No offence to everyone to shatter their dreams but, I don't think a game company ever can think of making a reason to help others ofcourse if you would get 10hp buff for helping a person for a quest ok.. but there is eventually repetive feeling and a lame quest done 10 times for the buff for a hour or so.
The system would be made very complicated like if you want to do solo ok... but you easily can die that way but there is also no motivation to play in a team cause like it would not be l4d and just a mission finish it and go to the next one i seriously don't think a horror/survival mmo would work out IMHO
Edit: a short edit and you can't really build op a community if you're dieing every 10 seconds or so running for zombies
Originally posted by vrembrantv That sounds great, but we would have to come up with classes of zombies that are not totally trounced by the superior firepower of the normals. Because the whole advantage zombies have over normals is the fact that they have numbers on their side. It would require some creativity but I would love to come up with Zombie Classes.
Superior firepower would be in limited supply. Guns need ammo.
One of my favourite aspects of survival horror is improvising of weapons. Such weapons would be relatively easy to find and make, but fragile and of varying effectiveness. 'Pointed sticks' FTW!
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
No offence to everyone to shatter their dreams but, I don't think a game company ever can think of making a reason to help others ofcourse if you would get 10hp buff for helping a person for a quest ok.. but there is eventually repetive feeling and a lame quest done 10 times for the buff for a hour or so.
You help others because there are NO friendly NPCs - only monsters and players. You can solo if you want, but...GL with that. You had better stick to wide open spaces and sleep VERY lightly.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
It would work quite well if the dev team was creative enough I'd have to say.
Might require a sci-fi addtion like a way to cure the virus and perhaps a way to revive recently decieced people/zombies added to the storyline (similar to how the web based urban dead works it.)
Add that to a PvPvE similar to aion City V city V NPC zombies where humans vie for land and resources but, must team up to protect themselves from the ever growing horde of undead.
of course the virus or whatever would need mutations and variations for things like 'boss' zombies and of course you could have mutates that were immune to the virus but were deformed significantly.
there would be some form of currency but, you'd only be able to buy basic things and those things would eventually run out of stock until a player brought a unmarked box of supplies to the NPC through a quest.
As for NPC city dwellers, don't have them respawn, fill the world with about 2000 per server and have cities vie for them & have to sneak into other cities and talk them into joining a different city based on various moral parameters in the game.
I'd add more ideas but, I have to leave for a job interview now. Ciao.
Smarter NPCs are always a good idea. Even more so in the adverse of small player bases in upstart games. Sure a typical experienced mmo gamer can save his/her own skin, but what about the NPCs upon which the civilization is built.
The "Why not" asked is a very simple thing to answer.
Becuase:
There isnt a current MMO dev team out there that has the skill to make such a game work.Just look at the failures theyve turned out with the simple "any monkey can win" design.It would be like asking someone who cant add 2 and 2 and get the correct answer, to do trig.
This isnt a mainstream design.Though it is by far a better design that would likely turn the player retention failure we currently see on its head,if made right.Meaning it would likely start out small and grow,unlike the current crop of MMO "any monkey can win" games that start out with large sales and then bleed customers like a hemophiliac in an iron maiden.BUT again thats if it was made right, and again,thats not a good bet with current teams.You'd be better off betting on an Enron rebirth.
AND theres the many of the current MMO players who would be a negative to such a game.If the game was truly made right, it would really be about survival for the characters, and that small percentage of complete asshats out there would screw this up for the other players.Now again, this could be countered by a proper design,but again we arent likely to see such a thing done right.
Its almost a blessing that such a game isnt being made now,after all, why piss away yet another opportunity by giving it to those who have such a huge record of failure...Better to wait for a team that can show its not just another reformed band of hacks.
Its almost a blessing that such a game isnt being made now,after all, why piss away yet another opportunity by giving it to those who have such a huge record of failure...Better to wait for a team that can show its not just another reformed band of hacks.
And I thought I was bitter.
Except for there being no point to trying, I agree with your post.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I've always liked your MMO ideas, but there seems to be a common thread: lack of scalability. All of your ideas could make great Multiplayer Online games, but not many (including this one) are feasible when it comes to the Massively part. How much will the game feel like Survival Horror when there are hundreds of people in the same "cities"? How many times is that farmer going to be rescued and then plopped back where he was found for another group to rescue? The answer to those questions may be instancing, but if you're instancing practically the entire game, what's the point of making it Massively Multiplayer?
well for one the OP said their would be one farmer (to rules them all!) so its not some endly respawn its resources everyone has to kill for or share. That said the design has merit but has a few massive zombie infested semi holes in it.
