Because Blizzard is utterly incapable of balancing the classes they already have.
A pity the data results of competitive Arena matches show every class can go to TOP 10 rating worldwide.
The fact that EVERY class can be played to the absolute top of the world ratings show your statement is meaningless.
As long as Arena results are datamined, you are up with your back against the walls with this one....
))) LOL
You just really have no idea do you? This is almost as dumb as your argument that if more WoW players use xfire it automatically means they're new subscribers even though you cannot prove just because someone is using xfire for the first time that they are a new player.
Just because there is 1 warlock/hunter in the top 100, compared to 25 druids/dk doesnt mean arena is balanced.
I'm guessing you've never played an arena game in your life. Would be hard being an old, keyboard turning clicker. But if you went dk/druid hell, even you could hit 2k, zorndorf.
But if you really want to impress me get a mage/priest to 2.2k. Show me how balanced arena really is.
And you never answered my questions about RMP in 3v3 in a previous post.
Do you even play WoW, zorndorf? Because some of the stuff you write would indicate you dont.
Blizzard already have 10 classes which have been dumbed down to 4 generic classes with the same abilities. You have tank, healer melee dps and ranged dps.
The only unique thing in classes in WoW these days are the models and different textures. Blizzard could add 50 more classes it wouldnt matter since they would just fit into the 4 generic modes they have.
Look at what they've done to the warlock class. As someone who started his/her warlock pre patch 1.6 (warlock talent and ability review) the warlock of today bears very very little resemblence to the original warlock.
It TBC you were forced to go 0/21/40 and basically becoame a shadow mage spamming one button over and over and over and occasially throwing in a life tap.
In Wrath of the Lame King affliction started off strong with a great rotation. If you nailed your rotation you would do insane DPS. But NO said idiotcrawler. WoW players are too stupid to push more than 3 buttons on their keyboards and affliction was "simplified" (ie nerfed).
And back to spamming a couple of buttons as destruction ... but this time as a fire mage!
Forgive the quote box that isn't quoting anything... I had written a response here before that I later realized had already been mentioned, and after erasing it all, the quote box stayed, I couldn't get rid of it, and couldn't get the cursor out of the box... I'm not normally such a forum n00b, but meh. I guess the best I can say concerning lack of new classes, is that classes are a nightmare to balance (especially in PvP; if PvP played a lesser role like FFXI it would probably not be quite as big a deal), and the classes that are already there already fill all the core roles, and then some, with insane overlap due to talents. I'm a class junkie too, but it's just difficult to implement here. Unless you want them to split every class into an alliance version and a horde version with different names and very subtle differences until the last 10 levels like EQ2 did. But I don't think you want that.
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]" (Wikipedia.org, 8-24-09)
Anyone who has seen my posts can tell you that I'm usually the first to line up when it comes time to criticize WoW, but this time I feel I have to offer a bit of defense.
The balancing of classes is so fucking difficult, and many of you just don't seem to appreciate that. It's a never ending, truly impossible task. Blizzard does the best they can, they are constantly tweaking, trying to bring balance.
Personally, i'd like to see them enable Cross-Classes... of course, the balancing would be even harder.
There is the whole thing about "It would be difficult to balance a new class with others", but it also looks like they're trying to revamp the current mechanics so they scale out and balance now.
Because Blizzard is utterly incapable of balancing the classes they already have.
A pity the data results of competitive Arena matches show every class can go to TOP 10 rating worldwide.
The fact that EVERY class can be played to the absolute top of the world ratings show your statement is meaningless.
As long as Arena results are datamined, you are up with your back against the walls with this one....
))) LOL
Really? There is equal representation of every spec of every class in the Top 10 arena ratings world wide? Thats amazing! And completely false. It appears you are the one with your back against the wall, blinders on, and no leg to stand on.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Because Blizzard is utterly incapable of balancing the classes they already have.
A pity the data results of competitive Arena matches show every class can go to TOP 10 rating worldwide.
The fact that EVERY class can be played to the absolute top of the world ratings show your statement is meaningless.
As long as Arena results are datamined, you are up with your back against the walls with this one....
))) LOL
Really? There is equal representation of every spec of every class in the Top 10 arena ratings world wide? Thats amazing! And completely false. It appears you are the one with your back against the wall, blinders on, and no leg to stand on.
It's impossible to have equal representantion of every class even if they were perfectly balanced, tastes differ.
Because Blizzard is utterly incapable of balancing the classes they already have.
A pity the data results of competitive Arena matches show every class can go to TOP 10 rating worldwide.
