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"decline" of WoW doesn't mean loss of subs...
Omega3
Member Posts: 398
WoW decline is not about loosing customers; it has to do with community/developpers attitude:
Community:
- conflict between "vets" and newcomers called "noobs" who not being helped feel comfortable in the gameworld (ie Tanks criticized because they do "not have enough HP" by ulduar 25 standards);
- lack of population at low levels in order to learn group mechanics and enjoy the progression: all the focus of the game is now on reaching end game as fast as possible while the first 68 lvls are considered a bother by both vets and newcomers;
Developpers:
- "carrot on stick" design by giving players a few epic items after intense farming pre-raid, but they are always one step behind those who are raiding, thus forcing them to raid;
- simplification of the game mechanics (all classes can heal/tank/dps equally)
- making raiding unatunned and as easy to acces as a 5man instance;
- the whole race/faction change designed to milk more $$ from players;
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
Comments
/thread
If you don't enjoy WoW anymore... then take a break. Walk away for a while. When you come back, the game will have changed and new features/functions will be added. I've done this several times. I've even stepped away from WoW for a few months here and there to check other games out. I keep coming back because the other games simply failed to provide me with an experience that really matched the one I get from WoW.
No, I wouldn't rank Blizz as #1 in all categories that I would rank MMO's on, but they do their best to service about 80-85% of what gamers need. They attempt to 'balance' the game for the hardcore, the casual, the vet, and the noob. They continue to rollout services that have been requested by players.
If I were to knock Blizz and WoW at this point... it would probably be for lack of character customization and/or methods to really make your character 'yours' (different than the other 13,000,000 players). I would also like to see a few more classes added to the mix. I love that we'll see a few more races, but I'd also like to see another class launched with them, honestly. Too much to ask? Not after 5+ years.
Overall, I still enjoy playing WoW. Solo or not, there is usually something for me to do in-game. I mean... there's always Barren's Chat or Trade Channel, eh?
This is a good suggestion actually. If your tired of it, taking a break might be the only answer. It didn't work for me in regard to this game, but it might for you. It had the opposite effect in that I stayed in another game. In the meantime, you can see other worlds and at least discover something new. Perhaps you will find what your missing, or at least take a breather. But be prepared for the chance that you might find something that you like better
How does a company loose customers?
The WoW community is the product of the game mechanics and Blizzard's design.
Back in 2005 everyone was a lot more polite, mature and treated each other with more respect and it genuinely had a more fun vibe.
These days it's all 'LFM link achievment / link Epic, subject to gear check, need 3k dps / 'bring gear & tacs''.
There is far too much number crunching and addons supporting it breed the elitist mentality. Where did the fun go? This elite kiddy attitude is 90% of the reason I won't touch the end-game PvE content with a 100m barge pole. The game today isn't about questing with friends, it's not about fun, it's about getting the numbers or you get dumped. But it's not all the fault of the community, this is what they need to do to do well in the game.
Still, I've been in worse. Typically in the Korean MMO's like Lineage 2 and Legend of Mir where there's so much back-biting, hacking and ninja'ing it makes WoW seem like a kinder garden. By those standards the community is brilliant in WoW.
_________________________________________
You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
This argument of yours go both ways.
If people PUG for a purpose, they want to get it done, painlessly. Seeking people they know, or new members with some chances of getting things done. I will surely not welcome a healer in greens or blues if I am pugging for VoA or ToC/ToGC 10s 25s. I know for a fact that he will run out of mana soon enough and his heals not able to pull us out of the big hits or aoes. I know for a fact that a holy priest need at least 2300 spell power and some 400 mana regen in-combat to last through the normal 10man ToGC northern beast. Even that is very dangerous low. If all 3 healers are at that level, the rest of the team has to be very sharp (no one stands in fire, everyone spread out to avoid the fire or poison DoTs from the worms, no one got slammed by icehowl) or its a sure wipe. Good gear and experience from everyone allows rooms for mistakes, for sudden DCs or sheer bad luck.
Achievement and gear suggest that the player might have a chance of pulling it off. Unless I am there to help gear an undergeared friend, I see no reason why I should not form/join a group with a reasonable chance of getting it done.
In the past, we can get away carrying 1 dps or 1 heal undergeared. Not now for ToGC or VoA. Not for a while till enough of us have full ilvl245 gear so that we can 9man a 10s, and carry a newbie arounnd. We can do it on our mains, 9manning it, so regularly we power gear 1 member of ours, or an alt. But that is only recently, and only with the main team. We cannot do it with full team of undergeared alts.
When it comes to friends or guilds, that another issue. We collectively agree to help out someone, gear or whatever. We did it on purpose.