"Hi i'm new let me...oh you already saved the world"
With a player driven city the eary adoptors would make the world, so now its a year in your a new player. What do you do? Find some new spot to form a new city and recruit fellow founders/merchents EXCEPT "uh why would i help you The City of Bob is right over there, fully furnished"
"I hate PvP"
If resorces, such as farmers, are limited that means City vs City conflicts. Some people just want to shoot zombies not other players but PvP is being forced, and again think of the new player. You JUST arrived into the city of bob, have only basic gear and now the rival city of "Hot Bewwbs" run in and kills everyone after you just escaped the waste land.
What about having a roster of characters - some as normal, some as zombies?
That sounds great, but we would have to come up with classes of zombies that are not totally trounced by the superior firepower of the normals. Because the whole advantage zombies have over normals is the fact that they have numbers on their side.
It would require some creativity but I would love to come up with Zombie Classes.
1 word:
Mastermind
you don't create A zombie, you create a small "horde" of zombies. so like 3 Zombie players is like 16 actual zombies.
The only way I would like to see PvP in this sort of game is if it was humans versus zombies.
Imagine that a group of humans decided to run an instance (a multi-level mall, for example). The zombie players online would get a notice that spots are open on the defense (zombie) side. Real players could take up roles as zombies in the mall, trying to infect or eat players.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
have it all one server, like eve, but! a place is chosen at random. (I know this will P off some people who like to play with friends) all the major cities in the world, and people scattered around them. Now for the first month or so of the MMO, zombies will be easy. this will give a people to start building some skills and stuff. but then the attacks start gettting bigger.
Now as you rebuild, you get access to technology like plane or helicopter and can keep them running so you can visit othe cities. now as population get redistributed in these towns, some of these towns will get run over as people leave til there only say one safe area. this is where a helicopter land, and you get given two choices. either try to make more safe spots or visit if any, or raids.
Now the safe spots that are built by players are ruled by players. better not ninja loot people or something cos in a big zombie overrun session, the nearest safe house, the only one you can get to, is player owned. and you ninja looted him last week. so your dead. perma dead.
But hey, you left behind a son or daughter! they have acess to all your own stuff that you may have stored, bad news is, they may only have little skills, or (taking a leaf from eve) if you chose play/train with son/daughter then that person has some skills. that way, if you dont like your char, start training up your next one, and then when it ready, go on a rampage against zombies with the old one.
Be warned though, wouldnt go on a rampage against other people when trying to die, cos last name is always kept that would be the name that gets blocked. so that rampage could cost your son hefty fines or equipment confisicated with safehouses blocked against him, the only area you can go is the helicopter compound, and well, those are crap. but well it law of the jungle out there.
Ok I given a general idea, someone try and bring it to life! lol.
oh and for you pvp types. duelling is the only way to sort out arguements once and for all. or if there is a group of you, well you could try and take other safe house, but be warned, this could have you labelled outlaws by other safe house people and they might start shooting you on sight.
Give players tools to create their own quests, and you get longevity in...
Want to recruit newcomers? Create a quest chain that leads them to your place. At start, they choose the most appealing "chain" not knowing where it leads them.
Need some resources to develop your settlement? Create a quest opened for your townspeople.
Want someone killed? Hell yea, create a quest!
...
People get a feeling that the world is ever evolving. My problem is indeed the rewards... The social development does not sell by itself. People need some sort of direct reward. If every custom made quest just "injects" currency into game world, it may become unbalanced. Maybe make custom made quests need to be paid? Every successful "mission" needs to be paid by the creator. On the other hand, the creator receives either the resources, the new recruit, or just personal satisfaction for getting the job done.
Whatever... I honestly believe there's so much that CAN technically be done to develop such type of games. It does require however a different type of maintaining, other then that of the current trend...
you don't create A zombie, you create a small "horde" of zombies. so like 3 Zombie players is like 16 actual zombies.
Very nice. But also, we would have to create classes that would help fill out the zombie side. Perhaps every zombie can start out normal (Well, normal for a zombie) and then have to complete a particular quest at a certain level to become one of the classes:(Examples)
Bruiser- (Tank)- Massive undead warrior who had grown quite larger and hearty by consuming other lesser undeads. The further mutation has caused the Bruiser to grow in strength and stamina giving them large health bars. Also known for their ability to take large amounts of damage and their devastating melee knockbacks.
Stalker- (Melee DPS)- Undead who gained an unnatural ability vanish into its surroundings (for limited amounts of time) by consuming mutated flesh. Stalker is known for its deadly ambush ability and sharpened claws.
you don't create A zombie, you create a small "horde" of zombies. so like 3 Zombie players is like 16 actual zombies.
Very nice. But also, we would have to create classes that would help fill out the zombie side. Perhaps every zombie can start out normal (Well, normal for a zombie) and then have to complete a particular quest at a certain level to become one of the classes:(Examples)
Bruiser- (Tank)- Massive undead warrior who had grown quite larger and hearty by consuming other lesser undeads. The further mutation has caused the Bruiser to grow in strength and stamina giving them large health bars. Also known for their ability to take large amounts of damage and their devastating melee knockbacks.
