My issue with MMOs is that story really has no bearing on the content. It's all scripted and no matter how you respond or react to an NPC's story, it changes nothing. Your path is set, there is no consequence for your behavior toward that NPC other than adding a "faction grind". There may be a story to a quest, but it still has you kill X number of mobs or run back and forth to various NPCs only to end up killing X number of mobs. If you decide not to kill those mobs due to having a conscience, it won't change the story, it just ends the quest until you break down and kill them. Thank God for Bioware, they will be the first company to implement story lines that change depending on your decisions, which can completely change the direction the quest was originally going to take. Stories that you can feel vested in are far more engaging and worth reading about. If I just wanted to read scripted text (current MMOs) I'd read a book that does it much better.
I want a game that not only let's me impact my own story, but the story of the virtual world too. I would also like a world that can be changed physically due to events in the story and are not reversed unless someone quests to reverse it.
Use your imagination much? Seriously, if every action every player did had a consequence or changed the world somehow, it would become ridiculously stupid. The quests are there to help guide your imagination as you play the role of whatever character you want. What happens within the world based on your actions, is left to your own imagination, where it belongs in my opinion.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I like in how in Guild Wars you are max level very early on in the game (especially in Nightfall, Factions and EotN) and you have to go through content at max lvl. No 'cheating' by being too high lvl for the content that you do. Also no problems with teaming up with friends because they are way too low lvl.
Lot of players dont like this. Even with the metagame of gaining more skills or developing your heroes (skills, gear). I think I know why. A lot of players prefer an easy button. Easy but long leveling with a lack of challenge. Because you always can go farm at a spot for xp and return to that quest stronger.
This is the main flaw of games with high lvls. Its not a game anymore, but some low form of entertainment.
The only games that did the lvling right, were games that adapted the mob lvl automatically to your toon's level. But this needs instancing (City of Heroes). The rest high lvl MMO's are just way too easy for my taste.
"What are you talking about "Neverwinter Nights hasn't been around for some time??" I still play it single player all the TIME. AND....if you want co-op play, there's NWN2......unless NWN2 has been shut down and I didn't hear about it?'
Leveling is the worst part of any MMORPG... geez why on earth would you want leveling to be slower than it already is? there's no "skill" involved hitting max level, shit, any unemployed bum living with his parents could hit max level easily... but for those of us with social lives and you know.. jobs? it takes a while..
To add to this, and I do agree with it, in part.....there's also the matter of the myriads of people that totally blow by the content. They scream for content, but their definition of "content," is what is at question.
For instance, how many of you ever even bother to READ quests? Do you know the game lore of whatever MMO you're playing? Do you care? Do you follow the unfolding of the STORY throughout a game? Do you ever stop to wonder just who that NPC is that you just spoke to and what their "motives" are in the situation? Do you gather with guildmates for "parties," plans of attack on opposing factions? Do you roleplay (no, I don't mean in the MAJOR sense of what's done on pure RP type servers, but just playing around)? Do you, while questing, ever go wandering off to explore some area you see far away that looks interesting?
I would guess most people would answer no to MOST of that. Why? Because everyone is so fracking hell-fired up to just GRIND quests and mobs to reach the "ultimate goal" of max level. Why? Why is that? When did people start expecting MMORPGs to play like FPS games? I don't get that at all.
If you don't like stories, questing, and having your own imaginary role in the unfolding of said stories....why are you playing an MMORPG? Why not play...oh, I don't know....an online FPS? No worries with quests, levels, stories, etc. Plus, you can still work on upgrading your gear (since that seems pretty important) and focus on just whoopin' ass without having to be bothered with READING and following stories or anything "lame" like that. If players would just slow down and enjoy the JOURNEY and actually play the content that is IN most of these games.....you wouldn't level QUITE so damn fast.
I'm just sayin'..........
