Blue, Please don't hide behind calling out "hate posts" and blaming people for not trying swg. Fine if you like it, but I can already read the sacrfice in your words and attempting to shift the discussion to focus on the people disagreeing with you instead of their views is a cheap way out. You say the trading card game loot cards are just fluff as if it has no impact on the game? Almost every single one of them represents an ability of a swg profession. That is not fluff, it is content that an entire professions is centered around creating, yet you dismiss it without even the slightest thought. To downplay the impact of soe putting more development effort into their loot cards than the actual games just tells me how far you have to go in order to "like" this game. You have to make sacrifices and lower standards. As for trying the game, believe me there have been enough vet trials to stay current with what little the game has to offer. Is swg better than when the nge released, sure, but that isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. It has been almost 4 years, but I would not look at the progress of the game and be proud of it or think it was quality by any means. Every time I log in I am bombarded with buggy gameplay. Shadows of my avatar that pass through houses/mountains, mobs I cannot shoot that have no trouble shooting through walls at me, ridiculous run speed animations and that is just the first few minutes of gameplay. It is next to impossible to play this game smoothly and without something stupid breaking immersion. SWG just does not deliver a pleasent experience, because it is a hacked together piece of garbage. There is no excuse for a game of this age to be in the condition it is. If you don't think my quote about EQ2 community manager admitting they know players will not like the changes and continuing to shove them down players throughs is a concern of yours, then go watch the SWG panel at fan faire. Here (check out around the 53:00 minute mark for a great example) Listen to the lead soe community manager and how dismissive she is of player concerns. When directly asked about the amount of content in the loot cards compared to the lack of content in the actual game (which is the ONLY time the crowd cheers in agreement with anything) the CRM response? "You are gonna hate one of the updates coming to the TCG as it has something ultimately cool". She ackowledges that it is "a source of frustration" and then cheerfully skips along totally ignoring the players concerns even saying "those rewards go to the people who pay". This is the public face of soe telling you "we know you don't like it, but there is more coming". She displays what is very typical across every soe game from their leadership. A serious lack of concern towards players. She all but says 'yeah we know you hate the loot cards, but fuck you' and further admits the tcg is an issue in the other games that have it as well. The TCG is not a minor issue as you try to paint it.
Overall the problem with swg is not the players or people who opt to not play. There are millions of new mmo players that have never experienced the nge or soes special brand of treatment. Yet swg continues to wither up and die when it is in the middle of the biggest growth of the mmo genre. If the game was so awesome then more people would play it. The awesome gameplay would hook all the people you can find demoing the game trial right now. They are there trying the game right now, but the game continues to decline. How much more clearly can it be stated that the gameplay is the flaw?
The ironic thing about SWG. Is that the people with the strongest opinions about that game are those that actually do not play it and with all respect towards them. They simply do not know what they are talking about any longer.
And every time someone like myself post anything positive about SWG. The attacks towards the game start. And its unfair.
The game is good. Its actually one of the best. And the reason why it does not have wow numbers are due to at least theese things:
1. People are scared away from even trying it reading all the hate towards the game and SOE. Sheep mentality is very human. Most of ithe critisism is out of date and does not hold water anylonger.
2. SOE has a good game. But they should marked the game a lot better. Its a game that absolutely deserve that. And many people would be amazed to see all the possibillities of a game where you can craft, entertain, build playercities, be a bounty hunter hunting players, take part in battle between imperials and rebells. It is simply a game that has more things going than most games. Sadly enough. I wish develpoers had started making more games like this.
3. Veterans left the game in anger and frustration after NGE. I did, so I know "my own people" :P They come here and basically are not happy with any game because there is not a sandbox game made. And they let their frustration being pointed at SOE and SWG. Maybe SOE needs some constructive critisism sometimes like all game makers does. But it does not take away the fact that SWG is a fantastic game and SOE at some point after 2007 understood that sandbox is the way to stay for SWG and brought back those elements and they have a really cool and dedicated dev team on that game.
If veterans that once loved SWG had the courage and decency to look back and give it another try, instead of keep comming back to theese forums year after year. Repeating the same outdated critisism towards SOE and the game, this place would be better for all of us. We are not talking about constructive critisism here. Much of it is notorious hate towards SOE and a hate that the sheep mentality makes stronger. Its almost a movement.
Ultimately this is about persons. We are persons. Everything said and wrote on this forum is persons meanings. Everything should obviously be respected. But if you take part in a discussion like this. It is going to be exactly the way that it is.
This thread probably has gone a bit downhill so I will end by saying what I started originaly:
SWG is today second best or better than pre NGE. That is my honest opinion and I am not alone. Most returning vets that actually have an interest of finding the truth about SWG feels that same. I meet those people every day when I am online.
Put down the SWG/SOE TCG bong for second, and dispute any of these:
1: 250k-350k people played SWG concurrently at its height, and slightly less than 200k were playing at the time of the NGE (this was documented, partly by SOE. Now, the 10-20k accts (comprising 20-40k toons) are stuffed onto 12 servers in an attempt to make the game feel populated.
2. Now, there are so few players that 12 servers just closed, and people on 4-5 of the remaining servers want free trips off those. (see your precious O-boards for that)
3. For what is much worse in SWG as opposed to pre-NGE, and if it is absent completely, then yes, it is worse: 20 of the 32 professions in their entirety are gone , linear based levling, about 30% of the crafted or produced items in the game (meds, spice, tamable pets, baby animals, buff packs) gone, 40% of remaining items uselss, flexible skill system, many, missing animations, non-stupid combat speed, a UI that was not a complete POS as it is now, specials that always fired, deep player interdependency, no "magic" abilities taking the place of player content or items (magic healing, magic "stat" increases on weapons and armor, magic rezing, magic disappearing, etc etc), an insane list of dozens of buffs, NPC cities are now useless (except for starport and vendors), massive lag, useless buildings (med centers, garages, and more), a massive grind for everything and each new thing is a BIGGER grind than the last, No Trade everything, and on and on and on..... All of that was BETTER and useful during the pre-NGE and now isn't.
4. SWG used to have advertising during the pre-NGE, now doesn't.
5. SWG used to have expansions during the pre-NGE, now doesn't.
6. SWG used to have game cards during the pre-NGE, that people could find and now don't.
You like the game as it is now, fine, there is no accounting for taste, but don't lie to people about the things that are objectively bad/wrong/broken. You like the game, the vast majority of people that have EVER played SWG no longer do and will never again pay to play.
There are plenty of vet trials and we "bitter" vets know EXACTLY what the game has and doesn't have.
Opinion is opinion, and fact is fact. And the FACT is, that if SWG were as non-crappy as you say, more people would play it, despite anything, anyone said on the boards or any other factor. A good game sells itself, a bad one can barely be given away. SWG had its time and it has blown its chance to be great. The overwhelming majority Its customers are gone and will not come back. And they don't. And won't. Ever.
12 closed servers says they don't, people begging for free transfers off remaining servers says they don't, and the abject lack of business support SOE shows SWG shows they no longer care.
The ironic thing about SWG. Is that the people with the strongest opinions about that game are those that actually do not play it and with all respect towards them. They simply do not know what they are talking about any longer. The game is good. Its actually one of the best. And the reason why it does not have wow numbers are due to at least these things: 1. People are scared away from even trying it reading all the hate towards the game and SOE. Sheep mentality is very human. Most of the critisism is out of date and does not hold water anylonger. Its repeated nonsense that roots back to NGE. 2. SOE has a good game. But they should marked the game a lot better. Its a game that absolutely deserve that. And many people would be amazed to see all the possibilities of a game where you can craft, entertain, build playercities, be a bounty hunter hunting players, take part in battle between imperials and rebels. It is simply a game that has more things going than most games. Sadly enough. I wish developers had started making more games like this. 3. Veterans left the game in anger and frustration after NGE. I did, so I know "my own people" :P They come here and basically are not happy with any game because there is not a sandbox game made. And they let their frustration being pointed at SOE and SWG. Maybe SOE needs some constructive critisism sometimes like all game makers does. But it does not take away the fact that SWG is a fantastic game and SOE at some point after 2007 understood that sandbox is the way to stay for SWG and brought back those elements and they have a really cool and dedicated dev team on that game. If veterans that once loved SWG would swallow a little pride and, instead of keep coming back to these forums year after year, repeating the same outdated critisism towards SOE and the game, this place would be better for all of us. We are not talking about constructive critisism here. Much of it is notorious hate towards SOE and a hate that the sheep mentality makes stronger. Its almost a movement. Actually. Since I wrote this thread I would like to change the title. Now that I have seen the game more I belive that the game is better than pre-CU, pre-NGE. And I am not alone feeling like this. I hear the same things from other veterans that I meet in the game every day.
It is always the same excuse with people trying to bolster soe games
If soe would only adverstize more people would play. Angry former players are preventing the game from swelling. You don't have a subscription so you have not seen how awesome the game is.
Do you see angry wow haters here destroying wow? How about eve or any number of the other games that get trashed here everyday.
Listen friend. My few words on this forum cannot stop the power of a giant like soe. The fact is that the game isn't doing well and that is not a result of me posting. You, just like everyone before you, has come here to find someone or something to blame other than the game itself. There is a free trial and despite my harsh criticism people still try the game. So where are they? If this game is so fucking awesome more people would play. They are downloading the trial every single day, so why is the population plummeting?
Honestly if it was a great game people would have gotten over it and returned to play it. There are millions of potential customers and it is just stupid to think they none of them have heard of the game, tried it or are scared away by some angry person on mmorpg.com. If people loved the game they would tell their friends and their friend would try. The cold ugly reality is that this is not happening. If I swallow my pride [as you call it], that will not change the game. I've tried it, really I have and I would love nothing more than to enjoy an mmo in the original trilogy setting, but swg is a total mess of a game. I don't have to look far to find another game that will not only offer me a superior experience, but it won't try to nickle and dime me to death for a tiny amount of content.
For heavens sake, this game has the name STAR WARS on it. How on earth can you blame anything but the game for not attracting and retaining players?
Lastly stop attacking the people who post and try debating their points. Really try it.
The ironic thing about SWG. Is that the people with the strongest opinions about that game are those that actually do not play it and with all respect towards them. They simply do not know what they are talking about any longer. The game is good. Its actually one of the best. And the reason why it does not have wow numbers are due to at least these things: 1. People are scared away from even trying it reading all the hate towards the game and SOE. Sheep mentality is very human. Most of the critisism is out of date and does not hold water anylonger. Its repeated nonsense that roots back to NGE. 2. SOE has a good game. But they should marked the game a lot better. Its a game that absolutely deserve that. And many people would be amazed to see all the possibilities of a game where you can craft, entertain, build playercities, be a bounty hunter hunting players, take part in battle between imperials and rebels. It is simply a game that has more things going than most games. Sadly enough. I wish developers had started making more games like this. 3. Veterans left the game in anger and frustration after NGE. I did, so I know "my own people" :P They come here and basically are not happy with any game because there is not a sandbox game made. And they let their frustration being pointed at SOE and SWG. Maybe SOE needs some constructive critisism sometimes like all game makers does. But it does not take away the fact that SWG is a fantastic game and SOE at some point after 2007 understood that sandbox is the way to stay for SWG and brought back those elements and they have a really cool and dedicated dev team on that game. If veterans that once loved SWG would swallow a little pride and, instead of keep coming back to these forums year after year, repeating the same outdated critisism towards SOE and the game, this place would be better for all of us. We are not talking about constructive critisism here. Much of it is notorious hate towards SOE and a hate that the sheep mentality makes stronger. Its almost a movement. Actually. Since I wrote this thread I would like to change the title. Now that I have seen the game more I belive that the game is better than pre-CU, pre-NGE. And I am not alone feeling like this. I hear the same things from other veterans that I meet in the game every day.
It is always the same excuse with people trying to bolster soe games
If soe would only adverstize more people would play. Angry former players are preventing the game from swelling. You don't have a subscription so you have not seen how awesome the game is.
Do you see angry wow haters here destroying wow? How about eve or any number of the other games that get trashed here everyday.
Listen friend. My few words on this forum cannot stop the power of a giant like soe. The fact is that the game isn't doing well and that is not a result of me posting. You, just like everyone before you, has come here to find someone or something to blame other than the game itself. There is a free trial and despite my harsh criticism people still try the game. So where are they? If this game is so fucking awesome more people would play. They are downloading the trial every single day, so why is the population plummeting?