Stalker- (Melee DPS)- Undead who gained an unnatural ability vanish into its surroundings (for limited amounts of time) by consuming mutated flesh. Stalker is known for its deadly ambush ability and sharpened claws.
well since where making a hord i'd just give the player Zombie Points for various upgrades.
Do you stard off with a dozen mindless normal zombies or pump points into a few. Sure you have only 3 but they run fast, climb wall and have a 8 foot tonghe....oh and spit acid.
as you eat BRAINZ you earn XP and when you level up you get more ZPs
Its got nothing to do with "bitterness",its got everything to do with an honest appraisal of the current condition of the MMO industry.
Dont forget what a stillborn joke Exanimus turned out to be.And thats not even as bad as it could get, just look at some of the proposed designs....
A PvP oriented class based wow clone with zombies skins ?Yea that will work ..../sarcasm
There isnt a MMO dev team out there that has shown it can move beyond the same old crap in a new wrapper designs they think of as creative.And such an MMO would need to move past almost all of that old dinosaur crap they call design.Dont believe me, just stay tuned.Secret World is gonna be the next example of how beyond the current MMO dev teams "skills" such a game is.And Secret World will be about as survival oriented as a daycare camp.
I really like this idea, I think game devs should get on it. New MMO genres usually do really well in the beginning hopefully there will be a zombie survival mmo in the near future.
I would also throw other monsters in there too to keep it diverse. But if I just had zombies they would be fast and there would be ALOT.
I'm fine with other types of monsters (demons, vampires, mutants, etc) being in such a game, but:
If they're not slow, dumb, and virtually unkillable, they're not zombies. They're something else. AS for numerous - yes, and they would be more numerous the longer the settlement has existed. Eventually, the Humans woudl be overwhelmed and scattered to form new havens in the wilderness.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I have to say I am disappointed with a lot of the suggestions for this type of game. Talk of levels, raids, quest NPCs and the like. How does that make any sense at all with regard to the context of the article's repeated plea for the game to be a 'SANDBOX MMO'?
As the article pointed out, the only way to truly bring a game to life in this particular genre would be with a skill-based system; you have to learn the skills you need for survival, and that isn't just combat skills. This is a great way to share prominent focus of combat and non-combat skills and give it all actual meaning in a game, and yet so many replies seem to shift right back to MMO-mode with quests, levels, raids, PVP, etc - totally disregarding the article's 'SANDBOX' requirement. In MY opinion, if you want to see an MMO in this genre be true to the survival horror genre, you have to really let go of almost ALL of the MMO traditions; otherwise the suspension of disbelief isn't going to happen.
If a game like this were going to be developed, and it had levels, NPCs, quests and the like I would be tremendously disappointed. All of those elements alleviate a significant portion of the 'interdependency' required, (and mentioned several times in the article,) and encourage the soloing type of gameplay that is definitely something to be 'discouraged' I'll say at least. Survival Horror as a genre is at it's core about people having to pull together for mutual protection in the hopes of mutual proliferation, and the eventual reclaiming of the world that had been lost.
As for the 'feeling alone' part of the game, that's where the absence of NPCs plays a part. I think you'd be surprised how strangely 'alone' a game would feel if the NPCs were non-existent. No forced / artificial / far-fetched connection to the game world - just the other players. Think about it... You'd have to rely on other people exclusively... Scary thought huh? That alone would lead to 'guilds' or 'factions' developing naturally, (which is an awesome propsal if you ask me.)
It'd be a genuine innovation to properly execute a game like this.
If Fallen Earth had decided on this genre facet of the post-apocalytic theme, (they have the sandbox part covered from what I've read, what with scavenging for crafting / building materials etc.) then they might have a bigger potential hit on their hands, in my opinion.
ive allready posted something very similar to this allready a zombie attack in itself seems too small for an MMO just a big long zombie fight instead of a 2 hour zombie fight seems like people would get bored killing zombies after 4-5 hours.
my idea Is more of "strange new world" basicly where you escape your dieing planet through a gate or teleporter with a small pack of limited gear and land on a planet and all you really know is that where you land is fairly safe and there is a small outpost nearby. you start out by knowing absolutly nothing about the world what resources there are, do all the same basic physics hold true? even the stars moons and planets in te sky. I expect there are actually several colonies scattered accross the planet that will at some time interact. there will be strange plants and animals and maby even inteligent life (do you make friends? or become enemies)
you would have to deal with all sorts of obsticals and chalanges food water clothing shelter weapons tools medicine dealing with weather and climate and hazards such
the goal is to survive thrive and explore and discover
there would of course be plenty of enemies to fight giant ants or sabertooth grizzly and how do humans bring down a critter the size of a rhino?
what is there to discover anchient ruins lost cities graveyards
players might have a note/data book where they post information as they discover things like which way is north, does the planet have a moon or more? size of the planet, the climate and seasons of the area they would be like achievements they could even be in a different dimention where mutants are common or magic depending on your prefered flavor. Ive allways wanted to try a game that had low fantacy where magic was difficult to master
make a world, not a game, we dont want another game.