My issue with MMOs is that story really has no bearing on the content. It's all scripted and no matter how you respond or react to an NPC's story, it changes nothing. Your path is set, there is no consequence for your behavior toward that NPC other than adding a "faction grind". There may be a story to a quest, but it still has you kill X number of mobs or run back and forth to various NPCs only to end up killing X number of mobs. If you decide not to kill those mobs due to having a conscience, it won't change the story, it just ends the quest until you break down and kill them.
Thank God for Bioware, they will be the first company to implement story lines that change depending on your decisions, which can completely change the direction the quest was originally going to take. Stories that you can feel vested in are far more engaging and worth reading about. If I just wanted to read scripted text (current MMOs) I'd read a book that does it much better.
I want a game that not only let's me impact my own story, but the story of the virtual world too. I would also like a world that can be changed physically due to events in the story and are not reversed unless someone quests to reverse it.
O M G....I could NOT agree more.
I just hope that they are actually able to successfully implement something so dynamic. Because you're absolutely right. And while I did think Blizzard's thing they did (mostly in Icecrown) with your actions actually permanently changing the environment was cool....it did pose some problems too, because it affected, to a medium degree, I guess, who you could group to do what quests with there, because then not everyone could even SEE the same things in the zone. But it was an interesting step in the DIRECTION of dynamic quests.
But the ala-Fable type decisions that actually change the course and outcome of your character....that is MUCH more a factor, I think, in drawing you into the character and story.
I seriously hope Bioware can pull this off beautifully with ToR.
"What are you talking about "Neverwinter Nights hasn't been around for some time??" I still play it single player all the TIME. AND....if you want co-op play, there's NWN2......unless NWN2 has been shut down and I didn't hear about it?'
"What are you talking about "Neverwinter Nights hasn't been around for some time??" I still play it single player all the TIME. AND....if you want co-op play, there's NWN2......unless NWN2 has been shut down and I didn't hear about it?'
I totally agree. So many games are about reaching max level and then the awesome content opens up, and your status is determined by the hours you put into aquiring gear. Don't get me wrong I love the diversity of gear and the prestige of having something epic, but what if your level was part of the prestige. The sad this is that Diablo II had a larger leveling curve then most most modern mmo's do; pre hacks.
"Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's azz by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather to take his word for it?" - Tommy Boy
"What are you talking about "Neverwinter Nights hasn't been around for some time??" I still play it single player all the TIME. AND....if you want co-op play, there's NWN2......unless NWN2 has been shut down and I didn't hear about it?'
FFXI had the same core "goal" as WoW, which all the fan-kids (Of both games) seem to not realize as they scream their loyalty and kudos for their chosen game.
WoW and FFXI and every other game focuses around: Leveling to cap. Then getting uber gear. The only "end game" in any game out there at this point must be reached by that formula.
And it's old and boring.
You're right every MMORPG main goal is to get to level cap but at least some games made it interestng on the way to cap.
In FFXI you did go for uber gear but there was other things to do. In WoW thats all it was about, most of the crafting in WoW was pointless, you'd get better armor and weapons in dungeons and in like. When you got that gear it was obsolete in a few days because you leveled so fast.
FFXI had interesting quests, that unlocked things like Subjob, new areas you can go, New jobs to master, level caps raised. Crafting actually had a purpose, I could breed my own chocobo's and race them and gamble. You had other things to do than just grind a way for gear till max level.
In WoW everything was handed to you and there is nothing else to really do except solo quests then do a dungeon run and craft a few things that were actually useful. Now thats what I all boring.
Sorry, FFXI's "unlocking" quests were tedious and awful and did not play enough of a part in that game to "add extra things to do". Firstly, the main quests were only do-able every "so many" levels. Then there were the IDIOTIC genkai quests which were just the most inane thing I've ever witnessed. The crafting wasn't in depth - it was a pain and the only "in depth" part about it was how much of a timesink farming for the materials was. And most of the mats for anything decent came from over-camped rare NM spawns that.......*gasp* you could only do at endgame and were one of the few things TO DO at end game.
Pretty much everything you said there is completely opinion, so I won't bother rebutting it, beyond saying I disagree with most of it.