Honestly if it was a great game people would have gotten over it and returned to play it. There are millions of potential customers and it is just stupid to think they none of them have heard of the game, tried it or are scared away by some angry person on mmorpg.com. If people loved the game they would tell their friends and their friend would try. The cold ugly reality is that this is not happening. If I swallow my pride [as you call it], that will not change the game. I've tried it, really I have and I would love nothing more than to enjoy an mmo in the original trilogy setting, but swg is a total mess of a game. I don't have to look far to find another game that will not only offer me a superior experience, but it won't try to nickle and dime me to death for a tiny amount of content.
For heavens sake, this game has the name STAR WARS on it. How on earth can you blame anything but the game for not attracting and retaining players?
Lastly stop attacking the people who post and try debating their points. Really try it.
I guess I am derailing my own thread a little bit now. But since that almost happened instantly I would like to ask you a quesiton.
I ask this in a friendly way and have no hidden agenda by doing so.
You mention its easy to find other solid games. What are you 3 favourite MMORPG games Its not my "business" at all, but its interesting to know what games other people enjoy. And I am not going to reply that you play crap games hehe.. I meant I dont do such things. Every game that someone loves is a good game for that person, just as everyone has a different taste in food and music.
I can tell mine. They are SWG, Wow and LOTR online. But I am constantly looking for other games. Even thought I have trouble finding a game that will replace SWG. Because I am fan of sandbox games.
Originally posted by blueshadow At least there are houses and player cities in SWG. What other game has such a thing?
Even Club Penguin has "player housing" and decorating - that's not as unique to SWG as so many seem to think.
I do agree though...player housing is a CRUCIAL component for any MMO.
Settling for second best? Not on your life. You need to know when to stop going for more, but NEVER settle for 2nd. That is an entirely defeatist attitude.
Selling loot via the TCG rather than in-game mechanics, like crafters and quests (which were why we all played), may be a short term cash windfall, but over time, the players who pay and play for real content (crafters for example) will slip away forever. It's not JUST about the loot for most people.
I did not read everything, but second best to pre-NGE are in no particular order :
Ryzom, EVE Online and Fallen Earth.
Certainly not SWG.
This is all purely my personal opinion.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Originally posted by blueshadow At least there are houses and player cities in SWG. What other game has such a thing?
Even Club Penguin has "player housing" and decorating - that's not as unique to SWG as so many seem to think.
I do agree though...player housing is a CRUCIAL component for any MMO.
Settling for second best? Not on your life. You need to know when to stop going for more, but NEVER settle for 2nd. That is an entirely defeatist attitude.
Selling loot via the TCG rather than in-game mechanics, like crafters and quests (which were why we all played), may be a short term cash windfall, but over time, the players who pay and play for real content (crafters for example) will slip away forever. It's not JUST about the loot for most people.
Agree.
I would be a blind-fan of SWG if I belived everything was just perfect. Far from it, but I havent found a single game yet where it is. I just like the hosuing, the crafting, the entertainers and the freedom that game still has.
And I agree about TOG. If too much focus is set on TCG rather than ingame. I will not bee happy aobut this. But so far I dont think this has happened. If it do its sad, but I still hope and belive that SOE will understand that it would be a wrong direction.
No doubt that SOE has gone too far with trading card games in their game everquest 2. There is a long thread on EQ2 forums about that. It will be interesting to see what happens over there.
Hehe.. I agree about never going for second best. But if the best is gone.. well then second best is the new best?
I did not read everything, but second best to pre-NGE are in no particular order : Ryzom, EVE Online and Fallen Earth. Certainly not SWG. This is all purely my personal opinion.
Ryzom huh? I need to look into that one Look for me on those boards for the next few hours :P
Originally posted by Daffid011 "The current customers do not matter beyond funding our current needs and that funding will be obtained regardless of the outcome. The current customer will soon be replaced by many more future potential customers that will be attracted to our new revenue models".
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
All those things are still in the game just like before + lots of them are improved a lot. There are new houses too now. And you can even change color on the interior now. + Houses have windows.
Characters moves like before. Expertise brought back lots of old templates. Its still a elegant game far more complex than most. But lots of the added features have made the game a little easier for the beginner to get into.
What really strikes me when I read all theese "hate" posts. Is that the mentality (that i had too before, I have to admit that) of the persons is a shadow of the past. The flawed logic of the critisism has not changed since 2005 and days and weeks after NGE. Belive me that game has changed a lot and too the better . So an update on the stance bout how the game nees a serious update.
Forgive me for saying this. But the hate is getting a little old. And the arguments sounds like they were invented in 2005 at a time when they actually were right. They are not today.
I just wish that many haters would go back and see themselves. They would be surprised. Most "haters" that I know who have gone back have just had to admit they were wrong .. or right in 2005 but not in 2009.
I have to think you're not reading what people are saying. Did you see Daffid's quote from the EQ2 community manager about the game changes? The one where SOE knows that many people won't like the changes but they're going to do them anyways?
I am not saying SOE is perfect. Far from it. But who are? And what they do to EQ2 does not interest me much as I am really pleased with what they have done to SWG. When urge is there to play fantasy theemed game I play LOTRonline or WOW.
And there are other companies in other branches of my life that worries me a lot more. Back to SWG. That game has improved big time. All that game needs now is better marketing. Its an amazing game today. (I never belived I would say anything like this.. but its the truth)
You realize that this is the attitude that drove many players away from SWG time and time again don't you? You see that they have the same attitude now?
I know.. but there is no doubtt that the attitude towards SWG is changing.. Just do a Youtube search and watch the SWG videos and read the comments. I was amazed myself discovering this.. but when I went back to the game. I understood why.
You see that even if SWG has some new bells and whistles people don't want to do business with a company that's going to give them the shaft?
The amount I pay for playing SWG every months is worth it. I get more angry if I order a pizza and discover that they have forgotten to put cheese on it.
You read the comments about SOE breaking the video compatibility of one of their other games, admitting it, but not fixing it for 2 years didn't you? Since this is in another of their games, it's obviously not related to NGE rage.
I don't know any details of this. I have had no problem running SWG on any of my 4 computers that are of different brands and age. So theese things do not worry me.
Have you read how people feel about the recent TCG loot items in SWG? If you have, you'll realize that these are not "old" issues. They are current issues that seem to demonstrate the same attitude that has turned so many people away from SWG over and over again.
Yes.. and it does not seem to be a big issue since its mostly fluff. The complains are not deep or serious. I don't think this is an issue at all. Everyone gets free items every month even if not playing the game. I just got some cool stuff for my houe and are happy. And as crafter everything I make is still in high demand. EQ2 is a different story though. But I am talking about SWG so I dont bother with EQ2. Never liked that game very much.
Btw, you also told people to go back to SWG because you can have more than one character per server, just like pre-cu. What are you talking about? Pre-cu, you could only have one character per server unless you unlocked a jedi. Did you play pre-cu, or did you forget this central feature of the game?
Oh yes. Played since December 2004 and untill NGE.
I am well aware that we only had one character before. I had several accounts due to that. What you point out is a result of my my clumsy englsih:
What I wrote:
Since you can respec your character, and have more than one character now (as pre CU).
What I mean = Since you can respec your character and unlike pre CU where you could only have one character you can NOW have more than one.
You also just posted somewhere telling people that Entertainer is so cool in SWG because you can heal Battle Fatigue. Did they bring Battle Fatigue and healing back?
What I tried to say is that entertainers are really nice because its a uniqu play style. I just love hanging in cantina giving buffs and chatting with people.
Back in the days, pre NGE, healing battle fatigue and giving your one buff and hoping for a tip while being really underdog compared to doctor was all you could do, I mean apart from socialising.
Today entertainers are even more "popular" than ever amongst other player because UNLIKE before with only battle fatigue healing and one buf.. entertainers today have more than 30 buffs to offer and a real UI where we can put in covercharge. AND since image designer, Dancer and Musician is merged the whole package is just more compleete. Its a really fun class.. but it will not appeal to everyone. But thos that it appeal too will not find such a unique class in any other game. period.
You also claim just above that SWG characters move just like they used to. Are you serious? Did they slow the movement combat down to pre-cu speed and restore all of the missing animations and skills that all of the various professions had? What's your game telling people all of this stuff?
What I am saying is that after NGE. I did not know how to move. Keybindings and stuff were so changed. Now old bindings are back in the game. Autotarget is an option and so on. The game moves like the old game. Many of the animations are back and there are also new.
Forgive me for asking. But have you played SWG recently? Because I can understand you if you played it before NGE and left directly after the changes. Game was broken after NGE. And in a horrible state. But its totally different ship today. Back then it would sink to the bottom. Today it can sail on every ocan there is and be a proud liner.
You may certainly ask if I've played since the NGE, and the answer is yes. I returned twice to the game at various points post-nge. Each time I played a full 60 day time card to see if I could get back into the game. Each time I was disappointed, for reasons already stated.
Besides me, you'll find that many of us who post here have been in the game more recently, or continue to play it (e.g. Fishermage). TUX was very recently a senator for the game, so to suggest he hasn't played recently would be entirely incorrect.
So, the notion that people who post here have not played since the NGE is quite simply incorrect. Ask TUX when he last played if you like for specifics. I'm sure he'll tell you, and since he was a senator he knows the game inside and out. Ask Fisher what he thinks, since the last time we chatted he was still in the game. Ask JYcowboy what he thinks of the game; he also is a current player and he and his wife (wonderful folks btw) have always run one of the best guilds in the game. He told me via email just yesterday about his thoughts on the game, which he currently plays.
Okay, now that we've debunked one myth, let's move on to another. TCG loot items are just fluff: this is a myth. They most certainly are not fluff and affect gameplay in a number of ways. They offer buffs or vehicles with superior capabilities just to name two examples. These are not fluff items, they impact game performance.
Another myth related to this is that there are no real problems associated with the TCG. The TCG tournaments were in fact banned from numerous states due to conflict with laws that protect gamers. These tournaments had you pay to enter, and gave you a random chance of winning prizes. This amounts to gambling, which is okay in these states if certain rules are followed to ensure a fair game. The rules were not followed, and it appears this is why the tournaments were banned.
In addition to this, numerous posts had people crying foul after they spent ridiculous amounts of money on a random chance to obtain specific items. People were also appalled when a loot item that gave bonuses to crafters (again not a fluff item) was nerfed on the Test Centre. They paid real cash for a chance to get the bonus, were lucky enough to win, and then SOE planned to nerf it. You may choose to dismiss all of this, but if you do, you are turning a blind eye to issues that others find quite troubling.
I appreciate you clarifying that alternate control schemes are now available. This is good, but I also want to highlight that this does not mean that previous movement or combat abilities have been restored in full. Many enjoyable templates remain absent from the game, along with all of their skills and enjoyable animations.
I also want to restate your clarifications that Battle Fatigue has not returned to the game, as your other post appeared to indicate, and that the respec system is not at all like the character building system of the pre-cu days.
Hopefully, by this point you can feel that you are certainly entitled to enjoy your game and speak positively about it. I hope you are equally aware that people do not dislike it simply out of blind hate or because they have not played it since 2005. No, what I think you have are people who honestly do not like what the game is today, or how SOE appears to continue to deal with customers.
I respect your opinion, and invite you to respect the opinion of others who may disagree with you for valid reasons.
For interest sake, instead of telling us that people who don't like the game are blind and hateful, or that there is no controversy about the loot items, or that none of us have played lately, I'd love to hear about specific content that has been recently added that you find enjoyable.
How do you like the heroic instances, for example? How do you feel about the beast-master system? The restoration of some form of creature handling was very important to some. How is it to have Hoth in the game finally? Do you enjoy the collections? People can point out the zombies seem silly in a StarWars game, but how is the gameplay? Does it work? Is it fun?
I think there are many ways you can share your joy for the game without misrepresenting it in some way (intentionally or unintentionally) and without misrepresenting or insulting people who disagree with you. Tbh, I'd love to hear that.
While you're at it, instead of turning a blind eye to some of the very real issues that continue to turn many gamers away from SWG, why don't you listen to other gamers and try to get SOE's attention? If they listen to gamers, acknowledge real issues, and actually do something positive about them, you'll see a lot of animosity towards SOE vanish; although it may take a long time for them to earn back the trust they seem to have broken. My two cents.
No. Simply no. Ive been back. Two times. SWG today is utter crap.
