I just wanted to point out that X-Fire statics in Darkfall's case are not worth even attempting to go off of. X-Fore and DF have some big fps issues when it comes to running both at the same time. You can lose between 20-60 fps by having them both running. I doubt there are many that run them both at the same time. Compared to other games where xfire doesnt cause a big fps drop and where twitch based combat doesnt happen. In DF you need every extra fps you can pull from the client since it is twitched based combat.
You have a valid point and I admit that X-Fire is far from perfect, but when considering 2 inaccurate methods, I would still pick X-Fire as more accurate. Why? Lets take the latest clan count
Update for 12/21/09:
EU: = 11,983 (Increase of 79)
NA: = 8,395 (Increase of 638)
Total: = 20,378 (Increase of 717)
There is an increase of 717 players. That could mean that zero people were kicked out of a clan and 717 were invited. Or that could mean that 5000 people were kicked out and 5717 were invited. I made the second pair huge just to illustrate that clan count doesn't really show us any trends. It may be used to show off a total number of people, but that statistic is also watered out, because a) inactive people are still being counted; b) active people not in a clan are not being counted;
As I said from the start, both methods are inaccurate, but the X-Fire method is closer to reality, because it has less variables that can throw off those numbers.
If we were to count the absolute number of DF players (or any other game as a matter of fact) then the formula would be:
A+B
where A is total number of players that play DF and do not use XFIRE and
B - total number of DF players that use X-Fire.
With clan count its:
(A-C)+(B-D)-E
A-total number of players in a clan;
B-total number of players not in clan;
C-total number of inactive players that are clanned;
D-total number of inactive players that are not in a clan;
E-total number of characters that were in a clan, but they deleted it and created a new one;
D in this formula is in question, it may or may not exist. But, logically speaking, the clan count includes inactive people, then this applies to unclanned count as well.
E is also in question, I'm not sure if its possible to do this - if I am in a clan and then I simply delete my toon and create a new one, does my old toon remain in the list?
Regardless whether D and/or E exists or not, the clan count formula is still at least 1 variable greater then X-Fire formula. Does that make any sense?
I agree that the clan counts are imperfect, but I'm still interested to see it through for awhile longer. If nothing else I'm patient.
I'll continue to do weekly updates for another couple of months, perhaps longer.
After that I will have enough data points to think about doing a chart of some sorts tracking individual clans. That should also be enough data to see how long it takes for the websites whose numbers I am using to cull "dead" clans.
If I track known "dead" clans, or clans that moved "en mass" from one server to the other, we should be able to track the downward movement of said clans over time. If that proves to be true, then the numbers do indeed hold some relevance. If that proves to be false, then I agree there will be no use in tracking the numbers anymore.
Anyway, it's still early in the process. I only have a month worth's of data points at this point. 3 months worth of data points should be enough to BEGIN some sort of individual clan tracking.
Until then, I am merely posting a weekly update for those that like seeing it. Don't read too much into them at this point in time.
That being said, it's definitely better for DarkFall's players to see the numbers going up than down. Down at this time would be hard to spin into something positive.
Im still going tobuy this game. The numbers seem to reflect that it is infact a boring game. My guess is sometimes you get tired of pvp. Kinda like endame in warhammer. Eventually I just got tired of keep trading and I got all of my Lost Vale gear and quit.
Either way, atleast now I know what Im getting into.
Good the population is growing, finally people are realising this game is good.
And by the way there are plenty of people without a guild lke myself.........so that number should be much higher.
Also I would like to add that it doesn't matter that the game has only 20K subscribers, the game is fun as it is, and the world has the rignt amount of people in it.
EVE started this way.
As soon as people start realise that this game is not in Beta, like some people keep suggesting, we will see better numbers.
I agree that the clan counts are imperfect, but I'm still interested to see it through for awhile longer. If nothing else I'm patient.
I'll continue to do weekly updates for another couple of months, perhaps longer.
