I like the idea of Vanguard and Ryzom. Vanguard, I believe, has - by far - more actual content that players can engage in - quests, areas to explore, dungeons, etc. as well as a lot of side activities. Ryzom is a more wide-open MMO with less "theme-parkish" content; it's really more on the players to create their adventures.
I have "dabbled" in both of these games and completely agree on your assessment. Ryzom is TOTALLY a "sandbox," which, while being "cool" and all, really is almost TOO "open," for my taste. Although...like I said before, I'll play whatever game gets chosen by the group. EVE is the only game on the list, that makes me cringe a little inside when I think about starting over in it. I probably won't be very excited to do THAT one.
While I love the concept behind Ryzom's gameplay, it seems to stagnate rather quickly. There seems to be a lack of toys in the sandbox to keep players doing new and interesting things for the long term. When I originally cancelled my Ryzom sub, the most exciting thing people were doing was taking long treks from one racial area to another, or the occasional outpost war. When I tried the game out again several months later, they were doing the same thing. When I tried it again almost a year later, they were doing the same thing. It just doesn't seem like a MMO that can sustain a group with new content to do for a long time. Also, while the world is big, it's pretty limited.
Vanguard on the other hand, is massive. Huge and pretty nicely rendered world. Many interesting classes, lots of quests, an involved/interesting crafting system that plays almost like a mini-game... the idea of building ships and such is something that the members can really all pitch in on and become a part of.
Yes, there are a lot of interesting things that draw me to Vanguard too. Sadly, when I played the trial before, I couldn't really go beyond that, because...I didn't have anyone to share the experience with, and I knew that there was no way I was going to be able to venture out in to THAT massive world...solo. It's just too big, with too many "scaries" to run into...lol.
Between those two, Vanguard just seems to offer the *most* to a group of players looking to do something long-term.
Anyway... my two cents.
I added a few cents...so now we have a nickel. lol
Ah well.. following Gornian's sound advice.. ignoring the haters and talking about the project. Maybe it's time to make a selection of 4 games, for instance, and vote on those?
From what I can discern here, they already have it down to five:
Originally posted by Alamor0 The order in which I THINK things are going (and personally believe would work well): 1. Narrow down choices to around 5 games. DONE
Vanguard Ryzom EQII Eve FFXI
2. Choose a guild name and start our own forum. Guild name currently in discussion. 3. Spend a couple of weeks trying out whichever games we desire (I'll be trying out FFXI mostly, as it's the only game I've NEVER touched on our list) and heavily discuss/debate all five games. 4. Vote in some way, making the final decision on what game we're going to stick with.
If everybody thinks this is good, then we should be trying to secure our name.
Edit: I must now go take an Organic Chemistry 2 lab practical. Good luck with the name and maybe I'll return to a new forum!
Edit 2: Just noticed Goronian's pick and I have to say I was going to look into EQ regardless. Mainly because it'll play on my terrible laptop! Sounds good!
They do this all the time in WoW. They call it reroll guilds.
They never work out.
And rerolling with a bunch who are longing to relive their first MMO experience...
Well, good luck.
Just wanted to add a bit to this...
I'm as cynical as the next guy, and a lot of times these endeavors don't pan out. That said, with respect to WoW specifically, a lot of these so-called reroll guilds do so only to grind endgame again. It isn't any wonder they don't last. It's the same thing they were doing before.
From reading through this thread, I don't really see the goal of these efforts as a rush to endgame. Quite the opposite in fact. The purpose, as I see it, is to recapture what MMOs were built on - that is, comraderie and adventure. I don't really think anyone is trying to relive the good ole days, as much as they just want to hang out and see the game together. In the end however, you may be right. It might not last, but what does? If I enjoy myself for a time, well then mission accomplished.
EDIT: Quote got messed up. Not sure what happened.
Doesn´t FFXI have seperate servers for US/Europe? Would make it tough if not impossible imho. It's the only game on the list I haven't tried or subbed to though.
Will give Ryzom trial a whirl though, it's 21 days too which is good.
Vanguard is great too but very tank and spank. Would probably prefer EQ if that´s what everyone´s going with though as I think it's better supported by SOE.
I have already started trialing games, since I am not currently subscribed to anything. I will join any adventure with this group, but I know where I am leaning already. I seem to be of the same mind of WSIMike and Girlgeek at the moment. For me, Vanguard looks interesting for content and group mechanics, but....
Just throwing this out there since I haven't seen any solid suggestions. I am not very creative, so this may be over-used, but I took the general theme of some of the names, such as 'Adventure' and 'Seekers', and used a Latin translator. So here are some possiblities.
Novus Adventum ( New Adventures, Adventures didnt translate )
Adventum Capto ( Adventure Seekers )
then of course...
Novus Adventum Capto
Adventum Quaero ( Aventure Searchers )
I don't think those sound so bad, but anyone more creative can run with this if you like it. If not, whatever, I am bored at work
I think there is much too much worry about experiencing the content at the same time right now. It's not about he or she fell behind, or he or she is such a higher level. It's about having a good time with a good community. We don't all need to be the same level and do the exact same things for that to be the case. Of course, it's all up to the individual, and if you had someone you played with a little more regularly and you guys had figured out something, then that's great. The more rules we set, though, the more restricted we'll feel.
"Too much worry?" I wouldn't say so, and it's not even so much worry... It's something that could definitely come up. We're talking about a group of people who want to be able to adventure together and enjoy the chosen MMO "as it should be" (at least to those of us involved). Many times when you're in a group of people who intend to do everything as a whole - especially key quest lines, leveling, etc - it can fall apart when some people pull too far ahead compared to the rest.
In terms of leveling, many MMOs have a "limit" in how far apart members of a party can be in level before the xp rate is affected. I know it's about 3 levels in FFXI. In some other MMOs it's a bit more forgiving, but it's still there. That's something to be considered.
In terms of questing, some quest lines require you to have completed previous steps before moving on to the next... if a group is moving through such quests and someone falls behind a few steps because they weren't available.. that's something that has to be dealt with.
So.. while it's not an "omg the sky is falling" situation, it is definitely something that needs to be kept in mind. When members of a would-be group start becoming too spread out, it ceases to be a group as they can no longer do anything together.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Your concerns about leveling aren't completely applicable because our goals don't have to do with trying to get to the end game. If, for example, I were to far out level a few people, I would be perfectly happy to tag along with them (or have them tag along with me) and help in any ways I could. The enjoyment of the player interaction far exceeds any drive to level and helping lower levels would be much more satisfying. I only play MMOs to play with other people. All of us here desire that kind of community. I don't see out-leveling becoming a very big problem.
Regarding this issue, I believe FFXI has implemented a system to allow players to group with higher/lower levels without problem, similar to the one in CoX. This may be worth taking into account. (I've been told this, I do not know for certain. If anyone can confirm/deny, please do so.)
Regarding Chrisel's points. They are mostly valid in a more general context. I simply believed them irrelevant in this case because the Author and his followers have shown a specific interest in group play and/or a will to group regardless of level gap. Please do not be insulted but I do not think the goal of this thread is to provide an objective review of the MMOs listed for the general public to make decisions on.
Chrisel has, however, brought forth potentially helpful information for our game selection. He says EQ2 and Vanguard are WoW clones and as far as he knows, solo friendly. Can anyone back this up? If it is true then I believe we would actually want to steer away from them. Unless I am mistaken about our little group's ideals, in which case, by all means, enlighten me.
If anything, we might want to hold a poll regarding desired playstyle/goals once the forums go up, alongside the vote for which game to pick.
From my experience, EQ2 was more group friendly than WoW, and I'm including all of WoW's instances and world group encounters in this, but EQ2 was still very much a solo oriented game. Vanguard has many open world dungeons, where anyone and everyone can walk in and start fighting. However, most dungeons are difficult to get far in without a group. So Vanguard players tend to start grouping up around the late teens, and most players mostly group from then on. However, from what I know there's still solo quests to be done.
