the two im playing now are age of conan and world of warcraft. reason im not playing everquest 2 is because i have played it since it went live till around 2 mouths ago and im just burned out now but if you like aoc you will like everquest 2 i would recomend it to anyone and to them that have never played it you dont know what you have missed.
I was a closed beta tester for AoC and played it from launch up untill 2 months ago. I loved the Hyborian setting, the graphics and the combat system but I left because although the majority of people are happy about the upcomming changes to the game, I am of the complete oposite opinion. AoC was sold to me as a game where player skill was everything, gear did not matter. However, Funcom has caved to the demands of the WoW/EQ crowd who think that all MMO's have to be about grinding gear and raiding - NO THANKS! Any game that places an emphasis on gear over skill is a total no-no for me. What am I playing now? Well EVE for one, but then I have always had my EVE subscription running, even when I was testing and playing AoC. I also recently picked up The Chronicles of Spellborn. So far I am really enjoying TCoS, gear is just cosmetic but can be bolstered to stats of your liking by fitting different sigils, skills can also be boosted by fitting sigils which allows for very good customisation. The combat system is dynamic, different from AoC's but dynamic all the same. Dodging, targeting etc actually work, its not down to dice rolls. The graphics aren't as advanced as AoC's polygon count wise, but the artstyle is fantastic imho and the graphics themeselves are pretty decent. So to sum up, for me there are two better games on the market atm: 1. EVE (which means my opinion doesn't matter anyway ) 2. TCoS Remember these are only my opinions, and in no way am I saying AoC is a crap game. I think its a great game, I just don't like the direction that Funcom is taking it in.
What you are saying here is correct. But that is a problem ALL Level/Class based MMO's have.
They all have the gear / faction grind as endgame. Because it's the only way for these types of MMO's to provide longterm gameplay in form of these timesinks.
I think that's why you now FINALLY see developers waking up and letting go of the level/class based system.
Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Mortal Online and The Secret World.
All these upcoming MMO's go for the more sandboxy approach (altho Fallen Earth goes for a mixed approach of level / skill based).
Sandbox games without levels, without classes doesn't only give ultimate freedom for the player, but also for the developer when it comes to creating content and gameplay.
Cheers
I totally agree with you Guillermo. I prefer sandbox/skillbased systems for my MMO's rather than the class/level-based themepark type. The problem is that apart from EVE, there really isn't anything out there atm that offers this type of gameplay. Sure, there is Saga of Ryzom (which I played for a year under its previous ownership) and Darkfall (which I will never try, too much rampant hacking and exploiting for my liking), but thats about it.
Thankfully, Fallen Earth, Earthrise, Mortal, and The Secret World are all going with the sandbox approach, so at least there will be more choice for us sandbox people.
The class/level-based themepark MMO that I'm currently playing alongside EVE (TCoS) does not have gear/faction grinds as endgame, so it is possible to build a themepark MMO without the usual boring gear treadmill. Wheather or not people will stay subscribed to the game after they have been at max level for a while still remains to be seen though, as the game is still pretty new.
Personally, I'll keep playing as long as I'm having FUN. Something that I think a lot of people have forgotten about in these games. So many people play to earn (lol) better gear and are always chasing the next shiny purple item. Whatever happened to playing a game for fun? It seems the majority of people these days think that if you aren't getting handed some new phat lewt every second day the game is not worth playing.
Case in point - AoC. The game started with a setup that I really liked, player skill meaning more than gear. Unfortunately now Funcom go and do a 180 and change the very premise of the original concept and make it about gear/loot just to satisfy the WoWified (new word) masses. The first warning sign for me was the PvP gear being implemented. What was wrong with PvPing to protect your keep, or to simply have FUN. But no, the gimmie, gimmie crowd wanted their rewards so they got them on a silver platter. The PvP gear doesn't even mean you are a good PvPer in this game, it just means that you farmed your friends at the rez point on White Sands Isle for a week... How lame, such a shame.
but doesnt gear matter in EvE too?
i dont like Funcom to make AoC revolve arround gear only, but as of now gear in AoC is useless and IS breaking the game.
also, not because some guys have found an exploit and are farming PvP xp and gear that we should make gear irrelevant, thats not a solution. a solution is to fix expoits not remove stuff from the game.
No, gear doesn't really matter in EVE. Your Skillpoints and and player skill matter a hell of a lot more than what type of ship you are flying. I'm a small ship specialist, the biggest thing I can fly proficiently is a HAC, I have no interest in Battleships and upwards. I prefer flying in Assualt Frigates and Interceptors than in anything else. I have taken down Battleships in AF's before. Hell, 3 one month old noobs in Rifters can take down a Battleship if they learn how to fly properly.
