one thing can be said about Blizzard with no argument, they are successful. Obviously they are doing something right. They may not be most creative, inventive but they are innovative. If their precedes did what Dustin Browder is saying in this interview, i think they would have been more successful. www.gamasutra.com/view/news/25795/Starcraft_IIs_Browder_Sequel_Influences_Include_Dawn_Of_War_II.php
And the highlight;
"We're hardcore PC gamers," explains the project lead. "We play lots and lots of games made by lots and lots of developers. We try to look and analyze what is working for them in their game, or what is not working for them in their game." He adds, "Is there anything about what they're doing that we can learn from, either what not to do or what to do? We're constantly looking at what other people are doing and trying to decide what's right for us and what makes sense for us."
And yet other games managed to be insanely successful WITHOUT ripping all their ideas from a pre determined successful formula. The WoW lead devs were all EQ players and it shows because WoW is, simply, a retarded baby version of EQ with a fourth of the features.
I didnt play EQ and played WOW till lvl 15 i think, on a free trial so i cant comment about the ripping thing but if thats true wouldnt it be the 10m players who are retarded for playing a inferior version of a game which has "fourth of the features".
And insanely successful is having 10m players, which other company has that?
one thing can be said about Blizzard with no argument, they are successful. Obviously they are doing something right. They may not be most creative, inventive but they are innovative. If their precedes did what Dustin Browder is saying in this interview, i think they would have been more successful. www.gamasutra.com/view/news/25795/Starcraft_IIs_Browder_Sequel_Influences_Include_Dawn_Of_War_II.php
And the highlight;
"We're hardcore PC gamers," explains the project lead. "We play lots and lots of games made by lots and lots of developers. We try to look and analyze what is working for them in their game, or what is not working for them in their game." He adds, "Is there anything about what they're doing that we can learn from, either what not to do or what to do? We're constantly looking at what other people are doing and trying to decide what's right for us and what makes sense for us."
That's a pretty good quote that shows part of why Blizzard is what it is today.
Blizzard are reiterators. Not cloners. WOW borrowed a lot from a lot of games - both single player games and other MMOs such as Asheron's Call 2 and Anarchy Online. However, WOW was still its own thing, it was an amalgam of a variety of gaming experiences. So it managed to be similar to all sorts of other games while having a personality of its own, which was thanks in large part to Blizzard's relentless focus on refining gameplay tradition and fluid responsive toon control. Thus they ended up with a game that felt familiar and "instantly usable", easy to get in and fun to play, not to mention polished.
"Don't copy what we copied from Warhammer, Everquest and Ultima Online."
I hope this post was a joke since, you know, WoW came out roughly 3 years before Warhammer.
It doesn't matter who copied what or who copied who. The only thing that matters, in a company's perspective, is the number of subscribers. The entire purpose of a company is to make money. Either World of Warcraft duped more people than every other MMO combined, or they created something that almost everyone can enjoy.
The massive arguing from both sides is stupid when it is clear that Blizzard has obviously done something impressive if they can capture such a vast majority of the market share. Did McDonald's create the hamburger? No. Do millions of people eat there each year? Yes. Why don't any of you rag on them for copying someone else's idea?
I'm not sure if this was mentioned but, Warcraft was originally slated to be a Warhammer Fantasy Battle -based RTS. The deal fell through with Games Workshop and they [Blizzard] kept all of the designs as their own.
For instance, before GW, Orcs looked like humanoid pigs or warped elves.
Me personally? I couldn't care less who copies what. I just find the WoW fanboys constant "WoW-clone" shit to be painfully ironic.
Despite getting burned out on WoW every so often, I really enjoy the game and I'm really enjoying Allods. I say if you're going to take from games, take what works and add to it. Only a fool ignores success. We're all suckling on Tolkien's teat anyway.
