I can't beleive that they left out AC2 from that list! David Bowman killed that game in an incredibly short time...
Dude, take another look at teh article, it specifically addresseswhy AC 2 wasn't there.
Guys, David Bowman was the "mastermind" behind Horizons before they sold it (after Dave Allen ran away from the project)....he never touched AC2 or was an employee of Turbine to my knowledge.
AC2 was a Turbine product.
What about Mourning...wasn't live for a week or two???? Oh, Oh what about Irith Online??? Wasn't that live for a few weeks? I had the displeasure of beta testing that one for a few hours...(mainly because it didn't work at all)
Originally posted by Spiider EVE - now there is a true gem when it comes to gameplay depth. Becouse of that it has a steep learning curve and simply rejects casual players who are not ready to invest hours a day to achieve immersion into this player controled universe. EVE economy is studied in some business schools, and EVE politics is discussed and mentioned in mainstream media even. EVE wars last for years, which is something you can not really say for any game on the market. And all that despite CCP being a rookie, green and mostly clueless company when it comes to handling customers. If CCP managed WOW it woud have died 2 months before launch. The key was letting players create their own world. And it is only about one thing if you want your game to achieve etenral life - Anarchy. And I'm not talking here abour burning cars and listening to Sex Pistols, I'm talking about the ability to step into a new universe an determine your own destiny with as few limitations as possible. Something bigger then just a sandbox, since even there you are limited by the amount of sand and the sandbox walls. If you can attract people to your universe (sci-fi or fantasy, it is not important) and give them full freedom, wrapped in a stable and logical environment, you have a game that will survive years to come.
I think the "anarchy" you mention can be boiled down further to "player-generated endgame".
Game companies can't keep up with the demand for content created by players if those players end up congregated around max level over time. It seems the most cost-effective solution found so far is to go down the path of trying to create chunks of content that can occupy large groups of players for large amounts of player time i.e raiding.
The other option is to make the max-level game revolve around PvP as that is effectively player-generated content and doesn't require constant development (in theory). Potentially the best way of all is a well implemented PvP clanbox because in that kind of game the players themselves can generate infinite content through the rise and fall of player empires.
Not everyone likes PvP though which leaves me wondering: how can a PvE game create a player-generated PvE endgame?
Originally posted by APRAurore Edit - forgot to add: so based off of some of what Stradden said in this article, do people think it's too risky to be innovative in this industry? A lot of people discuss in the game developers' corner and in the pub their dissastisfaction with the current trends in MMOs yet here is a great example of why developers perhaps feel pressured into keeping with the trends...
I'm in no way an expert but...
My guess is the downfall is in the graphics - actually creating the models and the world and all the artwork is a huge endeavour on top of the coding and must cost a heap of money. However I think a lot of the time you wouldn't actually need any of that to get an (almost) fully working game. So my theory is game developers should focus on trying to get a fully working prototype using very basic graphics e.g go into blender or whatever and make a square block, color it brown and call it a bear, make a vertical rectangle, color it blue and call it a human, then, when you've got the game working you make a few slightly better models and beta test it a bit. If the game is good enough there'll be a few people who like it even with terrible graphics (remember Civ1) and if you get that then you'll know there's a market out there that makes it worth spending millions on 3D modellers.
I think both indie developers and large companies could use versions of this method.
I also wonder about Hellgate london. That closed down REALLY quick. God I thought that game was going to be amazing <.<.
But yeah, fury. I really enjoyed the game. I loved the idea behind it, the gameplay, the graphics.
But the insane graphics lag, the server lag itself, the lack of ANYTHING outside of PvP besides training areas were a big blargh. But the idea. Was amazing. The PvP was quite fun. The quick, fast, almost fps like gameplay was amazing. I would still be playing it if it was still up :. Ah well.
Tabula Rasa, Die Rolls for combat? Completely WRONG. Ya couldnt miss in that game. It would be nice if the authors played the games they critisize. AA was a good game but just missing a big feel to it. TR was a great game but too much of the same all the time. TR had the best sound effects and combat effects ever, The shotgun blowback was great. They actually used a winchester lever action for that sound but whatever, it saw fine.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
City of Heroes has come close to solving the problem of how to generate PvE engame with their Mission Architect feature that allows players to generate their own mission arcs. There may be some problems with the implimentaton and I think they really should offer more than just 3 published arcs, with five mission each, per account for members (additional arcs have to be purchases separately) but they are on the right track.
