If Star Wars Galaxies taught us anything, it is that nerd rage has a very long half-life. Then The Old Republic will launch and these same people will scream for it not being pre-NGE SWG, even though the developers never said it would be.
That REALLY worries me. As much as I loved the potential SWG had, I have no expectations of ToR. If anything, I expect it to be little more than another KotoR style game...Mass Effect style, Mass Effect 2 style...Bioware has a track record of making games I almost liked but hated because of the continual dialog and slow gameplay.
Going in with LOW expectations is probably advisable.
All in preference I guess. I'm sure there is a large group of people like you who aren't to interested in story. Last I heard story/dialogue will be about 10% of the game, meaning 90% will be killing/crafting/traveling/socializing. They will probably give you a way to skim through it and make choices, kill, save etc. Then get awarded your morality points, which as far as I know, go towards character progression in class skills.
I do agree with the OP though. While not "as it was" it isn't THAT bad right now. I still log in from time to time to run around a bit
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Because SOE as a company has proven itself on multiple occasions that they will eventually find a way to screw me.
Im not picking on you directly Darkbladed as your post had a constructed point of view but this line Ive left is alot of peoples gospel according to SOE
And if you look on SOE Mission statement point 5a - "Find various ways to screw customers, after all we dont need em!"
I don't think many, if any, are expecting the old republic to be pre-nge star wars. Hopefully bioware doesn't make the same or as many mistakes that soe has.
What I'm worried about is the comparisons. "Bah! ToR sux! PreCU SWG was better at _<insert something here>_" type of comments. It has nothing to do with Bioware. In fact, SoE can get most credit for the anticipation and hype ToR has gotten. Since the NGE there have been more rumors of Bioware making a preCU Star Wars than there have been NGE Jedi.
Few things in life live up to the expectations I feel ToR has (except for DVR's...they freaking ROCK!).
Originally posted by greed0104 All in preference I guess. I'm sure there is a large group of people like you who aren't to interested in story. Last I heard story/dialogue will be about 10% of the game, meaning 90% will be killing/crafting/traveling/socializing. They will probably give you a way to skim through it and make choices, kill, save etc. Then get awarded your morality points, which as far as I know, go towards character progression in class skills.
Because SOE as a company has proven itself on multiple occasions that they will eventually find a way to screw me.
Im not picking on you directly Darkbladed as your post had a constructed point of view but this line Ive left is alot of peoples gospel according to SOE
And if you look on SOE Mission statement point 5a - "Find various ways to screw customers, after all we dont need em!"
See the sense in that statement you made?
I love the references to SoE hate being "blind" in this thread. It's perfectly fine if you are enjoying a game produced by SoE, but don't condescend to former costumers as if their reasons for being so bitter are invalid. As a former Planetside player, it was neglected almost to the game breaking NGE level. This wasn't simply about a lack of content or updates, but their incompotency breaking the game for current subscribers. One patch came out that I, and hundreds of others, simply could no longer play the game without crashing and freezing due to a video card incompatability that didn't exist until the day after this patch. It took SoE 2 years (fully aware and admitted the problem on their forums) to fix what they had broken, by which I was more than fed up and moved on. The game is a shell of it's former self, the last listed updated is years ago on their own launcher.
To continue saying SoE hasn't, at the very least, shown a great deal of greed and incompotency over the years with NUMEROUS games is exactly what you're calling it; blind.
Originally posted by greed0104 All in preference I guess. I'm sure there is a large group of people like you who aren't to interested in story. Last I heard story/dialogue will be about 10% of the game, meaning 90% will be killing/crafting/traveling/socializing. They will probably give you a way to skim through it and make choices, kill, save etc. Then get awarded your morality points, which as far as I know, go towards character progression in class skills.
Originally posted by greed0104 All in preference I guess. I'm sure there is a large group of people like you who aren't to interested in story. Last I heard story/dialogue will be about 10% of the game, meaning 90% will be killing/crafting/traveling/socializing. They will probably give you a way to skim through it and make choices, kill, save etc. Then get awarded your morality points, which as far as I know, go towards character progression in class skills.
Huh. I kinda like that
Story or the idea? I'm confused : /
The fact that it's rumored to be only 10% story, 90% "stuff" I like "stuff".
Originally posted by greed0104 All in preference I guess. I'm sure there is a large group of people like you who aren't to interested in story. Last I heard story/dialogue will be about 10% of the game, meaning 90% will be killing/crafting/traveling/socializing. They will probably give you a way to skim through it and make choices, kill, save etc. Then get awarded your morality points, which as far as I know, go towards character progression in class skills.
Huh. I kinda like that
Story or the idea? I'm confused : /
The fact that it's rumored to be only 10% story, 90% "stuff" I like "stuff".
I can't remember what article it was on, but it was a recent one. And yes "stuff" is good.
Because SOE as a company has proven itself on multiple occasions that they will eventually find a way to screw me.
Im not picking on you directly Darkbladed as your post had a constructed point of view but this line Ive left is alot of peoples gospel according to SOE
And if you look on SOE Mission statement point 5a - "Find various ways to screw customers, after all we dont need em!"
See the sense in that statement you made?
Yet the folks at SOE have a history of acting in that exact manner. The way the folks at SOE treat their customers would make more sense if they honestly believed they didn't need customers to remain in business. The only thing that makes less sense than the actions of the folks at SOE is that there are as many people willing to be treated like an abused spouse by them as there seems to be.
Because SOE as a company has proven itself on multiple occasions that they will eventually find a way to screw me.
Im not picking on you directly Darkbladed as your post had a constructed point of view but this line Ive left is alot of peoples gospel according to SOE
And if you look on SOE Mission statement point 5a - "Find various ways to screw customers, after all we dont need em!"
See the sense in that statement you made?
Yet the folks at SOE have a history of acting in that exact manner. The way the folks at SOE treat their customers would make more sense if they honestly believed they didn't need customers to remain in business. The only thing that makes less sense than the actions of the folks at SOE is that there are as many people willing to be treated like an abused spouse by them as there seems to be.
If I had to guess what SOEs internal mission statement said it would be something along the lines of
5a "The current customers do not matter beyond funding our current needs and that funding will be obtained regardless of the outcome. The current customer will soon be replaced by many more future potential customers that will be attracted to our new revenue models".
Because SOE as a company has proven itself on multiple occasions that they will eventually find a way to screw me.
Im not picking on you directly Darkbladed as your post had a constructed point of view but this line Ive left is alot of peoples gospel according to SOE
And if you look on SOE Mission statement point 5a - "Find various ways to screw customers, after all we dont need em!"
See the sense in that statement you made?
Yet the folks at SOE have a history of acting in that exact manner. The way the folks at SOE treat their customers would make more sense if they honestly believed they didn't need customers to remain in business. The only thing that makes less sense than the actions of the folks at SOE is that there are as many people willing to be treated like an abused spouse by them as there seems to be.
If I had to guess what SOEs internal mission statement said it would be something along the lines of
5a "The current customers do not matter beyond funding our current needs and that funding will be obtained regardless of the outcome. The current customer will soon be replaced by many more future potential customers that will be attracted to our new revenue models".
