1) Microtransactions enable us to have a larger development team Potentially more funding for a relatively easy time investment This is the biggest game wrecker for me, the devs will focus on this to make money, their main focus will not be for the customers who pay 15 bucks a month. You're funding to make more crap, but only crap you can buy. Oh sure they'll be some minor content updates but you can bet the best and brightest looking stuff will be here. The sole purpose of the MT is to make MORE money, how can games like EvE push out massive content with a standard fee only and Champions not? If they have to charge extra to continue developing a game they charge a premium fee for they are running the game wrong. Just rename it Hellgate: Champions right now and be done with it.
All marketed and subscription games are out to make money, but some are less up front about it. They can easily add an item mall with fluffy bunny hats that most of us won't care about and yet it will allow them to snag an extra bit of money from someone who obviously has too much if they're spending it on virtual property.
2) Microtransactions are mostly aesthetic (costume pieces, pets, etc.) Nothing new here really. You can purchase cosmetic or vanity items from the shop using real money. So, if you absolutely MUST HAVE the purple haircut of butchery, feel free to drop down $5 or w/e it costs. Does that make you better than anyone? No. Does it mean you have $5 and decided you wanted to blow it on a purely cosmetic item? Yes. OP? No. It can be argued your subscription fee should allow you regular updates of content, they want to gouge us for more money over time, make a stupid ex-pac and increase the banal level cap...their prime motive is to make money ASAP. I completely agree that if I'm paying $15 for a current MMO, I damn well better have access to everything in the game. Otherwise it better be something TRULY above and beyond for them to get my money. Personally, I won't be buying items from their mall, but I won't NOT play the game because I can't have the CRYPTIC-flavored cape. Now, if they're only charging me $10/month and it's a complete MMO, I may have more incentive to occasionally shop from the mall. And on another level, I may get pissed down the road that there's too much cool stuff in the shop and not enough in the game and just cancel because I don't feel like being mugged to enjoy my game.
3) If a microtransaction does have any sort of in game effect, then it can be also be earned in game.
As long as it's not top level gear, this is fine with me. Although I'd like to see a decrease from the standard $15/month charge with such an item mall. How many times have we been told one thing prior to release and then it's changed? Their foot is in the door with this one, all they have to do is make something attainable with a really shitty drop rate or a horrid grind and they've kept their word. They can make it so bad it takes you months to get, or ten seconds to buy. I'm not going to start off with a new game and a new company making that game, and believe the company is being less than truthful. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt the first time if they're reputable. My courtesy doesn't extend past getting burned by them even once however. Just my 2¢. Save it, you'll need the money for features. You presume too much.
1) Microtransactions enable us to have a larger development team Potentially more funding for a relatively easy time investment This is the biggest game wrecker for me, the devs will focus on this to make money, their main focus will not be for the customers who pay 15 bucks a month. You're funding to make more crap, but only crap you can buy. Oh sure they'll be some minor content updates but you can bet the best and brightest looking stuff will be here. The sole purpose of the MT is to make MORE money, how can games like EvE push out massive content with a standard fee only and Champions not? If they have to charge extra to continue developing a game they charge a premium fee for they are running the game wrong. Just rename it Hellgate: Champions right now and be done with it.
All marketed and subscription games are out to make money, but some are less up front about it. They can easily add an item mall with fluffy bunny hats that most of us won't care about and yet it will allow them to snag an extra bit of money from someone who obviously has too much if they're spending it on virtual property. So it's justified as long as they tell us they plan on gouging us? Still does not address the issue of them diverting time/energy into filling a MT store instead of working on the game. It's an unwritten agreement that on games we pay a premium subscription fee to play they work on the game as we go, using said funds. This is pure corp greed to combine both models and pray people are stupid enough to buy into it.
