I would like to thank you first for being open and frank about the situation. Although unfortunate it had to be during such a bad time of events. Dialog such as this does help to reduce the negativity. Unfortunately due to the history of other companies of using spins or being silent of problems causes a negative cycle to occur (ie: Sigil and Perpetual Entertainment... and *cough* SOE). So keep it up.
The question I have is why not take a Phased Approach for Launching the game?
Granted the game would not be fully functionally complete, for example only one world can be visited, combat only, or crafting to be added in later, etc. The cost for players would be low as well since the game is limited. BUT at least there will be some income generated, as well as some interest, which could be used for user feedback. Some income is better than none. Although this may tarnish the game (not fully completed, paying for beta, etc), I think it is safe to say that the game has already been tarnished due to the events going on.
A staged release wouldn't work for the game as currently designed. There are systems that run throughout the entire experience that aren't finished. If we get funding but less than it would take to complete the entire project, that's certainly something we'd consider.
Originally posted by AngeluxMedia Easy there tiger... Shane has taken it upon himself to be here and answer our questions... which is 1,000 times more than anything we've gotten from anyone else. That act alone should be reflected with our respect. Whether or not you like and/or believe any answers you get, just remember the fact that you're getting them at all.
Let's not get carried away. If the answers are false (and I'm not saying that they are), then that's worse than no answer at all. If someone went out of his way to lie to me, I wouldn't thank him for his time.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Please keep it civil and I'll continue to answer your questions.
You said:
Q: " My question, have you or any staff you know of been approached by other members of CME/Firesky/Cash sink studios, offering a financial contract of any type concerning MMOGULs?"
Answer: A: Yes; B: No; C: I don't know
Please select from the above.
No. Not to my knowledge. One of you said you had an email offering CME employees a membership but I've never heard of or seen such an email. Again, wouldn't really care if he did though.
If you don't believe me about the studios you don't believe me. Shrug.
Your beef with Gary just isn't something I'm going to get dragged into. I've stated my opinion and you can take it or leave it.
Easy there tiger... Shane has taken it upon himself to be here and answer our questions... which is 1,000 times more than anything we've gotten from anyone else. That act alone should be reflected with our respect. Whether or not you like and/or believe any answers you get, just remember the fact that you're getting them at all.
This may very well be the community's one-and-only chance to get answers other than "No Comment" and "Company Line." Why try to incite rage on a guy who's doing the right thing by giving us that opportunity?
Ask what you will, but at least have the courtesy to do so with some civility. Instead of charging with accusational comments like "...setting up a phoney divorce with my wife..." why not be less troll-like and just ask: "I've heard that Gary is trying to shift funds to his wife and then divorce her to protect his share of money from being sued... Shane, you know Gary, what do you know about it?" ...And, don't expect Shane to know everything about everyone... If Gary's trying to do something illegal, I don't think he'd be telling people about it, so why badger anyone but Gary for answers about Gary's actions?
I understand what you're saying and I do appreciate he's here. However I only got one straight answer, he didn't answer the other three. I said nothing about Gary Whiting until I was labeled a despicable person and he went on to paint a ridiculous picture of Gary as a kind hearted person. I'm not Badgering him about anything, he came here and offered to answer my questions. I told him an "I don't know" is fine as I don't expect him to know everything. Instead I get a load of bologne that makes no sense and a holier than thou speech concerning the things Gary Whiting has done for humanity and I'm vilified as a despicable human being!
So far he hasn't told us anything we don't already know, then offers a bologne visit to CME tomorrow to show how they are actually holding it together pretty well. Then goes on to state you can't come in Monday as half the staff will have quit by then! You think he isn't here answering questions without the OK from his boss? Until I see some real straight answers I think he's playing us for saps. I was calm and very polite when this started last year and have been very calm and polite for the last six months but nothing from CME. Then the day after his boss has his picture posted here the president who had a one post history decides to do a Q&A?
Sorry man he said "Bring it", well I "Brought it"
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
You're asking about the rumored "Stargate Battles." I have to be a little corporate on this one. My apologies in advance, but that's the way it has to be for now. So here's the answer I put in the interview JStrike sent me when he asked the same question:
Our license for Stargate covers more than just Worlds, and we absolutely have explored other games that take place in the SG universe. I honestly can’t say more than that at this point until we know what kind of funding we have to work with, but Stargate: Worlds—the fully-featured MMO that the team has spent years building—is still our absolute number one long-term objective.