That is why I work hard to gear up my alts. They have to be reasonably geared in order to gain confidence of PUG leaders. Reputation from my main, and gear on my alts, will earn my admission tickets. That is call respect for the efforts of others, not trying to leech on others to help you with your own gear. If every new lvl 80 wants to join ToGC with full green/blue sets, who is going to do the real tanking, healing and dps?
Apart from gear and achievement checks, many PUG also kick out underperforming players after first boss or first wipe. Why? To weed out the freerider. I remember players joining arena only to go /afk throughout. These are the ones that ruin the team spirit, that drag on the feet of the entire team. Why would everyone need to work harder b/c one of the members were unwilling or unable to perform due to gear, experience or simple laziness.
Take a RL corollary. You need credential proves and interviews to land you jobs. You cannot just walk up to the HR department of CitiBank and demand a managerial post. That is exactly why job vacancy posts comes with academic and experience requirements.
I agree with everything you have said but that's my point (maybe I didn't make it very well) - the community is the product of the game - not the other way round. Is there justification for the stance raiders take? Yes, it's what the game mechanics demand of us. that doesn't mean it's a good thing.
In the early days when requirements were not so exacting then there was a far larger fun factor and a better vibe - the community was basically more chilled out.
But inevitably, as a game evolves in becomes more complex. As we can see in WoW the social side has taken a hit so that we can achieve the targets that are set for us. Rightly or wrongly, the relationships most people have in game now revolve more around what gear our friends wear and what achievements they have logged rather than if we enjoy their company and have a blast playing with them. That is to the detriment of the community and it breeds the elitist attitude we see all too often in game now. - an attitude I didn't see at all in the first year of it's release.
Take a sec to think back to the early days, they weren't all good - the game has improved massively. But conversely the community was miles better. Is it the communities fault - no - like I said they are a product of the game design. We are what they have made us.
_________________________________________
You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
If you like world pvp WoW has certainly declined in quality . I know theres wintersgrasp but its been unplayable since the release of wrath of the liche king . The community has declined and is awful now . A friend of mine said recently he thinks its because decent gear is so easy to obtain that you have a bunch of cocky kids playing now thinking they are awsome without really learning how to play . I would suggest maybe servers that offer harder gameplay would be the solution to all those that have left because of it although i would like to see adult servers implimented because i dont think its right for children and adults to be occupying the same vitrual space for obvious reasons ( of course this should apply to all mmos and not just wow ) .
As for subscriptions numbers no one really knows because Blizzard hav nt released any officially in nearly a year . And inspite of people posting links to dubious website , quoting xfire statistics which are widly recognised to be inaccurate or point out the news from earlier in the summer that the guiness book of records entered them as the most popular mmo without understanding that guiness take around six months to corroborate the facts , the only people that can really put an end to question remain silent .
I ve pointed it out before the day mmorpg.com report what Blizzards current subscriptions are or Blizzard release them on thier offical World of Warcraft website no one is really going to know . But i think if they had gone up or remained roughly the same Blizzard would be shouting it from the rooftops which they are not .
I m bound to be called a troll for pointing out such facts but all i am really is someone who pays attention to the reality rather than hype .
WoW still has many good things about it .Could it be better ? well yeah if Blizzard had nt gone for short term gain over long term gameplay . Its still one of the best fantasy mmos out there and proberbly offers the best pvp in a fantasy mmo in its battlegrounds .
I completely agree with you, but its not just in WoW. Personally I never liked WoW, it just wasnt for me. Back when WoW came out alot of the reasons that went around the EQ forums for why people were going to WoW was because EQ was too elitist. Personally I never felt that way even with not being in top end gear, but I could see how people felt that way with guilds want a set amount of AA. Point is even if the game is made to make it that way, it doesnt mean the players need to let it be that way.
In WoW you dont really loose xp like you did in older games, but even in EQ I will gladly make a group for harder content even if I know the chances of completing it are next to nil. Why you ask? Because the fun in anygame we play is the challenge of doing something that few others can do. Its no challenge to do something you know can be done with ease when everyone has great gear. The challenge is doing that same thing with people who are equally skilled or even more skilled with worse gear.
When you can do that, then you can call yourself an elitist. Til then you are just another drone following then pack.
What Wintergrasp is unplayable? You simply do not know the game. I got the Wintergrasp pants for my alt DK just last week. That was alot of time spent in Wintergrasp. We have full Wintergrasp's all of the time. Wintergrasp and BGs are alot of fun. People play them because they are fun.
Now, I do not like the gear score or achievement BS. Usually, the guild tag is enough to get me past those dopes thou.
What Wintergrasp is unplayable? You simply do not know the game. I got the Wintergrasp pants for my alt DK just last week. That was alot of time spent in Wintergrasp. We have full Wintergrasp's all of the time. Wintergrasp and BGs are alot of fun. People play them because they are fun.