I don't mind a pure group game or a game that has content to be done by soloers. As long as I can group without consequences the majority of the game, I'll be happy. There will be times where maybe we have too many people online to fit in one group, and say if there's 1-2 left overs, it'd be nice for them to have something to occupy them until a spot opens in a group. But I think even FFXI has things to do solo, even if it's not quests.
If we want to get as far away from WoW gameplay as possible, I'd have to say the games rate in this order EvE>FFXI>Saga of Ryzom>EQ>Vanguard>EQ2
"Too much worry?" I wouldn't say so, and it's not even so much worry... It's something that could definitely come up. We're talking about a group of people who want to be able to adventure together and enjoy the chosen MMO "as it should be" (at least to those of us involved). Many times when you're in a group of people who intend to do everything as a whole - especially key quest lines, leveling, etc - it can fall apart when some people pull too far ahead compared to the rest.
In terms of leveling, many MMOs have a "limit" in how far apart members of a party can be in level before the xp rate is affected. I know it's about 3 levels in FFXI. In some other MMOs it's a bit more forgiving, but it's still there. That's something to be considered.
In terms of questing, some quest lines require you to have completed previous steps before moving on to the next... if a group is moving through such quests and someone falls behind a few steps because they weren't available.. that's something that has to be dealt with.
So.. while it's not an "omg the sky is falling" situation, it is definitely something that needs to be kept in mind. When members of a would-be group start becoming too spread out, it ceases to be a group as they can no longer do anything together.
I understand. And it's certainly something to keep in my mind. It depends on a lot of factors (not the least of which is what game we choose), though, and a difficult subject to tackle at this moment, I would think. Personally, I believe one thing that can greatly alleviate this problem is if people abstain from a 'get through content as quick as possible' mindset. If I knew that a couple of friends weren't there to get in on an important quest, I wouldn't feel any need to do it right then. And if we choose the right game, there should be plenty else to do. I shall throw my voice into the lot about Vanguard. I'm also leaning towards it and feel that this kind of game has what I'm talking about. If I want to wait for some friends for a quest or something, there's always diplomacy. Or simply exploring the world!
"Too much worry?" I wouldn't say so, and it's not even so much worry... It's something that could definitely come up. We're talking about a group of people who want to be able to adventure together and enjoy the chosen MMO "as it should be" (at least to those of us involved). Many times when you're in a group of people who intend to do everything as a whole - especially key quest lines, leveling, etc - it can fall apart when some people pull too far ahead compared to the rest.
In terms of leveling, many MMOs have a "limit" in how far apart members of a party can be in level before the xp rate is affected. I know it's about 3 levels in FFXI. In some other MMOs it's a bit more forgiving, but it's still there. That's something to be considered.
In terms of questing, some quest lines require you to have completed previous steps before moving on to the next... if a group is moving through such quests and someone falls behind a few steps because they weren't available.. that's something that has to be dealt with.
So.. while it's not an "omg the sky is falling" situation, it is definitely something that needs to be kept in mind. When members of a would-be group start becoming too spread out, it ceases to be a group as they can no longer do anything together.
I understand. And it's certainly something to keep in my mind. It depends on a lot of factors (not the least of which is what game we choose), though, and a difficult subject to tackle at this moment, I would think. Personally, I believe one thing that can greatly alleviate this problem is if people abstain from a 'get through content as quick as possible' mindset. If I knew that a couple of friends weren't there to get in on an important quest, I wouldn't feel any need to do it right then. And if we choose the right game, there should be plenty else to do. I shall throw my voice into the lot about Vanguard. I'm also leaning towards it and feel that this kind of game has what I'm talking about. If I want to wait for some friends for a quest or something, there's always diplomacy. Or simply exploring the world!
I agree... I'm the same. I can't tell you how many times I ended up being left behind in FFXI because I wanted to wait on others to "catch up" to where I was... They'd catch up and blow right past me and then not want to "wait" for me to catch up, or help me catch up.
I waited a month for some guild (linkshell) mates to get caught up to do Rank 5 in FFXI. They "just needed their cutscenes" but were never in any hurry to do it. I had to go away for a week and wasn't able to play. When I came back, I asked about getting that Rank 5 mission going, and was told they were already done with it; they'd done it a few days before. I asked "Oh, well can you help me get through it so we can continue on from there?". They replied, "No, we don't want to go through that again, and we're busy leveling our characters". I said "well, weren't we all supposed to do it at the same time? That's why I was waiting on you guys all that time to get your cut-scenes. I could have completed it over a month ago,but I thought it would be better for us all to do it" They said, "Well, you weren't here when we went. Just bad timing."
Needless to say, I had some choice words for them and wasn't in the linkshell much longer.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Honestly, go for Vanguard. When I first got to college I joined a group in Vanguard that was devoted to exploring the less seen content of the world, and we had a new dungeon/area every week. We found raid calibur encounters for level 19s just randomly in the desert. The amount of amazing hidden content in that game is great, and the perfect thing for a group of adventurerers. I have NEVER seen a game with better dungeon design. There are still hidden dungeons in the game not even discovered yet.
I understand. And it's certainly something to keep in my mind. It depends on a lot of factors (not the least of which is what game we choose), though, and a difficult subject to tackle at this moment, I would think. Personally, I believe one thing that can greatly alleviate this problem is if people abstain from a 'get through content as quick as possible' mindset. If I knew that a couple of friends weren't there to get in on an important quest, I wouldn't feel any need to do it right then. And if we choose the right game, there should be plenty else to do. I shall throw my voice into the lot about Vanguard. I'm also leaning towards it and feel that this kind of game has what I'm talking about. If I want to wait for some friends for a quest or something, there's always diplomacy. Or simply exploring the world!
I agree... I'm the same. I can't tell you how many times I ended up being left behind in FFXI because I wanted to wait on others to "catch up" to where I was... They'd catch up and blow right past me and then not want to "wait" for me to catch up, or help me catch up.
I waited a month for some guild (linkshell) mates to get caught up to do Rank 5 in FFXI. They "just needed their cutscenes" but were never in any hurry to do it. I had to go away for a week and wasn't able to play. When I came back, I asked about getting that Rank 5 mission going, and was told they were already done with it; they'd done it a few days before. I asked "Oh, well can you help me get through it so we can continue on from there?". They replied, "No, we don't want to go through that again, and we're busy leveling our characters". I said "well, weren't we all supposed to do it at the same time? That's why I was waiting on you guys all that time to get your cut-scenes. I could have completed it over a month ago,but I thought it would be better for us all to do it" They said, "Well, you weren't here when we went. Just bad timing."
Needless to say, I had some choice words for them and wasn't in the linkshell much longer.
Horrible. I would be rather pissed.
This is why I'm really excited about what Goronian has gotten started here. The focus has nothing to do with 'beating' or 'winning' or 'completing'. The entire POINT is community. I shall be on the frontline of people hammering that one home. Hopefully we rarely have to deal with those like you've mentioned.
I think there is much too much worry about experiencing the content at the same time right now. It's not about he or she fell behind, or he or she is such a higher level. It's about having a good time with a good community. We don't all need to be the same level and do the exact same things for that to be the case. Of course, it's all up to the individual, and if you had someone you played with a little more regularly and you guys had figured out something, then that's great. The more rules we set, though, the more restricted we'll feel.
"Too much worry?" I wouldn't say so, and it's not even so much worry... It's something that could definitely come up. We're talking about a group of people who want to be able to adventure together and enjoy the chosen MMO "as it should be" (at least to those of us involved). Many times when you're in a group of people who intend to do everything as a whole - especially key quest lines, leveling, etc - it can fall apart when some people pull too far ahead compared to the rest.