I have to say I am disappointed with a lot of the suggestions for this type of game. Talk of levels, raids, quest NPCs and the like. How does that make any sense at all with regard to the context of the article's repeated plea for the game to be a 'SANDBOX MMO'?
As the article pointed out, the only way to truly bring a game to life in this particular genre would be with a skill-based system; you have to learn the skills you need for survival, and that isn't just combat skills. This is a great way to share prominent focus of combat and non-combat skills and give it all actual meaning in a game, and yet so many replies seem to shift right back to MMO-mode with quests, levels, raids, PVP, etc - totally disregarding the article's 'SANDBOX' requirement. In MY opinion, if you want to see an MMO in this genre be true to the survival horror genre, you have to really let go of almost ALL of the MMO traditions; otherwise the suspension of disbelief isn't going to happen.
If a game like this were going to be developed, and it had levels, NPCs, quests and the like I would be tremendously disappointed. All of those elements alleviate a significant portion of the 'interdependency' required, (and mentioned several times in the article,) and encourage the soloing type of gameplay that is definitely something to be 'discouraged' I'll say at least. Survival Horror as a genre is at it's core about people having to pull together for mutual protection in the hopes of mutual proliferation, and the eventual reclaiming of the world that had been lost.
As for the 'feeling alone' part of the game, that's where the absence of NPCs plays a part. I think you'd be surprised how strangely 'alone' a game would feel if the NPCs were non-existent. No forced / artificial / far-fetched connection to the game world - just the other players. Think about it... You'd have to rely on other people exclusively... Scary thought huh? That alone would lead to 'guilds' or 'factions' developing naturally, (which is an awesome propsal if you ask me.)
It'd be a genuine innovation to properly execute a game like this.
If Fallen Earth had decided on this genre facet of the post-apocalytic theme, (they have the sandbox part covered from what I've read, what with scavenging for crafting / building materials etc.) then they might have a bigger potential hit on their hands, in my opinion.
Sometimes things that look nifty are a pain in the ass to read.
Great idea, I would like to see a sandbox MMO in style of Fallout or RAGE with player build: settlements, vehicles, weapons and armors; various types of mutants, including beast-like mutants, a virus which causes mutation and when you get infected you have a choice to continue your existence as one of them, try to find a cure or commit a suicide.
Game play focused on daily survival: fighting off/avoiding/running away hordes of mutants, raiders, mad cultists, insane from hunger beasts; looking for a safe shelter for incoming night or day ( depending of what area it is and what kind danger you can encounter ), looking for water and food (hunger system ); radiation and illnesses ( looking for medicines, water purification tablets etc. ); looking/salvaging for resources to build weapons, armors,machines, buildings, scavenging old technology and ammunition.
Skill system with skill cap and symbolic leveling. By symbolic, I mean it wouldn't affect your aiming but rather: what you can use, how often your weapon will get jammed, how fast it will fall apart, how fast you will reload.
Full loot and pvp, but with environment so harsh that people will think twice before they will shoot you in your back. People will be forced to cooperate to boost their survival chances, however still make tough choices/ Should I help my wounded friend and risk spending a night away from a safe place or leave him behind and reach a survival base on the top of ruined sky scraper ? Should I try to find antibiotics/anti-rad medicine from near for my sick friend or let him die so I can take his water, shiny M-16 with plenty of ammo ?
One character per server, inherited surname for all your next characters ( so your good and bad deeds will always follow you ), perma death - oh yes I know that so many of you are scared now but that's a most for survival horror.
The last feature would be the ultimate survival goal: making yourself a child in a friendly village. So each time when you die you pass yourself a part of your skills to get a easier start each time when you die ( of course with some limits ). If you fail with it you start again as random survivalist somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
hideo kojima and shinji mikami(metal gear and resident evil creators) had this idea
"The zombie idea I have is a bit different. Imagine a large town where half the inhabitants are zombies. Users would subscribe, get inside the town and get bitten. At that stage they become undead and can't control their character - all they can do is modify the camera angles... They'd see their character attacking humans and have to pay just to watch! The only way they could end it is by opening another account, hunting themselves down and killing themselves. Of course, the problem is that your second character can get bitten as well."
now part of that, is an intresting idea. other then possibly needing a second account to deal with it, but if you had several character slots per server, then it would be pretty cool, if you lost one due to turning, and had to hunt yourself down, in order to get that slot back. it would also be cool, to log in, and see what your zombie was doing. but that would bring up an intresting idea, persistence. could we have an mmo in which all our characters, are always in the world. making logging out one of the most important things to consider.
