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The Health Care battle and what it means to me now
daeandor
Member UncommonPosts: 2,695
WASHINGTON – House Democrats plan to pay for a sweeping health care overhaul by boosting taxes on the wealthy.
The taxes will hit households with incomes of $350,000 a year and above.
Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel of New York said the tax would raise $540 billion over 10 years.
In combination with cuts to Medicare and Medicaid that would pay for a comprehensive health bill in the range of $1 trillion.
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090710/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul
So, what do you guys think about the route they are taking with this bill?
Personally, I have a beef with insurance companies, but that is seperate from what this bill is doing. Essentially, it is saying to me, as one of the "wealthy" that I not only have to pay for my own family's insurance, but that of other family as well. Why? Because, my insurance costs about $9.5k per year in payroll deductions. This bill is going to raise my taxes by 3%, which amounts to roughly $12,000.
But here's my beef with paying more: If I knew for a fact that paying 12k per year would actually go toward insuring another whole family, I would be more than happy to do it. Actually, 12k would cover insurance for two families if I set it up myself. I mean, I already donate tens of thousands of dollars to local charities per year, why not a little more to ensure a whole family or two are insured? But wait, I also feel that I cannot trust my government to manage that money and in reality it is going to go to something else entirely. So, I don't like it. Actually, I don't like it one bit.
So, why not give me the ability to pay that 3% directly to an insurer in the name of a family (or 2) of my choosing? Sure, if I elect not do that, tax me 3% more, but if I do choose to do it, give me the tax credit.
Your thoughts?
Comments
If I were a rich person right now(which I am not) I would feel as though I had a bullseye on my back and have to endure repeated shots from this administration.I dont really know what to tell you.This country is becoming one where you will reap the same rewards as someone who works their tail off even if you dont work.We really needed Romney to been the Nom with a Win for President.
I LOVE this idea! I'm glad someone actually might propose this. Since the majority of people in the United States make no where near this figure, it could stand a good chance of passing.
The only way it could be countered is if all the rich guys and CEO heads hired a bunch of people to sit and lay around Washington politicians's feet all day outside their offices. They could pay these people huge sums of money to make sure they convinced politicians to shoot this down or scare the common man into thinking the government was trying to tax THEM, instead of the obscenely rich guys.
They could call them "lobbyists". This would be the only way to stop something like this.
Fortunately, the super rich in America hasn't thought of this idea yet.
"TO MICHAEL!"
What if I sell a movie script I've been working on for 10 years for 350k? That equals 35k a year, a modest salary. Will I still be considered filthy rich just because all of my pay came at once in a single year?
What if you owned tons of businesses and 350k was nothing to you but a golden toilet in your sixth house?
Or if you had more cars and houses than John McCain?
"TO MICHAEL!"
I love how people are acting like the 250/350K plus crowd is going to be taxed until they're left with 30-40k. They're still going to be way above everyone else.
The Official God FAQ
Guys, that wasn't the intent. My intent is: If you are going to tax me, use my money wisely.
I pay around 70k / year in income taxes, about 22k in other state and property taxes, and about 78k / year in corporate taxes, adding 12k more to that isn't a huge deal, I still have money left. However, why should I pay it in taxes when I could actually take care of families with it? Seriously, my household taxes could pay for a ton of crap for an individual family or two, but instead it goes to a government that is going to use it to pay for another program which won't do what is advertised.
I LOVE this idea! I'm glad someone actually might propose this. Since the majority of people in the United States make no where near this figure, it could stand a good chance of passing.
The only way it could be countered is if all the rich guys and CEO heads hired a bunch of people to sit and lay around Washington politicians's feet all day outside their offices. They could pay these people huge sums of money to make sure they convinced politicians to shoot this down or scare the common man into thinking the government was trying to tax THEM, instead of the obscenely rich guys.
They could call them "lobbyists". This would be the only way to stop something like this.
Fortunately, the super rich in America hasn't thought of this idea yet.
If you think that 350k is obscenely rich, you need to look at what those people are doing that make that money. Most of them are small business owners or other entrepreneurs which not only provide local communities with jobs and services, but also have to live with being the most highly taxed members of American society. Not to mention that they number in the neighborhood of 7 million Americans.
