I can't believe the ideology discussion on "Best" Martial Arts is still going on. There is no "Best" since they all have their strengths and weaknesses. You just have fighters who are masters of their Martial Art but it shouldn't allow them to represent the strength of their martial art. Being undefeated may say something about the fighter but in all it shouldn't represent the Martial Art. We are all human, we make mistakes and are definitely not perfect. Thus we cannot live up to be a perfect example of a Martial Art. Just shadows of what it entails. Personally I like the ideologies of Tai Chi, Bagua Zhang, Krav Maga, Drunken Style/Monkey(if it counts~), and the deadly Fist of The North Star...*sarcasm* Yi Quan and Jeet Kune Do are also interesting(also near-polar) concepts/ideas/studys, but this isn't the thread for that. lol~ As for the topic at hand. Your supposed to be discussing the game (of which there is barely any information except the teaser), not the company. That usually leads to misconceptions about the product. Flame elsewhere.
The dude has a point though. If you were to learn three martial arts to save your life, it most definitely wouldn't be the ones you listed above.
It's not the kung fu/karate/tae kwan do part that burns my buns. It's the 3 years to make one level part. Most likely this will be another ncplay hardcore pvp game meaning lots of noob camps with some large guilds doing end game stuff.
It's not the kung fu/karate/tae kwan do part that burns my buns. It's the 3 years to make one level part. Most likely this will be another ncplay hardcore pvp game meaning lots of noob camps with some large guilds doing end game stuff.
There's nothing wrong with that. It's not like B&S are the only games coming out, Mabinogi Heroes (which is a lot better imo), c9 and Tera will compete so they better put out a fantastic product.
I can't believe the ideology discussion on "Best" Martial Arts is still going on. There is no "Best" since they all have their strengths and weaknesses. You just have fighters who are masters of their Martial Art but it shouldn't allow them to represent the strength of their martial art. Being undefeated may say something about the fighter but in all it shouldn't represent the Martial Art. We are all human, we make mistakes and are definitely not perfect. Thus we cannot live up to be a perfect example of a Martial Art. Just shadows of what it entails. Personally I like the ideologies of Tai Chi, Bagua Zhang, Krav Maga, Drunken Style/Monkey(if it counts~), and the deadly Fist of The North Star...*sarcasm* Yi Quan and Jeet Kune Do are also interesting(also near-polar) concepts/ideas/studys, but this isn't the thread for that. lol~ As for the topic at hand. Your supposed to be discussing the game (of which there is barely any information except the teaser), not the company. That usually leads to misconceptions about the product. Flame elsewhere.
The dude has a point though. If you were to learn three martial arts to save your life, it most definitely wouldn't be the ones you listed above.
Missed a word. *cough* Ideologies *cough* and I would learn 1 or 2 of the ones mentioned above if it would save my life lol. Alot of them don't get enough credit. If I were to learn 3 to save my life...I don't think I could decide. Probably, Tai Chi for the practice of balance, deflection, and exertion of full body force although i'm not sure which branch I would pick... Krav Maga for its simplicity and bare bones to build upon and Muay Thai(not mentioned above) for variety of attacks, use of specific parts, and the combinations achieved with the other two mentioned above would be really nice.
Can't pick JKD or YQ because they are more of an ideology/study than a martial art. :P But they would be interesting to have them practiced in unison.
I'm guessing you would pick Muai Thai, Jui Jitsu, and the third hinges on Karate, Wrestling(if it counts), or Tae-Kwon-Do. Mainly offensive studies/styles. :P
I agree, enough with the kung fu! Westernised MMO gamers do not like Kung Fu! (Well I don't anyway lol).
Chuck Norris would disagree.
Ummm, chuck is suppose to do Karate.
On a real talk, the best fighting style is jiu jetsu. Why? Because jiu jetsu always bring the fight to the ground so kung fu masters, karate and all taht cant even have a good reaction. Thats why UFC is the best show to watch real fight.
Kung fu, karate are made for movies only. You would never be able to win counting on kung fu in a streetfight if someone is bigger then you because if he is smart, he will bring the fight to the ground and choke you up or break your arms.
