Well if there is any, and I do mean any, strategy to the combat in this game none of the videos that have been made of it show it. All they show is a lot of running around randomly swinging your weapon hoping that the guy you are chasing runs out of stamina before he finds a group of friends or gets near enough to a guard tower to use it against you. In the world I come from people don't run away so much when they are fighting, and those that do generally fall when they get an arrow in the back. So Darkfall is not realistic, not fun and in no way strategic. Cling to it like it's something special if you feel you must, but it's going to be dead in 6 months. The only fun part people are going to get out of this game is setting up ambushes where they can kill people who are out on their own. Woooo... Darkfall is a failboat adrift on the fail sea with a thousand failures attempting to steer it away from the failberg that is destined to tear it into a billion tiny little fail pieces that will fail their way to the depth of failure. Fail.
oh my, another silly post by op, about how much wow combat blows and how much darkfall combat owns, wow combat is one of hardest in mmorgps.. im not talking about lvling or just questing.. im talking about high end pvp/pve , so dont bs me.. saying all you do is lock down and hit few keys
go 3v3 5v5 combat.. where you can die in 3s if you move correncly dont use xx spell at same second.. or attacking wrong target... go ahead
this general combat comparison , is getting out of hand.. unless you have proof that you had over 2.2k in arena team ( i wont care about imblance in wow arenas, some stronger some weaker.. strong class with your "lock down , buttom smash, wont beat even weakest class so get real )
i didnt saw anything hard in darkfall , wow horizontal vertical attack.. oh my magic.. which is terrible hard.. point shoot.. archery.. point shoot , just master it in few days.. till you know where to point so it lands there.. = skill yawn.. oh should i do knockback or normal attack.. or horizontal.. hows that compares to skill
every game compares some sort of skill would be easest game or not.. 90% ppl never reach those 10% in any game every game is hard in its way, same way its easy, anyone who been playing games for 10 years. will find everything much easer.. than someone who been playing for a year..
The main difference between WoW and Darkfall (other than true twitch combat) is the fact that you can tell your arrow where to land, or your magic projetictiles where to fly, but that doesnt mean it will hit. Character, not AI. They can dodge these skills and even if you happen to land it also depends on what kinda armor they have and resistances.
I know the armor / resistances are very common among mmo's, but the fact of the matter is Lets see you getinto a 3v3 or 5v5 in darkfall and lets, not see you get a score, but keep your loot. Not to mention in darkfall there is friendly fire, so you try getting in one of those giant globs and you'll see a whole lot of hurtin goin down. Not to mention there is also collision detection, so contradictions are here!
Both of these games require their own amount of skill, WoW you might need to just keep up with someone and know when to use your attacks, but darkfall you use the wrong type of weapon or dont know what your doing andyour basicaly dead. Your friends are there sure, could they heal you? Absolutely, but their healing other skillls are projectile so they need to amke sure to hit you and not the enemy or hte enemy gets healed.
Darkfall is not about being a cookie cutter mmo to finaly get it right, its about breaking the mold and bringing something new to the genre while also catering to the players of old. Darkfall is not a game where you compare scores, but you compare skulls. It is a game that is not about equipment, for that is really easy to find, lose and replace. It is about living in a harsh environment where no one is invisible and you will need to protect yourself and watch your back or you might find yourself getting decapitated.
Well if there is any, and I do mean any, strategy to the combat in this game none of the videos that have been made of it show it. All they show is a lot of running around randomly swinging your weapon hoping that the guy you are chasing runs out of stamina before he finds a group of friends or gets near enough to a guard tower to use it against you. In the world I come from people don't run away so much when they are fighting, and those that do generally fall when they get an arrow in the back. So Darkfall is not realistic, not fun and in no way strategic. Cling to it like it's something special if you feel you must, but it's going to be dead in 6 months. The only fun part people are going to get out of this game is setting up ambushes where they can kill people who are out on their own. Woooo... Darkfall is a failboat adrift on the fail sea with a thousand failures attempting to steer it away from the failberg that is destined to tear it into a billion tiny little fail pieces that will fail their way to the depth of failure. Fail.