[Mod Edit]
He's young. Give him time. One day he'll get a job and realize just how oppressive the government is to him, even though he isn't filthy rich. It will be quite a revelation for him. Until then he will assume things are not all rainbows and sunshine because the government needs just a little more. Always just a little more.
Sorry, to the average HOUSEHOLD in the U.S. making $48kish a year, 350K isn't peanuts and no where near hard times. And stop with the "Boohoo. They employ X amount of people and provide Y service and pay Z taxes." That argument simply. Does. Not. Fly. Anymore.
All these people crying about how they'll have to shut down, right. Like they really are going to move, lol. Try going to Europe and seeing how that works with your business. Try paying for gas over there and see how that works. Try hiring employees in countries where you are ALREADY legally mandated to help pay for their national benefits at much HIGHER rates than here. American businessmen already know what a great deal it is to come and not have to worry about communities here.
All the government needs to do is start heavily fining companies that open a plant in say, Honduras, but wants to sell those goods expensively here. Fine them the difference so that these companies can't just go down there and pay someone $2/hr when they SHOULD be paying the American worker $10. When they try to sell that here, make them tack on another $5 in taxes so that companies here can compete. That will stop the Walmarts. That will discourage undercutting the American worker, then you give BREAKS to companies that stay here.
But anyone over 350K a year should be paying more for the priveledge of doing business in America under freedom and protection from third world instability.
[Mod Edit]
"TO MICHAEL!"
The weird thing is that the "wealthy" do not make 350,000; they typically make much (much) less; this is a tax increase on the upper middle-class.
Sparta . . . fascinating society, albeit invalid analogy. Sparta was led by a small number of Spartiates who enjoyed privileges of full citizenship. The second-class citizens, somewhat larger in number than the Spartiates, were the Perioeci. Then, of course, you had the slaves, known as Helots. The Helots outnumbered the Spartiates . . . at least twenty to one. At least. Now this is not a discourse about socialism or history or ancient civilizations.
Spartan woman giving the shield to her son, Jean-Jacques-Francois Le Barbier ( 1738-1826)
In order to suppress slave rebellions, the Spartans became military specialists
The point is that the high income households are not "wealthy" households; they are every much the worker as everyone else. These are the Perioeci, if you will. You do not tax the Spartiates, and the Helots have hardly anything worth taxing.
Exactly. The Spartiates are writing the laws, so of course they exempt themselves. Meanwhile, the Helots are convinced (by the clever Spartiates) that the Perioeci are the real problem. This scam is so transparent and yet the Helots fail to see it at all. So the Helots work tirelessly against the Perioeci, not even recognizing that they are doing the bidding of the Spartiates, and effectivly hurting themselves.
I'm sorry, but you honestly have no clue what you are talking about.
If you honestly feel that my paying over 140k per year to government entities is not relevant, do you even understand how much that is? If there are nearly 7 million people like me, that means that we are paying $980,000,000,000 in taxes. That is literally 1/3 of the Federal Budget placed on 2%, that is two freaking percent, of the population.
[Mod Edit]
That's okay. It's my opinion and I think I'm entitled to it. I think people making more than 350K should chip in a bit more. It's not like they really need all those extra profit from overcharging their customers for things.
If it were put to a vote if we should tax people making 350k at a higher rate to pay for healthcare, I'd vote yes. I think it's only the fair thing as part of the overall social responsiblity for those people you are charging a lot of money to buy your goods for, that you help the social fabric as well.
Rightly or wrongly, that's how I'd vote. I can only hope the rest of America making under 100K as a family sees it this way too, then we might just get some healthcare for everyone. Rich and poor.
"TO MICHAEL!"
The insurers today are united under America's Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) www.ahip.org/. The lobby wants all Americans insured, which the this lobby group's members will supply. Yes. They support a plan in which all Americans would be required to be insured with their insurance, of course.
You of course also have the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) www.phrma.org/. They are downright adamant in their opposition to allowing drug REIMPORTATION for Americans from other countries. LOLz.
Today's health care lobbiest looks like a reunion of OLD-SCHOOL Democrats (retired leaders). If I did not laugh - I'd cry. These so-called "reforms" look like a boon for the industry.