My point really was more to say even with the planetside "dropping" they as a business simply wont of all sat down in a meeting an gone "right so we got this game what shall we do?" - "lets lose all our customers by doing X" - "great idea lets go with it"
So what im saying is people who post that SOE are around to make their lives hell - need to get a real one.
Soe are running a business we dont know all the inside stuff that goes on and sure theyve made mistakes but like I said "ive grown up" its time to stop bashing them for an event that happened years ago and an event that half of the people weren't actually part of who seem to whine.
It happened to us - trust me when i say we all made our voices heard at the time...oh boy did we
Originally posted by Gortz My point really was more to say even with the planetside "dropping" they as a business simply wont of all sat down in a meeting an gone "right so we got this game what shall we do?" - "lets lose all our customers by doing X" - "great idea lets go with it" So what im saying is people who post that SOE are around to make their lives hell - need to get a real one. Soe are running a business we dont know all the inside stuff that goes on and sure theyve made mistakes but like I said "ive grown up" its time to stop bashing them for an event that happened years ago and an event that half of the people weren't actually part of who seem to whine. It happened to us - trust me when i say we all made our voices heard at the time...oh boy did we
What makes you think soe has changed since that event years ago? This isn't some freak one time occurance and just because the NGE dwarfs everything else in total amount of stupidity that doesn't give the company a pass for everything that transpires between then and now.
Just go look at how they are handling the new loot cards in EQ2 HERE.
Notice the first words out of the community managers mouth.
"I know that this is a development that many are not going to be pleased with." -Kiara EQII community manager.
Soe knows their players are not going to like what they are doing, but here it comes anyway. You can see examples of this all over their games and the terminology is almost always the same. Simply put, this is how soe conducts their business.
Now before we get to "they are a business and need to make money", sure and that is true for every company making mmos. Yet you don't see other companies acting like soe does. So yes I do think they sit around board meetings and talk about what will make them the most money and they do in fact factor in how many players will quit as a result of their changes. Time and time again they have intentionally made decisions that they know would lose them some customers, but have the potential to make more money.
Strangely enough soe's marketshare has been falling like a meteor and even indi companies are getting bigger than the former king of the industry. It doesn't take to much effort to figure out why and the backlask from players is a result of how soe conducts themselves.
Believe it or not, the backlash towards soe is far greater than the nge.
I really liked EQ2 and please dont tell me theyve gone down the Card idea like SWG - i think it all started from the idea of diplomacy game in VG and those bubble gum cards style that wow do.
Again though Kiara is in that unfortunate position of having to break the new to the rest - its not techincally her fault mind.
But I was referrring to the NGE alone - my post was geared to that.
Its true SOE are not great at making decision but then people keep buying these crappy cards - so in effect it works.
Stop these muppets buying these cards in the first place.
Originally posted by Daffid011 "The current customers do not matter beyond funding our current needs and that funding will be obtained regardless of the outcome. The current customer will soon be replaced by many more future potential customers that will be attracted to our new revenue models".
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
Originally posted by Daffid011 "The current customers do not matter beyond funding our current needs and that funding will be obtained regardless of the outcome. The current customer will soon be replaced by many more future potential customers that will be attracted to our new revenue models".
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
All those things are still in the game just like before + lots of them are improved a lot. There are new houses too now. And you can even change color on the interior now. + Houses have windows.
Originally posted by Daffid011 "The current customers do not matter beyond funding our current needs and that funding will be obtained regardless of the outcome. The current customer will soon be replaced by many more future potential customers that will be attracted to our new revenue models".
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
All those things are still in the game just like before + lots of them are improved a lot. There are new houses too now. And you can even change color on the interior now. + Houses have windows.
Characters moves like before. Expertise brought back lots of old templates. Its still a elegant game far more complex than most. But lots of the added features have made the game a little easier for the beginner to get into.
What really strikes me when I read all theese "hate" posts. Is that the mentality (that i had too before, I have to admit that) of the persons is a shadow of the past. The flawed logic of the critisism has not changed since 2005 and days and weeks after NGE. Belive me that game has changed a lot and too the better . So an update on the stance bout how the game nees a serious update.
Forgive me for saying this. But the hate is getting a little old. And the arguments sounds like they were invented in 2005 at a time when they actually were right. They are not today.
I just wish that many haters would go back and see themselves. They would be surprised. Most "haters" that I know who have gone back have just had to admit they were wrong .. or right in 2005 but not in 2009.
I have to think you're not reading what people are saying. Did you see Daffid's quote from the EQ2 community manager about the game changes? The one where SOE knows that many people won't like the changes but they're going to do them anyways?
You realize that this is the attitude that drove many players away from SWG time and time again don't you? You see that they have the same attitude now?
You see that even if SWG has some new bells and whistles people don't want to do business with a company that's going to give them the shaft?
You read the comments about SOE breaking the video compatibility of one of their other games, admitting it, but not fixing it for 2 years didn't you? Since this is in another of their games, it's obviously not related to NGE rage.
Have you read how people feel about the recent TCG loot items in SWG? If you have, you'll realize that these are not "old" issues. They are current issues that seem to demonstrate the same attitude that has turned so many people away from SWG over and over again.
Btw, you also told people to go back to SWG because you can have more than one character per server, just like pre-cu. What are you talking about? Pre-cu, you could only have one character per server unless you unlocked a jedi. Did you play pre-cu, or did you forget this central feature of the game?
You also just posted somewhere telling people that Entertainer is so cool in SWG because you can heal Battle Fatigue. Did they bring Battle Fatigue and healing back?
You also claim just above that SWG characters move just like they used to. Are you serious? Did they slow the movement combat down to pre-cu speed and restore all of the missing animations and skills that all of the various professions had? What's your game telling people all of this stuff?
Originally posted by Daffid011 "The current customers do not matter beyond funding our current needs and that funding will be obtained regardless of the outcome. The current customer will soon be replaced by many more future potential customers that will be attracted to our new revenue models".
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
All those things are still in the game just like before + lots of them are improved a lot. There are new houses too now. And you can even change color on the interior now. + Houses have windows.
Characters moves like before. Expertise brought back lots of old templates. Its still a elegant game far more complex than most. But lots of the added features have made the game a little easier for the beginner to get into.
What really strikes me when I read all theese "hate" posts. Is that the mentality (that i had too before, I have to admit that) of the persons is a shadow of the past. The flawed logic of the critisism has not changed since 2005 and days and weeks after NGE. Belive me that game has changed a lot and too the better . So an update on the stance bout how the game nees a serious update.
Forgive me for saying this. But the hate is getting a little old. And the arguments sounds like they were invented in 2005 at a time when they actually were right. They are not today.
I just wish that many haters would go back and see themselves. They would be surprised. Most "haters" that I know who have gone back have just had to admit they were wrong .. or right in 2005 but not in 2009.
I have to think you're not reading what people are saying. Did you see Daffid's quote from the EQ2 community manager about the game changes? The one where SOE knows that many people won't like the changes but they're going to do them anyways?
I am not saying SOE is perfect. Far from it. But who are? And what they do to EQ2 does not interest me much as I am really pleased with what they have done to SWG. When urge is there to play fantasy theemed game I play LOTRonline or WOW.