Most of the videos shown are done by developers to give it a feel of a great battle. If you watch player videos you'll see alittle more of how active the combat is, and i mean you can easily say "They're just running around randomly swinging" well keep in mind it does not auto attack like WoW, and you need to get keep moving in order to try to dodge attacks.
If you watch the majority of player pvp videos the ones that do run get Arrows, magic and hell even melee waepons to the back (Back yields more damage to attacks). Just because someone runs away doesnt mean they need to run outta stamina, YOU (the player) will just need to be smart enought o use it to your advantage.
If your close enough to someone or think you have a line of fire, of course your going to try to swing, but that doesnt give you the guarantee you will make contact so if you dont like the fact that you might have to swing multiple times, I'll truely say your loss. There has even been Ex-WoW (notice i said ex) fanatics that came into beta whom were EXTREMELY suprised about how fun this combat system was compared to WoW. And yes there is a lack of special attacks through melee and Archery, but there will be additions. But skills are not ment to be the END all Be ALL of combat, they're merely there to dish out a tad bit of extra damage.
I just want a clarification on something. Now, I haven't seen much video content of this game, but is it at all like Elder Scrolls Oblivion? If it is, then thats all that needs to be said about combat. Oblivion has a more simple approach to the combat, whereas I'm thinking in Darkfall the combat is more in depth. I am really looking forward to actually being challenged in an MMO.
The game with basic melee/archery/magic is more involved than 99% of mmos at high level PVP
sure if u stand still and press left click there is only going to be a horizontal/vertical attack...lol
To learn the combat system u have to apply yourself, learn how to do it...of course a youtube video will not show this
I'm not playinIg the beta, but it sounds like DF has an FPS type targeting system. Please tell me it's true. One of the things I've always hated about MMOs -- targeting.
Tab > 1 > 2 > 1 > 5 > mob dead
Oh yeah, that's fun
EDIT: In some games (WAR, for example) your character even turns to face the target without you doing anything. WTF? No no no no no...
The game with basic melee/archery/magic is more involved than 99% of mmos at high level PVP
sure if u stand still and press left click there is only going to be a horizontal/vertical attack...lol
To learn the combat system u have to apply yourself, learn how to do it...of course a youtube video will not show this
I'm not playinIg the beta, but it sounds like DF has an FPS type targeting system. Please tell me it's true. One of the things I've always hated about MMOs -- targeting.
Tab > 1 > 2 > 1 > 5 > mob dead
Oh yeah, that's fun
It's true and honestly the only problem i have with combat is Block/parry sucks ass.
Does not work like in mount and blade for example.
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied." ^MMORPG.com
I just want a clarification on something. Now, I haven't seen much video content of this game, but is it at all like Elder Scrolls Oblivion? If it is, then thats all that needs to be said about combat. Oblivion has a more simple approach to the combat, whereas I'm thinking in Darkfall the combat is more in depth. I am really looking forward to actually being challenged in an MMO.
I've been told its alot like oblivion, havent played it myself but having played MOUNT AND BLADE its actually similar to that. Alittle more optimised in terms of speed and usage but the combat is very similar.
This game willchallenge you. No more icons to show you where your enemy is, if they run away from ytou and get enough distance and find a nice rock/tree/shrubs to hide behind and you cant find themm, their as good as gone (Lots of personal experiences with this, mainly on the sharp end of hte sword lol).