now i would like to see two things taken from SWG and tabula rasa for a survival mmo. SWG i would want city building. you may have to give the player options to convert buildings into villages and safe havens, and also give players the option to build walls and structures, in the wild, and create there own little towns. you could place walls, defense structures for sniping, pouring boiled oil, launch flaming arrows, and under the right circumstances, prehaps you've found a military depot, and you have access to flamethrowers or m60 mounted rifles, things like that. now, the second part to that, i'd like seen, is from tabula rasa, but a little more extreme. all safe havens, from player build areas, to the static npc havens, can be over run.
what would happen, is the more people holed up in the area, the more zombies would spawn in said area. in fact, those little quests to kill x amount of zombies, would increase in amount, the fewer done. every area would have a zombie meter, with the red zone, being decided on a few things, namely, the size of said outpost, and the other major factor, would be the defenses of the outposts. if not enough kill quests are being done, the meter rises, when it enters the red zone, a five minute counter would appear, if not enough players get out there to deal with the zombie horde, they over run the outpost, and you have to fight inside your town to keep it from being overrun. if you fail, the zombies keep it, and other players have the chance to move into your place, while your regrouping.
i also think it should be full pvp with looting, and it has to be a skill system like swg.... not darkfall. i have more ideas... i've been thinking about this kind of mmo for awhile....
Comments
No offence to everyone to shatter their dreams but, I don't think a game company ever can think of making a reason to help others ofcourse if you would get 10hp buff for helping a person for a quest ok.. but there is eventually repetive feeling and a lame quest done 10 times for the buff for a hour or so.
The system would be made very complicated like if you want to do solo ok... but you easily can die that way but there is also no motivation to play in a team cause like it would not be l4d and just a mission finish it and go to the next one i seriously don't think a horror/survival mmo would work out IMHO
Edit: a short edit and you can't really build op a community if you're dieing every 10 seconds or so running for zombies
Superior firepower would be in limited supply. Guns need ammo.
One of my favourite aspects of survival horror is improvising of weapons. Such weapons would be relatively easy to find and make, but fragile and of varying effectiveness. 'Pointed sticks' FTW!
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
You help others because there are NO friendly NPCs - only monsters and players. You can solo if you want, but...GL with that. You had better stick to wide open spaces and sleep VERY lightly.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
It would work quite well if the dev team was creative enough I'd have to say.
Might require a sci-fi addtion like a way to cure the virus and perhaps a way to revive recently decieced people/zombies added to the storyline (similar to how the web based urban dead works it.)
Add that to a PvPvE similar to aion City V city V NPC zombies where humans vie for land and resources but, must team up to protect themselves from the ever growing horde of undead.
of course the virus or whatever would need mutations and variations for things like 'boss' zombies and of course you could have mutates that were immune to the virus but were deformed significantly.
there would be some form of currency but, you'd only be able to buy basic things and those things would eventually run out of stock until a player brought a unmarked box of supplies to the NPC through a quest.
As for NPC city dwellers, don't have them respawn, fill the world with about 2000 per server and have cities vie for them & have to sneak into other cities and talk them into joining a different city based on various moral parameters in the game.
I'd add more ideas but, I have to leave for a job interview now. Ciao.
Smarter NPCs are always a good idea. Even more so in the adverse of small player bases in upstart games. Sure a typical experienced mmo gamer can save his/her own skin, but what about the NPCs upon which the civilization is built.
The "Why not" asked is a very simple thing to answer.
Becuase:
There isnt a current MMO dev team out there that has the skill to make such a game work.Just look at the failures theyve turned out with the simple "any monkey can win" design.It would be like asking someone who cant add 2 and 2 and get the correct answer, to do trig.
This isnt a mainstream design.Though it is by far a better design that would likely turn the player retention failure we currently see on its head,if made right.Meaning it would likely start out small and grow,unlike the current crop of MMO "any monkey can win" games that start out with large sales and then bleed customers like a hemophiliac in an iron maiden.BUT again thats if it was made right, and again,thats not a good bet with current teams.You'd be better off betting on an Enron rebirth.
AND theres the many of the current MMO players who would be a negative to such a game.If the game was truly made right, it would really be about survival for the characters, and that small percentage of complete asshats out there would screw this up for the other players.Now again, this could be countered by a proper design,but again we arent likely to see such a thing done right.
Its almost a blessing that such a game isnt being made now,after all, why piss away yet another opportunity by giving it to those who have such a huge record of failure...Better to wait for a team that can show its not just another reformed band of hacks.
And I thought I was bitter.
Except for there being no point to trying, I agree with your post.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
well for one the OP said their would be one farmer (to rules them all!) so its not some endly respawn its resources everyone has to kill for or share. That said the design has merit but has a few massive zombie infested semi holes in it.
"Hi i'm new let me...oh you already saved the world"
With a player driven city the eary adoptors would make the world, so now its a year in your a new player. What do you do? Find some new spot to form a new city and recruit fellow founders/merchents EXCEPT "uh why would i help you The City of Bob is right over there, fully furnished"
"I hate PvP"
If resorces, such as farmers, are limited that means City vs City conflicts. Some people just want to shoot zombies not other players but PvP is being forced, and again think of the new player. You JUST arrived into the city of bob, have only basic gear and now the rival city of "Hot Bewwbs" run in and kills everyone after you just escaped the waste land.