And there are other companies in other branches of my life that worries me a lot more. Back to SWG. That game has improved big time. All that game needs now is better marketing. Its an amazing game today. (I never belived I would say anything like this.. but its the truth)
You realize that this is the attitude that drove many players away from SWG time and time again don't you? You see that they have the same attitude now?
I know.. but there is no doubtt that the attitude towards SWG is changing.. Just do a Youtube search and watch the SWG videos and read the comments. I was amazed myself discovering this.. but when I went back to the game. I understood why.
You see that even if SWG has some new bells and whistles people don't want to do business with a company that's going to give them the shaft?
The amount I pay for playing SWG every months is worth it. I get more angry if I order a pizza and discover that they have forgotten to put cheese on it.
You read the comments about SOE breaking the video compatibility of one of their other games, admitting it, but not fixing it for 2 years didn't you? Since this is in another of their games, it's obviously not related to NGE rage.
I don't know any details of this. I have had no problem running SWG on any of my 4 computers that are of different brands and age. So theese things do not worry me.
Have you read how people feel about the recent TCG loot items in SWG? If you have, you'll realize that these are not "old" issues. They are current issues that seem to demonstrate the same attitude that has turned so many people away from SWG over and over again.
Yes.. and it does not seem to be a big issue since its mostly fluff. The complains are not deep or serious. I don't think this is an issue at all. Everyone gets free items every month even if not playing the game. I just got some cool stuff for my houe and are happy. And as crafter everything I make is still in high demand. EQ2 is a different story though. But I am talking about SWG so I dont bother with EQ2. Never liked that game very much.
Btw, you also told people to go back to SWG because you can have more than one character per server, just like pre-cu. What are you talking about? Pre-cu, you could only have one character per server unless you unlocked a jedi. Did you play pre-cu, or did you forget this central feature of the game?
Oh yes. Played since December 2004 and untill NGE.
I am well aware that we only had one character before. I had several accounts due to that. What you point out is a result of my my clumsy englsih:
What I wrote:
Since you can respec your character, and have more than one character now (as pre CU).
What I mean = Since you can respec your character and unlike pre CU where you could only have one character you can NOW have more than one.
You also just posted somewhere telling people that Entertainer is so cool in SWG because you can heal Battle Fatigue. Did they bring Battle Fatigue and healing back?
What I tried to say is that entertainers are really nice because its a uniqu play style. I just love hanging in cantina giving buffs and chatting with people.
Back in the days, pre NGE, healing battle fatigue and giving your one buff and hoping for a tip while being really underdog compared to doctor was all you could do, I mean apart from socialising.
Today entertainers are even more "popular" than ever amongst other player because UNLIKE before with only battle fatigue healing and one buf.. entertainers today have more than 30 buffs to offer and a real UI where we can put in covercharge. AND since image designer, Dancer and Musician is merged the whole package is just more compleete. Its a really fun class.. but it will not appeal to everyone. But thos that it appeal too will not find such a unique class in any other game. period.
You also claim just above that SWG characters move just like they used to. Are you serious? Did they slow the movement combat down to pre-cu speed and restore all of the missing animations and skills that all of the various professions had? What's your game telling people all of this stuff?
What I am saying is that after NGE. I did not know how to move. Keybindings and stuff were so changed. Now old bindings are back in the game. Autotarget is an option and so on. The game moves like the old game. Many of the animations are back and there are also new.
Forgive me for asking. But have you played SWG recently? Because I can understand you if you played it before NGE and left directly after the changes. Game was broken after NGE. And in a horrible state. But its totally different ship today. Back then it would sink to the bottom. Today it can sail on every ocan there is and be a proud liner.
Yes the current game IS in better shape than even 2 years ago, however it still is the same system since Nov 2005. SOE has slowly been trying to chop away all the crafting and ingame economy and replacing it with loot and every new loot players asks for gets put into the TCG (they could have put the nightsister back pack into the Axkva Min loot table instead).
So it's pretty much SWG version 2.5 with TCG for loots.
Please don't hide behind calling out "hate posts" and blaming people for not trying swg. Fine if you like it, but I can already read the sacrfice in your words and attempting to shift the discussion to focus on the people disagreeing with you instead of their views is a cheap way out.
You say the trading card game loot cards are just fluff as if it has no impact on the game? Almost every single one of them represents an ability of a swg profession. That is not fluff, it is content that an entire professions is centered around creating, yet you dismiss it without even the slightest thought. To downplay the impact of soe putting more development effort into their loot cards than the actual games just tells me how far you have to go in order to "like" this game. You have to make sacrifices and lower standards.
As for trying the game, believe me there have been enough vet trials to stay current with what little the game has to offer. Is swg better than when the nge released, sure, but that isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. It has been almost 4 years, but I would not look at the progress of the game and be proud of it or think it was quality by any means. Every time I log in I am bombarded with buggy gameplay. Shadows of my avatar that pass through houses/mountains, mobs I cannot shoot that have no trouble shooting through walls at me, ridiculous run speed animations and that is just the first few minutes of gameplay. It is next to impossible to play this game smoothly and without something stupid breaking immersion. SWG just does not deliver a pleasent experience, because it is a hacked together piece of garbage. There is no excuse for a game of this age to be in the condition it is.
If you don't think my quote about EQ2 community manager admitting they know players will not like the changes and continuing to shove them down players throughs is a concern of yours, then go watch the SWG panel at fan faire. Here (check out around the 53:00 minute mark for a great example) Listen to the lead soe community manager and how dismissive she is of player concerns. When directly asked about the amount of content in the loot cards compared to the lack of content in the actual game (which is the ONLY time the crowd cheers in agreement with anything) the CRM response? "You are gonna hate one of the updates coming to the TCG as it has something ultimately cool". She ackowledges that it is "a source of frustration" and then cheerfully skips along totally ignoring the players concerns even saying "those rewards go to the people who pay". This is the public face of soe telling you "we know you don't like it, but there is more coming".
She displays what is very typical across every soe game from their leadership. A serious lack of concern towards players. She all but says 'yeah we know you hate the loot cards, but fuck you' and further admits the tcg is an issue in the other games that have it as well. The TCG is not a minor issue as you try to paint it.
Overall the problem with swg is not the players or people who opt to not play. There are millions of new mmo players that have never experienced the nge or soes special brand of treatment. Yet swg continues to wither up and die when it is in the middle of the biggest growth of the mmo genre.
If the game was so awesome then more people would play it. The awesome gameplay would hook all the people you can find demoing the game trial right now. They are there trying the game right now, but the game continues to decline. How much more clearly can it be stated that the gameplay is the flaw?