In terms of leveling, many MMOs have a "limit" in how far apart members of a party can be in level before the xp rate is affected. I know it's about 3 levels in FFXI. In some other MMOs it's a bit more forgiving, but it's still there. That's something to be considered.
In terms of questing, some quest lines require you to have completed previous steps before moving on to the next... if a group is moving through such quests and someone falls behind a few steps because they weren't available.. that's something that has to be dealt with.
So.. while it's not an "omg the sky is falling" situation, it is definitely something that needs to be kept in mind. When members of a would-be group start becoming too spread out, it ceases to be a group as they can no longer do anything together.
That's why I think any game that focuses on completing quests as its main goal as being an unwise choice. Quests are great solo, but the problems you listed always crop up. It's better to choose a game where we group up to explore the world, grind some xp as a group, and crawl in some dungeons. When you're quest grinding, everyone must be on the same quest. When you're world or dungeon crawling, people can be usually within 5 levels of each other and still get good xp.
This is why I think EQ is a better choice. The way EQ was played, people grouped up, found a good place that gave great xp, and grinded there as a group for hours.
I'm not advocating one playstyle over another, but since we're bringing up some good points, I figured I'd point out the obvious and say quest based games will result in some people being left behind.
Isn't getting "left behind" more of an issue with quest based games? It could still be an issue with Vanguard though that does offer plenty of other things to do.
I'm just wandering whether a skill based game like Ryzom would be a better way to go if we want to avoid that issue?
Isn't getting "left behind" more of an issue with quest based games? It could still be an issue with Vanguard though that does offer plenty of other things to do. I'm just wandering whether a skill based game like Ryzom would be a better way to go if we want to avoid that issue?
When I was playing the Saga of Ryzom trial, it was very quest oriented. I had players telling me to not get used to the quests, because they practically dry up after the trial area. In Ryzom, I was told people just group up and grind for xp.
Originally posted by nate1980 That's why I think any game that focuses on completing quests as its main goal as being an unwise choice. Quests are great solo, but the problems you listed always crop up. It's better to choose a game where we group up to explore the world, grind some xp as a group, and crawl in some dungeons. When you're quest grinding, everyone must be on the same quest. When you're world or dungeon crawling, people can be usually within 5 levels of each other and still get good xp. This is why I think EQ is a better choice. The way EQ was played, people grouped up, found a good place that gave great xp, and grinded there as a group for hours. I'm not advocating one playstyle over another, but since we're bringing up some good points, I figured I'd point out the obvious and say quest based games will result in some people being left behind.
What you really have reminded of is my first MMO experience. Somehow I completely forget that, if there were quests, they were the least important thing in the entire game for I, nor anyone else I played with, did any of them. In Dark Age of Camelot, I technically "grinded" all the way to cap, and I have yet to have near as much fun as that. And it was exactly as you say: wandering around, exploring, dungeon crawling, always with people of fairly varying levels as viable party members. I'm completely up for EQ (again, because my laptop is terrible). I still think Vanguard has a lot to offer and, though there are plenty, quests aren't the total focus.
It helps not having an instanced game where you have to be on a specific quest to enter a dungeon for example, iirc none of the 5 games on the short list are like that?
Isn't getting "left behind" more of an issue with quest based games? It could still be an issue with Vanguard though that does offer plenty of other things to do. I'm just wandering whether a skill based game like Ryzom would be a better way to go if we want to avoid that issue?
If you plan to do quests in Vanguard, its probably possible to be left behind, but many of the quests are stand alone, and there are no instances or limitations on where you go. If someone doesn't have the same quest as you, they can still go in the dungeon.
All I tried to do, was giving out a few advices. But then, go ahead, act like children; refuse to see the fact I pointed out, then do the opposite. Am I wrong when I say that this project is obviously more like a protest against that MMO's have become solo friendly rather than you trying to find back to the good old days...? If so, it is quite a paradox then, considering MMO's became solo friendly mainly due to 'groupers behavior'.
If you think I am here due to my "crusade" against grouping, you are wrong; For the first, heres more than enough fodder to keep anyone busy whatsoever reason, for ages. I am not interested in that. Secondly, my crusade aint something against groupers, it is more like that I pay my monthly fee, just like you do, and therefore I want to play my MMO just as I please. And that should be enough of that topic, since it is not the essence of this thread.
Now, if you let me come with a few points of view, which you might consider on your journey: Have you thought about what other game mechanics you should consider or not? If the MMO is a grind, or have a quest line with a deep story & lore? Do you care about the big "R" at all...? Which is, after all, what the games are; about playing a ROLE. What about the PvP? Want full pvp or none? Can be quite frustrating being ganked over & over again, when noones cares. Especially if you are in a guild.
I can see why you are hyped about this, project is interesting. Would be wise looking a bit deeper into the game mechanics, so you can get rid of at least some big cons you will not have in your MMO. If you dont care about the MMO's mechanics, why not even play Project Entropia (why isnt this mentioned...?), as this is 100% free, with a real cash driven player base. No monthly fee, no cost for the client. Heres the link to that game:
Isn't getting "left behind" more of an issue with quest based games? It could still be an issue with Vanguard though that does offer plenty of other things to do. I'm just wandering whether a skill based game like Ryzom would be a better way to go if we want to avoid that issue?
If you plan to do quests in Vanguard, its probably possible to be left behind, but many of the quests are stand alone, and there are no instances or limitations on where you go. If someone doesn't have the same quest as you, they can still go in the dungeon.
I believe that most of the games on our list have some sort of mentoring process as well. At least Vanguard, and FFXI do. Eve doesn't need it obviously.
I would just add that if people are 'left behind' than that would suggest that members of the group are more interested in advancing, rather than the group play, just like the example WSIMike mentioned from his experience with a guild. This doesn't sound like the point of this group, or in the very least, there are probably many amoung us that are always willing to go help other lower level members, even if there is no xp or gain involved. At least this is true of me.
If significant portions of members are left behind in this group, I would say the point of it has failed. There will be gaps, I don't see how you avoid that, but mentoring and just good community can help this. I know I will be left behind potentially because of my real life job. I could be absent without warning for several weeks, and I wouldn't expect anyone to wait for me. But if I came back and the majority said ' sucks to be you ', well... I would surprised.
Originally posted by nate1980 That's why I think any game that focuses on completing quests as its main goal as being an unwise choice. Quests are great solo, but the problems you listed always crop up. It's better to choose a game where we group up to explore the world, grind some xp as a group, and crawl in some dungeons. When you're quest grinding, everyone must be on the same quest. When you're world or dungeon crawling, people can be usually within 5 levels of each other and still get good xp. This is why I think EQ is a better choice. The way EQ was played, people grouped up, found a good place that gave great xp, and grinded there as a group for hours. I'm not advocating one playstyle over another, but since we're bringing up some good points, I figured I'd point out the obvious and say quest based games will result in some people being left behind.
What you really have reminded of is my first MMO experience. Somehow I completely forget that, if there were quests, they were the least important thing in the entire game for I, nor anyone else I played with, did any of them. In Dark Age of Camelot, I technically "grinded" all the way to cap, and I have yet to have near as much fun as that. And it was exactly as you say: wandering around, exploring, dungeon crawling, always with people of fairly varying levels as viable party members. I'm completely up for EQ (again, because my laptop is terrible). I still think Vanguard has a lot to offer and, though there are plenty, quests aren't the total focus.
DAoC was my first MMORPG and I loved it. I too grinded to max level with a group, but at that time, before Catacombs, almost everyone grouped when able. It just doesn't feel like grinding when you're working as a team, chatting it up, and seeing new things as the game progresses. That's just one facet of a game too. Every game usually has something else to do besides combat, and some games delve more deeply than others into non-combat activities.
