls spams on top of the normal gold spams I'll pull out of those mmos.
OK I want to know who has taken the real Sancher 36 and what have they done with him? The real Sancher would be in total denial about this and claiming that we're all deluded. The real Sancher would never give a logical response nor accept any of the information given as having a grain of truth unless he could explain it away.
Also I wouldn't worry about the claims concerning turbine, MMOGULs has no product and it will probably go broke before summer. Your best hope is that it MMOGULs goes broke and Whiting uses the cash to pay off debts and get SGW released (I actually think the game looks pretty good). Then maybe Whiting sells his stake in CME to another compant say EA and leaves the whole sordid affair.
I'm hoping everything collapses before then and the work on SGW is bought by another company (not SOE) and a deal is made with MGM to purchase the license if needed. Sort of like what happened when SIGIL went under.
I like the look of SGW and the idea and would enjoy playing, but under the current circumstances it just isn't worth it. It hurts the reputation of the industry and would make investors wary during a time when software is a good investment in times of hardship.
But if Whiting is willing to pull this who knows what could happen to that game if it's released and he's still incharge?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I have not agreed to everything that you guys have been saying and you know that
some of the things you guys have claimed to be fact are from little snippets of information that has also been twisted.
As I have also said before mmoguls is being run as a separate business but yes is owned by the same guy that launched CME. I do still want to see the game once launched nomatter if CME survive to launch it or not.
I'm not following in blind faith like you have claimed before
At least one thing we can agree on is we want to see the game released but all the trash on forums will destroy any interest in the game even if it gets taken over by another developer.
I will be launching an anti mmoguls youtube vid over the next few days if your interested. Lets just agree to disagree I guess and leave it as that ??
I don't see a problem with disagreeing, just unless you state "this is my opinion" you must have some facts or links to back it up to prevent it descending into mud slinging.
For instance "in my opinion" Gary Whiting is the owner of CME. I have facts to state he is the founder and at one time did own it, is on the board of directors and sells shares. What I don't know is if he is still the owner (majority share holder) of CME, now to be fair you have to admit it looks like he is but I'd like some evidence to the contrary rather someone stating he isn't. If Gary isn't the owner in your opinion I'd appreciate some links or atleast reasoning as to what brought you to that conclusion. Also if he isn't the owner who is?
I just want to know the facts, as I assume you do. Infantile name calling gets neither of us anywhere. I like to debate and both sides must present their evidence to support their argument for that to happen. One side just refusing to believe the other and presenting nothing to support their argument isn't a debate in my opinion.
Well good luck with the youtube thing and post it here when done, and if you get any information that is new or refutes the claims I've made or information I've presented please post it, I would actually like to be proven incorrect in this case!
EDIT: I believe I've just found some information that removes any doubt in my mind that Gary Whiting is the owner of CME,click.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
As well, in case there was any doubt in people's minds, Gary Whiting does own and control MMOGULS 100%. Click Here
Thanks for the link Agricola, as I posted before, for all intents and purposes he owns it.
Nothing is being, or has been, twisted around here.
We already know that blakey but the companies may be owned by whiting but they are being run as separate entities. Until you can prove all are running as one I'll stick to what I believe is true from the info I've looked up.
Anyways lets agree to disagree
We already know that blakey but the companies may be owned by whiting but they are being run as separate entities. Until you can prove all are running as one I'll stick to what I believe is true from the info I've looked up.
Anyways lets agree to disagree
So what you're suggesting is that after Gary Whiting has given a speech at an MMOGULs recruitment drive, advising them to create commands ingame to harrass and recruit gamers. He wipes his mind clean then heads over to CME where he directs the company never thinking once about the pyramid scheme he has CME involved in with it's contract with Itzyourmall (his company too)?
If you believe that then someone certainly has had their mind wiped clean, but I doubt it's MR Whiting!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
We already know that blakey but the companies may be owned by whiting but they are being run as separate entities. Until you can prove all are running as one I'll stick to what I believe is true from the info I've looked up.
Anyways lets agree to disagree
So what you're suggesting is that after Gary Whiting has given a speech at an MMOGULs recruitment drive, advising them to create commands ingame to harrass and recruit gamers. He wipes his mind clean then heads over to CME where he directs the company never thinking once about the pyramid scheme he has CME involved in with it's contract with Itzyourmall (his company too)?
If you believe that then someone certainly has had their mind wiped clean, but I doubt it's MR Whiting!
They can still operate as separate enities , oh and gary whiting does not hold controlling share of CME so I found out tonight from something you linked in one of your replies.