Blue, Please don't hide behind calling out "hate posts" and blaming people for not trying swg. Fine if you like it, but I can already read the sacrfice in your words and attempting to shift the discussion to focus on the people disagreeing with you instead of their views is a cheap way out. You say the trading card game loot cards are just fluff as if it has no impact on the game? Almost every single one of them represents an ability of a swg profession. That is not fluff, it is content that an entire professions is centered around creating, yet you dismiss it without even the slightest thought. To downplay the impact of soe putting more development effort into their loot cards than the actual games just tells me how far you have to go in order to "like" this game. You have to make sacrifices and lower standards. As for trying the game, believe me there have been enough vet trials to stay current with what little the game has to offer. Is swg better than when the nge released, sure, but that isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. It has been almost 4 years, but I would not look at the progress of the game and be proud of it or think it was quality by any means. Every time I log in I am bombarded with buggy gameplay. Shadows of my avatar that pass through houses/mountains, mobs I cannot shoot that have no trouble shooting through walls at me, ridiculous run speed animations and that is just the first few minutes of gameplay. It is next to impossible to play this game smoothly and without something stupid breaking immersion. SWG just does not deliver a pleasent experience, because it is a hacked together piece of garbage. There is no excuse for a game of this age to be in the condition it is. If you don't think my quote about EQ2 community manager admitting they know players will not like the changes and continuing to shove them down players throughs is a concern of yours, then go watch the SWG panel at fan faire. Here (check out around the 53:00 minute mark for a great example) Listen to the lead soe community manager and how dismissive she is of player concerns. When directly asked about the amount of content in the loot cards compared to the lack of content in the actual game (which is the ONLY time the crowd cheers in agreement with anything) the CRM response? "You are gonna hate one of the updates coming to the TCG as it has something ultimately cool". She ackowledges that it is "a source of frustration" and then cheerfully skips along totally ignoring the players concerns even saying "those rewards go to the people who pay". This is the public face of soe telling you "we know you don't like it, but there is more coming". She displays what is very typical across every soe game from their leadership. A serious lack of concern towards players. She all but says 'yeah we know you hate the loot cards, but fuck you' and further admits the tcg is an issue in the other games that have it as well. The TCG is not a minor issue as you try to paint it.
Overall the problem with swg is not the players or people who opt to not play. There are millions of new mmo players that have never experienced the nge or soes special brand of treatment. Yet swg continues to wither up and die when it is in the middle of the biggest growth of the mmo genre. If the game was so awesome then more people would play it. The awesome gameplay would hook all the people you can find demoing the game trial right now. They are there trying the game right now, but the game continues to decline. How much more clearly can it be stated that the gameplay is the flaw?
The ironic thing about SWG. Is that the people with the strongest opinions about that game are those that actually do not play it and with all respect towards them. They simply do not know what they are talking about any longer.
The game is good. Its actually one of the best. And the reason why it does not have wow numbers are due to at least these things:
1. People are scared away from even trying it reading all the hate towards the game and SOE. Sheep mentality is very human. Most of the critisism is out of date and does not hold water anylonger. Its repeated nonsense that roots back to NGE.
2. SOE has a good game. But they should marked the game a lot better. Its a game that absolutely deserve that. And many people would be amazed to see all the possibilities of a game where you can craft, entertain, build playercities, be a bounty hunter hunting players, take part in battle between imperials and rebels. It is simply a game that has more things going than most games. Sadly enough. I wish developers had started making more games like this.
3. Veterans left the game in anger and frustration after NGE. I did, so I know "my own people" :P They come here and basically are not happy with any game because there is not a sandbox game made. And they let their frustration being pointed at SOE and SWG. Maybe SOE needs some constructive critisism sometimes like all game makers does. But it does not take away the fact that SWG is a fantastic game and SOE at some point after 2007 understood that sandbox is the way to stay for SWG and brought back those elements and they have a really cool and dedicated dev team on that game.
Originally posted by Daffid011 "The current customers do not matter beyond funding our current needs and that funding will be obtained regardless of the outcome. The current customer will soon be replaced by many more future potential customers that will be attracted to our new revenue models".
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
All those things are still in the game just like before + lots of them are improved a lot. There are new houses too now. And you can even change color on the interior now. + Houses have windows.
Characters moves like before. Expertise brought back lots of old templates. Its still a elegant game far more complex than most. But lots of the added features have made the game a little easier for the beginner to get into.
What really strikes me when I read all theese "hate" posts. Is that the mentality (that i had too before, I have to admit that) of the persons is a shadow of the past. The flawed logic of the critisism has not changed since 2005 and days and weeks after NGE. Belive me that game has changed a lot and too the better . So an update on the stance bout how the game nees a serious update.
Forgive me for saying this. But the hate is getting a little old. And the arguments sounds like they were invented in 2005 at a time when they actually were right. They are not today.
I just wish that many haters would go back and see themselves. They would be surprised. Most "haters" that I know who have gone back have just had to admit they were wrong .. or right in 2005 but not in 2009.
Sir, if you continue to call any post that disagrees with you a "hate post", I'll report you for trolling and flaming. If you can't reply without resorting to name calling, I suggest you stop posting. Debate is not "hate".
Lets talk about the "New houses". A large beach house & a small castle. LOL! Have you seen the TCG homes? At-At house, Barn, Diner, Jedi Temple, Sith Temple, Swimming pool, Starship Hanger. Structures Crafters were given 2 crappy houses for their update and the TCG has added in 7 HIGHLY desirable homes. Add to that the fact that not one of the TCG homes even needs a Structures Crafter to create them and I can quite honestly say that SoE (via the TCG) has completely removed the need for Structure traders.
The windows were fine, but they weren't enough for me to give a **edit** about buying a new one (and that was true of MOST players). The windows are bugged still too - BH's can pull players out of a windowed house. Coloring homes was done sloppily. It's only the "hue". No details, no "drastic" color variances...meh. If painting your home floats your boat, cool, but the lack of shades made this a fairly worthless addition. Dark grey or light grey? /yawn.
Characters move the same??? When did you start playing? I can't even begin to argue this with you because your statement is entirely false. Everything from character movement to Jedi animations are but shadows of their former elegance. If you honestly feel that way, you never saw the original movements. Read this thread and watch this video to see how wrong you are.
Bio-engineer, Carbineer, Combat Medic, Creature Handler, Doctor, Fencer, Mayor, Pikeman, Pistoleer, Politician, Ranger, Rifleman, Squad Leader, Swordsman, Teras Kasi Artist...where exactly are their templates available in Expertise? Expertise "helped", but it is NOT "in the game just like before" mate.
The arguments today are just as valid as they were in 2005. SoE, as a company, has NOT changed. It started with the CU, exploded with the NGE and continues to this day with the TCG. SoE's business model is flawed and their ethical practices are aberrant.
Originally posted by Daffid011 "The current customers do not matter beyond funding our current needs and that funding will be obtained regardless of the outcome. The current customer will soon be replaced by many more future potential customers that will be attracted to our new revenue models".
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
All those things are still in the game just like before + lots of them are improved a lot. There are new houses too now. And you can even change color on the interior now. + Houses have windows.
Characters moves like before. Expertise brought back lots of old templates. Its still a elegant game far more complex than most. But lots of the added features have made the game a little easier for the beginner to get into.
What really strikes me when I read all theese "hate" posts. Is that the mentality (that i had too before, I have to admit that) of the persons is a shadow of the past. The flawed logic of the critisism has not changed since 2005 and days and weeks after NGE. Belive me that game has changed a lot and too the better . So an update on the stance bout how the game nees a serious update.
Forgive me for saying this. But the hate is getting a little old. And the arguments sounds like they were invented in 2005 at a time when they actually were right. They are not today.