After that I will have enough data points to think about doing a chart of some sorts tracking individual clans. That should also be enough data to see how long it takes for the websites whose numbers I am using to cull "dead" clans. If I track known "dead" clans, or clans that moved "en mass" from one server to the other, we should be able to track the downward movement of said clans over time. If that proves to be true, then the numbers do indeed hold some relevance. If that proves to be false, then I agree there will be no use in tracking the numbers anymore.
Anyway, it's still early in the process. I only have a month worth's of data points at this point. 3 months worth of data points should be enough to BEGIN some sort of individual clan tracking. Until then, I am merely posting a weekly update for those that like seeing it. Don't read too much into them at this point in time. That being said, it's definitely better for DarkFall's players to see the numbers going up than down. Down at this time would be hard to spin into something positive.
Please don't take my post as a discouragement for what you are doing - you or your actions were not the target. My point in all the number juggling was to those people who took these numbers as an absolute and undisputed statistic. I only tried to show X-fire as the better statistic tracking method - the better out of 2 very vague methods.
In any case, keep up the good work, the number do mean something after all.
I agree that the clan counts are imperfect, but I'm still interested to see it through for awhile longer. If nothing else I'm patient.
I'll continue to do weekly updates for another couple of months, perhaps longer.
After that I will have enough data points to think about doing a chart of some sorts tracking individual clans. That should also be enough data to see how long it takes for the websites whose numbers I am using to cull "dead" clans. If I track known "dead" clans, or clans that moved "en mass" from one server to the other, we should be able to track the downward movement of said clans over time. If that proves to be true, then the numbers do indeed hold some relevance. If that proves to be false, then I agree there will be no use in tracking the numbers anymore.
Anyway, it's still early in the process. I only have a month worth's of data points at this point. 3 months worth of data points should be enough to BEGIN some sort of individual clan tracking. Until then, I am merely posting a weekly update for those that like seeing it. Don't read too much into them at this point in time. That being said, it's definitely better for DarkFall's players to see the numbers going up than down. Down at this time would be hard to spin into something positive.
Please don't take my post as a discouragement for what you are doing - you or your actions were not the target. My point in all the number juggling was to those people who took these numbers as an absolute and undisputed statistic. I only tried to show X-fire as the better statistic tracking method - the better out of 2 very vague methods.
In any case, keep up the good work, the number do mean something after all.
Heh, no worries... I am not easily discouraged, although I'm sure some wish I were.
There's a lot to be taken with a grain of salt from the numbers pulled from clan search info. As an active player on NA1, I can tell you (without name dropping) that my clan shows roughly 80-90 members and only about 45% of those are still active.
There's a lot to be taken with a grain of salt from the numbers pulled from clan search info. As an active player on NA1, I can tell you (without name dropping) that my clan shows roughly 80-90 members and only about 45% of those are still active.
The OP and other have mentioned that numerous times. It isn't accurate, but probably gives a rough idea of what is going on. If anything I would probably ask a mod to change the name of the thread to " Darkfall Character Counts for both Servers ". I would probably change the number info to:
There's a lot to be taken with a grain of salt from the numbers pulled from clan search info. As an active player on NA1, I can tell you (without name dropping) that my clan shows roughly 80-90 members and only about 45% of those are still active.
The OP and other have mentioned that numerous times. It isn't accurate, but probably gives a rough idea of what is going on. If anything I would probably ask a mod to change the name of the thread to " Darkfall Character Counts for both Servers ". I would probably change the number info to:
EU: = 12103 (Weekly Increase of 21)
NA: = 8203 (Weekly Increase of 115)
Total: = 20306 (Increase of 1650 since 11/17/09)
Good ideas thinktank.
I'll change the title and start doing that new format going forward.
Its a shame that the counts cant show the number of non clanned to, theres a hell of a lot of people that run solo out of npc cities, and a hell of a lot of people that arent clanned joining each week.
Its a shame that the counts cant show the number of non clanned to, theres a hell of a lot of people that run solo out of npc cities, and a hell of a lot of people that arent clanned joining each week.
Yes.
Although with the popularity of the NEW clan, not sure if it's as high as it used to be.
You must remember that it's also been shown to count known inactives as well.