There are a few critical positions we need to allow us to put everyone back on SGW, but in the meantime there are people working on it and it is by far our largest objective.
As the President of CME, I’m sure you aware that various Sr. Management & Officers of CME spent time and effort to put MMOGULS back in place (in addition to all the art, web & marketing efforts) after the first executive team left? In addition, Whiting owns MMOGULS, but with so much effort from CME employees given to MMOGULS, are you not concerned that revenue flows directly to Whiting’s pockets?
Is MMOGULS = iSNAP?
Were all of CME’s games to appear on MMOGUL’s social networking portal?
Initially, CME raised 55 Million. However, they continued to raise funds and have investors through the offices of CME throughout most of 2008. How much money did CME really raise?
If CME did get their 8 Million (which is looking very unlikely) how much of that goes to past debts and how much to future development?
What is the status on the lawsuits? If some people have judgments against whiting personally, are they getting funds employees could be getting?
Will other games be developed with what is left of the 8 Million?
How much time and money is needed to finish SGW?
What is Stargate Battles?
Is CME still making iPhone applications?
When the money ran out, why did CME keep all the overhead from the other studios? Why didn’t they repurpose those employees onto SGW to get it complete and out the door?
You're asking about the rumored "Stargate Battles." I have to be a little corporate on this one. My apologies in advance, but that's the way it has to be for now. So here's the answer I put in the interview JStrike sent me when he asked the same question:
Our license for Stargate covers more than just Worlds, and we absolutely have explored other games that take place in the SG universe. I honestly can’t say more than that at this point until we know what kind of funding we have to work with, but Stargate: Worlds—the fully-featured MMO that the team has spent years building—is still our absolute number one long-term objective.
There are a few critical positions we need to allow us to put everyone back on SGW, but in the meantime there are people working on it and it is by far our largest objective.
Thanks,
Shane
Not really Kyrie, he just answered the Stargate Battles one, even thought he quoted two different questions that have nothing to do with the answer given, your point still stands he skipped the rest of the questions.
I just answered all those questions and more in the JStrike interview. Not sure where he's posting it--here or on the official SGW forums. If I didn't give a good enough answer to your specific questions in that interview just hit me up again and I'll try to get to them this evening.
Could you clarify the corporate structure of the various entities? In particular, there is CME and CMG (which both appear to be full corporations), and it appears that Firesky (an LLC) is under CMG. Where are the studios, and in particular, which one is developing SGW? Which holds the SG IP license? Is there a reason for the complexity?
The current documentation available from the state of AZ for CME shows that Gary Whiting is the only member of the board of directors. Is this accurate?
There's been a lot of rumor and speculation around the current status of the SGW code. Is the game in a condition that it can be started and played internally?
You're asking about the rumored "Stargate Battles." I have to be a little corporate on this one. My apologies in advance, but that's the way it has to be for now. So here's the answer I put in the interview JStrike sent me when he asked the same question:
Our license for Stargate covers more than just Worlds, and we absolutely have explored other games that take place in the SG universe. I honestly can’t say more than that at this point until we know what kind of funding we have to work with, but Stargate: Worlds—the fully-featured MMO that the team has spent years building—is still our absolute number one long-term objective.
There are a few critical positions we need to allow us to put everyone back on SGW, but in the meantime there are people working on it and it is by far our largest objective.
Thanks,
Shane
Shane,
Thanks for the politically correct response. If I had to interpret your response, it would go something like this:
"If we were play-testing SGW, I would scream from the highest mountain and tell you how cool the zone/planet is and even post screen shots, but since we are not, I cannot answer you directly. "
Were you going to answer my other questions, or what?
I believe the answers to all your questions are in the JStrike interview. Some I can't or won't answer directly, as I said before, and some I just don't know. I realize that's not probably not good enough for you, but I feel I've done my part at this point and need to move on to the SGW forums and the fans there. I'll check in here now and then though, and if there's a reasonable question I can answer, I'll do so.
I would also ask you to consider that just because you don't *like* an answer doesn't *always* make it wrong.
I would also ask that you look at this from my point of view for just a moment. I have little to gain from winning you over, and a lot of time and stress to waste in trying. I *am* trying, however, because I'd like to have a positive community where we can have constructive dialogue / criticism on our business and our games without it turning into personal attacks.