So even a game that is all about questing, when a normal group of players is missing 1 person, they can always take the day off and either do solo quests, craft, or some other non-combat activity if they prefer.
I am a bit biased against quesitng though, because quests are required to be done at certain times (within a level range) if they're to be of any benefit, and there are usually enough of them that you sort of need to plan which ones you'll do, and when, if you're going to get the most out of them. With games like classic EQ and DAoC, you didn't have to worry about that kind of stuff. The freedom you feel when not being bound by having to do quests at certian times is great. DAoC still had quests, but nothing like WoW. For example, they had Epic Quests that started at 5, and continued in 5 level intervals until lvl 45, which culminated in a grand fight. DAoC also had other epicly large quests, that spanned several tiers of levels, such as the Champion quests. But quests like these can be done within a span of many levels, so you don't feel confined by them.
Now I know DAoC has implemented a WoW-like quest system since 2006 or 2007, but they aren't necessary like they are in WoW or EQ2. I'm sure EQ has many quests that are the cause of WoW too, but I bet you could ignore them as well as a group and concentrate on them solo when time permitted.
The above is just many things to think about. Further more, if any of us is to be realistic, we know this won't be easy, especially as the community grows. In under a week we've gained over 40 people who show interest in this. Coordinating the schedules of 40 people; satisfying the playstyles of 40 people; and game play interests is really hard. So I think it's a good idea for everyone to steel themselves for a nice challenge, and an incredible journey this will be. In the 7 years of playing MMO's and the 4 years of membership on this website, I've never seen the likes of this.
Originally posted by nate1980 That's why I think any game that focuses on completing quests as its main goal as being an unwise choice. Quests are great solo, but the problems you listed always crop up. It's better to choose a game where we group up to explore the world, grind some xp as a group, and crawl in some dungeons. When you're quest grinding, everyone must be on the same quest. When you're world or dungeon crawling, people can be usually within 5 levels of each other and still get good xp. This is why I think EQ is a better choice. The way EQ was played, people grouped up, found a good place that gave great xp, and grinded there as a group for hours. I'm not advocating one playstyle over another, but since we're bringing up some good points, I figured I'd point out the obvious and say quest based games will result in some people being left behind.
What you really have reminded of is my first MMO experience. Somehow I completely forget that, if there were quests, they were the least important thing in the entire game for I, nor anyone else I played with, did any of them. In Dark Age of Camelot, I technically "grinded" all the way to cap, and I have yet to have near as much fun as that. And it was exactly as you say: wandering around, exploring, dungeon crawling, always with people of fairly varying levels as viable party members. I'm completely up for EQ (again, because my laptop is terrible). I still think Vanguard has a lot to offer and, though there are plenty, quests aren't the total focus.
DAoC was my first MMORPG and I loved it. I too grinded to max level with a group, but at that time, before Catacombs, almost everyone grouped when able. It just doesn't feel like grinding when you're working as a team, chatting it up, and seeing new things as the game progresses. That's just one facet of a game too. Every game usually has something else to do besides combat, and some games delve more deeply than others into non-combat activities.
So even a game that is all about questing, when a normal group of players is missing 1 person, they can always take the day off and either do solo quests, craft, or some other non-combat activity if they prefer.
I am a bit biased against quesitng though, because quests are required to be done at certain times (within a level range) if they're to be of any benefit, and there are usually enough of them that you sort of need to plan which ones you'll do, and when, if you're going to get the most out of them. With games like classic EQ and DAoC, you didn't have to worry about that kind of stuff. The freedom you feel when not being bound by having to do quests at certian times is great. DAoC still had quests, but nothing like WoW. For example, they had Epic Quests that started at 5, and continued in 5 level intervals until lvl 45, which culminated in a grand fight. DAoC also had other epicly large quests, that spanned several tiers of levels, such as the Champion quests. But quests like these can be done within a span of many levels, so you don't feel confined by them.
Now I know DAoC has implemented a WoW-like quest system since 2006 or 2007, but they aren't necessary like they are in WoW or EQ2. I'm sure EQ has many quests that are the cause of WoW too, but I bet you could ignore them as well as a group and concentrate on them solo when time permitted.
The above is just many things to think about. Further more, if any of us is to be realistic, we know this won't be easy, especially as the community grows. In under a week we've gained over 40 people who show interest in this. Coordinating the schedules of 40 people; satisfying the playstyles of 40 people; and game play interests is really hard. So I think it's a good idea for everyone to steel themselves for a nice challenge, and an incredible journey this will be. In the 7 years of playing MMO's and the 4 years of membership on this website, I've never seen the likes of this.
This is pretty much my story as well. I have to say, I actually didn't mind "grinding" at all when I was with a group of great funny people. Quests were there to take a break from grinding, as were the Battlegrounds. How come no one can make a game as well thought out as DAoC nowadays?
Originally posted by nate1980 That's why I think any game that focuses on completing quests as its main goal as being an unwise choice. Quests are great solo, but the problems you listed always crop up. It's better to choose a game where we group up to explore the world, grind some xp as a group, and crawl in some dungeons. When you're quest grinding, everyone must be on the same quest. When you're world or dungeon crawling, people can be usually within 5 levels of each other and still get good xp. This is why I think EQ is a better choice. The way EQ was played, people grouped up, found a good place that gave great xp, and grinded there as a group for hours. I'm not advocating one playstyle over another, but since we're bringing up some good points, I figured I'd point out the obvious and say quest based games will result in some people being left behind.
What you really have reminded of is my first MMO experience. Somehow I completely forget that, if there were quests, they were the least important thing in the entire game for I, nor anyone else I played with, did any of them. In Dark Age of Camelot, I technically "grinded" all the way to cap, and I have yet to have near as much fun as that. And it was exactly as you say: wandering around, exploring, dungeon crawling, always with people of fairly varying levels as viable party members. I'm completely up for EQ (again, because my laptop is terrible). I still think Vanguard has a lot to offer and, though there are plenty, quests aren't the total focus.
DAoC was my first MMORPG and I loved it. I too grinded to max level with a group, but at that time, before Catacombs, almost everyone grouped when able. It just doesn't feel like grinding when you're working as a team, chatting it up, and seeing new things as the game progresses. That's just one facet of a game too. Every game usually has something else to do besides combat, and some games delve more deeply than others into non-combat activities.
So even a game that is all about questing, when a normal group of players is missing 1 person, they can always take the day off and either do solo quests, craft, or some other non-combat activity if they prefer.
I am a bit biased against quesitng though, because quests are required to be done at certain times (within a level range) if they're to be of any benefit, and there are usually enough of them that you sort of need to plan which ones you'll do, and when, if you're going to get the most out of them. With games like classic EQ and DAoC, you didn't have to worry about that kind of stuff. The freedom you feel when not being bound by having to do quests at certian times is great. DAoC still had quests, but nothing like WoW. For example, they had Epic Quests that started at 5, and continued in 5 level intervals until lvl 45, which culminated in a grand fight. DAoC also had other epicly large quests, that spanned several tiers of levels, such as the Champion quests. But quests like these can be done within a span of many levels, so you don't feel confined by them.
Now I know DAoC has implemented a WoW-like quest system since 2006 or 2007, but they aren't necessary like they are in WoW or EQ2. I'm sure EQ has many quests that are the cause of WoW too, but I bet you could ignore them as well as a group and concentrate on them solo when time permitted.
The above is just many things to think about. Further more, if any of us is to be realistic, we know this won't be easy, especially as the community grows. In under a week we've gained over 40 people who show interest in this. Coordinating the schedules of 40 people; satisfying the playstyles of 40 people; and game play interests is really hard. So I think it's a good idea for everyone to steel themselves for a nice challenge, and an incredible journey this will be. In the 7 years of playing MMO's and the 4 years of membership on this website, I've never seen the likes of this.
