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Truly Original Ideas
penandpaper
Member UncommonPosts: 174
I've had a few thoughts lately about truly original ideas within MMO's. Here are a few. Please feel free to trash them because they're not possible (I'm not a programmer) or add to them.
1. Diplomacy - I like the idea that some games have with diplomacy, however, I always feel like it's not complete. So, what about diplomacy run like combat. For example, take AoC's cut scenes when the people talk to you. Have the NPC talk and when he finishes you have some buttons to push. Skills if you will. Maybe joking, listening intently, smiling, angry, intimidate, etc... Based on your reaction they respond. Perhaps, you could put subtle clues as to what to push via voice tone, facial expressions, knowing the NPC's personal history. Things that might influence your skill could be clothing, jewelry, a musical instrument, past interactions with that NPC or his family/friends. I also wonder if the more interaction you have with an NPC the easier that person will be to read.
2. Harvesting - I have never played the Big Game Hunting games, but it seems to me that for people who like twitch games it might be fun to implement in an MMO. Imagine trying to shoot a pheasant with a crossbow or take down a deer with one shot. This way you could actually have the animals in an MMO act like animals - elusive. No more deer running up to you trying to kill you. One shot and if you don't get the kill then you have to track. Skills such as camoflauge, tracking, and archery could come into play. Perhaps, you could implement a pet companion that would help you. Of course, different weapons could be implemented: bows, spears, slingshots, etc...
3. Questing - I like storied quests, and I realize not everyone does. But, it always seems to me that an area that is experiencing a problem should not be focusing on anything else. If there's a little halfling village that some hill giant has enslaved (Who knows, perhaps it's to work in his profitable clothes making business, where he has looms everywhere?) I don't want to have to go find bird eggs for someone in the village and go kill some electric eels in the river. Everything in the town should be based around that hill giant. Then, depending on your success/failure, the town experiences its outcome. So everytime you go back, the town is either saved and you are heralded the hero, the town was damaged but they are free, or the town is even more oppressed as ever and the hill giant killed all the men in town so they hate you. I don't picture it as an instanced, more like you being in town with other players that had the same outcome as you.
4. Games - I'm not sure why this isn't more popular, but getting experience by playing chess, cards, or checkers in a pub should be viable. Your toon sits down and and plays a game. I've watched my wife play online poker and she loves it. It would be nice to be able to do that in game. Some other in-game games I can think of (for a fantasy setting) are: boxing, jousting, archery, axe tossing, javeline throwing, racing, etc... You get the idea. Of course some of these these could be influenced using equipment and a character skill system.
I can't wait to hear what other ideas are out there. 
Comments
The problem is that this new generation of MMO gamers always like to take the path of least resistance and rarely "sight-see" or take part in fluff unless it gained them a different-coloured mount or a trophy. They want something, anything for putting in however many thousands of hours.
People who hark back to "the golden days" of MMO's stay in those very same MMO's, regardless of how inferior to todays standard the graphics, interface or sound is.
I hate to break it to you, but most wished AoC had no cut-scenes at all and that the modern MMOer has little inclination to read anything beyond 20 words. Anything which is "TL;DR" or takes longer than 7 seconds to read, gets ignored or in their eyes wasn't important enough to capture their attention. Even on these forums, they lurk like a raven in a graveyard. As for crafting, again unless it gets them something "uber" or bragging rights they don't care how much effort is involved.
The current generation of MMOers are nothing more than mindless zombies who click on anything shiny, know next to nothing about the lore in a game, will only take part in something to min/max or inflate their ePeen and happily continue to pay their subscriptions even if all NPC's were replaced by green blobs.
It sounds to me that you are trying to come up with better gameplay when ALL mmorpgs have very weak gameplay. How is killing the same thing for no apparent purpose 100 times fun, hmm?
It will be a slow gradual process, less grinding in general = good, interacting with the environment = good, introducing more random aspects = good, I say come back in 2020.
Beauty and the Beast: The New, the Old, the Same
Today's MMORPGs are Somewhere Between the New and the Old: the Same
The beauty of MMORPG world-generation is the opportunity to create new, innovative, genuine, and unique worlds, characters, stories, and so forth. You can create features, gameplay, and other elements that really bring you not only into the Quest, but the world in general. When developers refuse, or are unable, to innovate the games do not seem old . . . they seem, and really are, the same.
Between what is new and old is really where we are today: the same. The same is not working. You, for example, are generating some ideas on Questing, diplomacy, etc. WE WANT NEW FEATURES. We have tried, and spent thousands upon thousands of hours trying, the same features. It is a "new" game in name only; it is for all practical intents and purposes so substantially similar to WoW that most people would rather play WoW. Time already invested, community, familiarity, and so on and so forth.
We need to get excited about creating something new and different and not about improving the old, calling it new, when it is really the same. New ideas, new features, new opportunities for customization and exploration. Player empowerment.