Kyrie, I believe the answers to all your questions are in the JStrike interview. Some I can't or won't answer directly, as I said before, and some I just don't know. I realize that's not probably not good enough for you, but I feel I've done my part at this point and need to move on to the SGW forums and the fans there. I'll check in here now and then though, and if there's a reasonable question I can answer, I'll do so. I would also ask you to consider that just because you don't *like* an answer doesn't *always* make it wrong. I would also ask that you look at this from my point of view for just a moment. I have little to gain from winning you over, and a lot of time and stress to waste in trying. I *am* trying, however, because I'd like to have a positive community where we can have constructive dialogue / criticism on our business and our games without it turning into personal attacks. Have a good weekend. Shane
What is to dislike, you answered diddlysquat. Feeling a little deflated seeing how I was extended an office visit and then totally ignored on the questions. What a shame too, because I had another set equally as challenging.
I admit, my questions are hard-hitting and by not answering them Shane, you have answered them.
Thanks for trying and enjoy your time away from the office!
Kyrie, I believe the answers to all your questions are in the JStrike interview. Some I can't or won't answer directly, as I said before, and some I just don't know. I realize that's not probably not good enough for you, but I feel I've done my part at this point and need to move on to the SGW forums and the fans there. I'll check in here now and then though, and if there's a reasonable question I can answer, I'll do so. I would also ask you to consider that just because you don't *like* an answer doesn't *always* make it wrong. I would also ask that you look at this from my point of view for just a moment. I have little to gain from winning you over, and a lot of time and stress to waste in trying. I *am* trying, however, because I'd like to have a positive community where we can have constructive dialogue / criticism on our business and our games without it turning into personal attacks. Have a good weekend. Shane
Typical, comes in here and offers to answer questions and the only one he really shed any light on was the Big world/Unreal 3 question. The rest was confirming information we already had. As for his answer, Kyrie didn't say it was wrong he said your reply wasn't sufficient to be consider an answer to the question. As in most tough questions you were both ambigious and vague at the same time, whilst towing the "Team Whiting" line.
You came here to give us the information your boss wanted us to have before you leave next week, FACT! This was your last act to secure your back wages no doubt before you leave. " if there's a reasonable question I can answer, I'll do so.", translation, "Softball please!". If CME wanted a softball interview it could have done one with MMORPG.com officialy and set out the answers CME wanted asked. However CME prefered to keep a media blackout and say nothing for 8 months or more and now Gary Whiting wants some softball Q&A? Not enough time left before shutdown to arrange an interview with any respected site so try to haul in Kyrie on 1 days notice and do a softball Q&A because you're all leaving next week and you'll be keeping up appearances for MGM on that day?
Many probably think I'm wrong to address you in the fashion I am. Perhaps they're right and I'm making a fool of myself. However after being kept in the dark since last year and being given nothing but sanitised media sound bites or flat out bologne, I find what you're doing (under orders from your boss) a massive insult. Whiting thinks he can have you waltz in here now 1 day before August 1st and give some vague, ambigious and softball Q&A?
I don't blame you yourself Shane as you're doing what you have to before leaving the company, you don't want a black mark on your name or to lose your wages owed. However what Gary Whiting is doing is just "Too little, too late" which should be the mantra of all companies Whiting has been chairman of!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
My understanding is that Big World didn't meet the client requirements of some members of the team back then. I wasn't around so I don't know first-hand. The solution was to blend the Unreal front-end with the Big World back-end. Shane
Thanks for your answer, Shane.
So, if I am correct, that is to say that SGW is making use of BigWorld, as a back-end server engine solution, and Unreal engine as a front-end graphic engine solution (since I don't see how it could be possible to mix BigWorld with Unreal for the client/graphics part and even if it could be possible, I would not see the point). Do you confirm BigWorld being the netcode solution and Unreal engine being the graphics engine solution behind SGW?
Another question: did CME go for a BigWorld license and then for an Unreal license, or did the idea to combine BigWorld to Unreal come from the beginning?
I can answer that one pix, they got Big world first then nine months later they got Unreal 3 in 2007. I also agree that combining the two engines is costly and difficult compared to just using Big World, another bad decision that the average forum goer could point out but the 200 staff at CME/Firesky/Cash sink studios including upper managment were apparently oblivious to!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Anyone who has done this programing knows that it was an investor decision rather than a programing decision.