The fact that EVERY class can be played to the absolute top of the world ratings show your statement is meaningless.
As long as Arena results are datamined, you are up with your back against the walls with this one....
))) LOL
Really? There is equal representation of every spec of every class in the Top 10 arena ratings world wide? Thats amazing! And completely false. It appears you are the one with your back against the wall, blinders on, and no leg to stand on.
It's impossible to have equal representantion of every class even if they were perfectly balanced, tastes differ.
That would be fine if they were actually perfectly balanced. They aren't. The reason some specs aren't represented isn't because of different tastes, but because the spec isn't viable at all. Which leads right back to my main point that Blizzard is incapable of balancing their classes, and adding more isn't going to help this.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Originally posted by SonofSeth It's impossible to have equal representantion of every class even if they were perfectly balanced, tastes differ.
That would be fine if they were actually perfectly balanced. They aren't. The reason some specs aren't represented isn't because of different tastes, but because the spec isn't viable at all. Which leads right back to my main point that Blizzard is incapable of balancing their classes, and adding more isn't going to help this.
Ok, let me ask you this then; what exactly do you mean by balancing classes?
Do you mean PVE or PVP? Do you mean balanced based on equal tier of gear. Talent choice (healing tree versus dps tree?) or level range (10-19, 70-79) or just max level? Enchants, gems....?
Because Blizzard is utterly incapable of balancing the classes they already have.
WINNER
Name a game that actualloy can balance classes for all aspects of the game. WOW has solo questing, small group, large groups, small group pvp, large group pvp... etc.. balancing 27 specs for 5 different aspects of the game is impossible.
Of course WOW could do like other games and add classes that are exactly the same as other classes, with a different name.
Heck, in WOW, I have a druid, and I can do 4 completely different things with him. Games like warhammer have classes that are more similar than my druid is with itself
Originally posted by Alandora Originally posted by logangregor
Originally posted by Abrahmm Because Blizzard is utterly incapable of balancing the classes they already have.
WINNER
Name a game that actualloy can balance classes for all aspects of the game. WOW has solo questing, small group, large groups, small group pvp, large group pvp... etc.. balancing 27 specs for 5 different aspects of the game is impossible. Of course WOW could do like other games and add classes that are exactly the same as other classes, with a different name. Heck, in WOW, I have a druid, and I can do 4 completely different things with him. Games like warhammer have classes that are more similar than my druid is with itself
Other games? Youve played other mmos? Please do tell.
The only way wow has tried to balance the game is by giving everyone everything.
Everyone can heal, everyone can cc, everyone can dps. Thats not balance btw.
WoW has ten classes. Each class has three talent trees. Each talent tree either changes that classes role (tank,healer, Dps) or the way that class fills its main role.
That's 30 class combinations. With the exception of a Monk blizzard covered most of the classes in mmos through talent specs.
Just think about it, in a game like EQ2 they would split the Blizzard version of the warlock into three classes. So I can see why Blizzard chooses not to add many classes. Ten is enough.
Even if you think about more heroic classes they would basically just replace existing ones? Demon hunter is basically a Hunter/Rogue/Warlock combo that would kill the classes it copies. Same for the Archmage (Healer/Caster Hybrid).
Unless blizzard gives us a Monk we have no place for another class.
Anyone who has seen my posts can tell you that I'm usually the first to line up when it comes time to criticize WoW, but this time I feel I have to offer a bit of defense. The balancing of classes is so fucking difficult, and many of you just don't seem to appreciate that. It's a never ending, truly impossible task. Blizzard does the best they can, they are constantly tweaking, trying to bring balance. Personally, i'd like to see them enable Cross-Classes... of course, the balancing would be even harder.
So why make a tiny 2v2 multiplayer mode called Arena? And lets not kid ourselves. 2v2 arena is by FAAAAAAAAAAAR the most popular arena bracket. Theres more people in 2v2 than 3v3 and 5v5 combined.
I agree its impossible to balance 10 (9 when arena came out) in 2v2 arena. Why couldnt Blizzard work that out?
After patch the last major patch for classic WoW which also contained the rogue class review (1.12) WoW appeared to be the most balanced it ever was. Partly due to their being no Arena.
Because Blizzard is utterly incapable of balancing the classes they already have.
WINNER
Name a game that actualloy can balance classes for all aspects of the game. WOW has solo questing, small group, large groups, small group pvp, large group pvp... etc.. balancing 27 specs for 5 different aspects of the game is impossible.