However... The comment about camping rare NM spawns being one of the few things to do at end-game is completely wrong.
Einjerjiar, Dynamis, Salvage, Nyzul Isle, Assault, merit parties, Campaign, Besieged, BCNMs, KSNMs, ZNMs, storyline missions... just a partial list of things you can do at end-game (and before in some cases) that have nothing to do with camping rare spawns. Besides that, yes... you can hunt rare spawns, you can do Sky/Sea runs, etc.
If you don't like FFXI, that's fine. But at least check your facts and make sure you're giving an accurate representation of something before commenting on it. Perhaps you don't care about those activities, but it doesn't change the fact that they're content available at end-game.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
FFXI had the same core "goal" as WoW, which all the fan-kids (Of both games) seem to not realize as they scream their loyalty and kudos for their chosen game.
WoW and FFXI and every other game focuses around: Leveling to cap. Then getting uber gear. The only "end game" in any game out there at this point must be reached by that formula.
And it's old and boring.
See... this is what I have a problem with. People projecting their own limited point-of-view on everyone else, insisting anyone who doesn't agree with them "doesn't get it".
We get it just fine, thank you. Please stop presuming to know what everyone else likes or expects better than they do, okay?
You know what my main goal is and always has been in FFXI? Logging in and having fun, no matter what I was doing. Racing to end-game was not a main goal... having fun along the way, however long it took, was. There is far more to do in FFXI than just "racing to end-game and getting uber gear". There are people who've been playing since launch, have several jobs to 75 and have done a ton of things in the game who will tell you they've still got a lot they haven't done yet.
Are there people who strictly race to end-game and go for uber loot? Of course. But those people are limiting the game through their own playstyle, not through limits in what the game offers. If you play a game as nothing more than a grind to end-game, then that's all it's going to be. That's not the developers' fault... at least not in the case of FFXI.
That said, racing to end-game and raiding for the uber loot non-stop is *one* way someone might choose to play a MMO. It's not the only way. Problem is, that "the end game is all that matters in a MMO" has become a popular point-of-view; imposing a "win condition" on a genre that, by design doesn't have one.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
There is no problem. There are games that level slowly and some that are fast, just play the ones that level slowly and you're set. Stop trying to make everyone else play the way you think they should.
Just out of curriousity, who's trying to make everyone else play the way they think others should?
Shouldn't that be obvious? The ones who keep bitching about fast leveling in fast leveling games. Either deal with it or move to a game that doesn't level quickly for crying out loud.
Sitting in a fast leveling game and whining about how fast people level is really ridiculous.
No more so than the people who play a slow leveling game and then bitch about how leveling isn't fast enough.... and I've encountered plenty of those.
That door swings both ways.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
My issue with MMOs is that story really has no bearing on the content. It's all scripted and no matter how you respond or react to an NPC's story, it changes nothing. Your path is set, there is no consequence for your behavior toward that NPC other than adding a "faction grind". There may be a story to a quest, but it still has you kill X number of mobs or run back and forth to various NPCs only to end up killing X number of mobs. If you decide not to kill those mobs due to having a conscience, it won't change the story, it just ends the quest until you break down and kill them. Thank God for Bioware, they will be the first company to implement story lines that change depending on your decisions, which can completely change the direction the quest was originally going to take. Stories that you can feel vested in are far more engaging and worth reading about. If I just wanted to read scripted text (current MMOs) I'd read a book that does it much better.
I want a game that not only let's me impact my own story, but the story of the virtual world too. I would also like a world that can be changed physically due to events in the story and are not reversed unless someone quests to reverse it.
Use your imagination much? Seriously, if every action every player did had a consequence or changed the world somehow, it would become ridiculously stupid. The quests are there to help guide your imagination as you play the role of whatever character you want. What happens within the world based on your actions, is left to your own imagination, where it belongs in my opinion.