The ignorance of this community has found its home in this thread. The sheer elitism some people believe they or the games they play have is just asinine. If it has Blizzard anywhere in it, its automatically bad, wrong and deserving to be insulted and ridiculed. Guess what folks. The games you play aren't any better than Blizzards. EVE is just Elite turned into an MMO, LotR and Warhammer Online were both created simply to lure in the fan-base of the table top game and books/movies respectively. There are no original ideas left. Everything that can be done has already been done in some way, shape or form and pissing on a business because of a small resemblance to a short lived series from 20 years ago is just moronic. The arguments have gotten so stale that when someone says WoW came out before Warhammer people bring up the table top game? Since when were the discussions here about table top gaming? It says MMORPG, not PnPRPG. They were right, WoW did come out before Warhammer did if you use the common sense God gave a rock and see they are talking about the Online game. This community is the worst representation of the MMO world currently in existence on the net. The childish whines and cheap shots abound without any real facts backing up the trash that spews forth from these forums like the in-bound pipe at a waste treatment plant. The only worthwhile part of this entire website are the articles written by true professionals in the industry, because the trash that inhabits the forums isn't fit to wipe even the ass of Smedley. I've been around gaming of both types for almost 30 years and in all this time nothing has disgusted me more than the sewage that inhabits this forum. Hopefully this black hole of stupidity releases the handful of people who attempt to post intelligent, thoughtful and meaningful responses so that they can find a place where their words will be viewed by people who get it, instead of by the dregs of the internet that have washed up on this forsaken forum. Enjoy your hell, children.
I agree I've been around MMOs and online gaming since the dawn of time and I've never seen anything worse than the community of these forums. Forming an opinion as if it were fact and insulting people along the way is how it has always worked around here regardless of what game was popular. This is the wrong place to go about intelligent discussion with factual based information. Always has been.
You know, it's funny that EQ took elements from several MUDS, D&D and probably even Diablo(say Hi to Blizzard!) but nobody complains about that.
This is just typical MMORPG.com WoW hate, nothing more.
Those were all a different genre, and EQ was one of the original MMORPG's to release. Not to mention Sony was the first to bring in 3d MMORPG gameplay, first person ability, amongst other firsts. Blizzard not only copies everything from past MMO's, but even current ones! What original pieces have they brought to the genre? I can't think of any? If you have any, I'd love to hear them.
And for the record, I don't hate WoW. I played it for 2 years until TBC and it got too watered down for my taste, as well as the crap community festering over. I'm just tired of the masses thinking Blizzard craps roses. WAKE UP!
"Don't copy what we copied from Warhammer, Everquest and Ultima Online."
I hope this post was a joke since, you know, WoW came out roughly 3 years before Warhammer.
In which WoW copied from 25 years worth of Warhammer board game lore.
Right... because Warhammer was the creator of all fantasy lore too. they didnt take like 90% of it from stories/ideas/lore that have been around for decades and centuries before it. How dare Blizzard make a fantasy MMO using the same fantasy things that Warhammer "invented"
"Don't copy what we copied from Warhammer, Everquest and Ultima Online."
I hope this post was a joke since, you know, WoW came out roughly 3 years before Warhammer.
In which WoW copied from 25 years worth of Warhammer board game lore.
Right... because Warhammer was the creator of all fantasy lore too. they didnt take like 90% of it from stories/ideas/lore that have been around for decades and centuries before it. How dare Blizzard make a fantasy MMO using the same fantasy things that Warhammer "invented"
Well similarity in style is plain to see. And since Warhammer came first in concept then it's pretty easy to see how Warcraft was patterned after the Warhammer lore and world.
"Don't copy what we copied from Warhammer, Everquest and Ultima Online."
I hope this post was a joke since, you know, WoW came out roughly 3 years before Warhammer.
In which WoW copied from 25 years worth of Warhammer board game lore.
Right... because Warhammer was the creator of all fantasy lore too. they didnt take like 90% of it from stories/ideas/lore that have been around for decades and centuries before it. How dare Blizzard make a fantasy MMO using the same fantasy things that Warhammer "invented"
I am sure that may be the case, I was simply pointing out to the above poster the fact that Warhammer has been around, in one form or another, WELL before the almighty WoW. Not to mention Blizzard nearly mirrored Warhammer lore completely. Not simply took a few ideas here and there from it.
A huge part of why wow is widely loved is because how simplistic it feels. For example you get into the game and the UI is very simple and easy to understand, players love this. After a while time flies by while playing wow till this day it has been the only game that could keep me on for endless hours while losing track of time. Blizzard was just spot on when they wanted to give players what they wanted.