Of course WOW could do like other games and add classes that are exactly the same as other classes, with a different name.
Heck, in WOW, I have a druid, and I can do 4 completely different things with him. Games like warhammer have classes that are more similar than my druid is with itself
Other games? Youve played other mmos? Please do tell.
The only way wow has tried to balance the game is by giving everyone everything.
Everyone can heal, everyone can cc, everyone can dps.
Thats not balance btw.
Welcome to World of Blandcraft. Where everything is twice more generic!
Unfortunately people have worked out how to get what they want in WoW. Get onto the general forums and scream "I'M A CASUAL AND PAY $15 AND I DEMAND BLIZZARD GIVE ME X Y Z"
And re-post it everyday. Blizzard will cave in after a few weeks.
WOW's class system is garbage. The largest MMO in history only has nine classes to choose from, what a joke. This coming from someone who spent years playing L2 where every third character looks exactly the same.
They should scrap the class system altogether and go skill based. Take those 3 skilltrees per class, throw classes out the window, and let any character spec into any of them.
As for balancing... Balancing is always a work in progress no matter what the game, who the developer. But keep in mind this is Blizzard, the deepest pockets in the genre (if not all of gaming) - if their dev team can't balance for shit, fire them and hire people who can.
As much as I agree a new class would extend the lasting novelty of the new expansion for long time players (to maybe a month instead of a week), I'm guessing they want to avoid as much of a balancing fiasco as the introduction of the dk brought (things still aren't near balanced).
Blizz could come up with new classes for years if they wanted, but it wouldn't address the underlying problems with the game that make it go stale after a certain point. No matter what class or race you play, it's going to come down to the same gear grind in the same 1-3 raid instances that you'll make yourself sick of, just to have your progress removed at the next patch/expansion.
If blizz kept the cap at only 85 to save room, that just means you're looking at up to 4 more upsets before they leave the game to die at level 100 unless they drastically overhaul how character progression works.
Blizzard as no aversion to new classes, they have aversion to actually have to work and you see, balancing classes is hard work, and they dont seem very good at it either...
ABout the expansion, as a lvl 80 in 5 characters and a former player since i have my account canceled, this doesnt even make me think to come back, for us max lvl's the new content doesnt mean squat, since i would have to lvl 5 levels and the lower zones can be very nice to visit once or twice but thats it, and not a chance that im leveling more alts, I have 5 alts out of boredom and for me thats it.
WOW's class system is garbage. The largest MMO in history only has nine classes to choose from, what a joke. This coming from someone who spent years playing L2 where every third character looks exactly the same. They should scrap the class system altogether and go skill based. Take those 3 skilltrees per class, throw classes out the window, and let any character spec into any of them. As for balancing... Balancing is always a work in progress no matter what the game, who the developer. But keep in mind this is Blizzard, the deepest pockets in the genre (if not all of gaming) - if their dev team can't balance for shit, fire them and hire people who can.
I take it you havent played WoW recently. Those nine (10 since Wrath of the Lame King) have all been given the same abilities.
Remember when they were planning on giving shamans a Mortal Strike totem? Yeah, it never made it off the PTR. This was after aimed shot for hunters was given a mortal strike debuff and wound poison buffed for rogues. But it just goes to show you that Blizzard's solution to balancing is just take the strengths of other classes and give it to the others.
A class is weak in arena?! Give them a mortal strike debuff. They only stopped when even the fanbois started laughing at them.
Originally posted by logangregorOther games? Youve played other mmos? Please do tell. The only way wow has tried to balance the game is by giving everyone everything. Everyone can heal, everyone can cc, everyone can dps.
Thats not balance btw.
What is balance then? I play only WoW so I don't know any better, please explain to me how proper balancing works, really, I want to know.
Not everyone can heal, wariors, rogues, mages, hunters, death nights can't heal, they can just bandage.
Originally posted by SonofSeth It's impossible to have equal representantion of every class even if they were perfectly balanced, tastes differ.
That would be fine if they were actually perfectly balanced. They aren't. The reason some specs aren't represented isn't because of different tastes, but because the spec isn't viable at all. Which leads right back to my main point that Blizzard is incapable of balancing their classes, and adding more isn't going to help this.
Ok, let me ask you this then; what exactly do you mean by balancing classes?
Do you mean PVE or PVP? Do you mean balanced based on equal tier of gear. Talent choice (healing tree versus dps tree?) or level range (10-19, 70-79) or just max level? Enchants, gems....?
Please explain.