This is pretty much my story as well. I have to say, I actually didn't mind "grinding" at all when I was with a group of great funny people. Quests were there to take a break from grinding, as were the Battlegrounds. How come no one can make a game as well thought out as DAoC nowadays?
How come a company would possibly release Trials of Atlantis as an expansion for Dark Age of Camelot? :P
Originally posted by nate1980 That's why I think any game that focuses on completing quests as its main goal as being an unwise choice. Quests are great solo, but the problems you listed always crop up. It's better to choose a game where we group up to explore the world, grind some xp as a group, and crawl in some dungeons. When you're quest grinding, everyone must be on the same quest. When you're world or dungeon crawling, people can be usually within 5 levels of each other and still get good xp. This is why I think EQ is a better choice. The way EQ was played, people grouped up, found a good place that gave great xp, and grinded there as a group for hours. I'm not advocating one playstyle over another, but since we're bringing up some good points, I figured I'd point out the obvious and say quest based games will result in some people being left behind.
What you really have reminded of is my first MMO experience. Somehow I completely forget that, if there were quests, they were the least important thing in the entire game for I, nor anyone else I played with, did any of them. In Dark Age of Camelot, I technically "grinded" all the way to cap, and I have yet to have near as much fun as that. And it was exactly as you say: wandering around, exploring, dungeon crawling, always with people of fairly varying levels as viable party members. I'm completely up for EQ (again, because my laptop is terrible). I still think Vanguard has a lot to offer and, though there are plenty, quests aren't the total focus.
DAoC was my first MMORPG and I loved it. I too grinded to max level with a group, but at that time, before Catacombs, almost everyone grouped when able. It just doesn't feel like grinding when you're working as a team, chatting it up, and seeing new things as the game progresses. That's just one facet of a game too. Every game usually has something else to do besides combat, and some games delve more deeply than others into non-combat activities.
So even a game that is all about questing, when a normal group of players is missing 1 person, they can always take the day off and either do solo quests, craft, or some other non-combat activity if they prefer.
I am a bit biased against quesitng though, because quests are required to be done at certain times (within a level range) if they'
How come a company would possibly release Trials of Atlantis as an expansion for Dark Age of Camelot? :P
Oh there is no denying that the biggest problem with DAoC after it got past SI was Mythic themselves, after all, they're the morons who thought up /level and whatnot (far more detrimental to the game than ToA imo)
It'll be interesting how it pans out whichever game we join. I'd prefer to avoid the quest and level treadmill if possible, almost having to do a quest for a piece of armour is a pain.
I'm also enjoying my time in FE as although it has levels it certainly gives more freedom that most games.
Comments
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I like the idea of Vanguard and Ryzom. Vanguard, I believe, has - by far - more actual content that players can engage in - quests, areas to explore, dungeons, etc. as well as a lot of side activities. Ryzom is a more wide-open MMO with less "theme-parkish" content; it's really more on the players to create their adventures.
I have "dabbled" in both of these games and completely agree on your assessment. Ryzom is TOTALLY a "sandbox," which, while being "cool" and all, really is almost TOO "open," for my taste. Although...like I said before, I'll play whatever game gets chosen by the group. EVE is the only game on the list, that makes me cringe a little inside when I think about starting over in it. I probably won't be very excited to do THAT one.
While I love the concept behind Ryzom's gameplay, it seems to stagnate rather quickly. There seems to be a lack of toys in the sandbox to keep players doing new and interesting things for the long term. When I originally cancelled my Ryzom sub, the most exciting thing people were doing was taking long treks from one racial area to another, or the occasional outpost war. When I tried the game out again several months later, they were doing the same thing. When I tried it again almost a year later, they were doing the same thing. It just doesn't seem like a MMO that can sustain a group with new content to do for a long time. Also, while the world is big, it's pretty limited.
Vanguard on the other hand, is massive. Huge and pretty nicely rendered world. Many interesting classes, lots of quests, an involved/interesting crafting system that plays almost like a mini-game... the idea of building ships and such is something that the members can really all pitch in on and become a part of.
Yes, there are a lot of interesting things that draw me to Vanguard too. Sadly, when I played the trial before, I couldn't really go beyond that, because...I didn't have anyone to share the experience with, and I knew that there was no way I was going to be able to venture out in to THAT massive world...solo. It's just too big, with too many "scaries" to run into...lol.
Between those two, Vanguard just seems to offer the *most* to a group of players looking to do something long-term.
Anyway... my two cents.
I added a few cents...so now we have a nickel. lol
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
From what I can discern here, they already have it down to five:
* Vanguard
* Ryzom
* EQII
* Eve
* FFXI
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
If everybody thinks this is good, then we should be trying to secure our name.
Edit: I must now go take an Organic Chemistry 2 lab practical. Good luck with the name and maybe I'll return to a new forum!
Edit 2: Just noticed Goronian's pick and I have to say I was going to look into EQ regardless. Mainly because it'll play on my terrible laptop! Sounds good!
Originally posted by uquipu
They do this all the time in WoW. They call it reroll guilds.
They never work out.
And rerolling with a bunch who are longing to relive their first MMO experience...
Well, good luck.
Just wanted to add a bit to this...
I'm as cynical as the next guy, and a lot of times these endeavors don't pan out. That said, with respect to WoW specifically, a lot of these so-called reroll guilds do so only to grind endgame again. It isn't any wonder they don't last. It's the same thing they were doing before.
From reading through this thread, I don't really see the goal of these efforts as a rush to endgame. Quite the opposite in fact. The purpose, as I see it, is to recapture what MMOs were built on - that is, comraderie and adventure. I don't really think anyone is trying to relive the good ole days, as much as they just want to hang out and see the game together. In the end however, you may be right. It might not last, but what does? If I enjoy myself for a time, well then mission accomplished.
EDIT: Quote got messed up. Not sure what happened.
Doesn´t FFXI have seperate servers for US/Europe? Would make it tough if not impossible imho. It's the only game on the list I haven't tried or subbed to though.
Will give Ryzom trial a whirl though, it's 21 days too which is good.
Vanguard is great too but very tank and spank. Would probably prefer EQ if that´s what everyone´s going with though as I think it's better supported by SOE.
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I have already started trialing games, since I am not currently subscribed to anything. I will join any adventure with this group, but I know where I am leaning already. I seem to be of the same mind of WSIMike and Girlgeek at the moment. For me, Vanguard looks interesting for content and group mechanics, but....
Just throwing this out there since I haven't seen any solid suggestions. I am not very creative, so this may be over-used, but I took the general theme of some of the names, such as 'Adventure' and 'Seekers', and used a Latin translator. So here are some possiblities.
Novus Adventum ( New Adventures, Adventures didnt translate )
Adventum Capto ( Adventure Seekers )
then of course...
Novus Adventum Capto
Adventum Quaero ( Aventure Searchers )
I don't think those sound so bad, but anyone more creative can run with this if you like it. If not, whatever, I am bored at work
Ohatro
"Too much worry?" I wouldn't say so, and it's not even so much worry... It's something that could definitely come up. We're talking about a group of people who want to be able to adventure together and enjoy the chosen MMO "as it should be" (at least to those of us involved). Many times when you're in a group of people who intend to do everything as a whole - especially key quest lines, leveling, etc - it can fall apart when some people pull too far ahead compared to the rest.
In terms of leveling, many MMOs have a "limit" in how far apart members of a party can be in level before the xp rate is affected. I know it's about 3 levels in FFXI. In some other MMOs it's a bit more forgiving, but it's still there. That's something to be considered.
In terms of questing, some quest lines require you to have completed previous steps before moving on to the next... if a group is moving through such quests and someone falls behind a few steps because they weren't available.. that's something that has to be dealt with.