Well Lyoto Machida uses a type of Karate and hes 16-0 in his MMA record. While Jujitsu is a good fighting style it still comes down to the over all fighter. I don't matter how good you are at jujitsu if you can't get the fight to the ground you skills will be no good.
But to be on topic, what is level grind? Is it a game that takes forever to level? To me I enjoy games that take a while to level as long as there is enough content to support it, or if its grouping involved.
I just said taht the best fighting style was jiu jitsu. You still need training to make it be unbeatable for yourself. I also said that the best hand to hand fighting style overall is using grapple. You cant just strike and expect to win vs someone who will surely use grapple or bring the fight to the ground. A guy tat do any style of grapple combined with a great karate can beat any jiu jitsu users because the karate guy will surely be able to defend him self to the ground or counter the jiu jitsu grapple with his own grapple tecnic to cancel his grab so the karate guy can still have time to trow some strikes while standing. Im just saying that most of the ppl who focus on karate or kung lose vs the pro grapplers because they them self lack of grapple tecnic. Karate is suppose to be a self defense fighting style that you use for a quick defense. Not to focus on a straight one on one that could last more then 3 minutes. Same for kung fu.
Take snake from metal gear for exemple. Yeah, i talk about that SQC. Even if he dont have any weapon, he is still pretend to old a knife and a gun and all he does is submissions and make you drop to the ground really quick. Even in the art of beating someone the quickest possible, grapple tecnic are way better then striking tecnic.
Yeah I guess your right about grappling being the most effective, but Ive seen a few pretty wicked strikers ending a fight in a flash with a flying knee to the head. like this www.break.com/usercontent/2007/9/How-not-to-get-hit-in-the-head-in-MMA-363629.html Dude went in for a grapple and caught a flying knee. Sometimes things just happen and you if you cant react fast enough that BJJ you might know is no good when you get knocked out in one hit. Granted its probably mostly luck when this kind of think happening compared to someone who is really skilled in BJJ that can manipulate their opponent into doing what they want.
But I really like BJJ it is probably my favorite fighting style. I think its a very versatile like how you can go with blood chokes, air chokes which can kill if held long enough not to mention breaking of arms or legs or even the neck, then there is the various ground and pound techniques. I really enjoyed those videos of Royce that you posted I have not seen those.
Q37 about the economy worries me lol. That and some of the "vague" answers. I.E. the implementation of gear.
Q27 about attack angle made me happy though. Q8 and Q20 made me chuckle.
The implementation of story and weather to affect quests worry me. It can be great when done correctly but it can horribly backfire if it isn't seamless. We can only wait
I agree, enough with the kung fu! Westernised MMO gamers do not like Kung Fu! (Well I don't anyway lol).
Chuck Norris would disagree.
Ummm, chuck is suppose to do Karate.
On a real talk, the best fighting style is jiu jetsu. Why? Because jiu jetsu always bring the fight to the ground so kung fu masters, karate and all taht cant even have a good reaction. Thats why UFC is the best show to watch real fight.
Kung fu, karate are made for movies only. You would never be able to win counting on kung fu in a streetfight if someone is bigger then you because if he is smart, he will bring the fight to the ground and choke you up or break your arms.
Well Lyoto Machida uses a type of Karate and hes 16-0 in his MMA record. While Jujitsu is a good fighting style it still comes down to the over all fighter. I don't matter how good you are at jujitsu if you can't get the fight to the ground you skills will be no good.
But to be on topic, what is level grind? Is it a game that takes forever to level? To me I enjoy games that take a while to level as long as there is enough content to support it, or if its grouping involved.
I just said taht the best fighting style was jiu jitsu. You still need training to make it be unbeatable for yourself. I also said that the best hand to hand fighting style overall is using grapple. You cant just strike and expect to win vs someone who will surely use grapple or bring the fight to the ground. A guy tat do any style of grapple combined with a great karate can beat any jiu jitsu users because the karate guy will surely be able to defend him self to the ground or counter the jiu jitsu grapple with his own grapple tecnic to cancel his grab so the karate guy can still have time to trow some strikes while standing. Im just saying that most of the ppl who focus on karate or kung lose vs the pro grapplers because they them self lack of grapple tecnic. Karate is suppose to be a self defense fighting style that you use for a quick defense. Not to focus on a straight one on one that could last more then 3 minutes. Same for kung fu.