PvP balance as PvE balance isn't as directly measurable. Look at it this way, when I played back in Season 2 and 3, I played a druid. I wasn't necessary fond of Arenas, but Blizzard push them as the primary PvP setting as the best PvP gear was available through arenas. This means that all of Blizzard's PvP balancing has to be centered around arenas as that is the main avenue of advancement, and it means I am forced to play arenas in order to be able to compete in other areas of PvP.
In Arenas, usually only one spec of a class was actually viable in arenas. That is terrible balancing. Each spec should have the ability to compete on nearly the same levels. I played a Feral druid, but in S2 and S3, Resto druids were the spec to be in arena, and feral was a joke.
That is terrible balance. If you provide 3 unique talent trees, they should all be viable. That is why I say Blizzard is incapable of balancing classes.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Originally posted by SonofSeth It's impossible to have equal representantion of every class even if they were perfectly balanced, tastes differ.
That would be fine if they were actually perfectly balanced. They aren't. The reason some specs aren't represented isn't because of different tastes, but because the spec isn't viable at all. Which leads right back to my main point that Blizzard is incapable of balancing their classes, and adding more isn't going to help this.
Ok, let me ask you this then; what exactly do you mean by balancing classes?
Do you mean PVE or PVP? Do you mean balanced based on equal tier of gear. Talent choice (healing tree versus dps tree?) or level range (10-19, 70-79) or just max level? Enchants, gems....?
Please explain.
PvP balance as PvE balance isn't as directly measurable. Look at it this way, when I played back in Season 2 and 3, I played a druid. I wasn't necessary fond of Arenas, but Blizzard push them as the primary PvP setting as the best PvP gear was available through arenas. This means that all of Blizzard's PvP balancing has to be centered around arenas as that is the main avenue of advancement, and it means I am forced to play arenas in order to be able to compete in other areas of PvP.
In Arenas, usually only one spec of a class was actually viable in arenas. That is terrible balancing. Each spec should have the ability to compete on nearly the same levels. I played a Feral druid, but in S2 and S3, Resto druids were the spec to be in arena, and feral was a joke.
That is terrible balance. If you provide 3 unique talent trees, they should all be viable. That is why I say Blizzard is incapable of balancing classes.
To me that sounds alot like dumbing it down. Choices in your talents and gear is in large part a strategical choice. What would be strategic about every spec beeing best for your choice of gameplay?
I think the same about PVP, rock paper scissors maybe isn't the best possible way to balance classes, but I like how you have to actively think and choose your fights if you want to do good in BGs.
Arenas are great if you like it, you don't, that's ok. I had the same problem with vanilla because I didn't want to spec PVE and get resistance gear to be able to raid so I quit. Now I don't have to raid to get gear, it's good.
Healing tree should never be as good at dps as dps tree, it should be good at healing and runing away.
It's about choices, you choose to play a class and you choose to play that class as best as you can. No matter how good you are, there will be someone doing it better and having no problem with balancing. You say not having all trees viable is poor balance, but all trees are viable, it's just they are viable for diferent things.
I would still like to hear more about how you envision this balance you speak of without making all classes the same.
The OFFICIAL arena tournaments are made up of 3vs3 I just took the top 10 teams of 3vs3 of the world. In that top 10:....you find all 10 classes represented. http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/team/3/all/all/all/all/ That's AWESOME. The joke is that the least represented is ... the DK (laughs here). -------> So If ALL classes can be top dog.... it simply means YOUR played class is up there (and the reason you are NOT, is because your eye hand coordination is simply not good enough to beat the champs in PvP). Your lesser skill outweighs the balance Blizzard puts in the game .... ----> Talking about indiviual talent settings in those classes (talent specs ) is shit. Because with the dual spec that's not even an argument these days. ------> Like GC said in an interview: Blizzard not only looks at the top rated rankings they ALSO do the datamining on the middle and lower rankings, and so sometimes they even intervene when they see classes doing too good in the lower brackets (hence the Paladin retri nerves for the lower brackets (meaning lesser skilled people pushing buttons and doing macro burst damage). Now go play those so called PvP games without datamining. And discuss balance there .... OOOPS, You can't because of .... no data.
You provide a link saying how 1 combo, RMP, DOMINATES 3v3 and say WoW is balanced. Maybe its because you're old and old people are bad at computer games, but you just have no clue its mind boggling.