I just wish that many haters would go back and see themselves. They would be surprised. Most "haters" that I know who have gone back have just had to admit they were wrong .. or right in 2005 but not in 2009.
Sir, if you continue to call any post that disagrees with you a "hate post", I'll report you for trolling and flaming. If you can't reply without resorting to name calling, I suggest you stop posting. Debate is not "hate".
Lets talk about the "New houses". A large beach house & a small castle. LOL! Have you seen the TCG homes? At-At house, Barn, Diner, Jedi Temple, Sith Temple, Swimming pool, Starship Hanger. Structures Crafters were given 2 crappy houses for their update and the TCG has added in 7 HIGHLY desirable homes. Add to that the fact that not one of the TCG homes even needs a Structures Crafter to create them and I can quite honestly say that SoE (via the TCG) has completely removed the need for Structure traders.
The windows were fine, but they weren't enough for me to give a **edit** about buying a new one (and that was true of MOST players). The windows are bugged still too - BH's can pull players out of a windowed house. Coloring homes was done sloppily. It's only the "hue". No details, no "drastic" color variances...meh. If painting your home floats your boat, cool, but the lack of shades made this a fairly worthless addition. Dark grey or light grey? /yawn.
Characters move the same??? When did you start playing? I can't even begin to argue this with you because your statement is entirely false. Everything from character movement to Jedi animations are but shadows of their former elegance. If you honestly feel that way, you never saw the original movements. Read this thread and watch this video to see how wrong you are.
Bio-engineer, Carbineer, Combat Medic, Creature Handler, Doctor, Fencer, Mayor, Pikeman, Pistoleer, Politician, Ranger, Rifleman, Squad Leader, Swordsman, Teras Kasi Artist...where exactly are their templates available in Expertise? Expertise "helped", but it is NOT "in the game just like before" mate.
The arguments today are just as valid as they were in 2005. SoE, as a company, has NOT changed. It started with the CU, exploded with the NGE and continues to this day with the TCG. SoE's business model is flawed and their ethical practices are aberrant.
At least there are houses and player cities in SWG. What other game has such a thing?
Some games have instanced housing. But that is just not the same feeling of freedom.
It is not a perfect game. Far from it. I just think it has more going for it than most games and its one of the last sandboxes out there. A support for games like SWG is a support of sandbox games as companies (all of them) only belive in numbers.
Every sane company will make what sells. Very few are making games based on passion. The people with passion in gaming are us, the gamers. And that is a bit why discussions about SWG always ends up like this. Two fronts against each other.
Even if some parts of the game in some opinion is less than it was ( I actually feel that overall its better ). What is "left" of SWG is still better than most games out there and if something is lost. Its lost. Then the best thing is to go for the second best?
And what I tried to say originally was that I just feel the game is second best thing to SWG pre-CU is SWG today. I now feel that its even better than pre-CU / NGE. Animations or not.
But even if it was not as good. Name a game that comes even close? That has housing, player cities, crafting and the general freedom that SWG has. If you come up with such a title for me. I will sure test it out. As I am very interested in theese types of games.
Comments
That REALLY worries me. As much as I loved the potential SWG had, I have no expectations of ToR. If anything, I expect it to be little more than another KotoR style game...Mass Effect style, Mass Effect 2 style...Bioware has a track record of making games I almost liked but hated because of the continual dialog and slow gameplay.
Going in with LOW expectations is probably advisable.
All in preference I guess. I'm sure there is a large group of people like you who aren't to interested in story. Last I heard story/dialogue will be about 10% of the game, meaning 90% will be killing/crafting/traveling/socializing. They will probably give you a way to skim through it and make choices, kill, save etc. Then get awarded your morality points, which as far as I know, go towards character progression in class skills.
LOL!
I do agree with the OP though. While not "as it was" it isn't THAT bad right now. I still log in from time to time to run around a bit
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"I like wow, I like aion and I like AoC all for different reasons.....the later cause i get to see boobs, but still its a reason!!" - Sawlstone
I don't think many, if any, are expecting the old republic to be pre-nge star wars.
Hopefully bioware doesn't make the same or as many mistakes that soe has.
Im not picking on you directly Darkbladed as your post had a constructed point of view but this line Ive left is alot of peoples gospel according to SOE
And if you look on SOE Mission statement point 5a - "Find various ways to screw customers, after all we dont need em!"
See the sense in that statement you made?
ain't that the truth man
What I'm worried about is the comparisons. "Bah! ToR sux! PreCU SWG was better at _<insert something here>_" type of comments. It has nothing to do with Bioware. In fact, SoE can get most credit for the anticipation and hype ToR has gotten. Since the NGE there have been more rumors of Bioware making a preCU Star Wars than there have been NGE Jedi.
Few things in life live up to the expectations I feel ToR has (except for DVR's...they freaking ROCK!).
Huh. I kinda like that
Im not picking on you directly Darkbladed as your post had a constructed point of view but this line Ive left is alot of peoples gospel according to SOE
And if you look on SOE Mission statement point 5a - "Find various ways to screw customers, after all we dont need em!"
See the sense in that statement you made?
I love the references to SoE hate being "blind" in this thread. It's perfectly fine if you are enjoying a game produced by SoE, but don't condescend to former costumers as if their reasons for being so bitter are invalid. As a former Planetside player, it was neglected almost to the game breaking NGE level. This wasn't simply about a lack of content or updates, but their incompotency breaking the game for current subscribers. One patch came out that I, and hundreds of others, simply could no longer play the game without crashing and freezing due to a video card incompatability that didn't exist until the day after this patch. It took SoE 2 years (fully aware and admitted the problem on their forums) to fix what they had broken, by which I was more than fed up and moved on. The game is a shell of it's former self, the last listed updated is years ago on their own launcher.
To continue saying SoE hasn't, at the very least, shown a great deal of greed and incompotency over the years with NUMEROUS games is exactly what you're calling it; blind.
Huh. I kinda like that
Story or the idea? I'm confused : /
To the OP. ROFLMAO...........oh god thanks I needed a good laugh.
I'm old not dead. (Nov8tr is pronounced innovator)
Huh. I kinda like that
Story or the idea? I'm confused : /
The fact that it's rumored to be only 10% story, 90% "stuff"
I like "stuff".
Huh. I kinda like that
Story or the idea? I'm confused : /
The fact that it's rumored to be only 10% story, 90% "stuff"
I like "stuff".
I can't remember what article it was on, but it was a recent one. And yes "stuff" is good.
Im not picking on you directly Darkbladed as your post had a constructed point of view but this line Ive left is alot of peoples gospel according to SOE
And if you look on SOE Mission statement point 5a - "Find various ways to screw customers, after all we dont need em!"
See the sense in that statement you made?
Yet the folks at SOE have a history of acting in that exact manner. The way the folks at SOE treat their customers would make more sense if they honestly believed they didn't need customers to remain in business. The only thing that makes less sense than the actions of the folks at SOE is that there are as many people willing to be treated like an abused spouse by them as there seems to be.
Im not picking on you directly Darkbladed as your post had a constructed point of view but this line Ive left is alot of peoples gospel according to SOE
And if you look on SOE Mission statement point 5a - "Find various ways to screw customers, after all we dont need em!"