oh my, another silly post by op, about how much wow combat blows and how much darkfall combat owns, wow combat is one of hardest in mmorgps.. im not talking about lvling or just questing.. im talking about high end pvp/pve , so dont bs me.. saying all you do is lock down and hit few keys
go 3v3 5v5 combat.. where you can die in 3s if you move correncly dont use xx spell at same second.. or attacking wrong target... go ahead
this general combat comparison , is getting out of hand.. unless you have proof that you had over 2.2k in arena team ( i wont care about imblance in wow arenas, some stronger some weaker.. strong class with your "lock down , buttom smash, wont beat even weakest class so get real )
i didnt saw anything hard in darkfall , wow horizontal vertical attack.. oh my magic.. which is terrible hard.. point shoot.. archery.. point shoot , just master it in few days.. till you know where to point so it lands there.. = skill yawn.. oh should i do knockback or normal attack.. or horizontal.. hows that compares to skill
every game compares some sort of skill would be easest game or not.. 90% ppl never reach those 10% in any game every game is hard in its way, same way its easy, anyone who been playing games for 10 years. will find everything much easer.. than someone who been playing for a year..
WoW arena combat is less skill and more having the right combination of classes and talents. Any game where no matter how good you are, if you see a certain class it will completely dominate you almost every time, is a failure. Like how (at least it was when I played) mages could completely dominate warriors, paladins, shaman, hunters, well basically everyone but warlocks, but if they see a warlock they just get completely dominated, no matter what they do. Sure, I could occasionally kill a warlock. If I ambushed him and critted him with a fireball, and a fire blast, and a dragons breath, and a blastwave. And he didnt have the talent that made him immune to fire for a few seconds 30% of the time he is hit by it.
I HIGHLY doubt the game has changed much. It is, and always has been, having the right combination of classes, skill is just finding the order to click your buttons. Which you can find the order that is most efficient online.
I wouldnt call any game that didnt require at least several months to master as a "skill" game. Chess would be a game of skill.
May as well face it that MMOs are just not the place to go for "skilled" combat. Nothing in any MMO takes more than a week or two of pactice to get things down to the point where ping and other factors become the usual deciding factors. Biggest skill is and always will be picking your fights to have the best chance of winning.
I think we can all agree the combat in mount and blade looks better. You have to do particular moves to block attacks from a particular direction. Really simply system which works well. My main concern with DF is the running back and forth and the lack of sense of warriors being locked in combat Partly due to the excessive speed and what looks more like "dogfighting" by running past enemies and getting a hit. In MB you could not simply turn around and start running without pretty much dieing or losing lots of health (well on hard anyways). It just doesn't look as cool as MB and every fight seems like it needs "can can" music to it. They really need to do something about the running around. Once your locked into melee then the option is fight. Running is only an option for the beginning or desperate (and unlikely to work) ending. Likewise where the heck are shields and blocking ? Not seen a single arrow in a shield yet. So much for any 300 style tactics eh ?
U can block with ur weapon as well, and many ppl do it reduces dmg by 40% i think.
With a shield its 90 %
Never played MB, but with full loot there is no way runnign away isnt an option, im not loosing my gear to some gank squad unless they can catch me.
-Darkstar
Grab a trial version of mount and blade and you will see why many people think DF combat is simply not as good.
Also I never said running away was not an option. I said running away during a fight and turning your back on an enemy should be almost always lethal. Fight or flee is a decision for the end of a fight or desperate. All I see is is people fighitng, disengaging, fighting disengaging. If covering your back was important this would meana buddy pair system for combat would be great.
Incidently the AI in MB is not too great at helping one another out but in DF with real players this is a missed opportunity that seemsto leads to "bee swarm" fighting.
Yellow and Red statements contradict each other.
Incidently getting hit in the back DOES more damage in DFO, and as u urself can see from the videos most of the running proved fruitless. At least in those videos.
But ppl are new to the game, still experimenting with its mechanics, we have no way of telling how the game will look after players have gotten truly good at it.
-Darkstar
Sigh Darkstar ... come on think about real time fighting logically... and please try MB on HARD !
Anyways the summary :
1. Run before the enemy sees you... if you want more probabilty of surviving this is the best option.. unless you run into someone else whilst fleeing.