So... in the end do the two cancel each other out? Nobody can say for sure.
Is the count too high? Possibly.
Is the count too low? Possibly.
Either way... it's the only numbers anyone can point to. Until that changes, I'll keep a running tally.
Nice topic, its clearly you care about Darkfall and hope numbers rise.
Darkfall desserves so much more players then 20k, ive try some mmo's of late and Darkfall is in so many ways so much more and looking great i can't believe true pvper's and even mmo lovers not try this game.
Number should at least be 75 k +.
Competition are way beyond what Darkfall truely is.
Keep it going OP and others becouse Darkfall deservers to be in spotlight as a very good mmo comepare to others.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
New Feature added in for the EU server. The quote from the creators from the site that I've been using for the numbers is below:
2010-01-29 (v1.3)
------------------
New feature: Activity
The scanning of player changes will be done 2 times per day.
An active player is:
--------------------
* Someone that increase/decrease in alignment
* New rank within a guild
* Someone that change guild
* Changes sex (Hey it might happen in the future, this is a sandbox after all!)
* Changes race
* New players that pops up in the scan
Only players that belong to a clan can be scanned.
A player that has 10 alignment, doesn't change guild, never goes up/down in rank within the guild, and never do any PvP will be considered unactive, since his/hers alignment will stay at 10, but he might login every day to craft or only kill red/orange players.
According to my findings though, a player that has less than +10 alignment, doesn't change guild, never goes up/down in rank within the guild, and never do any PvP but are still playing now and then will be considered active.
Why is the second player considered active and not the first one?
Well, what I've figured out is that when the server goes up every day, everyone will be having +10 alignment according to the server. But as soon as you login this will change and show your correct alignment. So if I scan the list 10-60min after the server goes up everyday and then I scan it again before the server goes down the script will tag everyone that logged in after the first scan and has less than 10 alignment as active players because their alignment has changed.
I'm considering tagging every player as Active if something changed within 30 days. Might change this value in the future though.
I manually tabulated the clans this morning by copying/pasting from the clan journal into a spreadsheet. As of 10:00 MST (GMT-7), there were:
744 Clans on NA
8204 Clan members
My count is for ALL clan members, active or not, so it's the maximum possible number of currently subscribed clan members. Obviously, the actual count of currently subscribed clan members will be lower.
Comments
You have a valid point and I admit that X-Fire is far from perfect, but when considering 2 inaccurate methods, I would still pick X-Fire as more accurate. Why? Lets take the latest clan count
Update for 12/21/09:
EU: = 11,983 (Increase of 79)
NA: = 8,395 (Increase of 638)
Total: = 20,378 (Increase of 717)
There is an increase of 717 players. That could mean that zero people were kicked out of a clan and 717 were invited. Or that could mean that 5000 people were kicked out and 5717 were invited. I made the second pair huge just to illustrate that clan count doesn't really show us any trends. It may be used to show off a total number of people, but that statistic is also watered out, because a) inactive people are still being counted; b) active people not in a clan are not being counted;
As I said from the start, both methods are inaccurate, but the X-Fire method is closer to reality, because it has less variables that can throw off those numbers.
If we were to count the absolute number of DF players (or any other game as a matter of fact) then the formula would be:
A+B
where A is total number of players that play DF and do not use XFIRE and
B - total number of DF players that use X-Fire.
With clan count its:
(A-C)+(B-D)-E
A-total number of players in a clan;
B-total number of players not in clan;
C-total number of inactive players that are clanned;
D-total number of inactive players that are not in a clan;
E-total number of characters that were in a clan, but they deleted it and created a new one;
D in this formula is in question, it may or may not exist. But, logically speaking, the clan count includes inactive people, then this applies to unclanned count as well.
E is also in question, I'm not sure if its possible to do this - if I am in a clan and then I simply delete my toon and create a new one, does my old toon remain in the list?
Regardless whether D and/or E exists or not, the clan count formula is still at least 1 variable greater then X-Fire formula. Does that make any sense?
I agree that the clan counts are imperfect, but I'm still interested to see it through for awhile longer. If nothing else I'm patient.