See the sense in that statement you made?
Yet the folks at SOE have a history of acting in that exact manner. The way the folks at SOE treat their customers would make more sense if they honestly believed they didn't need customers to remain in business. The only thing that makes less sense than the actions of the folks at SOE is that there are as many people willing to be treated like an abused spouse by them as there seems to be.
If I had to guess what SOEs internal mission statement said it would be something along the lines of
5a "The current customers do not matter beyond funding our current needs and that funding will be obtained regardless of the outcome. The current customer will soon be replaced by many more future potential customers that will be attracted to our new revenue models".
Im not picking on you directly Darkbladed as your post had a constructed point of view but this line Ive left is alot of peoples gospel according to SOE
And if you look on SOE Mission statement point 5a - "Find various ways to screw customers, after all we dont need em!"
See the sense in that statement you made?
Yet the folks at SOE have a history of acting in that exact manner. The way the folks at SOE treat their customers would make more sense if they honestly believed they didn't need customers to remain in business. The only thing that makes less sense than the actions of the folks at SOE is that there are as many people willing to be treated like an abused spouse by them as there seems to be.
If I had to guess what SOEs internal mission statement said it would be something along the lines of
5a "The current customers do not matter beyond funding our current needs and that funding will be obtained regardless of the outcome. The current customer will soon be replaced by many more future potential customers that will be attracted to our new revenue models".
My point really was more to say even with the planetside "dropping" they as a business simply wont of all sat down in a meeting an gone "right so we got this game what shall we do?" - "lets lose all our customers by doing X" - "great idea lets go with it"
So what im saying is people who post that SOE are around to make their lives hell - need to get a real one.
Soe are running a business we dont know all the inside stuff that goes on and sure theyve made mistakes but like I said "ive grown up" its time to stop bashing them for an event that happened years ago and an event that half of the people weren't actually part of who seem to whine.
It happened to us - trust me when i say we all made our voices heard at the time...oh boy did we
What makes you think soe has changed since that event years ago? This isn't some freak one time occurance and just because the NGE dwarfs everything else in total amount of stupidity that doesn't give the company a pass for everything that transpires between then and now.
Just go look at how they are handling the new loot cards in EQ2 HERE.
Notice the first words out of the community managers mouth.
"I know that this is a development that many are not going to be pleased with." -Kiara EQII community manager.
Soe knows their players are not going to like what they are doing, but here it comes anyway. You can see examples of this all over their games and the terminology is almost always the same. Simply put, this is how soe conducts their business.
Now before we get to "they are a business and need to make money", sure and that is true for every company making mmos. Yet you don't see other companies acting like soe does. So yes I do think they sit around board meetings and talk about what will make them the most money and they do in fact factor in how many players will quit as a result of their changes. Time and time again they have intentionally made decisions that they know would lose them some customers, but have the potential to make more money.
Strangely enough soe's marketshare has been falling like a meteor and even indi companies are getting bigger than the former king of the industry. It doesn't take to much effort to figure out why and the backlask from players is a result of how soe conducts themselves.
Believe it or not, the backlash towards soe is far greater than the nge.
I really liked EQ2 and please dont tell me theyve gone down the Card idea like SWG - i think it all started from the idea of diplomacy game in VG and those bubble gum cards style that wow do.
Again though Kiara is in that unfortunate position of having to break the new to the rest - its not techincally her fault mind.
But I was referrring to the NGE alone - my post was geared to that.
Its true SOE are not great at making decision but then people keep buying these crappy cards - so in effect it works.
Stop these muppets buying these cards in the first place.
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
All those things are still in the game just like before + lots of them are improved a lot. There are new houses too now. And you can even change color on the interior now. + Houses have windows.
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
All those things are still in the game just like before + lots of them are improved a lot. There are new houses too now. And you can even change color on the interior now. + Houses have windows.
Characters moves like before. Expertise brought back lots of old templates. Its still a elegant game far more complex than most. But lots of the added features have made the game a little easier for the beginner to get into.
What really strikes me when I read all theese "hate" posts. Is that the mentality (that i had too before, I have to admit that) of the persons is a shadow of the past. The flawed logic of the critisism has not changed since 2005 and days and weeks after NGE. Belive me that game has changed a lot and too the better . So an update on the stance bout how the game nees a serious update.
Forgive me for saying this. But the hate is getting a little old. And the arguments sounds like they were invented in 2005 at a time when they actually were right. They are not today.
I just wish that many haters would go back and see themselves. They would be surprised. Most "haters" that I know who have gone back have just had to admit they were wrong .. or right in 2005 but not in 2009.
I have to think you're not reading what people are saying. Did you see Daffid's quote from the EQ2 community manager about the game changes? The one where SOE knows that many people won't like the changes but they're going to do them anyways?
You realize that this is the attitude that drove many players away from SWG time and time again don't you? You see that they have the same attitude now?
You see that even if SWG has some new bells and whistles people don't want to do business with a company that's going to give them the shaft?
You read the comments about SOE breaking the video compatibility of one of their other games, admitting it, but not fixing it for 2 years didn't you? Since this is in another of their games, it's obviously not related to NGE rage.
Have you read how people feel about the recent TCG loot items in SWG? If you have, you'll realize that these are not "old" issues. They are current issues that seem to demonstrate the same attitude that has turned so many people away from SWG over and over again.
Btw, you also told people to go back to SWG because you can have more than one character per server, just like pre-cu. What are you talking about? Pre-cu, you could only have one character per server unless you unlocked a jedi. Did you play pre-cu, or did you forget this central feature of the game?
You also just posted somewhere telling people that Entertainer is so cool in SWG because you can heal Battle Fatigue. Did they bring Battle Fatigue and healing back?
You also claim just above that SWG characters move just like they used to. Are you serious? Did they slow the movement combat down to pre-cu speed and restore all of the missing animations and skills that all of the various professions had? What's your game telling people all of this stuff?
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
All those things are still in the game just like before + lots of them are improved a lot. There are new houses too now. And you can even change color on the interior now. + Houses have windows.
Characters moves like before. Expertise brought back lots of old templates. Its still a elegant game far more complex than most. But lots of the added features have made the game a little easier for the beginner to get into.
What really strikes me when I read all theese "hate" posts. Is that the mentality (that i had too before, I have to admit that) of the persons is a shadow of the past. The flawed logic of the critisism has not changed since 2005 and days and weeks after NGE. Belive me that game has changed a lot and too the better . So an update on the stance bout how the game nees a serious update.
Forgive me for saying this. But the hate is getting a little old. And the arguments sounds like they were invented in 2005 at a time when they actually were right. They are not today.
I just wish that many haters would go back and see themselves. They would be surprised. Most "haters" that I know who have gone back have just had to admit they were wrong .. or right in 2005 but not in 2009.
I have to think you're not reading what people are saying. Did you see Daffid's quote from the EQ2 community manager about the game changes? The one where SOE knows that many people won't like the changes but they're going to do them anyways?
I am not saying SOE is perfect. Far from it. But who are? And what they do to EQ2 does not interest me much as I am really pleased with what they have done to SWG. When urge is there to play fantasy theemed game I play LOTRonline or WOW.