2. Run after the enemy sees you but you are at a distance. If your going to run this is the best time to do it. Now you could be baiting them into a new area where the fight is more to your side. Welcome to 90% of Eve engagements.
BUT though it is an "option" in you can do it... it should not be really survivable other than pure luck or opponent mistakes....
Turn your back on an enemy wihlst fighting and 99% of the time you should die or be hit so hard as to not recover. If the combat system was refined this could give the attacker the ability to hamstring you and leave you dieing to finish later. This does not happen right now and you can disengage easily and run and then engage with no penalty. It creates the same lame ass fighting you see in WoW.. whack .. whack.. whack from behind.. he running.. he running.. whack.. whack . wahck. Try this in battlefield or MB and you just get slaughtered. NEVER turn your back to an enemy. For gods sake it common sense !
The only time I would say run is if you could feign some kind of distraction. E.g. Put a spear into a throw position forcing the opponent to raise his shield AND then run in the few seconds it gives you.
Personally I feel for a group "realtime" PVP game the fight some, run some, fight some, run some not be the option, your back should be covered by a buddy and user made formations should be important. That would elevate this game up towards intelligent status. Instead its whack .. whack.. whack .. run a bit.. run more. Its the freaking benny hill show.
And I still have not seen any group PVP with BLOCK.. arrrrgh !
I wouldnt call any game that didnt require at least several months to master as a "skill" game. Chess would be a game of skill. May as well face it that MMOs are just not the place to go for "skilled" combat. Nothing in any MMO takes more than a week or two of pactice to get things down to the point where ping and other factors become the usual deciding factors. Biggest skill is and always will be picking your fights to have the best chance of winning.
Thats probably also true in FPS games like Battlefield 2142. Where if you run into a 6 man enemy squad unexpectedly you are probably going to die. If you can remain hidden, spot them and place there location on the mini map, then there might a chance in hell someone else might help out or if there is so many the commander places down an arty strike.
Picking the most winnable fight is probably key in most PvP games. Unless the death penalty is so low that dieing is of litle consequence.
Originally posted by loxleynew The answer is there isn't any skill involved, or if any maybe 10%. Does it take 10% skill to run up to someone then back off while he swings then charge in and spam button 1? Nope.
If you notice the same 3-4 fanatics post in every thread that posts any kind of critisism with the game. They claim everything is amazing and takes more skill than even a FPS.
Try that tactic against anybody that has a tiny bit of understanding of Darkfall, and you'll be dropped in seconds. Have you played the game? And if you have, have you done more than kill goblins and naked players?
Suckers never see the skill because they're suckers. It was in WoW, it was in EVE, it'll be in DF. Plain and obvious. So just don't give a crap for them...
Comments
Well if there is any, and I do mean any, strategy to the combat in this game none of the videos that have been made of it show it. All they show is a lot of running around randomly swinging your weapon hoping that the guy you are chasing runs out of stamina before he finds a group of friends or gets near enough to a guard tower to use it against you. In the world I come from people don't run away so much when they are fighting, and those that do generally fall when they get an arrow in the back. So Darkfall is not realistic, not fun and in no way strategic. Cling to it like it's something special if you feel you must, but it's going to be dead in 6 months. The only fun part people are going to get out of this game is setting up ambushes where they can kill people who are out on their own. Woooo... Darkfall is a failboat adrift on the fail sea with a thousand failures attempting to steer it away from the failberg that is destined to tear it into a billion tiny little fail pieces that will fail their way to the depth of failure. Fail.
The main difference between WoW and Darkfall (other than true twitch combat) is the fact that you can tell your arrow where to land, or your magic projetictiles where to fly, but that doesnt mean it will hit. Character, not AI. They can dodge these skills and even if you happen to land it also depends on what kinda armor they have and resistances.