M M O S S I N C E |1998| P L A Y I N G F A L L E N E A R T H T I M E I N V E S T E D |uo|swg|wow|fe| B E T A T E S T E R |rz|tr|hgl|potbs|potc|gw|hz|wish|fe|wow|df|war|allods|cog|lu| w w w . c l o w n g u i l d . o r g
I am not going to post more in this tread now as I feel that the blind hate it too strong. But I will end by saying that no matter what people feel about SWG. Just look at every feature of that game today and compare it with other games currently on the marked and tell me witch other games that have all these features and that can compare.
OK, I'll bite.
I'd say, that one of the biggest things in gameplay, particularly a game that tries to be a hybrid shooter, is the ability to move.
Can your jedi.... oh... JUMP? A lame dwarf in any MMO made in the last 5 years can. They can also walk up a flight of stairs without worrying about getting too close to the corner and getting blocked. They can also step over a little rock without stopping cold. They can also take run behind a boulder and actually have it give them cover from fire. These are the kinds of things that are a minimum for something attempting to be a fps hybrid game. And most MMO's have them. Not SWG.
Fusion Fall, by Cartoon Network has a more advanced engine than this piece of puppy poop. More people are probably playing it, too.
You honestly think a Star Wars MMO needs much advertising? Do you really think your average Star Wars freak is going to listen to this board and not try the game, anyway? I know it wouldn't stop me.
I've been back several times since the NGE. And every time I get reminded that some idiot thought a Neverwinter Nights type game engine could be used to make a pseudo third person shooter. Had they not screwed with it, the engine could have worked for what it was intended to do, and wouldn't have a ton of subs, but it would have a significant niche like UO. A game doesn't have to have the latest tech to be fun, but it does require an engine that matches its gameplay.
The biggest sci-fi IP in the world sharing a sci fi MMO market with only 1 other significant game, and they can't even get 50k people to pay 15 bucks a month?
Enjoy the game while it lasts. I feel bad for the current dev team, cuz I bet they know it's all over soon. Only solace is that it'll probably be a relief to no longer have this albotross of a game around their neck.
I am not going to post more in this tread now as I feel that the blind hate it too strong. But I will end by saying that no matter what people feel about SWG. Just look at every feature of that game today and compare it with other games currently on the marked and tell me witch other games that have all these features and that can compare.
OK, I'll bite.
I'd say, that one of the biggest things in gameplay, particularly a game that tries to be a hybrid shooter, is the ability to move.
Can your jedi.... oh... JUMP? A lame dwarf in any MMO made in the last 5 years can. They can also walk up a flight of stairs without worrying about getting too close to the corner and getting blocked. They can also step over a little rock without stopping cold. They can also take run behind a boulder and actually have it give them cover from fire. These are the kinds of things that are a minimum for something attempting to be a fps hybrid game. And most MMO's have them. Not SWG.
Fusion Fall, by Cartoon Network has a more advanced engine than this piece of puppy poop. More people are probably playing it, too.
You honestly think a Star Wars MMO needs much advertising? Do you really think your average Star Wars freak is going to listen to this board and not try the game, anyway? I know it wouldn't stop me.
I've been back several times since the NGE. And every time I get reminded that some idiot thought a Neverwinter Nights type game engine could be used to make a pseudo third person shooter. Had they not screwed with it, the engine could have worked for what it was intended to do, and wouldn't have a ton of subs, but it would have a significant niche like UO. A game doesn't have to have the latest tech to be fun, but it does require an engine that matches its gameplay.
The biggest sci-fi IP in the world sharing a sci fi MMO market with only 1 other significant game, and they can't even get 50k people to pay 15 bucks a month?
Enjoy the game while it lasts. I feel bad for the current dev team, cuz I bet they know it's all over soon. Only solace is that it'll probably be a relief to no longer have this albotross of a game around their neck.
Press space bar and character jump in SWG. Been like that for a long time.
I enjoy the game and so do lots of people, And I am sure that SWG will celebrate 10th aniversary. I also get a feeling when playing the game that it generally appeals more to an "older" crowd. Means people over 30 years of age are more likely to like it than younger people. That age group is usually more loyal towards their game as younger people jump more between games and are more open to try new games. This is just generally speaking and is something I know, due to my RL profession.
Due to this, I am a bit more worried about some of the new games that are coming. TOR is always mentioned as the game that will "kill" SWG. But TOR has no guarantee. I mean. Look at WAR, AOC, Tabula Rasa etc. even a all-star development team is no guarantee for success. That said most of us have not seen TOR in action. And it might become an awesome game.
The strenght of SWG though, s that its so different. I fear that most new MMORPG will either be action arcade type game with chat or single player games with chat. Or Wow in a new wrapping. And that is why I strongly think SWG deserves to live.
People think this or that about SOE, but fact is that there are not many developers today that really got courage when it comes to making a different type of games. Most are following a success formula. A lot based on the standard Wow put in 2004. MMORG developement have gone same ways as Movie production. They find a success formula and follows it forever.
About SWG, I can not do anything else than play it, enjoy it and hope that lots of you here are wrong.
To the O.P.. You've clarified that contrary to what you said in another thread (however unintentionally) battle fatigue has not been returned to the game and pre-cu did not allow you to have more than one character. I appreciate the clarification.
Now, would you care to clarify that the TCG loot items do in fact affect game play? They are not fluff items as you suggested. Would you also mind acknowledging that many of the people who post here (and that I listed by name) either currently play the game, or have just recently quit? They are not bitter people who have not tried the game since 2005 as you said.
OK, I'll bite. I'd say, that one of the biggest things in gameplay, particularly a game that tries to be a hybrid shooter, is the ability to move. Can your jedi.... oh... JUMP? A lame dwarf in any MMO made in the last 5 years can. They can also walk up a flight of stairs without worrying about getting too close to the corner and getting blocked. They can also step over a little rock without stopping cold. They can also take run behind a boulder and actually have it give them cover from fire. These are the kinds of things that are a minimum for something attempting to be a fps hybrid game. And most MMO's have them. Not SWG.
Press space bar and character jump in SWG. Been like that for a long time.
Don't insult our intelligence. "Jumping" in SWG is and has always been an emote, not an action. It consists of an animation linked to a statement in spatial.You can't jump over or up onto anything; the game engine doesn't support it.
Buddy i was eating a cookie when i read this and almost choked on the crumbs lmao.
Honestly cut the guy some slack ,he has a game he is enjoying to play,nothing wrong with that.
I prefer people reminiscing the good old days lol,over people claiming their game is the next "WOW killer" or "we have this many million subscribers in first month" ,too many of these threads pop up every day.
I can sum up the 4 basic posts in MMORPG over the last few years..
1 SOE hate
2 WOW is the best
3 DF sucks bad
4 Aion is second best
These 4 topics alone have infested MMORPG with so many boring and ridiculous topics,i some times lose interest to read anything here.More often than not ,i just end up shaking my head thinking..."not again".
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I agree with OP but this place is not the best to speaking about current state of SWG. The anger scale and frustration are so huge here that even Jedi with Force Persuasion will never convince anybody.
If soe would only adverstize more people would play.
Am I the only one that remebers the commercials for the NGE on I think G4 after it was released. I can not remeber was it for the NGE or CU. If you order SWG right now you will get a free pet rock For me the current SWG is not a game I am intrested in playing but is nice to hear some people enjoy it.
If soe would only adverstize more people would play.
Am I the only one that remebers the commercials for the NGE on I think G4 after it was released. I can not remeber was it for the NGE or CU. If you order SWG right now you will get a free pet rock For me the current SWG is not a game I am intrested in playing but is nice to hear some people enjoy it.
I think you are quoting me out of context.
Yes I recall the commercials. Also I do not think the solution to swg problems (or eq2 or vanguard or planetside or free realms) is lack of advertising. Soe can advertise them until they are blue in the face, but that will not solve the problem of player retention.
I am not going to post more in this tread now as I feel that the blind hate it too strong. But I will end by saying that no matter what people feel about SWG. Just look at every feature of that game today and compare it with other games currently on the marked and tell me witch other games that have all these features and that can compare.
OK, I'll bite.
I'd say, that one of the biggest things in gameplay, particularly a game that tries to be a hybrid shooter, is the ability to move.
Can your jedi.... oh... JUMP? A lame dwarf in any MMO made in the last 5 years can. They can also walk up a flight of stairs without worrying about getting too close to the corner and getting blocked. They can also step over a little rock without stopping cold. They can also take run behind a boulder and actually have it give them cover from fire. These are the kinds of things that are a minimum for something attempting to be a fps hybrid game. And most MMO's have them. Not SWG.
Fusion Fall, by Cartoon Network has a more advanced engine than this piece of puppy poop. More people are probably playing it, too.
You honestly think a Star Wars MMO needs much advertising? Do you really think your average Star Wars freak is going to listen to this board and not try the game, anyway? I know it wouldn't stop me.
I've been back several times since the NGE. And every time I get reminded that some idiot thought a Neverwinter Nights type game engine could be used to make a pseudo third person shooter. Had they not screwed with it, the engine could have worked for what it was intended to do, and wouldn't have a ton of subs, but it would have a significant niche like UO. A game doesn't have to have the latest tech to be fun, but it does require an engine that matches its gameplay.
The biggest sci-fi IP in the world sharing a sci fi MMO market with only 1 other significant game, and they can't even get 50k people to pay 15 bucks a month?
Enjoy the game while it lasts. I feel bad for the current dev team, cuz I bet they know it's all over soon. Only solace is that it'll probably be a relief to no longer have this albotross of a game around their neck.
Press space bar and character jump in SWG. Been like that for a long time.
Due to this, I am a bit more worried about some of the new games that are coming. TOR is always mentioned as the game that will "kill" SWG. But TOR has no guarantee. I mean. Look at WAR, AOC, Tabula Rasa etc. even a all-star development team is no guarantee for success. That said most of us have not seen TOR in action. And it might become an awesome game.
No... that's an EMOTE. It's not MOVEMENT. If you jump to hop a flight of stairs from the side, you still get blocked, even if you have visually cleared the obstacle. I know because... well, I've played it since they bound the emote to the spacebar; it wasn't always there. It never used to be bound there because it had no practical purpose. but even now it STILL has no practical purpose because the 2d movement engine is the same.
In other MMO's, jumping is useful for manuevering around rough terrain, and in many cases, your toon can hop a foot tall or so obstacle without you even having to jump. the SWG engine assumes your jedi is such an idiot that they don't know to lift their foot and step over the tiniest obstacle.
That would be bad in an MMO. In a hybrid 3rd person shooter, it's FATAL. If TR used that engine it wouldn't have lasted 3 months.
Whether age has anything to do with the SWG player base, it's hard to say. I think you're half right. I think that the majority of SWG people that play are people that know little about MMO's and love Star Wars, and have never tried another MMO made in the past 5 years.
If I were SOE, I'd shut down all but 1 server, cease future content development, and leave a skeleton bug hunting team to eliminate current issues. That way you could keep the game going indefinitely for that miniscule few that are willing to put up with it while making a few bucks. A win-win.
I won't say TOR is a SWG killer. SWG is a SWG killer. But I'm pretty certain that TOR subs are going to make SWG's look pretty silly. Likely, it will outdo SWG's peak numbers significantly.
I am not going to post more in this tread now as I feel that the blind hate it too strong. But I will end by saying that no matter what people feel about SWG. Just look at every feature of that game today and compare it with other games currently on the marked and tell me witch other games that have all these features and that can compare.
OK, I'll bite.
I'd say, that one of the biggest things in gameplay, particularly a game that tries to be a hybrid shooter, is the ability to move.
Can your jedi.... oh... JUMP? A lame dwarf in any MMO made in the last 5 years can. They can also walk up a flight of stairs without worrying about getting too close to the corner and getting blocked. They can also step over a little rock without stopping cold. They can also take run behind a boulder and actually have it give them cover from fire. These are the kinds of things that are a minimum for something attempting to be a fps hybrid game. And most MMO's have them. Not SWG.
Fusion Fall, by Cartoon Network has a more advanced engine than this piece of puppy poop. More people are probably playing it, too.
You honestly think a Star Wars MMO needs much advertising? Do you really think your average Star Wars freak is going to listen to this board and not try the game, anyway? I know it wouldn't stop me.
I've been back several times since the NGE. And every time I get reminded that some idiot thought a Neverwinter Nights type game engine could be used to make a pseudo third person shooter. Had they not screwed with it, the engine could have worked for what it was intended to do, and wouldn't have a ton of subs, but it would have a significant niche like UO. A game doesn't have to have the latest tech to be fun, but it does require an engine that matches its gameplay.
The biggest sci-fi IP in the world sharing a sci fi MMO market with only 1 other significant game, and they can't even get 50k people to pay 15 bucks a month?