2) Microtransactions are mostly aesthetic (costume pieces, pets, etc.) Nothing new here really. You can purchase cosmetic or vanity items from the shop using real money. So, if you absolutely MUST HAVE the purple haircut of butchery, feel free to drop down $5 or w/e it costs. Does that make you better than anyone? No. Does it mean you have $5 and decided you wanted to blow it on a purely cosmetic item? Yes. OP? No. It can be argued your subscription fee should allow you regular updates of content, they want to gouge us for more money over time, make a stupid ex-pac and increase the banal level cap...their prime motive is to make money ASAP. I completely agree that if I'm paying $15 for a current MMO, I damn well better have access to everything in the game. Otherwise it better be something TRULY above and beyond for them to get my money. Personally, I won't be buying items from their mall, but I won't NOT play the game because I can't have the CRYPTIC-flavored cape. Now, if they're only charging me $10/month and it's a complete MMO, I may have more incentive to occasionally shop from the mall. And on another level, I may get pissed down the road that there's too much cool stuff in the shop and not enough in the game and just cancel because I don't feel like being mugged to enjoy my game. They're already mugging us to get in the door. Anything there after is considered Sexual Abuse of a Corpse in most states.
3) If a microtransaction does have any sort of in game effect, then it can be also be earned in game.
As long as it's not top level gear, this is fine with me. Although I'd like to see a decrease from the standard $15/month charge with such an item mall. How many times have we been told one thing prior to release and then it's changed? Their foot is in the door with this one, all they have to do is make something attainable with a really shitty drop rate or a horrid grind and they've kept their word. They can make it so bad it takes you months to get, or ten seconds to buy. I'm not going to start off with a new game and a new company making that game, and believe the company is being less than truthful. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt the first time if they're reputable. My courtesy doesn't extend past getting burned by them even once however. You can be willfully ignorant if you wish, I won't dissuade you fromt hat course. Just my 2¢. Save it, you'll need the money for features. You presume too much. Don't be banal, I have to presume to fill in the blanks we're on a forum. That was more along the lines of being smarmy, or smartass, if you must. Putting on airs is a bit much for this place.
The happy median would be the status quo - separate freebie+MT payment models for some and subscription payment models for others.
I don't know if that would work, green. The business models for MT games and P2P are so different they force constrictions on game design.
Mmmm, you may have missed my point. The market works just fine now with games using either a freebie+MT model or a subscription model - that's all I was saying. Though there are a few games that have developed a version to fit each model.
And it actually wouldn't be hard to develop two different versions of CO.
The regular subscription model could give players access to all frameworks, powers and costume pieces.
The freebie+MT version would give everyone access to a fith of the frameworks, all of the tier one powers in those, a third of the tier two and none of the tier three, and access to only one tenth of the costume pieces.
Anything else players want, they have to pay for.
They could throw in xp potions and whatever it is that players can craft into the store, and maybe a few items that give big buffs for an hour.
There wouldn't be any need for different game design - just mechanics to split players into different instances of each zone based on whether they're a subscriber or not.
Obviously they wouldn't allow characters to drop from the subscription model back to the freebie one (cos otherwise you'd just subscribe for one month to everything), but going the other way could work (minus the xp potions etc. that don't exist in the subscription version).
As a payment model, this wouldn't have offended anyone and would have let them plug into both markets.
"Gaaahhhhhh! I'll never play a game with RMT!!" Get over it people. If the game is great, we will play it. Changes/modifications/incorporation of/etc regarding subscriptions and RMT is the future. Whining about it or making empty threats about how you won't play the game is really pointless.
Thank you.
People always overreact when it comes to complaining about RMT. From what it sounds like, it's mostly aesthetic stuff that's being sold, it's not as if they're going to be selling free levelups and characters.
The counterpoint to this argument will always be: Well, I''m already paying $15 a month, why shouldn't I get all of the "cool" aesthetic stuff as part this subscription? In some ways, I have a hard time disagreeing.
The problem isn't RMT for me. I actually like games with a "cash shop" where you can buy items that enhance your character visually, with short-term buffs, etc. I have money but limited time, so being able to buy a 1.3 times exp potion is great.
The real issue is stacking RMT on top of a subscription. Everyone knows RMT is crucial to the success of a "free" game as it has no other revenue stream (other than potentially adds on the website and client load windows). RMT on top of a subscription blurs the line on what you are actually entitled to as a paying customer; you don't know what to expect (whether it is content, items, features, etc). If, and only if, their comment that EVERYTHING that can be purchased via RMT is available elsewhere in the game (or at least a comparable item/function) do I see this as acceptable.
Don't get me wrong - services such as name changes, server transfers, etc I'm fine with paying more for as these are non-standard compontents of utilizing the service.