So.. while it's not an "omg the sky is falling" situation, it is definitely something that needs to be kept in mind. When members of a would-be group start becoming too spread out, it ceases to be a group as they can no longer do anything together.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Regarding this issue, I believe FFXI has implemented a system to allow players to group with higher/lower levels without problem, similar to the one in CoX. This may be worth taking into account. (I've been told this, I do not know for certain. If anyone can confirm/deny, please do so.)
Regarding Chrisel's points. They are mostly valid in a more general context. I simply believed them irrelevant in this case because the Author and his followers have shown a specific interest in group play and/or a will to group regardless of level gap. Please do not be insulted but I do not think the goal of this thread is to provide an objective review of the MMOs listed for the general public to make decisions on.
Chrisel has, however, brought forth potentially helpful information for our game selection. He says EQ2 and Vanguard are WoW clones and as far as he knows, solo friendly. Can anyone back this up? If it is true then I believe we would actually want to steer away from them. Unless I am mistaken about our little group's ideals, in which case, by all means, enlighten me.
If anything, we might want to hold a poll regarding desired playstyle/goals once the forums go up, alongside the vote for which game to pick.
From my experience, EQ2 was more group friendly than WoW, and I'm including all of WoW's instances and world group encounters in this, but EQ2 was still very much a solo oriented game. Vanguard has many open world dungeons, where anyone and everyone can walk in and start fighting. However, most dungeons are difficult to get far in without a group. So Vanguard players tend to start grouping up around the late teens, and most players mostly group from then on. However, from what I know there's still solo quests to be done.
I don't mind a pure group game or a game that has content to be done by soloers. As long as I can group without consequences the majority of the game, I'll be happy. There will be times where maybe we have too many people online to fit in one group, and say if there's 1-2 left overs, it'd be nice for them to have something to occupy them until a spot opens in a group. But I think even FFXI has things to do solo, even if it's not quests.
If we want to get as far away from WoW gameplay as possible, I'd have to say the games rate in this order EvE>FFXI>Saga of Ryzom>EQ>Vanguard>EQ2
"Too much worry?" I wouldn't say so, and it's not even so much worry... It's something that could definitely come up. We're talking about a group of people who want to be able to adventure together and enjoy the chosen MMO "as it should be" (at least to those of us involved). Many times when you're in a group of people who intend to do everything as a whole - especially key quest lines, leveling, etc - it can fall apart when some people pull too far ahead compared to the rest.
In terms of leveling, many MMOs have a "limit" in how far apart members of a party can be in level before the xp rate is affected. I know it's about 3 levels in FFXI. In some other MMOs it's a bit more forgiving, but it's still there. That's something to be considered.
In terms of questing, some quest lines require you to have completed previous steps before moving on to the next... if a group is moving through such quests and someone falls behind a few steps because they weren't available.. that's something that has to be dealt with.
So.. while it's not an "omg the sky is falling" situation, it is definitely something that needs to be kept in mind. When members of a would-be group start becoming too spread out, it ceases to be a group as they can no longer do anything together.
I understand. And it's certainly something to keep in my mind. It depends on a lot of factors (not the least of which is what game we choose), though, and a difficult subject to tackle at this moment, I would think. Personally, I believe one thing that can greatly alleviate this problem is if people abstain from a 'get through content as quick as possible' mindset. If I knew that a couple of friends weren't there to get in on an important quest, I wouldn't feel any need to do it right then. And if we choose the right game, there should be plenty else to do. I shall throw my voice into the lot about Vanguard. I'm also leaning towards it and feel that this kind of game has what I'm talking about. If I want to wait for some friends for a quest or something, there's always diplomacy. Or simply exploring the world!
"Too much worry?" I wouldn't say so, and it's not even so much worry... It's something that could definitely come up. We're talking about a group of people who want to be able to adventure together and enjoy the chosen MMO "as it should be" (at least to those of us involved). Many times when you're in a group of people who intend to do everything as a whole - especially key quest lines, leveling, etc - it can fall apart when some people pull too far ahead compared to the rest.
In terms of leveling, many MMOs have a "limit" in how far apart members of a party can be in level before the xp rate is affected. I know it's about 3 levels in FFXI. In some other MMOs it's a bit more forgiving, but it's still there. That's something to be considered.
In terms of questing, some quest lines require you to have completed previous steps before moving on to the next... if a group is moving through such quests and someone falls behind a few steps because they weren't available.. that's something that has to be dealt with.
So.. while it's not an "omg the sky is falling" situation, it is definitely something that needs to be kept in mind. When members of a would-be group start becoming too spread out, it ceases to be a group as they can no longer do anything together.
I understand. And it's certainly something to keep in my mind. It depends on a lot of factors (not the least of which is what game we choose), though, and a difficult subject to tackle at this moment, I would think. Personally, I believe one thing that can greatly alleviate this problem is if people abstain from a 'get through content as quick as possible' mindset. If I knew that a couple of friends weren't there to get in on an important quest, I wouldn't feel any need to do it right then. And if we choose the right game, there should be plenty else to do. I shall throw my voice into the lot about Vanguard. I'm also leaning towards it and feel that this kind of game has what I'm talking about. If I want to wait for some friends for a quest or something, there's always diplomacy. Or simply exploring the world!
I agree... I'm the same. I can't tell you how many times I ended up being left behind in FFXI because I wanted to wait on others to "catch up" to where I was... They'd catch up and blow right past me and then not want to "wait" for me to catch up, or help me catch up.
I waited a month for some guild (linkshell) mates to get caught up to do Rank 5 in FFXI. They "just needed their cutscenes" but were never in any hurry to do it. I had to go away for a week and wasn't able to play. When I came back, I asked about getting that Rank 5 mission going, and was told they were already done with it; they'd done it a few days before. I asked "Oh, well can you help me get through it so we can continue on from there?". They replied, "No, we don't want to go through that again, and we're busy leveling our characters". I said "well, weren't we all supposed to do it at the same time? That's why I was waiting on you guys all that time to get your cut-scenes. I could have completed it over a month ago,but I thought it would be better for us all to do it" They said, "Well, you weren't here when we went. Just bad timing."
Needless to say, I had some choice words for them and wasn't in the linkshell much longer.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Honestly, go for Vanguard. When I first got to college I joined a group in Vanguard that was devoted to exploring the less seen content of the world, and we had a new dungeon/area every week. We found raid calibur encounters for level 19s just randomly in the desert. The amount of amazing hidden content in that game is great, and the perfect thing for a group of adventurerers. I have NEVER seen a game with better dungeon design. There are still hidden dungeons in the game not even discovered yet.
Darkfall Travelogues!
I understand. And it's certainly something to keep in my mind. It depends on a lot of factors (not the least of which is what game we choose), though, and a difficult subject to tackle at this moment, I would think. Personally, I believe one thing that can greatly alleviate this problem is if people abstain from a 'get through content as quick as possible' mindset. If I knew that a couple of friends weren't there to get in on an important quest, I wouldn't feel any need to do it right then. And if we choose the right game, there should be plenty else to do. I shall throw my voice into the lot about Vanguard. I'm also leaning towards it and feel that this kind of game has what I'm talking about. If I want to wait for some friends for a quest or something, there's always diplomacy. Or simply exploring the world!
I agree... I'm the same. I can't tell you how many times I ended up being left behind in FFXI because I wanted to wait on others to "catch up" to where I was... They'd catch up and blow right past me and then not want to "wait" for me to catch up, or help me catch up.