Played: DAoC 6 years, WoW 2 years, Ultima/EQ 1+ years, AoC/Aion/Rift/SWTOR a few months Tried: Warhammer, EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and many, many others... Currently Playing: DAOC
edit: idk what happend when i read it a little bit ago they had APB listed as #1 must changed it or something? thats how i found out APB closed was reading this article lol
edit again: never mind i see he has a second one up now "revisted list"
I doubt APB is closed forever. Some other company will pick it up and run it.
SOE.
SoE is definately a possibility but I was thinking more along the lines of GamersFirst. When 9Dragons shut down GamersFirst bought it and got the servers back up and running a month later. Gamersfirst is really good at taking run down games and turning them around.
Comments
Dude, take another look at teh article, it specifically addresseswhy AC 2 wasn't there.
Guys, David Bowman was the "mastermind" behind Horizons before they sold it (after Dave Allen ran away from the project)....he never touched AC2 or was an employee of Turbine to my knowledge.
AC2 was a Turbine product.
What about Mourning...wasn't live for a week or two???? Oh, Oh what about Irith Online??? Wasn't that live for a few weeks? I had the displeasure of beta testing that one for a few hours...(mainly because it didn't work at all)
I think the "anarchy" you mention can be boiled down further to "player-generated endgame".
Game companies can't keep up with the demand for content created by players if those players end up congregated around max level over time. It seems the most cost-effective solution found so far is to go down the path of trying to create chunks of content that can occupy large groups of players for large amounts of player time i.e raiding.
The other option is to make the max-level game revolve around PvP as that is effectively player-generated content and doesn't require constant development (in theory). Potentially the best way of all is a well implemented PvP clanbox because in that kind of game the players themselves can generate infinite content through the rise and fall of player empires.
Not everyone likes PvP though which leaves me wondering: how can a PvE game create a player-generated PvE endgame?
I'm in no way an expert but...
My guess is the downfall is in the graphics - actually creating the models and the world and all the artwork is a huge endeavour on top of the coding and must cost a heap of money. However I think a lot of the time you wouldn't actually need any of that to get an (almost) fully working game. So my theory is game developers should focus on trying to get a fully working prototype using very basic graphics e.g go into blender or whatever and make a square block, color it brown and call it a bear, make a vertical rectangle, color it blue and call it a human, then, when you've got the game working you make a few slightly better models and beta test it a bit. If the game is good enough there'll be a few people who like it even with terrible graphics (remember Civ1) and if you get that then you'll know there's a market out there that makes it worth spending millions on 3D modellers.
I think both indie developers and large companies could use versions of this method.
I also wonder about Hellgate london. That closed down REALLY quick. God I thought that game was going to be amazing <.<.
But yeah, fury. I really enjoyed the game. I loved the idea behind it, the gameplay, the graphics.
But the insane graphics lag, the server lag itself, the lack of ANYTHING outside of PvP besides training areas were a big blargh. But the idea. Was amazing. The PvP was quite fun. The quick, fast, almost fps like gameplay was amazing. I would still be playing it if it was still up :. Ah well.
Tabula Rasa, Die Rolls for combat? Completely WRONG. Ya couldnt miss in that game. It would be nice if the authors played the games they critisize. AA was a good game but just missing a big feel to it. TR was a great game but too much of the same all the time. TR had the best sound effects and combat effects ever, The shotgun blowback was great. They actually used a winchester lever action for that sound but whatever, it saw fine.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
City of Heroes has come close to solving the problem of how to generate PvE engame with their Mission Architect feature that allows players to generate their own mission arcs. There may be some problems with the implimentaton and I think they really should offer more than just 3 published arcs, with five mission each, per account for members (additional arcs have to be purchases separately) but they are on the right track.
Looks like you need to add APB to this list. LOL
Played: DAoC 6 years, WoW 2 years, Ultima/EQ 1+ years, AoC/Aion/Rift/SWTOR a few months
Tried: Warhammer, EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and many, many others...
Currently Playing: DAOC
umm APB is in first place?
edit: idk what happend when i read it a little bit ago they had APB listed as #1 must changed it or something? thats how i found out APB closed was reading this article lol
edit again: never mind i see he has a second one up now "revisted list"
I doubt APB is closed forever. Some other company will pick it up and run it.
SOE.
SoE is definately a possibility but I was thinking more along the lines of GamersFirst. When 9Dragons shut down GamersFirst bought it and got the servers back up and running a month later. Gamersfirst is really good at taking run down games and turning them around.
It's already been out over 18 months...