Enjoy the game while it lasts. I feel bad for the current dev team, cuz I bet they know it's all over soon. Only solace is that it'll probably be a relief to no longer have this albotross of a game around their neck.
Press space bar and character jump in SWG. Been like that for a long time.
Due to this, I am a bit more worried about some of the new games that are coming. TOR is always mentioned as the game that will "kill" SWG. But TOR has no guarantee. I mean. Look at WAR, AOC, Tabula Rasa etc. even a all-star development team is no guarantee for success. That said most of us have not seen TOR in action. And it might become an awesome game.
No... that's an EMOTE. It's not MOVEMENT. If you jump to hop a flight of stairs from the side, you still get blocked, even if you have visually cleared the obstacle. I know because... well, I've played it since they bound the emote to the spacebar; it wasn't always there. It never used to be bound there because it had no practical purpose. but even now it STILL has no practical purpose because the 2d movement engine is the same.
In other MMO's, jumping is useful for manuevering around rough terrain, and in many cases, your toon can hop a foot tall or so obstacle without you even having to jump. the SWG engine assumes your jedi is such an idiot that they don't know to lift their foot and step over the tiniest obstacle.
That would be bad in an MMO. In a hybrid 3rd person shooter, it's FATAL. If TR used that engine it wouldn't have lasted 3 months.
Whether age has anything to do with the SWG player base, it's hard to say. I think you're half right. I think that the majority of SWG people that play are people that know little about MMO's and love Star Wars, and have never tried another MMO made in the past 5 years.
If I were SOE, I'd shut down all but 1 server, cease future content development, and leave a skeleton bug hunting team to eliminate current issues. That way you could keep the game going indefinitely for that miniscule few that are willing to put up with it while making a few bucks. A win-win.
I won't say TOR is a SWG killer. SWG is a SWG killer. But I'm pretty certain that TOR subs are going to make SWG's look pretty silly. Likely, it will outdo SWG's peak numbers significantly.
Well I have never considered SWG to be an FPS or even trying to be. Autotarget is back in the game and fighting in swg is basically equal to fighting in wow or the majority of mmorpgs out there. Click on enemy and use a "spell" or action from your actionbar..
I do not think they every tried to make SWG like counterstrike. They just tried to add a little more of a feeling that you were engaged in the battle by removing autotarget and making targeting manual with NGE... but since autotarget is back in the game now, I dont think that the game should be confused with an FPS in any way. Nor that it every tried to be an FPS.
I did not like the removal of autotarget back in NGE, but now that I have the option of using both. I actually enjoy it. It is one of the things that makes SWG stand out as different. And that is the essence of SWG. Lots and lots of options.
All of the following are quotes about SWG from the O.P. either in this thread or in numerous other threads on various forums that he appears to be spamming on behalf of SOE:
"Well I have never considered SWG to be an FPS or even trying to be." NGE attempted to turn SWG into an FPS game. The previous combat system has never been restored. They simply bolted auto-attack onto their poorly functioning FPS mechanic.
"it is not as bad as it was just after NGE was released. Since you can respec your character, and have more than one character now (as pre CU)." Pre-cu never allowed you to have more than one character. This is just wrong, poor communication, or outright deception.
"Press space bar and character jump in SWG. Been like that for a long time." In context this was a claim that jump actually did something in the game. Truth be told, you can't jump over anything. Jump is an emote. It's there for looks only. It does not interact with the game environment.
"What I found was a community and people playing and enjoying a game in a scale that instantly reminded me of the best Days before NGE." Claims that the population is anywhere near what was in game in the best days before NGE are outrageously misleading.
"One of the professions or class in a MMORPG that I find truly unique is the Entertainer of SWG...This is a really unique experience and being there dancing the night away in a cantina, while other players comes in to get their buffs (and remove battle fatigue) is a consept I would love to see in more MMORPGs." Other players come in to get buffs and remove battle fatigue? Not since early 2005, even before the NGE. This was removed from the game, and never restored, and yet here we have an endorsement for the game claiming it is still an enjoyable feature.
"Yes.. and it [TCG loot items] does not seem to be a big issue since its mostly fluff. The complains are not deep or serious. I don't think this is an issue at all." There have been a number of controversies about TCG, one of the main ones was that the items affect gameplay. The items are not fluff, and they are not a non-issue. In fact, TCG tournaments are illegal in numerous states. In my view, this is a very real issue.
All of the following are quotes about SWG from the O.P. either in this thread or in numerous other threads on various forums that he appears to be spamming on behalf of SOE: "Well I have never considered SWG to be an FPS or even trying to be." NGE attempted to turn SWG into an FPS game. The previous combat system has never been restored. They simply bolted auto-attack onto their poorly functioning FPS mechanic. "it is not as bad as it was just after NGE was released. Since you can respec your character, and have more than one character now (as pre CU)." Pre-cu never allowed you to have more than one character. This is just wrong, poor communication, or outright deception. "Press space bar and character jump in SWG. Been like that for a long time." In context this was a claim that jump actually did something in the game. Truth be told, you can't jump over anything. Jump is an emote. It's there for looks only. It does not interact with the game environment. "What I found was a community and people playing and enjoying a game in a scale that instantly reminded me of the best Days before NGE." Claims that the population is anywhere near what was in game in the best days before NGE are outrageously misleading. "One of the professions or class in a MMORPG that I find truly unique is the Entertainer of SWG...This is a really unique experience and being there dancing the night away in a cantina, while other players comes in to get their buffs (and remove battle fatigue) is a consept I would love to see in more MMORPGs." Other players come in to get buffs and remove battle fatigue? Not since early 2005, even before the NGE. This was removed from the game, and never restored, and yet here we have an endorsement for the game claiming it is still an enjoyable feature. "Yes.. and it [TCG loot items] does not seem to be a big issue since its mostly fluff. The complains are not deep or serious. I don't think this is an issue at all." There have been a number of controversies about TCG, one of the main ones was that the items affect gameplay. The items are not fluff, and they are not a non-issue. In fact, TCG tournaments are illegal in numerous states. In my view, this is a very real issue.
Some of the O.P.s misleading claims have been explained away as poor english skills. Perhaps that is a factor. But can all of these grossly misleading statements about the game, and can all of the spamming of various sub-forums all on behalf of S.O.E. be explained by language skills? Personally, I don't think so. Please stop the spamming and sharing information about SWG that is extremely misleading.
Did you read all my posts in this thread ?.. or just the first one. Because I have put light to things in replies. The thing about characters was a little clumsy language by me in my first post but I mentioned that in one of my replies..
I am very well aware of the fact that SWG only had one character back then as I had to buy 5 accounts go get everything that I wanted done back then ( I wanted 5 characters on same server ). That said. I liked that you could only have one character. It made you attatch to that character a lot more.. but that is another story. The way the game are now. More than one character is good.
I think that you misunderstood what I wrote about entertainers. I dont understand why to be honest.. I will just repeat what I basically wrote in another reply in this thread:
I love being entertainer a lot more today compared to when I was a master musician or master dancer back in old and pre CU SWG, as we now can buff more than 30 buffs compared to old days where you only could remove battle fatigue and buff one buff.
If you were musician (back then in 2003,04,05) you had one buff and if you were dancer you had another. So a dancer and musician together could buff 2 buffs. Today all entertainers can buff more than 30 (have not counted so cant give exact number) and we (I say we because I am entertainer in SWG) + we now have a nice User interface (UI that we did not have back then) where receiver can see the buffs and we can put in a covercharge. Back in the days you basically had to trust your customer or ask for a tip. The UI today is an improvement.
And about entertainer, I like entertainer so much because I enjoy standing in the cantina and just chat with the people that comes in and asks for buffs + chatting with other entertainers. Some of the people that come by are almost muted but lots of them are nice people and that way I have received more friends in one week in SWG than a month or two in other games I have played. Its a very social way of playing and one that I enjoy a lot. (personal preference obviously)
And also regarding entertainers. Back in the days.. pre cu. the one buff we could give out was gettin cometition from bots. I remember MD bots or MD dancer bots.. standing 24/7 macrobuffin people. That was highly annoyting and something we complained about at forums a lot.
Macrobuffin is not possible today (at leas not easy unless you have some serious programming skills and are using illegal software witch most of us cant or will not) Before you can apply a buff today. You have to looke at a little picture and count how many symbols you see and type that in. Thats really handy.
The server that I was on PRE -CU never had "Extremely heavy population" (tagged at loginpage) as Starsider (where I am today) have. I never saw that many people nowhere back in the days.
In swg. TCG items does not affect gameplay in any other way than that someone wants to buy those items. They are no bigger problem for SWG than wow trading card items are for Wow. It seems however that in EQ2 they will affect gameplay. But that is another story. Items you get are just fluff and not game breaking in any ways. But SWG unlike most games are full of fluff items from patches, vet rewards, collections and so on. Lots of cool stuff to put in your house.
Originally posted by blueshadow In swg. TCG items does not affect gameplay in any other way than that someone wants to buy those items. They are no bigger problem for SWG than wow trading card items are for Wow. It seems however that in EQ2 they will affect gameplay. But that is another story. Items you get are just fluff and not game breaking in any ways. But SWG unlike most games are full of fluff items from patches, vet rewards, collections and so on. Lots of cool stuff to put in your house.
Oh come on now.
TCG is being used as in game currency for SWG. That affects gameplay.
SOE puts more effort into creating content for a loot card than it does for the actual updates. That affects gameplay.
SOE has given more updates to loot cards than it has to certain professions in YEARS. That affects gameply.
I'm sorry blueshadow, some things you say are just completely out of the realm of believable.
As for entertainers in pre-nge, yes there were issues and they were limited. I have already stated this before, soe ignored the base game for two years. Instead of enhancing and fixing, they focused on expansions ($$) and throwing out 2 entire versions of the game to draw in more people ($$). If the original game had the same four years the nge has had you would see a vastly improved game.
Entertainers now offer 30 buffs? Great, but I thought the soe team said the game was hampered down by to many buffs some time ago and they removed most from the game. This is the lack of consistancy that has produced suck a topsy turvy game design that has resulted in... well inconsistancy. Players have to live in fear of what the next patch will break or alter.
Originally posted by blueshadow In swg. TCG items does not affect gameplay in any other way than that someone wants to buy those items. They are no bigger problem for SWG than wow trading card items are for Wow. It seems however that in EQ2 they will affect gameplay. But that is another story. Items you get are just fluff and not game breaking in any ways. But SWG unlike most games are full of fluff items from patches, vet rewards, collections and so on. Lots of cool stuff to put in your house.
Oh come on now.
TCG is being used as in game currency for SWG. That affects gameplay.
SOE puts more effort into creating content for a loot card than it does for the actual updates. That affects gameplay.
SOE has given more updates to loot cards than it has to certain professions in YEARS. That affects gameply.
I'm sorry blueshadow, some things you say are just completely out of the realm of believable.
As for entertainers in pre-nge, yes there were issues and they were limited. I have already stated this before, soe ignored the base game for two years. Instead of enhancing and fixing, they focused on expansions ($$) and throwing out 2 entire versions of the game to draw in more people ($$). If the original game had the same four years the nge has had you would see a vastly improved game.
Entertainers now offer 30 buffs? Great, but I thought the soe team said the game was hampered down by to many buffs some time ago and they removed most from the game. This is the lack of consistancy that has produced suck a topsy turvy game design that has resulted in... well inconsistancy. Players have to live in fear of what the next patch will break or alter.
With all respect.
Credits are used as ingame currency in SWG. Trading card items just sells for (sometimes) insane amount of them. But you dont need any of the trading card items to play the game so thats why they are not game braking.
And most people get more than enough fluff from the stuff thats already there. I already have more than 1000 fluff items in my bunker and I am not playing trade card game.
In EQ2.. it seems like Trading card items will open up dungeons for players (not 100% sure about this).. thats a different story.
If you read the latest patch notes and previous. You will probably see that they put a lot more effort into the actuall game than just adding a few new 3d items to a trading card game. + even if you do not play the trading card game you get free items that you can put in your house.
People obviously pay insane mount of credits for some of these, but they do so with vet rewards too. I sold my barc speeder the other day for 30 mill credits. That said. My tailoring items sold from my tailor shop.. sells like hotcakes.
But it seems like SOE is trying to change this, by letting more and more of items that you get like that be bound to character.
And think about this. Trade cards put items into gameplay. As soon as someone has claimed it. Its in the game. And can be bought by someone that do not play the trading card game. So its another way to bring more fluff items into the game.
