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Neutral Roles: Are they a good idea? (Editted 1.1)
RamenThief7
Member Posts: 362
(Since it is apparent that most of you did not read this thread because it was too long, I took the liberty and time to edit it).
Neutral roles in my opinion deviate from group play. Eventually, were few restrictions on abilities put in place, the game would devolve to a point where everyone is a tanker/healer/dps (as one personn put it, essentially everyone is in "god mode"). We do not know much about FF XIV mechanics up to this point, but were FF XIV to follow the idea I just stated earlier, FF XIV would essentially not be group oriented.
Here is what I think should happen for neutral roles to exist, yet the game remains group-oriented and discourages "jack of all trades" builds that would destroy group aspects.
There could be neutral roles, and you could switch them (or rather, the weapon) on the fly with weapon switch penalties attached (look at my thread that discusses the weapon role of FF XIV). But, if you dedicated yourself to select abilities from certain roles, you could unlock passives to power up those specific abilities as well as gain access to powerful abilities that "jack of all trades" builds would not get. Lets say for instance you work on alot of white magic. As a result, you gain access to Curaja (the strongest group healing magic in the game), Full Cure (completely heal one person's health), and Holyja (powerful version of Holy, a holy-type magic attack).
You could still be other classes, but by dedicating yourself to certain abilities, you unlock powerful versions of the spells and get access to passives to increase your potential in those areas. Also, you can't use select abilities if you are not equipping the required equipment (no staff, no Curaja). Also, if you neglect to work on certain abilities you worked on before, then those spells will weaken over time. And did I mention this is real time? So, if you neglect use and work on white magic abilities for a few days, then don't be surprised if your Curaja isn't working properly....
Also, some tiers of "roles" could be unlocked by working on certain roles. I'll use for instance my favorite FF job in the entire series, the Holy Knight (or I guess Paladin inside FF XI). That tier wouldn't be available immediately, I would first have to work a decent amount of time on white magic abilities and the Swordsman role. Then, over time, I would then gain access to Holy Knight abilities. By the way, you have to dedicate yourself to the select "roles" to unlock these new tiers, so a "jack of all trades" build that worked a little on many things does not count towards unlocking new tiers.
So, these are my editted thoughts on the neutral roles thought. What are your thoughts?
Comments
I have editted this forum to express my new thoughts on the neutral roles idea. Enjoy.
I read the post but I wasnt sure I had anything to contribute. I mean, not to denounce anything, but it's basically a recap of everything discussed in a couple other threads amongst a couple other posters, but reworded and presented as "your thoughts". I remember bring up this concept specifically, referring to them as "perishable skills".
No offense. It's just that... we've already said it before. ;p
Abraxas [365]
This thread is basically a recap. I really designed it for the newbs of this area of the forums to help them understand the neutral role idea of FF XIV.
Input!
I like my perishable skills idea. ;p
I also like the subtle combination job class idea.
I was going over some possibilities with a friend of mine who's thoughts are derived from table-top dice-roll rpg's and he suggested something quite similar to your cross-classing to form new classes (but I held back from posting it to keep it a secret). ;p
Our concept was identical. You raise two separate abilities, and if those abilities could relate, they would unlock abilities for your new class, i.e. the holy knight.
But in addition to that, so that it's not restricted to classes and set paths, leveling specific skills also granted special abilities. You start with attack and defend, eventually you'd get guard, block, parry, then evade by focusing on defense; basically being a tank.
Skills equipped would be determined by your weapons and gear. Combining unarmored with evade would grant a mage dodge, while light armor with evade would grant a thief or ninja jump, which only becomes an attack with both heavy armor and a lance, i.e. the dragoon.
It's a completely customizable and interchangeable skillset that would literally take forever to complete, especially with them being perishable skills. Only by keeping the most balanced skills up to par could one fulfill the ideal red mage class, but you wouldn't be limited to red mage abilities. You could be a pseudo-red mage that focuses on your enfeeblements and enhancements, while contrast would reflect in those who chose to focus on both white curative and black elemental magic.
Not just a new way to get into your class, but new customization specialties for how you choose to play those classes, rather than a defined preset list of skills and spells and things.
Abraxas [365]
It might seem overwhelming at first, but it's how players could truly define and specialize in their respective styles of play. To prevent things from getting too confusing, these skill advencements are all to be considered as tiers, and said tiers would require a certain skill level to unlock, realized with the combination of other skills.
So you couldn't get jump JUST by being a tank. Youd have to use abilities like dodge quite often, then equip heavy armor and lance, both of which you must be sufficiently skilled with, to use jump - which is more practical for a DD than a tank. How you find the wyvern is by 'studying' the path of a dragoon after a certain skill level - when the wyvern instead finds you, the practitioner of the old and long forgotten dragonlance warrior. So it would be both immensely difficult and rewarding at the same time.
I see vast potential for story development in addition to character and playstyle development. The possibilities are quite literally endless, all spawning from neutral roles.
Though I'm not sure the devs are quite capable of pulling of such an advanced and freebase system just yet...
Abraxas [365]
Just something else to add to this whole concept spiel...
Since they're making weapons and armor perishable, we're left to wonder to what extent. They would be excellent death penalties I think. I was discussing this within my LS.
Realistically, even if a player were to gain experience in the event of defeat (as we've all heard being an argument in that you learn from defeat), being defeated in and of itself means that either your weapon would have broken and/or your armor would have been pierced, and rendered almost ineffective.
When they complain about deleveling, just a sidepoint that I figure I might as well bring up here, your level reflects your skill as an adventurer. Losing experience points might seem unrealistic, but losing a level is not. Even if you gained experience for defeat, you would lose status as a competent adventurer. Being beaten by a monster causes people to second-guess your abilities.
So maybe instead of losing whatever form of experience there is to gain, your armor and / or weapon breaks, AND you lose a rank in social status (as opposed to or in relation to your level of fame) meaning you may have to repeat some quests to regain the citizens faith in addition to buying more gear (or at least having a craftsman fix it for a reasonable price). But hey, at least you kept your precious experience...
Regardless to the fact that there will not necessarily be exp. points; retaining your skills learned is moot when you need the approprite equipment to use them. ;p
Abraxas [365]