What in the heck are you talking about? For one, this has nothing to do with my capabilities to imagine. Second, there are already technologies in place that allow servers to make these kinds of changes on the fly. There is a game in developement right now that will allow you to change the physical world depending on whether you help someone say save a village that is being attacked and is on fire. If you help them, there is a celebration and the burning, dilapitated buildings are repaired and a whole slew of new quests open up as a result. If you don't, then the village could actually be destroyed completely, removing it from the map, but this also opens up a whole slew of quests where you could possibly help them rebuild the village.
This kind of game play has huge potential for entertainment and for giving you a greater sense of accomplishment and add meaning to your adventures. You can use your imagination in anything you do, but for me, a game would be so much more interesting if my actions actually had an impact on current and future events. I seriously don't think I'm alone in this belief.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Ive played all those games except for DF because it just looks horrid. Aion looked interesting but I don't like the fact of having small zoned areas that are in channels, like AoC. But don't you see a pattern there, all those games save for DF and Aion are all Pre WoW games, and some have been changed to be more casual friendly. Most all of these new games are using the WoW construct which sucks IMO.
Ive just had a hard time finding a game I enjoy that also has longer leveling. The problem with Post-Wow games is its all solo quest grinding which I hate, then you group up to get that uber gear. Nobody talks unless they bitch at you and they run through the dungeon as fast as possible. Nobody will group up with you to quest because they can easily solo it . I want to be in a group almost 24/7, I just want to go out on an adventure not care about gaining levels or getting gear. Doing quests for the fun of it not for xp.
But nobody really seems to want to do that anymore becaue all the fun starts at the endgame with most games now and its just a race to max and I get bored before I even get to max level. Hell I didn't even make it past lvl 50 in WoW before I got bored and it took me 7 days game time to get there and yes I even took my time to get that far. I say there is something wrong with that, why not make the game longer to level but interesting and fun all the way to max and have even more stuff at the end.
I think you and I need to keep in touch when XIV launches, 'cause I'm in the same boat as you. I actually like taking the time to go through the quests just for the challenge of finishing them, and getting to experience the storyline, etc...
So.... keep that in mind as FFXIV's launch gets closer :-p
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Also, I started playing WoW the day it released. I just hit 60 (yes 60, not 80) about a year ago and just got 75 last night. I have played the game very throroughly and made numerous alts. I also took a break every time a new MMO was released. 5 years later and I am just starting to get burnt out on the game. I guess everybody plays differently, but I take my time, play other games, make alts, do other stuff besides game etc.
Originally posted by Scagweed22 is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
Originally posted by WSIMike No more so than the people who play a slow leveling game and then bitch about how leveling isn't fast enough.... and I've encountered plenty of those.
That door swings both ways.
I never said otherwise, anyone who sits on a game that is absolutely not designed to be played the way they want to play and complains about it needs to go elsewhere.
Those games are too slow and progression is not noticeable. Take WOW as an example. Just leveling from 1-80 can easily take 10 days played or even longer. That is 240 hrs, and if you play like 3 hrs a day, it takes 80 days .. with diong some other stuff, it easily take 3 months. (Just as a point of comparison, it took me like 4+ months to level my main to L70 .. that is before WOTLK). 3-4 months is a LONG time for a game. Plus you can always grind for gear that last AFTER your leveling.
Lol, this reminds me of the classic sex therapist idiom, where the husband says "she hardly ever wants it... maybe 3 times a week" and the wife says "Its all he ever thinks about, we do it all the time!... like 3 times a week!"
3-4 months doesnt seem all that long to me... hell I have been playing Fallout3 about that long.
Comments
Use your imagination much? Seriously, if every action every player did had a consequence or changed the world somehow, it would become ridiculously stupid. The quests are there to help guide your imagination as you play the role of whatever character you want. What happens within the world based on your actions, is left to your own imagination, where it belongs in my opinion.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I like in how in Guild Wars you are max level very early on in the game (especially in Nightfall, Factions and EotN) and you have to go through content at max lvl. No 'cheating' by being too high lvl for the content that you do. Also no problems with teaming up with friends because they are way too low lvl.