Now, I do not like the gear score or achievement BS. Usually, the guild tag is enough to get me past those dopes thou.
No, most people do wintergrasp and BG because they offer rewards, pre-rank pvp was for fun. Once they get the rewards they usually never step foot in there again, till more rewards are added, or they need to do dailies.
Well, you can still play with friends and people you enjoy the company of. I did my whole time in WoW. I didn't accomplish much of anything, but I still had fun and that is why we play. There are people like me who will play around and goof off without a care for progressing into the endgame. Then there are people who form their bonds in order to progress further through the game, and then there is the middle ground. You don't have to have the best gear to have fun, but I do see your point in that what good is a game with community if the community content isn't fun to do as a community (lot of "community" in there lol). Still, the game was naturally going to get harder and require more cooperation. That just seems to be the nature of the beast.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Metallica8589/videos?view=0
What Wintergrasp is unplayable? You simply do not know the game. I got the Wintergrasp pants for my alt DK just last week. That was alot of time spent in Wintergrasp. We have full Wintergrasp's all of the time. Wintergrasp and BGs are alot of fun. People play them because they are fun.
Now, I do not like the gear score or achievement BS. Usually, the guild tag is enough to get me past those dopes thou.
No, most people do wintergrasp and BG because they offer rewards, pre-rank pvp was for fun. Once they get the rewards they usually never step foot in there again, till more rewards are added, or they need to do dailies.
My experience and people that I know would differ. You can get better gear from the arena system easily enough. Yet, there are alot of folks that simply never step foot in arena. Some of them are actually pretty good pvpers. The best hunter I know never steps foot in arena, yet you will find him in Wintergrasp all of the time.
I enjoy taking my mage (my main) into Wintergrasp and LOL at small groups of melee chase that me around. I definitely need no gear from there on my mage.
I have never once linked my achievements or made statements to my raiding experience. Not once, ever.
I get into pugs all the time with no problem. There are people that just play and have fun. Sure there are players that want proof of experience, but that isn't everyone.
You will encounter many types of players in wow, because it caters to such a broad audience. Saying everyone is one way or another isn't accurately describing the situation.
Ignore the people who want proof of this or that. Trust me you can find casual pugs.
Let me ask you a question. When was the last time you actually played?
How exactly is wintergrasp unplayable, because I play it everyday and it works just fine.
Also how has the quality gone down? I sure enjoy the vehicles and destructable walls.
I know what you mean about arena, I know some damn good players, they refuse to do arena. Not because they can't, but because they don't enjoy it. Back in the "day" I remember pvping for fun, the thrill. Now it's for purples and points. I stopped doing arena when WOTLK released, so all I had was BGs and WG, it's the only form of pvp fun you can really get. Fun pvp died a long time ago. To me anyways.
/thread
NICE! Way to dance in the end zone
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
The community is as good as you care to work on it. There are scumbags, there are good people. The attention seekers play the bad ass to spam and sprew nonsense. All you need it grow some thick skin and naturally ignore them. Put in some time and patience to find the people in harmony with each other. With your friendlist, you don't need to be bothered by the scumbags.
Typically, I never interact with unnecessary people, as I have more than enough of each type for whatever I am doing. When I PUG I play and move on, when I need to chat, I have my personal channels and guildies. When I craft or trade, I have lots of old contacts on my trade alt to do business with, sometimes just an in game mail. Not that I ignore everyone, I have the liberty to pick the nice people to hang around, and add nice new guys to friend list. That is freedom.
As for justifications or game mechanics, that is a trivial argument. Every game has its mechanics and everyone work around it minimax, one way or another. In WoW PUGs no one wants to carry excess baggage, in guilds or friend group, we do it. In EvE, no one will be merciful to strangers, everyone ambush and cheat, and back off from risking anything as long as he sense danger. I have seen deserters, teammate fleeing the moment engagement broke out, only to return when victory is in sight or simply sped off when things look ugly. You don't like it? Find people you like or another game.
Not everything in WoW requires raider spec, raids requires raider spec. Heroic daily, minor raids like ulduar, Onyxia and normal/heroic 5man ToC (new content) are virtual pushovers. We sometimes 4man the 5man content, or do it with 3-4 active members and an alt /follow along for gear and badges. You can join these without any gear. We once refit a hacked nake character rushing him thru everything and decking him in full epics in 10 hours, some very good ones.
If you want to raid in the top tier raids, you need to be raid ready. If you are willing to do the less demanding raids or dungeons, you only need to /follow and autoshoot. It would be hypocratic to be unready and unproven and yet expect total strangers to welcome you in open arms when they are forming the best team for the toughest boss in the game.
I have never once linked my achievements or made statements to my raiding experience. Not once, ever.
I get into pugs all the time with no problem. There are people that just play and have fun. Sure there are players that want proof of experience, but that isn't everyone.