I waited a month for some guild (linkshell) mates to get caught up to do Rank 5 in FFXI. They "just needed their cutscenes" but were never in any hurry to do it. I had to go away for a week and wasn't able to play. When I came back, I asked about getting that Rank 5 mission going, and was told they were already done with it; they'd done it a few days before. I asked "Oh, well can you help me get through it so we can continue on from there?". They replied, "No, we don't want to go through that again, and we're busy leveling our characters". I said "well, weren't we all supposed to do it at the same time? That's why I was waiting on you guys all that time to get your cut-scenes. I could have completed it over a month ago,but I thought it would be better for us all to do it" They said, "Well, you weren't here when we went. Just bad timing."
Needless to say, I had some choice words for them and wasn't in the linkshell much longer.
Horrible. I would be rather pissed.
This is why I'm really excited about what Goronian has gotten started here. The focus has nothing to do with 'beating' or 'winning' or 'completing'. The entire POINT is community. I shall be on the frontline of people hammering that one home. Hopefully we rarely have to deal with those like you've mentioned.
"Too much worry?" I wouldn't say so, and it's not even so much worry... It's something that could definitely come up. We're talking about a group of people who want to be able to adventure together and enjoy the chosen MMO "as it should be" (at least to those of us involved). Many times when you're in a group of people who intend to do everything as a whole - especially key quest lines, leveling, etc - it can fall apart when some people pull too far ahead compared to the rest.
In terms of leveling, many MMOs have a "limit" in how far apart members of a party can be in level before the xp rate is affected. I know it's about 3 levels in FFXI. In some other MMOs it's a bit more forgiving, but it's still there. That's something to be considered.
In terms of questing, some quest lines require you to have completed previous steps before moving on to the next... if a group is moving through such quests and someone falls behind a few steps because they weren't available.. that's something that has to be dealt with.
So.. while it's not an "omg the sky is falling" situation, it is definitely something that needs to be kept in mind. When members of a would-be group start becoming too spread out, it ceases to be a group as they can no longer do anything together.
That's why I think any game that focuses on completing quests as its main goal as being an unwise choice. Quests are great solo, but the problems you listed always crop up. It's better to choose a game where we group up to explore the world, grind some xp as a group, and crawl in some dungeons. When you're quest grinding, everyone must be on the same quest. When you're world or dungeon crawling, people can be usually within 5 levels of each other and still get good xp.
This is why I think EQ is a better choice. The way EQ was played, people grouped up, found a good place that gave great xp, and grinded there as a group for hours.
I'm not advocating one playstyle over another, but since we're bringing up some good points, I figured I'd point out the obvious and say quest based games will result in some people being left behind.
Isn't getting "left behind" more of an issue with quest based games? It could still be an issue with Vanguard though that does offer plenty of other things to do.
I'm just wandering whether a skill based game like Ryzom would be a better way to go if we want to avoid that issue?
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When I was playing the Saga of Ryzom trial, it was very quest oriented. I had players telling me to not get used to the quests, because they practically dry up after the trial area. In Ryzom, I was told people just group up and grind for xp.
What you really have reminded of is my first MMO experience. Somehow I completely forget that, if there were quests, they were the least important thing in the entire game for I, nor anyone else I played with, did any of them. In Dark Age of Camelot, I technically "grinded" all the way to cap, and I have yet to have near as much fun as that. And it was exactly as you say: wandering around, exploring, dungeon crawling, always with people of fairly varying levels as viable party members. I'm completely up for EQ (again, because my laptop is terrible). I still think Vanguard has a lot to offer and, though there are plenty, quests aren't the total focus.
It helps not having an instanced game where you have to be on a specific quest to enter a dungeon for example, iirc none of the 5 games on the short list are like that?
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If you plan to do quests in Vanguard, its probably possible to be left behind, but many of the quests are stand alone, and there are no instances or limitations on where you go. If someone doesn't have the same quest as you, they can still go in the dungeon.
Darkfall Travelogues!
So much anger.
So much hate.
All I tried to do, was giving out a few advices. But then, go ahead, act like children; refuse to see the fact I pointed out, then do the opposite. Am I wrong when I say that this project is obviously more like a protest against that MMO's have become solo friendly rather than you trying to find back to the good old days...? If so, it is quite a paradox then, considering MMO's became solo friendly mainly due to 'groupers behavior'.
If you think I am here due to my "crusade" against grouping, you are wrong; For the first, heres more than enough fodder to keep anyone busy whatsoever reason, for ages. I am not interested in that. Secondly, my crusade aint something against groupers, it is more like that I pay my monthly fee, just like you do, and therefore I want to play my MMO just as I please. And that should be enough of that topic, since it is not the essence of this thread.
Now, if you let me come with a few points of view, which you might consider on your journey: Have you thought about what other game mechanics you should consider or not? If the MMO is a grind, or have a quest line with a deep story & lore? Do you care about the big "R" at all...? Which is, after all, what the games are; about playing a ROLE. What about the PvP? Want full pvp or none? Can be quite frustrating being ganked over & over again, when noones cares. Especially if you are in a guild.
I can see why you are hyped about this, project is interesting. Would be wise looking a bit deeper into the game mechanics, so you can get rid of at least some big cons you will not have in your MMO. If you dont care about the MMO's mechanics, why not even play Project Entropia (why isnt this mentioned...?), as this is 100% free, with a real cash driven player base. No monthly fee, no cost for the client. Heres the link to that game:
http://www.planetcalypso.com/home/
/bearhug
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
If you plan to do quests in Vanguard, its probably possible to be left behind, but many of the quests are stand alone, and there are no instances or limitations on where you go. If someone doesn't have the same quest as you, they can still go in the dungeon.
I believe that most of the games on our list have some sort of mentoring process as well. At least Vanguard, and FFXI do. Eve doesn't need it obviously.
I would just add that if people are 'left behind' than that would suggest that members of the group are more interested in advancing, rather than the group play, just like the example WSIMike mentioned from his experience with a guild. This doesn't sound like the point of this group, or in the very least, there are probably many amoung us that are always willing to go help other lower level members, even if there is no xp or gain involved. At least this is true of me.
If significant portions of members are left behind in this group, I would say the point of it has failed. There will be gaps, I don't see how you avoid that, but mentoring and just good community can help this. I know I will be left behind potentially because of my real life job. I could be absent without warning for several weeks, and I wouldn't expect anyone to wait for me. But if I came back and the majority said ' sucks to be you ', well... I would surprised.
Ohatro
What you really have reminded of is my first MMO experience. Somehow I completely forget that, if there were quests, they were the least important thing in the entire game for I, nor anyone else I played with, did any of them. In Dark Age of Camelot, I technically "grinded" all the way to cap, and I have yet to have near as much fun as that. And it was exactly as you say: wandering around, exploring, dungeon crawling, always with people of fairly varying levels as viable party members. I'm completely up for EQ (again, because my laptop is terrible). I still think Vanguard has a lot to offer and, though there are plenty, quests aren't the total focus.
DAoC was my first MMORPG and I loved it. I too grinded to max level with a group, but at that time, before Catacombs, almost everyone grouped when able. It just doesn't feel like grinding when you're working as a team, chatting it up, and seeing new things as the game progresses. That's just one facet of a game too. Every game usually has something else to do besides combat, and some games delve more deeply than others into non-combat activities.
So even a game that is all about questing, when a normal group of players is missing 1 person, they can always take the day off and either do solo quests, craft, or some other non-combat activity if they prefer.
I am a bit biased against quesitng though, because quests are required to be done at certain times (within a level range) if they're to be of any benefit, and there are usually enough of them that you sort of need to plan which ones you'll do, and when, if you're going to get the most out of them. With games like classic EQ and DAoC, you didn't have to worry about that kind of stuff. The freedom you feel when not being bound by having to do quests at certian times is great. DAoC still had quests, but nothing like WoW. For example, they had Epic Quests that started at 5, and continued in 5 level intervals until lvl 45, which culminated in a grand fight. DAoC also had other epicly large quests, that spanned several tiers of levels, such as the Champion quests. But quests like these can be done within a span of many levels, so you don't feel confined by them.
