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Pre-NGE Skill/Class Sytem
kingfelix
Member UncommonPosts: 214
I'm sure I'm not the only one that felt that before the NGE, SWG had the best skill/class system I've seen in an MMO. It allowed players to create the most interesting and diverse combinations of skills, and when you got bored with one thing you could drop it and try something else, with no need to roll a new toon.
While it still boggles my mind that they decided to do away with this awesome setup, I'm also surprised I haven't seen more attempts to do something similar. If another sci-fi MMO came out with something similar I'm pretty sure I'd play it, providing that the other aspects of the game were good as well.
Anyway, I'm sure I'm not the first person to bring this up, but I'm just lamenting about the game that I still miss to this day. I think the reason I haven't been able to stick with any MMO for very long since then is because there really just isn't anything out there that compares to what SWG was before they ruined it. I know that even then it was far from perfect, but it was a truly unique experience nevertheless.
Comments
Some friends of mine found something similar in Ryzom. I was tempted to try it out, but when I read up on the game it seems to be about magic and plants lol. Maybe that's cool, but it's not my cup of tea.
I've also heard that EVE has some kind of interesting system that appeals to SWG vets. I'd try that one if I could walk around. I like space sims, but enjoy walking around and meeting people "face-to-face" too, at least virtually
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Pre-CU was unique. You could skill yourself within reason. 250 points to do with as you pleased.
You could be a crafter and combatant and be viable. Not any longer.
You could be a BH and be melee or any ranged specialized. Heck...you could even be a jedi/BH. Not any longer.
IMHO the removal of the skill system was the largest coffin nail other than never learning the one thing Blizzard does well and that is polishing what you have.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Yeah, I have played both of those. They are both both are pretty cool, but still don't quite compare to what SWG was for me. In EVE I didn't really care for only getting to play as a ship, and one that you don't even feel like you're directly controlling at that. Ryzom was a lot of fun but I just got kinda bored with it after a while.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
every real mmo in the next few years will use a pre-cu system
I was a Smuggler/Commando and also had some Artisan skills so I could build swoops and stuff. I don't think I've ever had a toon in a game that I've liked as much as that one.
The only thing I really minded about the NGE was the removal of the skill system. I actually kinda liked how they made the combat twitch based. Still, I think that if they had just worked on polishing what they had instead of drastically changing everything the game would have been more successful.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
one can only hope...
Fixed
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
you would think that in a market saturated with WoW clones that someone would break out a different type of skill system that people are now starving for.
If SWG would have just concentraited on fixing bugs/quests instead of wasting money on changing the entire game, they would have had a second coming from the bored WoW crowd.
I really hate to use this example, but look at the NGE of today compared with the NGE of Nov 15 2005. It's a world of differnce (still sucks compared to pre cu though) with minimal subs which means a very limited budget over the past 3+ years. Now imagine what pre cu would look like today with the budget of a couple hundred thousand subs, 5+ years of bug fixes, polish, and added content. It would have matured into an amazing game and instead of being known as the biggest flop in the MMO industry, it could have been known as the biggest comeback in MMO history.
SWG was way ahead of its time with the new skill system they had.
Every mmorpg prior to that was leveled based, apparently they didn't know what they had till it was to late and still did nothing
about it. SWG to me had the best community by far and what I mean by community is - friends, family and acquaintances.
Everyone is that game could easily relate to one another and we understood the Star Wars lore.
Too bad Sony screwed the pooch on that game, it could still be one of the biggest mmo's today if they didn't F--K it up.
Smedley can kiss this
The old character builder is still up at http://swg.allakhazam.com/db/charbuild.html
unfortunatelly the original skill based model proved to be too complex for the "new" devs and so they made it more simple aka NGE 9 iconic classes
Correction, it proved to be too complex for the 'new' players, and thus was bleeding subscribers at an unsustainable rate, and so Devs made it more simple, aka NGE 9 iconic classes - and thus, f'd it up even more.
99% of the old players liked the old system of skills. What they thought was the correct path to correct the continued loss of subs was to make the game easy stupid like WOW. We all know that WOW is a big success because it is built for the average person. SWG was a nitch sandbox, with complex interactions and economy.
Im over at EVE because it has a complex sandbox, thier are risks and rewards. Thats one thing that is missing in SWG with the NGE, no penaltys for anything, it has become a boring rinse and repeate mmo like WOW. Its logg on find your freinds schedule a instance run.
There is always the Emu if you crave it, like I do ... that team has done an unreal job so far.
I couldn't agree with the OP more. The PreNGE skill system seemed to add unlimited interest for me. The class system sucks. Usually only one or two classes will appeal to me, and I will play those for a bit and be done. But with PreNGE SWG I was able to drop skills and mix and match and try new things. And it wasn't always about creating the most combat capable toon. It was about creating a character that sometimes was well rounded and could do a little of this and that. My character seemed more real to me.