Well, look at it this way... at least they didn't release the game, get people hooked, and THEN open up a cash shop .
Developing two different games, not so sure they'd do that.
It wouldn't be developing two different games (see my previous post) and it would make a hell of a lot more sense - and money - than what they're currently trying to do.
1) Microtransactions enable us to have a larger development team Potentially more funding for a relatively easy time investment This is the biggest game wrecker for me, the devs will focus on this to make money, their main focus will not be for the customers who pay 15 bucks a month. You're funding to make more crap, but only crap you can buy. Oh sure they'll be some minor content updates but you can bet the best and brightest looking stuff will be here. The sole purpose of the MT is to make MORE money, how can games like EvE push out massive content with a standard fee only and Champions not? If they have to charge extra to continue developing a game they charge a premium fee for they are running the game wrong. Just rename it Hellgate: Champions right now and be done with it.
All marketed and subscription games are out to make money, but some are less up front about it. They can easily add an item mall with fluffy bunny hats that most of us won't care about and yet it will allow them to snag an extra bit of money from someone who obviously has too much if they're spending it on virtual property. So it's justified as long as they tell us they plan on gouging us? Still does not address the issue of them diverting time/energy into filling a MT store instead of working on the game. It's an unwritten agreement that on games we pay a premium subscription fee to play they work on the game as we go, using said funds. This is pure corp greed to combine both models and pray people are stupid enough to buy into it.
2) Microtransactions are mostly aesthetic (costume pieces, pets, etc.) Nothing new here really. You can purchase cosmetic or vanity items from the shop using real money. So, if you absolutely MUST HAVE the purple haircut of butchery, feel free to drop down $5 or w/e it costs. Does that make you better than anyone? No. Does it mean you have $5 and decided you wanted to blow it on a purely cosmetic item? Yes. OP? No. It can be argued your subscription fee should allow you regular updates of content, they want to gouge us for more money over time, make a stupid ex-pac and increase the banal level cap...their prime motive is to make money ASAP. I completely agree that if I'm paying $15 for a current MMO, I damn well better have access to everything in the game. Otherwise it better be something TRULY above and beyond for them to get my money. Personally, I won't be buying items from their mall, but I won't NOT play the game because I can't have the CRYPTIC-flavored cape. Now, if they're only charging me $10/month and it's a complete MMO, I may have more incentive to occasionally shop from the mall. And on another level, I may get pissed down the road that there's too much cool stuff in the shop and not enough in the game and just cancel because I don't feel like being mugged to enjoy my game. They're already mugging us to get in the door. Anything there after is considered Sexual Abuse of a Corpse in most states.
3) If a microtransaction does have any sort of in game effect, then it can be also be earned in game.
As long as it's not top level gear, this is fine with me. Although I'd like to see a decrease from the standard $15/month charge with such an item mall. How many times have we been told one thing prior to release and then it's changed? Their foot is in the door with this one, all they have to do is make something attainable with a really shitty drop rate or a horrid grind and they've kept their word. They can make it so bad it takes you months to get, or ten seconds to buy. I'm not going to start off with a new game and a new company making that game, and believe the company is being less than truthful. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt the first time if they're reputable. My courtesy doesn't extend past getting burned by them even once however. You can be willfully ignorant if you wish, I won't dissuade you fromt hat course. Just my 2¢. Save it, you'll need the money for features. You presume too much. Don't be banal, I have to presume to fill in the blanks we're on a forum. That was more along the lines of being smarmy, or smartass, if you must. Putting on airs is a bit much for this place.
"Gaaahhhhhh! I'll never play a game with RMT!!" Get over it people. If the game is great, we will play it. Changes/modifications/incorporation of/etc regarding subscriptions and RMT is the future. Whining about it or making empty threats about how you won't play the game is really pointless.
Thank you.
People always overreact when it comes to complaining about RMT. From what it sounds like, it's mostly aesthetic stuff that's being sold, it's not as if they're going to be selling free levelups and characters.