Take snake from metal gear for exemple. Yeah, i talk about that SQC. Even if he dont have any weapon, he is still pretend to old a knife and a gun and all he does is submissions and make you drop to the ground really quick. Even in the art of beating someone the quickest possible, grapple tecnic are way better then striking tecnic.
Yeah I guess your right about grappling being the most effective, but Ive seen a few pretty wicked strikers ending a fight in a flash with a flying knee to the head. like this www.break.com/usercontent/2007/9/How-not-to-get-hit-in-the-head-in-MMA-363629.html Dude went in for a grapple and caught a flying knee. Sometimes things just happen and you if you cant react fast enough that BJJ you might know is no good when you get knocked out in one hit. Granted its probably mostly luck when this kind of think happening compared to someone who is really skilled in BJJ that can manipulate their opponent into doing what they want.
But I really like BJJ it is probably my favorite fighting style. I think its a very versatile like how you can go with blood chokes, air chokes which can kill if held long enough not to mention breaking of arms or legs or even the neck, then there is the various ground and pound techniques. I really enjoyed those videos of Royce that you posted I have not seen those.
Brutal video. I love it. Lol
watch the royce vs sakuraba (japanese catch-wrestler/aka the gracie hunter) video. A bjj guy that can't take down a wrestler is pretty much useless lol.
hey! We all have different tastes, and besides if it did so because it now the people plays a lot of this model of moorpg! : D; besides as the saying goes "do not decide upon a book for his title page" in this case XD "not decide upon a game for his trailer" hehehe!
I find it amusing how people can cry and cry that they don't want WoW clones, but then, they turn around and expect WoW features in every game and reject any alternative idea.
You don't want grinds and expect quests to level you quickly with 1-shot content. Thats early game WoW in a nutshell.
You don't want a huge level curve, and you expect endless content in the end game for you to run for gear/achievements and whatever little widgets in game. That sounds like WoW end game in a nutshell. Otherwise your bored because you hit endgame and there is nothing to do once you expended the content.
Designing a game for you people is impossible. YOU don't even know what you want and expect someone else to provide this perfect game for you.
I want to see a RO or L2 clone in this. High level curves is fine aslong as the underlying gameplay is fun. If the grind is like smacking a nail into a wooden board for 1000 hours, then no i'm not going to like it. If the grind is more involved with risk and rewards and variable gameplay and organization. Then i don't mind grinding for hours and hours.
This game visually speaking is stunning, as a graphic designer I am glad MMO's are getting so detailed. As for the grinding, I watched the whole video at the website. It seems this game will have some type of story line, as in a story line where you don't just go up to an NPC and read text. It looks as if they actually communicate on a story basis, i.e Infinite Undiscovery for 360. I for one am looking forward to this game, the PVP looks very unique
This game looks like it has an actual story, with cutscenes and everything. I wouldn't even care if it was a grind, the combat looks awesome.
Though that's exactly what I said about 2moons and ended up quitting that. :P
Anyways, I don't think we should pass judgement on it yet until more info is released. You can't simply call a game bad based on one trailer and the companies previously made games.
Lineage, L2 and Aion did very well in their own right. I still play L2 off and on to this day. Aion however... it looks good and I enjoyed the combat but they pretty much intentionally made it a grinder after what? 25?
I'm sorry. I cannot sit here and read this mindless drivel any more. Do you know why your karate friend can be taken to the ground? Because of one of two reasons. Either he didn't actually want to hurt you, or he doesn't know how to fight. If BJJ was the best martial art in the world, Royce Gracie and the Gracie clan would still be the top winners of UFC and every UFC would go to submission and not knockout. There are far too many cases of standing knockouts to dismiss striking in even a regulated sport like the Ultimate Fighting Championship. It isn't the art that makes the fight, its the fighter who uses it. If going to the ground was the only way to fight, no one would start a fight standing up. Every time there was an argument, people would kneel down and wrestle. Jujitsu is a very good martial art and the practitioners who perfect the art are masterful, but it is not the be-all, end-all. As someone goes to shoot for your legs, what's to stop you from stepping at a forty-five degree angle and bringing an elbow down upon the base of the skull? What's to stop you from using their forward momentum to execute a shuto against the clavicle, thereby breaking it with the side effect of knocking the person out? What's to stop a stand-up practitioner from jabbing a quick punch to the nose, causing the eyes to water which limits visibility, kicking to the inside of the knee, and then as the person collapses, slipping around and locking in a box choke? Nothing. Nothing is stopping that. Stand up martial arts are just as good and effective as ground martial arts. Its the person using the art that matters. The arts aren't made for movies, some of them have been around for centuries. I currently study Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. No, not the hokey crap on youtube, but the effect combat art as taught by Colonel Robert Thomas, a shihan who was in special forces. You go to the ground in a real combat situation and you end up taking a boot party. You want to limit your ground exposure, especially if the numerical odds are not in your favor.