They thought they could recover more than the licensing fees and make profits by telling investors (who most likely have very little programing experience) something like " and we have licenses for 2 massive and modern gaming engines".
Anyone who has done this programing knows that it was an investor decision rather than a programing decision. They thought they could recover more than the licensing fees and make profits by telling investors (who most likely have very little programing experience) something like " and we have licenses for 2 massive and modern gaming engines". It didn't work though.
If the investors get to decide of how the developers should make the game its not going to be good.
Anyone who has done this programing knows that it was an investor "collecting" decision rather than a programing decision.
They thought they could recover more than the licensing fees and make profits by telling investors (who most likely have very little programing experience) something like " and we have licenses for 2 massive and modern gaming engines".
It didn't work though.
If the investors get to decide of how the developers should make the game its not going to be good.
Not really the investors making the decisions on how to program, more of a way to pitch it to investors. A plan to make the project look bigger as a method to collect more investors. I should have worded it better.
I can answer that one pix, they got Big world first then nine months later they got Unreal 3 in 2007. I also agree that combining the two engines is costly and difficult compared to just using Big World, another bad decision that the average forum goer could point out but the 200 staff at CME/Firesky/Cash sink studios including upper managment were apparently oblivious to!
Thanks for the info, Agricola. So, in that case, something just doesn't match, you are correct... You don't set up a team to develop an AAA MMORPG title using a famous license, buy a server engine, wait 9 months and then buy a graphics engine to develop your product. Unreal engine is supposed to be the SDK used by developers on the client side, and the client is supposed to be developed ahead of the server.
If I were an investor of SGW, I believe I would wonder about this, to make sure my money was well spent, when and what for...
But maybe Shane could bring some more light on this point? Why go for a BigWorld server engine 9 months before going for the graphics game engine license?
I could be totally off base, but bringing Unreal on 9 months later maybe had something to do with the fact they went through three technology directors during the course of developing SGW?
Perchance during one of the change in commands, they deemed Bigword's visuals crap or it was just not working with their skillsets? In addition, they were all licensed using Maya and then somewhere down the line switch to Unreal.
Both would have been very expensive mistakes to make, wasting more investor funds on incompetence.
I'll repeat what I said earlier about the Big World / Unreal issue. My understanding is that the team at the time did not find Big World's graphics suitable for the vision the art leads had for SGW. That would take a while to find out, take a bit more time to figure out if they could alter the code themselves, and then when they couldn't to find another solution (Unreal as the front end), then to negotiate the license for the new client-side engine.
I wasn't here at the time, but that's my understanding of the events that led to the merger of those two technologies.
A staged release wouldn't work for the game as currently designed. There are systems that run throughout the entire experience that aren't finished. If we get funding but less than it would take to complete the entire project, that's certainly something we'd consider. Shane
Thanks for taking the time to answer the question.
Which I am surprised, most developers never answer it.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
FiringSquad:How hard will it be to integrate the Unreal Engine with Big World's server technology?
Chris Bernert: Unreal said … Really difficult, many have tried, none have succeeded. BigWorld said … Impossible, you are mad. It is an incredibly difficult task and probably one of our largest technical challenges.
So, it seems that the issue was mainly on the technical side and that's probably why CME failed. What is quite surprising is that the team had to go for R&D (working on the engines, to make them play nice together), rather than to develop THE PRODUCT. Well that seems to indicate somebody did not make his job properly, OR that, much on the contrary... somebody did it a bit too well, but in that case, that would indicate the initial scheme was indeed to screw the many investors first and foremost... : humm, you're not supposed to spend hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of bucks in licensing technologies prior to conducting any serious technical research to make sure these engines will fit with your needs and work quite well together, aren't you? Unless there IS a valid reason that absolutely convinces you that it's a wise move not to indulge in years and years of R&D in building your own engine from the ground up, and you'd be much more comfortable in licencing 3rd Party techs that cannot but achieve the work in less time, and at much less risk, of course. Probably something to consider if other funds are injected for the development of SGW...
Comments
A staged release wouldn't work for the game as currently designed. There are systems that run throughout the entire experience that aren't finished. If we get funding but less than it would take to complete the entire project, that's certainly something we'd consider.