3: Greifers
Nuff' said.
That sounds great, but we would have to come up with classes of zombies that are not totally trounced by the superior firepower of the normals. Because the whole advantage zombies have over normals is the fact that they have numbers on their side.
It would require some creativity but I would love to come up with Zombie Classes.
1 word:
Mastermind
you don't create A zombie, you create a small "horde" of zombies. so like 3 Zombie players is like 16 actual zombies.
The only way I would like to see PvP in this sort of game is if it was humans versus zombies.
Imagine that a group of humans decided to run an instance (a multi-level mall, for example). The zombie players online would get a notice that spots are open on the defense (zombie) side. Real players could take up roles as zombies in the mall, trying to infect or eat players.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
have it all one server, like eve, but! a place is chosen at random. (I know this will P off some people who like to play with friends) all the major cities in the world, and people scattered around them. Now for the first month or so of the MMO, zombies will be easy. this will give a people to start building some skills and stuff. but then the attacks start gettting bigger.
Now as you rebuild, you get access to technology like plane or helicopter and can keep them running so you can visit othe cities. now as population get redistributed in these towns, some of these towns will get run over as people leave til there only say one safe area. this is where a helicopter land, and you get given two choices. either try to make more safe spots or visit if any, or raids.
Now the safe spots that are built by players are ruled by players. better not ninja loot people or something cos in a big zombie overrun session, the nearest safe house, the only one you can get to, is player owned. and you ninja looted him last week. so your dead. perma dead.
But hey, you left behind a son or daughter! they have acess to all your own stuff that you may have stored, bad news is, they may only have little skills, or (taking a leaf from eve) if you chose play/train with son/daughter then that person has some skills. that way, if you dont like your char, start training up your next one, and then when it ready, go on a rampage against zombies with the old one.
Be warned though, wouldnt go on a rampage against other people when trying to die, cos last name is always kept that would be the name that gets blocked. so that rampage could cost your son hefty fines or equipment confisicated with safehouses blocked against him, the only area you can go is the helicopter compound, and well, those are crap. but well it law of the jungle out there.
Ok I given a general idea, someone try and bring it to life! lol.
oh and for you pvp types. duelling is the only way to sort out arguements once and for all. or if there is a group of you, well you could try and take other safe house, but be warned, this could have you labelled outlaws by other safe house people and they might start shooting you on sight.
Give players tools to create their own quests, and you get longevity in...
Want to recruit newcomers? Create a quest chain that leads them to your place. At start, they choose the most appealing "chain" not knowing where it leads them.
Need some resources to develop your settlement? Create a quest opened for your townspeople.
Want someone killed? Hell yea, create a quest!
...
People get a feeling that the world is ever evolving. My problem is indeed the rewards... The social development does not sell by itself. People need some sort of direct reward. If every custom made quest just "injects" currency into game world, it may become unbalanced. Maybe make custom made quests need to be paid? Every successful "mission" needs to be paid by the creator. On the other hand, the creator receives either the resources, the new recruit, or just personal satisfaction for getting the job done.
Whatever... I honestly believe there's so much that CAN technically be done to develop such type of games. It does require however a different type of maintaining, other then that of the current trend...
Just some loose thoughts...
"Vidis Fodidis Est"
1 word:
Mastermind
you don't create A zombie, you create a small "horde" of zombies. so like 3 Zombie players is like 16 actual zombies.
Very nice. But also, we would have to create classes that would help fill out the zombie side. Perhaps every zombie can start out normal (Well, normal for a zombie) and then have to complete a particular quest at a certain level to become one of the classes:(Examples)
Bruiser- (Tank)- Massive undead warrior who had grown quite larger and hearty by consuming other lesser undeads. The further mutation has caused the Bruiser to grow in strength and stamina giving them large health bars. Also known for their ability to take large amounts of damage and their devastating melee knockbacks.
Stalker- (Melee DPS)- Undead who gained an unnatural ability vanish into its surroundings (for limited amounts of time) by consuming mutated flesh. Stalker is known for its deadly ambush ability and sharpened claws.
1 word:
Mastermind
you don't create A zombie, you create a small "horde" of zombies. so like 3 Zombie players is like 16 actual zombies.
Very nice. But also, we would have to create classes that would help fill out the zombie side. Perhaps every zombie can start out normal (Well, normal for a zombie) and then have to complete a particular quest at a certain level to become one of the classes:(Examples)
Bruiser- (Tank)- Massive undead warrior who had grown quite larger and hearty by consuming other lesser undeads. The further mutation has caused the Bruiser to grow in strength and stamina giving them large health bars. Also known for their ability to take large amounts of damage and their devastating melee knockbacks.