--
The essence and irony in lots of critisism (not all, but quite a lot) against SWG is that it comes from people not playing the game at all.. or that have not been there for 4 years.
Lots of stuff has happened and the game is good. But its only good for you if you play it.
We could all wish that more resources would be put into SWG. I play wow too and same accusations is turned against Blizzard. That they are running wow on b-team now etc.. (something they are absolutely not doing).
A new expansion would be awesome. Awesome because what is really good would have been even better.
But who knows what may or may not come?
And what wrote as OP in this thread still stands in my mind. SWG today is a very good game, in my humble opinion its even better than before.. but obviously, like all good games.
SWG today will not make everyone happy. Its FAR from perfect. But still very good. And its the only true Sandbox out there (I do not count in EVE as the avatar, being spaceship is not everyones cup of tea). Obviously Eve is an amazingly good game for the ones that likes it.
The only thing that I realise is that I these types of posts do not work in SWG veteran refuge forums. And since I am no longer an SWG Veteran refuge (I used to be).. I guess I don't really belong in this place. And this thread is probably long enough already.
But.. last words: Please allow people to enjoy SWG. And allow them to tell what they enjoy about it. Gaming is not life. Its for fun. And sometimes I feel someone is taking gaming way too serious. I guess I should be carefull of what I am saying now since I play games 4-5 hours everyday haha.. but thats my own problem.
I mean.. if someone say that SWG is a pile of crap.. should that be more belivable than actually someone that have played it and plays it say what they enjoy about it? SWG is game that do suffer from a strong voiced poulation of vets that will claim its just that.. a pile of poo or whatever... And I cant take such persons seriously. At least its unfair to tell that to persons who have not played the game.
Originally posted by blueshadow If you read the latest patch notes and previous. You will probably see that they put a lot more effort into the actuall game than just adding new items to trading cards. The essence and irony in lots of critisism against SWG is that it comes from people not playing the game at all.. or that have not been there for 4 years. Lots of stuff has happened and the game is good. But its only good for you if you play it. We could all wish that more resources would be put into SWG. A new expansion would be awesome. Awesome because what is really good would have been even better. But who knows what may come? And what wrote as OP in this thread still stands in my mind. SWG today is a very good game but obviously, like all good games. It will not make everyone happy. Its FAR from perfect. But still very good. And its the only true Sandbox out there (I do not count in EVE as the avatar, being spaceship is not everyones cup of tea). Obviously Eve is an amazingly good game for the ones that likes it.
Did you watch the video I posted of the SWG fan faire panel? You know the one where paying members complain to soe about the card game getting more updates than the actual game? That pretty much crushes your safety net that it is only non-customers complaining. You work so hard to find an excuse to discredit the people posting that you completely miss what is being discussed.
Just because you chose to subscribe doesn't mean you are more educated and have the only valid opinion. It isn't exactly hard to activate a vet trial and play the game. I understand that you like aspects of the game, but that doesn't mean you get to make baseless assumptions about anyone who disagrees with you.
Furthermore, just because you enjoy the game it doesn't make your opinion superior and more believable than someone who doesn't. I would go so far as to say you hide behind your enjoyment of the game to avoid some very harsh, but true situations that exist.
You enjoying the game doesn't make other people wrong.
Originally posted by blueshadow If you read the latest patch notes and previous. You will probably see that they put a lot more effort into the actuall game than just adding new items to trading cards. The essence and irony in lots of critisism against SWG is that it comes from people not playing the game at all.. or that have not been there for 4 years. Lots of stuff has happened and the game is good. But its only good for you if you play it. We could all wish that more resources would be put into SWG. A new expansion would be awesome. Awesome because what is really good would have been even better. But who knows what may come? And what wrote as OP in this thread still stands in my mind. SWG today is a very good game but obviously, like all good games. It will not make everyone happy. Its FAR from perfect. But still very good. And its the only true Sandbox out there (I do not count in EVE as the avatar, being spaceship is not everyones cup of tea). Obviously Eve is an amazingly good game for the ones that likes it.
Did you watch the video I posted of the SWG fan faire panel? You know the one where paying members complain to soe about the card game getting more updates than the actual game? That pretty much crushes your safety net that it is only non-customers complaining. You work so hard to find an excuse to discredit the people posting that you completely miss what is being discussed.
Just because you chose to subscribe doesn't mean you are more educated and have the only valid opinion. It isn't exactly hard to activate a vet trial and play the game. I understand that you like aspects of the game, but that doesn't mean you get to make baseless assumptions about anyone who disagrees with you.
I saw it.. but I have seen so many videos from so many games fan faires.. and there are always people "complaining" or . giving constructive feedback about almost anything.. ( Since most people are just passsionate about their games.. calling it complaints might be wrong.)
Maybe not the best feature of the game for everyone,, but certainly not game breaking.
I only wish that they had made those card for real. I would have collected them then.
If they start to add things like "best in slot" items.. or dungeons that are only accessible if you play or have trading card game.. then I would completely agree with you.
Again only my point of view. As a current SWG player I don't see much problems with it.. So far.
But yes.. people, including myself would love to see more resources put into SWG. Not because its horrible, but because its good and we want more of it. I think that is the case for those at that fan faire too.. since people traveling to fan faires are fans of agame.. and I never claimed SOE is doing everything right.. maybe trading card proves to be wrong.. SWG is not perfect. No games are perfect.
Comments
The ironic thing about SWG. Is that the people with the strongest opinions about that game are those that actually do not play it and with all respect towards them. They simply do not know what they are talking about any longer.
And every time someone like myself post anything positive about SWG. The attacks towards the game start. And its unfair.
The game is good. Its actually one of the best. And the reason why it does not have wow numbers are due to at least theese things:
1. People are scared away from even trying it reading all the hate towards the game and SOE. Sheep mentality is very human. Most of ithe critisism is out of date and does not hold water anylonger.
2. SOE has a good game. But they should marked the game a lot better. Its a game that absolutely deserve that. And many people would be amazed to see all the possibillities of a game where you can craft, entertain, build playercities, be a bounty hunter hunting players, take part in battle between imperials and rebells. It is simply a game that has more things going than most games. Sadly enough. I wish develpoers had started making more games like this.
3. Veterans left the game in anger and frustration after NGE. I did, so I know "my own people" :P They come here and basically are not happy with any game because there is not a sandbox game made. And they let their frustration being pointed at SOE and SWG. Maybe SOE needs some constructive critisism sometimes like all game makers does. But it does not take away the fact that SWG is a fantastic game and SOE at some point after 2007 understood that sandbox is the way to stay for SWG and brought back those elements and they have a really cool and dedicated dev team on that game.
If veterans that once loved SWG had the courage and decency to look back and give it another try, instead of keep comming back to theese forums year after year. Repeating the same outdated critisism towards SOE and the game, this place would be better for all of us. We are not talking about constructive critisism here. Much of it is notorious hate towards SOE and a hate that the sheep mentality makes stronger. Its almost a movement.
Ultimately this is about persons. We are persons. Everything said and wrote on this forum is persons meanings. Everything should obviously be respected. But if you take part in a discussion like this. It is going to be exactly the way that it is.
This thread probably has gone a bit downhill so I will end by saying what I started originaly:
SWG is today second best or better than pre NGE. That is my honest opinion and I am not alone. Most returning vets that actually have an interest of finding the truth about SWG feels that same. I meet those people every day when I am online.
Hahahahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahhahahhahhhahahhahahhahahhahhahahha.......
Put down the SWG/SOE TCG bong for second, and dispute any of these:
1: 250k-350k people played SWG concurrently at its height, and slightly less than 200k were playing at the time of the NGE (this was documented, partly by SOE. Now, the 10-20k accts (comprising 20-40k toons) are stuffed onto 12 servers in an attempt to make the game feel populated.
2. Now, there are so few players that 12 servers just closed, and people on 4-5 of the remaining servers want free trips off those. (see your precious O-boards for that)
3. For what is much worse in SWG as opposed to pre-NGE, and if it is absent completely, then yes, it is worse: 20 of the 32 professions in their entirety are gone , linear based levling, about 30% of the crafted or produced items in the game (meds, spice, tamable pets, baby animals, buff packs) gone, 40% of remaining items uselss, flexible skill system, many, missing animations, non-stupid combat speed, a UI that was not a complete POS as it is now, specials that always fired, deep player interdependency, no "magic" abilities taking the place of player content or items (magic healing, magic "stat" increases on weapons and armor, magic rezing, magic disappearing, etc etc), an insane list of dozens of buffs, NPC cities are now useless (except for starport and vendors), massive lag, useless buildings (med centers, garages, and more), a massive grind for everything and each new thing is a BIGGER grind than the last, No Trade everything, and on and on and on..... All of that was BETTER and useful during the pre-NGE and now isn't.
4. SWG used to have advertising during the pre-NGE, now doesn't.
5. SWG used to have expansions during the pre-NGE, now doesn't.
6. SWG used to have game cards during the pre-NGE, that people could find and now don't.
You like the game as it is now, fine, there is no accounting for taste, but don't lie to people about the things that are objectively bad/wrong/broken. You like the game, the vast majority of people that have EVER played SWG no longer do and will never again pay to play.
There are plenty of vet trials and we "bitter" vets know EXACTLY what the game has and doesn't have.
Opinion is opinion, and fact is fact. And the FACT is, that if SWG were as non-crappy as you say, more people would play it, despite anything, anyone said on the boards or any other factor. A good game sells itself, a bad one can barely be given away. SWG had its time and it has blown its chance to be great. The overwhelming majority Its customers are gone and will not come back. And they don't. And won't. Ever.
12 closed servers says they don't, people begging for free transfers off remaining servers says they don't, and the abject lack of business support SOE shows SWG shows they no longer care.
It is always the same excuse with people trying to bolster soe games
If soe would only adverstize more people would play. Angry former players are preventing the game from swelling. You don't have a subscription so you have not seen how awesome the game is.
Do you see angry wow haters here destroying wow? How about eve or any number of the other games that get trashed here everyday.
Listen friend. My few words on this forum cannot stop the power of a giant like soe. The fact is that the game isn't doing well and that is not a result of me posting. You, just like everyone before you, has come here to find someone or something to blame other than the game itself. There is a free trial and despite my harsh criticism people still try the game. So where are they? If this game is so fucking awesome more people would play. They are downloading the trial every single day, so why is the population plummeting?
Honestly if it was a great game people would have gotten over it and returned to play it. There are millions of potential customers and it is just stupid to think they none of them have heard of the game, tried it or are scared away by some angry person on mmorpg.com. If people loved the game they would tell their friends and their friend would try. The cold ugly reality is that this is not happening. If I swallow my pride [as you call it], that will not change the game. I've tried it, really I have and I would love nothing more than to enjoy an mmo in the original trilogy setting, but swg is a total mess of a game. I don't have to look far to find another game that will not only offer me a superior experience, but it won't try to nickle and dime me to death for a tiny amount of content.
For heavens sake, this game has the name STAR WARS on it. How on earth can you blame anything but the game for not attracting and retaining players?
Lastly stop attacking the people who post and try debating their points. Really try it.
It is always the same excuse with people trying to bolster soe games
If soe would only adverstize more people would play. Angry former players are preventing the game from swelling. You don't have a subscription so you have not seen how awesome the game is.
Do you see angry wow haters here destroying wow? How about eve or any number of the other games that get trashed here everyday.
Listen friend. My few words on this forum cannot stop the power of a giant like soe. The fact is that the game isn't doing well and that is not a result of me posting. You, just like everyone before you, has come here to find someone or something to blame other than the game itself. There is a free trial and despite my harsh criticism people still try the game. So where are they? If this game is so fucking awesome more people would play. They are downloading the trial every single day, so why is the population plummeting?
Honestly if it was a great game people would have gotten over it and returned to play it. There are millions of potential customers and it is just stupid to think they none of them have heard of the game, tried it or are scared away by some angry person on mmorpg.com. If people loved the game they would tell their friends and their friend would try. The cold ugly reality is that this is not happening. If I swallow my pride [as you call it], that will not change the game. I've tried it, really I have and I would love nothing more than to enjoy an mmo in the original trilogy setting, but swg is a total mess of a game. I don't have to look far to find another game that will not only offer me a superior experience, but it won't try to nickle and dime me to death for a tiny amount of content.
For heavens sake, this game has the name STAR WARS on it. How on earth can you blame anything but the game for not attracting and retaining players?