More hope based strategy? Whats more likely is that the upper middle class will be fleeced and that money will be sent to the rich. I'm sure they'll appreciate your assistance in making it happen.
More hope based strategy? Whats more likely is that the upper middle class will be fleeced and that money will be sent to the rich. I'm sure they'll appreciate your assistance in making it happen.
Well, we shall see.
Top 1% income
They now pay more in taxes but they now earn more income than ever before. Seems like its working. Now if we can only get them to stop hiding all they are SUPPOSED to pay in trust/hedge funds, offshore and Swissbank accounts. If we can get them to pay that honestly, maybe we don't have to raise taxes.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Yay for bans right after you make a topic....
Pop, you still don't want to see class warfare the left is feeding you. Apparently the people that are going to get taxed now are those that make $280k plus. Now, declaredemer has spelled it out to you, but I'll be more plain. They are taxing the upper middle class and small business owners. The Republicans are right when they say that this will hurt those people a lot and have real repercussions in the economy. They are already the most highly taxed segment of America, and this plan is just going to increase that tax. You are right, the super-rich have their money off shore and disguised, but honestly, the small business owners and upper middle class have not resorted to that..... yet. And by the way, super-rich is not making 280k / year. You may think it is because you pigeonholed yourself into minimum wage jobs by dropping out of high school, but in America, super-rich is not even on a scale you or even I comprehend.
I'll tell you what though: If this passes, I am going to start seriously looking at ways to hide my personal and business income (legally). I know many others like me that will be doing the same if they haven't already.
Lastly, I don't understand how any politicians can support this bill with the cuts it will impose on Medicare. Sure, it's not a majorly significant cut, however it is a cut that directly effects the AARP crowd. Just the fact that they are the most consistently active voters in America should make the Dems fear cutting anything that could hurt them. And honestly, that is part of the reason I don't think it will turn into law.
I LOVE this idea! I'm glad someone actually might propose this. Since the majority of people in the United States make no where near this figure, it could stand a good chance of passing.
Since it doesn't affect me, who cares!!!!!
Tax the rich, them dirty rotten bastards don't deserve a dime, they never worked hard for it anyways. Gimmie gimmie gimmie,
When a piscating wizard floods every thread I can understand why people leave.
Class warfare. Rich against poor? Black vs White? Middle vs.. whoever?
Or which class warfare is it I don't want to see specifically? Could you state EXACTLY which two classes are in this war you speak of?
EDIT: You also appear to be using the wrong numbers. You state this now will be taxing the "upper middle class" because it's people making $280k plus.
Upper Middle class
"Generally, people in these professions have earned an advanced post-secondary education and a comfortable standard of living. In most cases household incomes can range from $150,000 to $250,000 a year or more." [1]
"TO MICHAEL!"
I LOVE this idea! I'm glad someone actually might propose this. Since the majority of people in the United States make no where near this figure, it could stand a good chance of passing.
Since it doesn't affect me, who cares!!!!!
Tax the rich, them dirty rotten bastards don't deserve a dime, they never worked hard for it anyways. Gimmie gimmie gimmie,
You shouldn't have this attitude. But judging by your avatar...
"TO MICHAEL!"
I LOVE this idea! I'm glad someone actually might propose this. Since the majority of people in the United States make no where near this figure, it could stand a good chance of passing.
Since it doesn't affect me, who cares!!!!!
Tax the rich, them dirty rotten bastards don't deserve a dime, they never worked hard for it anyways. Gimmie gimmie gimmie,
You shouldn't have this attitude. But judging by your avatar...
Edit : Wait a min, I don't have that attitude. It's called sarcasm. I think people should keep what they earn and taxing the rich to keep the poor in line is a crap way to run a government. Everyday that I meet people that think taxing the rich is the way to go, I can tell that their time in school was a little harder than most, that they have never worked for anything in their life, and have no respect for other peoples property.
Could you please relate to me how your tying my avatar into this argument, or do you not have a leg to stand on and just decide to attack me instead?
When a piscating wizard floods every thread I can understand why people leave.