And there are other companies in other branches of my life that worries me a lot more. Back to SWG. That game has improved big time. All that game needs now is better marketing. Its an amazing game today. (I never belived I would say anything like this.. but its the truth)
You realize that this is the attitude that drove many players away from SWG time and time again don't you? You see that they have the same attitude now?
I know.. but there is no doubtt that the attitude towards SWG is changing.. Just do a Youtube search and watch the SWG videos and read the comments. I was amazed myself discovering this.. but when I went back to the game. I understood why.
You see that even if SWG has some new bells and whistles people don't want to do business with a company that's going to give them the shaft?
The amount I pay for playing SWG every months is worth it. I get more angry if I order a pizza and discover that they have forgotten to put cheese on it.
You read the comments about SOE breaking the video compatibility of one of their other games, admitting it, but not fixing it for 2 years didn't you? Since this is in another of their games, it's obviously not related to NGE rage.
I don't know any details of this. I have had no problem running SWG on any of my 4 computers that are of different brands and age. So theese things do not worry me.
Have you read how people feel about the recent TCG loot items in SWG? If you have, you'll realize that these are not "old" issues. They are current issues that seem to demonstrate the same attitude that has turned so many people away from SWG over and over again.
Yes.. and it does not seem to be a big issue since its mostly fluff. The complains are not deep or serious. I don't think this is an issue at all. Everyone gets free items every month even if not playing the game. I just got some cool stuff for my houe and are happy. And as crafter everything I make is still in high demand. EQ2 is a different story though. But I am talking about SWG so I dont bother with EQ2. Never liked that game very much.
Btw, you also told people to go back to SWG because you can have more than one character per server, just like pre-cu. What are you talking about? Pre-cu, you could only have one character per server unless you unlocked a jedi. Did you play pre-cu, or did you forget this central feature of the game?
Oh yes. Played since December 2004 and untill NGE.
I am well aware that we only had one character before. I had several accounts due to that. What you point out is a result of my my clumsy englsih:
What I wrote:
Since you can respec your character, and have more than one character now (as pre CU).
What I mean = Since you can respec your character and unlike pre CU where you could only have one character you can NOW have more than one.
You also just posted somewhere telling people that Entertainer is so cool in SWG because you can heal Battle Fatigue. Did they bring Battle Fatigue and healing back?
What I tried to say is that entertainers are really nice because its a uniqu play style. I just love hanging in cantina giving buffs and chatting with people.
Back in the days, pre NGE, healing battle fatigue and giving your one buff and hoping for a tip while being really underdog compared to doctor was all you could do, I mean apart from socialising.
Today entertainers are even more "popular" than ever amongst other player because UNLIKE before with only battle fatigue healing and one buf.. entertainers today have more than 30 buffs to offer and a real UI where we can put in covercharge. AND since image designer, Dancer and Musician is merged the whole package is just more compleete. Its a really fun class.. but it will not appeal to everyone. But thos that it appeal too will not find such a unique class in any other game. period.
You also claim just above that SWG characters move just like they used to. Are you serious? Did they slow the movement combat down to pre-cu speed and restore all of the missing animations and skills that all of the various professions had? What's your game telling people all of this stuff?
What I am saying is that after NGE. I did not know how to move. Keybindings and stuff were so changed. Now old bindings are back in the game. Autotarget is an option and so on. The game moves like the old game. Many of the animations are back and there are also new.
Forgive me for asking. But have you played SWG recently? Because I can understand you if you played it before NGE and left directly after the changes. Game was broken after NGE. And in a horrible state. But its totally different ship today. Back then it would sink to the bottom. Today it can sail on every ocan there is and be a proud liner.
Yes the current game IS in better shape than even 2 years ago, however it still is the same system since Nov 2005. SOE has slowly been trying to chop away all the crafting and ingame economy and replacing it with loot and every new loot players asks for gets put into the TCG (they could have put the nightsister back pack into the Axkva Min loot table instead).
So it's pretty much SWG version 2.5 with TCG for loots.
Blue,
Please don't hide behind calling out "hate posts" and blaming people for not trying swg. Fine if you like it, but I can already read the sacrfice in your words and attempting to shift the discussion to focus on the people disagreeing with you instead of their views is a cheap way out.
You say the trading card game loot cards are just fluff as if it has no impact on the game? Almost every single one of them represents an ability of a swg profession. That is not fluff, it is content that an entire professions is centered around creating, yet you dismiss it without even the slightest thought. To downplay the impact of soe putting more development effort into their loot cards than the actual games just tells me how far you have to go in order to "like" this game. You have to make sacrifices and lower standards.
As for trying the game, believe me there have been enough vet trials to stay current with what little the game has to offer. Is swg better than when the nge released, sure, but that isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. It has been almost 4 years, but I would not look at the progress of the game and be proud of it or think it was quality by any means. Every time I log in I am bombarded with buggy gameplay. Shadows of my avatar that pass through houses/mountains, mobs I cannot shoot that have no trouble shooting through walls at me, ridiculous run speed animations and that is just the first few minutes of gameplay. It is next to impossible to play this game smoothly and without something stupid breaking immersion. SWG just does not deliver a pleasent experience, because it is a hacked together piece of garbage. There is no excuse for a game of this age to be in the condition it is.
If you don't think my quote about EQ2 community manager admitting they know players will not like the changes and continuing to shove them down players throughs is a concern of yours, then go watch the SWG panel at fan faire. Here (check out around the 53:00 minute mark for a great example) Listen to the lead soe community manager and how dismissive she is of player concerns. When directly asked about the amount of content in the loot cards compared to the lack of content in the actual game (which is the ONLY time the crowd cheers in agreement with anything) the CRM response? "You are gonna hate one of the updates coming to the TCG as it has something ultimately cool". She ackowledges that it is "a source of frustration" and then cheerfully skips along totally ignoring the players concerns even saying "those rewards go to the people who pay". This is the public face of soe telling you "we know you don't like it, but there is more coming".
She displays what is very typical across every soe game from their leadership. A serious lack of concern towards players. She all but says 'yeah we know you hate the loot cards, but fuck you' and further admits the tcg is an issue in the other games that have it as well. The TCG is not a minor issue as you try to paint it.
Overall the problem with swg is not the players or people who opt to not play. There are millions of new mmo players that have never experienced the nge or soes special brand of treatment. Yet swg continues to wither up and die when it is in the middle of the biggest growth of the mmo genre.
If the game was so awesome then more people would play it. The awesome gameplay would hook all the people you can find demoing the game trial right now. They are there trying the game right now, but the game continues to decline. How much more clearly can it be stated that the gameplay is the flaw?
The ironic thing about SWG. Is that the people with the strongest opinions about that game are those that actually do not play it and with all respect towards them. They simply do not know what they are talking about any longer.
The game is good. Its actually one of the best. And the reason why it does not have wow numbers are due to at least these things:
1. People are scared away from even trying it reading all the hate towards the game and SOE. Sheep mentality is very human. Most of the critisism is out of date and does not hold water anylonger. Its repeated nonsense that roots back to NGE.