When We Enter, as an Industry, the New, We Will See Breakthrough Content/Features (and Breakthrough $ales)
(NEW IS NOT A "NEW" TITLE; OR A DIFFERENT GENRE; IT IS FEATURES, GAMEPLAY, OPPORTUNITIES, AND SO FORTH)
Declaredemer,
"Between what is new and old is really where we are today: the same. The same is not working. You, for example, are generating some ideas on Questing, diplomacy, etc. WE WANT NEW FEATURES. We have tried, and spent thousands upon thousands of hours trying, the same features. It is a "new" game in name only; it is for all practical intents and purposes so substantially similar to WoW that most people would rather play WoW. Time already invested, community, familiarity, and so on and so forth."
By your logic everything is the same. The games on my Atari 800 computer that used a "joystick" are the same as Xbox360 games. But, Beserker is not the same as God of War, even thought they are both using a joystick to dodge and destroy stuff.
To both people replying, I ask: why act like such a crumudgeon? You both are so negative. I have read many forums on this site, and it's amazing to me that you two even bother to read, let alone reply to posts. The people on this forum are smart, and more importantly, creative. Hence, why I posted such a topic. You two added nothing. All you did was complain how all the developers of these games have no idea on how to be creative. How the gamers are all drones that only like shiny things. It sounds to me like you've forgotten what makes you happy about these games. I suggest, load a game, look at all the work, creativity, beautifully crafted environments, increasingly good AI, and try to look at it with new eyes. Maybe even with rose colored glasses.
I apologize for the tangent, however, I feel entitled since at the end of my post I clearly stated I was looking forward to hearing from everyone as to whether these ideas were plausable, creative, and most important other good ideas. My post was not about the decline of gaming. It was meant as merely a creative outlet for posters with original ideas.
Multiple Goals!
Most MMO's goal is to hit max lvl. Which is getting OLD, real old. I want to see a game that you have many goals. when you start the game, you pick up one of this goals, be mayor, hit max lvl, be the game king, richest player, ... etc. When you hit your goal, you get a medal on your body, everyone can see. Now go to that NPC and set to yourself another goal. The goal system can be very complicated ... only need a bit of creativity. Contents to such game will be by adding more goals, Risky goals .. if you failed on that goal, you lose a medal ;p
^.^ pardon my bad English
Hi penandpaper,
Its funny, that many of the ideas you've propose are similar to what I'm developing in my MMO. Your Big Game Hunting concept sounds like fun and I did not consider that one. I'm developing an elaborate AI for my MMO and it would be ideal for that type of game play. Hunting could also tie-in neatly with the Crafting System. I'm adding Big Game Huntiing to my list of AI Behaviors. Thanks.
Not at all, Sir/Madame.
I have repeatedly stated that I am impressed with the innovative and immersion gameplay features in number games such as GTA and Fallout 3.
I have said that the MMORPG industry, not the gaming industry, is lacking in innovation.
To the OP, i know what you are getting at with your original post, but i think there are two major problems with the suggestions in question;
1 - Most of what you have suggested is available eleswhere, either in another game specifically designed around that idea or on the internet as an online game. The problem with adding some of these to an existing MMO or basing a new MMO around them is that there is already competition out there that creates specific expectations for the new version to live up to and if you fail to hit those it is instant MMO graveyard time.
2 - The diplomacy and questing outcome options would be the hardest technically to implement in an MMO because as soon as you introduce multiple branch outcomes you can quite easily lose control of the scale of a game. Lets say for example that a quest chain has 3 outcomes for each of the 4 quests completed, that means that by the end of the chain there are 27 (1*3*3*3) possible outcomes to be catered for, so even a small number of these types of quests can lead to thousands of permutations to be catered for for every player.
WoW has experimented with 'phased' quest areas with the Death Knight start area and Icecrown and it is a good experience, but it is all very linear where you have no real influence over the outcome, but good to watch none the less.
The thing is that truely original ideas always come out of left field and take everyone by surprise, so maybe someone will come up with an innovative way of implementing one of these things or something no-one has ever seen before, but it is long overdue.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
The main "new" feature is that I want to get rid of people who want to try "new" just for "new" sake. I am not at all against a different approach in gaming, but I'm against introducing new features just to be different, not to implement a really new concept. But every new concept you introduce into your game should be thought through, should be a relevant new game element, and should influence every part of gaming and your game world.
Diplomacy in vanguard is a card game. It could have been called anything really, diplomacy is just a pretext for a card based mini game. Some people like mini games, like crafting and harvesting, PvP, fishing, whatever. Why the OP is being brow beaten over it I don't know.
For the AI one, some games are trying but if AI was too realistic the game would be too hard. For the hunting example, how many deer would you kill in real life? Maybe one or two a day if you can hunt. If mobs that fight back were just as crafty the game would not be anything like current games. In all current games I know of, a player expects to mow through mobs at low to moderate rick of death. A game where you go out, hunt a troll, fight it, barely kill it and limp back to camp to heal and log out for the night would see even more brows wagging than a brow beating mini game in a hobbit tavern called the beating brow.