As Forrest Gump says, "That's all I have to say about that...".
Comments
The dude has a point though. If you were to learn three martial arts to save your life, it most definitely wouldn't be the ones you listed above.
It's not the kung fu/karate/tae kwan do part that burns my buns. It's the 3 years to make one level part. Most likely this will be another ncplay hardcore pvp game meaning lots of noob camps with some large guilds doing end game stuff.
There's nothing wrong with that. It's not like B&S are the only games coming out, Mabinogi Heroes (which is a lot better imo), c9 and Tera will compete so they better put out a fantastic product.
Here's some info on the game:
bnsfacts.wordpress.com/2008/08/03/this-is-game-interview-47-qa-part-1/
bnsfacts.wordpress.com/2008/08/04/this-is-game-interview-47-qa-part-2/
bnsfacts.wordpress.com/2008/08/06/more-qa/
The dude has a point though. If you were to learn three martial arts to save your life, it most definitely wouldn't be the ones you listed above.
Missed a word. *cough* Ideologies *cough* and I would learn 1 or 2 of the ones mentioned above if it would save my life lol. Alot of them don't get enough credit. If I were to learn 3 to save my life...I don't think I could decide. Probably, Tai Chi for the practice of balance, deflection, and exertion of full body force although i'm not sure which branch I would pick... Krav Maga for its simplicity and bare bones to build upon and Muay Thai(not mentioned above) for variety of attacks, use of specific parts, and the combinations achieved with the other two mentioned above would be really nice.
Can't pick JKD or YQ because they are more of an ideology/study than a martial art. :P But they would be interesting to have them practiced in unison.
I'm guessing you would pick Muai Thai, Jui Jitsu, and the third hinges on Karate, Wrestling(if it counts), or Tae-Kwon-Do. Mainly offensive studies/styles. :P
Chuck Norris would disagree.
Ummm, chuck is suppose to do Karate.
On a real talk, the best fighting style is jiu jetsu. Why? Because jiu jetsu always bring the fight to the ground so kung fu masters, karate and all taht cant even have a good reaction. Thats why UFC is the best show to watch real fight.
Kung fu, karate are made for movies only. You would never be able to win counting on kung fu in a streetfight if someone is bigger then you because if he is smart, he will bring the fight to the ground and choke you up or break your arms.
Well Lyoto Machida uses a type of Karate and hes 16-0 in his MMA record. While Jujitsu is a good fighting style it still comes down to the over all fighter. I don't matter how good you are at jujitsu if you can't get the fight to the ground you skills will be no good.
But to be on topic, what is level grind? Is it a game that takes forever to level? To me I enjoy games that take a while to level as long as there is enough content to support it, or if its grouping involved.
I just said taht the best fighting style was jiu jitsu. You still need training to make it be unbeatable for yourself. I also said that the best hand to hand fighting style overall is using grapple. You cant just strike and expect to win vs someone who will surely use grapple or bring the fight to the ground. A guy tat do any style of grapple combined with a great karate can beat any jiu jitsu users because the karate guy will surely be able to defend him self to the ground or counter the jiu jitsu grapple with his own grapple tecnic to cancel his grab so the karate guy can still have time to trow some strikes while standing. Im just saying that most of the ppl who focus on karate or kung lose vs the pro grapplers because they them self lack of grapple tecnic. Karate is suppose to be a self defense fighting style that you use for a quick defense. Not to focus on a straight one on one that could last more then 3 minutes. Same for kung fu.