The OFFICIAL arena tournaments are made up of 3vs3 I just took the top 10 teams of 3vs3 of the world. In that top 10:....you find all 10 classes represented. http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/team/3/all/all/all/all/ That's AWESOME. The joke is that the least represented is ... the DK (laughs here). -------> So If ALL classes can be top dog.... it simply means YOUR played class is up there (and the reason you are NOT, is because your eye hand coordination is simply not good enough to beat the champs in PvP). Your lesser skill outweighs the balance Blizzard puts in the game .... ----> Talking about indiviual talent settings in those classes (talent specs ) is shit. Because with the dual spec that's not even an argument these days. ------> Like GC said in an interview: Blizzard not only looks at the top rated rankings they ALSO do the datamining on the middle and lower rankings, and so sometimes they even intervene when they see classes doing too good in the lower brackets (hence the Paladin retri nerves for the lower brackets (meaning lesser skilled people pushing buttons and doing macro burst damage). Now go play those so called PvP games without datamining. And discuss balance there .... OOOPS, You can't because of .... no data.
You provide a link saying how 1 combo, RMP, DOMINATES 3v3 and say WoW is balanced. Maybe its because you're old and old people are bad at computer games, but you just have no clue its mind boggling.
You make a slanderous accusation but fail to "provide a link" to back up your naive accusation.
The brilliance of youth never ceases to be intertaining.
The OFFICIAL arena tournaments are made up of 3vs3 I just took the top 10 teams of 3vs3 of the world. In that top 10:....you find all 10 classes represented. http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/team/3/all/all/all/all/ That's AWESOME. The joke is that the least represented is ... the DK (laughs here). -------> So If ALL classes can be top dog.... it simply means YOUR played class is up there (and the reason you are NOT, is because your eye hand coordination is simply not good enough to beat the champs in PvP). Your lesser skill outweighs the balance Blizzard puts in the game .... ----> Talking about indiviual talent settings in those classes (talent specs ) is shit. Because with the dual spec that's not even an argument these days. ------> Like GC said in an interview: Blizzard not only looks at the top rated rankings they ALSO do the datamining on the middle and lower rankings, and so sometimes they even intervene when they see classes doing too good in the lower brackets (hence the Paladin retri nerves for the lower brackets (meaning lesser skilled people pushing buttons and doing macro burst damage). Now go play those so called PvP games without datamining. And discuss balance there .... OOOPS, You can't because of .... no data.
You provide a link saying how 1 combo, RMP, DOMINATES 3v3 and say WoW is balanced. Maybe its because you're old and old people are bad at computer games, but you just have no clue its mind boggling.
You make a slanderous accusation but fail to "provide a link" to back up your naive accusation.
The brilliance of youth never ceases to be intertaining.
I used the link Zorndorf provided.
Do you enjoy making yourself look like an ignorant idiot. Oh, wait. Thats why you play WoW.
Hell, you probably dont (like zorndorf, templarga and coffee) understand what I mean by RMP.
Comments
A pity the data results of competitive Arena matches show every class can go to TOP 10 rating worldwide.
The fact that EVERY class can be played to the absolute top of the world ratings show your statement is meaningless.
As long as Arena results are datamined, you are up with your back against the walls with this one....
You just really have no idea do you? This is almost as dumb as your argument that if more WoW players use xfire it automatically means they're new subscribers even though you cannot prove just because someone is using xfire for the first time that they are a new player.
Just because there is 1 warlock/hunter in the top 100, compared to 25 druids/dk doesnt mean arena is balanced.
I'm guessing you've never played an arena game in your life. Would be hard being an old, keyboard turning clicker. But if you went dk/druid hell, even you could hit 2k, zorndorf.
But if you really want to impress me get a mage/priest to 2.2k. Show me how balanced arena really is.
And you never answered my questions about RMP in 3v3 in a previous post.
Do you even play WoW, zorndorf? Because some of the stuff you write would indicate you dont.
Blizzard already have 10 classes which have been dumbed down to 4 generic classes with the same abilities. You have tank, healer melee dps and ranged dps.
The only unique thing in classes in WoW these days are the models and different textures. Blizzard could add 50 more classes it wouldnt matter since they would just fit into the 4 generic modes they have.
Look at what they've done to the warlock class. As someone who started his/her warlock pre patch 1.6 (warlock talent and ability review) the warlock of today bears very very little resemblence to the original warlock.
It TBC you were forced to go 0/21/40 and basically becoame a shadow mage spamming one button over and over and over and occasially throwing in a life tap.