Shane
Let's not get carried away. If the answers are false (and I'm not saying that they are), then that's worse than no answer at all. If someone went out of his way to lie to me, I wouldn't thank him for his time.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Agricola,
Please keep it civil and I'll continue to answer your questions.
You said:
Q: " My question, have you or any staff you know of been approached by other members of CME/Firesky/Cash sink studios, offering a financial contract of any type concerning MMOGULs?"
Answer: A: Yes; B: No; C: I don't know
Please select from the above.
No. Not to my knowledge. One of you said you had an email offering CME employees a membership but I've never heard of or seen such an email. Again, wouldn't really care if he did though.
If you don't believe me about the studios you don't believe me. Shrug.
Your beef with Gary just isn't something I'm going to get dragged into. I've stated my opinion and you can take it or leave it.
Cheers,
Shane
Easy there tiger... Shane has taken it upon himself to be here and answer our questions... which is 1,000 times more than anything we've gotten from anyone else. That act alone should be reflected with our respect. Whether or not you like and/or believe any answers you get, just remember the fact that you're getting them at all.
This may very well be the community's one-and-only chance to get answers other than "No Comment" and "Company Line." Why try to incite rage on a guy who's doing the right thing by giving us that opportunity?
Ask what you will, but at least have the courtesy to do so with some civility. Instead of charging with accusational comments like "...setting up a phoney divorce with my wife..." why not be less troll-like and just ask: "I've heard that Gary is trying to shift funds to his wife and then divorce her to protect his share of money from being sued... Shane, you know Gary, what do you know about it?" ...And, don't expect Shane to know everything about everyone... If Gary's trying to do something illegal, I don't think he'd be telling people about it, so why badger anyone but Gary for answers about Gary's actions?
I understand what you're saying and I do appreciate he's here. However I only got one straight answer, he didn't answer the other three. I said nothing about Gary Whiting until I was labeled a despicable person and he went on to paint a ridiculous picture of Gary as a kind hearted person. I'm not Badgering him about anything, he came here and offered to answer my questions. I told him an "I don't know" is fine as I don't expect him to know everything. Instead I get a load of bologne that makes no sense and a holier than thou speech concerning the things Gary Whiting has done for humanity and I'm vilified as a despicable human being!
So far he hasn't told us anything we don't already know, then offers a bologne visit to CME tomorrow to show how they are actually holding it together pretty well. Then goes on to state you can't come in Monday as half the staff will have quit by then! You think he isn't here answering questions without the OK from his boss? Until I see some real straight answers I think he's playing us for saps. I was calm and very polite when this started last year and have been very calm and polite for the last six months but nothing from CME. Then the day after his boss has his picture posted here the president who had a one post history decides to do a Q&A?
Sorry man he said "Bring it", well I "Brought it"
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Posting in-between rounds, I will check back later. I hope that you have time to get to my questions Shane.
Thanks again for coming to these forums and shedding some light in the darkness. Much appreciated.
Hi Kyrie,
You're asking about the rumored "Stargate Battles." I have to be a little corporate on this one. My apologies in advance, but that's the way it has to be for now. So here's the answer I put in the interview JStrike sent me when he asked the same question:
Our license for Stargate covers more than just Worlds, and we absolutely have explored other games that take place in the SG universe. I honestly can’t say more than that at this point until we know what kind of funding we have to work with, but Stargate: Worlds—the fully-featured MMO that the team has spent years building—is still our absolute number one long-term objective.
There are a few critical positions we need to allow us to put everyone back on SGW, but in the meantime there are people working on it and it is by far our largest objective.
Thanks,
Shane
Real quick, you skipped all of these questions.
Hi Kyrie,
You're asking about the rumored "Stargate Battles." I have to be a little corporate on this one. My apologies in advance, but that's the way it has to be for now. So here's the answer I put in the interview JStrike sent me when he asked the same question:
Our license for Stargate covers more than just Worlds, and we absolutely have explored other games that take place in the SG universe. I honestly can’t say more than that at this point until we know what kind of funding we have to work with, but Stargate: Worlds—the fully-featured MMO that the team has spent years building—is still our absolute number one long-term objective.
There are a few critical positions we need to allow us to put everyone back on SGW, but in the meantime there are people working on it and it is by far our largest objective.
Thanks,
Shane
Not really Kyrie, he just answered the Stargate Battles one, even thought he quoted two different questions that have nothing to do with the answer given, your point still stands he skipped the rest of the questions.