Take snake from metal gear for exemple. Yeah, i talk about that SQC. Even if he dont have any weapon, he is still pretend to old a knife and a gun and all he does is submissions and make you drop to the ground really quick. Even in the art of beating someone the quickest possible, grapple tecnic are way better then striking tecnic.
Yeah I guess your right about grappling being the most effective, but Ive seen a few pretty wicked strikers ending a fight in a flash with a flying knee to the head. like this www.break.com/usercontent/2007/9/How-not-to-get-hit-in-the-head-in-MMA-363629.html Dude went in for a grapple and caught a flying knee. Sometimes things just happen and you if you cant react fast enough that BJJ you might know is no good when you get knocked out in one hit. Granted its probably mostly luck when this kind of think happening compared to someone who is really skilled in BJJ that can manipulate their opponent into doing what they want.
But I really like BJJ it is probably my favorite fighting style. I think its a very versatile like how you can go with blood chokes, air chokes which can kill if held long enough not to mention breaking of arms or legs or even the neck, then there is the various ground and pound techniques. I really enjoyed those videos of Royce that you posted I have not seen those.
Good Find, Good Find.
Q37 about the economy worries me lol. That and some of the "vague" answers. I.E. the implementation of gear.
Q27 about attack angle made me happy though. Q8 and Q20 made me chuckle.
The implementation of story and weather to affect quests worry me. It can be great when done correctly but it can horribly backfire if it isn't seamless. We can only wait
Um yea..... there goes your credibility. Maybe a little less talk about what you think you know could help a ton.
Chuck Norris would disagree.
Ummm, chuck is suppose to do Karate.
On a real talk, the best fighting style is jiu jetsu. Why? Because jiu jetsu always bring the fight to the ground so kung fu masters, karate and all taht cant even have a good reaction. Thats why UFC is the best show to watch real fight.
Kung fu, karate are made for movies only. You would never be able to win counting on kung fu in a streetfight if someone is bigger then you because if he is smart, he will bring the fight to the ground and choke you up or break your arms.
Well Lyoto Machida uses a type of Karate and hes 16-0 in his MMA record. While Jujitsu is a good fighting style it still comes down to the over all fighter. I don't matter how good you are at jujitsu if you can't get the fight to the ground you skills will be no good.
But to be on topic, what is level grind? Is it a game that takes forever to level? To me I enjoy games that take a while to level as long as there is enough content to support it, or if its grouping involved.
I just said taht the best fighting style was jiu jitsu. You still need training to make it be unbeatable for yourself. I also said that the best hand to hand fighting style overall is using grapple. You cant just strike and expect to win vs someone who will surely use grapple or bring the fight to the ground. A guy tat do any style of grapple combined with a great karate can beat any jiu jitsu users because the karate guy will surely be able to defend him self to the ground or counter the jiu jitsu grapple with his own grapple tecnic to cancel his grab so the karate guy can still have time to trow some strikes while standing. Im just saying that most of the ppl who focus on karate or kung lose vs the pro grapplers because they them self lack of grapple tecnic. Karate is suppose to be a self defense fighting style that you use for a quick defense. Not to focus on a straight one on one that could last more then 3 minutes. Same for kung fu.
Take snake from metal gear for exemple. Yeah, i talk about that SQC. Even if he dont have any weapon, he is still pretend to old a knife and a gun and all he does is submissions and make you drop to the ground really quick. Even in the art of beating someone the quickest possible, grapple tecnic are way better then striking tecnic.
Yeah I guess your right about grappling being the most effective, but Ive seen a few pretty wicked strikers ending a fight in a flash with a flying knee to the head. like this www.break.com/usercontent/2007/9/How-not-to-get-hit-in-the-head-in-MMA-363629.html Dude went in for a grapple and caught a flying knee. Sometimes things just happen and you if you cant react fast enough that BJJ you might know is no good when you get knocked out in one hit. Granted its probably mostly luck when this kind of think happening compared to someone who is really skilled in BJJ that can manipulate their opponent into doing what they want.
But I really like BJJ it is probably my favorite fighting style. I think its a very versatile like how you can go with blood chokes, air chokes which can kill if held long enough not to mention breaking of arms or legs or even the neck, then there is the various ground and pound techniques. I really enjoyed those videos of Royce that you posted I have not seen those.