Fixed
I hope not!!
Correction, it proved to be too complex for the 'new' players, and thus was bleeding subscribers at an unsustainable rate, and so Devs made it more simple, aka NGE 9 iconic classes - and thus, f'd it up even more.
the devs themselves admited to it.. they couldn't fix stuff and things looked like they didn't know what they were doin'... players never asked for removal of 32+ profs and only wanted bug fixes and more content...
my statement stands.. correction rejected :P
Correction, it proved to be too complex for the 'new' players, and thus was bleeding subscribers at an unsustainable rate, and so Devs made it more simple, aka NGE 9 iconic classes - and thus, f'd it up even more.
the devs themselves admited to it.. they couldn't fix stuff and things looked like they didn't know what they were doin'... players never asked for removal of 32+ profs and only wanted bug fixes and more content...
my statement stands.. correction rejected :P
it wasn't that they couldn't fix stuff...they chose not too. The developers knew their jobs...the problem was they lacked leadership and managerial direction. Before the CU the game had become stable and they were fixing things.
Profession balance was and is a farse. That has been proven even in the NGE. They wanted to grab marketshare from WoW and of course failed since they didn't even do the one thing WoW does well and that is polish.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
/yawn Ill say it because no one will, WOW is the game that everyone can get into because its built for IQ 100. SWG flawed because it was a sandbox with planning and no real end game. That meaning, anyone with buisness skills took advantage of the system to a degree that the newbies could not and would not excell at. Who really could and can compete with the 24/7 player? All the complaints came from boo hoo I dont understand why I have to pay decay, boohoo why do I have to pay docs, and why do I need a dancer? All I want is to pay the monthly expense and get cool rewards without really working for them, SOE please make the game boring and un-complex so I can feel leet!
Well the developers who originally designed SWG slowly left over time and the only ones left were moved onto new projects so SOE brought a new team in. The only problem is the previous dev's didn't create the tools to easily fix problems or add new content in so thats why development always took so long on SWG, it was just a mess of code and after the CU and NGE there were 3 systems in one game and just a mess. Why do you think the Emu is taking so long. SOE had no choice but to do the NGE and CU at the time cause they needed to be able to develop on the game easier but it backfired cause the CU and NGE were shit and rushed.
Also SWG wasn't that popular because SOE pissed everyone off to leaving and there was no content. The game threw you into a world and didn't give you help and like EVE Online when you do that then most people don't like the game. The problem with SWG that EVE doesn't have is it was bleeding players because the current playerbase was fedup with playing a game that was bug ridden with no content. What SWG needed really was a new tutorial that taught players what to do and give them some direction, like the legacy quests.
SWG's declining player base had nothing to do with the profession system but the lack of content and the bugs SOE kept patching in all the time pissing off the player base. SWG didn't get any new players because the tutorial sucked and it just threw you into a game and all people did was go to a mission terminal and grind and get bored. If SOE had put in that new tutorial it has now with the legacy quests in the Pre CU system then more people would have played. If SOE packed JTLS in for free back then it owuld have helped too because when you think Star Wars you think space.
32 classes and 250 skill point is what made pre-NGE swg great, without a doubt. It was also a very rewarding game to play for prolonged periods of time. I remember FINALLY getting to the Rebel themepark, and just having a grand old time running missions for the characters from the movies.
I recently tried the free trial in SWG's current incarnation. In the first 5 MINUTES of playing, I saw Han Solo, C-3P0, R2-D2 and Boba Fett on the starter station (won't even touch Boba and Solo being on the station together). Where is the reward now? Grinding to 90? I don't see it. When you get dumped on Tatooine (you no longer have a choice for you planet of "birth"), you are railroaded RIGHT into the Jabba chain by the Legacy quest.
Do you know how long it took me to even find Jabba's Place? I got eaten be the sarlacc at least once trying to find it. It's all there for the spoon-feeding now. The average age of players now seemed around 15, and none I talked to even knew this game was different at one point.
Not only that, but there are bugs that are still in the game, THAT WERE THERE ON RELEASE DAY. Not only is the game a watered down version of its former self, but the Devs have spent time implementing things like a trading card game, leaving problems that have been "working on being fixed" from what, 8 or 9 years ago now (these problems were in the beta)?
Pathetic and sad were the words that came to mind, after one night. I should also note, that in about 5 hours, I was level 30.
Wheres the challenge, reward or FUN? I just didn't see it.
Not to mention this game is now riddled with AFK botters (who I'm sure don't get the banhammer since they are hurting so badly for subscribers). These lvl 90 botters are camping areas that the legacy quest brings lvl 6 folks to. The state of this game is pathetic and sad.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.