The common theme in America is "we are all in this together", that's why you shouldn't have that "since it doesn't affect me, who cares!!!!" attitude as you stated above.
Everyone pitches in and everyone gets coverage, just like Medicare/Medicaid. Those who can afford to give more should, because even the smaller folks who make little are able to contribute by giving greedy business owners workers. Sick workers, no employees.
I think yours shows a certain amount of superficial quality, which seems to be in line with your "me me" attitude you typed up there. I hope you don't take that as a knock, but that's how I see it since you asked.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Oh, I see you edited this after my response.
I wasn't aware that was bad sarcasm. It seemed to go along with quite a few of your comments in the past on many issues. It certainly had that "me me" flavor you post a bit. I truly thought you were serious, lol.
Never mind the statement posted after your "sarcasm" then.
"TO MICHAEL!"
You shouldn't have this attitude. But judging by your avatar...
Why should I not have that attitude? Please I'm sure this will be amusing to hear it from you.
I think that the work that someone does should be their own and not for someone else. How does that relate to my avatar?
The common theme in America is "we are all in this together", that's why you shouldn't have that "since it doesn't affect me, who cares!!!!" attitude as you stated above.
Everyone pitches in and everyone gets coverage, just like Medicare/Medicaid. Those who can afford to give more should, because even the smaller folks who make little are able to contribute by giving greedy business owners workers. Sick workers, no employees.
A person's avatar speaks for itself about them and their personality. That much should be clear to anyone having one. I think yours shows a certain amount of superficial quality, which seems to be in line with your "me me" attitude you typed up there. I hope you don't take that as a knock, but that's how I see it since you asked.
So by that reasoning, you have no personality? Just checking.
We, being the people. Not the government. That's where you keep going wrong. The government is not for the people, it's supposed to be, but it's not. It's been taken over by lobbyist and unbridled politicians that only serve their own interests. While there may be a few people that are decent, the vast machine only serves to keep it's pockets lined in any way possible. People like you fail to realize this and keep trying to give the government more and more. Instead of trimming it back and reorganizing you continue to sign away more liberties. Instead of waiting and thinking, debating and considering all possiblities, you demand action. Look at the stimulus bill, about 7 months in and it's not turned around. So what would another month of debate been? Or did you ever think that they wanted to rush it though because it was laced with pork and other crap? The same with healthcare, your gonna demand action and get crap instead. Instead of fixing the reasons why healthcare sucks in the first place, you ask the government to step in.
I say, Let me keep my own money. Let me spend my own money. Let me be the one to contribute to society if I so choose. Let me take care of myself and plan for myself and die by myself. Then I'll have my freedom. Till then, you are not free nor ever will be if you keep giving up your freedoms to the government and buy into the attitude that you cannot take care of yourself so you need someone else to do it for you. I pay taxes right now, so why should I if I make more money, pay a bigger percentage of my wages? What incentive does that give me to make more money? It doesn't if you can't figure that out. It only shows me that if I try harder, the government will take more. You want to sit there and let the government take even more than what they already have. You have the attitude that since it doesn't affect you, it doesn't matter tax the rich to feed the poor. Are you one of those that really bought into the Robin Hood movie? Just ignore the hard working people that manage to get into that income bracket through hard work all their lives? Do you care about those people or since they make more money than you they deserve to pay more than you? A tax bracket system only creates social levels. You've bought into the class warfare and call anyone that doesn't selfish.
At least I'm honest in my endeavors. I like tits. I like google, surprise surprise, A picture of the google logo with tits. I'm sure you and others will use that to pick me apart, claim some wonderful logic that invalidates all my opinions and refutes everything I say. Or, you can stop attacking me, my avatar, and get at it with some reason laced debate.
When a piscating wizard floods every thread I can understand why people leave.
Oh, I see you edited this after my response.
I wasn't aware that was bad sarcasm. It seemed to go along with quite a few of your comments in the past on many issues. It certainly had that "me me" flavor you post a bit. I truly thought you were serious, lol.
Never mind the statement posted after your "sarcasm" then.
No, I was referring to the 'me' attitude that you seem to have. Others have money and you want it.
When a piscating wizard floods every thread I can understand why people leave.