In Wrath of the Lame King affliction started off strong with a great rotation. If you nailed your rotation you would do insane DPS. But NO said idiotcrawler. WoW players are too stupid to push more than 3 buttons on their keyboards and affliction was "simplified" (ie nerfed).
And back to spamming a couple of buttons as destruction ... but this time as a fire mage!
Now thats progession.
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]" (Wikipedia.org, 8-24-09)
The best way to deal with trolls:
http://www.angelfire.com/space/usenet/ [IGNORE THEM, THEY JUST WANT ATTENTION!]
Anyone who has seen my posts can tell you that I'm usually the first to line up when it comes time to criticize WoW, but this time I feel I have to offer a bit of defense.
The balancing of classes is so fucking difficult, and many of you just don't seem to appreciate that. It's a never ending, truly impossible task. Blizzard does the best they can, they are constantly tweaking, trying to bring balance.
Personally, i'd like to see them enable Cross-Classes... of course, the balancing would be even harder.
There is the whole thing about "It would be difficult to balance a new class with others", but it also looks like they're trying to revamp the current mechanics so they scale out and balance now.
Groovy.
A pity the data results of competitive Arena matches show every class can go to TOP 10 rating worldwide.
The fact that EVERY class can be played to the absolute top of the world ratings show your statement is meaningless.
As long as Arena results are datamined, you are up with your back against the walls with this one....
Really? There is equal representation of every spec of every class in the Top 10 arena ratings world wide? Thats amazing! And completely false. It appears you are the one with your back against the wall, blinders on, and no leg to stand on.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
A pity the data results of competitive Arena matches show every class can go to TOP 10 rating worldwide.
The fact that EVERY class can be played to the absolute top of the world ratings show your statement is meaningless.
As long as Arena results are datamined, you are up with your back against the walls with this one....
Really? There is equal representation of every spec of every class in the Top 10 arena ratings world wide? Thats amazing! And completely false. It appears you are the one with your back against the wall, blinders on, and no leg to stand on.
It's impossible to have equal representantion of every class even if they were perfectly balanced, tastes differ.
A pity the data results of competitive Arena matches show every class can go to TOP 10 rating worldwide.
The fact that EVERY class can be played to the absolute top of the world ratings show your statement is meaningless.
As long as Arena results are datamined, you are up with your back against the walls with this one....
Really? There is equal representation of every spec of every class in the Top 10 arena ratings world wide? Thats amazing! And completely false. It appears you are the one with your back against the wall, blinders on, and no leg to stand on.
It's impossible to have equal representantion of every class even if they were perfectly balanced, tastes differ.
That would be fine if they were actually perfectly balanced. They aren't. The reason some specs aren't represented isn't because of different tastes, but because the spec isn't viable at all. Which leads right back to my main point that Blizzard is incapable of balancing their classes, and adding more isn't going to help this.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
WINNER
That would be fine if they were actually perfectly balanced. They aren't. The reason some specs aren't represented isn't because of different tastes, but because the spec isn't viable at all. Which leads right back to my main point that Blizzard is incapable of balancing their classes, and adding more isn't going to help this.
Ok, let me ask you this then; what exactly do you mean by balancing classes?
Do you mean PVE or PVP? Do you mean balanced based on equal tier of gear. Talent choice (healing tree versus dps tree?) or level range (10-19, 70-79) or just max level? Enchants, gems....?
Please explain.
WINNER
Name a game that actualloy can balance classes for all aspects of the game. WOW has solo questing, small group, large groups, small group pvp, large group pvp... etc.. balancing 27 specs for 5 different aspects of the game is impossible.
Of course WOW could do like other games and add classes that are exactly the same as other classes, with a different name.
Heck, in WOW, I have a druid, and I can do 4 completely different things with him. Games like warhammer have classes that are more similar than my druid is with itself
WINNER
Name a game that actualloy can balance classes for all aspects of the game. WOW has solo questing, small group, large groups, small group pvp, large group pvp... etc.. balancing 27 specs for 5 different aspects of the game is impossible.
Of course WOW could do like other games and add classes that are exactly the same as other classes, with a different name.
Heck, in WOW, I have a druid, and I can do 4 completely different things with him. Games like warhammer have classes that are more similar than my druid is with itself
Other games? Youve played other mmos? Please do tell.
The only way wow has tried to balance the game is by giving everyone everything.
Everyone can heal, everyone can cc, everyone can dps.
Thats not balance btw.
WoW has ten classes. Each class has three talent trees. Each talent tree either changes that classes role (tank,healer, Dps) or the way that class fills its main role.