Lot of players dont like this. Even with the metagame of gaining more skills or developing your heroes (skills, gear). I think I know why. A lot of players prefer an easy button. Easy but long leveling with a lack of challenge. Because you always can go farm at a spot for xp and return to that quest stronger.
This is the main flaw of games with high lvls. Its not a game anymore, but some low form of entertainment.
The only games that did the lvling right, were games that adapted the mob lvl automatically to your toon's level. But this needs instancing (City of Heroes). The rest high lvl MMO's are just way too easy for my taste.
"What are you talking about "Neverwinter Nights hasn't been around for some time??" I still play it single player all the TIME. AND....if you want co-op play, there's NWN2......unless NWN2 has been shut down and I didn't hear about it?'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_(AOL_game)
To add to this, and I do agree with it, in part.....there's also the matter of the myriads of people that totally blow by the content. They scream for content, but their definition of "content," is what is at question.
For instance, how many of you ever even bother to READ quests? Do you know the game lore of whatever MMO you're playing? Do you care? Do you follow the unfolding of the STORY throughout a game? Do you ever stop to wonder just who that NPC is that you just spoke to and what their "motives" are in the situation? Do you gather with guildmates for "parties," plans of attack on opposing factions? Do you roleplay (no, I don't mean in the MAJOR sense of what's done on pure RP type servers, but just playing around)? Do you, while questing, ever go wandering off to explore some area you see far away that looks interesting?
I would guess most people would answer no to MOST of that. Why? Because everyone is so fracking hell-fired up to just GRIND quests and mobs to reach the "ultimate goal" of max level. Why? Why is that? When did people start expecting MMORPGs to play like FPS games? I don't get that at all.
If you don't like stories, questing, and having your own imaginary role in the unfolding of said stories....why are you playing an MMORPG? Why not play...oh, I don't know....an online FPS? No worries with quests, levels, stories, etc. Plus, you can still work on upgrading your gear (since that seems pretty important) and focus on just whoopin' ass without having to be bothered with READING and following stories or anything "lame" like that. If players would just slow down and enjoy the JOURNEY and actually play the content that is IN most of these games.....you wouldn't level QUITE so damn fast.
I'm just sayin'..........
My issue with MMOs is that story really has no bearing on the content. It's all scripted and no matter how you respond or react to an NPC's story, it changes nothing. Your path is set, there is no consequence for your behavior toward that NPC other than adding a "faction grind". There may be a story to a quest, but it still has you kill X number of mobs or run back and forth to various NPCs only to end up killing X number of mobs. If you decide not to kill those mobs due to having a conscience, it won't change the story, it just ends the quest until you break down and kill them.
Thank God for Bioware, they will be the first company to implement story lines that change depending on your decisions, which can completely change the direction the quest was originally going to take. Stories that you can feel vested in are far more engaging and worth reading about. If I just wanted to read scripted text (current MMOs) I'd read a book that does it much better.
I want a game that not only let's me impact my own story, but the story of the virtual world too. I would also like a world that can be changed physically due to events in the story and are not reversed unless someone quests to reverse it.
O M G....I could NOT agree more.
I just hope that they are actually able to successfully implement something so dynamic. Because you're absolutely right. And while I did think Blizzard's thing they did (mostly in Icecrown) with your actions actually permanently changing the environment was cool....it did pose some problems too, because it affected, to a medium degree, I guess, who you could group to do what quests with there, because then not everyone could even SEE the same things in the zone. But it was an interesting step in the DIRECTION of dynamic quests.
But the ala-Fable type decisions that actually change the course and outcome of your character....that is MUCH more a factor, I think, in drawing you into the character and story.
I seriously hope Bioware can pull this off beautifully with ToR.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I was referring to two DIFFERENT games than you were:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_2
You were referring to the much oooolder NWN. Gotcha!
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I was referring to two DIFFERENT games than you were:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_2
You were referring to the much oooolder NWN. Gotcha!