...and even if they do offer leveling, so what? It's allowing players to play the game in the way that they want to. Most MMO players who weren't in on a game at launch have had to powerlevel a character to max level to join their friends anyhow. They rush through the content, skipping as much of it as possible. If people want to be max level, let them. If people want to level, but want a little extra so they can keep up with their friends who are able to play more frequently, let them. I see no harm in this. Hardcore players most vocally criticize this business model. But as a hardcore player, it affects you the least because by your own admission you would never use those services. So either play this game, or not. The choice is yours. Would RMT keep you from having fun while playing? If so, you'll probably be giving up MMOs soon enough, and quite possibly gaming in general.
Cryptic thanks you in advance for your sheep-like qualities. And trust me, you're already "that guy." It has nothing to do with high rolling in a video game, but still.
Cryptic thanks you in advance for your sheep-like qualities. And trust me, you're already "that guy." It has nothing to do with high rolling in a video game, but still.
im not going to try and waste my time with some moral video game crusade...its a game, 5 bucks here or there isnt going to break the bank.
im still running through with what the game has to offer, it looks fun.
people can complain all they want in these forums...doesnt change a thing :l
That's indeed true. Us forum posters are just a vocal minority, nothing more. Everyone is curious to see how far the casual gamers are willing to adopt this new form of subscription method, including future developers.
In my opinion, that particular model is a sign of lesser quality. Or at least, history so far has shown that to be true. I had high hopes for this game, but alas, they seem more eager to target the impulsive buyer than the long term subscriber. Something that unfortunately bodes badly about the long term appeal of this "MMO".
Are they similiar to the store now offered in coh/v? If so very cool. I bought everyone. Was it a total of 3 in the 5 years its been out? For a whole 10 bucks? Who cares anyway. The game is very playable without the pretty stuff but really, who cares. I doubt there going to be selling levels or anything to make the game unbalanced verses the people who dont buy the stuff. Unless your putting the millions of dollars into a project expecting the return on investment expected before your audience runs to check out the next similiar product... Ah, go ahead, complain. who cares. I will get the game play it and if I dont like it, not. Like someone said earlier. Over reacting anyone?
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
Are they similiar to the store now offered in coh/v? If so very cool.
The answer is no.
Unlike CoX which had it's few small, very cheap booster packs as an alternative to regular paid expansions and which gave players regular free content updates, CO appears set to charge players for regular paid expansions and have a proper shopping mall.
Now that this microtransaction system is confirmed, I wonder what part this is playing in their problems with Microsoft. How would a whole cryptic buck system work within the rigid point system already in place on the 260.
I didn't know that vanity items or fluff items as some say are " game changing". That is news to me!
Oh come on SV.
You post all the promotional stuff and try to paint the game in a good light. That's fair enough. But now you're sinking to Cryptic's level by being dishonest. If that's the only way you can sell your product, how good can it really be?
I didn't know that vanity items or fluff items as some say are " game changing". That is news to me!
Oh come on SV.
You post all the promotional stuff and try to paint the game in a good light. That's fair enough. But now you're sinking to Cryptic's level by being dishonest. If that's the only way you can sell your product, how good can it really be?
Ya know I am not 100% for microtransactions and if it were up to me I would just do the subscription model. I just think alot of what some people say are just blown way out of proportion. There is just no way possible that vanity items affect gameplay. The most important aspect of the game is gameplay so if nothing is affecting it by buying something because someone wants to look extra nice then so be it. I'll only be interested in extra character slots and more storage if that is available. Everything I do will be earned through gameplay. People just need to stop making a mountain out of a mole hill so to speak.
everyone needs to look at it like this. im pretty sure everyone at some point in their life has gone to wal-mart or some similar store and gone through the checkout line. now when you get there theres all this random crap and candy there you can buy. so think of the MT as all that random stuff at the check out line when youre leaving the store. you can either buy the 4 pack of reeces peanut butter cups and a pepsi or coke like i do sometimes or you dont. i think thats a pretty civil way to look at cryptics model here.
My wife and I will not be playing CO because of this decision.
Longer response:
My wife and I have been looking at this game and Aion because our son is old enough and started doing his own thing now and we want to get back into MMO's and have time to do so in the evenings. I know these are two different games, but we are looking for a new MMO community to be part of and are able to adapt to different MMO worlds, as we all are.