As for TCoS, it is a class/level themepark, but your gear doesn't mean squat. Sure you can adapt it with different sigils for differents effects, but the base armour/weapons are all the same, its only cosmetic. Two Wrathguards of the same level and skillset and with the same attribute setup will dish out and recieve exactly the same damage if their gear doesn't contain any sigils no matter if one of them is using a small dagger and the other is using a huge two-handed axe. Skills can be boosted with sigils as well as armour and weapons which allows for a huge variation in diffferent characters builds. Not to mention that two players of the same class may choose to learn completely different skills from their skillbooks in the first place.
And yes in your opinion, the gear in AoC is useless and is breaking the game, in my opinion the new, yet to be released gear is what has broke the game for me. Everyone has a different point of view.
And as for the PvP gear, I don't think it should be removed from the game, in my opinion it should never have been put into the game in the first place!
yes gear does really matter in EvE, a tech 2 ship is not a tech1 ship and good ammo makes a diffrence etc... gear is not all that matters in EvE but it does matter. yes you need skills to get good gear, but if gear was useless or didnt matter who would want to train skills?
we can have diffrent opinions on to what extent should gear matter vs skill matter, but in AoC a naked player can duel a full plate armor player with the same lvl without noticing the diffrence, and that is not opinion, that is clear evidence that the armor is useless.
Yes, a tech 2 ship and ammo is better than a tech 1 ship and ammo, but a well flown cruiser can still take out a badly flown HAC purely down to player knowledge and skill. You admit yourself that in EVE gear is not the be-all-end-all of the game, so I don't see where you are going with this.
In WoW on the other hand a max-level player in Blues and Greens has absolutely no bloody chance against a max-level player in raid or arena gear. This is the direction that Funcom is taking AoC - as I said before - NO THANKS. When gear matters more than skill the game becomes nothing but a grind and a timesink to get these phat lewts to be able to compete. But by all means keep chasing that carrot and avoiding that stick
As for armour meaning nothing in AoC, it was supposed to mean nothing, thats how the game was originally planned and marketed. A game where player skill mattered not gear. Shame they cave when the toys get thrown out the pram by WoW kiddies.
MMORPG History: Playing - EVE Online. Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion. Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9). Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
Will some of you naysayers or just others who think there is a better game please PLEASE tell me whats out now thats better than AoC because I would really like to play it. This is not a rant, I would just really like to know. It will also give me some insite as to what your taste is cause I think AoC, while it is not perfect (What is?), is the best out now. If your going to say EvE or LoTRO please don't even bother posting I hate both of those so you will have no cred with me. All others are fair game. I would really like to try ther games you suggest.
I didn't read the whole thread, but I'll give you my input. I think Guild Wars is a much better game. The biggest issue I have with guild wars is that it is incredibly instanced, but since AoC is nearly the same way, they cancel out. Beyond that, Guild Wars is a MUCH better game than AoC, from the skill system, to the PvE content, to the PvP action.
I agree. I beta'd Guild Wars and then left it shortly after it came out. I recently brushed off the cd and tried it again. It is a great game. It is also a play for free game - in that there is no monthly fee. I like the heavy instanced part of it because I get so tired of waiting an hour or more to kill a heavily camped but needed Boss. There is no camping in GW. Note I like Guild Wars NightFall the best.
Will some of you naysayers or just others who think there is a better game please PLEASE tell me whats out now thats better than AoC because I would really like to play it. This is not a rant, I would just really like to know. It will also give me some insite as to what your taste is cause I think AoC, while it is not perfect (What is?), is the best out now. If your going to say EvE or LoTRO please don't even bother posting I hate both of those so you will have no cred with me. All others are fair game. I would really like to try ther games you suggest.
Sorry but you just lost all credibility with me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Probably because like some of us he is fed up with the negative feedback from people who make no logical points.
How the hell do you make a logical point about something that is opinion based?
He sounds more like he wants to troll.
I think he might have meant that he wanted opinions backed by some reasoning instead of just generalized, "negative feedback" as he put it. I guess he doesn't want to hear "this game sux" as an opinion... or at least explain why it sucks (or converesly, why it's good for that matter.)
What's better? Well that is a subjective opinion, based on what individuals like in a game. No one game can have it all. If it accels in one area, it will be deficent in another. It comes down to a matter of taste ultimately.
I'm currently playing AoC having left WAR and City of Heroes/Villians, and even gave Pirates of the Burning Sea a shot. I've played Dark Age of Camelot in the dim past. And I have to say right now, I'm enjoying AoC as much as I've enjoyed any game, mmo or not. But the reason's are entirely because it matches up to my personal tastes. I like the graphics. Because so the the Graphics the game world feels "real". And becuase it feels real, I'm immersed in the story line more. (when I get rid of this damn Scroll...I'm going back to OT and kicking Fabio's ass!) I also get a huge kick out of "exploring" this world. I'm a Robert E. Howard fan...and I feel I've stepped in to his world and stories.