Lastly stop attacking the people who post and try debating their points. Really try it.
I guess I am derailing my own thread a little bit now. But since that almost happened instantly I would like to ask you a quesiton.
I ask this in a friendly way and have no hidden agenda by doing so.
You mention its easy to find other solid games. What are you 3 favourite MMORPG games Its not my "business" at all, but its interesting to know what games other people enjoy. And I am not going to reply that you play crap games hehe.. I meant I dont do such things. Every game that someone loves is a good game for that person, just as everyone has a different taste in food and music.
I can tell mine. They are SWG, Wow and LOTR online. But I am constantly looking for other games. Even thought I have trouble finding a game that will replace SWG. Because I am fan of sandbox games.
Even Club Penguin has "player housing" and decorating - that's not as unique to SWG as so many seem to think.
I do agree though...player housing is a CRUCIAL component for any MMO.
Settling for second best? Not on your life. You need to know when to stop going for more, but NEVER settle for 2nd. That is an entirely defeatist attitude.
Selling loot via the TCG rather than in-game mechanics, like crafters and quests (which were why we all played), may be a short term cash windfall, but over time, the players who pay and play for real content (crafters for example) will slip away forever. It's not JUST about the loot for most people.
I did not read everything, but second best to pre-NGE are in no particular order :
Ryzom, EVE Online and Fallen Earth.
Certainly not SWG.
This is all purely my personal opinion.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Even Club Penguin has "player housing" and decorating - that's not as unique to SWG as so many seem to think.
I do agree though...player housing is a CRUCIAL component for any MMO.
Settling for second best? Not on your life. You need to know when to stop going for more, but NEVER settle for 2nd. That is an entirely defeatist attitude.
Selling loot via the TCG rather than in-game mechanics, like crafters and quests (which were why we all played), may be a short term cash windfall, but over time, the players who pay and play for real content (crafters for example) will slip away forever. It's not JUST about the loot for most people.
Agree.
I would be a blind-fan of SWG if I belived everything was just perfect. Far from it, but I havent found a single game yet where it is. I just like the hosuing, the crafting, the entertainers and the freedom that game still has.
And I agree about TOG. If too much focus is set on TCG rather than ingame. I will not bee happy aobut this. But so far I dont think this has happened. If it do its sad, but I still hope and belive that SOE will understand that it would be a wrong direction.
No doubt that SOE has gone too far with trading card games in their game everquest 2. There is a long thread on EQ2 forums about that. It will be interesting to see what happens over there.
Hehe.. I agree about never going for second best. But if the best is gone.. well then second best is the new best?
Ryzom huh? I need to look into that one
Look for me on those boards for the next few hours :P
TBH, I think this philosophy is probably closer to their business model than you think. They have to believe in the continual turnover of customers, their attitude seems to reveal that much. And, in "traditional" gaming, player turnover is the norm...so I can see where that attitude comes from. SWG was not a "traditional" game though - a fact SoE has never realized.
There is a base and a following of SWG unlike ANY game I've ever seen. SWG was never for the "beginning" MMOer like WoW was, SWG was "an elegant MMO for a more mature time". Players had direct control over the world...from the cities and economy we created to the places we placed our harvesters. I just wonder how well an updated SWG (original release + JTL) would do if it were released today. Better graphics, better performance, 3rd axis, collision, etc.
I think Smed ONLY sees the $$$ slipping away and knows he has act quick to get as much out of SWG as he can. Short term $ grabs, not longevity, appear to be his only focus.
All those things are still in the game just like before + lots of them are improved a lot. There are new houses too now. And you can even change color on the interior now. + Houses have windows.
Characters moves like before. Expertise brought back lots of old templates. Its still a elegant game far more complex than most. But lots of the added features have made the game a little easier for the beginner to get into.
What really strikes me when I read all theese "hate" posts. Is that the mentality (that i had too before, I have to admit that) of the persons is a shadow of the past. The flawed logic of the critisism has not changed since 2005 and days and weeks after NGE. Belive me that game has changed a lot and too the better . So an update on the stance bout how the game nees a serious update.
Forgive me for saying this. But the hate is getting a little old. And the arguments sounds like they were invented in 2005 at a time when they actually were right. They are not today.
I just wish that many haters would go back and see themselves. They would be surprised. Most "haters" that I know who have gone back have just had to admit they were wrong .. or right in 2005 but not in 2009.
I have to think you're not reading what people are saying. Did you see Daffid's quote from the EQ2 community manager about the game changes? The one where SOE knows that many people won't like the changes but they're going to do them anyways?
I am not saying SOE is perfect. Far from it. But who are? And what they do to EQ2 does not interest me much as I am really pleased with what they have done to SWG. When urge is there to play fantasy theemed game I play LOTRonline or WOW.
And there are other companies in other branches of my life that worries me a lot more. Back to SWG. That game has improved big time. All that game needs now is better marketing. Its an amazing game today. (I never belived I would say anything like this.. but its the truth)
You realize that this is the attitude that drove many players away from SWG time and time again don't you? You see that they have the same attitude now?
I know.. but there is no doubtt that the attitude towards SWG is changing.. Just do a Youtube search and watch the SWG videos and read the comments. I was amazed myself discovering this.. but when I went back to the game. I understood why.
You see that even if SWG has some new bells and whistles people don't want to do business with a company that's going to give them the shaft?
The amount I pay for playing SWG every months is worth it. I get more angry if I order a pizza and discover that they have forgotten to put cheese on it.
You read the comments about SOE breaking the video compatibility of one of their other games, admitting it, but not fixing it for 2 years didn't you? Since this is in another of their games, it's obviously not related to NGE rage.
I don't know any details of this. I have had no problem running SWG on any of my 4 computers that are of different brands and age. So theese things do not worry me.
Have you read how people feel about the recent TCG loot items in SWG? If you have, you'll realize that these are not "old" issues. They are current issues that seem to demonstrate the same attitude that has turned so many people away from SWG over and over again.
Yes.. and it does not seem to be a big issue since its mostly fluff. The complains are not deep or serious. I don't think this is an issue at all. Everyone gets free items every month even if not playing the game. I just got some cool stuff for my houe and are happy. And as crafter everything I make is still in high demand. EQ2 is a different story though. But I am talking about SWG so I dont bother with EQ2. Never liked that game very much.
Btw, you also told people to go back to SWG because you can have more than one character per server, just like pre-cu. What are you talking about? Pre-cu, you could only have one character per server unless you unlocked a jedi. Did you play pre-cu, or did you forget this central feature of the game?
Oh yes. Played since December 2004 and untill NGE.
I am well aware that we only had one character before. I had several accounts due to that. What you point out is a result of my my clumsy englsih:
What I wrote:
Since you can respec your character, and have more than one character now (as pre CU).
What I mean = Since you can respec your character and unlike pre CU where you could only have one character you can NOW have more than one.
You also just posted somewhere telling people that Entertainer is so cool in SWG because you can heal Battle Fatigue. Did they bring Battle Fatigue and healing back?
What I tried to say is that entertainers are really nice because its a uniqu play style. I just love hanging in cantina giving buffs and chatting with people.
Back in the days, pre NGE, healing battle fatigue and giving your one buff and hoping for a tip while being really underdog compared to doctor was all you could do, I mean apart from socialising.
Today entertainers are even more "popular" than ever amongst other player because UNLIKE before with only battle fatigue healing and one buf.. entertainers today have more than 30 buffs to offer and a real UI where we can put in covercharge. AND since image designer, Dancer and Musician is merged the whole package is just more compleete. Its a really fun class.. but it will not appeal to everyone. But thos that it appeal too will not find such a unique class in any other game. period.
You also claim just above that SWG characters move just like they used to. Are you serious? Did they slow the movement combat down to pre-cu speed and restore all of the missing animations and skills that all of the various professions had? What's your game telling people all of this stuff?
What I am saying is that after NGE. I did not know how to move. Keybindings and stuff were so changed. Now old bindings are back in the game. Autotarget is an option and so on. The game moves like the old game. Many of the animations are back and there are also new.
Forgive me for asking. But have you played SWG recently? Because I can understand you if you played it before NGE and left directly after the changes. Game was broken after NGE. And in a horrible state. But its totally different ship today. Back then it would sink to the bottom. Today it can sail on every ocan there is and be a proud liner.
You may certainly ask if I've played since the NGE, and the answer is yes. I returned twice to the game at various points post-nge. Each time I played a full 60 day time card to see if I could get back into the game. Each time I was disappointed, for reasons already stated.
Besides me, you'll find that many of us who post here have been in the game more recently, or continue to play it (e.g. Fishermage). TUX was very recently a senator for the game, so to suggest he hasn't played recently would be entirely incorrect.
So, the notion that people who post here have not played since the NGE is quite simply incorrect. Ask TUX when he last played if you like for specifics. I'm sure he'll tell you, and since he was a senator he knows the game inside and out. Ask Fisher what he thinks, since the last time we chatted he was still in the game. Ask JYcowboy what he thinks of the game; he also is a current player and he and his wife (wonderful folks btw) have always run one of the best guilds in the game. He told me via email just yesterday about his thoughts on the game, which he currently plays.
Okay, now that we've debunked one myth, let's move on to another. TCG loot items are just fluff: this is a myth. They most certainly are not fluff and affect gameplay in a number of ways. They offer buffs or vehicles with superior capabilities just to name two examples. These are not fluff items, they impact game performance.
Another myth related to this is that there are no real problems associated with the TCG. The TCG tournaments were in fact banned from numerous states due to conflict with laws that protect gamers. These tournaments had you pay to enter, and gave you a random chance of winning prizes. This amounts to gambling, which is okay in these states if certain rules are followed to ensure a fair game. The rules were not followed, and it appears this is why the tournaments were banned.
In addition to this, numerous posts had people crying foul after they spent ridiculous amounts of money on a random chance to obtain specific items. People were also appalled when a loot item that gave bonuses to crafters (again not a fluff item) was nerfed on the Test Centre. They paid real cash for a chance to get the bonus, were lucky enough to win, and then SOE planned to nerf it. You may choose to dismiss all of this, but if you do, you are turning a blind eye to issues that others find quite troubling.
I appreciate you clarifying that alternate control schemes are now available. This is good, but I also want to highlight that this does not mean that previous movement or combat abilities have been restored in full. Many enjoyable templates remain absent from the game, along with all of their skills and enjoyable animations.
I also want to restate your clarifications that Battle Fatigue has not returned to the game, as your other post appeared to indicate, and that the respec system is not at all like the character building system of the pre-cu days.
Hopefully, by this point you can feel that you are certainly entitled to enjoy your game and speak positively about it. I hope you are equally aware that people do not dislike it simply out of blind hate or because they have not played it since 2005. No, what I think you have are people who honestly do not like what the game is today, or how SOE appears to continue to deal with customers.
I respect your opinion, and invite you to respect the opinion of others who may disagree with you for valid reasons.
For interest sake, instead of telling us that people who don't like the game are blind and hateful, or that there is no controversy about the loot items, or that none of us have played lately, I'd love to hear about specific content that has been recently added that you find enjoyable.
How do you like the heroic instances, for example? How do you feel about the beast-master system? The restoration of some form of creature handling was very important to some. How is it to have Hoth in the game finally? Do you enjoy the collections? People can point out the zombies seem silly in a StarWars game, but how is the gameplay? Does it work? Is it fun?
I think there are many ways you can share your joy for the game without misrepresenting it in some way (intentionally or unintentionally) and without misrepresenting or insulting people who disagree with you. Tbh, I'd love to hear that.
While you're at it, instead of turning a blind eye to some of the very real issues that continue to turn many gamers away from SWG, why don't you listen to other gamers and try to get SOE's attention? If they listen to gamers, acknowledge real issues, and actually do something positive about them, you'll see a lot of animosity towards SOE vanish; although it may take a long time for them to earn back the trust they seem to have broken. My two cents.
No. Simply no. Ive been back. Two times. SWG today is utter crap.
M M O S S I N C E |1998|
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T I M E I N V E S T E D |uo|swg|wow|fe|
B E T A T E S T E R |rz|tr|hgl|potbs|potc|gw|hz|wish|fe|wow|df|war|allods|cog|lu|
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I am not going to post more in this tread now as I feel that the blind hate it too strong. But I will end by saying that no matter what people feel about SWG. Just look at every feature of that game today and compare it with other games currently on the marked and tell me witch other games that have all these features and that can compare.
OK, I'll bite.
I'd say, that one of the biggest things in gameplay, particularly a game that tries to be a hybrid shooter, is the ability to move.