Stalker- (Melee DPS)- Undead who gained an unnatural ability vanish into its surroundings (for limited amounts of time) by consuming mutated flesh. Stalker is known for its deadly ambush ability and sharpened claws.
well since where making a hord i'd just give the player Zombie Points for various upgrades.
Do you stard off with a dozen mindless normal zombies or pump points into a few. Sure you have only 3 but they run fast, climb wall and have a 8 foot tonghe....oh and spit acid.
as you eat BRAINZ you earn XP and when you level up you get more ZPs
Its got nothing to do with "bitterness",its got everything to do with an honest appraisal of the current condition of the MMO industry.
Dont forget what a stillborn joke Exanimus turned out to be.And thats not even as bad as it could get, just look at some of the proposed designs....
A PvP oriented class based wow clone with zombies skins ?Yea that will work ..../sarcasm
There isnt a MMO dev team out there that has shown it can move beyond the same old crap in a new wrapper designs they think of as creative.And such an MMO would need to move past almost all of that old dinosaur crap they call design.Dont believe me, just stay tuned.Secret World is gonna be the next example of how beyond the current MMO dev teams "skills" such a game is.And Secret World will be about as survival oriented as a daycare camp.
I would allow ammo to be lootable in PVP...
I would also throw other monsters in there too to keep it diverse. But if I just had zombies they would be fast and there would be ALOT.
I really like this idea, I think game devs should get on it. New MMO genres usually do really well in the beginning hopefully there will be a zombie survival mmo in the near future.
Current MMO: Aion
MMO Watch: Warhammer 40k Online, SWToR, GW2.
Played: Planetside, SWG, EQ, EQ2, L2, WoW, RFO, KAL, MxO, Voyage, RO,Vanguard,Tabula Rasa, Horizons, CoH/CoV,, Lotro, FFXI
First MMO: Everquest (Tunare Server, Ronin/Tide Guild)
I'm fine with other types of monsters (demons, vampires, mutants, etc) being in such a game, but:
If they're not slow, dumb, and virtually unkillable, they're not zombies. They're something else. AS for numerous - yes, and they would be more numerous the longer the settlement has existed. Eventually, the Humans woudl be overwhelmed and scattered to form new havens in the wilderness.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I have to say I am disappointed with a lot of the suggestions for this type of game. Talk of levels, raids, quest NPCs and the like. How does that make any sense at all with regard to the context of the article's repeated plea for the game to be a 'SANDBOX MMO'?
As the article pointed out, the only way to truly bring a game to life in this particular genre would be with a skill-based system; you have to learn the skills you need for survival, and that isn't just combat skills. This is a great way to share prominent focus of combat and non-combat skills and give it all actual meaning in a game, and yet so many replies seem to shift right back to MMO-mode with quests, levels, raids, PVP, etc - totally disregarding the article's 'SANDBOX' requirement. In MY opinion, if you want to see an MMO in this genre be true to the survival horror genre, you have to really let go of almost ALL of the MMO traditions; otherwise the suspension of disbelief isn't going to happen.
If a game like this were going to be developed, and it had levels, NPCs, quests and the like I would be tremendously disappointed. All of those elements alleviate a significant portion of the 'interdependency' required, (and mentioned several times in the article,) and encourage the soloing type of gameplay that is definitely something to be 'discouraged' I'll say at least. Survival Horror as a genre is at it's core about people having to pull together for mutual protection in the hopes of mutual proliferation, and the eventual reclaiming of the world that had been lost.
As for the 'feeling alone' part of the game, that's where the absence of NPCs plays a part. I think you'd be surprised how strangely 'alone' a game would feel if the NPCs were non-existent. No forced / artificial / far-fetched connection to the game world - just the other players. Think about it... You'd have to rely on other people exclusively... Scary thought huh? That alone would lead to 'guilds' or 'factions' developing naturally, (which is an awesome propsal if you ask me.)
It'd be a genuine innovation to properly execute a game like this.
If Fallen Earth had decided on this genre facet of the post-apocalytic theme, (they have the sandbox part covered from what I've read, what with scavenging for crafting / building materials etc.) then they might have a bigger potential hit on their hands, in my opinion.
ive allready posted something very similar to this allready a zombie attack in itself seems too small for an MMO just a big long zombie fight instead of a 2 hour zombie fight seems like people would get bored killing zombies after 4-5 hours.
my idea Is more of "strange new world" basicly where you escape your dieing planet through a gate or teleporter with a small pack of limited gear and land on a planet and all you really know is that where you land is fairly safe and there is a small outpost nearby. you start out by knowing absolutly nothing about the world what resources there are, do all the same basic physics hold true? even the stars moons and planets in te sky. I expect there are actually several colonies scattered accross the planet that will at some time interact. there will be strange plants and animals and maby even inteligent life (do you make friends? or become enemies)
you would have to deal with all sorts of obsticals and chalanges food water clothing shelter weapons tools medicine dealing with weather and climate and hazards such
the goal is to survive thrive and explore and discover
there would of course be plenty of enemies to fight giant ants or sabertooth grizzly and how do humans bring down a critter the size of a rhino?
what is there to discover anchient ruins lost cities graveyards
players might have a note/data book where they post information as they discover things like which way is north, does the planet have a moon or more? size of the planet, the climate and seasons of the area they would be like achievements they could even be in a different dimention where mutants are common or magic depending on your prefered flavor. Ive allways wanted to try a game that had low fantacy where magic was difficult to master
make a world, not a game, we dont want another game.