You will encounter many types of players in wow, because it caters to such a broad audience. Saying everyone is one way or another isn't accurately describing the situation.
Ignore the people who want proof of this or that. Trust me you can find casual pugs.
Agree
Nah, I have to disagree with most of your points, OP.
WoW "decline," if it is in decline, is just a result of the game getting easier, either by Blizzard's design or by players getting increasingly better at the game. The only challenges in the game are in raids and PvP (though raids are not as challenging as they used to be), and that becomes very repetitious. I like to raid sometimes, but it would be nice if there were other fun things (read: challenging and rewarding things) to do, too. There's nothing heroic about "Heroic" instances anymore. I remember some of the BC heroics were at least a little bit challenging, like Shattered Halls and Shadow Labyrinth. Granted, Heroic Oculus can be challenging, but that's mainly because some people don't understand the mechanics of fighting on the dragons, so you often end up with a bad group if you pug it. Heroic ToC was a good addition, but it takes more than one instance to keep people occupied. All of the rest of the "heroics" I could run in my sleep with 4 equally dozing companions.
Agree mostly.
Some raids are hard because when first introduced, none of us have the gear to manage it. I recall naxx. When we got enough gear most of naxx is just zerging it.
Some raids are hard b/c we need coordination and gameplay. If you stand in the first in kolo of VoA, no gear will save you. If you do not kill the portals in Lord Jar of ToGC, 2 sisters will wipe your raid, whatever gear you have.
Some raids or dungeons require some luck in addition. 2/3 snobolds on your 2/3 healers in Northern beasts ToGC and you have your hands full.
Is that a decline? Well, we know that Blizz is staging its dungeons so the easiest ones comes out first. Naxx is pushover now. IC will be very hard when it comes out in 2 months.
Blizz can make it as hard as it wants, just double the damage table of boss and we are all wiping every moment we try. But does it make sense, across the board? Well ulduar maybe very easy now for us, but for some of the hard modes, it is still very hard. Can anyone do the achievement hardmode for the 3 bosses in VoA, its not easy whatever the gear level. That is what Blizz is doing. Raids are not overly impossible for reasonable well prepared raid groups, but there are always optioins to try the challenging options. How many guilds or groups has cleared all achievements of ulduar 10 or 25? How many have done 14/14 of ulduar? No many. Fact is, for some ill organised PUGs, Onyxia and ToC are still wipefests.
The entry ticket to the dungeons are made cheaper, but to get to the top stage, it is still steep climbing.
Let me ask you a question. When was the last time you actually played?
How exactly is wintergrasp unplayable, because I play it everyday and it works just fine.
Also how has the quality gone down? I sure enjoy the vehicles and destructable walls.
Today about 10 minuits ago . although i m only playing out a 3 month sub untill going over to Aion for a bit ( thats if they sort out the ques in game ) . Wintersgrasp is still appallingly laggy and my pc is nt a bad spec .
Funny, I play on a laptop over a year old and I have zero troubles in wintergrasp. Even with full shadows on. Sounds like it is a problem with your computer and not the game.
Also, Aion has its ques worked out now.
I know what you mean about arena, I know some damn good players, they refuse to do arena. Not because they can't, but because they don't enjoy it. Back in the "day" I remember pvping for fun, the thrill. Now it's for purples and points. I stopped doing arena when WOTLK released, so all I had was BGs and WG, it's the only form of pvp fun you can really get. Fun pvp died a long time ago. To me anyways.
I am not a huge fan of arenas myself. I do enjoy pvping thou either on my main or on a alt thou. I do think damage is balanced high in WoTLK. As far as BGs go, I like Isle alot (nice mix) but Strand feels too vechicle dependant. AB remains my favorite thou.
Gaming is about having fun. I took a break yesterday just to relax and destroy peeps in Tekken 6. When Dragon Age comes out, I will be taking quite a bit of time off to play it. I have big Halloween party coming up. If WoW has stopped being fun for you, take a break and play / do something else.
Funny, I play on a laptop over a year old and I have zero troubles in wintergrasp. Even with full shadows on. Sounds like it is a problem with your computer and not the game.
Also, Aion has its ques worked out now.
lol i guess thats why every wintersgrasp i play there people complaing about the lag in chat . i guess thier pcs all have something wrong with them too . also i play lord of the rings online ... no problem in the etten moors at all . .warhammer no lag in keep sieges. oh what about age of conan that can have some pretty large battles in it and thats takes a lot more computer power than wowr . all run well and even the bgs in wow it self ... all apart from wintersgrasp .
so dont be an idiot and suggest its my pc when you dont have a clue what your talking about .
i dont know what the ques in aion are like now i gave up trying and i m away a lot between now and christmas so its a waste of money for me to renew my sub till the new year .