It lacks some things sure...I was expecting more PvP in netural areas on a PvE server kinda like WAR/DaoC. I'm desappointed that my toon at 40 looks like he did at 12, and I'm still wearing some stuff from then! I'm disapointed in the numbers of players there is (or lack there of...nothing like doing a player search, and seeing all 3 players of the right level to to do a group quest...already in your group)
But for me...I'm really liking AoC. But I fully realise that what is impressing me...may not another person. This game doesn't feel like it's for everyone. .....and I have no problem with that....it's right for me at the moment.
What's better? Well that is a subjective opinion, based on what individuals like in a game. No one game can have it all. If it accels in one area, it will be deficent in another. It comes down to a matter of taste ultimately. I'm currently playing AoC having left WAR and City of Heroes/Villians, and even gave Pirates of the Burning Sea a shot. I've played Dark Age of Camelot in the dim past. And I have to say right now, I'm enjoying AoC as much as I've enjoyed any game, mmo or not. But the reason's are entirely because it matches up to my personal tastes. I like the graphics. Because so the the Graphics the game world feels "real". And becuase it feels real, I'm immersed in the story line more. (when I get rid of this damn Scroll...I'm going back to OT and kicking Fabio's ass!) I also get a huge kick out of "exploring" this world. I'm a Robert E. Howard fan...and I feel I've stepped in to his world and stories. It lacks some things sure...I was expecting more PvP in netural areas on a PvE server kinda like WAR/DaoC. I'm desappointed that my toon at 40 looks like he did at 12, and I'm still wearing some stuff from then! I'm disapointed in the numbers of players there is (or lack there of...nothing like doing a player search, and seeing all 3 players of the right level to to do a group quest...already in your group) But for me...I'm really liking AoC. But I fully realise that what is impressing me...may not another person. This game doesn't feel like it's for everyone. .....and I have no problem with that....it's right for me at the moment.
And that's all you can ask - what is right for me at this moment. Any one who trashes a game and says no one will like it is wrong... somebody will, why? Because it is right for them at this moment. Good point.
And that's all you can ask - what is right for me at this moment. Any one who trashes a game and says no one will like it is wrong... somebody will, why? Because it is right for them at this moment. Good point.
I totally agree with that. You can always ask around for information on the game and even opinions to give you an idea but do not let bad comments make stop from trying a game that you feel might be right for you because ultimately, it is your needs at the moment that should make you stick with game or not. Or even try a new one.
"He who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance ; one cannot fly into flying"
I was a closed beta tester for AoC and played it from launch up untill 2 months ago. I loved the Hyborian setting, the graphics and the combat system but I left because although the majority of people are happy about the upcomming changes to the game, I am of the complete oposite opinion. AoC was sold to me as a game where player skill was everything, gear did not matter. However, Funcom has caved to the demands of the WoW/EQ crowd who think that all MMO's have to be about grinding gear and raiding - NO THANKS! Any game that places an emphasis on gear over skill is a total no-no for me. What am I playing now? Well EVE for one, but then I have always had my EVE subscription running, even when I was testing and playing AoC. I also recently picked up The Chronicles of Spellborn. So far I am really enjoying TCoS, gear is just cosmetic but can be bolstered to stats of your liking by fitting different sigils, skills can also be boosted by fitting sigils which allows for very good customisation. The combat system is dynamic, different from AoC's but dynamic all the same. Dodging, targeting etc actually work, its not down to dice rolls. The graphics aren't as advanced as AoC's polygon count wise, but the artstyle is fantastic imho and the graphics themeselves are pretty decent. So to sum up, for me there are two better games on the market atm: 1. EVE (which means my opinion doesn't matter anyway ) 2. TCoS Remember these are only my opinions, and in no way am I saying AoC is a crap game. I think its a great game, I just don't like the direction that Funcom is taking it in.
What you are saying here is correct. But that is a problem ALL Level/Class based MMO's have.
They all have the gear / faction grind as endgame. Because it's the only way for these types of MMO's to provide longterm gameplay in form of these timesinks.
I think that's why you now FINALLY see developers waking up and letting go of the level/class based system.
Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Mortal Online and The Secret World.
All these upcoming MMO's go for the more sandboxy approach (altho Fallen Earth goes for a mixed approach of level / skill based).
Sandbox games without levels, without classes doesn't only give ultimate freedom for the player, but also for the developer when it comes to creating content and gameplay.
Cheers
I totally agree with you Guillermo. I prefer sandbox/skillbased systems for my MMO's rather than the class/level-based themepark type. The problem is that apart from EVE, there really isn't anything out there atm that offers this type of gameplay. Sure, there is Saga of Ryzom (which I played for a year under its previous ownership) and Darkfall (which I will never try, too much rampant hacking and exploiting for my liking), but thats about it.
Thankfully, Fallen Earth, Earthrise, Mortal, and The Secret World are all going with the sandbox approach, so at least there will be more choice for us sandbox people.
The class/level-based themepark MMO that I'm currently playing alongside EVE (TCoS) does not have gear/faction grinds as endgame, so it is possible to build a themepark MMO without the usual boring gear treadmill. Wheather or not people will stay subscribed to the game after they have been at max level for a while still remains to be seen though, as the game is still pretty new.