Forgive me if I repeat anything that has been previously stated. This has become quite a large thread.
Honestly, as a game designer in general, it is not at all a bad idea to consider what made other games successful and to incorporate similar concepts (or attempt to improve them, especially in technical aspects such as game mechanics) in their own creations. I do agree that games should not become carbon-copies of one another, but a company that chooses to learn from the successes and mistakes of others is not something to be complain about. This happens everywhere, all the time.
Entirely new concepts are hard (but not impossible) to come by when so many games have been created in the past. However, I agree with Anubisan's statement that Blizzard is actually giving constructive advice. The game has been out long enough that it has nearly perfected its style, and competitors need to stop creating wannabes of the game and come up with some fresh ideas.
All in all, the focus should not be on what game created a certain concept and what game used it second and is therefore unworthy. The gaming industry, like every other industry in the world, is full of companies fending for themselves in a 'survival of the fittest.' They must morph into what their consumers want, and it is mainly through the successes and failures of their competitors that this is observed. However, to those who claim to be creating the 'next World of Warcraft' -- complete with the same game mechanics, interface, and art style -- it would obviously be a better strategy to create something previously unseen. There is more than one way to create a successful game.
Comments
And yet other games managed to be insanely successful WITHOUT ripping all their ideas from a pre determined successful formula. The WoW lead devs were all EQ players and it shows because WoW is, simply, a retarded baby version of EQ with a fourth of the features.
I didnt play EQ and played WOW till lvl 15 i think, on a free trial so i cant comment about the ripping thing but if thats true wouldnt it be the 10m players who are retarded for playing a inferior version of a game which has "fourth of the features".
And insanely successful is having 10m players, which other company has that?
I need more vespene gas.
That's a pretty good quote that shows part of why Blizzard is what it is today.
Blizzard are reiterators. Not cloners. WOW borrowed a lot from a lot of games - both single player games and other MMOs such as Asheron's Call 2 and Anarchy Online. However, WOW was still its own thing, it was an amalgam of a variety of gaming experiences. So it managed to be similar to all sorts of other games while having a personality of its own, which was thanks in large part to Blizzard's relentless focus on refining gameplay tradition and fluid responsive toon control. Thus they ended up with a game that felt familiar and "instantly usable", easy to get in and fun to play, not to mention polished.
I hope this post was a joke since, you know, WoW came out roughly 3 years before Warhammer.
It doesn't matter who copied what or who copied who. The only thing that matters, in a company's perspective, is the number of subscribers. The entire purpose of a company is to make money. Either World of Warcraft duped more people than every other MMO combined, or they created something that almost everyone can enjoy.
The massive arguing from both sides is stupid when it is clear that Blizzard has obviously done something impressive if they can capture such a vast majority of the market share. Did McDonald's create the hamburger? No. Do millions of people eat there each year? Yes. Why don't any of you rag on them for copying someone else's idea?
I'm not sure if this was mentioned but, Warcraft was originally slated to be a Warhammer Fantasy Battle -based RTS. The deal fell through with Games Workshop and they [Blizzard] kept all of the designs as their own.
For instance, before GW, Orcs looked like humanoid pigs or warped elves.
Me personally? I couldn't care less who copies what. I just find the WoW fanboys constant "WoW-clone" shit to be painfully ironic.
Despite getting burned out on WoW every so often, I really enjoy the game and I'm really enjoying Allods. I say if you're going to take from games, take what works and add to it. Only a fool ignores success. We're all suckling on Tolkien's teat anyway.
I agree I've been around MMOs and online gaming since the dawn of time and I've never seen anything worse than the community of these forums. Forming an opinion as if it were fact and insulting people along the way is how it has always worked around here regardless of what game was popular. This is the wrong place to go about intelligent discussion with factual based information. Always has been.
They did what others did and did it better. You can deny it all you want, but the truth is in the numbers.
Sigh...the usual. Unbelievably delusional fan base. Baaaah! Baaaah!
I hope this post was a joke since, you know, WoW came out roughly 3 years before Warhammer.
In which WoW copied from 25 years worth of Warhammer board game lore.