Hi Kyrie,
I just answered all those questions and more in the JStrike interview. Not sure where he's posting it--here or on the official SGW forums. If I didn't give a good enough answer to your specific questions in that interview just hit me up again and I'll try to get to them this evening.
Cheers all,
Shane
So you are not going to answer my list of questions? Or you are going to tackle them later?
I’m confused, which can happen easily today due to lack of sleep and a busy schedule today.
I hope I'm not too late to get some questions in!
Could you clarify the corporate structure of the various entities? In particular, there is CME and CMG (which both appear to be full corporations), and it appears that Firesky (an LLC) is under CMG. Where are the studios, and in particular, which one is developing SGW? Which holds the SG IP license? Is there a reason for the complexity?
The current documentation available from the state of AZ for CME shows that Gary Whiting is the only member of the board of directors. Is this accurate?
There's been a lot of rumor and speculation around the current status of the SGW code. Is the game in a condition that it can be started and played internally?
Hi Kyrie,
You're asking about the rumored "Stargate Battles." I have to be a little corporate on this one. My apologies in advance, but that's the way it has to be for now. So here's the answer I put in the interview JStrike sent me when he asked the same question:
Our license for Stargate covers more than just Worlds, and we absolutely have explored other games that take place in the SG universe. I honestly can’t say more than that at this point until we know what kind of funding we have to work with, but Stargate: Worlds—the fully-featured MMO that the team has spent years building—is still our absolute number one long-term objective.
There are a few critical positions we need to allow us to put everyone back on SGW, but in the meantime there are people working on it and it is by far our largest objective.
Thanks,
Shane
Shane,
Thanks for the politically correct response. If I had to interpret your response, it would go something like this:
"If we were play-testing SGW, I would scream from the highest mountain and tell you how cool the zone/planet is and even post screen shots, but since we are not, I cannot answer you directly. "
Were you going to answer my other questions, or what?
Kyrie,
I believe the answers to all your questions are in the JStrike interview. Some I can't or won't answer directly, as I said before, and some I just don't know. I realize that's not probably not good enough for you, but I feel I've done my part at this point and need to move on to the SGW forums and the fans there. I'll check in here now and then though, and if there's a reasonable question I can answer, I'll do so.
I would also ask you to consider that just because you don't *like* an answer doesn't *always* make it wrong.
I would also ask that you look at this from my point of view for just a moment. I have little to gain from winning you over, and a lot of time and stress to waste in trying. I *am* trying, however, because I'd like to have a positive community where we can have constructive dialogue / criticism on our business and our games without it turning into personal attacks.
Have a good weekend.
Shane
What is to dislike, you answered diddlysquat. Feeling a little deflated seeing how I was extended an office visit and then totally ignored on the questions. What a shame too, because I had another set equally as challenging.
I admit, my questions are hard-hitting and by not answering them Shane, you have answered them.
Thanks for trying and enjoy your time away from the office!
Typical, comes in here and offers to answer questions and the only one he really shed any light on was the Big world/Unreal 3 question. The rest was confirming information we already had. As for his answer, Kyrie didn't say it was wrong he said your reply wasn't sufficient to be consider an answer to the question. As in most tough questions you were both ambigious and vague at the same time, whilst towing the "Team Whiting" line.
You came here to give us the information your boss wanted us to have before you leave next week, FACT! This was your last act to secure your back wages no doubt before you leave. " if there's a reasonable question I can answer, I'll do so.", translation, "Softball please!". If CME wanted a softball interview it could have done one with MMORPG.com officialy and set out the answers CME wanted asked. However CME prefered to keep a media blackout and say nothing for 8 months or more and now Gary Whiting wants some softball Q&A? Not enough time left before shutdown to arrange an interview with any respected site so try to haul in Kyrie on 1 days notice and do a softball Q&A because you're all leaving next week and you'll be keeping up appearances for MGM on that day?
Many probably think I'm wrong to address you in the fashion I am. Perhaps they're right and I'm making a fool of myself. However after being kept in the dark since last year and being given nothing but sanitised media sound bites or flat out bologne, I find what you're doing (under orders from your boss) a massive insult. Whiting thinks he can have you waltz in here now 1 day before August 1st and give some vague, ambigious and softball Q&A?