Personally, I'll keep playing as long as I'm having FUN. Something that I think a lot of people have forgotten about in these games. So many people play to earn (lol) better gear and are always chasing the next shiny purple item. Whatever happened to playing a game for fun? It seems the majority of people these days think that if you aren't getting handed some new phat lewt every second day the game is not worth playing.
Case in point - AoC. The game started with a setup that I really liked, player skill meaning more than gear. Unfortunately now Funcom go and do a 180 and change the very premise of the original concept and make it about gear/loot just to satisfy the WoWified (new word) masses. The first warning sign for me was the PvP gear being implemented. What was wrong with PvPing to protect your keep, or to simply have FUN. But no, the gimmie, gimmie crowd wanted their rewards so they got them on a silver platter. The PvP gear doesn't even mean you are a good PvPer in this game, it just means that you farmed your friends at the rez point on White Sands Isle for a week... How lame, such a shame.
but doesnt gear matter in EvE too?
i dont like Funcom to make AoC revolve arround gear only, but as of now gear in AoC is useless and IS breaking the game.
also, not because some guys have found an exploit and are farming PvP xp and gear that we should make gear irrelevant, thats not a solution. a solution is to fix expoits not remove stuff from the game.
No, gear doesn't really matter in EVE. Your Skillpoints and and player skill matter a hell of a lot more than what type of ship you are flying. I'm a small ship specialist, the biggest thing I can fly proficiently is a HAC, I have no interest in Battleships and upwards. I prefer flying in Assualt Frigates and Interceptors than in anything else. I have taken down Battleships in AF's before. Hell, 3 one month old noobs in Rifters can take down a Battleship if they learn how to fly properly.
As for TCoS, it is a class/level themepark, but your gear doesn't mean squat. Sure you can adapt it with different sigils for differents effects, but the base armour/weapons are all the same, its only cosmetic. Two Wrathguards of the same level and skillset and with the same attribute setup will dish out and recieve exactly the same damage if their gear doesn't contain any sigils no matter if one of them is using a small dagger and the other is using a huge two-handed axe. Skills can be boosted with sigils as well as armour and weapons which allows for a huge variation in diffferent characters builds. Not to mention that two players of the same class may choose to learn completely different skills from their skillbooks in the first place.
And yes in your opinion, the gear in AoC is useless and is breaking the game, in my opinion the new, yet to be released gear is what has broke the game for me. Everyone has a different point of view.
And as for the PvP gear, I don't think it should be removed from the game, in my opinion it should never have been put into the game in the first place!
yes gear does really matter in EvE, a tech 2 ship is not a tech1 ship and good ammo makes a diffrence etc... gear is not all that matters in EvE but it does matter. yes you need skills to get good gear, but if gear was useless or didnt matter who would want to train skills?
we can have diffrent opinions on to what extent should gear matter vs skill matter, but in AoC a naked player can duel a full plate armor player with the same lvl without noticing the diffrence, and that is not opinion, that is clear evidence that the armor is useless.
Yes, a tech 2 ship and ammo is better than a tech 1 ship and ammo, but a well flown cruiser can still take out a badly flown HAC purely down to player knowledge and skill. You admit yourself that in EVE gear is not the be-all-end-all of the game, so I don't see where you are going with this.
In WoW on the other hand a max-level player in Blues and Greens has absolutely no bloody chance against a max-level player in raid or arena gear. This is the direction that Funcom is taking AoC - as I said before - NO THANKS. When gear matters more than skill the game becomes nothing but a grind and a timesink to get these phat lewts to be able to compete. But by all means keep chasing that carrot and avoiding that stick
As for armour meaning nothing in AoC, it was supposed to mean nothing, thats how the game was originally planned and marketed. A game where player skill mattered not gear. Shame they cave when the toys get thrown out the pram by WoW kiddies.
i totally agree with you that gear making more diffrence than skill is not the way to go, but my point was that having gear that doesnt have the slightest weight in a duel is not the way to go neither.
yes they advertised for a skill based game first and they sticked with it for a while till players discovered that it was going too much in one direction, and the example i gave you of the naked guy having no problem dueling a heavy armored guy is clear and enough.
if we project what you are suggesting on EvE, then it would mean that two pilots with the same skill level will have the same chances if one of them is flying a tech2 fitted ship and the other is flying a tech1 fitted ship, which doesnt make any sense.
so it all boils down to what players are asking from Funcom to do: Balance.
nobody likes the WoW aproach, but useless gear destroys the game economy and therfore ruins a big part of an mmo cause items have almost no value, because having them or not having them is the same/doesnt make any diffrence.
i am NOT saying that gear should be MORE important than skills as i LOVE EvE myself, what im asking for is the right balance.
So far I personally like DDO better than AOC. Well I wish DDO captured open world stuff better. But the instances are plentiful and cool and all the "action" stuff that AOC tried to capture is done better in DDO and was done 2 years prior as well.