I see a lot of analogies, excuses and rationalizations here, but this business model simply shows that cryptic is greedy. It is a poor decision and anyone who accepts it is paving the way for other companies to squeeze every ounce of money out of the customer base as it can.
Many companies are watching us! We need to stand firm and let these companies understand that we will pay a subscription fee and that is it. "Microtransaction" is just another greasy salesman term used on us to make milking us out of our cash easier to accept.
My wife and I are going to pre-order Aion even though we would enjoy CO much, much more. We both are disappointed by Cryptics decision but simply cannot accept caving in to company greed.
Comments
so...
My eyes, they burn.
I hope they don't sell access to different font colors for cryptic bucks.
I was trying to get through the whole rainbow as sort of visual warning.
I don't know if that would work, green. The business models for MT games and P2P are so different they force constrictions on game design.
Mmmm, you may have missed my point. The market works just fine now with games using either a freebie+MT model or a subscription model - that's all I was saying. Though there are a few games that have developed a version to fit each model.
And it actually wouldn't be hard to develop two different versions of CO.
The regular subscription model could give players access to all frameworks, powers and costume pieces.
The freebie+MT version would give everyone access to a fith of the frameworks, all of the tier one powers in those, a third of the tier two and none of the tier three, and access to only one tenth of the costume pieces.
Anything else players want, they have to pay for.
They could throw in xp potions and whatever it is that players can craft into the store, and maybe a few items that give big buffs for an hour.
There wouldn't be any need for different game design - just mechanics to split players into different instances of each zone based on whether they're a subscriber or not.
Obviously they wouldn't allow characters to drop from the subscription model back to the freebie one (cos otherwise you'd just subscribe for one month to everything), but going the other way could work (minus the xp potions etc. that don't exist in the subscription version).
As a payment model, this wouldn't have offended anyone and would have let them plug into both markets.
Developing two different games, not so sure they'd do that.
Thank you.
People always overreact when it comes to complaining about RMT. From what it sounds like, it's mostly aesthetic stuff that's being sold, it's not as if they're going to be selling free levelups and characters.
The counterpoint to this argument will always be: Well, I''m already paying $15 a month, why shouldn't I get all of the "cool" aesthetic stuff as part this subscription? In some ways, I have a hard time disagreeing.
The problem isn't RMT for me. I actually like games with a "cash shop" where you can buy items that enhance your character visually, with short-term buffs, etc. I have money but limited time, so being able to buy a 1.3 times exp potion is great.
The real issue is stacking RMT on top of a subscription. Everyone knows RMT is crucial to the success of a "free" game as it has no other revenue stream (other than potentially adds on the website and client load windows). RMT on top of a subscription blurs the line on what you are actually entitled to as a paying customer; you don't know what to expect (whether it is content, items, features, etc). If, and only if, their comment that EVERYTHING that can be purchased via RMT is available elsewhere in the game (or at least a comparable item/function) do I see this as acceptable.
Don't get me wrong - services such as name changes, server transfers, etc I'm fine with paying more for as these are non-standard compontents of utilizing the service.
Well, look at it this way... at least they didn't release the game, get people hooked, and THEN open up a cash shop
.
It wouldn't be developing two different games (see my previous post) and it would make a hell of a lot more sense - and money - than what they're currently trying to do.
1) I agree, you're right.
2) Ok
3) Thanks
4) w/e
so...
Thank you.
People always overreact when it comes to complaining about RMT. From what it sounds like, it's mostly aesthetic stuff that's being sold, it's not as if they're going to be selling free levelups and characters.
...and even if they do offer leveling, so what? It's allowing players to play the game in the way that they want to. Most MMO players who weren't in on a game at launch have had to powerlevel a character to max level to join their friends anyhow. They rush through the content, skipping as much of it as possible. If people want to be max level, let them. If people want to level, but want a little extra so they can keep up with their friends who are able to play more frequently, let them. I see no harm in this. Hardcore players most vocally criticize this business model. But as a hardcore player, it affects you the least because by your own admission you would never use those services. So either play this game, or not. The choice is yours. Would RMT keep you from having fun while playing? If so, you'll probably be giving up MMOs soon enough, and quite possibly gaming in general.
(signature blocked)
The MT store is not allowing the players to play the game the way they want, it's allowing them to make money the way they want.