2. SOE has a good game. But they should marked the game a lot better. Its a game that absolutely deserve that. And many people would be amazed to see all the possibilities of a game where you can craft, entertain, build playercities, be a bounty hunter hunting players, take part in battle between imperials and rebels. It is simply a game that has more things going than most games. Sadly enough. I wish developers had started making more games like this.
3. Veterans left the game in anger and frustration after NGE. I did, so I know "my own people" :P They come here and basically are not happy with any game because there is not a sandbox game made. And they let their frustration being pointed at SOE and SWG. Maybe SOE needs some constructive critisism sometimes like all game makers does. But it does not take away the fact that SWG is a fantastic game and SOE at some point after 2007 understood that sandbox is the way to stay for SWG and brought back those elements and they have a really cool and dedicated dev team on that game.
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
All those things are still in the game just like before + lots of them are improved a lot. There are new houses too now. And you can even change color on the interior now. + Houses have windows.
Characters moves like before. Expertise brought back lots of old templates. Its still a elegant game far more complex than most. But lots of the added features have made the game a little easier for the beginner to get into.
What really strikes me when I read all theese "hate" posts. Is that the mentality (that i had too before, I have to admit that) of the persons is a shadow of the past. The flawed logic of the critisism has not changed since 2005 and days and weeks after NGE. Belive me that game has changed a lot and too the better . So an update on the stance bout how the game nees a serious update.
Forgive me for saying this. But the hate is getting a little old. And the arguments sounds like they were invented in 2005 at a time when they actually were right. They are not today.
I just wish that many haters would go back and see themselves. They would be surprised. Most "haters" that I know who have gone back have just had to admit they were wrong .. or right in 2005 but not in 2009.
Sir, if you continue to call any post that disagrees with you a "hate post", I'll report you for trolling and flaming. If you can't reply without resorting to name calling, I suggest you stop posting. Debate is not "hate".
Lets talk about the "New houses". A large beach house & a small castle. LOL! Have you seen the TCG homes? At-At house, Barn, Diner, Jedi Temple, Sith Temple, Swimming pool, Starship Hanger. Structures Crafters were given 2 crappy houses for their update and the TCG has added in 7 HIGHLY desirable homes. Add to that the fact that not one of the TCG homes even needs a Structures Crafter to create them and I can quite honestly say that SoE (via the TCG) has completely removed the need for Structure traders.
The windows were fine, but they weren't enough for me to give a **edit** about buying a new one (and that was true of MOST players). The windows are bugged still too - BH's can pull players out of a windowed house. Coloring homes was done sloppily. It's only the "hue". No details, no "drastic" color variances...meh. If painting your home floats your boat, cool, but the lack of shades made this a fairly worthless addition. Dark grey or light grey? /yawn.
Characters move the same??? When did you start playing? I can't even begin to argue this with you because your statement is entirely false. Everything from character movement to Jedi animations are but shadows of their former elegance. If you honestly feel that way, you never saw the original movements. Read this thread and watch this video to see how wrong you are.
Bio-engineer, Carbineer, Combat Medic, Creature Handler, Doctor, Fencer, Mayor, Pikeman, Pistoleer, Politician, Ranger, Rifleman, Squad Leader, Swordsman, Teras Kasi Artist...where exactly are their templates available in Expertise? Expertise "helped", but it is NOT "in the game just like before" mate.
The arguments today are just as valid as they were in 2005. SoE, as a company, has NOT changed. It started with the CU, exploded with the NGE and continues to this day with the TCG. SoE's business model is flawed and their ethical practices are aberrant.
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
All those things are still in the game just like before + lots of them are improved a lot. There are new houses too now. And you can even change color on the interior now. + Houses have windows.
Characters moves like before. Expertise brought back lots of old templates. Its still a elegant game far more complex than most. But lots of the added features have made the game a little easier for the beginner to get into.
What really strikes me when I read all theese "hate" posts. Is that the mentality (that i had too before, I have to admit that) of the persons is a shadow of the past. The flawed logic of the critisism has not changed since 2005 and days and weeks after NGE. Belive me that game has changed a lot and too the better . So an update on the stance bout how the game nees a serious update.
Forgive me for saying this. But the hate is getting a little old. And the arguments sounds like they were invented in 2005 at a time when they actually were right. They are not today.
I just wish that many haters would go back and see themselves. They would be surprised. Most "haters" that I know who have gone back have just had to admit they were wrong .. or right in 2005 but not in 2009.
Sir, if you continue to call any post that disagrees with you a "hate post", I'll report you for trolling and flaming. If you can't reply without resorting to name calling, I suggest you stop posting. Debate is not "hate".
Lets talk about the "New houses". A large beach house & a small castle. LOL! Have you seen the TCG homes? At-At house, Barn, Diner, Jedi Temple, Sith Temple, Swimming pool, Starship Hanger. Structures Crafters were given 2 crappy houses for their update and the TCG has added in 7 HIGHLY desirable homes. Add to that the fact that not one of the TCG homes even needs a Structures Crafter to create them and I can quite honestly say that SoE (via the TCG) has completely removed the need for Structure traders.
The windows were fine, but they weren't enough for me to give a **edit** about buying a new one (and that was true of MOST players). The windows are bugged still too - BH's can pull players out of a windowed house. Coloring homes was done sloppily. It's only the "hue". No details, no "drastic" color variances...meh. If painting your home floats your boat, cool, but the lack of shades made this a fairly worthless addition. Dark grey or light grey? /yawn.
Characters move the same??? When did you start playing? I can't even begin to argue this with you because your statement is entirely false. Everything from character movement to Jedi animations are but shadows of their former elegance. If you honestly feel that way, you never saw the original movements. Read this thread and watch this video to see how wrong you are.
Bio-engineer, Carbineer, Combat Medic, Creature Handler, Doctor, Fencer, Mayor, Pikeman, Pistoleer, Politician, Ranger, Rifleman, Squad Leader, Swordsman, Teras Kasi Artist...where exactly are their templates available in Expertise? Expertise "helped", but it is NOT "in the game just like before" mate.
The arguments today are just as valid as they were in 2005. SoE, as a company, has NOT changed. It started with the CU, exploded with the NGE and continues to this day with the TCG. SoE's business model is flawed and their ethical practices are aberrant.
At least there are houses and player cities in SWG. What other game has such a thing?
Some games have instanced housing. But that is just not the same feeling of freedom.
It is not a perfect game. Far from it. I just think it has more going for it than most games and its one of the last sandboxes out there. A support for games like SWG is a support of sandbox games as companies (all of them) only belive in numbers.
Every sane company will make what sells. Very few are making games based on passion. The people with passion in gaming are us, the gamers. And that is a bit why discussions about SWG always ends up like this. Two fronts against each other.
Even if some parts of the game in some opinion is less than it was ( I actually feel that overall its better ). What is "left" of SWG is still better than most games out there and if something is lost. Its lost. Then the best thing is to go for the second best?
And what I tried to say originally was that I just feel the game is second best thing to SWG pre-CU is SWG today. I now feel that its even better than pre-CU / NGE. Animations or not.
But even if it was not as good. Name a game that comes even close? That has housing, player cities, crafting and the general freedom that SWG has. If you come up with such a title for me. I will sure test it out. As I am very interested in theese types of games.