Climbing ladders, action based combat, etc etc Its just somewhat better in DDO. I can actually dodge attacks with movement in DDO rather than getting hit from a mile away (that happens in DDO but it only when lag is bad). I appreciate the climbing aspects of AOC but DDO does it WAY WAY better. I soloed The Pit the other day and AOC has nothing of the kind compared to The Pit or the Pirate trial in regards to using the 3rd dimension. I mean turning a steam valve and getting hit in the air to navigate like 5 different levels of a room by climbing various pipes and broken ladders and having a special bonus room where you need to cross a 3 jump broken spar span to get to the ladder and then have a red name at the top. AOC just doesn't have that.
DDO also uses its spells better. Spells like Fire Wall and Cloud spells and such fit the action aspects better.
All in all DDO just captures adrenaline better than AOC. Not that it doesn't have problems, it does no question. But a hasted character with max jump skill, max tumble skill, and feather fall on them can do so much more cool stuff in DDO. Jump very high, do back flips over mobs, glide down one ladder and intercept another ladder in mid air. Etc Etc. And for the most part it is no where near as herky jerky as AOC.
Not saying this makes AOC a bad game and AOC has features that DDO does not have, some which are pretty important in an MMO. But I personally think DDO captured an action-oriented MMO better than AoC. Or at least part of DDO did.
I know many of the original AC players didnt like Asherons Call 2 so much, but to me it was the best game ever made, I still miss my elementalist! badly.
Clearsam said " nobody likes the WOW approach" to gear.
I beg to differ, 11M people seem to like it very much.
People who don't play a game currently tend to exaggerate it's features. The difference between the gear that is brand new in Ulduar (brand new raid), and the gear you can get from heroic dungeons is less than 4% difference. Yes, great players who get upgrades will notice that difference, but if you put a scrub in that ulduar gear, they would underperform even in heroics.
The same is true of pvp. A great pvper could start with crap gear and rise quickly in the arena ratings. The difference between the best pvp gear and the starting gear is 5%. The difference in player skill is much larger than that.
" losing because of gear" is the battlecry of bad players.
The thing that WOW does so well, and AOC does so poorly is to have gear advance very slowly, but very consistently. In AOC, you do a raid at 80, and the gear you get doesn't replace an item you got from a lvl 70 solo quest. In WOW, when you do a slightly harder raid, you get slightly better gear.... it's very consistent, very balanced, and very polished.
Comments
everquest 2
world of warcraft
best two mmorpgs out there to me.
the two im playing now are age of conan and world of warcraft. reason im not playing everquest 2 is because i have played it since it went live till around 2 mouths ago and im just burned out now but if you like aoc you will like everquest 2 i would recomend it to anyone and to them that have never played it you dont know what you have missed.
What you are saying here is correct. But that is a problem ALL Level/Class based MMO's have.
They all have the gear / faction grind as endgame. Because it's the only way for these types of MMO's to provide longterm gameplay in form of these timesinks.
I think that's why you now FINALLY see developers waking up and letting go of the level/class based system.
Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Mortal Online and The Secret World.
All these upcoming MMO's go for the more sandboxy approach (altho Fallen Earth goes for a mixed approach of level / skill based).
Sandbox games without levels, without classes doesn't only give ultimate freedom for the player, but also for the developer when it comes to creating content and gameplay.
Cheers
I totally agree with you Guillermo. I prefer sandbox/skillbased systems for my MMO's rather than the class/level-based themepark type. The problem is that apart from EVE, there really isn't anything out there atm that offers this type of gameplay. Sure, there is Saga of Ryzom (which I played for a year under its previous ownership) and Darkfall (which I will never try, too much rampant hacking and exploiting for my liking), but thats about it.
Thankfully, Fallen Earth, Earthrise, Mortal, and The Secret World are all going with the sandbox approach, so at least there will be more choice for us sandbox people.
The class/level-based themepark MMO that I'm currently playing alongside EVE (TCoS) does not have gear/faction grinds as endgame, so it is possible to build a themepark MMO without the usual boring gear treadmill. Wheather or not people will stay subscribed to the game after they have been at max level for a while still remains to be seen though, as the game is still pretty new.
Personally, I'll keep playing as long as I'm having FUN. Something that I think a lot of people have forgotten about in these games. So many people play to earn (lol) better gear and are always chasing the next shiny purple item. Whatever happened to playing a game for fun? It seems the majority of people these days think that if you aren't getting handed some new phat lewt every second day the game is not worth playing.
Case in point - AoC. The game started with a setup that I really liked, player skill meaning more than gear. Unfortunately now Funcom go and do a 180 and change the very premise of the original concept and make it about gear/loot just to satisfy the WoWified (new word) masses. The first warning sign for me was the PvP gear being implemented. What was wrong with PvPing to protect your keep, or to simply have FUN. But no, the gimmie, gimmie crowd wanted their rewards so they got them on a silver platter. The PvP gear doesn't even mean you are a good PvPer in this game, it just means that you farmed your friends at the rez point on White Sands Isle for a week... How lame, such a shame.
but doesnt gear matter in EvE too?
i dont like Funcom to make AoC revolve arround gear only, but as of now gear in AoC is useless and IS breaking the game.
also, not because some guys have found an exploit and are farming PvP xp and gear that we should make gear irrelevant, thats not a solution. a solution is to fix expoits not remove stuff from the game.