Can your jedi.... oh... JUMP? A lame dwarf in any MMO made in the last 5 years can. They can also walk up a flight of stairs without worrying about getting too close to the corner and getting blocked. They can also step over a little rock without stopping cold. They can also take run behind a boulder and actually have it give them cover from fire. These are the kinds of things that are a minimum for something attempting to be a fps hybrid game. And most MMO's have them. Not SWG.
Fusion Fall, by Cartoon Network has a more advanced engine than this piece of puppy poop. More people are probably playing it, too.
You honestly think a Star Wars MMO needs much advertising? Do you really think your average Star Wars freak is going to listen to this board and not try the game, anyway? I know it wouldn't stop me.
I've been back several times since the NGE. And every time I get reminded that some idiot thought a Neverwinter Nights type game engine could be used to make a pseudo third person shooter. Had they not screwed with it, the engine could have worked for what it was intended to do, and wouldn't have a ton of subs, but it would have a significant niche like UO. A game doesn't have to have the latest tech to be fun, but it does require an engine that matches its gameplay.
The biggest sci-fi IP in the world sharing a sci fi MMO market with only 1 other significant game, and they can't even get 50k people to pay 15 bucks a month?
Enjoy the game while it lasts. I feel bad for the current dev team, cuz I bet they know it's all over soon. Only solace is that it'll probably be a relief to no longer have this albotross of a game around their neck.
I am not going to post more in this tread now as I feel that the blind hate it too strong. But I will end by saying that no matter what people feel about SWG. Just look at every feature of that game today and compare it with other games currently on the marked and tell me witch other games that have all these features and that can compare.
OK, I'll bite.
I'd say, that one of the biggest things in gameplay, particularly a game that tries to be a hybrid shooter, is the ability to move.
Can your jedi.... oh... JUMP? A lame dwarf in any MMO made in the last 5 years can. They can also walk up a flight of stairs without worrying about getting too close to the corner and getting blocked. They can also step over a little rock without stopping cold. They can also take run behind a boulder and actually have it give them cover from fire. These are the kinds of things that are a minimum for something attempting to be a fps hybrid game. And most MMO's have them. Not SWG.
Fusion Fall, by Cartoon Network has a more advanced engine than this piece of puppy poop. More people are probably playing it, too.
You honestly think a Star Wars MMO needs much advertising? Do you really think your average Star Wars freak is going to listen to this board and not try the game, anyway? I know it wouldn't stop me.
I've been back several times since the NGE. And every time I get reminded that some idiot thought a Neverwinter Nights type game engine could be used to make a pseudo third person shooter. Had they not screwed with it, the engine could have worked for what it was intended to do, and wouldn't have a ton of subs, but it would have a significant niche like UO. A game doesn't have to have the latest tech to be fun, but it does require an engine that matches its gameplay.
The biggest sci-fi IP in the world sharing a sci fi MMO market with only 1 other significant game, and they can't even get 50k people to pay 15 bucks a month?
Enjoy the game while it lasts. I feel bad for the current dev team, cuz I bet they know it's all over soon. Only solace is that it'll probably be a relief to no longer have this albotross of a game around their neck.
Press space bar and character jump in SWG. Been like that for a long time.
I enjoy the game and so do lots of people, And I am sure that SWG will celebrate 10th aniversary. I also get a feeling when playing the game that it generally appeals more to an "older" crowd. Means people over 30 years of age are more likely to like it than younger people. That age group is usually more loyal towards their game as younger people jump more between games and are more open to try new games. This is just generally speaking and is something I know, due to my RL profession.
Due to this, I am a bit more worried about some of the new games that are coming. TOR is always mentioned as the game that will "kill" SWG. But TOR has no guarantee. I mean. Look at WAR, AOC, Tabula Rasa etc. even a all-star development team is no guarantee for success. That said most of us have not seen TOR in action. And it might become an awesome game.
The strenght of SWG though, s that its so different. I fear that most new MMORPG will either be action arcade type game with chat or single player games with chat. Or Wow in a new wrapping. And that is why I strongly think SWG deserves to live.
People think this or that about SOE, but fact is that there are not many developers today that really got courage when it comes to making a different type of games. Most are following a success formula. A lot based on the standard Wow put in 2004. MMORG developement have gone same ways as Movie production. They find a success formula and follows it forever.
About SWG, I can not do anything else than play it, enjoy it and hope that lots of you here are wrong.
We will know for sure within a year or two..
To the O.P.. You've clarified that contrary to what you said in another thread (however unintentionally) battle fatigue has not been returned to the game and pre-cu did not allow you to have more than one character. I appreciate the clarification.
Now, would you care to clarify that the TCG loot items do in fact affect game play? They are not fluff items as you suggested. Would you also mind acknowledging that many of the people who post here (and that I listed by name) either currently play the game, or have just recently quit? They are not bitter people who have not tried the game since 2005 as you said.
Press space bar and character jump in SWG. Been like that for a long time.
Don't insult our intelligence. "Jumping" in SWG is and has always been an emote, not an action. It consists of an animation linked to a statement in spatial.You can't jump over or up onto anything; the game engine doesn't support it.
Buddy i was eating a cookie when i read this and almost choked on the crumbs lmao.
Honestly cut the guy some slack ,he has a game he is enjoying to play,nothing wrong with that.
I prefer people reminiscing the good old days lol,over people claiming their game is the next "WOW killer" or "we have this many million subscribers in first month" ,too many of these threads pop up every day.
I can sum up the 4 basic posts in MMORPG over the last few years..
1 SOE hate
2 WOW is the best
3 DF sucks bad
4 Aion is second best
These 4 topics alone have infested MMORPG with so many boring and ridiculous topics,i some times lose interest to read anything here.More often than not ,i just end up shaking my head thinking..."not again".
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I agree with OP but this place is not the best to speaking about current state of SWG. The anger scale and frustration are so huge here that even Jedi with Force Persuasion will never convince anybody.
Am I the only one that remebers the commercials for the NGE on I think G4 after it was released. I can not remeber was it for the NGE or CU. If you order SWG right now you will get a free pet rock
For me the current SWG is not a game I am intrested in playing but is nice to hear some people enjoy it.
Am I the only one that remebers the commercials for the NGE on I think G4 after it was released. I can not remeber was it for the NGE or CU. If you order SWG right now you will get a free pet rock
For me the current SWG is not a game I am intrested in playing but is nice to hear some people enjoy it.
I think you are quoting me out of context.
Yes I recall the commercials. Also I do not think the solution to swg problems (or eq2 or vanguard or planetside or free realms) is lack of advertising. Soe can advertise them until they are blue in the face, but that will not solve the problem of player retention.
I am not going to post more in this tread now as I feel that the blind hate it too strong. But I will end by saying that no matter what people feel about SWG. Just look at every feature of that game today and compare it with other games currently on the marked and tell me witch other games that have all these features and that can compare.
OK, I'll bite.
I'd say, that one of the biggest things in gameplay, particularly a game that tries to be a hybrid shooter, is the ability to move.
Can your jedi.... oh... JUMP? A lame dwarf in any MMO made in the last 5 years can. They can also walk up a flight of stairs without worrying about getting too close to the corner and getting blocked. They can also step over a little rock without stopping cold. They can also take run behind a boulder and actually have it give them cover from fire. These are the kinds of things that are a minimum for something attempting to be a fps hybrid game. And most MMO's have them. Not SWG.
Fusion Fall, by Cartoon Network has a more advanced engine than this piece of puppy poop. More people are probably playing it, too.
You honestly think a Star Wars MMO needs much advertising? Do you really think your average Star Wars freak is going to listen to this board and not try the game, anyway? I know it wouldn't stop me.
I've been back several times since the NGE. And every time I get reminded that some idiot thought a Neverwinter Nights type game engine could be used to make a pseudo third person shooter. Had they not screwed with it, the engine could have worked for what it was intended to do, and wouldn't have a ton of subs, but it would have a significant niche like UO. A game doesn't have to have the latest tech to be fun, but it does require an engine that matches its gameplay.
The biggest sci-fi IP in the world sharing a sci fi MMO market with only 1 other significant game, and they can't even get 50k people to pay 15 bucks a month?
Enjoy the game while it lasts. I feel bad for the current dev team, cuz I bet they know it's all over soon. Only solace is that it'll probably be a relief to no longer have this albotross of a game around their neck.
Press space bar and character jump in SWG. Been like that for a long time.
Due to this, I am a bit more worried about some of the new games that are coming. TOR is always mentioned as the game that will "kill" SWG. But TOR has no guarantee. I mean. Look at WAR, AOC, Tabula Rasa etc. even a all-star development team is no guarantee for success. That said most of us have not seen TOR in action. And it might become an awesome game.
No... that's an EMOTE. It's not MOVEMENT. If you jump to hop a flight of stairs from the side, you still get blocked, even if you have visually cleared the obstacle. I know because... well, I've played it since they bound the emote to the spacebar; it wasn't always there. It never used to be bound there because it had no practical purpose. but even now it STILL has no practical purpose because the 2d movement engine is the same.
In other MMO's, jumping is useful for manuevering around rough terrain, and in many cases, your toon can hop a foot tall or so obstacle without you even having to jump. the SWG engine assumes your jedi is such an idiot that they don't know to lift their foot and step over the tiniest obstacle.
That would be bad in an MMO. In a hybrid 3rd person shooter, it's FATAL. If TR used that engine it wouldn't have lasted 3 months.
Whether age has anything to do with the SWG player base, it's hard to say. I think you're half right. I think that the majority of SWG people that play are people that know little about MMO's and love Star Wars, and have never tried another MMO made in the past 5 years.
If I were SOE, I'd shut down all but 1 server, cease future content development, and leave a skeleton bug hunting team to eliminate current issues. That way you could keep the game going indefinitely for that miniscule few that are willing to put up with it while making a few bucks. A win-win.
I won't say TOR is a SWG killer. SWG is a SWG killer. But I'm pretty certain that TOR subs are going to make SWG's look pretty silly. Likely, it will outdo SWG's peak numbers significantly.
I am not going to post more in this tread now as I feel that the blind hate it too strong. But I will end by saying that no matter what people feel about SWG. Just look at every feature of that game today and compare it with other games currently on the marked and tell me witch other games that have all these features and that can compare.
OK, I'll bite.
I'd say, that one of the biggest things in gameplay, particularly a game that tries to be a hybrid shooter, is the ability to move.
Can your jedi.... oh... JUMP? A lame dwarf in any MMO made in the last 5 years can. They can also walk up a flight of stairs without worrying about getting too close to the corner and getting blocked. They can also step over a little rock without stopping cold. They can also take run behind a boulder and actually have it give them cover from fire. These are the kinds of things that are a minimum for something attempting to be a fps hybrid game. And most MMO's have them. Not SWG.
Fusion Fall, by Cartoon Network has a more advanced engine than this piece of puppy poop. More people are probably playing it, too.
You honestly think a Star Wars MMO needs much advertising? Do you really think your average Star Wars freak is going to listen to this board and not try the game, anyway? I know it wouldn't stop me.
I've been back several times since the NGE. And every time I get reminded that some idiot thought a Neverwinter Nights type game engine could be used to make a pseudo third person shooter. Had they not screwed with it, the engine could have worked for what it was intended to do, and wouldn't have a ton of subs, but it would have a significant niche like UO. A game doesn't have to have the latest tech to be fun, but it does require an engine that matches its gameplay.
The biggest sci-fi IP in the world sharing a sci fi MMO market with only 1 other significant game, and they can't even get 50k people to pay 15 bucks a month?
Enjoy the game while it lasts. I feel bad for the current dev team, cuz I bet they know it's all over soon. Only solace is that it'll probably be a relief to no longer have this albotross of a game around their neck.
Press space bar and character jump in SWG. Been like that for a long time.
Due to this, I am a bit more worried about some of the new games that are coming. TOR is always mentioned as the game that will "kill" SWG. But TOR has no guarantee. I mean. Look at WAR, AOC, Tabula Rasa etc. even a all-star development team is no guarantee for success. That said most of us have not seen TOR in action. And it might become an awesome game.
No... that's an EMOTE. It's not MOVEMENT. If you jump to hop a flight of stairs from the side, you still get blocked, even if you have visually cleared the obstacle. I know because... well, I've played it since they bound the emote to the spacebar; it wasn't always there. It never used to be bound there because it had no practical purpose. but even now it STILL has no practical purpose because the 2d movement engine is the same.