Now I know DAoC has implemented a WoW-like quest system since 2006 or 2007, but they aren't necessary like they are in WoW or EQ2. I'm sure EQ has many quests that are the cause of WoW too, but I bet you could ignore them as well as a group and concentrate on them solo when time permitted.
The above is just many things to think about. Further more, if any of us is to be realistic, we know this won't be easy, especially as the community grows. In under a week we've gained over 40 people who show interest in this. Coordinating the schedules of 40 people; satisfying the playstyles of 40 people; and game play interests is really hard. So I think it's a good idea for everyone to steel themselves for a nice challenge, and an incredible journey this will be. In the 7 years of playing MMO's and the 4 years of membership on this website, I've never seen the likes of this.
What you really have reminded of is my first MMO experience. Somehow I completely forget that, if there were quests, they were the least important thing in the entire game for I, nor anyone else I played with, did any of them. In Dark Age of Camelot, I technically "grinded" all the way to cap, and I have yet to have near as much fun as that. And it was exactly as you say: wandering around, exploring, dungeon crawling, always with people of fairly varying levels as viable party members. I'm completely up for EQ (again, because my laptop is terrible). I still think Vanguard has a lot to offer and, though there are plenty, quests aren't the total focus.
DAoC was my first MMORPG and I loved it. I too grinded to max level with a group, but at that time, before Catacombs, almost everyone grouped when able. It just doesn't feel like grinding when you're working as a team, chatting it up, and seeing new things as the game progresses. That's just one facet of a game too. Every game usually has something else to do besides combat, and some games delve more deeply than others into non-combat activities.
So even a game that is all about questing, when a normal group of players is missing 1 person, they can always take the day off and either do solo quests, craft, or some other non-combat activity if they prefer.
I am a bit biased against quesitng though, because quests are required to be done at certain times (within a level range) if they're to be of any benefit, and there are usually enough of them that you sort of need to plan which ones you'll do, and when, if you're going to get the most out of them. With games like classic EQ and DAoC, you didn't have to worry about that kind of stuff. The freedom you feel when not being bound by having to do quests at certian times is great. DAoC still had quests, but nothing like WoW. For example, they had Epic Quests that started at 5, and continued in 5 level intervals until lvl 45, which culminated in a grand fight. DAoC also had other epicly large quests, that spanned several tiers of levels, such as the Champion quests. But quests like these can be done within a span of many levels, so you don't feel confined by them.
Now I know DAoC has implemented a WoW-like quest system since 2006 or 2007, but they aren't necessary like they are in WoW or EQ2. I'm sure EQ has many quests that are the cause of WoW too, but I bet you could ignore them as well as a group and concentrate on them solo when time permitted.
The above is just many things to think about. Further more, if any of us is to be realistic, we know this won't be easy, especially as the community grows. In under a week we've gained over 40 people who show interest in this. Coordinating the schedules of 40 people; satisfying the playstyles of 40 people; and game play interests is really hard. So I think it's a good idea for everyone to steel themselves for a nice challenge, and an incredible journey this will be. In the 7 years of playing MMO's and the 4 years of membership on this website, I've never seen the likes of this.
This is pretty much my story as well. I have to say, I actually didn't mind "grinding" at all when I was with a group of great funny people. Quests were there to take a break from grinding, as were the Battlegrounds. How come no one can make a game as well thought out as DAoC nowadays?
Darkfall Travelogues!
What you really have reminded of is my first MMO experience. Somehow I completely forget that, if there were quests, they were the least important thing in the entire game for I, nor anyone else I played with, did any of them. In Dark Age of Camelot, I technically "grinded" all the way to cap, and I have yet to have near as much fun as that. And it was exactly as you say: wandering around, exploring, dungeon crawling, always with people of fairly varying levels as viable party members. I'm completely up for EQ (again, because my laptop is terrible). I still think Vanguard has a lot to offer and, though there are plenty, quests aren't the total focus.
DAoC was my first MMORPG and I loved it. I too grinded to max level with a group, but at that time, before Catacombs, almost everyone grouped when able. It just doesn't feel like grinding when you're working as a team, chatting it up, and seeing new things as the game progresses. That's just one facet of a game too. Every game usually has something else to do besides combat, and some games delve more deeply than others into non-combat activities.
So even a game that is all about questing, when a normal group of players is missing 1 person, they can always take the day off and either do solo quests, craft, or some other non-combat activity if they prefer.
I am a bit biased against quesitng though, because quests are required to be done at certain times (within a level range) if they're to be of any benefit, and there are usually enough of them that you sort of need to plan which ones you'll do, and when, if you're going to get the most out of them. With games like classic EQ and DAoC, you didn't have to worry about that kind of stuff. The freedom you feel when not being bound by having to do quests at certian times is great. DAoC still had quests, but nothing like WoW. For example, they had Epic Quests that started at 5, and continued in 5 level intervals until lvl 45, which culminated in a grand fight. DAoC also had other epicly large quests, that spanned several tiers of levels, such as the Champion quests. But quests like these can be done within a span of many levels, so you don't feel confined by them.
Now I know DAoC has implemented a WoW-like quest system since 2006 or 2007, but they aren't necessary like they are in WoW or EQ2. I'm sure EQ has many quests that are the cause of WoW too, but I bet you could ignore them as well as a group and concentrate on them solo when time permitted.
The above is just many things to think about. Further more, if any of us is to be realistic, we know this won't be easy, especially as the community grows. In under a week we've gained over 40 people who show interest in this. Coordinating the schedules of 40 people; satisfying the playstyles of 40 people; and game play interests is really hard. So I think it's a good idea for everyone to steel themselves for a nice challenge, and an incredible journey this will be. In the 7 years of playing MMO's and the 4 years of membership on this website, I've never seen the likes of this.
This is pretty much my story as well. I have to say, I actually didn't mind "grinding" at all when I was with a group of great funny people. Quests were there to take a break from grinding, as were the Battlegrounds. How come no one can make a game as well thought out as DAoC nowadays?
How come a company would possibly release Trials of Atlantis as an expansion for Dark Age of Camelot? :P
What you really have reminded of is my first MMO experience. Somehow I completely forget that, if there were quests, they were the least important thing in the entire game for I, nor anyone else I played with, did any of them. In Dark Age of Camelot, I technically "grinded" all the way to cap, and I have yet to have near as much fun as that. And it was exactly as you say: wandering around, exploring, dungeon crawling, always with people of fairly varying levels as viable party members. I'm completely up for EQ (again, because my laptop is terrible). I still think Vanguard has a lot to offer and, though there are plenty, quests aren't the total focus.
DAoC was my first MMORPG and I loved it. I too grinded to max level with a group, but at that time, before Catacombs, almost everyone grouped when able. It just doesn't feel like grinding when you're working as a team, chatting it up, and seeing new things as the game progresses. That's just one facet of a game too. Every game usually has something else to do besides combat, and some games delve more deeply than others into non-combat activities.
So even a game that is all about questing, when a normal group of players is missing 1 person, they can always take the day off and either do solo quests, craft, or some other non-combat activity if they prefer.
I am a bit biased against quesitng though, because quests are required to be done at certain times (within a level range) if they'
How come a company would possibly release Trials of Atlantis as an expansion for Dark Age of Camelot? :P
Oh there is no denying that the biggest problem with DAoC after it got past SI was Mythic themselves, after all, they're the morons who thought up /level and whatnot (far more detrimental to the game than ToA imo)
Darkfall Travelogues!
It'll be interesting how it pans out whichever game we join. I'd prefer to avoid the quest and level treadmill if possible, almost having to do a quest for a piece of armour is a pain.
I'm also enjoying my time in FE as although it has levels it certainly gives more freedom that most games.
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