No, gear doesn't really matter in EVE. Your Skillpoints and and player skill matter a hell of a lot more than what type of ship you are flying. I'm a small ship specialist, the biggest thing I can fly proficiently is a HAC, I have no interest in Battleships and upwards. I prefer flying in Assualt Frigates and Interceptors than in anything else. I have taken down Battleships in AF's before. Hell, 3 one month old noobs in Rifters can take down a Battleship if they learn how to fly properly.
As for TCoS, it is a class/level themepark, but your gear doesn't mean squat. Sure you can adapt it with different sigils for differents effects, but the base armour/weapons are all the same, its only cosmetic. Two Wrathguards of the same level and skillset and with the same attribute setup will dish out and recieve exactly the same damage if their gear doesn't contain any sigils no matter if one of them is using a small dagger and the other is using a huge two-handed axe. Skills can be boosted with sigils as well as armour and weapons which allows for a huge variation in diffferent characters builds. Not to mention that two players of the same class may choose to learn completely different skills from their skillbooks in the first place.
And yes in your opinion, the gear in AoC is useless and is breaking the game, in my opinion the new, yet to be released gear is what has broke the game for me. Everyone has a different point of view.
And as for the PvP gear, I don't think it should be removed from the game, in my opinion it should never have been put into the game in the first place!
yes gear does really matter in EvE, a tech 2 ship is not a tech1 ship and good ammo makes a diffrence etc... gear is not all that matters in EvE but it does matter. yes you need skills to get good gear, but if gear was useless or didnt matter who would want to train skills?
we can have diffrent opinions on to what extent should gear matter vs skill matter, but in AoC a naked player can duel a full plate armor player with the same lvl without noticing the diffrence, and that is not opinion, that is clear evidence that the armor is useless.
Yes, a tech 2 ship and ammo is better than a tech 1 ship and ammo, but a well flown cruiser can still take out a badly flown HAC purely down to player knowledge and skill. You admit yourself that in EVE gear is not the be-all-end-all of the game, so I don't see where you are going with this.
In WoW on the other hand a max-level player in Blues and Greens has absolutely no bloody chance against a max-level player in raid or arena gear. This is the direction that Funcom is taking AoC - as I said before - NO THANKS. When gear matters more than skill the game becomes nothing but a grind and a timesink to get these phat lewts to be able to compete. But by all means keep chasing that carrot and avoiding that stick
As for armour meaning nothing in AoC, it was supposed to mean nothing, thats how the game was originally planned and marketed. A game where player skill mattered not gear. Shame they cave when the toys get thrown out the pram by WoW kiddies.
MMORPG History:
Playing - EVE Online.
Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion.
Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9).
Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
I didn't read the whole thread, but I'll give you my input. I think Guild Wars is a much better game. The biggest issue I have with guild wars is that it is incredibly instanced, but since AoC is nearly the same way, they cancel out. Beyond that, Guild Wars is a MUCH better game than AoC, from the skill system, to the PvE content, to the PvP action.
I agree. I beta'd Guild Wars and then left it shortly after it came out. I recently brushed off the cd and tried it again. It is a great game. It is also a play for free game - in that there is no monthly fee. I like the heavy instanced part of it because I get so tired of waiting an hour or more to kill a heavily camped but needed Boss. There is no camping in GW. Note I like Guild Wars NightFall the best.
Sorry but you just lost all credibility with me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
How the hell do you make a logical point about something that is opinion based?
He sounds more like he wants to troll.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
How the hell do you make a logical point about something that is opinion based?
He sounds more like he wants to troll.
I think he might have meant that he wanted opinions backed by some reasoning instead of just generalized, "negative feedback" as he put it. I guess he doesn't want to hear "this game sux" as an opinion... or at least explain why it sucks (or converesly, why it's good for that matter.)
What's better? Well that is a subjective opinion, based on what individuals like in a game. No one game can have it all. If it accels in one area, it will be deficent in another. It comes down to a matter of taste ultimately.
I'm currently playing AoC having left WAR and City of Heroes/Villians, and even gave Pirates of the Burning Sea a shot. I've played Dark Age of Camelot in the dim past. And I have to say right now, I'm enjoying AoC as much as I've enjoyed any game, mmo or not. But the reason's are entirely because it matches up to my personal tastes. I like the graphics. Because so the the Graphics the game world feels "real". And becuase it feels real, I'm immersed in the story line more. (when I get rid of this damn Scroll...I'm going back to OT and kicking Fabio's ass!) I also get a huge kick out of "exploring" this world. I'm a Robert E. Howard fan...and I feel I've stepped in to his world and stories.