In other MMO's, jumping is useful for manuevering around rough terrain, and in many cases, your toon can hop a foot tall or so obstacle without you even having to jump. the SWG engine assumes your jedi is such an idiot that they don't know to lift their foot and step over the tiniest obstacle.
That would be bad in an MMO. In a hybrid 3rd person shooter, it's FATAL. If TR used that engine it wouldn't have lasted 3 months.
Whether age has anything to do with the SWG player base, it's hard to say. I think you're half right. I think that the majority of SWG people that play are people that know little about MMO's and love Star Wars, and have never tried another MMO made in the past 5 years.
If I were SOE, I'd shut down all but 1 server, cease future content development, and leave a skeleton bug hunting team to eliminate current issues. That way you could keep the game going indefinitely for that miniscule few that are willing to put up with it while making a few bucks. A win-win.
I won't say TOR is a SWG killer. SWG is a SWG killer. But I'm pretty certain that TOR subs are going to make SWG's look pretty silly. Likely, it will outdo SWG's peak numbers significantly.
Well I have never considered SWG to be an FPS or even trying to be. Autotarget is back in the game and fighting in swg is basically equal to fighting in wow or the majority of mmorpgs out there. Click on enemy and use a "spell" or action from your actionbar..
I do not think they every tried to make SWG like counterstrike. They just tried to add a little more of a feeling that you were engaged in the battle by removing autotarget and making targeting manual with NGE... but since autotarget is back in the game now, I dont think that the game should be confused with an FPS in any way. Nor that it every tried to be an FPS.
I did not like the removal of autotarget back in NGE, but now that I have the option of using both. I actually enjoy it. It is one of the things that makes SWG stand out as different. And that is the essence of SWG. Lots and lots of options.
All of the following are quotes about SWG from the O.P. either in this thread or in numerous other threads on various forums that he appears to be spamming on behalf of SOE:
"Well I have never considered SWG to be an FPS or even trying to be." NGE attempted to turn SWG into an FPS game. The previous combat system has never been restored. They simply bolted auto-attack onto their poorly functioning FPS mechanic.
"it is not as bad as it was just after NGE was released. Since you can respec your character, and have more than one character now (as pre CU)." Pre-cu never allowed you to have more than one character. This is just wrong, poor communication, or outright deception.
"Press space bar and character jump in SWG. Been like that for a long time." In context this was a claim that jump actually did something in the game. Truth be told, you can't jump over anything. Jump is an emote. It's there for looks only. It does not interact with the game environment.
"What I found was a community and people playing and enjoying a game in a scale that instantly reminded me of the best Days before NGE." Claims that the population is anywhere near what was in game in the best days before NGE are outrageously misleading.
"One of the professions or class in a MMORPG that I find truly unique is the Entertainer of SWG...This is a really unique experience and being there dancing the night away in a cantina, while other players comes in to get their buffs (and remove battle fatigue) is a consept I would love to see in more MMORPGs." Other players come in to get buffs and remove battle fatigue? Not since early 2005, even before the NGE. This was removed from the game, and never restored, and yet here we have an endorsement for the game claiming it is still an enjoyable feature.
"Yes.. and it [TCG loot items] does not seem to be a big issue since its mostly fluff. The complains are not deep or serious. I don't think this is an issue at all." There have been a number of controversies about TCG, one of the main ones was that the items affect gameplay. The items are not fluff, and they are not a non-issue. In fact, TCG tournaments are illegal in numerous states. In my view, this is a very real issue.
Did you read all my posts in this thread ?.. or just the first one. Because I have put light to things in replies. The thing about characters was a little clumsy language by me in my first post but I mentioned that in one of my replies..
I am very well aware of the fact that SWG only had one character back then as I had to buy 5 accounts go get everything that I wanted done back then ( I wanted 5 characters on same server ). That said. I liked that you could only have one character. It made you attatch to that character a lot more.. but that is another story. The way the game are now. More than one character is good.
I think that you misunderstood what I wrote about entertainers. I dont understand why to be honest.. I will just repeat what I basically wrote in another reply in this thread:
I love being entertainer a lot more today compared to when I was a master musician or master dancer back in old and pre CU SWG, as we now can buff more than 30 buffs compared to old days where you only could remove battle fatigue and buff one buff.
If you were musician (back then in 2003,04,05) you had one buff and if you were dancer you had another. So a dancer and musician together could buff 2 buffs. Today all entertainers can buff more than 30 (have not counted so cant give exact number) and we (I say we because I am entertainer in SWG) + we now have a nice User interface (UI that we did not have back then) where receiver can see the buffs and we can put in a covercharge. Back in the days you basically had to trust your customer or ask for a tip. The UI today is an improvement.
And about entertainer, I like entertainer so much because I enjoy standing in the cantina and just chat with the people that comes in and asks for buffs + chatting with other entertainers. Some of the people that come by are almost muted but lots of them are nice people and that way I have received more friends in one week in SWG than a month or two in other games I have played. Its a very social way of playing and one that I enjoy a lot. (personal preference obviously)
And also regarding entertainers. Back in the days.. pre cu. the one buff we could give out was gettin cometition from bots. I remember MD bots or MD dancer bots.. standing 24/7 macrobuffin people. That was highly annoyting and something we complained about at forums a lot.
Macrobuffin is not possible today (at leas not easy unless you have some serious programming skills and are using illegal software witch most of us cant or will not) Before you can apply a buff today. You have to looke at a little picture and count how many symbols you see and type that in. Thats really handy.
The server that I was on PRE -CU never had "Extremely heavy population" (tagged at loginpage) as Starsider (where I am today) have. I never saw that many people nowhere back in the days.
In swg. TCG items does not affect gameplay in any other way than that someone wants to buy those items. They are no bigger problem for SWG than wow trading card items are for Wow. It seems however that in EQ2 they will affect gameplay. But that is another story. Items you get are just fluff and not game breaking in any ways. But SWG unlike most games are full of fluff items from patches, vet rewards, collections and so on. Lots of cool stuff to put in your house.
Oh come on now.
TCG is being used as in game currency for SWG. That affects gameplay.
SOE puts more effort into creating content for a loot card than it does for the actual updates. That affects gameplay.
SOE has given more updates to loot cards than it has to certain professions in YEARS. That affects gameply.
I'm sorry blueshadow, some things you say are just completely out of the realm of believable.
As for entertainers in pre-nge, yes there were issues and they were limited. I have already stated this before, soe ignored the base game for two years. Instead of enhancing and fixing, they focused on expansions ($$) and throwing out 2 entire versions of the game to draw in more people ($$). If the original game had the same four years the nge has had you would see a vastly improved game.
Entertainers now offer 30 buffs? Great, but I thought the soe team said the game was hampered down by to many buffs some time ago and they removed most from the game. This is the lack of consistancy that has produced suck a topsy turvy game design that has resulted in... well inconsistancy. Players have to live in fear of what the next patch will break or alter.
Oh come on now.
TCG is being used as in game currency for SWG. That affects gameplay.
SOE puts more effort into creating content for a loot card than it does for the actual updates. That affects gameplay.
SOE has given more updates to loot cards than it has to certain professions in YEARS. That affects gameply.
I'm sorry blueshadow, some things you say are just completely out of the realm of believable.
As for entertainers in pre-nge, yes there were issues and they were limited. I have already stated this before, soe ignored the base game for two years. Instead of enhancing and fixing, they focused on expansions ($$) and throwing out 2 entire versions of the game to draw in more people ($$). If the original game had the same four years the nge has had you would see a vastly improved game.
Entertainers now offer 30 buffs? Great, but I thought the soe team said the game was hampered down by to many buffs some time ago and they removed most from the game. This is the lack of consistancy that has produced suck a topsy turvy game design that has resulted in... well inconsistancy. Players have to live in fear of what the next patch will break or alter.
With all respect.
Credits are used as ingame currency in SWG. Trading card items just sells for (sometimes) insane amount of them. But you dont need any of the trading card items to play the game so thats why they are not game braking.
And most people get more than enough fluff from the stuff thats already there. I already have more than 1000 fluff items in my bunker and I am not playing trade card game.
In EQ2.. it seems like Trading card items will open up dungeons for players (not 100% sure about this).. thats a different story.
If you read the latest patch notes and previous. You will probably see that they put a lot more effort into the actuall game than just adding a few new 3d items to a trading card game. + even if you do not play the trading card game you get free items that you can put in your house.
People obviously pay insane mount of credits for some of these, but they do so with vet rewards too. I sold my barc speeder the other day for 30 mill credits. That said. My tailoring items sold from my tailor shop.. sells like hotcakes.
But it seems like SOE is trying to change this, by letting more and more of items that you get like that be bound to character.
And think about this. Trade cards put items into gameplay. As soon as someone has claimed it. Its in the game. And can be bought by someone that do not play the trading card game. So its another way to bring more fluff items into the game.
--
The essence and irony in lots of critisism (not all, but quite a lot) against SWG is that it comes from people not playing the game at all.. or that have not been there for 4 years.
Lots of stuff has happened and the game is good. But its only good for you if you play it.
We could all wish that more resources would be put into SWG. I play wow too and same accusations is turned against Blizzard. That they are running wow on b-team now etc.. (something they are absolutely not doing).
A new expansion would be awesome. Awesome because what is really good would have been even better.
But who knows what may or may not come?
And what wrote as OP in this thread still stands in my mind. SWG today is a very good game, in my humble opinion its even better than before.. but obviously, like all good games.
SWG today will not make everyone happy. Its FAR from perfect. But still very good. And its the only true Sandbox out there (I do not count in EVE as the avatar, being spaceship is not everyones cup of tea). Obviously Eve is an amazingly good game for the ones that likes it.
The only thing that I realise is that I these types of posts do not work in SWG veteran refuge forums. And since I am no longer an SWG Veteran refuge (I used to be).. I guess I don't really belong in this place. And this thread is probably long enough already.
But.. last words: Please allow people to enjoy SWG. And allow them to tell what they enjoy about it. Gaming is not life. Its for fun. And sometimes I feel someone is taking gaming way too serious. I guess I should be carefull of what I am saying now since I play games 4-5 hours everyday haha.. but thats my own problem.
I mean.. if someone say that SWG is a pile of crap.. should that be more belivable than actually someone that have played it and plays it say what they enjoy about it? SWG is game that do suffer from a strong voiced poulation of vets that will claim its just that.. a pile of poo or whatever... And I cant take such persons seriously. At least its unfair to tell that to persons who have not played the game.
Did you watch the video I posted of the SWG fan faire panel? You know the one where paying members complain to soe about the card game getting more updates than the actual game? That pretty much crushes your safety net that it is only non-customers complaining. You work so hard to find an excuse to discredit the people posting that you completely miss what is being discussed.
Just because you chose to subscribe doesn't mean you are more educated and have the only valid opinion. It isn't exactly hard to activate a vet trial and play the game. I understand that you like aspects of the game, but that doesn't mean you get to make baseless assumptions about anyone who disagrees with you.
Furthermore, just because you enjoy the game it doesn't make your opinion superior and more believable than someone who doesn't. I would go so far as to say you hide behind your enjoyment of the game to avoid some very harsh, but true situations that exist.
You enjoying the game doesn't make other people wrong.
Did you watch the video I posted of the SWG fan faire panel? You know the one where paying members complain to soe about the card game getting more updates than the actual game? That pretty much crushes your safety net that it is only non-customers complaining. You work so hard to find an excuse to discredit the people posting that you completely miss what is being discussed.
Just because you chose to subscribe doesn't mean you are more educated and have the only valid opinion. It isn't exactly hard to activate a vet trial and play the game. I understand that you like aspects of the game, but that doesn't mean you get to make baseless assumptions about anyone who disagrees with you.
I saw it.. but I have seen so many videos from so many games fan faires.. and there are always people "complaining" or . giving constructive feedback about almost anything.. ( Since most people are just passsionate about their games.. calling it complaints might be wrong.)
Maybe not the best feature of the game for everyone,, but certainly not game breaking.
I only wish that they had made those card for real. I would have collected them then.
If they start to add things like "best in slot" items.. or dungeons that are only accessible if you play or have trading card game.. then I would completely agree with you.
Again only my point of view. As a current SWG player I don't see much problems with it.. So far.
But yes.. people, including myself would love to see more resources put into SWG. Not because its horrible, but because its good and we want more of it. I think that is the case for those at that fan faire too.. since people traveling to fan faires are fans of agame.. and I never claimed SOE is doing everything right.. maybe trading card proves to be wrong.. SWG is not perfect. No games are perfect.