Ya, i may have forgotten to put "original"..
We used to pay for that game by the hour... My wife would see the bill, and sometimes, it wasn't pretty ; )
I totally agree. So many games are about reaching max level and then the awesome content opens up, and your status is determined by the hours you put into aquiring gear. Don't get me wrong I love the diversity of gear and the prestige of having something epic, but what if your level was part of the prestige. The sad this is that Diablo II had a larger leveling curve then most most modern mmo's do; pre hacks.
[(T+G=W)=Gr*Nf]-S=FoF
T=Time G=Gear W=Win Gr=Grind Nf=NoFun S=Skill FoF=FullofFail
"Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's azz by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather to take his word for it?" - Tommy Boy
I was referring to two DIFFERENT games than you were:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_2
You were referring to the much oooolder NWN. Gotcha!
Ya, i may have forgotten to put "original"..
We used to pay for that game by the hour... My wife would see the bill, and sometimes, it wasn't pretty ; )
Wow, yay! Finally met someone else as "old" as I am that REMEMBERS that "by the hour" internet access! LOL
Nice to "e-meet" you!
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
You're right every MMORPG main goal is to get to level cap but at least some games made it interestng on the way to cap.
In FFXI you did go for uber gear but there was other things to do. In WoW thats all it was about, most of the crafting in WoW was pointless, you'd get better armor and weapons in dungeons and in like. When you got that gear it was obsolete in a few days because you leveled so fast.
FFXI had interesting quests, that unlocked things like Subjob, new areas you can go, New jobs to master, level caps raised. Crafting actually had a purpose, I could breed my own chocobo's and race them and gamble. You had other things to do than just grind a way for gear till max level.
In WoW everything was handed to you and there is nothing else to really do except solo quests then do a dungeon run and craft a few things that were actually useful. Now thats what I all boring.
Sorry, FFXI's "unlocking" quests were tedious and awful and did not play enough of a part in that game to "add extra things to do". Firstly, the main quests were only do-able every "so many" levels. Then there were the IDIOTIC genkai quests which were just the most inane thing I've ever witnessed. The crafting wasn't in depth - it was a pain and the only "in depth" part about it was how much of a timesink farming for the materials was. And most of the mats for anything decent came from over-camped rare NM spawns that.......*gasp* you could only do at endgame and were one of the few things TO DO at end game.
Pretty much everything you said there is completely opinion, so I won't bother rebutting it, beyond saying I disagree with most of it.
However... The comment about camping rare NM spawns being one of the few things to do at end-game is completely wrong.
Einjerjiar, Dynamis, Salvage, Nyzul Isle, Assault, merit parties, Campaign, Besieged, BCNMs, KSNMs, ZNMs, storyline missions... just a partial list of things you can do at end-game (and before in some cases) that have nothing to do with camping rare spawns. Besides that, yes... you can hunt rare spawns, you can do Sky/Sea runs, etc.
If you don't like FFXI, that's fine. But at least check your facts and make sure you're giving an accurate representation of something before commenting on it. Perhaps you don't care about those activities, but it doesn't change the fact that they're content available at end-game.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
See... this is what I have a problem with. People projecting their own limited point-of-view on everyone else, insisting anyone who doesn't agree with them "doesn't get it".
We get it just fine, thank you. Please stop presuming to know what everyone else likes or expects better than they do, okay?
You know what my main goal is and always has been in FFXI? Logging in and having fun, no matter what I was doing. Racing to end-game was not a main goal... having fun along the way, however long it took, was. There is far more to do in FFXI than just "racing to end-game and getting uber gear". There are people who've been playing since launch, have several jobs to 75 and have done a ton of things in the game who will tell you they've still got a lot they haven't done yet.
Are there people who strictly race to end-game and go for uber loot? Of course. But those people are limiting the game through their own playstyle, not through limits in what the game offers. If you play a game as nothing more than a grind to end-game, then that's all it's going to be. That's not the developers' fault... at least not in the case of FFXI.