It lacks some things sure...I was expecting more PvP in netural areas on a PvE server kinda like WAR/DaoC. I'm desappointed that my toon at 40 looks like he did at 12, and I'm still wearing some stuff from then! I'm disapointed in the numbers of players there is (or lack there of...nothing like doing a player search, and seeing all 3 players of the right level to to do a group quest...already in your group)
But for me...I'm really liking AoC. But I fully realise that what is impressing me...may not another person. This game doesn't feel like it's for everyone. .....and I have no problem with that....it's right for me at the moment.
And that's all you can ask - what is right for me at this moment. Any one who trashes a game and says no one will like it is wrong... somebody will, why? Because it is right for them at this moment. Good point.
I totally agree with that. You can always ask around for information on the game and even opinions to give you an idea but do not let bad comments make stop from trying a game that you feel might be right for you because ultimately, it is your needs at the moment that should make you stick with game or not. Or even try a new one.
"He who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance ; one cannot fly into flying"
What you are saying here is correct. But that is a problem ALL Level/Class based MMO's have.
They all have the gear / faction grind as endgame. Because it's the only way for these types of MMO's to provide longterm gameplay in form of these timesinks.
I think that's why you now FINALLY see developers waking up and letting go of the level/class based system.
Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Mortal Online and The Secret World.
All these upcoming MMO's go for the more sandboxy approach (altho Fallen Earth goes for a mixed approach of level / skill based).
Sandbox games without levels, without classes doesn't only give ultimate freedom for the player, but also for the developer when it comes to creating content and gameplay.
Cheers
I totally agree with you Guillermo. I prefer sandbox/skillbased systems for my MMO's rather than the class/level-based themepark type. The problem is that apart from EVE, there really isn't anything out there atm that offers this type of gameplay. Sure, there is Saga of Ryzom (which I played for a year under its previous ownership) and Darkfall (which I will never try, too much rampant hacking and exploiting for my liking), but thats about it.
Thankfully, Fallen Earth, Earthrise, Mortal, and The Secret World are all going with the sandbox approach, so at least there will be more choice for us sandbox people.
The class/level-based themepark MMO that I'm currently playing alongside EVE (TCoS) does not have gear/faction grinds as endgame, so it is possible to build a themepark MMO without the usual boring gear treadmill. Wheather or not people will stay subscribed to the game after they have been at max level for a while still remains to be seen though, as the game is still pretty new.
Personally, I'll keep playing as long as I'm having FUN. Something that I think a lot of people have forgotten about in these games. So many people play to earn (lol) better gear and are always chasing the next shiny purple item. Whatever happened to playing a game for fun? It seems the majority of people these days think that if you aren't getting handed some new phat lewt every second day the game is not worth playing.
Case in point - AoC. The game started with a setup that I really liked, player skill meaning more than gear. Unfortunately now Funcom go and do a 180 and change the very premise of the original concept and make it about gear/loot just to satisfy the WoWified (new word) masses. The first warning sign for me was the PvP gear being implemented. What was wrong with PvPing to protect your keep, or to simply have FUN. But no, the gimmie, gimmie crowd wanted their rewards so they got them on a silver platter. The PvP gear doesn't even mean you are a good PvPer in this game, it just means that you farmed your friends at the rez point on White Sands Isle for a week... How lame, such a shame.
but doesnt gear matter in EvE too?
i dont like Funcom to make AoC revolve arround gear only, but as of now gear in AoC is useless and IS breaking the game.
also, not because some guys have found an exploit and are farming PvP xp and gear that we should make gear irrelevant, thats not a solution. a solution is to fix expoits not remove stuff from the game.
No, gear doesn't really matter in EVE. Your Skillpoints and and player skill matter a hell of a lot more than what type of ship you are flying. I'm a small ship specialist, the biggest thing I can fly proficiently is a HAC, I have no interest in Battleships and upwards. I prefer flying in Assualt Frigates and Interceptors than in anything else. I have taken down Battleships in AF's before. Hell, 3 one month old noobs in Rifters can take down a Battleship if they learn how to fly properly.
As for TCoS, it is a class/level themepark, but your gear doesn't mean squat. Sure you can adapt it with different sigils for differents effects, but the base armour/weapons are all the same, its only cosmetic. Two Wrathguards of the same level and skillset and with the same attribute setup will dish out and recieve exactly the same damage if their gear doesn't contain any sigils no matter if one of them is using a small dagger and the other is using a huge two-handed axe. Skills can be boosted with sigils as well as armour and weapons which allows for a huge variation in diffferent characters builds. Not to mention that two players of the same class may choose to learn completely different skills from their skillbooks in the first place.
And yes in your opinion, the gear in AoC is useless and is breaking the game, in my opinion the new, yet to be released gear is what has broke the game for me. Everyone has a different point of view.