I'll continue to do weekly updates for another couple of months, perhaps longer.
After that I will have enough data points to think about doing a chart of some sorts tracking individual clans. That should also be enough data to see how long it takes for the websites whose numbers I am using to cull "dead" clans.
If I track known "dead" clans, or clans that moved "en mass" from one server to the other, we should be able to track the downward movement of said clans over time. If that proves to be true, then the numbers do indeed hold some relevance. If that proves to be false, then I agree there will be no use in tracking the numbers anymore.
Anyway, it's still early in the process. I only have a month worth's of data points at this point. 3 months worth of data points should be enough to BEGIN some sort of individual clan tracking.
Until then, I am merely posting a weekly update for those that like seeing it. Don't read too much into them at this point in time.
That being said, it's definitely better for DarkFall's players to see the numbers going up than down. Down at this time would be hard to spin into something positive.
Thats great to see that we have over 20 000 players. Once we get a trial, we will probably beat fallen earth and age of conan.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Im still going tobuy this game. The numbers seem to reflect that it is infact a boring game. My guess is sometimes you get tired of pvp. Kinda like endame in warhammer. Eventually I just got tired of keep trading and I got all of my Lost Vale gear and quit.
Either way, atleast now I know what Im getting into.
Good the population is growing, finally people are realising this game is good.
And by the way there are plenty of people without a guild lke myself.........so that number should be much higher.
Also I would like to add that it doesn't matter that the game has only 20K subscribers, the game is fun as it is, and the world has the rignt amount of people in it.
EVE started this way.
As soon as people start realise that this game is not in Beta, like some people keep suggesting, we will see better numbers.
Please don't take my post as a discouragement for what you are doing - you or your actions were not the target. My point in all the number juggling was to those people who took these numbers as an absolute and undisputed statistic. I only tried to show X-fire as the better statistic tracking method - the better out of 2 very vague methods.
In any case, keep up the good work, the number do mean something after all.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Please don't take my post as a discouragement for what you are doing - you or your actions were not the target. My point in all the number juggling was to those people who took these numbers as an absolute and undisputed statistic. I only tried to show X-fire as the better statistic tracking method - the better out of 2 very vague methods.
In any case, keep up the good work, the number do mean something after all.
Heh, no worries... I am not easily discouraged, although I'm sure some wish I were.
Update for 12/28/09:
EU: = 11,963 (Decrease of 20)
NA: = 8,395 (Same)
Total: = 20,358 (Decrease of 20)
It would be interesting to find out what days or even what times Darkfall has peak concurrency.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Update : 1/3/2010
EU: = 12,082 (Increaase of 119)
NA: = 8,088 (Decrease of 307)
Total = 20,170 (Decrease of 188)
NA is experiencing a few issues apparently :þ
Update for 1/11/2010:
EU: = 12103 (Increase of 21)
NA: = 8203 (Increase of 115)
Total: = 20306 (Increase of 136)
There's a lot to be taken with a grain of salt from the numbers pulled from clan search info. As an active player on NA1, I can tell you (without name dropping) that my clan shows roughly 80-90 members and only about 45% of those are still active.
Update: 1/17/2010
EU: = 12,177 (Increase of 74)
NA: = 8,213 (Increase of 10)
Total: = 20,390 (Increase of 84)
The OP and other have mentioned that numerous times. It isn't accurate, but probably gives a rough idea of what is going on. If anything I would probably ask a mod to change the name of the thread to " Darkfall Character Counts for both Servers ". I would probably change the number info to:
EU: = 12103 (Weekly Increase of 21)
NA: = 8203 (Weekly Increase of 115)
Total: = 20306 (Increase of 1650 since 11/17/09)
The OP and other have mentioned that numerous times. It isn't accurate, but probably gives a rough idea of what is going on. If anything I would probably ask a mod to change the name of the thread to " Darkfall Character Counts for both Servers ". I would probably change the number info to:
EU: = 12103 (Weekly Increase of 21)
NA: = 8203 (Weekly Increase of 115)
Total: = 20306 (Increase of 1650 since 11/17/09)
Good ideas thinktank.