I don't blame you yourself Shane as you're doing what you have to before leaving the company, you don't want a black mark on your name or to lose your wages owed. However what Gary Whiting is doing is just "Too little, too late" which should be the mantra of all companies Whiting has been chairman of!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Thanks for your answer, Shane.
So, if I am correct, that is to say that SGW is making use of BigWorld, as a back-end server engine solution, and Unreal engine as a front-end graphic engine solution (since I don't see how it could be possible to mix BigWorld with Unreal for the client/graphics part and even if it could be possible, I would not see the point). Do you confirm BigWorld being the netcode solution and Unreal engine being the graphics engine solution behind SGW?
Another question: did CME go for a BigWorld license and then for an Unreal license, or did the idea to combine BigWorld to Unreal come from the beginning?
Thanks!
No, it's not only a flight sim
Current Work In Progress
I can answer that one pix, they got Big world first then nine months later they got Unreal 3 in 2007. I also agree that combining the two engines is costly and difficult compared to just using Big World, another bad decision that the average forum goer could point out but the 200 staff at CME/Firesky/Cash sink studios including upper managment were apparently oblivious to!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Anyone who has done this programing knows that it was an investor decision rather than a programing decision.
They thought they could recover more than the licensing fees and make profits by telling investors (who most likely have very little programing experience) something like " and we have licenses for 2 massive and modern gaming engines".
It didn't work though.
If the investors get to decide of how the developers should make the game its not going to be good.
Not really the investors making the decisions on how to program, more of a way to pitch it to investors. A plan to make the project look bigger as a method to collect more investors. I should have worded it better.
Thanks for the info, Agricola. So, in that case, something just doesn't match, you are correct... You don't set up a team to develop an AAA MMORPG title using a famous license, buy a server engine, wait 9 months and then buy a graphics engine to develop your product. Unreal engine is supposed to be the SDK used by developers on the client side, and the client is supposed to be developed ahead of the server.
If I were an investor of SGW, I believe I would wonder about this, to make sure my money was well spent, when and what for...
But maybe Shane could bring some more light on this point? Why go for a BigWorld server engine 9 months before going for the graphics game engine license?
No, it's not only a flight sim
Current Work In Progress
I could be totally off base, but bringing Unreal on 9 months later maybe had something to do with the fact they went through three technology directors during the course of developing SGW?
Perchance during one of the change in commands, they deemed Bigword's visuals crap or it was just not working with their skillsets? In addition, they were all licensed using Maya and then somewhere down the line switch to Unreal.
Both would have been very expensive mistakes to make, wasting more investor funds on incompetence.
I'll repeat what I said earlier about the Big World / Unreal issue. My understanding is that the team at the time did not find Big World's graphics suitable for the vision the art leads had for SGW. That would take a while to find out, take a bit more time to figure out if they could alter the code themselves, and then when they couldn't to find another solution (Unreal as the front end), then to negotiate the license for the new client-side engine.
I wasn't here at the time, but that's my understanding of the events that led to the merger of those two technologies.
Cheers,
Shane
Thanks for taking the time to answer the question.
Which I am surprised, most developers never answer it.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Thanks again, Shane.
After a short investigation, I've found this interesting interview:
I quote:
FiringSquad:How hard will it be to integrate the Unreal Engine with Big World's server technology?
Chris Bernert: Unreal said … Really difficult, many have tried, none have succeeded. BigWorld said … Impossible, you are mad. It is an incredibly difficult task and probably one of our largest technical challenges.
So, it seems that the issue was mainly on the technical side and that's probably why CME failed. What is quite surprising is that the team had to go for R&D (working on the engines, to make them play nice together), rather than to develop THE PRODUCT. Well that seems to indicate somebody did not make his job properly, OR that, much on the contrary... somebody did it a bit too well, but in that case, that would indicate the initial scheme was indeed to screw the many investors first and foremost... : humm, you're not supposed to spend hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of bucks in licensing technologies prior to conducting any serious technical research to make sure these engines will fit with your needs and work quite well together, aren't you? Unless there IS a valid reason that absolutely convinces you that it's a wise move not to indulge in years and years of R&D in building your own engine from the ground up, and you'd be much more comfortable in licencing 3rd Party techs that cannot but achieve the work in less time, and at much less risk, of course. Probably something to consider if other funds are injected for the development of SGW...
No, it's not only a flight sim
Current Work In Progress