I know the armor / resistances are very common among mmo's, but the fact of the matter is Lets see you getinto a 3v3 or 5v5 in darkfall and lets, not see you get a score, but keep your loot. Not to mention in darkfall there is friendly fire, so you try getting in one of those giant globs and you'll see a whole lot of hurtin goin down. Not to mention there is also collision detection, so contradictions are here!
Both of these games require their own amount of skill, WoW you might need to just keep up with someone and know when to use your attacks, but darkfall you use the wrong type of weapon or dont know what your doing andyour basicaly dead. Your friends are there sure, could they heal you? Absolutely, but their healing other skillls are projectile so they need to amke sure to hit you and not the enemy or hte enemy gets healed.
Darkfall is not about being a cookie cutter mmo to finaly get it right, its about breaking the mold and bringing something new to the genre while also catering to the players of old. Darkfall is not a game where you compare scores, but you compare skulls. It is a game that is not about equipment, for that is really easy to find, lose and replace. It is about living in a harsh environment where no one is invisible and you will need to protect yourself and watch your back or you might find yourself getting decapitated.
Most of the videos shown are done by developers to give it a feel of a great battle. If you watch player videos you'll see alittle more of how active the combat is, and i mean you can easily say "They're just running around randomly swinging" well keep in mind it does not auto attack like WoW, and you need to get keep moving in order to try to dodge attacks.
If you watch the majority of player pvp videos the ones that do run get Arrows, magic and hell even melee waepons to the back (Back yields more damage to attacks). Just because someone runs away doesnt mean they need to run outta stamina, YOU (the player) will just need to be smart enought o use it to your advantage.
If your close enough to someone or think you have a line of fire, of course your going to try to swing, but that doesnt give you the guarantee you will make contact so if you dont like the fact that you might have to swing multiple times, I'll truely say your loss. There has even been Ex-WoW (notice i said ex) fanatics that came into beta whom were EXTREMELY suprised about how fun this combat system was compared to WoW. And yes there is a lack of special attacks through melee and Archery, but there will be additions. But skills are not ment to be the END all Be ALL of combat, they're merely there to dish out a tad bit of extra damage.
I just want a clarification on something. Now, I haven't seen much video content of this game, but is it at all like Elder Scrolls Oblivion? If it is, then thats all that needs to be said about combat. Oblivion has a more simple approach to the combat, whereas I'm thinking in Darkfall the combat is more in depth. I am really looking forward to actually being challenged in an MMO.
I'm not playinIg the beta, but it sounds like DF has an FPS type targeting system. Please tell me it's true. One of the things I've always hated about MMOs -- targeting.
Tab > 1 > 2 > 1 > 5 > mob dead
Oh yeah, that's fun
EDIT: In some games (WAR, for example) your character even turns to face the target without you doing anything. WTF? No no no no no...
I'm not playinIg the beta, but it sounds like DF has an FPS type targeting system. Please tell me it's true. One of the things I've always hated about MMOs -- targeting.
Tab > 1 > 2 > 1 > 5 > mob dead
Oh yeah, that's fun
It's true and honestly the only problem i have with combat is Block/parry sucks ass.
Does not work like in mount and blade for example.
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com
I've been told its alot like oblivion, havent played it myself but having played MOUNT AND BLADE its actually similar to that. Alittle more optimised in terms of speed and usage but the combat is very similar.
This game willchallenge you. No more icons to show you where your enemy is, if they run away from ytou and get enough distance and find a nice rock/tree/shrubs to hide behind and you cant find themm, their as good as gone (Lots of personal experiences with this, mainly on the sharp end of hte sword lol).
WoW arena combat is less skill and more having the right combination of classes and talents. Any game where no matter how good you are, if you see a certain class it will completely dominate you almost every time, is a failure. Like how (at least it was when I played) mages could completely dominate warriors, paladins, shaman, hunters, well basically everyone but warlocks, but if they see a warlock they just get completely dominated, no matter what they do. Sure, I could occasionally kill a warlock. If I ambushed him and critted him with a fireball, and a fire blast, and a dragons breath, and a blastwave. And he didnt have the talent that made him immune to fire for a few seconds 30% of the time he is hit by it.