That said, racing to end-game and raiding for the uber loot non-stop is *one* way someone might choose to play a MMO. It's not the only way. Problem is, that "the end game is all that matters in a MMO" has become a popular point-of-view; imposing a "win condition" on a genre that, by design doesn't have one.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Just out of curriousity, who's trying to make everyone else play the way they think others should?
Shouldn't that be obvious? The ones who keep bitching about fast leveling in fast leveling games. Either deal with it or move to a game that doesn't level quickly for crying out loud.
Sitting in a fast leveling game and whining about how fast people level is really ridiculous.
No more so than the people who play a slow leveling game and then bitch about how leveling isn't fast enough.... and I've encountered plenty of those.
That door swings both ways.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Use your imagination much? Seriously, if every action every player did had a consequence or changed the world somehow, it would become ridiculously stupid. The quests are there to help guide your imagination as you play the role of whatever character you want. What happens within the world based on your actions, is left to your own imagination, where it belongs in my opinion.
What in the heck are you talking about? For one, this has nothing to do with my capabilities to imagine. Second, there are already technologies in place that allow servers to make these kinds of changes on the fly. There is a game in developement right now that will allow you to change the physical world depending on whether you help someone say save a village that is being attacked and is on fire. If you help them, there is a celebration and the burning, dilapitated buildings are repaired and a whole slew of new quests open up as a result. If you don't, then the village could actually be destroyed completely, removing it from the map, but this also opens up a whole slew of quests where you could possibly help them rebuild the village.
This kind of game play has huge potential for entertainment and for giving you a greater sense of accomplishment and add meaning to your adventures. You can use your imagination in anything you do, but for me, a game would be so much more interesting if my actions actually had an impact on current and future events. I seriously don't think I'm alone in this belief.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Ive played all those games except for DF because it just looks horrid. Aion looked interesting but I don't like the fact of having small zoned areas that are in channels, like AoC. But don't you see a pattern there, all those games save for DF and Aion are all Pre WoW games, and some have been changed to be more casual friendly. Most all of these new games are using the WoW construct which sucks IMO.
Ive just had a hard time finding a game I enjoy that also has longer leveling. The problem with Post-Wow games is its all solo quest grinding which I hate, then you group up to get that uber gear. Nobody talks unless they bitch at you and they run through the dungeon as fast as possible. Nobody will group up with you to quest because they can easily solo it . I want to be in a group almost 24/7, I just want to go out on an adventure not care about gaining levels or getting gear. Doing quests for the fun of it not for xp.
But nobody really seems to want to do that anymore becaue all the fun starts at the endgame with most games now and its just a race to max and I get bored before I even get to max level. Hell I didn't even make it past lvl 50 in WoW before I got bored and it took me 7 days game time to get there and yes I even took my time to get that far. I say there is something wrong with that, why not make the game longer to level but interesting and fun all the way to max and have even more stuff at the end.
I think you and I need to keep in touch when XIV launches, 'cause I'm in the same boat as you. I actually like taking the time to go through the quests just for the challenge of finishing them, and getting to experience the storyline, etc...
So.... keep that in mind as FFXIV's launch gets closer :-p
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Final Fantasy XI is what you are looking for.
Also, I started playing WoW the day it released. I just hit 60 (yes 60, not 80) about a year ago and just got 75 last night. I have played the game very throroughly and made numerous alts. I also took a break every time a new MMO was released. 5 years later and I am just starting to get burnt out on the game. I guess everybody plays differently, but I take my time, play other games, make alts, do other stuff besides game etc.
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
I never said otherwise, anyone who sits on a game that is absolutely not designed to be played the way they want to play and complains about it needs to go elsewhere.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
true, true, true.
Lol, this reminds me of the classic sex therapist idiom, where the husband says "she hardly ever wants it... maybe 3 times a week" and the wife says "Its all he ever thinks about, we do it all the time!... like 3 times a week!"
3-4 months doesnt seem all that long to me... hell I have been playing Fallout3 about that long.