If you have evidence that Gary Whiting doesn't own the controlling share please link it here, I'm waiting with baited breath!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
http://starpas.azcc.gov/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=wsbroker1/names-detail.p?name-id=F14051735&type=CORPORATION
you linked that in another post
I suggest you scroll down to bottom and click on document number 02604323
you'll see Garrick enterprises is listed as the only company or person with more than 20% stake in company
http://starpas.azcc.gov/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=wsbroker1/names-detail.p?name-id=F14051735&type=CORPORATION
you linked that in another post
I suggest you scroll down to bottom and click on document number 02604323
you'll see Garrick enterprises is listed as the only company or person with more than 20% stake in company
That's a fair point, but until you can let us know who owns Garrick enterprises llc and state where all the stock in CME lays at the moment neither you nor I can prove either way. However at the moment the circumstatial evidence does point to Gary, though I admit it's circumstantial, why not ask CME at the official site?
BTW click
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
http://starpas.azcc.gov/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=wsbroker1/names-detail.p?name-id=F14051735&type=CORPORATION
you linked that in another post
I suggest you scroll down to bottom and click on document number 02604323
you'll see Garrick enterprises is listed as the only company or person with more than 20% stake in company
That's a fair point, but until you can let us know who owns Garrick enterprises llc and state where all the stock in CME lays at the moment neither you nor I can prove either way. However at the moment the circumstatial evidence does point to Gary, though I admit it's circumstantial, why not ask CME at the official site?
BTW click
Now this will blow out of the water what I said before and your sure to laugh
https://esos.state.nv.us/SOSServices/AnonymousAccess/CorpSearch/CorpDetails.aspx?lx8nvq=yoqCJbjJRcpaUmvkx4KGeQ%253d%253d
Well that's Cheyenne Mountain Marketing, and it doesn't prove that Garrick Enterprises is or isn't owned by him, although it looks strange he made the company with them.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Oh I think we found proof
a few guys in chat looking at it all so yes it looks like garrick and gary confirmed
You guys have let your anger cloud your judgement. You are no longer willing to listen to anything but your own paranoia.
Originally posted by BlakeySGV
"What's left are the hangers on, for whatever reason. I'm personally becoming more and more convinced that since all is now known, and this is clearly such a despicable situation, that many of the people we keep seeing acting like they're defending SGW, are actually tied up in this mmoguls scheme. That's the only explanation I want to come up with really, since I don't want to believe regular people can be so callous and uncaring as to contribute to the destruction of other people's lives, families, and finances just so they can play a game on the internet."
Originally posted by BlakeySGV
"That they want it covered up. That, or maybe some are actually members of this "plan" already and are simply trying to protect their interests?"
--- I lost the exact quote for this one so I'll just quote the gist. ---
Originally posted by BlakeySGV
"Moderators urging SGW forum members to flame any threads asking questions about CME and the way in which it conducts it's business "
Have you any idea how paranoid that makes you sound?
The quoting system on this site is lame.
Definition:
Paranoia is an exaggerated distrust of others that is not based on fact.
I believe this is not a case of paranoia! More a case of others in denial?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Paranoid?
This has been a no brainer for a long time now. There hasn't been any question to anyone that is being objective about what's going on with all this. The only reason for having to keep throwing up more and more evidence is because of the constant scrounging for the tiniest crumb on which to base a denial that's been going on with some. It's still going on for crying out loud. There are only two explanations for the ones that are continually posting in denial.
1) They're so blinded by fanboishness that they're willing to be part of something entirely foul just to play a game.
2) They've bought into mmoguls and have a stake in the whole thing.
Like I alluded to, I don't want to believe that intelligent people could get so caught up in following a game that they lose their sense of right and wrong. Some of the people I've seen posting in denial are people I have read a lot from, and I believe to be intelligent people. Thus I lean toward #2.
In a way I have to lean that way, since I don't want to believe that a computer game can cause people to turn their backs on what's decent in the real world.
As for your last "paraphrasing". Nice try at twisting what I said around. I'd go on about it, but I'm confident in any intelligent person's capacity to "see what you did there".
They can still operate as separate enities , oh and gary whiting does not hold controlling share of CME so I found out tonight from something you linked in one of your replies.
Garvick Enterprises is Gary's shell company. He owns it lock stock and barrel. In fact, if you know CME employees ask them where their checks are currently getting paid from (if you answered "Garvick" you win a prize!).
Garvick stands for Gary and Vicki (Vicki is one of gary's wives). It's plain as day.