I HIGHLY doubt the game has changed much. It is, and always has been, having the right combination of classes, skill is just finding the order to click your buttons. Which you can find the order that is most efficient online.
I wouldnt call any game that didnt require at least several months to master as a "skill" game. Chess would be a game of skill.
May as well face it that MMOs are just not the place to go for "skilled" combat. Nothing in any MMO takes more than a week or two of pactice to get things down to the point where ping and other factors become the usual deciding factors. Biggest skill is and always will be picking your fights to have the best chance of winning.
U can block with ur weapon as well, and many ppl do it reduces dmg by 40% i think.
With a shield its 90 %
Never played MB, but with full loot there is no way runnign away isnt an option, im not loosing my gear to some gank squad unless they can catch me.
-Darkstar
Grab a trial version of mount and blade and you will see why many people think DF combat is simply not as good.
Also I never said running away was not an option. I said running away during a fight and turning your back on an enemy should be almost always lethal. Fight or flee is a decision for the end of a fight or desperate. All I see is is people fighitng, disengaging, fighting disengaging. If covering your back was important this would meana buddy pair system for combat would be great.
Incidently the AI in MB is not too great at helping one another out but in DF with real players this is a missed opportunity that seemsto leads to "bee swarm" fighting.
Yellow and Red statements contradict each other.
Incidently getting hit in the back DOES more damage in DFO, and as u urself can see from the videos most of the running proved fruitless. At least in those videos.
But ppl are new to the game, still experimenting with its mechanics, we have no way of telling how the game will look after players have gotten truly good at it.
-Darkstar
Sigh Darkstar ... come on think about real time fighting logically... and please try MB on HARD !
Anyways the summary :
1. Run before the enemy sees you... if you want more probabilty of surviving this is the best option.. unless you run into someone else whilst fleeing.
2. Run after the enemy sees you but you are at a distance. If your going to run this is the best time to do it. Now you could be baiting them into a new area where the fight is more to your side. Welcome to 90% of Eve engagements.
BUT though it is an "option" in you can do it... it should not be really survivable other than pure luck or opponent mistakes....
Turn your back on an enemy wihlst fighting and 99% of the time you should die or be hit so hard as to not recover. If the combat system was refined this could give the attacker the ability to hamstring you and leave you dieing to finish later. This does not happen right now and you can disengage easily and run and then engage with no penalty. It creates the same lame ass fighting you see in WoW.. whack .. whack.. whack from behind.. he running.. he running.. whack.. whack . wahck. Try this in battlefield or MB and you just get slaughtered. NEVER turn your back to an enemy. For gods sake it common sense !
The only time I would say run is if you could feign some kind of distraction. E.g. Put a spear into a throw position forcing the opponent to raise his shield AND then run in the few seconds it gives you.
Personally I feel for a group "realtime" PVP game the fight some, run some, fight some, run some not be the option, your back should be covered by a buddy and user made formations should be important. That would elevate this game up towards intelligent status. Instead its whack .. whack.. whack .. run a bit.. run more. Its the freaking benny hill show.
And I still have not seen any group PVP with BLOCK.. arrrrgh !
Thats probably also true in FPS games like Battlefield 2142. Where if you run into a 6 man enemy squad unexpectedly you are probably going to die. If you can remain hidden, spot them and place there location on the mini map, then there might a chance in hell someone else might help out or if there is so many the commander places down an arty strike.
Picking the most winnable fight is probably key in most PvP games. Unless the death penalty is so low that dieing is of litle consequence.
Try that tactic against anybody that has a tiny bit of understanding of Darkfall, and you'll be dropped in seconds. Have you played the game? And if you have, have you done more than kill goblins and naked players?
Suckers never see the skill because they're suckers. It was in WoW, it was in EVE, it'll be in DF. Plain and obvious. So just don't give a crap for them...