I dont mind cutting back on a few happy meals...ill just put it towards that FOTM item everyone bitches about...just to be that guy
Cryptic thanks you in advance for your sheep-like qualities. And trust me, you're already "that guy." It has nothing to do with high rolling in a video game, but still.
im not going to try and waste my time with some moral video game crusade...its a game, 5 bucks here or there isnt going to break the bank.
im still running through with what the game has to offer, it looks fun.
people can complain all they want in these forums...doesnt change a thing :l
Yeah, discourse is hard and stuff.
That's indeed true. Us forum posters are just a vocal minority, nothing more. Everyone is curious to see how far the casual gamers are willing to adopt this new form of subscription method, including future developers.
In my opinion, that particular model is a sign of lesser quality. Or at least, history so far has shown that to be true. I had high hopes for this game, but alas, they seem more eager to target the impulsive buyer than the long term subscriber. Something that unfortunately bodes badly about the long term appeal of this "MMO".
its all about the jet boots man...i just want my jet boots
Are they similiar to the store now offered in coh/v? If so very cool. I bought everyone. Was it a total of 3 in the 5 years its been out? For a whole 10 bucks? Who cares anyway. The game is very playable without the pretty stuff but really, who cares. I doubt there going to be selling levels or anything to make the game unbalanced verses the people who dont buy the stuff. Unless your putting the millions of dollars into a project expecting the return on investment expected before your audience runs to check out the next similiar product... Ah, go ahead, complain. who cares. I will get the game play it and if I dont like it, not. Like someone said earlier. Over reacting anyone?
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
The answer is no.
Unlike CoX which had it's few small, very cheap booster packs as an alternative to regular paid expansions and which gave players regular free content updates, CO appears set to charge players for regular paid expansions and have a proper shopping mall.
I didn't know that vanity items or fluff items as some say are " game changing". That is news to me!
Add me to the list of those no longer interested.
Now that this microtransaction system is confirmed, I wonder what part this is playing in their problems with Microsoft. How would a whole cryptic buck system work within the rigid point system already in place on the 260.
Oh come on SV.
You post all the promotional stuff and try to paint the game in a good light. That's fair enough. But now you're sinking to Cryptic's level by being dishonest. If that's the only way you can sell your product, how good can it really be?
Oh come on SV.
You post all the promotional stuff and try to paint the game in a good light. That's fair enough. But now you're sinking to Cryptic's level by being dishonest. If that's the only way you can sell your product, how good can it really be?
Ya know I am not 100% for microtransactions and if it were up to me I would just do the subscription model. I just think alot of what some people say are just blown way out of proportion. There is just no way possible that vanity items affect gameplay. The most important aspect of the game is gameplay so if nothing is affecting it by buying something because someone wants to look extra nice then so be it. I'll only be interested in extra character slots and more storage if that is available. Everything I do will be earned through gameplay. People just need to stop making a mountain out of a mole hill so to speak.
everyone needs to look at it like this. im pretty sure everyone at some point in their life has gone to wal-mart or some similar store and gone through the checkout line. now when you get there theres all this random crap and candy there you can buy. so think of the MT as all that random stuff at the check out line when youre leaving the store. you can either buy the 4 pack of reeces peanut butter cups and a pepsi or coke like i do sometimes or you dont. i think thats a pretty civil way to look at cryptics model here.
Short response:
My wife and I will not be playing CO because of this decision.
Longer response:
My wife and I have been looking at this game and Aion because our son is old enough and started doing his own thing now and we want to get back into MMO's and have time to do so in the evenings. I know these are two different games, but we are looking for a new MMO community to be part of and are able to adapt to different MMO worlds, as we all are.
I see a lot of analogies, excuses and rationalizations here, but this business model simply shows that cryptic is greedy. It is a poor decision and anyone who accepts it is paving the way for other companies to squeeze every ounce of money out of the customer base as it can.
Many companies are watching us! We need to stand firm and let these companies understand that we will pay a subscription fee and that is it. "Microtransaction" is just another greasy salesman term used on us to make milking us out of our cash easier to accept.
My wife and I are going to pre-order Aion even though we would enjoy CO much, much more. We both are disappointed by Cryptics decision but simply cannot accept caving in to company greed.