That's 30 class combinations. With the exception of a Monk blizzard covered most of the classes in mmos through talent specs.
Just think about it, in a game like EQ2 they would split the Blizzard version of the warlock into three classes. So I can see why Blizzard chooses not to add many classes. Ten is enough.
Even if you think about more heroic classes they would basically just replace existing ones? Demon hunter is basically a Hunter/Rogue/Warlock combo that would kill the classes it copies. Same for the Archmage (Healer/Caster Hybrid).
Unless blizzard gives us a Monk we have no place for another class.
Playing: WoW, EvE
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So why make a tiny 2v2 multiplayer mode called Arena? And lets not kid ourselves. 2v2 arena is by FAAAAAAAAAAAR the most popular arena bracket. Theres more people in 2v2 than 3v3 and 5v5 combined.
I agree its impossible to balance 10 (9 when arena came out) in 2v2 arena. Why couldnt Blizzard work that out?
After patch the last major patch for classic WoW which also contained the rogue class review (1.12) WoW appeared to be the most balanced it ever was. Partly due to their being no Arena.
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Name a game that actualloy can balance classes for all aspects of the game. WOW has solo questing, small group, large groups, small group pvp, large group pvp... etc.. balancing 27 specs for 5 different aspects of the game is impossible.
Of course WOW could do like other games and add classes that are exactly the same as other classes, with a different name.
Heck, in WOW, I have a druid, and I can do 4 completely different things with him. Games like warhammer have classes that are more similar than my druid is with itself
Other games? Youve played other mmos? Please do tell.
The only way wow has tried to balance the game is by giving everyone everything.
Everyone can heal, everyone can cc, everyone can dps.
Thats not balance btw.
Welcome to World of Blandcraft. Where everything is twice more generic!
Unfortunately people have worked out how to get what they want in WoW. Get onto the general forums and scream "I'M A CASUAL AND PAY $15 AND I DEMAND BLIZZARD GIVE ME X Y Z"
And re-post it everyday. Blizzard will cave in after a few weeks.
WOW's class system is garbage. The largest MMO in history only has nine classes to choose from, what a joke. This coming from someone who spent years playing L2 where every third character looks exactly the same.
They should scrap the class system altogether and go skill based. Take those 3 skilltrees per class, throw classes out the window, and let any character spec into any of them.
As for balancing... Balancing is always a work in progress no matter what the game, who the developer. But keep in mind this is Blizzard, the deepest pockets in the genre (if not all of gaming) - if their dev team can't balance for shit, fire them and hire people who can.
As much as I agree a new class would extend the lasting novelty of the new expansion for long time players (to maybe a month instead of a week), I'm guessing they want to avoid as much of a balancing fiasco as the introduction of the dk brought (things still aren't near balanced).
Blizz could come up with new classes for years if they wanted, but it wouldn't address the underlying problems with the game that make it go stale after a certain point. No matter what class or race you play, it's going to come down to the same gear grind in the same 1-3 raid instances that you'll make yourself sick of, just to have your progress removed at the next patch/expansion.
If blizz kept the cap at only 85 to save room, that just means you're looking at up to 4 more upsets before they leave the game to die at level 100 unless they drastically overhaul how character progression works.
Blizzard as no aversion to new classes, they have aversion to actually have to work and you see, balancing classes is hard work, and they dont seem very good at it either...
ABout the expansion, as a lvl 80 in 5 characters and a former player since i have my account canceled, this doesnt even make me think to come back, for us max lvl's the new content doesnt mean squat, since i would have to lvl 5 levels and the lower zones can be very nice to visit once or twice but thats it, and not a chance that im leveling more alts, I have 5 alts out of boredom and for me thats it.
I take it you havent played WoW recently. Those nine (10 since Wrath of the Lame King) have all been given the same abilities.
Remember when they were planning on giving shamans a Mortal Strike totem? Yeah, it never made it off the PTR. This was after aimed shot for hunters was given a mortal strike debuff and wound poison buffed for rogues. But it just goes to show you that Blizzard's solution to balancing is just take the strengths of other classes and give it to the others.
A class is weak in arena?! Give them a mortal strike debuff. They only stopped when even the fanbois started laughing at them.
What is balance then? I play only WoW so I don't know any better, please explain to me how proper balancing works, really, I want to know.
Not everyone can heal, wariors, rogues, mages, hunters, death nights can't heal, they can just bandage.