Sometimes things that look nifty are a pain in the ass to read.
Try Fallen Earth and Earthrise, both fit your category. I wonder why you bothered to write the article?
Great idea, I would like to see a sandbox MMO in style of Fallout or RAGE with player build: settlements, vehicles, weapons and armors; various types of mutants, including beast-like mutants, a virus which causes mutation and when you get infected you have a choice to continue your existence as one of them, try to find a cure or commit a suicide.
Game play focused on daily survival: fighting off/avoiding/running away hordes of mutants, raiders, mad cultists, insane from hunger beasts; looking for a safe shelter for incoming night or day ( depending of what area it is and what kind danger you can encounter ), looking for water and food (hunger system ); radiation and illnesses ( looking for medicines, water purification tablets etc. ); looking/salvaging for resources to build weapons, armors,machines, buildings, scavenging old technology and ammunition.
Skill system with skill cap and symbolic leveling. By symbolic, I mean it wouldn't affect your aiming but rather: what you can use, how often your weapon will get jammed, how fast it will fall apart, how fast you will reload.
Full loot and pvp, but with environment so harsh that people will think twice before they will shoot you in your back. People will be forced to cooperate to boost their survival chances, however still make tough choices/ Should I help my wounded friend and risk spending a night away from a safe place or leave him behind and reach a survival base on the top of ruined sky scraper ? Should I try to find antibiotics/anti-rad medicine from near for my sick friend or let him die so I can take his water, shiny M-16 with plenty of ammo ?
One character per server, inherited surname for all your next characters ( so your good and bad deeds will always follow you ), perma death - oh yes I know that so many of you are scared now but that's a most for survival horror.
The last feature would be the ultimate survival goal: making yourself a child in a friendly village. So each time when you die you pass yourself a part of your skills to get a easier start each time when you die ( of course with some limits ). If you fail with it you start again as random survivalist somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
hideo kojima and shinji mikami(metal gear and resident evil creators) had this idea
"The zombie idea I have is a bit different. Imagine a large town where half the inhabitants are zombies. Users would subscribe, get inside the town and get bitten. At that stage they become undead and can't control their character - all they can do is modify the camera angles... They'd see their character attacking humans and have to pay just to watch! The only way they could end it is by opening another account, hunting themselves down and killing themselves. Of course, the problem is that your second character can get bitten as well."
now part of that, is an intresting idea. other then possibly needing a second account to deal with it, but if you had several character slots per server, then it would be pretty cool, if you lost one due to turning, and had to hunt yourself down, in order to get that slot back. it would also be cool, to log in, and see what your zombie was doing. but that would bring up an intresting idea, persistence. could we have an mmo in which all our characters, are always in the world. making logging out one of the most important things to consider.
now i would like to see two things taken from SWG and tabula rasa for a survival mmo. SWG i would want city building. you may have to give the player options to convert buildings into villages and safe havens, and also give players the option to build walls and structures, in the wild, and create there own little towns. you could place walls, defense structures for sniping, pouring boiled oil, launch flaming arrows, and under the right circumstances, prehaps you've found a military depot, and you have access to flamethrowers or m60 mounted rifles, things like that. now, the second part to that, i'd like seen, is from tabula rasa, but a little more extreme. all safe havens, from player build areas, to the static npc havens, can be over run.
what would happen, is the more people holed up in the area, the more zombies would spawn in said area. in fact, those little quests to kill x amount of zombies, would increase in amount, the fewer done. every area would have a zombie meter, with the red zone, being decided on a few things, namely, the size of said outpost, and the other major factor, would be the defenses of the outposts. if not enough kill quests are being done, the meter rises, when it enters the red zone, a five minute counter would appear, if not enough players get out there to deal with the zombie horde, they over run the outpost, and you have to fight inside your town to keep it from being overrun. if you fail, the zombies keep it, and other players have the chance to move into your place, while your regrouping.
i also think it should be full pvp with looting, and it has to be a skill system like swg.... not darkfall. i have more ideas... i've been thinking about this kind of mmo for awhile....
First of all Fallen Earth isn't even close to being what the article was about, sure hope you read the whole thing.
Earthrise I am not sure on as I have not played it.
But I'd love to see a MMO like this - a TRUE survival horror MMO.