I'll change the title and start doing that new format going forward.
Update for 1/24/2010:
EU: = 12,169 (Weekly Decrease of 8)
NA: = 8,214 (Weekly Increase of 1)
Total: = 20,383 (Increase of 1,727 since 11/17/09)
I do hope that the numbers are true. Always good to see a games community get larger
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
Its a shame that the counts cant show the number of non clanned to, theres a hell of a lot of people that run solo out of npc cities, and a hell of a lot of people that arent clanned joining each week.
Yes.
Although with the popularity of the NEW clan, not sure if it's as high as it used to be.
You must remember that it's also been shown to count known inactives as well.
So... in the end do the two cancel each other out? Nobody can say for sure.
Is the count too high? Possibly.
Is the count too low? Possibly.
Either way... it's the only numbers anyone can point to. Until that changes, I'll keep a running tally.
Nice topic, its clearly you care about Darkfall and hope numbers rise.
Darkfall desserves so much more players then 20k, ive try some mmo's of late and Darkfall is in so many ways so much more and looking great i can't believe true pvper's and even mmo lovers not try this game.
Number should at least be 75 k +.
Competition are way beyond what Darkfall truely is.
Keep it going OP and others becouse Darkfall deservers to be in spotlight as a very good mmo comepare to others.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
New Feature added in for the EU server. The quote from the creators from the site that I've been using for the numbers is below:
2010-01-29 (v1.3)
------------------
New feature: Activity
The scanning of player changes will be done 2 times per day.
An active player is:
--------------------
* Someone that increase/decrease in alignment
* New rank within a guild
* Someone that change guild
* Changes sex (Hey it might happen in the future, this is a sandbox after all!)
* Changes race
* New players that pops up in the scan
Only players that belong to a clan can be scanned.
A player that has 10 alignment, doesn't change guild, never goes up/down in rank within the guild, and never do any PvP will be considered unactive, since his/hers alignment will stay at 10, but he might login every day to craft or only kill red/orange players.
According to my findings though, a player that has less than +10 alignment, doesn't change guild, never goes up/down in rank within the guild, and never do any PvP but are still playing now and then will be considered active.
Why is the second player considered active and not the first one?
Well, what I've figured out is that when the server goes up every day, everyone will be having +10 alignment according to the server. But as soon as you login this will change and show your correct alignment. So if I scan the list 10-60min after the server goes up everyday and then I scan it again before the server goes down the script will tag everyone that logged in after the first scan and has less than 10 alignment as active players because their alignment has changed.
I'm considering tagging every player as Active if something changed within 30 days. Might change this value in the future though.
df.urme.com/updates.txt
I will be including the total for this new Feature in the EU numbers.
Update for 1/31/2010:
EU: = 12,210 (Weekly Increase of 41)
EU Active: = 1,418 (Baseline)*
NA: = 8,305 (Weekly Increase of 91)
Total: = 20,515 (Increase of 1,859 since 11/17/2009)
*See post above for note on how Actives are counted.
Link to explanation: df.urme.com/updates.txt
Update for 2/7/2010:
EU: = 12,292 (Weekly Increase of 82)
EU Active: = 1,846 (Weekly Increase of 428)
NA: = 8,193 (Weekly Decrease of 112)
NA Active: = 8,187 (Baseline)
Total: = 20,485 (Increase of 1,829 since 11/17/2009)
I manually tabulated the clans this morning by copying/pasting from the clan journal into a spreadsheet. As of 10:00 MST (GMT-7), there were:
My count is for ALL clan members, active or not, so it's the maximum possible number of currently subscribed clan members. Obviously, the actual count of currently subscribed clan members will be lower.
~Ripper
Update for 2/14/2010:
EU: = 12,341 (Weekly Increase of 49)
EU Active: = 2,156 (Weekly Increase of 310)
NA: = 8,379 (Weekly Increase of 186)
NA Active: = 2,597 (Baseline Reset)
Total: = 20,720 (Increase of 2,064 since 11/17/2009)