And as for the PvP gear, I don't think it should be removed from the game, in my opinion it should never have been put into the game in the first place!
yes gear does really matter in EvE, a tech 2 ship is not a tech1 ship and good ammo makes a diffrence etc... gear is not all that matters in EvE but it does matter. yes you need skills to get good gear, but if gear was useless or didnt matter who would want to train skills?
we can have diffrent opinions on to what extent should gear matter vs skill matter, but in AoC a naked player can duel a full plate armor player with the same lvl without noticing the diffrence, and that is not opinion, that is clear evidence that the armor is useless.
Yes, a tech 2 ship and ammo is better than a tech 1 ship and ammo, but a well flown cruiser can still take out a badly flown HAC purely down to player knowledge and skill. You admit yourself that in EVE gear is not the be-all-end-all of the game, so I don't see where you are going with this.
In WoW on the other hand a max-level player in Blues and Greens has absolutely no bloody chance against a max-level player in raid or arena gear. This is the direction that Funcom is taking AoC - as I said before - NO THANKS. When gear matters more than skill the game becomes nothing but a grind and a timesink to get these phat lewts to be able to compete. But by all means keep chasing that carrot and avoiding that stick
As for armour meaning nothing in AoC, it was supposed to mean nothing, thats how the game was originally planned and marketed. A game where player skill mattered not gear. Shame they cave when the toys get thrown out the pram by WoW kiddies.
i totally agree with you that gear making more diffrence than skill is not the way to go, but my point was that having gear that doesnt have the slightest weight in a duel is not the way to go neither.
yes they advertised for a skill based game first and they sticked with it for a while till players discovered that it was going too much in one direction, and the example i gave you of the naked guy having no problem dueling a heavy armored guy is clear and enough.
if we project what you are suggesting on EvE, then it would mean that two pilots with the same skill level will have the same chances if one of them is flying a tech2 fitted ship and the other is flying a tech1 fitted ship, which doesnt make any sense.
so it all boils down to what players are asking from Funcom to do: Balance.
nobody likes the WoW aproach, but useless gear destroys the game economy and therfore ruins a big part of an mmo cause items have almost no value, because having them or not having them is the same/doesnt make any diffrence.
i am NOT saying that gear should be MORE important than skills as i LOVE EvE myself, what im asking for is the right balance.
So far I personally like DDO better than AOC. Well I wish DDO captured open world stuff better. But the instances are plentiful and cool and all the "action" stuff that AOC tried to capture is done better in DDO and was done 2 years prior as well.
Climbing ladders, action based combat, etc etc Its just somewhat better in DDO. I can actually dodge attacks with movement in DDO rather than getting hit from a mile away (that happens in DDO but it only when lag is bad). I appreciate the climbing aspects of AOC but DDO does it WAY WAY better. I soloed The Pit the other day and AOC has nothing of the kind compared to The Pit or the Pirate trial in regards to using the 3rd dimension. I mean turning a steam valve and getting hit in the air to navigate like 5 different levels of a room by climbing various pipes and broken ladders and having a special bonus room where you need to cross a 3 jump broken spar span to get to the ladder and then have a red name at the top. AOC just doesn't have that.
DDO also uses its spells better. Spells like Fire Wall and Cloud spells and such fit the action aspects better.
All in all DDO just captures adrenaline better than AOC. Not that it doesn't have problems, it does no question. But a hasted character with max jump skill, max tumble skill, and feather fall on them can do so much more cool stuff in DDO. Jump very high, do back flips over mobs, glide down one ladder and intercept another ladder in mid air. Etc Etc. And for the most part it is no where near as herky jerky as AOC.
Not saying this makes AOC a bad game and AOC has features that DDO does not have, some which are pretty important in an MMO. But I personally think DDO captured an action-oriented MMO better than AoC. Or at least part of DDO did.
Asheron's Call.
Kain_Dale
I know many of the original AC players didnt like Asherons Call 2 so much, but to me it was the best game ever made, I still miss my elementalist! badly.
Clearsam said " nobody likes the WOW approach" to gear.
I beg to differ, 11M people seem to like it very much.
People who don't play a game currently tend to exaggerate it's features. The difference between the gear that is brand new in Ulduar (brand new raid), and the gear you can get from heroic dungeons is less than 4% difference. Yes, great players who get upgrades will notice that difference, but if you put a scrub in that ulduar gear, they would underperform even in heroics.
The same is true of pvp. A great pvper could start with crap gear and rise quickly in the arena ratings. The difference between the best pvp gear and the starting gear is 5%. The difference in player skill is much larger than that.
" losing because of gear" is the battlecry of bad players.
The thing that WOW does so well, and AOC does so poorly is to have gear advance very slowly, but very consistently. In AOC, you do a raid at 80, and the gear you get doesn't replace an item you got from a lvl 70 solo quest. In WOW, when you do a slightly harder raid, you get slightly better gear.... it's very consistent, very balanced, and very polished.
Aion: Tower of Eternity is better than Age of Conan.