To OP-
There are a few games that have some of the flavor of what you are talking about. Most of them are single player games. The reason is all the programming that goes into them. It is easier to put content into those games rather than try and shoehorn it into a game for thousands.
MMOs are currently struggling for an indentity and as such we have broken into a few factions.
You have the self proclaimed Hard CORE who want to have to struggle apparently. Every task should be monumental. In my experience though a lot of these people want to get into a game early and level quick before a lot of content errors are fixed so they can lord over new players and explain how leet they are.
You have the carebears. They love to explore, quest and follow the story line. So even like to roleplay. But if you kill them, even if they are on a PvP server prepare for them to start cussing you out.
Then you have the casuals. No time to play and just want to jump in and have fun. These folks normally do not have time to even read the game manual much less the website. It cuts into their playing time. So they are not going to know while in a group they should not stand there or they will aggo all the mobs. LOL
Now granted, that is a lot of hasty generalization. But in practice it sums up the three main groups playing right now.
The current trend of games is to try and make games that cater to one main group that others may enjoy. So you get Darkfall (utlra hardcore sandbox), Warhammer (PvP centric with PVE flavor) and WOW (Pve and raid heavy with some PvP Flavor).
WOW seems to be the most popular so I guess that is a fairly unscientific way of saying which group has the most money to spend.
Personally I have played so many of these games they all start to run together. In the end I can level fast, get good gear and eventually burn out on a game in a rather short amount of time. All the things that devs put in to lengthen the game (IE grinding) only push me out that much sooner.
The newer games coming out try and address part of that witth Level advancement tied to skill caps for your level. They allow you to use skills and raise them as you like but only up to a certain cap within your level power. This removes the classes and makes everything more skill based. While still good it has the limitations of requiring you to keep grinding out skill doing things. One really good example of this is EVE where you can level your skills while you are offline. Sounds neat until you take into account some skills can take a week or more of real time to complete training.
The programming is not quite there were you could get the game you are looking for but we are close. Star Trek Online is said to have some heavy diplomacy metrics worked into it. Harvesting is going to remain a problem as long as they have the limitation issues on mob pathing. There are a lot of games that have dynamic changes that occur in regard to storied questing. Another words the game world changes for you but not for anyone else. That is still kind of limited. And some already have mini games in them.
For a good fix now I would recommend doing some google searches on things like "Top 10 RPG games of all time" and see what first person games you might have missed that are a lot of fun.
I like your idea about hunting, very good one actually.
As for the hobbit town it isn't new and something similar will show up in an upcommin MMO: Guildwars 2. Read an forum post by its creator more than 2 years ago (but he had naturaly thought a bit more about it.
Idea 1 have partially been done by Bioware in Neverwinter nights and KOTOR and will show up in TOR but I like the part about your clothes and jewels influences how people feel about you. It needs some tuning but can be intresting.
As for minigames that gives XP, no. People will sit and grind dart or poker at the pub instead of adventuring or craft stuff. Without XP as PvP minigames (poker works fine here) sure. People can bet money, not a bad idea but giving out XP is just to much.
Declaredemer,
I apologize for misinterpreting.
As for the hill giant idea, I was just thinking that each adventure could have three outcomes. That way, you wouldn't completely alienate others. It would just split the population for that zone into thirds. Of course, thinking about it, that may be a game killer unless you had the numbers. But nonetheless, I was just thinking of how much my friends and I enjoyed Guild Wars when it changed in the beginning. (You know, the quiet tranquil area to the death doom and gloom area.) But, if it's the same for everyone, then what's the point other than to continue a story.
Also, how hard is it to program an animal or creature's reaction to you if you are holding a certain item. For example, Indiana Jones falls into the pit full of snakes. However, he has torch and holds it near the ground, so the snakes respond accordingly. Is that difficult? Maybe interaction with the environment as well. How about a torch going out when you dive into the water? Or sinking when wearing armor? Just a thought.
Spoken like a true MMO designer. You (like them, assuming you are not) have nearly without exception failed to understand that an MMO is not a game like GTA or PacMan or even Online Poker. It is an enviroment that supports, and in fact is the desired conduit to, a social network of the playerbase. It is the link an average MMO player uses to 'play' with his 'real-live' friends.
Give them tools in your enviroment for when they are bored or unable to continue with the objectives you've set forth for them to conqueor and you will be rewarded with their continued subscription fee while drinking a coke and playing Chess with their friends in Your (continously funded) environment. Fail to do that and their friends might start to disappear one day which eventually leads them to follow to other people's enviroments (say byebye to your funding) to regroup or form new 'real live' friendships.
Get it? I am not surprised if not, as many of these execs seemingly neverwill.