Brutal video. I love it. Lol
watch the royce vs sakuraba (japanese catch-wrestler/aka the gracie hunter) video. A bjj guy that can't take down a wrestler is pretty much useless lol.
hey! We all have different tastes, and besides if it did so because it now the people plays a lot of this model of moorpg! : D; besides as the saying goes "do not decide upon a book for his title page" in this case XD "not decide upon a game for his trailer" hehehe!
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@ Krn_Assassin
www.youtube.com/watch
ROFL that's hilarious. Good post.
I find it amusing how people can cry and cry that they don't want WoW clones, but then, they turn around and expect WoW features in every game and reject any alternative idea.
You don't want grinds and expect quests to level you quickly with 1-shot content. Thats early game WoW in a nutshell.
You don't want a huge level curve, and you expect endless content in the end game for you to run for gear/achievements and whatever little widgets in game. That sounds like WoW end game in a nutshell. Otherwise your bored because you hit endgame and there is nothing to do once you expended the content.
Designing a game for you people is impossible. YOU don't even know what you want and expect someone else to provide this perfect game for you.
I want to see a RO or L2 clone in this. High level curves is fine aslong as the underlying gameplay is fun. If the grind is like smacking a nail into a wooden board for 1000 hours, then no i'm not going to like it. If the grind is more involved with risk and rewards and variable gameplay and organization. Then i don't mind grinding for hours and hours.
Well this is their attempt at doing something innovative so no, lets not let this be a clone of neither.
This game visually speaking is stunning, as a graphic designer I am glad MMO's are getting so detailed. As for the grinding, I watched the whole video at the website. It seems this game will have some type of story line, as in a story line where you don't just go up to an NPC and read text. It looks as if they actually communicate on a story basis, i.e Infinite Undiscovery for 360. I for one am looking forward to this game, the PVP looks very unique
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Knowing NcSoft, probably, but also expect some type of private server to come out like Aion's or L2s
This game looks like it has an actual story, with cutscenes and everything. I wouldn't even care if it was a grind, the combat looks awesome.
Though that's exactly what I said about 2moons and ended up quitting that. :P
Anyways, I don't think we should pass judgement on it yet until more info is released. You can't simply call a game bad based on one trailer and the companies previously made games.
Lineage, L2 and Aion did very well in their own right. I still play L2 off and on to this day. Aion however... it looks good and I enjoyed the combat but they pretty much intentionally made it a grinder after what? 25?
I'm sorry. I cannot sit here and read this mindless drivel any more. Do you know why your karate friend can be taken to the ground? Because of one of two reasons. Either he didn't actually want to hurt you, or he doesn't know how to fight. If BJJ was the best martial art in the world, Royce Gracie and the Gracie clan would still be the top winners of UFC and every UFC would go to submission and not knockout. There are far too many cases of standing knockouts to dismiss striking in even a regulated sport like the Ultimate Fighting Championship. It isn't the art that makes the fight, its the fighter who uses it. If going to the ground was the only way to fight, no one would start a fight standing up. Every time there was an argument, people would kneel down and wrestle. Jujitsu is a very good martial art and the practitioners who perfect the art are masterful, but it is not the be-all, end-all. As someone goes to shoot for your legs, what's to stop you from stepping at a forty-five degree angle and bringing an elbow down upon the base of the skull? What's to stop you from using their forward momentum to execute a shuto against the clavicle, thereby breaking it with the side effect of knocking the person out? What's to stop a stand-up practitioner from jabbing a quick punch to the nose, causing the eyes to water which limits visibility, kicking to the inside of the knee, and then as the person collapses, slipping around and locking in a box choke? Nothing. Nothing is stopping that. Stand up martial arts are just as good and effective as ground martial arts. Its the person using the art that matters. The arts aren't made for movies, some of them have been around for centuries. I currently study Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. No, not the hokey crap on youtube, but the effect combat art as taught by Colonel Robert Thomas, a shihan who was in special forces. You go to the ground in a real combat situation and you end up taking a boot party. You want to limit your ground exposure, especially if the numerical odds are not in your favor.
As Forrest Gump says, "That's all I have to say about that...".
Edited for typos.