That would be fine if they were actually perfectly balanced. They aren't. The reason some specs aren't represented isn't because of different tastes, but because the spec isn't viable at all. Which leads right back to my main point that Blizzard is incapable of balancing their classes, and adding more isn't going to help this.
Ok, let me ask you this then; what exactly do you mean by balancing classes?
Do you mean PVE or PVP? Do you mean balanced based on equal tier of gear. Talent choice (healing tree versus dps tree?) or level range (10-19, 70-79) or just max level? Enchants, gems....?
Please explain.
PvP balance as PvE balance isn't as directly measurable. Look at it this way, when I played back in Season 2 and 3, I played a druid. I wasn't necessary fond of Arenas, but Blizzard push them as the primary PvP setting as the best PvP gear was available through arenas. This means that all of Blizzard's PvP balancing has to be centered around arenas as that is the main avenue of advancement, and it means I am forced to play arenas in order to be able to compete in other areas of PvP.
In Arenas, usually only one spec of a class was actually viable in arenas. That is terrible balancing. Each spec should have the ability to compete on nearly the same levels. I played a Feral druid, but in S2 and S3, Resto druids were the spec to be in arena, and feral was a joke.
That is terrible balance. If you provide 3 unique talent trees, they should all be viable. That is why I say Blizzard is incapable of balancing classes.
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Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
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That would be fine if they were actually perfectly balanced. They aren't. The reason some specs aren't represented isn't because of different tastes, but because the spec isn't viable at all. Which leads right back to my main point that Blizzard is incapable of balancing their classes, and adding more isn't going to help this.
Ok, let me ask you this then; what exactly do you mean by balancing classes?
Do you mean PVE or PVP? Do you mean balanced based on equal tier of gear. Talent choice (healing tree versus dps tree?) or level range (10-19, 70-79) or just max level? Enchants, gems....?
Please explain.
PvP balance as PvE balance isn't as directly measurable. Look at it this way, when I played back in Season 2 and 3, I played a druid. I wasn't necessary fond of Arenas, but Blizzard push them as the primary PvP setting as the best PvP gear was available through arenas. This means that all of Blizzard's PvP balancing has to be centered around arenas as that is the main avenue of advancement, and it means I am forced to play arenas in order to be able to compete in other areas of PvP.
In Arenas, usually only one spec of a class was actually viable in arenas. That is terrible balancing. Each spec should have the ability to compete on nearly the same levels. I played a Feral druid, but in S2 and S3, Resto druids were the spec to be in arena, and feral was a joke.
That is terrible balance. If you provide 3 unique talent trees, they should all be viable. That is why I say Blizzard is incapable of balancing classes.
To me that sounds alot like dumbing it down. Choices in your talents and gear is in large part a strategical choice. What would be strategic about every spec beeing best for your choice of gameplay?
I think the same about PVP, rock paper scissors maybe isn't the best possible way to balance classes, but I like how you have to actively think and choose your fights if you want to do good in BGs.
Arenas are great if you like it, you don't, that's ok. I had the same problem with vanilla because I didn't want to spec PVE and get resistance gear to be able to raid so I quit. Now I don't have to raid to get gear, it's good.
Healing tree should never be as good at dps as dps tree, it should be good at healing and runing away.
It's about choices, you choose to play a class and you choose to play that class as best as you can. No matter how good you are, there will be someone doing it better and having no problem with balancing. You say not having all trees viable is poor balance, but all trees are viable, it's just they are viable for diferent things.
I would still like to hear more about how you envision this balance you speak of without making all classes the same.
You provide a link saying how 1 combo, RMP, DOMINATES 3v3 and say WoW is balanced. Maybe its because you're old and old people are bad at computer games, but you just have no clue its mind boggling.
You provide a link saying how 1 combo, RMP, DOMINATES 3v3 and say WoW is balanced. Maybe its because you're old and old people are bad at computer games, but you just have no clue its mind boggling.
You make a slanderous accusation but fail to "provide a link" to back up your naive accusation.
The brilliance of youth never ceases to be intertaining.
You provide a link saying how 1 combo, RMP, DOMINATES 3v3 and say WoW is balanced. Maybe its because you're old and old people are bad at computer games, but you just have no clue its mind boggling.
You make a slanderous accusation but fail to "provide a link" to back up your naive accusation.
The brilliance of youth never ceases to be intertaining.
I used the link Zorndorf provided.
Do you enjoy making yourself look like an ignorant idiot. Oh, wait. Thats why you play WoW.
Hell, you probably dont (like zorndorf, templarga and coffee) understand what I mean by RMP.
Quick. google it and get back to me.