I hereby promise to NOT copy WoW.
LMAO... fine with me.
Ken
www.ActionMMORPG.com
One man, a small pile of money, and the screwball idea of a DIY Indie MMORPG? Yep, that's him. ~sigh~
The only thing worth copying from this 4 year old outdated game with the worst graphics in the industry is their marketing tactics.
Those were all a different genre, and EQ was one of the original MMORPG's to release. Not to mention Sony was the first to bring in 3d MMORPG gameplay, first person ability, amongst other firsts. Blizzard not only copies everything from past MMO's, but even current ones! What original pieces have they brought to the genre? I can't think of any? If you have any, I'd love to hear them.
And for the record, I don't hate WoW. I played it for 2 years until TBC and it got too watered down for my taste, as well as the crap community festering over. I'm just tired of the masses thinking Blizzard craps roses. WAKE UP!
I hope this post was a joke since, you know, WoW came out roughly 3 years before Warhammer.
In which WoW copied from 25 years worth of Warhammer board game lore.
Right... because Warhammer was the creator of all fantasy lore too. they didnt take like 90% of it from stories/ideas/lore that have been around for decades and centuries before it. How dare Blizzard make a fantasy MMO using the same fantasy things that Warhammer "invented"
Darkfall hasnt copied a thing from wow and its 10x better.
I hope this post was a joke since, you know, WoW came out roughly 3 years before Warhammer.
In which WoW copied from 25 years worth of Warhammer board game lore.
Right... because Warhammer was the creator of all fantasy lore too. they didnt take like 90% of it from stories/ideas/lore that have been around for decades and centuries before it. How dare Blizzard make a fantasy MMO using the same fantasy things that Warhammer "invented"
Well similarity in style is plain to see. And since Warhammer came first in concept then it's pretty easy to see how Warcraft was patterned after the Warhammer lore and world.
I hope this post was a joke since, you know, WoW came out roughly 3 years before Warhammer.
In which WoW copied from 25 years worth of Warhammer board game lore.
Right... because Warhammer was the creator of all fantasy lore too. they didnt take like 90% of it from stories/ideas/lore that have been around for decades and centuries before it. How dare Blizzard make a fantasy MMO using the same fantasy things that Warhammer "invented"
I am sure that may be the case, I was simply pointing out to the above poster the fact that Warhammer has been around, in one form or another, WELL before the almighty WoW. Not to mention Blizzard nearly mirrored Warhammer lore completely. Not simply took a few ideas here and there from it.
A huge part of why wow is widely loved is because how simplistic it feels. For example you get into the game and the UI is very simple and easy to understand, players love this. After a while time flies by while playing wow till this day it has been the only game that could keep me on for endless hours while losing track of time. Blizzard was just spot on when they wanted to give players what they wanted.
Forgive me if I repeat anything that has been previously stated. This has become quite a large thread.
Honestly, as a game designer in general, it is not at all a bad idea to consider what made other games successful and to incorporate similar concepts (or attempt to improve them, especially in technical aspects such as game mechanics) in their own creations. I do agree that games should not become carbon-copies of one another, but a company that chooses to learn from the successes and mistakes of others is not something to be complain about. This happens everywhere, all the time.
Entirely new concepts are hard (but not impossible) to come by when so many games have been created in the past. However, I agree with Anubisan's statement that Blizzard is actually giving constructive advice. The game has been out long enough that it has nearly perfected its style, and competitors need to stop creating wannabes of the game and come up with some fresh ideas.
All in all, the focus should not be on what game created a certain concept and what game used it second and is therefore unworthy. The gaming industry, like every other industry in the world, is full of companies fending for themselves in a 'survival of the fittest.' They must morph into what their consumers want, and it is mainly through the successes and failures of their competitors that this is observed. However, to those who claim to be creating the 'next World of Warcraft' -- complete with the same game mechanics, interface, and art style -- it would obviously be a better strategy to create something previously unseen. There is more than one way to create a successful game.
Can't help but wonder if this has any connection with Alganon, which just released... like 3 days ago.
Ken
www.ActionMMORPG.com
One man, a small pile of money, and the screwball idea of a DIY Indie MMORPG? Yep, that's him. ~sigh~